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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. In the headlines recently are the

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Speaker 1: shocking revelations surrounding the Long Island serial Killer. From twenty

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Speaker 1: ten to twenty twelve, the remains of eleven bodies were

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Speaker 1: discovered in or near Gilgo Beach on the south shore

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Speaker 1: of Long Island, with many of the victims being young

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Speaker 1: female sex workers. The case went unsolved for thirteen years

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Speaker 1: until July thirteenth of this year, when Rex Huerman, a

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Speaker 1: fifty nine year old architect, husband and father, was arrested

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Speaker 1: and charged with the murder of three women in the

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Speaker 1: case and named as the prime suspect in a fourth.

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Speaker 1: Hueerman pled not guilty long before the arrest. I discovered

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Speaker 1: and quickly devoured the podcast unraveled the Long Island serial Killer.

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Speaker 1: Later in the pro we'll catch up on the current

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Speaker 1: state of the case, but first I want to share

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Speaker 1: my original conversation with the podcast's hosts and executive producers,

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Speaker 1: Billy Jensen and Alexis Linkletter. This conversation was recorded about

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Speaker 1: a year before the Latest Discoveries, their investigative podcast and

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Speaker 1: accompanying documentary unravel a web of police corruption and cover

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Speaker 1: up centering on the scandal ridden Suffolk County Chief of

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Speaker 1: Police James Burke. Suffolk County Executive Steve Malone appointed Burke

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Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. Four years later, Burke was convicted of

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Speaker 1: assault and obstruction of justice for his attack on civilian

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Speaker 1: Christopher Loeb, who had stolen a Duffel bag containing pornography

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Speaker 1: and sex toys from Burke's truck. You cannot make this up.

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Speaker 1: Burke was sentenced to forty six months in federal prison,

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Speaker 1: and in twenty nineteen, District Attorney Thomas Spoda was also

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Speaker 1: convin for covering up the assault. Burke's role in the

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Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer investigation is now under a spotlight,

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Speaker 1: as he blocked the FBI from participating back when it

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Speaker 1: was under his control. For link Letter and Jensen, I

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Speaker 1: imagine putting their podcast together was challenging digging into a

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Speaker 1: whizzly case involving some of the darkest pieces of humanity.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know if there was ever a time

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Speaker 1: when the work itself became too dark for them.

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Speaker 2: You know, with this case and the way that we

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Speaker 2: approach this case, Long Island Serial Killer has been covered

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Speaker 2: so many times, and a lot of people have covered

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Speaker 2: a lot of the details. One of the things about

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Speaker 2: this case as opposed to other cases, is that there

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Speaker 2: have been so few details that have been led out

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Speaker 2: by the police, So there's not much that you might

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Speaker 2: see of the kind of gory aspects that you might

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Speaker 2: hear on other podcasts or see on TV. And what

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Speaker 2: we were really doing was investigating the investigation. It was

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Speaker 2: different for us because as opposed to the typical things

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Speaker 2: that I've done in my career, which is looking at

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Speaker 2: unsolved crimes and unsolved murders and trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: who done it, this got a very political, and it

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Speaker 2: got very entangled, and it got more about power and

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Speaker 2: privilege and going down those rabbit holes and then trying

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Speaker 2: to hold those people accountable.

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Speaker 3: For me, I saw this as such an incredible opportunity

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Speaker 3: to discuss sort of political corruption and use this case,

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Speaker 3: which it is, as a microchasm for what happens everywhere.

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Speaker 3: And I never got sick of it because it was

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Speaker 3: such an opportunity. Because when you try to sell it

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Speaker 3: a show or a podcast concept about corruption and exploitation

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Speaker 3: of power, nobody wants to listen to that everyone thinks

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Speaker 3: that's boring. So this was such a unique case where

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Speaker 3: the political corruption overlapped with an unsolved case, and it

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Speaker 3: really got people interested in politics and interested in talking

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Speaker 3: about the political corruption that's going on on Long Island

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Speaker 3: in a way that I don't think people were before,

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Speaker 3: because a completely different group of people were exposed to

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Speaker 3: it and could consume it in a way that was

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Speaker 3: palatable for them. A lot of people don't want to

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Speaker 3: hear about indictments of political officials. I mean, they just

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Speaker 3: don't get it, and they don't see they see it

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Speaker 3: sort of as a victimless crime in some ways, and

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Speaker 3: here it was a really tangible way for people to

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Speaker 3: digest what was happening in this part of New York.

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Speaker 1: So Alexis correct me if I'm wrong. But the genesis

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Speaker 1: of this, or at least a component of the genesis

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Speaker 1: of this, is that you knew Lobe and you went

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Speaker 1: to school with Lobe correct.

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Speaker 3: Correct? So I went to middle school and high school

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Speaker 3: with Chris Lobe.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and he approached you like, had you knowing him?

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Speaker 1: You knew about the case, and how did you make

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Speaker 1: the match to do the podcast?

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Speaker 3: So Chris and I got back in touch. I was

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Speaker 3: already living here in Los Angeles and a friend of

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Speaker 3: mine called me and told me that she was seeing

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Speaker 3: Chris in the news, and I just started googling and

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Speaker 3: digging into it, and I sort of understood off the

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Speaker 3: jump the breath of what he was involved in. At

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Speaker 3: the time, he was at the Queen's Correctional Detention Center,

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Speaker 3: and he was there in custody, in federal custody because

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Speaker 3: at that point they were sort of investigating James Burke's

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Speaker 3: role and Chris Lobes beating. So I sort of got

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Speaker 3: in with Chris at that point. I contacted his girlfriend

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Speaker 3: and she put me in touch with him, and we

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Speaker 3: started having calls when he was in protective custody. And

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Speaker 3: it took a few years to get him to want

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Speaker 3: to do this because he felt that he was in

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Speaker 3: danger for sharing his stories. So it took us, you know,

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Speaker 3: four years or something for him to come around actually

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Speaker 3: participate in something.

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Speaker 1: Really that long. Yeah, Now, I devoured every episode and

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Speaker 1: I found this fascinating in the same way that anybody

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Speaker 1: else would. But I did forget, which surprises me. A

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Speaker 1: fundamental piece of it, which was when Lobe is rifling

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Speaker 1: through Burke's car, finds the evidence bag, puts that in

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Speaker 1: the Duffel bag, goes home, finds out all the pirates

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Speaker 1: treasure that's in there for him. What is it that

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Speaker 1: leads Burke and his squad to come find and what

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Speaker 1: tips them off that Lobe is the perpetrator? How do

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Speaker 1: they get to Lobe's house.

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Speaker 3: It happens that Chris was on probation at the time

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Speaker 3: and he actually had a parole officer arrived that morning.

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Speaker 3: The story is that it was by chance, that it

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Speaker 3: was a coincidence. It's unclear if that's true, but the

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Speaker 3: story is that he had a probation visit and the

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Speaker 3: officer found something that appeared stolen and that's what led

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Speaker 3: the police to descend upon the house that morning. Unclear

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Speaker 3: if that's true.

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Speaker 1: So the probation officers who allowed to toss your house

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Speaker 1: and look for paraphernalia or drugs or whether they're allowed

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Speaker 1: to search your house.

