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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. So we finally have

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Speaker 1: an answer Gabby Petito's cause of death. We've been waiting

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Speaker 1: and finally that day has arrived. The Corner out in

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Speaker 1: Wyoming as let us peek inside what they found. At

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Speaker 1: least in the early moments of the investigation. Still more

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Speaker 1: to be determined, but today we want to explore those

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Speaker 1: findings and do a deep dive into what brought about

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Speaker 1: the death of Gabby Petito. I'm Joe Scott Morgan and

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Speaker 1: this is Body Backs. Joining me today is Jackie Howard,

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what

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Speaker 1: what do we know about the case at this point, Joe,

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, we do know that Gabby Pictito was

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Speaker 1: strangled to death. The corner came out and made his

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Speaker 1: announcement yesterday, and then we found out more information last night.

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Speaker 1: The coroner released a little more information during an interview

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Speaker 1: and he said that it was manual strangulation with throttling.

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Speaker 1: And I'll have to tell you a thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait till Joe Scott Morgan can explain to

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Speaker 1: me what throttling is. What does that mean? Joe This

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Speaker 1: puts this at a completely different level, Jackie. You know

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Speaker 1: we early on when we first got the information that

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Speaker 1: it was a strangulation death, that that opens up the

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Speaker 1: door to well, there's a variety of different types of strangulation.

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Speaker 1: You've you've got literature strangulation, You've got something that's called

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Speaker 1: mechanical strangulation, and those two can be confused sometimes, and

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Speaker 1: then you have this area that's called throttling. And throttling

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Speaker 1: actually means, Jackie, that an individual takes their bare hands

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Speaker 1: and generally it's both hands, places them around the neck

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Speaker 1: and then begins to squeeze. That that's where the manual

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Speaker 1: comes in. That means that there's no other object involved,

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Speaker 1: no other tool. You think about a literature strangulation where

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Speaker 1: you could use a belt or scarf, or a piece

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Speaker 1: of rope or even a wire, but not in this case.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the corner saw. And the forensic pathologists

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Speaker 1: saw it at the autopsy. They saw evidence that someone

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Speaker 1: had literally taken their hands and wrapped them around Gabby

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Speaker 1: Potito's neck and squeezed and literally squeezed the life out

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Speaker 1: of her little body. You know, I think that most

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Speaker 1: people believe that with decomposition she had been down for

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Speaker 1: I don't know the corner said yesterday in his presser,

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Speaker 1: you know, three to four weeks, and he wouldn't put

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Speaker 1: a finer point on that. I think that most people

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Speaker 1: think would decomposition, that we're not gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: find any evidence at autopsy of any kind of trauma,

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Speaker 1: and that that's just not true. Because if if you

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Speaker 1: think about this, everybody at home, I want you to

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Speaker 1: look at the surface area of the palms of your hands,

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Speaker 1: just for a second, look at them and consider them.

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Speaker 1: Think about squeezing an orange or an apple in your hands,

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Speaker 1: and how much force you can exert. Now, you take

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Speaker 1: both hands and you place them over that orange or

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Speaker 1: that apple, and you squeeze, and that compression that's taking

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Speaker 1: place there, it's going to in cases of apples, if

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Speaker 1: you do that, for instance, it's gonna leave a bruise

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Speaker 1: is and it's going to soften that surface. You can

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Speaker 1: kind of take that and apply that to the human body.

