1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:03,119 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 3: And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 3: a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 3: two working parents who love our careers and our families. 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: out long term career goals. We want you to get 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: the most out of life. 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in early mid October of twenty 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: twenty three. We're going to be talking about the math 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: of childcare hours, which came about because we got a 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: letter from a listener who wanted to know about how 17 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: much time her children spend in childcare versus spending with 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: her and our general thoughts on that. But before we 19 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: get to that, we have a little confer fashion to make, 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: which is perhaps we will be more polished than usual 21 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: in this episode because we were actually recording it for 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: the second time. Sarah, could you speak to what happened? 23 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: Well, I don't exactly know what happened. But the truth 24 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 3: is we are much more prone to recording mishaps when 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 3: we are in person, because when we are recording virtually, 26 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,279 Speaker 3: if there's some kind of sound problem, the other person 27 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 3: is not going to be able to hear, like we're 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 3: not able to hear each other, and so there's a 29 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: tip off. However, if we are recording in front of 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: a laptop, there's no indication that the laptop cannot hear us. 31 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 3: So I think some sort of button was pushed or 32 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: not pushed, and I ended up with a blank file, 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: which I even submitted to our sound processing team in. 34 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: Case they worked magic or something. It's not really blank. 35 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: Well, no, I didn't realize it was blank because I 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: just see the link. I don't always like test it. 37 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: You know. 38 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: My process is I thought quite fool proof, but obviously not. 39 00:01:53,880 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: So they emailed me back, Uh. 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: You're just gonna be thirty minutes of day and this podcast. 41 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what if I was like, just run it anyway, 42 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: just run it anyway, really bored? So anyway, Laura and 43 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: I plan ahead enough so that this kind of thing 44 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: is not a true catastrophe, so we have the time 45 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: to do it again and it will be even better. 46 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, although it wouldn't be a true catastrophe anyway, because 47 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: this is a podcast, which is you know, we're not 48 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: saving anyone's life here. 49 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: It would be all right. 50 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, we had recorded in person in Boston in 51 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 2: late September, and the Mailbag episode that you all were 52 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: treated to last week was one of the live episodes. 53 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: This was going to be another because we didn't have 54 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: the sound file we are now re recording, but should 55 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: be great. So yeah, it's funny because, like so much work, 56 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: it's like half virtual half face to face now, and 57 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: sometimes there's this idea that everything is smoother when it's 58 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: done face to face, and I think for us that 59 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: is not actually the case because our processes were developed virtually. Obviously, 60 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: it's so much fun to be face to face for 61 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: other things, like I think we brainstorm better face to face. 62 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: Definitely, We're able to come up with like idealists, much 63 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: quicker when we're in the same room, and kind of 64 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 3: more relaxed and away from the hustle and bustle of 65 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 3: everyday life as well. 66 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So, I mean sort of segueing into the 67 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: topic of childcare and how much kids are with their 68 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 2: various forms of childcare for us to be in Boston 69 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: together when we were recording. This required some reasonable logistics 70 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: on both of our part. In my case, it coincided 71 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: with some days that our nanny had requested off a 72 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: couple months before to so we had backup care that 73 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: my husband was then also dealing with because we have 74 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: a lot of activities that people have to drive to, 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: so he didn't have to do anything between nine and 76 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: six thirty. But on the other hand, a lot of 77 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: our lives happened outside of nine to six thirty. So 78 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: getting kids to the school in the morning we have 79 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: to do a different process when there's only one driver. 80 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: The evening activities we. 81 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: Have to shuttle around what people could do based on 82 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: only having one driver. I got to say, Sam was 83 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: not too sad about missing one particular one, but that's okay, 84 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: Maybe that's something to keep in mind for the future. 85 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: But he has to do something physical. We all have 86 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: to do some sort of support or athletic activity. But yeah, 87 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: so it was a lot of logistics to get there. 