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Speaker 3: So there was a visit that was a surprise visit apparently,

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Speaker 3: and again the stories kind of suspect. But this is

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Speaker 3: what we understand based on the facts, based on you know,

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Speaker 3: the criminal case against Burke.

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Speaker 1: What does Lobe content happened. What does he think happened?

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Speaker 3: He doesn't know either. Well, there was definitely surveillance cameras

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Speaker 3: at Burke's house as well, So it's unclear whether the

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Speaker 3: probation officer story is true or they found him by

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Speaker 3: some other way and they had to make that up.

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Speaker 3: But the official story is that there was a probation

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Speaker 3: visit that morning, which led police there to discover that

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Speaker 3: there was stolen property at the house. And you know,

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Speaker 3: one thing led to the next, with Burke in his

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Speaker 3: entire group descending upon the house and ripping Lobe out

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Speaker 3: of his bed and taking him back to the precinct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it seemed incredibly convenient that there happened to

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Speaker 2: be a visit right then. You know, probation officers will visit,

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Speaker 2: but they don't you know, just what is the luck

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Speaker 2: of the draw there, Because if they had known it

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Speaker 2: was this kid, he was known to the police, you know,

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Speaker 2: they would have had to potentially have gone getting a

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Speaker 2: warrant do all of this stuff. But they were able

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Speaker 2: to say, hey, let's send the probation officer and do

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Speaker 2: it that way. Then they would be able to have

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Speaker 2: a lot more reason to go in and not have

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Speaker 2: to go through all the rigamarole of getting a warrant

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Speaker 2: and doing things are the right way as you're supposed

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Speaker 2: to do in a democracy.

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Speaker 1: Now, Burke, he starts out in the Suffolk County Police

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Speaker 1: Department or Sheriff's.

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Speaker 3: Department, police department.

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Speaker 1: When he's plucked by spotted to come into the DA's office.

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Speaker 1: Where is he in? What rank is he? Is he

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Speaker 1: a lieutenant or what it say?

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Speaker 3: So he was promoted basically up to I think captain

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Speaker 3: and then by the time he's moved over to the

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Speaker 3: DA's office around ten twenty eleven, he becomes a DA

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Speaker 3: investigator directly Underspoda at the Sepha County Day's Office.

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Speaker 1: And when he was a captain, he was a captain

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Speaker 1: in the PD or the Sheriff's Police Department. He was

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Speaker 1: in the Sefha County Police Department, and then which he

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Speaker 1: returns to when he becomes the chief of the police department. Correct.

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Speaker 3: Correct.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that was fascinating to me was

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Speaker 1: did the killings as they were uncovered with the bodies themselves.

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Speaker 1: When bodies start emerging, the first body has found, what year?

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Speaker 2: It was December of twenty ten, So.

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Speaker 1: When twenty ten was Burke a captain in the PD.

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Speaker 1: Was he in Spota's office or was he or was

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Speaker 1: he the chief of police at the time.

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Speaker 3: He was at the District Attorney's office as a DA

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Speaker 3: investigator at that time, So.

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Speaker 1: He's a DA investigator, he's in Spota's office. See, this

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Speaker 1: is what I find interesting is did you get anybody

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Speaker 1: that you had strong feelings about but he didn't have

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Speaker 1: any corroboration or nobody would would would speak on microphone.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible that Spot and people in his office

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Speaker 1: they just didn't know what Burke was up to?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. Spoda met him at a time

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Speaker 2: when he was a juvenile delinquent. You know, during the

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Speaker 2: John Pious case, he used him as one of his witnesses,

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Speaker 2: and that was the case that kind of made him.

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Speaker 2: The John Pious case is a case where a teenage

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Speaker 2: boy was found dead and rocks had been shoved if

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Speaker 2: pebbles had been shoved down his throat, and the official

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Speaker 2: story that came out is that he had seen kids

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Speaker 2: stealing a worthless frame of a mini bike and then

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Speaker 2: they did that to shut him up. A lot of innuendo,

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Speaker 2: a lot of things, and they needed to get corroboration

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Speaker 2: of Oh I heard this, you know, I was at

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Speaker 2: some place and I heard somebody saying, yeah, we killed

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Speaker 2: that kid, that kind of thing. Spoda finds Burke and

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Speaker 2: then he kind of acts as his guardian angel throughout

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Speaker 2: his career. He knows what's going on. You know, Burke

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Speaker 2: had had so many different you know, misadventures and things like,

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Speaker 2: you know, having sex with a sex worker in uniform

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Speaker 2: in his cruiser, losing his gun at her house, like

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Speaker 2: these things that were internal affairs that had looked at it,

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Speaker 2: and he still kept rising through the ranks. He was

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of things that, quite frankly, should have

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Speaker 2: gotten him, you know, more than just a slap on

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Speaker 2: the wrist.

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Speaker 1: I think, what did he do?

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Speaker 2: He lost like a couple of weeks vacation, and we

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Speaker 2: know that Spoda was looking out for him the entire time.

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Speaker 2: So why he was doing this, you know, why he

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Speaker 2: never cut bait on him. That's between those guys. We

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Speaker 2: just don't know what they might have had on each

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Speaker 2: other or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, between the time that Spoda was working as a prosecutor,

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Speaker 3: he worked for the Suffoc Kenny District Attorney's Office several times,

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Speaker 3: but He had periods of time in between where he

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Speaker 3: worked as a defense attorney in several other things, and

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Speaker 3: he did a ton of work for the Police Benevolent

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Speaker 3: Association in the police unions, and he represented Burke in

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Speaker 3: these indiscretions when there were internal affairs, internal investigations conducted

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Speaker 3: on Burke's behavior. So Spoda was his advocate when Burke

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Speaker 3: made mistakes and when Burke went against protocol, and Spoda

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Speaker 3: knew every step of the way. To answer your question,

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Speaker 3: he knew everything.

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Speaker 1: How old was Spoda when he was sentenced to prisoner?

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Speaker 1: Was he seventy five?

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Speaker 3: He just went a few months ago. I think he's

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Speaker 3: seventy four. He just began his term.

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Speaker 1: He just went a few months ago.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for some reason, there was a delay in his

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Speaker 3: needing to serve. Burke went, you know, years ago. He's

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Speaker 3: been out for a while. A Spoda just went.

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Speaker 1: And Spoda went for how long?

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Speaker 2: Something like three years?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Amazing. Now I'm going to assume that Bologne is

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Speaker 1: insulated from understanding the facts of this case and the

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Speaker 1: severity of this case, in the way that the Mayor

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Speaker 1: of New York is walled off from the police department.

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Speaker 1: The police department in New York of zero transparency, or

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Speaker 1: they aim for that. They want to adjudicate all their

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Speaker 1: own cases and they don't want any interference with their

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Speaker 1: own internal disciplinary system.

