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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive

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Speaker 1: from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New York

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Speaker 1: and Eva Low in Sent Francisco.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.

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Speaker 3: The US government will not take a stake in TikTok,

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Speaker 3: but a deal with US investors is close, with Oracle

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Speaker 3: powering the tech as the cloud computing company shuffles its CEOs,

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Speaker 3: plus T.

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Speaker 4: Mobile announcers and changing its leadership too. We sit down

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Speaker 4: with the CEO, Mike Siebert and his successor, sereny Go Polan,

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Speaker 4: and the.

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Speaker 3: Trump administration plans to raise the H one B application

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Speaker 3: fee to one hundred thousand dollars. We'll discuss the implications

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Speaker 3: for workers in the tech industry, but for.

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Speaker 4: Now, we look at the broader market said, and we

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Speaker 4: turn a tide. We actually push back into the greens,

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Speaker 4: a new record high for announced that one hundred and

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Speaker 4: twenty seventh record hi for the S and P five hundred.

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Speaker 4: Even though we started today in the red, so sentiment

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Speaker 4: whipsawing little as we look ahead to federal reserves speak

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Speaker 4: this week, inflation data as well, but the sentiment is

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Speaker 4: sourd and crypto We're going to get into that a

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Speaker 4: little bit more in the show progresses.

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Speaker 5: We're down two percent on Bitcoin, even more on e

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Speaker 5: What are you looking at?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to Oracle as our big mover and

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Speaker 3: our top story being TikTok.

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Speaker 2: We're up three percent in the session, but.

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Speaker 3: As you can see over the course of last week

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Speaker 3: and this morning session, a lot of movement in Oracle

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Speaker 3: that's pushed towards record highs. We now have a better

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Speaker 3: understanding from the White House on the proposed technology structure

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Speaker 3: for a TikTok deal in the US and the investors

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Speaker 3: behind it, and it is Oracle at the harder that.

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Speaker 3: We also learned this morning that Oracle is going to

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Speaker 3: have two new co CEOs and then just a little

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Speaker 3: bit of carrow. We're going to get more details on that.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with TikTok. More details are coming out on

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Speaker 3: the deal taking shape to sell TikTok to a consortium

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Speaker 3: of American investors. US officials say they're confident China has

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Speaker 3: approved the deal, under which Oracle would recreate and then

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Speaker 3: provide security for a new US version of TikTok's algorithm.

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Speaker 2: Bloombers.

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Speaker 3: Kat Wagner who covers TikTok for US joints. The more

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Speaker 3: there have been a lot of headlines this morning. What

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Speaker 3: do we need to know about the status of TikTok

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Speaker 3: in the United States?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think you pointed out the algorithm has been

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Speaker 6: a key sort of sticking point in this entire process

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Speaker 6: because under US law, byte Dance, the owner of TikTok,

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Speaker 6: is not allowed to have any say in the algorithm

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Speaker 6: or the technology of this new US version, and Chinese

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Speaker 6: law says you can't export this valuable technology. So it

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Speaker 6: seems that they figured out some type of workaround where Oracle,

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Speaker 6: as you mentioned, in this group of US investors will

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Speaker 6: license the algorithm from Byteedance for a short time while

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Speaker 6: they essentially recreate it and make it a brand new version,

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Speaker 6: a brand new algorithm that's US trained, in US controlled,

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Speaker 6: and then that will be what powers this new US

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Speaker 6: version of TikTok. But again, this is all sort of

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Speaker 6: a very unique, one of a kind deal, and so

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Speaker 6: so while the framework has been announced, we are still

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Speaker 6: waiting on formal approvals of this deal from leaders in Beijing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and President Trump saying that she has approved the

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Speaker 4: TikTok deal. They just have to get it signed, Kirt,

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Speaker 4: There's still so many more questions. Indeed, who are the

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Speaker 4: US participants, Who are the people who are going to

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Speaker 4: control There are new names being thrown in the ring

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Speaker 4: by the President of the course of the weekend.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so we know about Oracle of course, as being

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Speaker 6: sort of the most notable name in this consortium. Silver

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Speaker 6: Lake Partners was another that was I believe unveiled today.

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Speaker 6: We had previously reported that andreesent Horowitz, the venture capital firm,

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Speaker 6: we have reported at Bloomberg that they are going to

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Speaker 6: be involved, But it sounds like it might still be

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Speaker 6: sort of taking shape a little bit here. And you know, Carolina,

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Speaker 6: as we mentioned this, just because the President says, hey,

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Speaker 6: we have a deal and it will be signed. This

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Speaker 6: has been such a contentious issue, contentious deal over many

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Speaker 6: many years at this point that I think until everyone

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Speaker 6: truly signs on the dotted line, we have to assume

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Speaker 6: this is still being sort of negotiated and worked out

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Speaker 6: in real time. So it seems we're the closest we've

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Speaker 6: ever been. But again, until that deal is formally formally signed,

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Speaker 6: I think we have to assume things are still moving

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Speaker 6: a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Bluemos, Kat Wagner, we thank you for the latest. Let's

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Speaker 4: stick with one of the key players in the TikTok story,

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Speaker 4: and it's Oracle, because the company has also just announced

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Speaker 4: that its promoted Claim mcgork Mike Cecilia to the roles

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Speaker 4: of co CEOs, replacing Saffrakatz, who has led the company

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Speaker 4: since twenty fourteen and moves onto a board role. Let's

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Speaker 4: bring in Bloomberg's Brody Ford, who covers Oracle, and it

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Speaker 4: is a big change at the top.