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Speaker 1: As pressure is directly applied with both hands, little areas

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Speaker 1: of hemorrhage begin. And we're not just talking innocuous little

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Speaker 1: areas like patiki pen prick. We're talking about dime sized,

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Speaker 1: quarter size, and then they begin to expand, and as

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Speaker 1: that pressure continues, more vessels burst. And if you think

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Speaker 1: about the underlying soft tissue, the muscle tissue, everything that

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Speaker 1: in dwells that neck, that hemorrhage expands and begins to

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Speaker 1: envelope that area, and you can in some cases you

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Speaker 1: can actually see external markings of fingers on people's throats,

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Speaker 1: and that extends even below the surface. You can actually

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Speaker 1: make out the specific areas of hemorrhage. The damage would

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Speaker 1: have been extensive, Jackie. Extensive. So Joe, that tells me,

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Speaker 1: if I can be logical for just a second, that

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Speaker 1: tells me that Gabby's body was not skeletonized so that

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Speaker 1: there was enough tissue left for the corner to be

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Speaker 1: able to see what you're talking about, Jackie, that that's

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Speaker 1: a fantastic point. And let's step back, just for a second,

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Speaker 1: think about what happened that day that the autopsy was done.

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Speaker 1: That afternoon, the corner came out and made a statement

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Speaker 1: about the manner of death. Remember we were talking about

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Speaker 1: the manner of death, and I've talked about how there

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Speaker 1: are five and they came out specifically that day without

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Speaker 1: any further testing and said, we've got a manner. We've

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Speaker 1: got a manner in this case, and we're calling it homicide.

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Speaker 1: And just so our listeners understand, and it's purest sense.

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Speaker 1: When you define that word homicide, it literally translates into

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Speaker 1: death at the hands of another. It's very clinical, it's

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Speaker 1: very straightforward. So when they did her post mortem examination,

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Speaker 1: they saw something in that autopsy room, they saw something

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Speaker 1: at the table as they surrounded her body, as they

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Speaker 1: began to thoroughly examine her body, they saw extensive trauma.

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Speaker 1: It would be so glaring because you know, we have

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Speaker 1: to factor in this idea of decomposition. So even though

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Speaker 1: she had been down three or four weeks, when they

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Speaker 1: began to examine what remained of Gabby, it was so striking,

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Speaker 1: it was so absolutely striking that they could definitively walk

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Speaker 1: out of that room and say that the manner of

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Speaker 1: death was homicide. Now you say, well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of counterintuitive to what we do in medical

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Speaker 1: legal death investigation because many times we'll have a cause

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Speaker 1: of death, you know, like gunshot wound for instance, and

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Speaker 1: we don't have a manner because they don't know if

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Speaker 1: it was accidental discharge. They don't know if it was

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Speaker 1: a homicidal event. They don't know if it was suicide

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Speaker 1: or maybe even undetermined. It happened in reverse in this case,

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Speaker 1: and that's what from a medical legal forensic standpoint, what

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Speaker 1: makes this so unique. They were actually able to say

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Speaker 1: that the manner was in fact homicide. And now they've

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Speaker 1: reached the point through all of their analysis and consultations

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Speaker 1: when they came up with this determination that this was

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Speaker 1: a manual strangulation, and not just a manual strangulation, but

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Speaker 1: a throttling that's very specific. That means that at this

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Speaker 1: point they have ruled out things like a literature strangulation

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Speaker 1: involving a rope, because if we see cases where individuals

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Speaker 1: are strangled with a rope, it leaves a deep furrow

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Speaker 1: externally on the neck, it leaves a very specific underlying

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Speaker 1: hemorrhage that's linear. That's not what they saw. They saw

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Speaker 1: massive hemorrhage in this area underlying where they knew or

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Speaker 1: at least they're putting forward, uh the idea underlying the

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Speaker 1: area where the hands would have actually made contacts. So

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Speaker 1: they had specific identifying information and evidence at that autopsy

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Speaker 1: to name this specifically as a manual strangulation via throttling.