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily, you know, because one of the things that happened,

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Speaker 2: one of the things that we learned is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: the scuttle butt was that they find the bodies on

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Speaker 2: the beach, there's an out, there's a year long investigation,

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Speaker 2: they're being somewhat transparent, they're having press conferences, and then

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Speaker 2: Bologne comes on their scuttle butt that Bologna is going

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Speaker 2: to hire Burke as his chief of police. And Burke

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Speaker 2: had done a lot of things about intelligent policing. He

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Speaker 2: had this PowerPoint presentation that he used to dazzle people

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Speaker 2: with and all of this stuff. So a few people

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Speaker 2: got together and sent an anonymous letter to Bologne outlining

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Speaker 2: why you shouldn't hire this guy and saying all of

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Speaker 2: the outlining everything that he had done, all the internal

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Speaker 2: affairs things and everything like that, and he just kind

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Speaker 2: of shuffled it off and said, no, I'm still going

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Speaker 2: to hire this guy. I think he's good, i think

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Speaker 2: he's the future of Suffolk County. He went ahead and

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Speaker 2: he hired Burke. First thing that Burke does is he

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Speaker 2: fires all of the chiefs, including the head of the

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Speaker 2: homicide squad, Dominic Varon. And this is a guy that's

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Speaker 2: been working on this case for a year. Of the

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Speaker 2: bodies that were found on Kilgo Beach. He doesn't even

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Speaker 2: do a debriefing. He doesn't find it. He doesn't talk

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Speaker 2: to him, Hey, where you're going, you know, who do

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Speaker 2: you think did this? Or anything like that. He just

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Speaker 2: tells him you leave.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: Second thing he does is then kicks out the FBI

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Speaker 2: and says, we don't need you anymore. And the third

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Speaker 2: thing he does is there's no more talking about the case.

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Speaker 1: That was it. Burke says this after Bologne makes him

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Speaker 1: the head of the police department.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Bologne, should it be presumed, made Burke the

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Speaker 1: chief of the police department on Spoda's recommendation or did

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Speaker 1: Bolone have his own belief in him?

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Speaker 2: It's been said that Boloone had his own belief in him. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and Spoda was. I mean, there's talk also, and I've

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Speaker 2: talked to people that said that Spoda wanted Burke to

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Speaker 2: stay with him in the DA's office. But you know

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Speaker 2: and thatone Bolone has been sort of characterized and he's

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Speaker 2: tried to characterize himself, which he did in our interviews.

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Speaker 2: Is this kind of being hoodwinked by this guy. He

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Speaker 2: dazzled him with these ideas about how this new policing

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Speaker 2: was going to work, and that's the reason why he

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Speaker 2: chose him.

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Speaker 3: Well, And we know that when Bologne was considering hiring Burke,

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Speaker 3: we know that he received a letter warning Bloone about

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Speaker 3: Burke's behavior in his history with sex workers and his

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Speaker 3: history with drugs, and Spoda told Bologne to ignore the

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Speaker 3: letter and that none of it was true, which Spoda

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Speaker 3: knew the contents of the letter were true because he

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Speaker 3: defended him in several of these cases. So we know

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Speaker 3: that Spoto was sort of the censure in the hiring

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Speaker 3: of Burke.

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Speaker 1: Because I find that interesting. If Belong, I thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: how did Bloge survive? Beloone? If I'm not mistaken, is

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Speaker 1: still the Suffolk County executive Correct?

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Speaker 3: Yes he is.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Alexis link Letter and Billy Jensen. If you enjoy

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Speaker 1: conversations about true crime investigations, check out my episode with

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Speaker 1: the directors of the Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer

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Speaker 1: Laura Ricardi and Moira.

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Speaker 4: Dimas, it just seemed like, you know, he was this

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Speaker 4: incredible window through which to look at our system. You know,

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Speaker 4: if we followed this man's story, we would go from

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Speaker 4: one extreme of the system to the other. So as

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Speaker 4: I was saying, you know, we had no money, but

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Speaker 4: what we what we could put into it was time,

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Speaker 4: which is actually an incredibly valuable asset. And after doing

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Speaker 4: a preliminary week of shooting in December, realized this was

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Speaker 4: something we wanted to pursue, and we sublet our apartment

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Speaker 4: in New York. We've got an apartment in Manatwack and

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Speaker 4: we lived there, you know more on and off for

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Speaker 4: close to two years.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Laura Richardi and

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Speaker 1: Moira Dimas, go to Here's the Thing dot org. After

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Speaker 1: the Break, alexislink Letter and Billy Jensen share what they

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Speaker 1: believe is behind the phenomenon of true crime reporting. I'm

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Alexis

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Speaker 1: link Letter and Billy Jensen released Unraveled Long Island serial

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Speaker 1: Killer in January of twenty twenty one and a companion

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Speaker 1: documentary that march over a decade after the first bodies

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Speaker 1: were discovered. I spoke with them in June of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two and wanted to know how the case was

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Speaker 1: evolving since the release of their series.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that happened, so, you know,

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Speaker 2: us talking to Beloone. You know, we originally had reached

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Speaker 2: out to everybody to try and talk to them. We

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Speaker 2: talked to Geraldine Hart, who was the chief of the

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Speaker 2: police at the time. Bolone didn't want to talk to us,

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Speaker 2: but once he heard the line of questioning that we

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Speaker 2: had given to geraldine Hart, they really wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: to us, which I think was telling. We talked to

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Speaker 2: Geraldine Hart, We asked for transparency. There were a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that they weren't releasing. They weren't releasing the

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Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert nine one one call who really kicked off

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Speaker 2: this investigation. She was the sex worker who had gone

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Speaker 2: missing in the town of Oak Beach in the spring

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Speaker 2: of twenty ten. And you know, there was also other

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Speaker 2: things as well, just a lot of other evidence that

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Speaker 2: they just weren't sharing. And if you hadn't had any

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Speaker 2: answers right now, why wouldn't you share this evidence? So

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Speaker 2: we were asking for transparency. We talked to Bologne and

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Speaker 2: you know, Bloone very much made the you know, yes,

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Speaker 2: Burke was a bad guy. I didn't know it. You know,

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Speaker 2: we didn't know we had a sociopath, and we asked

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Speaker 2: him straight out, were you comfortable having a sociopath once

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Speaker 2: you knew he was? You know, he left him in

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Speaker 2: a position of power for two years and he had

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Speaker 2: a sociopath that he thought was a sociopath running the

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Speaker 2: Suffocunty Police Department for two years. And he said because

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to interrupt a federal investigation, which I

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Speaker 2: think is incredibly disingenuous and quite frankly dangerous. So after

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Speaker 2: the podcast came out, Geraldine Hart left to become the

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Speaker 2: chief of security at Hofstra University. Tim Seeney, who is

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Speaker 2: the DA. He lost the election to Ray Tierney, and

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Speaker 2: they actually have been using this as a political platform.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to solve the Long Island serial killer case,

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Speaker 2: which when you think about it, you know, this is

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Speaker 2: a twelve year old case. It's something quite remarkable, and

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00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 2: you know, us going in there and rattling the cages,

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Speaker 2: I think really helped with that, and since Tierney came in,

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Speaker 2: they hired a new police chief, and they were able

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Speaker 2: to start releasing the things that we've been asking for

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Speaker 2: them to release, like the nine one one call, like

365
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Speaker 2: the last video of one of the victims, Megan Waterman,

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Speaker 2: the last video when she was seen at a hotel

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Speaker 2: in Hoppog, that kind of thing. So there's a lot

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Speaker 2: more transparency. They created a task force that they say

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Speaker 2: is the first ever task force that they've created with federal,

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Speaker 2: local and state authorities. But we still have a lot

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Speaker 2: more questions. You know, what is going on with that

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Speaker 2: task force? What are you doing with it? How are

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Speaker 2: you trying to identify the unidentified victims, and how are

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Speaker 2: you trying to go to identifying bottom line who killed

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Speaker 2: these women?