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Speaker 2: It is right.

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Speaker 7: Saffra Katz has been one of the faces of Oracle

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Speaker 7: for about a decade now, and folks familiar with Oracle's

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Speaker 7: cloud business, which has become so important. Well, no, Claim

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Speaker 7: mcgor k has led that unit for a while. The

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Speaker 7: fact that he is being elevated in this way maybe

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Speaker 7: isn't a shocker. The timing is they were both promoted

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Speaker 7: Clay and Mike to president in June. Now all of

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Speaker 7: a sudden they're becoming CEOs and so it's been a

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Speaker 7: busy couple of months at Oracle.

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Speaker 3: If you speak to anyone that's involved in this massive

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Speaker 3: AI infrastructure build out right now, Clay's name comes up

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Speaker 3: quite a lot. I was interested in reading your story

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Speaker 3: that they are co CEOs, but the comp is different

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Speaker 3: between the two of them.

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Speaker 2: Can you just explain that a bit, Bradie, Right.

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Speaker 7: They're co CEOs, they have the same title, but one

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Speaker 7: of them is going to make one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 7: million more in stock awards, and so that doesn't exactly

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Speaker 7: sound equal to me.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 7: What we know about Oracle right now is that the

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Speaker 7: cloud infrastructure business is set to become their largest business

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Speaker 7: by an incredible margin, and so the person who leads

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Speaker 7: that unit is about to make significantly more money. Folks

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Speaker 7: inside the company describe the dynamic to me as Clay

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Speaker 7: is a kind of run through a brick wall to

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Speaker 7: get something done engineering leader, whereas Mike Cecilia is more

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Speaker 7: of the adult in the room. Any Ways, it mirrors

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Speaker 7: a dynamic that Larry Ellison and Saffracats have had for years.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting that Clay has got a board level as well,

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Speaker 4: whereas and has for time, whereas perhaps Mike hasn't brody.

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Speaker 4: It's notable that Suffracatz is still going to be there,

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Speaker 4: and you also put the context in your story that

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Speaker 4: she wasn't always totally behind the pivot towards data center

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Speaker 4: is the pivot towards cloud offering.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely. She was in the earlier days of cloud a

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Speaker 7: little skeptical, right. I mean, she came up in the

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Speaker 7: era where they were selling databases on prem for you know,

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Speaker 7: margins that are some of the highest you can get

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Speaker 7: on any product, and then comes data center infrastructure, where

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Speaker 7: you're making pretty low gross margins and putting up billions

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Speaker 7: at the forefront. She was a little anxious about this,

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Speaker 7: and so as Oracle makes that their main business, it's

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Speaker 7: not a shocker to me that we see a changing

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Speaker 7: of the guard.

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Speaker 2: Brady, real quick.

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Speaker 3: You broke the story Friday that Oracles netted a deal

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Speaker 3: with Meta, and I think, as you put it on air,

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Speaker 3: Larry Ellison can't stop winning, right.

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Speaker 7: Well, we all know that Oracle had this massive deal

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Speaker 7: with open Ai, and the worry was that are they

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Speaker 7: going to be a one trick pony? Are they going

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Speaker 7: to have really bad customer concentration. We broke on Friday

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Speaker 7: that they have another twenty billion deal with Meta seemingly

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Speaker 7: coming down the pipeline, and so it shows that Oracle

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Speaker 7: is seriously being taken as a provider of this kind

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Speaker 7: of AI infrastructure.

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Speaker 4: And a quick note that I'm now saying Mike Cecilia

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Speaker 4: on the board as well as Clay, so both taking

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Speaker 4: exciting roles.

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Speaker 5: We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Ed Yeah, management Mayhem Monday, a lot of fun coming up.

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Speaker 3: T Mobile announces a change in leadership as well with

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Speaker 3: Mike see if it set to depart the CEO role.

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Speaker 3: We speak with Mike and the successor, Shrini Gopalan, that's

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Speaker 3: coming up next.

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Speaker 2: You do not want to miss this conversation. This is

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Speaker 2: bloombag Tech.

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Speaker 4: T Mobile has announced that Mike's SAE it is set

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Speaker 4: to transition away from as well as CEO well to

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Speaker 4: stem a newly created vice chair management position set to

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Speaker 4: take over as CEO November. The first is Strenie Goplan,

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Speaker 4: Tmobile's current COO, and please to say they welcome us

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Speaker 4: here in the studio both for Bloomberg's radio and TV audiences.

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Speaker 4: Might I start with you, why is now the right

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Speaker 4: time for you to hand over the reins in this way?

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Speaker 9: Because Serenie's ready. You know, T mobile does it differently.

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Speaker 9: We believe in thoughtful succession. I recruited Sereni to the

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Speaker 9: COO position almost a year ago, and he has killed it,

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Speaker 9: and he has an incredibly inspiring vision for the future.

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Speaker 10: And I also wanted to pick a moment when the company.

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Speaker 9: Is firing on all cylinders, because I think you should

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Speaker 9: do succession amidst success. And so we picked our moment

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Speaker 9: because Serenie's ready. He's the person to lead us into

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Speaker 9: the future. And the company has put wind in his

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Speaker 9: sales so that the team can continue to deliver outsize

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Speaker 9: success going forward.