88 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 2: I mean, I think yours were a little bit. Well, 89 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: partly I was gone for longer because I had business 90 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: before this trip somewhere else. That I had to do, 91 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: but you had some logistics not quite as many I 92 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: think that you had to deal with ahead of it. 93 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: For me, the biggest thing is I can't add something 94 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 3: like this to the calendar with like a month of 95 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: I mean I could, but it would be very difficult 96 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: just because the way our clinic schedules are designed, and 97 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: so I think we planned this way back, like in 98 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: the spring or even before that, as I was kind 99 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: of crafting the twenty twenty three schedule and asking for 100 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: my various days off, so that really needed to be 101 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: blocked out in advance. Our nanny generally is open to 102 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,559 Speaker 3: working later because she starts later most days, so that's 103 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 3: not too much of an issue. But then my husband 104 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: then needs to drive the kids to school, which he 105 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: usually only does like once a week, so I kind 106 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 3: of had to give him a heads up about that. 107 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: And then there was one like slightly complicated driving issue 108 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 3: where a dance class was starting at the same time 109 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 3: soccer ended, and it was at a time that I 110 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: didn't think Josh would be done with surgeries. So I 111 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 3: actually went ahead and proactively contacted a mom from the 112 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 3: soccer team to see if she could drive Cameron home 113 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: if no one was able to make it. So I 114 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: did try to kind of make the runway fairly clear. 115 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 3: And the truth is I do travel solo more than 116 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: he does, so I want to make it not be 117 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: too stressful for him. 118 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to say, I mean, I'll be real 119 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: with people here. I was a little frustrated that I 120 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: created this entire, like two page document of where everyone 121 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 2: needed to be at various points. 122 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, what, this doesn't really. 123 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: Feel fair that I need to create this because I 124 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: can tell you my husband traveled the week before where 125 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: I was gone, and then he traveled the week after 126 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: I was gone, and there were no multipage documents explaining 127 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: where everyone needed to be at various points. 128 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: It's just like, you. 129 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: Know, so this is something we are working on because 130 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: I don't like to be in a situation where it 131 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: feels like it's the bar for me to go is 132 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: a lot higher. I mean, especially since I do have 133 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: to go, like I'm traveling to a speech next week 134 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: when we're recording this. It just like it can't work 135 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: like that. So that's you know, sometimes we wind up 136 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: taking on a bit more of the logistics than we 137 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: probably should. 138 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: And that document definitely prevented you from getting texts and 139 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: questions while you were gone, right. 140 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: If only Sarah. No, it was not too bad. 141 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: There were not that many questions and texts, and that's 142 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 2: partly because it was so spelled out. There were copies 143 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: printed up, so the older children had access to them 144 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: as well, so there were multiple people to consult and 145 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: to remind everyone of who needed to be where when, 146 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: so there weren't as many texts as there may have 147 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: been in the past. I have gotten texts like from 148 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: children being like, come pick me up at school, and 149 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: it's I'm like, hello, kid, I'm in California. 150 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: But did you miss that? 151 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if I know, we're all in our 152 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: own little world, but no, I cannot come pick you 153 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: up at school at three o'clock. 154 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: So I decided to do a little deep dive into 155 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: how much I was traveling this year lest any thoughts 156 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: of I don't know, guilt or whatever come up, which 157 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: they really didn't actually, but I just kind of thought 158 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: it would be useful to quantify, and so I came 159 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: up with about sixteen or seventeen days of solo travel, 160 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: which was from two podcasts recording trips. One work conference, 161 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: best laid plans live, so all of those are work related. 162 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: And then one three or four day trip to see 163 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: my college friends, so one totally recreational trip, and then 164 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: three trips usually with just Josh, so I think they're 165 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: going to only amount to like seven or eight days 166 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 3: because they're all really short. And then one trip with 167 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: just Annabelle that I took earlier in the year, So 168 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: I think the total was about four point six percent 169 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: of the days traveling by myself, and then an additional 170 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: two point one percent traveling with my husband. So I mean, yes, 171 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: that sounds like a lot when I listed out, but 172 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: those are not super high percentages, and so really thinking 173 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: about that, the value for me of having them on 174 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: the calendar was huge, and the loss and value of 175 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: my family for losing me for that four percent or 176 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: six percent time, I think is fairly negligible. So that 177 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 3: made me feel good. 178 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we see this sometimes with people share 179 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: their schedules with me. Who do have, you know, reasonably 180 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: intense work schedules, But still when you look at it, 181 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: it's not as many nights away from home as you 182 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: might imagine. You know, somebody who has gone like Monday 183 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,479 Speaker 2: to Thursday one week, and then like Wednesday to Thursday 184 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: the third week of the month. I mean they could 185 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 2: be gone four or five nights a month, but if 186 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: you like five nights times twelve, so sixty nights, like 187 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: you're still home more than three hundred of them nights 188 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: of the year. Right, Like we said, I'm home three 189 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: hundred nights a year. I say, wow, that sounds pretty good, right. 