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm going to ask this to Billy first, were

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Speaker 1: you ever afraid these are police officers who have the

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Speaker 1: ultimate tools and the ultimate power of their disposal to

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Speaker 1: kill people and did Yeah, you're dealing with a story

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Speaker 1: in which potentially Burke himself is the killer. Were you

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Speaker 1: ever afraid of what kind of retaliation you might face?

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Speaker 2: You know, when we were there, it was a very

383
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 2: very odd time when we were working on this story

384
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 2: because it was still during the pandemic. We actually traveled

385
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Speaker 2: to Long Island, stayed in in airbnb, and had to

386
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 2: quarantine for two weeks. We couldn't even go out, so

387
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 2: we were doing a lot of our work on the

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Speaker 2: phones and everything. And then when we finally did go out,

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Speaker 2: you know, and even when we knocked on Burke's door,

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Speaker 2: which we knew we were going to have to do,

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Speaker 2: there was not that much fear there. I found myself

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Speaker 2: in other situations. It sounds it felt like he was

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Speaker 2: laying low and cowering, and quite frankly, when we knocked

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Speaker 2: on the door, somebody that definitely sounded like him, you know.

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Speaker 2: It was a very meek voice that said he doesn't

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Speaker 2: live here, you know, and it just sounded like this

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Speaker 2: is somebody that wanted this to kind of go away.

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Speaker 1: You never contacted, you never were successful in contacting him.

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Speaker 2: Just through the door.

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Speaker 1: If that was him.

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00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we sent letters to his attorney and

402
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 2: did everything. But yeah, and you tried multiple times to

403
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: reach out to tried multiple times and in fact, you know,

404
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 2: there's a moment in the podcast and on the Unraveled

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Speaker 2: TV show on Discovery Plus about he you know, talking

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Speaker 2: to his life lawyer, and his lawyer telling us, you know,

407
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: you know, we would like to talk to him, and

408
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 2: as a lawyer telling us, you know, well be careful,

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00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: be careful what you do. It sounded like a threat,

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00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: you know, it sounded like, you know, you have a

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00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 2: nice store here, would hate for something bad to happen

412
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 2: to with that kind of thing.

413
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: Let me get a Lexus's response to that as well.

414
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: Did you ever feel afraid this is a guy that

415
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: killed a lot of women specifically, Well.

416
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 3: Listen, we don't know, you know, we can't say for

417
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 3: sure the level of violence that Burke has contributed to.

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00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 3: You know, it was what I can say, and it

419
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: bleeds into your last question about these people take advantage

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Speaker 3: of people with less power, you know, vulnerable people, and

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Speaker 3: the stories we've heard about the kind of violence Burke

422
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 3: perpetrates against women, you know, our stories like from the

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Speaker 3: sex worker we spoke to her names Jane. You know,

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Speaker 3: she had a violent sexual encounter with James Burke after

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Speaker 3: the body's already started popping up in the neighborhood where

426
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 3: these bodies were popping up. You know, I think I'm

427
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 3: too strong for someone like James Burke. I think James

428
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Burke wields his power over the vulnerable, over the Chris

429
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Speaker 3: Lobes who are chained to the floor, over the Janes

430
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Speaker 3: who are you know, who need money and who you

431
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 3: know are are forced into sex work. Frankly, so I

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Speaker 3: feel protected. I don't feel like I could be targeted

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00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 3: by Burke because I'm not vulnerable enough for him.

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Speaker 1: How much time did Burke serve in prison?

435
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 3: Thirty six months? Thirty two months?

436
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: And he got out early? Did he get did he

437
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: get out a little early?

438
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting, While he was in there, we

439
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: found out that they found oxy in his cell and

440
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: he got no extra time for it. He got out,

441
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: you know, on time. He didn't serve any extra time

442
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 3: for that. And I don't believe he got out particularly early.

443
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: Is he tethered to somewhere in that community, somewhere in

444
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: Seffolk County by probation? Is he on probation for some

445
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: length of time or is that over with as well?

446
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: I believe that's over with. But he is getting his penny. Sure,

447
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: he is still getting his pension, which is you know,

448
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. So even though

449
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 3: he was corrupt. You know, he was able to keep

450
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 3: all of his police benefits, which are costing taxpayers. You know,

451
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: it's unbelievable how still he's able to profit. What happened

452
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 3: with Chris Lowe was just the tip of the iceberg

453
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 3: as far as the malice he's been involved in. So

454
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 3: it's just shocking that he's still getting paid his pension

455
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: in retirement we have.

456
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: You know, he's out there living his life. You know,

457
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: we've seen people, you know, people text us. I just

458
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: saw him at the Deli. I just saw him at

459
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: the Robbi Krieger concert out on the on the East End.

460
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: You know, he's out there just spending his pension and

461
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: doing his.

462
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: So he's out in public living his life. Yeah, you're if.

463
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: You're in Suffolk County, you very well could run into him.

464
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: My god, Do you think he's the Long Island serial killer?

465
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: You know what?

466
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 2: For me, I think that because the FEDS investigated him

467
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: so much, I leaned towards no, just because they would

468
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: have found that. Do I think that that there's a

469
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: possibility that he may know some people that maybe you know,

470
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 2: along those lines, he might have partied with them, protecting

471
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: people something along those lines or But the thing that

472
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: we definitely know is that we know that he did

473
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: not care for women, and we know that he did

474
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 2: not care specifically for sex workers. So someone that was

475
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 2: in the position of trying to solve these women's murders,

476
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: he didn't care to do that, and he was the

477
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 2: number one person that was supposed to be doing that.

478
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: So that's almost as bad.

479
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 3: I've said this from the beginning. What Burke contributes to,

480
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: undeniably and indisputably is the attitude towards sex workers that

481
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: enabled the Long Island serial killer. You know, Burke was

482
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: having encounters with sex workers in the same neighborhood. It's

483
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: an attitude and he's definitely connected to that and the

484
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: fact that he was partying in this neighborhood, the same

485
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 3: neighborhood where the bodies are popping up with sex workers,

486
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 3: and he's got connections to people all over this neighborhood.

487
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: There's no doubt that there are some loose connections here somewhere,

488
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 3: And really, from a symbolic standpoint, you know, he was

489
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 3: sleeping with sex workers in this neighborhood. So when he

490
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 3: gets control of the investigation, it tanks and knows dives

491
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: because he's trying to cover up his own indiscretion. So

492
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 3: is he the Long Island serial killer? No, I don't

493
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: think so, but he definitely is the reason why the

494
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: case isn't soolved, and he's got loose connections and he

495
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: contributes to this attitude about the sex workers, which is

496
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: why nobody cared it first, and Burke has a lot

497
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: to do with that.

498
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: Has Bologne made any statements or Spota's successors, has anybody

499
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: made any statements about their determination to solve this case.

500
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I mean it was just from the fact

501
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: that it was used as a platform during the DA's race.