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Speaker 4: And SERENI, Okay, the vision, the exciting vision for the future.

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Speaker 4: How much is that about five or how much is

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Speaker 4: that about the the real expertise you have in a

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Speaker 4: more mature market having built that.

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Speaker 5: With dewicha telecom.

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Speaker 11: Look, when I look back up my career over the

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Speaker 11: last thirty years, it feels like I've been preparing for

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Speaker 11: this day acause what I've done over the last thirty

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Speaker 11: years is really developed some real expertise at driving technology

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Speaker 11: driven transformation, whether that's digital data, AI, fiber and networks.

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Speaker 11: And that's really what the next stage of growth at

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Speaker 11: T Mobile is going to be. It's going to be

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Speaker 11: about bringing together this incredible culture, brand, everything that Mike's built,

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Speaker 11: the great value we stand for together with amazing technology,

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Speaker 11: making it easy for customers to do stuff, giving them

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Speaker 11: a great experience, and America's best network. So there are

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Speaker 11: no trade offs. You get all of that together at

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Speaker 11: the same time.

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Speaker 3: At T Mobile, Shaney, I'll start with you if I may.

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Speaker 3: You know, in any life cycle of a company, there

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Speaker 3: comes a point where it's just more mature, right, there's

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Speaker 3: this corporate s curve, And so I think it's a

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Speaker 3: really sensible place to start by asking you what you're

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Speaker 3: going to do differently from Mike, given that the company

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Speaker 3: is in a different stage to what it was over

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Speaker 3: the period that might let it look.

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Speaker 11: At T Mobile, we don't believe in kind of sitting

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Speaker 11: on our hands and kind of waiting to see how

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Speaker 11: the industry evolves. We define the industry. We define how

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Speaker 11: this goes forward. Mike and the team have already been

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Speaker 11: talking a lot about the transformation we want to drive

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Speaker 11: about bringing America's best network together with great value, not

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Speaker 11: just that taking the technology we have available today across AI,

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Speaker 11: across our digital footprint, and building the best experience for

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Speaker 11: T Mobile customers. So what you should expect is a

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Speaker 11: lot of continuation of changing the industry for the good

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Speaker 11: of the customer, and that means a continual transformation. So

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Speaker 11: this is not a business that likes sort of sitting

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Speaker 11: steady and kind of watching the dividends and growth come in.

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Speaker 11: We're there to change the life of our customers, to

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Speaker 11: change this industry for the better, and you should expect

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Speaker 11: to see a lot more of that.

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Speaker 2: Mike.

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Speaker 3: When I was reading up on a shrine ahead of

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Speaker 3: our conversation at Apple a couple of weeks ago, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know that this was going to happen. But you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of focuses on his time in Europe.

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Speaker 3: How much was that a big factor for you, because

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Speaker 3: again it's a different market there in Europe to hear

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Speaker 3: in the United States.

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Speaker 9: Well, what was a factor for me was just what

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Speaker 9: kind of an executive he is. Streeney is tenacious, he

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Speaker 9: is hard charging, he is competitive, he's customer loving, and

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Speaker 9: he attracts talent and he's got a vision for the

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Speaker 9: future of our company that's exciting. So I've known this

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Speaker 9: for years because we've been friends for a long time,

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Speaker 9: we've been co workers on the board of directors of

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Speaker 9: T Mobile. I've seen how he thinks, and so a

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Speaker 9: year ago I convinced him to give all that europe

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Speaker 9: stuff up and come to the US as our chief

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Speaker 9: operating officer, very much with this day in mind, because

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Speaker 9: I knew he was the right person to lead the

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Speaker 9: company into the future.

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Speaker 4: You've been bold, For example, Mike, I think of you

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Speaker 4: being the first one to strike that deal with Starling,

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Speaker 4: to think about director device satellite communication going forward.

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Speaker 5: Just how is that partnership given you a competitive edge?

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Speaker 5: Are you seeing people come on board because of the

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Speaker 5: changes you made?

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Speaker 8: Well?

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Speaker 9: T Mobiles an innovator, you know, not just direct to sell.

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Speaker 9: With Starlink, we created the home broadband five G category,

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Speaker 9: which millions of people benefit from nationwide. We continue, as

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Speaker 9: Srina was saying, to redefine what it means to compete

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Speaker 9: in this category and then watch while everybody follows. That's

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Speaker 9: why we're the world's most successful telecommunications company. So look

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Speaker 9: on the on the T satellite. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 9: been fantastic. Our dream when I announced that with Elon

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Speaker 9: back in twenty twenty two, was to end dead zones,

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Speaker 9: the end of dead zones, and today T Mobile customers

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Speaker 9: can connect to six hundred satellites, the only one that

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Speaker 9: connects your phone automatically if you fall off a terrestrial network,

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Speaker 9: but soony for.

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Speaker 4: Example, on first one or to do list might be

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Speaker 4: the boost mobile is going to have potential offering because

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Speaker 4: of the new spectrum that Elon Then's got with Starlink.

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Speaker 4: How do you can consider the future evolution of direct

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Speaker 4: to consumer satellite.

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Speaker 11: When we start off with this vision of putting an

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Speaker 11: end to dead zones, right, that's what we were going for.