190 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 2: You know, it's just when you take it in the 191 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: broader context, it's often less than people think it is, 192 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: even if it appears very heavy at the moment. But anyway, 193 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 2: this leads us into our listener question that sparked this 194 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: episode on what we're calling the math of childcare hours, 195 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 2: because we did not actually want to call this episode 196 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: is daycare raising your kid, which would have gotten a 197 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: lot more clicks, but we do not wish to do that, 198 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: so anyway, listener says, longtime listener of best laid plans 199 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: and best of both worlds here, thank you for your. 200 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: Work on these. 201 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: She says, I am optimizing my time management and wanted 202 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: to test my high thought pothesis that I spend a 203 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: lot of time with my kids, who one is two 204 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: and a half one is five months old. She thinks 205 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 2: that she needs additional childcare for a couple things she 206 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: wants to do. So, she says, she put her Laura 207 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: vandercamp hat on and tracked her time. She found that 208 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: the five month old spends thirty hours a week awake 209 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: at his day care or her daycare I don't know 210 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: the gender here versus twenty five hours and thirty minutes 211 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: awake at home. And the two and a half year 212 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: old spends thirty six hours per week awake at daycare 213 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: versus twenty nine awake at home. The initial hypothesis, thus 214 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 2: that the kids had more waking hours at home with 215 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: her was incorrect. She said they spend more waking hours 216 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: at daycare than at home. So cue the mom guilt, 217 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: and she says, questions for you guys, have you ever 218 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: tracked this for your kids? And do you mind sharing 219 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: the results? Second, is it bad that the kids spend 220 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: more waking hours at daycare? As her partner dramatically asked, 221 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: are the caregivers at daycare are kiddo's true family? Which, 222 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: by the way, sir, not a very helpful question to ask. 223 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: Just a little bit of advice here for you know, 224 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: I'm not a marriage counselor, but that was not a 225 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: good one. Next one, Am I a bad mom for 226 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: wanting to set up additional childcare around daycare to decrease 227 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 2: my childcare load, which would use my time with them further? 228 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: For the purposes of this episode. 229 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: We're viewing this as like she's asking, can she get 230 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: a sitter for two or three hours on Tuesday night 231 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: after daycare so she can join a pickleball league? All right, 232 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: that's the example we're gonna use, just so when we 233 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 2: keep talking about it, we were using the same thing. 234 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: And then does quality time equal quantity time? Am I 235 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: overthinking this? 236 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: What do we think? So, Sarah? 237 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 2: Why don't we take a stab at the beginning that 238 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: the actual math of kids being awake at daycare versus 239 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: awake at home. 240 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. I've never actually tracked this because we all know 241 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: how excellent I am at quantifying time. However, I can 242 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: assuredly say that there have been periods of my life 243 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: where my children spent more awake hours, either at daycare 244 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 3: or with our nanny than with me. I think one 245 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 3: example where it was pretty clear was when I was 246 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: finishing my fellowship, certainly during clinical months I worked pretty 247 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: much eight to five, and there was a Duke on 248 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 3: campus daycare that a lot of the attendings and residents 249 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: and employees used, and it opened really early, like six 250 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: or six thirty something like that, and I would drop 251 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: her off around probably seven, seven thirty and not get 252 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: to pick her up till I was done after five. 253 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: And she was really young, so she was sleeping a lot. 254 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 3: So the age actually matters because the sleep is going 255 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 3: to change as they get older. So without even doing 256 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: any fancy math, I'm pretty confident that during that period 257 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: of life, yeah, she spent more time there. I never 258 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: really was bothered by it because it just felt like 259 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 3: something that was necessary in order for life to go on, 260 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: for me to meet my career goals. And she was 261 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: happy and she was a baby and still bonded to me, 262 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: So I never did the math. 263 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Jasper was in daycare for the first few 264 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: years of his life, and I did look into this 265 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: at one point, and part of the problem was he 266 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: didn't really sleep that much, so you know, if i'd 267 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 2: pick him up at five thirty, he could be awake 268 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: till nine thirty easy. And so you know, if you 269 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 2: couple that with the time he was a week in 270 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: the morning, and then the weekend times. And then here 271 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: is the key thing. This listener is calculating these hours, 272 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: which by the way, are pretty close. I mean we're 273 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: talking like twenty nine versus thirty five or whatever. 274 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: It was. 275 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: Like, you know, it's not like there, it's not like 276 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: she's seeing them two hours and they're at daycare for sixty. 277 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: But that's a perfect week where she's at work five 278 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: days a week, which I can tell you from my 279 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: own experience of sending a child to daycare. You're not 280 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: there five days a week a lot of weeks, particularly 281 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: during the winter as kid gets six, So all you 282 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: have to do is every two weeks take one of 283 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: those days off because the kid is home with a 284 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: tummy bug or a slight fever or something like that, 285 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: and the math has completely switched. So I would just 286 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: throw that out there as something to consider in your 287 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: childcare hour math. But of course, you know, the math 288 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: itself is not the actual question I think they're asking here. 289 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: I mean, because what we're getting at is is it 290 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: bad that the kids spend more time at daycare? Or, 291 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: as her partner dramatically asks, are the caregivers at daycare 292 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: are kiddo's true family? 