502
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: I think Bologne having put pressure on him even twelve

503
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: years later, coming Rodney Harrison, who's the new police chief,

504
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: he told him, listen, I want this case solved, you know,

505
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: because not only would it be a feather in his cap,

506
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: it would push him further away from Burke, who he

507
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: realizes he made a mistake of, you know, naming him

508
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: the chief of police. So they have come out and

509
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: they have said, yeah, we are determined to solve this case.

510
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: It's funny gilgo Toe Bay, Jones Beach, that's my stomping

511
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: ground from my childhood in the way that each of

512
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: the townships on Long Island, running kind of in strips

513
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: from north to south, from Oyster Bay down to Massapeak

514
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: where where I'm from, and Toebay Beach was our town

515
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: beach for our residents. Jones Beach obviously is a state park.

516
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: That whole area was where I spent my entire childhood.

517
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: Other than those little pockets of residential properties, it's a

518
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: very very eerie and very very kind of foreboding place.

519
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: You know. Now, what about the nine to one to

520
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: one call? Refresh my memory here? Has that been released?

521
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: Is that available to listen to or not?

522
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: Just very recently? It was released about two three weeks ago,

523
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: but mind you literally literally the call was made in

524
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: May of twenty ten. They just released the nine one

525
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: one call three weeks ago. And the Gilbert family attorney,

526
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: John Ray, who's a friend of mine, he has been

527
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: fighting this entire time to have her release, and only

528
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: under the tutelage of this new police chief, Rodney Harrison.

529
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: He's you know, made it a point to start releasing

530
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 3: the evidence that everybody's been calling for, because why would

531
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 3: you not release that nine one one call? Especially the

532
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: police have always maintained that Shannon Gilbert is not connected

533
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 3: to the other Long Island serial killer victims. So if

534
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: she's not, why the secrecy having to do with the

535
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 3: nine one one call? It was a confusing, contradictory move.

536
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: And what is the length of the call? Is it

537
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: terse and dramatic and intense and short or is does

538
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: it lengthy?

539
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: It's about twenty three minutes?

540
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: My god. Yeah.

541
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: There are parts of it that are very tense. There

542
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: are parts of it that are not tense. You know,

543
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: there's parts when she's saying things like they're trying to

544
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: kill me, or they're going to kill me. There are

545
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: parts when you hear her running running away from something

546
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: or somebody. You know, we know that she was in

547
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: the house, and we know that something happened within that house,

548
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: and it was just a matter of trying to decide

549
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: what was going on. You know, the person her client

550
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: that night and her driver that night supposedly have you know,

551
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: cooperated with the police. But it was just one of

552
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: those things where everybody was asking to hear the nine

553
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: one one call, and it was the Suffolk County that

554
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: just did not want to be transparent at all, would

555
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: never release it so them releasing that shows that you know,

556
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: they're finally willing to be transparent, releasing that, releasing the

557
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: video of Megan Waterman, releasing all of these new.

558
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: Information describe what the Megan Waterman video is.

559
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: So, Meghan Waterman had come down from Maine. She was

560
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: working as a sex worker, and she was staying at

561
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: the Holiday and Express in Hopog right near a lot

562
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: of the where a lot of the Suffa County Police

563
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: headquarters are in things on that side of the island

564
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: at least, And there was video of what is considered

565
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: to be the last video of her just being in

566
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: the lobby, dealing with people in the lobby, you know, work,

567
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: looking at the front desk and talking with somebody at

568
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: the front desk. And it was just something that it

569
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: might have jogged somebody's memory if they would have released

570
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: it two or three weeks after she had gone missing,

571
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: and it took them twelve years to release it. So

572
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: it's those sort of things, and those are things that

573
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: we knew they had. We don't know what else they

574
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: have that they have not released yet.

575
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: Why do you think people are because again of the

576
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: word is true crime, emphasis on the word true What

577
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: is it about true crime that you think this has

578
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: become such an industry.

579
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: Well, evil is real, and I think for a while,

580
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: you know, before the Internet, before stories of real life experiences,

581
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: we're disseminated so massively and so broadly. We had fiction,

582
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: and we had horror movies, and I think we remained

583
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: detached from those, knowing it's fiction. And I think now

584
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: understanding the risk any of us are and I think

585
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: people are addicted to understanding, at least I'm addicted to

586
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: understanding cruelty as somebody with a healthy mind who had

587
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: never hurt anybody. I think people want to understand this

588
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 3: sliver of human nature that most of us don't possess

589
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: because it's so foreign from the norm and from empathy

590
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: and compassion and you know, the lives we all live.

591
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: I think understanding the driving force behind killing someone or

592
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: hurting someone with malice, I think is so far from

593
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: most of us, which is refreshing. But I think we're

594
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: all desperately trying to understand it because we're afraid, you know,

595
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: and there's this complete detachment from the type of person

596
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: who would want to do this. So that's sort of

597
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: where I think it comes from. You know, when you

598
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: boil it down.

599
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, before podcasts, before television, before newspapers, before books,

600
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: people would sit around the campfire and tell stories, and

601
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: a lot of those stories were about monsters, and a

602
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: lot of those stories were warning stories. You know, you

603
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: would say, don't go into those woods because there is

604
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: a monster in those woods. And you know, it might

605
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: have been a bear that attacked somebody and they didn't

606
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: know what it was, and then they'd called it a monster.

607
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: So it's ingrained in us. You know, these are kind

608
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: of these are warning stories, and then at first and

609
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: I think then they turn into almost sort of you know,

610
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: there's the puzzle aspect of it, and people like to

611
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: be able to try and figure something out. And eventually

612
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: the majority of people are good and they just want

613
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: to see justice.

614
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: Billy Jensen and Alexis linkletter. If you're enjoying this conversation,

615
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow here's the

616
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get

617
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back. I caught up with

618
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: Billy Jensen following the news of the arrest of Rex

619
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: Huerman and got the latest on the Long Island serial

620
00:31:41,720 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: killer case. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're a listening to

621
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Police had spent over a decade investigating

622
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach murders when a new police Commissioner, Rodney Harrison,

623
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: was sworn in in January twenty twenty two. Just a

624
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: few weeks later, he appointed a multi agency task force

625
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: to solve the serial killings, and things moved swiftly after that.

626
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: Phone records and DNA evidence led the authorities to Rex Huerman.

627
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: Thirteen years after the discovery of the victims. It seemed

628
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: the case had finally been cracked. I caught up with

629
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: Billy Jensen earlier this month to learn his thoughts on

630
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: this incredible development.

631
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: Rex Heuerman, who is from Massapeka Park, has been charged

632
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: with three counts of murder, the fourth is forthcoming, and

633
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: that those would all be the victims known as the

634
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: Gilgo four, which is for women who were found in

635
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: a close location, most of them wrapped in burro lap

636
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: along Ocean Parkway. Now it brings up a lot of questions. Now,

637
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: obviously the police department did a big victory lap saying

638
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: we caught this guy, and the new administration did do

639
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: a good job of catching this guy. But the first

640
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: question is is he responsible for the six other bodies

641
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: that were found along Ocean Parkway. Now, those six other bodies,

642
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: their torsos were found in Manorville, Long Island, and then

643
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: their body parts were found along Ocean Parkway during the

644
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: search after they found the gill Go four. And then

645
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: there's Peaches and the baby. Peaches is a African American

646
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: female whose body was found. Parts of her body were

647
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: found in Hempstead Lake State Park. Other parts were found

648
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: along Ocean Parkway along with her toddler baby and the

649
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: Asian male dressed in women's clothing and Fire Island Jane Doe.