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Speaker 1: I'm back here with Jackie Howard and Uh. Jackie and

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Speaker 1: I are discussing this idea of of manual strangulation and

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Speaker 1: and what the corner and the forensic pathologists actually found

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Speaker 1: at autopsy. Joe, you were talking about the corner coming

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Speaker 1: out and making his his determination that it was homicide

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Speaker 1: on the day of the autopsy. The corner came out quickly,

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Speaker 1: so he saw what you've been explaining to us very quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, he did, uh. And and just I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've used the analogy. It's almost metaphorically like he

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Speaker 1: sprinted to the microphone, you know, to make that as

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Speaker 1: as you well know, UH, people in my line of

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Speaker 1: work and law enforcement, we try to avoid microphones at

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Speaker 1: all costs. In this particular, UH context, he sent out

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Speaker 1: a specific ruling in this case and was very quick

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Speaker 1: about it. And I think there's a lot that goes

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Speaker 1: into this. But keep in mind, this is an ongoing

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Speaker 1: criminal investigation. You've got a person of interest that's at

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Speaker 1: large essentially, and they wanted to frame this early on

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Speaker 1: and say that this is in fact a homicide. We

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Speaker 1: need to be aware this situation is urgent. There's no

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Speaker 1: uh doubt, there's no equivocation here. This is a homicidal event,

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Speaker 1: and we need to begin to put the pieces together,

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Speaker 1: first off, so that we can understand what happened to Gabby,

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Speaker 1: but also so that we can enforce the urgency as

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Speaker 1: it applies to tracking down Brian Laundry and asking him

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Speaker 1: some very specific questions about what they're finding at the

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Speaker 1: autopsy and forensically you're explaining this about the throttling, but

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Speaker 1: describe for me, Joe, what it could have been. Obviously

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Speaker 1: we don't know exactly when weren't in the autopsy room,

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Speaker 1: but what could it have been that he saw what

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Speaker 1: he have seen actual finger marks, if there was tissue,

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Speaker 1: wasn't bruising, what would he have seen to say this

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Speaker 1: is throttling? You know, you can see you can see

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Speaker 1: in some cases relative to contusions, which is just a

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Speaker 1: fancy ten dollar word from Burbo's you can actually see

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Speaker 1: patterns that resemble you know, finger marks are handprints. Can

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Speaker 1: you say definitively that uh, you know, like, would you

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Speaker 1: like to say one scientific certainty on you know, on

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Speaker 1: the stand that this is in fact a fingerprint or

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Speaker 1: a hand marking it's tied direct No, you can't say that,

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Speaker 1: but you can say that it looks very very similar.

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Speaker 1: You can say it's consistent with which is a term

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Speaker 1: that you used a lot in forensic science, as that

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Speaker 1: applies to the courts. Now some of the other things

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Speaker 1: that they would have noticed at all topsy We can't

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Speaker 1: just focus mainly on the underlying hemorrhage, which you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know because he hasn't said anything. It could

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Speaker 1: be compromised to a certain degree by decomposition. But here's

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Speaker 1: something that probably is not when we begin to think

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Speaker 1: about this um the cartilaginous bodies of the of what's

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Speaker 1: commonly known what the cartilaginous bodies, which is what makes

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Speaker 1: up our windpipe. Essentially that that underlying area in our

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Speaker 1: trachea that gives it firmness. Everybody can feel this at home.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that with throttling. With throttling, not only

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Speaker 1: do you create hemorrhage around that area, there's a crushing

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Speaker 1: event that takes place. And even though cartilage is soft,

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Speaker 1: it's softer certainly than bone. Cartilage will fracture and it

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Speaker 1: will have its own little areas of hemorrhage, and that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that they would look look forward.

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Speaker 1: We've heard about people having their quote unquote windpipe crushed.

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Speaker 1: That I could be one of the things they're looking for.

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Speaker 1: And also that that tiny little bone that everybody likes

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Speaker 1: to talk about, Jackie, and that of course is the

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Speaker 1: high oid it. You know, it sits way way up

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Speaker 1: in the neck Jackie, I mean way up, and it's

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Speaker 1: a anatomical oddity and the rest of the human body

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Speaker 1: because the highoid bone is actually the only bone that

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Speaker 1: is not articulated or connected to another bone in the

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Speaker 1: human body. It's sole purpose. It's sole purpose is to

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Speaker 1: anchor the tongue. It holds the tongue in place. And

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Speaker 1: it's if folks at home will just think about a horseshoe, Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how it's shaped. And you can see

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Speaker 1: hemorrhage in that area. You can see fractures in that

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Speaker 1: in that area, and because it's so hard to get to,

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Speaker 1: you rarely see it associated with anything other than manual strangulation.