293 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: Well, let's answer I guess my first question. Let's answer 294 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: that after the break. Let's leave some suspense from that one. 295 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: Are the caregivers at daycare it is true family? Yeah, 296 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 3: we will be back with the answer after the break. Okay, 297 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: we are back, Laura. What do you think? 298 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? 299 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: Talking childcare hours in math? So, I mean the first 300 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: question for me, like, is your partner bothered by this? 301 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: Like is he switching his hours at work and taking 302 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: on a part time role instead because he's so concerned 303 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: that the caregivers at daycare are your kiddo's true family. 304 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: Has he decided, well, you know, I'm going to take 305 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: every Friday off because I want to spend more time 306 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: with them, Like I'm gonna you know, it looks like 307 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: if I push things, I could come into work at 308 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: nine point thirty instead of nine and you know, maybe 309 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: there'll be some career consequences. But like, it's so important 310 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: to me that the caregivers not be there with them 311 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: more hours than that, so I better do that. Like 312 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: is he doing that or is he just asking you 313 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: questions like this? Because if he's just asking questions he's 314 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: just being mean. 315 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: But maybe he is doing that. I mean, I'll give 316 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: him a little bit of credit, Like maybe in the 317 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: best case scenario, he asked that question equally to both 318 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: of them. But I think it's very useful to do 319 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: that thought experiment that we assume and truthfully, in many cases, 320 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 3: he was mostly asking to question her involvement in the 321 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: workplace and her need for childcare rather than their need 322 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: for it their need. 323 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: And if the point is he's asking this because he 324 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: wants her to cut back, then that is a very 325 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: different question of him asking this because he is going 326 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: to cut back, And so let's put that out there first. 327 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: But the question, are they your true family? No, they 328 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: are not. 329 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: They are family adjacent people who are helping you raise 330 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: awesome children. I think both Sarah and I have had 331 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: the experience that you know, no matter how many hours 332 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: our kids are spending with other people, which again, like 333 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: we're talking the twenty nine verse thirty five here, are 334 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: not very different. Adding in the sick days, it's probably 335 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: more with you. You still wind up being the kid's favorite, 336 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: and sometimes this can be suffocating when it feels like 337 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: nobody else can put your child to bed except you 338 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: because you are their absolute favorite. Nobody else can take 339 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: the kids to the bathroom, no one else can get 340 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: them dressed, because it's got to be you. But it 341 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: often is the case. So no, someone else is not 342 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: raising your kids, they are helping you do it well. 343 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: And it's interesting because this is referring to daycare and 344 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: yet like what about school. I guess we get that 345 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: in a later point, but there doesn't seem to be 346 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: a huge difference. In a daycare. You have a group 347 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 3: of people helping your child, They're probably doing different activity. 348 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: The caregivers may switch out, so there's probably not even 349 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: going to necessarily be the opportunity for a very long 350 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: term relationship to form. I mean, maybe they'll have the 351 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: same teacher for a couple of years, but it's not 352 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 3: going to be forever. If you do, you might argue, well, 353 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 3: what about a Nanny's that going to be like a 354 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 3: parental replacement? And I will just say, in my experience, 355 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: that has not been anything that has. It just hasn't happened. 356 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: It hasn't come close to happening. Ur nanny does have 357 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 3: some special relationships with at least some of my kids, 358 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 3: but that feels additional like an extra in their life 359 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 3: rather than any kind of subtraction from their relationship they 360 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 3: have with me or Josh. And honestly, I don't think 361 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: I can even think of a time they've expressed a 362 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 3: preference to spend time versus with her versus me. They 363 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 3: always want me to drive them if I'm there, or 364 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 3: like I don't know, help with homework or whatever it is. 365 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 3: And sometimes that can be a struggle if it's during 366 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 3: work hours and I'm trying to get something done. But 367 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: kids are not going to be shy about their preferences. 368 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that school point is good, and I think we 369 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 2: should raise that because I mean, there's not a whole 370 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: lot of difference between a four year old at day 371 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: care and a five year old at kindergarten. 