650
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: So we don't know if he's responsible for any or

651
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: all of these other crimes. That's the first big question.

652
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: The second big question is has he killed other people

653
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: before or sitting or since the GILG four. And the

654
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: third big question is why did it take so long

655
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: for them to find him.

656
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: Why do you think it did Why?

657
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: Well, it was a combination of I think negligence and corruption.

658
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: The one thing that we learned and they kind of

659
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: skirt past it. So you're listening in the first press

660
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: conference and they say, Okay, well, how did you get

661
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: him and then everybody, you know, they sent out pictures

662
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: of this pizza crust and everyone's like, oh, he got

663
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: caught with pizza crust. No, he got verified. DNA was

664
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: verified with pizza crust.

665
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: You know.

666
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: They found DNA on one of the victims through a

667
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: hair They verified that through following him around and then

668
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: he discarded a pizza box with pizza crust. That's verification.

669
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: He didn't get caught that way. How he got caught

670
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: was they looked back in the files after they took

671
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: over the investigation twelve years later and they saw that

672
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: there was in the Amber Costello investigation who was one

673
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 2: of the victims. She used to roll some of her clients.

674
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: She was a sex worker and what she would do

675
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: is she would invite a client over to her house.

676
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: Her friend, acting as her boyfriend, would bust into the

677
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: house and then they would shake down the client for

678
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: money and then the client would leave. Now, two days

679
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 2: before she goes missing, they do this to a client

680
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: and her roommate, a guy named Dave Shaller, remembers that

681
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: the client was a big giant man, an ogre of

682
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 2: a man over six foot four, heavy set, and he

683
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: drove a Chevy Avalanche, dark color, first generation. This is

684
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: a truck that you don't normally see that often on

685
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: Long Island. So the police had the fact that she

686
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: had just you know, a woman who had gotten missing,

687
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: had just robbed basically a client of hers who was

688
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: over six foot four, over two hundred and fifty pounds,

689
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: that drove a first generation Chevy Avalanche that obviously was

690
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: around from the Long Island area. It wouldn't take too

691
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: long to figure out who this person was, and they

692
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: never did. They had all of the pieces, not to

693
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: mention the fact that if they were to look in

694
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: even more and say, well, we know that the killer

695
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: was delivering taunting calls to one of the victim's sisters,

696
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: Melissa and saying, you know, awful things to her sister.

697
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: They had traced those calls and knew those calls had

698
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: come from midtown Manhattan and Massapequa.

699
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: Right, and Hueman worked in the city.

700
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: Yes, he worked in midtown, and obviously he had a

701
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: house in Massapequa. He was an architect and he owned

702
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: his own architecture firm.

703
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: Where did he do his building? Where was his career

704
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: in the city or on the island?

705
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: Mainly in the city. It seems like listening to the

706
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: interview that he had done on YouTube, he paints himself

707
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: as sort of a fixer, like when things go wrong

708
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: with somebody else's building or something like that, he comes

709
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: in and fixes all the codes and things. So it's

710
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: not like he has a building up that's like the

711
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: Humorman building.

712
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: Now, what interview on YouTube are you referring to.

713
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: There's a video of him on YouTube which a lot

714
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: of people have been pointing to, of him being interviewed

715
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: about his architecture business, and he's very cocksure of himself.

716
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: Everyone's saying it's very creepy. You wouldn't really, you know,

717
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: I described it as it's South Shore Long Island bravado.

718
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: You know, he's sitting there kind of saying that he's

719
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: the best in the business and the things that he

720
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: does in the architecture world. And this obviously was before

721
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: he was arrested, but you can see his mannerisms and

722
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: the things that he was doing, so he was out there.

723
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: You mentioned a moment ago that they had this information

724
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: some time ago mm hm, and they didn't act on that.

725
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: What triggered them to want to go forward now with

726
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: information they had quite some time ago.

727
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: What triggered them was there was a new administration and

728
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: it was pretty telling and pretty odd that when the

729
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: new administration comes in in a county with millions of

730
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: people and they say one of the first things they

731
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: say is that this is one of our top priorities.

732
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 2: You know, a group of murders from a dozen years ago.

733
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: It shows that the heat was on them from the media,

734
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 2: from podcasts like ours, and they said that they really

735
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: wanted to solve this thing. They got the name as

736
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: they were going through the old files within six weeks.

737
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: So they started a year and a half ago, they

738
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: got the name within six weeks. They were able to

739
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: then use the DNA and everything like that. Now, you know,

740
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: the initial investigation before Burke took over, they skipped over this.

741
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: They didn't investigated more of this thing about the Chevy

742
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: avalanche and the ogre of a man. And then obviously

743
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: when Burke took over, he shut down the investigation for

744
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 2: the most part.

745
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: So I guess that's the better question, not what led

746
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: them to do it? Now, what was it that caused

747
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: them not to do it before? Why do you think

748
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: they didn't do it before?

749
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: You know, I've talked with the before this. I talked

750
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 2: with the detectives, and they certainly seemed like good guys,

751
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: the detectives that were on it before Burke took over,

752
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: and they seemed like they really wanted to solve the case.

753
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: They had a year to solve it before Burke took over,

754
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: but they just you know, didn't follow up on this

755
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: lead as closely as they should have. And it seems like,

756
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: you know, hindsight's always going to be twenty twenty, but

757
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: it seems like it was a really damn good lead

758
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: when they didn't have many good leads. Now when you've

759
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: got Burke taking over, we know that Burke shut down

760
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: the investigation, kicked the FBI out because he didn't want

761
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: the FED sniffing around his dirty laundry. And we know

762
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 2: his attitude towards women and his attitude towards sex workers

763
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: in particular wasn't very high, so he did not make

764
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: this a priority. And we didn't hear really anything from

765
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: Burke's administration for a really long time about this case,

766
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: so you know, he really did just shovel it under

767
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: the rug, and then the administrations that followed they just

768
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: didn't put the pieces together but you know, you got

769
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: to give kudos to Ray Tierney and Rodney Harrison. They

770
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 2: came in and then within six weeks they were able

771
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: to get this name. You know, the one person that

772
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 2: we haven't heard from really who should be doing a

773
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: victory lap is Steve Blone, and Blone hasn't been because

774
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: Bologne was the one that hired Burke in the first place,

775
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: and Bologne had sat there as this case hadn't been

776
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: solved for a dozen years. And Blogne, for people that

777
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: aren't in New York, Blogne is the chief executive of

778
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: Suffolk County who hired Burke and got this whole thing rolling.

779
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: When we listened to your interview, and at the time

780
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: we're doing the interview, I'll let you characterize the investigation

781
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: back then. And am I mistaken that it did imply

782
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: that Burke himself was a very strong suspect. Is that

783
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: fair to say.