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Speaker 11: We're delighted that Starlink has now acquired more spectrum makes

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Speaker 11: the service even better. Together, what we want to do

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Speaker 11: is live true to that mission of putting an end

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Speaker 11: to dead zones. As far as the competitive world is concerned,

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Speaker 11: we love competition. We love switching. I mean we've always

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Speaker 11: sweed as said this, the more jumpalls the better because

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Speaker 11: there's only one place that you can get the best network,

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Speaker 11: best value, and best experience. So we love competition. Anything

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Speaker 11: that stimulates even more switching is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: Shiny.

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Speaker 3: A lot of questions that we get from the audience director,

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Speaker 3: you are about fiber and so I would summarize T

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Speaker 3: mobile strategy today little tiny pieces of M and A.

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Speaker 3: How are you going to approach that going forward? You're

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Speaker 3: just going to build this out yourself.

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Speaker 11: Look, when we approach a new business, right, we approach

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Speaker 11: it with a mix of conviction and humility. We're convinced

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Speaker 11: that our brand, the distribution we bring, what we stand for,

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Speaker 11: our culture of kind of smashing through customer pain points

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Speaker 11: and really attacking incumbents is equally applicable to fiber as

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Speaker 11: it was to fixed swiless. We're also humble enough to

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Speaker 11: realize that we don't have a set of capabilities like

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Speaker 11: local zoning and permitting, and we partner for that. And

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Speaker 11: that's the logic for the JVS. The vision for fiber

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Speaker 11: is not small. I think we've clearly showed our hand.

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Speaker 11: We like being first to fiber, we like being a

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Speaker 11: pure play fiber player, and we will continue to scale

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Speaker 11: that business. On the acquisition questions, we'll see what's available.

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Speaker 11: We'll take a hard nose look allocate capital well. But

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Speaker 11: we do like a pure play fiber business and we

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Speaker 11: think there's a lot of scale possible for that.

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Speaker 9: And ED just remember that we're the leading broadband growth

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Speaker 9: company in America even before the fiber pieces that you're

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Speaker 9: now asking about, because five G broadband has become a

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Speaker 9: phenomenon and overall, T Mobile has led broadband growth in

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Speaker 9: this company, in this country for thirteen quarters in a row.

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Speaker 11: And in a SMA matter of a few years. We're

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Speaker 11: now three years, We're now the fifth largest is Spen

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Speaker 11: country from a standing star.

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Speaker 3: Hey gents, you make a good double act, but we're

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Speaker 3: short on time. So Mike, I'm going to ask my

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Speaker 3: final question to you. You're still in the role till November,

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Speaker 3: first critical period of.

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Speaker 2: The year for handset sales.

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Speaker 3: What's the data telling you early about iPhone seventeen. What

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Speaker 3: is going to do for T Mobile the behaviors of

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Speaker 3: your existing in new customers.

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Speaker 9: Well, it's only been three days, but we're killing it.

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Speaker 9: You know, last year we had an all time record

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Speaker 9: new iPhone introduction. This year we're beating that by double digits,

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Speaker 9: and not just in terms of activating phones for our customers,

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Speaker 9: but in terms of switchers, switchers to T Mobile who

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Speaker 9: are coming at the moment that they get a new

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Speaker 9: iPhone also up double digits this this this weekend. And

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Speaker 9: so you know, we've had a great launch, and you know,

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Speaker 9: a new phone is a great time for Americans to

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Speaker 9: ask themselves do they have the right provider switches.

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Speaker 3: What was the call that Shriney made when we spoke

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Speaker 3: at Apple a couple of weeks ago, Mike Siebert, Tim

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Speaker 3: Moo's outgoing CEO, Shriny Gopalan incoming.

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Speaker 2: Just terrific conversation. Thank you to you.

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Speaker 4: Both stock markets push higher, but let's focus on crypto

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Speaker 4: because we're actually seeing a draw down significantly. We've seen

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Speaker 4: about one and a half billion dollars in bullish wages.

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Speaker 4: Those bullish bets have iniquidated on Monday, particularly across Eve,

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Speaker 4: we saw it falling the hardest, nearly half a billion

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Speaker 4: dollars worth of leverage a long positions. We understand pulled

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Speaker 4: out of that second largest token, But is this a

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Speaker 4: sign of just the changing of the guard. Are we

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Speaker 4: questioning some of those theories around digital asset treasuries in particular?

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Speaker 5: Now a we just taking some money off the table.

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Speaker 3: Edd Let's get more on the broader markets, particularly on tech.

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Speaker 3: Eric Bailey, wealth manager at Stewart Partners, and I find

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Speaker 3: what Caroline was outlining there really interesting because right now

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Speaker 3: you can either pick out that data set, you can

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Speaker 3: say that equity markets continue to push records or hold

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Speaker 3: at records. Do you have a summary of what the

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Speaker 3: sentiment in the market is right now.

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Speaker 12: Eric, Yeah, thanks having me. Clearly, the risk trade is on.

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Speaker 12: Investors are taking risk and we've really seen this since

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Speaker 12: I would say late July where the growth indexes took

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Speaker 12: over value. Right we had that drop in April and

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Speaker 12: value was kind of leading the markets, and that's really

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Speaker 12: shifted and you've seen growth equity perform extremely well. And

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Speaker 12: that's day to day. It keeps going higher. So you

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Speaker 12: have the Russell one thousand growth indexes up I think

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Speaker 12: over seventeen percent right now. You're to date and of

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Speaker 12: late with the news and after earnings, growth is clearly

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Speaker 12: you know where investors want to be. They're comfortable taking

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Speaker 12: risk right now.