372 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: And yet I think only the most like. 373 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: Militant of folks would claim that school is raising your kids. 374 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: Once you send your kids to school, like that that's 375 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: somehow culturally that's more of a freebie, Like, oh, yeah, 376 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: of course I send my kid to kindergarten. It's not 377 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 2: that I'm a horrible parent who doesn't want to be 378 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: with my kid and that's why my kid is going 379 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: to kindergarten. Even though it's like optional in a lot 380 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: of states, you know, or even sending your four year 381 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: old to preschool, like somehow sending your four year old 382 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 2: to nine to three preschool is fine, but putting them 383 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: an extra hour on either side in day care is, 384 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: you know, a different matter. 385 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 3: I don't know. 386 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: It's just because we don't like the idea of mothers working, 387 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: that these stories are out there. And I keep coming 388 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: back to this, like, even very very progressive people still 389 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: have that often as their backstory, that they don't think 390 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 2: mothers of young children should be working. And so anything 391 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: you can do to raise issues of it being bad 392 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: or telling stories about you know, somebody else's your kids 393 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: and you know, it just it's it's a fascinating thing 394 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: that we have, and of course what we try to 395 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: do in this podcast is pushback about that. So to 396 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: answer your other question, are you a bad mother for 397 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 2: wanting to set up additional childcare the two hours on 398 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: a Tuesday night so you can go to your pickleball league? No, 399 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: you are not a bad mother. Would you like to 400 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: elaborate on that, Sarah. 401 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the Tuesday night pickleball example is pretty obvious. 402 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: I guess I will say like taken to far extremes, 403 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: this could be problematic or maybe just emblematic of some 404 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: sort of underlying illness, either mental or physical, that was 405 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: making childcare very difficult. But there's a huge difference between 406 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 3: having an extra hour to fit in your pickleball or 407 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: maybe even take an uninterrupted shower versus never seeing your 408 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 3: three year old. And honestly, I don't think many of 409 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: the male halves of male female couples are really like 410 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 3: appreciate eating it with someone other than them, spend some 411 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: time with the kid outside of there's strict work hours 412 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 3: sometimes like they're not having this inner dilemma about all 413 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: the kids with mom and I'm at the gym and 414 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 3: so I must be a bad dad. 415 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's when we flip it. We 416 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: sort of see that. And to give an example of this, 417 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 2: you know, it's not a man writing in this question 418 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: to us, like it's the woman writing in this question, 419 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 2: because I don't think many men feel like a lot 420 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: of men have this story though, like whatever hours I 421 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: can spend with my kid is awesome and it makes 422 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: me the father of the year if I do it right. 423 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: And whereas for women, it's like we're subtracting from one 424 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight, and you have to pay for 425 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 2: every hour that you subtract from that in terms of 426 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: mom guilt or something like that. So, I mean, I 427 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: was thinking of this when I saw a social media 428 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 2: post the other day from a mother talking about how 429 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 2: her husband was never home in the evening. She was 430 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 2: lonely caring for all her kids, but she knew he 431 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 2: was such a hard worker, And I got to say, 432 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 2: my first thought is like, okay, Like again, you know, 433 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: we in our previous version of this, we were talking, Okay, 434 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: if somebody had like three jobs cobble together trying to 435 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: like make ends meet, that was one thing. But we're 436 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: talking professional class people here. This gentleman could find another 437 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: job if he wished to. Right, he has not shackled 438 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: to his job. He has skills that are transferable. There 439 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 2: are many companies in the world, some of which allow 440 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 2: you to see your families in the evening. Right, So 441 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: it's like, if he wanted to be home, if he 442 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: was feeling that level of social guilt that women are given, 443 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: if they were gone every evening, he would be trying 444 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 2: to find a different job. The fact that he isn't 445 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 2: is because he assumes it's not his problem, right. It's like, oh, well, 446 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: that's for my wife to take care of, right, Like, 447 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 2: And I get to be looked at as a hard 448 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 2: worker because my wife is taking care of the kids 449 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: every evening while I'm out working doing whatever it is 450 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: I'm doing. And you know, if I happen to get 451 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: out of all the messiness of actually raising my children, 452 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: then I guess that's a bonus. So I don't know, 453 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: I was personally very repulsed by this idea. 454 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's super super useful to envision opening 455 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 3: up your TikTok and seeing a man holding a toddler 456 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: up in the air saying, I'm so lonely and mom 457 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 3: hasn't been home for the last three weeks, but it's 458 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: okay because she is such a hard worker. And see, 459 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: if there are certain feelings of judgment maybe that watch 460 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: over you that aren't in place when you watch them, 461 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 3: well maybe Laura had them when she watched the initial video, 462 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 3: but most. 463 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: People don't, which is why they didn't. That was the 464 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: funny thing. 