784
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: Burke was a interesting suspect. I wouldn't say he was

785
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: a strong suspect. I don't think they had any strong

786
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: suspects at the time. But the fact that he was

787
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: so close to the investigation and he shut it down,

788
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: coupled with the fact that we were getting all of

789
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: these stories about him being violent and having relationships with

790
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: sex workers and just a lot of bad things about

791
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: this guy that you normally don't see swirling around a

792
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: high profile serial killer investigation.

793
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: And with the chief of Police of Suffolk County exactly.

794
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what we wanted to do, you know, in

795
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: Suffolk County for people that might not know, it's a

796
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: dead end geographically, so you know, there's no like, no

797
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 2: one never passes through Suffolk County or anything. You're going

798
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: to Suffer County, You're going to Suffolk County, and it

799
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 2: very much can be set up like a little fiefdom.

800
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: And that's what Burke did. And Burke had this little

801
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: cadre of people that he was able to control. He was,

802
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, under the wing of the DA and he

803
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 2: really was untouchable and he was able to do whatever

804
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 2: he wants. So we didn't know anything else that he

805
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: was doing. But we do know that the FEDS, because

806
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: he did go to jail for violating the civil rights

807
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 2: of Chris Loebe. We should hope that the FEDS looked

808
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: at him very closely. I don't know if they looked

809
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: at him particularly for the murders, but he looked like

810
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 2: he was definitely somebody to throw in the ring of

811
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 2: suspects or persons of interest, especially because that he closed

812
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: down the investigation. Why would you do that?

813
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: For me? Having done the interview with you a year

814
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: ago and then seeing the emergence of this Humerorman thing.

815
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: Was Humerman's name? Was it discussed a while ago? Was

816
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: he a suspect a well? Was his name pulled out

817
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: of nowhere lately to indict him? What was their knowledge

818
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: or their suspicion of Humorman years ago? Was there any

819
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: was he even being discussed as a suspect publicly? Now?

820
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: Nobody knew the name Heureman at all? Somebody had him

821
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: at some point, because it sounds like twelve years ago

822
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: they did get the name, or at least you know

823
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: what we still don't know in one of the questions

824
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: that I would like to know is that, yes, they

825
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: had the Chevy Avalanche, they had the description, they knew

826
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: he was from Massapequa. Did they narrow it down at

827
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: that point and get the name and just not do

828
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: anything with it? Were not sure, you know? And who

829
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: knows if they'll ever say that? Now feel in for

830
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: me if you will.

831
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 1: I mean regardless of the fact that many of these

832
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: women involved that were victims in this case were sex workers.

833
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: Describe to the extent that it exists, their families or

834
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: friends who were exhorting law enforcement and lobbying law enforcement

835
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: on their behalf to find the answers to these killings.

836
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: Did they have family or friends or anyone loved ones

837
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: who were trying to push the police to solve this case.

838
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 2: They did, Yeah, And the most vocal was Shannon Gilbert's mother.

839
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: And Shannon Gilbert was the one that kicked off the investigation,

840
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 2: who had the date in Oak Beach with someone and

841
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: then she had gone missing. She's the one that did

842
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 2: the nine to one one call. Her body was eventually found,

843
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: you know, in the marshes. She's the reason why law

844
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: enforcement started looking at Ocean Parkway to begin with. Her

845
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: family was very vocal, and then the families of the

846
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: other victims were very vocal and really did stay on

847
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: this case continually. You know, You've got movies of the

848
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: week about them and everything, and it really is a

849
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: test meant that these women, they were loved.

850
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: Now, I understand that Hueman contacted some of these families

851
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: and harassed them and taunted them, Is that true.

852
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: Yes, they established he had called one of the victims one,

853
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: and I think this was sort of a missed opportunity.

854
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: He was using burner phones, and with the technology back then,

855
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: who knows if they were able to trace him. But

856
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: he did buy apparently a different burner phone for each victim,

857
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: so he was using different numbers. But he contacted one

858
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 2: of the victim's sisters and taunted her and said, I

859
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 2: killed your sister. You want to know what I did

860
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: to her? He called her a half breed and asked

861
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 2: are you a half breed like your sister? Which we

862
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: thought was a clue, like who you You know, that's

863
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: definitely a term, a disgusting term that somebody older might use.

864
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: It's not really used by younger people now. And he

865
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 2: has a very distinctive voice when you listen to him,

866
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: it's a Long Island south Shore, Long Island accent, but

867
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: it's also got a lot of bubbliness to it. And yeah,

868
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: he was doing that. He also called the victim's boyfriend

869
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 2: as well, So he was doing these things to get

870
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: his jolly's off, and he was doing it from midtown Manhattan,

871
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: and he was also doing it for Massapeak very well

872
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: could have been doing it from his home right.

873
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: What comments have the supporters of these victims, as we

874
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: discussed family and friends and so forth, what comments have

875
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 1: they made in the wake of human's arrest.

876
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 2: The ones that have talked, not a lot of them

877
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: have talked. Obviously, they're finally happy that the arrest has

878
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 2: been made, and that's pretty much it. They haven't really

879
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: gotten into anything more. There was a press conference yesterday

880
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: where not really that much was said, just talking about

881
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: how many pages of things that they have against him.

882
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: You know, they really did. This was a very strange

883
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 2: case to catch a serial killer because they once they

884
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: got his name, and once they realized through the pizza

885
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: crust that it was him, you know, they set up

886
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: a grand jury. So the grand jury was subpoenaing people.

887
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: So the people on that grand jury had to keep

888
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: tight and not tell anybody that they had found the

889
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: goat Long Island serial killer, and they were subpoening a

890
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: bunch of things. So they eventually had a lot of

891
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: information and a lot of things leading to him. But

892
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: the victims of the families, they're obviously just relieved that

893
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: he's been caught. And then they're waiting for the trial

894
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: because unlike the most recent big serial killer case would

895
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: have been Golden State killer of a case where it

896
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 2: had been a cold case for a long time, this

897
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 2: guy's pleading innocent, so it looks like it will go

898
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: to trial.

899
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: Now, Hueman doesn't necessarily account for all the victims, and

900
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: you can't assume that everybody that's there was killed by Hueman.

901
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: But when you look back on it now, do you

902
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: have a different take on why Burke slowed down and

903
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: why he stole the investigation?

904
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: No, I think my take is still the same. I

905
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: think the take is that he could and he didn't

906
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: want fed's looking into anything else that he's done. We

907
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: knew he was a bad guy. We knew he liked

908
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: to live his life within pu unity and do whatever

909
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: that he wanted, and he was breaking laws. So why

910
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: have the FEDS sniffing around things that he's doing. You know,

911
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: they were a danger to him, he might say, because

912
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: he's never spoken about this before and he's walking around now.

913
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 2: He might say that it was ubrous on his part.

914
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: You know, he felt that his key had the right

915
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: guys in order to solve it. But obviously he.

916
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 1: Didn't Huberman has been charged with four murders.

917
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 2: Three out of the four, three out of I think

918
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to get to nail down for

919
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 2: the fourth one, Maureen. They haven't been able to nail

920
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: down probably physical evidence from him, and there is talk

921
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: that they were waiting even longer so they can get

922
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: the fourth but they felt that he was a possible

923
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: danger to society and they had to rush it. This

924
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: is a guy also, and this is another thing that

925
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: needs to be noted. He was still seeing sex workers

926
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: up until the time that he was arrested. And that's

927
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: another question that I think a lot of people will have.