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Speaker 3: Apple is up four percent in this session and the

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Speaker 3: reason that that's notable is that it actually believe it

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Speaker 3: or not most of the way through September. Takes it

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Speaker 3: into positive territory for twenty twenty five. We talked a

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Speaker 3: lot in the middle of the year about the contribution

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Speaker 3: of the mag seven names to the market overall, but

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Speaker 3: as a moment, time to do that at this part

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Speaker 3: of the year.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 12: Yeah, it's impressive, right, you mentioned Apple, I mean that

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Speaker 12: stock not long ago was really you know, investors were

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Speaker 12: checked out, analysts were negative, people were questioning Apple what

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Speaker 12: they were doing. And now, as you said, it's positive

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Speaker 12: on the ear just an incredible move. And the MAG

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Speaker 12: seven even Tesla I name, that is still down for

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Speaker 12: the year, but it's had a very big move here

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Speaker 12: the last several weeks. And so the MAG seven is

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Speaker 12: clearly leading to markets right now. You're seeing that day after.

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Speaker 5: Day, Eric, Eric, should you stay committed to that?

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Speaker 13: Then?

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Speaker 4: Just the trend has been relentlessly high since April, but

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Speaker 4: the valuation story just gets harder and harder to swallow.

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Speaker 12: I agree.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 12: As a financial advisor and I have lots of positions

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Speaker 12: in these names, it is concerning because the valuations are

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Speaker 12: just so high, and you ask, can this momentum continue?

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Speaker 12: Our investors is going to continue to buy these names?

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Speaker 12: And yeah, I mean, you don't see any science that's

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Speaker 12: going to weaken. The trends are so powerfully on the upside.

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Speaker 12: So I think you hold them. But clearly, you know,

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Speaker 12: new money going in, I would be cautious because these

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Speaker 12: valuations are so.

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Speaker 4: High, and so you perhaps diversify, you don't re up

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Speaker 4: your bets. If they've been winning of late, but his

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Speaker 4: earning is going to be the tell? Is it going

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Speaker 4: to be geopolitics that the tell what ultimately makes us

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Speaker 4: question how valuable some of these companies are.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, we'll see. I mean right now, our earnings after

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Speaker 12: the second quarters certainly are leading the these names, and

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Speaker 12: some of the big announcements right with Oracle, which you

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Speaker 12: guys have been talking about all day, clearly tremendous momentum

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Speaker 12: with the announcements they've made in AI, and so I

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Speaker 12: do think it's earnings that's going to lead them higher.

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Speaker 12: As for investors, yeah, I think you got to you

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Speaker 12: hold your positions, but you look and see how overweight

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Speaker 12: or how how much you know, how large a position

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Speaker 12: do I have in these names? And they are you comfortable,

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Speaker 12: you know, having this bigger risk risk position in your portfolio.

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Speaker 3: In the context of corporate earnings and tech. You know,

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Speaker 3: the signal from certain names is that kind of soft

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Speaker 3: data set or hard data set even that the people

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Speaker 3: are looking for.

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Speaker 2: I'm putting you on the.

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Speaker 3: Spot, but we get Micron in the next thirty six hours.

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Speaker 3: You know, they might tell us something big picture about

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Speaker 3: the direction of travel for AI infrastructure is that still

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Speaker 3: like the watch item for a lot of desks.

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Speaker 12: Well, I think the broader, the whole sector of semiconductors,

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Speaker 12: which Micron is in, overall us performed well. You have

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Speaker 12: seen certain names get hit, but overall the group I

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Speaker 12: track the SMAH index, it's done very well. And so yeah,

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Speaker 12: Micron is certainly going to be important. And I know

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Speaker 12: there was some positive analyst calls I want to say

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Speaker 12: today on Micron. So yeah, that's a big name and

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Speaker 12: that could shield the market to go higher if they

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Speaker 12: have a good result.

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Speaker 3: Well, so we in the course of this conversation we've

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Speaker 3: said how remarkable this is, the timing of it, the

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Speaker 3: sentiment in the market. Give us the Eric Bailey prediction

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Speaker 3: for what happens in the balance of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 12: You know, I've been calling for a little bit of

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Speaker 12: a pullback and I've been wrong. I expected that at

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Speaker 12: the at these valuations we would see some of some

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Speaker 12: kind of correction, you know, since that April drop, we

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Speaker 12: have just been on a chair. So I do expect

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Speaker 12: the markets to get a bumpier, but I don't see

440
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 12: it being a long term trend. I think any correction,

441
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 12: buyers will step in and we're going to continue on

442
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 12: this run. It's going to take a lot to get

443
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 12: this market to get negative.

444
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 4: I think Bailey from Stuart Partners, appreciate your time today

445
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 4: and the push forward.

446
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.