465 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: And she assumed that her followers would not have that, right, 466 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: That's why she did it. 467 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: That's why she posted it. 468 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, why she posted it as opposed to everyone thinking 469 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 2: her husband's a total jerk, right, Like, I mean, that's 470 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: that's why she posted. 471 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 3: It, right exactly. So it's fascinating that we're probably very 472 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: unlikely to see the opposite gender example and to ask 473 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: ourselves why and you're write it all comes down to 474 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 3: the idea that mom outside of the home, bad, dad 475 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 3: outside of the home, hero him spending some time with kids. 476 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: Amazing extra bonus. Yeah, and I'm not talking, you know, 477 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: my husband's going to listen to say, Hey, I'm not 478 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 3: talking personally here, I'm talking in general. 479 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: In general. 480 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so interestingly where this then you get like 481 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 2: a little freebie a bye from some of the guilt 482 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: is if you have close family living nearby to you. 483 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: Now I find this this is another fascinating cultural story here, 484 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: because let's say your sister lives next door and you 485 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: guys swap childhoir or whatever your mother is around or 486 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: your mother in law and comes and watches the kid. 487 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: Like if your mother in law came over to watch 488 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: the kids every Tuesday night so you could go play 489 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 2: in the pickleball league, most people would not be like, 490 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: oh gosh, terrible mother, mom guilt. You should feel bad 491 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: about that. Somehow It's like when it's family care, it's 492 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: a freebie. And so it's like the class of humanity 493 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: that has that gets this bye from this story of 494 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 2: mom guilt. Whereas if you don't have family nearby who 495 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: are either not nearby or if they are nearby, they're 496 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: not available to do this, and you have to pay 497 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 2: for the care, then somehow that's the problem, you know, 498 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: that's it's just an interesting it's super interesting. 499 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's some cultures where it's essentially the norm, 500 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 3: and living in South Florida, it's really common among various 501 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: like Latin communities or Cuban families where I almost feel 502 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: like I'm looked down upon because like I have to 503 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: pay people to help me out, not in a negative way, 504 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: but more of them like, ah, poor you, you have 505 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 3: to have a nanny. I'm so lucky my parents help me. 506 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: As if that's like that's the ideal, that's better. 507 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So it's just an interesting thing like this. Now, obviously, 508 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: if this couple, you know, if she does need some 509 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 2: extra leisure time, the most straightforward way to do this 510 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: without paying for child care, if she doesn't wish to 511 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 2: pay for more childcare, is for her and her partner 512 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: to trade off. So anyone who's read Tranquility by Tuesday 513 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 2: knows that one of my rules is to take one 514 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 2: night for you and to go do something like play 515 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: in the pickleball league. And if your partner also has 516 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: something I don't know, he's in the pickleball league, or 517 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 2: he or she sings an a choir or whatever it is, 518 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: that you can trade off. So your partner goes to 519 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: play in their band on Thursday night, you go play 520 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: in the pickleball league on Tuesday night. You trade off 521 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: for each other. Each of you gets one night off, 522 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: and that can be a great way for people to 523 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: really feel like they have something in their life that 524 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: is not work, that is not caring for family members. 525 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: It is uniquely for them. And you know, it feels 526 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: like you're kind of part of a team, like you're 527 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 2: both covering for each other. 528 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: So you get that. 529 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: So a lot of people have experienced that as a 530 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: very positive thing. So that's something this listener could suggest 531 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: to her partner, being like, listen, I need a little 532 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 2: bit more leisure time. You are asking not nice questions 533 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 2: about childcare. Being our kiddo's main family. If we need 534 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 2: to solve these two problems together, here is what I 535 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: would propose and see if that goes on. Well, But 536 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: obviously if that can't work for whatever reason, I don't know, 537 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 2: maybe her partner is a guy who's gone every night 538 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: or then yeah, if you're hiring a sitter for Tuesday 539 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: night because your partner cannot cover it, then you are 540 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: not outsourcing you. You are outsourcing what should be your 541 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: partner's responsibility to trade off for each other. 542 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 3: Why do I feel like this listener is not going 543 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 3: to be playing this episode for their partner. 544 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: What I mean, do you you could just listen in 545 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 2: to it yourself that we're giving you permission here to 546 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 2: go play at your pickleballia on Tuesday night, Like it's 547 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 2: totally fine. It's totally fine, even if your kids are 548 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 2: in daycare. That is, you are allowed to have your 549 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: own life, and we encourage you to have your own life. 550 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: Because this is another story, Sarah. I mean you go 551 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: on about this occasionally that you know why the trade 552 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 2: off of mom happiness versus kid happiness is describe the 553 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: way it is. 554 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean I can save that soapbox for later, 555 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 3: but whatever I'll bring, i'll more go in to. No. 556 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 3: So sometimes I feel like how moms live their lives, 557 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 3: it's only acceptable for them to make choices based on 558 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: what is the optimal happiness level for their kids on 559 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: a moment to moment basis, and zero value placed on 560 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 3: what actually mom wants to do or what would make 561 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 3: the mom happy. So like people will send their kids 562 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 3: to quote preschool because the preschool has enrichment activities that 563 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 3: are making the kids smarter and are better for the kids, 564 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 3: But you shouldn't send them to daycare because that's for 565 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: you to like do what you want or something like that. 566 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 3: And so I think at some point our society did 567 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 3: forget that moms are also people and they get to 568 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 3: enjoy things, and they have every right to do things 569 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 3: that are mostly for them sometimes. Obviously it's a balance. 