928
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: You know, one of the big questions is has he

929
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: killed since the gil Go four and if he has

930
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: killed And obviously if they had all of that information

931
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: with the truck and the size and the mess a

932
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: peak when everything to be able to zero in on him,

933
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: that's a big, big problem for the Suffolk County Police Department.

934
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: But also, you know, in between when they identified him

935
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: and when they arrested him, how are they making sure

936
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: that the people that he was going out with and

937
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: the women that he was seeing were going to be safe.

938
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: I mean, did they have him on surveillance twenty four

939
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: to seven. These are questions that we don't know.

940
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: He's been charged. Did he plead not guilty to the guilty? Yeah?

941
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: And where is he now? Is he's not on bail?

942
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: Is he no?

943
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, he's in a riverhead at the jail.

944
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: In the interval since we first spoke to a year ago,

945
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: what else have you noted about this case or other cases?

946
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: Has this become a kind of a I don't want

947
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: to say vocation for you, let alone passion for you,

948
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: But do you find yourself looking into other serial killer

949
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,240
Speaker 1: cases as well?

950
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, not for unraveled. I have a book

951
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: coming out called Killers amidst Killers, which is there's a

952
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 2: type of serial killer now that is really operating under

953
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 2: the cloak of the opioid epidemic. How So, because you

954
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: have a lot of these bodies of women that are

955
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: on the fringes of society that are showing up that

956
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: might not have a actual cause of death that they

957
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: can find because the bodies are so decomposed or they're

958
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: skeletal that they've actually been murdered and they just chalk

959
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: it off as being an overdose. But you've got these

960
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: men that are killing them. This started with these two

961
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: best friends that were found murdered in Columbus, Ohio in

962
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and I just started working this case and

963
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: I found eighteen women who had either gone missing or

964
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: murdered in these small towns in Ohio, and then I

965
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: started looking all across the country. Recently, there was you know,

966
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: as early as three weeks ago and were these women

967
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: that were going missing and murdered in the Portland area.

968
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people were saying, oh,

969
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: they're just overdoses or whatever. But it turns out they

970
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: have a guy now that is responsible, or at least

971
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: they think is responsible as a person of interest for

972
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 2: for their murders. This is happening across the country. So

973
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 2: we've got these bad guys, and we also have this

974
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: fentanyl crisis, and this is where we're going to be

975
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: seeing a lot more of serial killers that fly under

976
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 2: the radar. I mean, this guy is being looked at

977
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: for four murders that are so recent, but you know,

978
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 2: nobody's talking about him because it didn't get the same

979
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 2: press as say the Longnown serial killer case. So those

980
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: are the things that I'm looking at now.

981
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: There's a new administration in Suffolk County. Can you describe

982
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: who that is and do you think this means the

983
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: end of that kind of Suffolk County Police Department corruption

984
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: that's become familiar to us.

985
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: You'd like to think. So, you know, they got a

986
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: guy named Rodney Harrison to run the police department. He's

987
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: from the city, so he didn't come up through the

988
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: ranks of Suffolk County. And you know, obviously he got

989
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 2: this big win right away. But there's also a lot

990
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: of other problems in Suffolk County obviously, so but with

991
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: him and the DA ray tyranny, they definitely have a

992
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 2: big win under their belt. Now, Steve Balone, who is

993
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: the county executive, who was the one that you know,

994
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: hired Burke and was really you know, as much as

995
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: he likes to separate himself from the old Guard, he

996
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: really is representative of the old Guard. He is going

997
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: to turn out and we'll see who's going to be

998
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 2: actually running Suffolk County and see if there's a way

999
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: that you know, we can get a gleanback on Suffo

1000
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,959
Speaker 2: County that has been lost for a really long time.

1001
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: Massive peak with such a small I mean it's a big,

1002
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: small town. I grew up there my whole life. My

1003
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: father taught school there. I lived there the all eighteen

1004
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: years of my life before I left to go to

1005
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: college and so forth. And you wonder have his neighbors

1006
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: made any comments, I mean the cliche of you know,

1007
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: he was a quiet man, you know. Yeah, have his

1008
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: neighbors made any comments about his comings and goings or his.

1009
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: Demeanor, you know a little bit, you know. He They've

1010
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: said that he was a regular guy. One said that

1011
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 2: he was a little creepy.

1012
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: You know.

1013
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 2: When you originally contacted me, knowing that you were from

1014
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: the South Shore, I thought you might have a tip

1015
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: where there's this Alec Baldwin, you know, contact me. I

1016
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 2: was like, maybe as a tip. But I think a

1017
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: lot of them were surprised when they learned that he

1018
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 2: was an architect because the house was a little ramshackly.

1019
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 2: And there's talk now that the town is going to

1020
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: purchase the house because it has become such a tourist

1021
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 2: trap of people going to look.

1022
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: At it like the Amityville horror.

1023
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the Amityville horror exactly.

1024
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: People drove by that house and the owners of the house.

1025
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: I once had this experience where friends of mine from

1026
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: out of town. We were in that area to go

1027
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: to the movies or go to the bowling alley or

1028
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: something in Amityville, which was the town next to Massapequa,

1029
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: and we drove by that house and the people on

1030
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: the front stopyel take a picture. They screamed at us. Yeah.

1031
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: Long Island has produced a lot of serial killers. You know.

1032
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: Obviously Joel Rifkin is considered the one that has the

1033
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 2: largest amount of victim but you've got Robert Schulman. Both

1034
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: of them went to the same school district, My school

1035
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: districts Meadow. You know, you've got everything from Colin Ferguson

1036
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 2: and the Long Island Railroad massacre, this guy Bittrolf, who

1037
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: had killed women in the Manorville area that a lot

1038
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: of people were looking at and probably still looking at

1039
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 2: for some of the other victims for Long Island serial killer.

1040
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 2: There's a lot of bad people on Long Island, and

1041
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: it's just, you know, the crime's on Long.

1042
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: Island's a heavy charge there.

1043
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 2: There is you know what, when you get a lot

1044
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 2: of people, you.

1045
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: Know, there's a lot of nice people here too, but.

1046
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: Oh, there's certainly a lot of nice people as well.

1047
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's like Long Island is an island,

1048
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: and I feel like there's an energy on an island.

1049
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: This is an island, and you come on to an

1050
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: island and the energy field is a little bit different

1051
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: and people get a little stranger. Maybe I really don't know.

1052
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: I'm not qualified to characterize the population of Long Island itself,

1053
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: but I'm glad that they have an arrest that would

1054
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: even incrementally account for four of these murders, or three

1055
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: right now and possibly four. My best to you, Billy,

1056
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: and thank you so much. Good luck with your book

1057
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: of course, thank you so much. My thanks to Billy

1058
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: Jensen and Alexis Linkletter. This episode was recorded at CDM

1059
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: Studios in New York City and at Monk Music Studios

1060
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: in Easthampton, Long Island. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach

1061
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: MacNeice and Maureen Hoben. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our

1062
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's

1063
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.