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Speaker 1: That means direct pressure applied and it's of antually fractured

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Speaker 1: or cracked, and that would be something that would not

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Speaker 1: compromise it wouldn't compromise that manifestation is the tissue around it.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about bone, so it's not going to be

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Speaker 1: compromised by decomposition or the breakdown of soft tissue. That's

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Speaker 1: not the case. It will remain present, it will remain visible.

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Speaker 1: It will remain in a position where it can be examined,

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Speaker 1: not just in place or like we fancy word we

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Speaker 1: say in forensic pathology in sight to which means in place.

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Speaker 1: But it can be removed and it can be examined

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Speaker 1: by holding it in the hand. It can be examined microscopically, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: And it can also and this is key, can also

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Speaker 1: be retained. So if you find a fractured hioid, the

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Speaker 1: practice generally is to take it out, you put it

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Speaker 1: in preservative, and you save it. And you know what

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Speaker 1: they do with that. I've actually seen this happen in court.

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Speaker 1: They'll take an intact hyoid and they will physically bring

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Speaker 1: that into the courtroom and present it as evidence. And boy,

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Speaker 1: you talk about something powerful, because that's the essence of

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Speaker 1: the individual, that's that's part of their body. And if

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Speaker 1: that's brought into a courtroom and they have a fractured highoid.

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Speaker 1: That's something that they can demonstrate in something the jury

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Speaker 1: can really lash onto. So let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the actual act of strangulation. Most people do not know,

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Speaker 1: and of course I don't know either, thankfully, how much

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Speaker 1: actual pressure it takes to strangle someone, how long it

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Speaker 1: takes to strangle someone. Walk us through this, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would have been happening at that time that Gabby

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Speaker 1: was dying. Oh my gosh, it's a complete and total

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Speaker 1: horror show, is what it comes down to. And with

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Speaker 1: manual strangulation and specifically throttling. Let's kind of paint a

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Speaker 1: picture here in kind of classic context when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. The

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Speaker 1: victim certainly can be standing, okay, but if we think

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Speaker 1: about the interior of that van, it's impossible to stand

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Speaker 1: in that van for any protracted period of time. Generally,

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Speaker 1: what happens is that a perpetrator will get on top

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Speaker 1: of an individual. Now they can do this from the

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Speaker 1: rear or from the front, but classically you think about

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Speaker 1: the front. And here's here's the really chilling dynamic about this.

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Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this is a very personal event.

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Speaker 1: This is intimate. This is as intimate as it can

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Speaker 1: get in homicide. When an individual is being throttled, in

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Speaker 1: many cases, they are staring. They are staring the perpetrator,

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Speaker 1: their killer in the eye. And just let that sink

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Speaker 1: in just for a second, because when you think about

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Speaker 1: the relationship between the two in a physical sense, where

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Speaker 1: the individual is eye to eye with this person, their life,

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Speaker 1: the victim's life is slowly being diminished. All of the

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Speaker 1: air supply is being cut off, the blood supply is

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Speaker 1: being cut off, because not only are you potentially crushing

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Speaker 1: the windpipe, which really doesn't take that many pounds of pressure,

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Speaker 1: particularly in someone as diminutive and small and tiny as Gabby,

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Speaker 1: you're also clamping down on these major vessels that run

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Speaker 1: through the neck. And all of us have heard about

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Speaker 1: these vessels. We've got the juggler vein, which is the

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Speaker 1: return from the brain of blood, and we've also got

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Speaker 1: the carrot it which is taking oxygen eated blood to

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Speaker 1: the brain. Remember the brain, the head is the most