570 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: I'm not advocating like go to the spot every day 571 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 3: and like do nothing for anyone ever, but also the 572 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 3: complete opposite of that isn't really helpful either. And if 573 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: you need me to get all circular and still bring 574 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 3: it back to the kids, a mom who is entirely 575 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 3: burned out and depressed because they never get any time 576 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: to themselves, probably isn't going to be the best mom. 577 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 3: But at the same time, I hate that argument because 578 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 3: again that's only value does about kids. 579 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. 580 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 2: One other thing, because we started this with the discussion 581 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: of the math and how many hours you are with 582 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 2: your kid versus the kid being in other childcare, and 583 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: again encourage you to look at this over a longer 584 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: term horizon, like and you're taking into account the sick 585 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: days you cover with daycare, the holidays, the vacations, everything 586 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: like that. But this is one of the interesting things 587 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: with time day studies that it was first fascinated by 588 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: when I started writing one hundred and sixty eight Hours 589 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: Low these many years ago, is that the difference between 590 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: the amount of time that stay at home mothers of 591 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: small kids we're talking under six years old and working 592 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 2: mothers of children under age six, the difference in the 593 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: amount of child care hours they spend per week is 594 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: not as many as you think, like, it's not forty 595 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 2: hours a week, right, And so I was looking into that, like, well, 596 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: why is that right? Why is it not forty hours 597 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: a week? And there's couple reasons. I mean, first most 598 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: mothers don't actually work that much. There's obviously a lot 599 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 2: of people in part time roles, but even people in 600 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: full time rules, often time diaries are somewhere in the thirties. 601 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: And partly that's because of the nature of sick days 602 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: and holidays and other things that come into life that 603 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: you then wind up covering that make it actually often 604 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: really challenging to log a full forty hours at your workplace. 605 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: So anyway, it's under forty hours for many people even 606 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: in full time roles. Second, kids just aren't as available 607 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: to spend time with as we might think they are. 608 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 2: You know, obviously there's the issue of them napping when 609 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: they're really little. But then even in these days, a 610 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 2: lot of three and four year olds are at least 611 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: in part time care even if their parents are not 612 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: in the workforce. I mean, that's just something that's seen 613 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: as acceptable, and that's you know, in many cases great 614 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: like I think, you know, kids have a lot to 615 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: learn before they are five or six years old, so 616 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: they're not as available with that. There's the reality of 617 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: family care, right like, in many cases people who are 618 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: home with their kids may also have times they are 619 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: trading off with other parents and other caregivers and other 620 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: family members just because of you know, obviously, being alone 621 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: with your kids all day, every day can get very challenging, 622 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: and if you have other things you need to do 623 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: in your life, for instance, the kid winds up with 624 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: grandma for a day while you go do something else, 625 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: whether that's leisure or whether it's going to visit your 626 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: mother in law in the hospital. I mean, there's all 627 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: sorts of reasons people need their children to be in 628 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: someone else's care for some amount of time, even if 629 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: they are not in the workforce and having full time care. 630 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: But anyway, between all of these things that naps the 631 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: activities that the preschool shared care with other people, there 632 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: just aren't as many hours available for people to be 633 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: with their mothers then you might assume. And that's why 634 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 2: the differences are not forty hours a week. And obviously 635 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: as kids get older than the window of time like 636 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: narrow is even more. 637 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: And I will say the window of time the kids 638 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 3: spend with other caregivers narrows like crazy as they get older. 