447
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: We're thinking very much about the news story on one

448
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars H one V application fees and in

449
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 3: the market, I'm looking at Infosis. These are the US

450
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 3: listed shares of Infos, the Indian technology company. Up modestly

451
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 3: in this Monday session, but a big drop Friday when

452
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: Bloomberg first reported that one hundred thousand dollars figure. There's

453
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 3: a lot of emphasis on the IT and outsourcing names

454
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 3: out there. There was big downward pressure in Indian listed

455
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 3: technology names overnight. There's also a big scramble for American

456
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 3: technology companies to understand how this impacts their ability to

457
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 3: hire and what it means for existing H one B

458
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: visa holders. For more on the state of H one

459
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: B visas and immigration in the US, he banner ericson

460
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: Immigration Group Partner joins us now. The confusion was when

461
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: this first was confirmed Friday, there wasn't clarity on whether

462
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: it applied to new applicants H one B or existing

463
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 3: as well. Then over the weekend, the White House clarified

464
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 3: that it was just new applicants.

465
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 2: But can we just.

466
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 3: Start by you reflecting on your weekend, the discussions you've

467
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: had with clients in the technology sector, how you've managed

468
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 3: this process.

469
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 14: Certainly so you're absolutely right. Initially there was not clarification

470
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 14: as to whether or not the one hundred thousand dollars

471
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 14: fee would apply to existing H ONEB visa holders or

472
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 14: new applicants. There was also confusion about whether or not

473
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 14: this was a one time fee versus a continuous annual fee,

474
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 14: And what essentially happened for the first twenty four hours

475
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 14: following the proclamation was pretty close to chaos. We had

476
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 14: several clients who are very well known tech companies who

477
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 14: either contacted H one B employees who happened to be

478
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 14: outside of the United States at the time the proclamation

479
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 14: came out, asking them to try their best to come

480
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 14: back before the one hundred thousand dollars fee took effect.

481
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 14: And then also we had a lot of companies, not

482
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 14: just the companies that we work with, but very well

483
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 14: known companies in the market tell their employees to wait

484
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,120
Speaker 14: before engaging in any international travel until we know more.

485
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 14: There was also instances of international flights that were getting

486
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 14: ready to take off where several passengers requested to deplane

487
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 14: specifically because they wanted to avoid their companies being charged

488
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 14: one hundred thousand dollars fee if they attempted to re

489
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 14: enter after international trip. So, like I said, the first

490
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 14: twenty four hours were extremely confusing, and we did the

491
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 14: best that we could to provide the guidance to that

492
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 14: the companies need in order to communicate to their employees

493
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 14: with what very little we knew.

494
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: HEBA one hundred thousand dollars is the fee from this

495
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 3: point on? What is the strategy for America's biggest technology

496
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 3: companies and also smaller startups? Do you think that it's

497
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 3: a manageable fee and what is the kind of process

498
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: from here? Do they just slow down hiring in the

499
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: H one B category?

500
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 14: One hundred thousand dollars fee for an H ONEB visa

501
00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 14: petition is not manageable at all for startups, for small businesses,

502
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 14: even for mid sized businesses. I think that this is

503
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 14: going to make it extremely difficult, if not nearly impossible,

504
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 14: for startups, small businesses or mid sized businesses to hire

505
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 14: the talent that they need in order to be able

506
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 14: to compete on a global scale. For larger tech companies

507
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 14: that have more resources, I think that the ability to

508
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 14: manage a fee of this amount is not going to

509
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 14: be as difficult as it is for startups. But I

510
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 14: want everyone to remember that a lot of these extremely

511
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 14: successful international companies were once themselves startups, and so any

512
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 14: policy that makes it harder for American startups or small

513
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 14: businesses to innovate is going to impact our competitiveness down

514
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 14: the line.

515
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 4: What's been extraordinary for many has been just seeing where

516
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 4: the outsize impact has had who it's had upon, and

517
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 4: in particular, it's people coming from India, it's people coming

518
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 4: from China.

519
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 5: Heber.

520
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: The argument coming from the administration is that H one

521
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 4: B visa process wasn't being used as it should be.

522
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 5: Have you let any evidence of that?

523
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 14: I have no evidence of that. I think that there

524
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 14: are quite a few checks and balances built into the

525
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 14: H and B process as it stands today, and that's

526
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 14: actually inclusive of several levels of scrutiny as well as

527
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 14: extensive background checks, and there is prima facia evidence basically,

528
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 14: in other words, preliminary evidence that has to be submitted

529
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 14: along with the initial application for an H one B

530
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 14: visa in order for that application to be successful in

531
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 14: the first place. And so I haven't seen any evidence

532
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 14: of misuse. I think that it's a really critical tool

533
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 14: for our companies, both tech and in various other industries

534
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 14: in order for them to stay competitive. I also think

535
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 14: it's important to point out that people normally associate the

536
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 14: H one B visa with tech companies, which is very true,

537
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 14: but there's a variety of different industries that rely on

538
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 14: the H one B visa, including research institutions, universities, and healthcare.

539
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 14: And so this has the potential to really impact a

540
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 14: lot of different American institutions, assuming that this goes forward

541
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 14: and is not paused by litigation.

542
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: Now, we did see that there was an update coming

543
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 4: from the Administration that potentially doctors would have a carve

544
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: out from one hundred thousand.

545
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 5: Dollars in terms of a fee hibber.

546
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 4: But let's go back to California, the state that's most

547
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 4: impacted according to our data, and indeed Texas, New York,

548
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 4: New Jersey the companies that are based there, and then

549
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: we look at the as you say, the industries, professors, scientists,

550
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 4: technology services, manufacturing, information. These companies, what do they do.