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Speaker 1: vascular area in the body. What that means is is

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Speaker 1: that that area the body requires more oxygenated blood than

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Speaker 1: probably any other area of the human body. Because the

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Speaker 1: brain just eats energy, it requires a tremendous amount of oxygen.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just about breaking the the the cartilage

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Speaker 1: in the neck. It's not about fracturing the high woid

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Speaker 1: in and of itself. It's not about specifically leaving hemorrhage

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Speaker 1: behind in the soft tissues. It's also has to do

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Speaker 1: with a deprivation of oxygen. That's the real killer here,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you can have deprivation of oxygen.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows that. You know, every kid on the planet

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Speaker 1: has tried to hold their breath until they pass out, right,

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Speaker 1: So explain to me that difference. I mean, if she

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Speaker 1: passed out and someone whoever was strangling her let go,

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Speaker 1: would she automatically start breathing or do you have to

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Speaker 1: hold someone? You know? I mean, how long is this process?

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Speaker 1: Some people have opined or or put out the opinion

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Speaker 1: that it can take up to five minutes in order

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Speaker 1: to manually strangle somebody. But I gotta tell you, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: with a manual strangulation you've got we would assume a

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Speaker 1: male perpetrator, potentially powerful, big hands, hovering over a very

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Speaker 1: diminutive young lady who is let's let's face. It is

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Speaker 1: slight and build a kind of a fragile, uh, very

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Speaker 1: tiny neck. It really doesn't take that long. There's not

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Speaker 1: that It's not like a big body builder that might

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Speaker 1: have a gigantic neck where you have to make your

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Speaker 1: way through a lot of soft tissue. If you look

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Speaker 1: at those images of Gabby and she's so beautiful, you know,

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Speaker 1: you take a look at her and she's smiling. I

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Speaker 1: want people from now on to pay attention to her neck,

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Speaker 1: to take a look at it and see how delicate

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Speaker 1: it is. And there's not much to it. It's supporting

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Speaker 1: her her head, you know, and it it just kind

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Speaker 1: of rises up off of her shoulders and it's very

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Speaker 1: very slight and bill so it would not have taken

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of pressure apply it externally in order

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Speaker 1: to diminish her her blood supply which is carrying oxygen,

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Speaker 1: and also her ability to uptake oxygen. That means inhalate

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Speaker 1: where we take in a breath, and then excelate where

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Speaker 1: we're forcing breath out. All of these processes are interconnected, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: It's part of our metabolism. It's how we work. So

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Speaker 1: when you introduce a throttling event, into this, you completely

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Speaker 1: disrupt everything that's going on with her ability to thrive

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Speaker 1: and live. You're you're shutting down her lungs, you're shutting

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Speaker 1: down her blood flow, and also you're shutting down her

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Speaker 1: brain's ability to function in a normal matter. All those

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Speaker 1: little synapses that are firing all of the time, they're

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Speaker 1: sending messages throughout the body, whether it's stuff that is conscious,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe looking in a particular direction, moving our hands,

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Speaker 1: or when it comes down to what's called our primal

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Speaker 1: brain are autonomic nervous system, which is actually telling without

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Speaker 1: us knowing, is telling our heart to beat and our

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Speaker 1: lungs to take up oxygen that's being compromised. So all

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Speaker 1: of that is essentially leaving her body during this period

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Speaker 1: of time, and it really paints a chilling picture. She

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Speaker 1: I don't think that she had a chance in this

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Speaker 1: particular case. You know, we're talking about the deprivation of oxygen.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about manual strangulation in the case of Gabby Petito.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's more to consider here, isn't there? Jackie?