639 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 3: Because you know, when my kids were babies, they spend 640 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 3: hours and hours of time with our nanny. I usually 641 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: had them in some kind of quote preschool program, because 642 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 3: I just felt like it was kind of good for them, 643 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 3: and in my case, it was in addition to having 644 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 3: the nanny, so there was me looking for their kind 645 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 3: of social act, something to do. Basically. Anyway, back then, 646 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 3: back in twenty fourteen, hours and hours of time were 647 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: spent with our nanny. And now, I mean there are 648 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 3: days when it's reduced to a mere sliver because I 649 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 3: often dropped them off at school. They're not even done 650 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 3: with school until close to four o'clock, and then they 651 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: might be home for like forty minutes, most of which 652 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: is consisting of like taking a shower and putting on 653 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 3: their dance outfit, and then they go to dance, and 654 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 3: then I pick them up from dance at like six 655 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 3: or six thirty. So I mean, that's just an example 656 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 3: of a random day. But what used to be a 657 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 3: very long, unstructured swath of time is reduced to very 658 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: very little. So things also change. So much of the 659 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 3: parenting discussions are based on what people do with babies 660 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: and toddlers because I think it's I guess maybe more 661 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 3: standardized or people are really excited to look for resources 662 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 3: in that age group. But my kids are still kids, 663 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 3: and we still have outside caregivers, but it just looks 664 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: very different from a math perspective. 665 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I think, is that our question? Sarah? 666 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: I forgot did we do we have another question in 667 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: this episode? Or we did disappear to have another question? 668 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 3: And thankfully I did leave my love of the week 669 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 3: on this page because I wasn't remembering what I had 670 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 3: said the last time we recorded it. 671 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess my love of the week would 672 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: be a portable charger. I don't remember what I said 673 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: in the first recording, but we'll go with the portable 674 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 2: charger because I have an old car and it like 675 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: does not work for charging anything. Like you know, it 676 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: was not a thing that you would be charging your 677 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: iPhone in the car constantly, and so I couldn't even 678 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: get the like plug into the cigarette lighter thing to 679 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 2: work anymore. So I had to buy a portable charger. 680 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: But it worked quite well. 681 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: You know. 682 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: I charged it up. 683 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: Before I drove to Portland, Maine in the first part 684 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 2: of my week in which I met Sarah, and it 685 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: took me, you know, nine hours on the road to 686 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 2: get there for a variety of reasons between being behind 687 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: an accident on the tappan Zee Bridge, and then my 688 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: stops here and there to get lunch, go to the bathroom, 689 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: get gas, whatever else. And so I needed something to 690 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: charge my phone, especially since I had the map thing 691 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: going for a while. And this worked well, you know, 692 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: I ran it down to you know, forty percent on 693 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 2: the regular charge, then I charged it in and it 694 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: was charging the whole rest of the time. I mean, 695 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: I got to Portland with pretty much a full charge 696 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: on my phone, which was good because I was slightly 697 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: worried about that being a problem and something that could 698 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: go wrong in taking a long road trip by myself. 699 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 3: Yay, and your road trip went pretty smoothly, except for 700 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: maybe a rainstorm on the way home. 701 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's true. I'm driving home. There was a 702 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: pretty gigantic rainstorm. Was I slid a little bit on 703 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 2: the Jersey Turnpike and I was next to a truck 704 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: and that was not fun. So I actually took a 705 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 2: little break after that and went to one of the 706 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 2: turnpike rest stops for a while and hung out in 707 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: the car, answered some texts, and eventually got back on 708 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: the road. That's always smart. 709 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 3: Well, my love of the week is just short getaways 710 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 3: where I get to see friends and escape Florida weather. 711 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 3: I love building, as you heard in the beginning of 712 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 3: this episode, like a few of those into the year, 713 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: I feel like they benefit me so much from a 714 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 3: mental health perspective. I always come back refreshed, I always 715 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: get so many great ideas, and this one had a 716 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 3: huge benefit because not only did I get to hang 717 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 3: out with Laura, but I get to hang out with 718 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 3: one of my college BFFs as well for like half 719 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 3: a day, and we all had dinner together, which was amazing. 720 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 3: So yeah, that is my love of the week. 721 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, world's colliding exactly. All right, Well, this has been 722 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 2: best of both worlds. We've been talking about the math 723 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: of childcare hours and whether you should feel guilty about 724 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: hiring a setter so you can go to your pick 725 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: ball league on Tuesday, with the general takeaway being that no, 726 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: unless you are the rare parent listening to this who 727 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: truly never sees their children, you are probably doing all right. 728 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 2: And for this listener who was writing in about it, 729 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: like the fact that she cares enough to be concerned 730 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: about it, I think suggests she's probably doing pretty well. 731 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 2: So anyway, this has been best of both worlds. We'll 732 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: be back next week with more on making work and 733 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 2: life fit together. 734 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 735 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 736 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 3: and you can. 737 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 2: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 738 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 739 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: next time for more on making work and life work together.