551
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 4: Do they hire outside of the US to be able

552
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: to make up for the talent shortfall while the training

553
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: goes on in the US, or is there any idea

554
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: that there is enough talent here to satisfy the needs.

555
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 14: That's one of the concerns resulting from this fee. The

556
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 14: concern is that a lot of companies would choose to

557
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 14: either pause hiring, in particular international hiring, but also may

558
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 14: choose to shift their operations abroad, and that is going

559
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 14: to have downstream effects for the company as well as

560
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 14: US workers that work for the company. So that's one

561
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 14: of the concerns. The other concern, as you mentioned, is

562
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 14: that there's a variety of different companies that rely on

563
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 14: the H one B visa, and so there is language

564
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 14: in the proclamation that cars out exceptions for an individual

565
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 14: who the government deems is in the national interest of

566
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 14: the US. However, what we still need to understand is

567
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 14: the way in which these arguments requesting a national interest

568
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 14: exception are actually going to be treated and adjudicated. As

569
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 14: it stands now, the evidentiary standards for successfully making that

570
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 14: argument are actually quite high. So I don't think that

571
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 14: the language that cars out an exception is going to

572
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 14: help any of the concerns that the industry has.

573
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: Heber Bloomberg's reported at length that the expectation is immediate

574
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: legal challenges to this executive order, and they note in

575
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 3: that reporting that Congress has traditionally set in a legislative

576
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: or qualified way fees and other associated costs. Could you

577
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 3: just explain where you stand today, where the precedent is

578
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: to challenge this and any action that you might take

579
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: on behalf of clients to challenge it.

580
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 14: I think that anybody who's getting ready to make a

581
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 14: legal challenge to this is going to incorporate a few

582
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 14: key grounds in their argument. One is that it is

583
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 14: the responsibility of Congress to make immigration laws set immigration fees. Also,

584
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 14: the President is basing this proclamation on a law that

585
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 14: does grant the President brought authority in terms of restricting

586
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 14: entry of foreign nationals into the United States if there

587
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 14: is a national security concern or if that individual's entry

588
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 14: to the US is somehow detrimental to the US.

589
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 10: However, there has to be.

590
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 14: Some substantive factual evidence in support of that, which I

591
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 14: would imagine folks who seek to challenge this proclamation will argue.

592
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: Does not exist.

593
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 14: And so those are the grounds that I'm going to

594
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 14: be watching out for in terms of the upcoming legal challenges.

595
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 14: One thing that I do want to note, however, is

596
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 14: that the recent Supreme Court decision and Trump versus Cossa,

597
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 14: made it very difficult for a single federal judge to

598
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 14: issue a nationwide injunction pausing some sort of presidential action

599
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 14: from taking effect. And so one thing I know that

600
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 14: I'm going to be watching out for is basically whether

601
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 14: or not somebody chooses to file a class action lawsuit,

602
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 14: how broad that class is defined, and whether or not

603
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 14: a federal judge certifies it.

604
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 4: Hey Manver, incredibly busy. We really thank you for your

605
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: time today. Ericson Immigration Group Now interesting me. Our CEO

606
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 4: Kathy Wood weighed in on the issue of H one

607
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: B visas and the fees, saying the changes are part

608
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: of a negotiating process, actually predicts that it will actually

609
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 4: end up being loosened. Just take a listen to what

610
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 4: you said the TV earlier.

611
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 13: This is part of President Trump's negotiating process, and I

612
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 13: think he's negotiating quite intensively. Right now with India. I

613
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 13: think India would be have the biggest impact here in

614
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 13: terms of, you know, workers in the United States.

615
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 10: So I think this is a little.

616
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 13: Bit like tariffs, and it's going to capture all the

617
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 13: headlines and it's going to really take the oxygen out

618
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 13: of the room because there's a lot of really good

619
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 13: fundamental activity happening in the United States relating.

620
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 15: To policy, well, a lot of that, a lot of

621
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 15: the innovation, a lot of that Silicon Valley kind of

622
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 15: goodness really comes from the talent and the labor pool.

623
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 15: We've been talking about this for quite some time in

624
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 15: terms of how do you train your engineers. You train

625
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 15: Americans to do a lot of what Silicon Valley depends

626
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 15: on foreign workers to do. Does this impact innovation in

627
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 15: Silicon Valley and doesn't impact megacap stocks tech companies that

628
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 15: are dependent on this.

629
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 13: Well, from what we know of this administration, they ultimately

630
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 13: want to keep students who have been educated in the

631
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 13: US foreign students that have been educated in the US

632
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 13: in the US.

633
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: So really do us.

634
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 13: Think this is part of the negotiation with India and

635
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 13: UH and that when all is said and done, we're

636
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 13: probably going to loosen up the H one visa visa program.

637
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 15: But in the short term, is that going to have

638
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 15: an impact on tech companies.

639
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 13: I think what it's going to do is force tech

640
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 13: companies to do what they're already doing and that has

641
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 13: become more efficient. And the other thing to note is, uh,

642
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 13: you know, coding is changing dramatically. The number of coding

643
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 13: jobs and openings has dropped dramatically. Because of AI, all

644
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 13: of us can become coders. This is natural language programming.

645
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 13: Generative AI is prompting chat GBT to get your programs going.

646
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 13: We can all do that. That's simplifying it. But I

647
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 13: do think it gives you a sense of the kind

648
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 13: of productivity that possibilities that are possible, that that will

649
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 13: impact these tech companies longer term.