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Speaker 1: There is, Joe, and I'm so glad that you brought

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Speaker 1: that up. You mentioned early on that in photos that

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Speaker 1: you saw of Gabby when she was sand surfing, bruising

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Speaker 1: on her back. Then we have the incident in Moab

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Speaker 1: where um Gabby and was in Brian were stopped by

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Speaker 1: the police and she mentioned that he grabbed her face

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Speaker 1: and the officer asked her about a scratch on her

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Speaker 1: face and some bruising on her shoulder. Gaby said she

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Speaker 1: didn't really know. She didn't mention any type of physical

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Speaker 1: abuse by Brian, But you noticed that. So what would

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Speaker 1: the autopsy or the corner have been able to see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's let's back up one second, Jackie, you gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you that. Remember what that nine eleven caller said. That

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Speaker 1: individual said, there's a man out here in the street

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Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrase, and there's a man out here in

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Speaker 1: the street that is slapping that is slapping a young woman. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is in broad daylight. Think about think about what

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Speaker 1: that means. That means that an individual has the gall

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Speaker 1: two in public, in the light of day, in plain

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Speaker 1: view to beat up a little girl. That's what it

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Speaker 1: comes down to. And so as an investigator, what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to begin to think about is is there some

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Speaker 1: kind of evidence of ongoing abuse and and you know,

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Speaker 1: you're very right. You know, when I saw those those

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Speaker 1: screenshots of them sand surfing out there in Colorado, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I noticed, and I can't

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Speaker 1: take full credit for this because somebody had pointed it

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Speaker 1: out to me, but I began to take a look

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Speaker 1: at that, and you can see on the exposed surface

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Speaker 1: of her right shoulder that there appears to be some

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Speaker 1: kind of uh, faint demarcation right there that is about

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Speaker 1: I don't know. To me, it looked like it was

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Speaker 1: about the size of a quarter. And they're multiple of

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Speaker 1: these multiple So as an investigator, I have to ask

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Speaker 1: this question, is that evidence that she has been contacted

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Speaker 1: or struck by something, or is there evidence that maybe

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Speaker 1: her equilibrium wasn't that great and she had fallen over

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Speaker 1: and landed on her shoulders. So at the autopsy, you

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Speaker 1: know what we would do with that information if in

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Speaker 1: fact they had this information at time relative to her

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Speaker 1: being knocked around, um would they would they put that

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Speaker 1: in context and examine the totality of her body. The

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Speaker 1: problem is this, the corner has stated that she was

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Speaker 1: down three to four weeks. Now, there's all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that go into this, but just suffice it to

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Speaker 1: say that the body begins to break down. It's a

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Speaker 1: natural process, and the tissue, the soft tissue, the skin,

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Speaker 1: the underlying uh connective tissue, and certainly the muscle begin

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Speaker 1: to deteriorate and at a just like a microscopic level

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Speaker 1: and at a cellular level, it begins to break down.

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Speaker 1: The body is actually kind of, in a weird way,

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Speaker 1: is kind of ingesting itself. And so as that happens,

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Speaker 1: there are all these little things that we referred to

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Speaker 1: as um decompositional artifact. And what that means is that

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Speaker 1: the body begins to manifest dark areas, it begins to

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Speaker 1: kind of eradicate anything else that was there. The trick

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Speaker 1: is the trick is for these forensic scientists, were they

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Speaker 1: able to differentiate between decompositional artifact changes after death and

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Speaker 1: any kind of pre existing trauma she may have sustained

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Speaker 1: prior to the death event. You know, was there evidence

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Speaker 1: of things that were there and had begun to heal.

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Speaker 1: Let's think about this just for a second. All of

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Speaker 1: us have had some kind of bruise in our life.

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Speaker 1: If you if you've got kids, uh, you know, they'll

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Speaker 1: come bounding through the door and you'll you'll ask them

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Speaker 1: as a parent, you know, where did you get that

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Speaker 1: bruise and that sort of thing. They'll give you some

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Speaker 1: kind of reason for it. Every bruise that we have

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Speaker 1: or contusion, it goes through stages, doesn't it. You know,

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Speaker 1: just think about it. Initially it's really bright red and

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Speaker 1: then becomes kind of a blue to purple color. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it will go black and then blue and the purple,

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Speaker 1: and then it it goes through that really disgusting phase

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Speaker 1: where it will be yellow and green and finally it's gone. Well,

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Speaker 1: that takes place over time, and it's resolving, it's healing.

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Speaker 1: So the question would be from a scientific perspective, had

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Speaker 1: decomposition compromised that tissue where you couldn't appreciate it fully,

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Speaker 1: where you couldn't understand or be able to appreciate if

390
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Speaker 1: there was healing going on old injuries and to boot

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Speaker 1: you have to also factor in what's referred to as

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Speaker 1: a perimortem event. Peri mortem means in the throes of

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Speaker 1: So the perimortem event in this case would be the

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Speaker 1: trauma that was being inflicted upon Gabby's delicate little neck

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Speaker 1: during her death event. As the life was being squeezed

396
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Speaker 1: out of her, you've got new hemorrhage that's being created.

397
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Speaker 1: So it's a difficult task for the forensic scientists because

398
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Speaker 1: you've got this just huge mesh of information they're trying

399
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: to disseminate and and separate. So you've got all the

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Speaker 1: stuff that happened prior to her death, You've got the

401
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: stuff that happened during the midst of that perimortum event

402
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: I mentioned, and then you've got all the stuff that

403
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: happens after death. And you can see what a web

404
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: this is that they kind of have to pick apart.

405
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Speaker 1: It's no wonder that it took us, you know, several

406
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Speaker 1: weeks down range after they came up with the manner

407
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Speaker 1: of death to give us a cause of death. Does

408
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Speaker 1: the blood fooling the blood that remains in the body

409
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Speaker 1: when you die in in the position the blood goes

410
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Speaker 1: to the lowest position in the body. Is that going

411
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Speaker 1: to affect being able to tell about the bruises? You know,

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Speaker 1: you're you're referring to something we call post mortem avidity

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Speaker 1: or live or mortis. And essentially, if you'll think about

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Speaker 1: if you'll just take at home him you'll take a

415
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: cup of water and take it stand over your sink.

416
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Speaker 1: Don't do it in the middle of your living room,

417
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: but take a cup of water, stand over the sink

418
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Speaker 1: in and tip it over. What happens to the water,

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00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: well it it goes to the lowest point of gravity.

420
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Speaker 1: Blood is no different, Okay, any fluid that you have

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00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: in your body after death. Remember, your blood is no

422
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: longer circulating, so it is going to seek the lowest

423
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Speaker 1: point of gravity. And I don't know this for a fact,

424
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Speaker 1: but let's just assume that that Gabby's body was laying

425
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Speaker 1: in a supine position, which means her back was contacting

426
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Speaker 1: the ground. After she's placed in that position, the blood

427
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: in her body would seek that lowest point of gravity

428
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: and would go to her back wherever her body is

429
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: contacting the ground because gravity is pulling her pulling it there.

430
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: You know, gravity is a constant force in our universe,

431
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: and so it will darken the skin. That's one of

432
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: the things that we look at. It's one of the

433
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: reasons that people refer to it as post mortem lovidty,

434
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: how many of you guys have ever heard the term, Uh,

435
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: you're not just angry. People will say I'm livid. Well,

436
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: the reason they say they're livid is that there's color

437
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: change in your face. You ever seen somebody gets so

438
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: angry their face turns red or purple. I've seen it.

439
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: And so that applies to postmortem lovidity. There's color changes

440
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: and they stay there, they stay fixed. So you superimpose

441
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: that over any kind of bruising that was there. Coupled

442
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: with that, it even makes it more difficult to appreciate

443
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: any kind of pre existing trauma. And when we begin

444
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: to think about that area on her right shoulder that

445
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: we had mentioned, uh, you know, if she's laying face up,

446
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: that could potentially be compromised as well because of the

447
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: postmortum levity where the blood is settling into that area,

448
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: gravity is drawing it down. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and

449
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: this is body backs