650
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: Posy Cappy with their with Bloomberg's Kritty Gupta. Okay, coming up,

651
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: the maker of the Aura ring is set to become

652
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 3: a eleven billion dollar company with a new Series E

653
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: financing round. We're going to speak to the CEO about

654
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 3: how the company plans to use that new funding and

655
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 3: a lot more that's next.

656
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.

657
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 3: Aura, the maker of the popular Aura health and fitness

658
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: Ring is closing in on a roughly eleven billion dollar valuation,

659
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 3: doubling its valuation from last November. That's according to Bloomberg Reporting.

660
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: Citing Bloomberg sources, the company is saying it's sold over

661
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: five and a half million fitness rings in total and

662
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: is on track to double its revenue this year. Or

663
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: A CEO, Tom Hale, joins us here in San Francisco.

664
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: Let's get this out the way. Bloomberg's reported a large

665
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: round eleven billion dollar valuation, a big raise.

666
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: Any comment please.

667
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 16: Well, you know you read the same reports that I do.

668
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 16: Congratulations on getting a school, but no, I don't have

669
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 16: any comments on rumors as of yet. But interesting to

670
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 16: see that that that news is starting to trickle.

671
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: Out and you appreciate why we have to ask. The

672
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: main point is that Aura has some momentum, so you

673
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 3: actually have shared some not just financial metrics, but operational metrics, right,

674
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 3: I would call it the installed base of customers has grown.

675
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 3: Just explain what that data signals to you, Tom, Yeah.

676
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 16: Well, we have shipped five point five million rings in

677
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 16: the history of the company, but half of those have

678
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 16: come in the last twelve months. So as we've doubled

679
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 16: our business. We've doubled the number of people have rings

680
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 16: just in the last twelve months alone, and we think

681
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 16: actually that's showing up in our revenue. Obviously, five hundred

682
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 16: million last year was what we reported. I think this

683
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 16: year we're going to do a billion dollars in revenue.

684
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 16: And if we think in twenty twenty six, we're probably

685
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 16: going to sell our ten millionth ring.

686
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: Tom Between Ed and I, we try to divide and

687
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 4: conquer and all the wearables and use them. And I'm

688
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 4: the orering user in the house, So full disclosure. And look,

689
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 4: we have seen real iterations and changes to the way

690
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 4: in which some of the data is helping the AI

691
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 4: agents is something that I'm really noticing the glue host

692
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 4: monitoring as well. How are you evolving to insually you

693
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 4: get a bigger demographic.

694
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 16: Well, you know, one of our core demographics is women,

695
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 16: and we've been expanding the value that we deliver for women.

696
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 16: I mean this last year we introduce pregnancy insights, menopause features,

697
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 16: and we've been continually to push on this idea of

698
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 16: the fertile window, which is helping women or couples conceive.

699
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 16: So that's one way, but as you think about the

700
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 16: areas of expansion for us, you know, we think about

701
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 16: metabolic because the one thing that you do more often

702
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 16: than sleep that affects your health is eat, and so

703
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 16: if we can help you build healthy habits around eating,

704
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 16: that's hugely powerful.

705
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 10: In addition, we're continue to expand in fitness.

706
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 16: We're looking very much at the ways that sleep and

707
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 16: can be played to interact with other parts of your

708
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 16: help to give you a holistic picture of your health.

709
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 16: And then this fall, of course a very exciting time

710
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 16: of year. Lots of exciting new things will be coming

711
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 16: down the pipe.

712
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: What's been so interesting is also who you've been selling to,

713
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: whether it's corporates or also institutions I'm thinking of the

714
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 4: US military or as large as business custom We understand

715
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 4: tens of thousands of serve as members using the rings.

716
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 4: You're doing fatigue tracking and doing research. But you also

717
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 4: got sort of caught in a pr firestorm, shall I say,

718
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 4: is suddenly there was a lot of well people would say, misinformation,

719
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 4: fate news around how you've had to integrate with impalenteersone

720
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 4: use of.

721
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 5: Fed start and what did you learn from that experience?

722
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 2: Tom?

723
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 5: You had to get on TikTok yourself.

724
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, yes, I think the truth is is that when

725
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 16: your customers are upset, you absolutely need to listen to them.

726
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 16: So we take the concerns that were raised incredibly seriously.

727
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 16: Privacy is a third rail, especially for women, and so

728
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 16: we took that incredibly seriously. I took to TikTok myself

729
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 16: to address our customers directly. But let me address the misinformation. Basically,

730
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 16: there is no scenario under which the consumer system and

731
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 16: the consumer data would be shared with anyone at Palenteer

732
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 16: or anyone in the government.

733
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 10: So that's just not a thing. They are two separate systems.

734
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 16: And of course the most important thing is that privacy

735
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 16: is like the most important thing that we do. We're

736
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 16: focused on your health, and so delivering your health means

737
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 16: protecting the precious and private information that's so sensitive, and

738
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 16: so that's just a core thing. It's a commitment. We

739
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 16: will never never sell your data and we will never

740
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 16: share your data without your consent. If you want to

741
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 16: share your data to be part of a scientific study,

742
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 16: we will absolutely enable that, and we'll give you the

743
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 16: tools and the power to control it.

744
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: So we've done so much on this program this year

745
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: on the electronics supply chain, you know, even on the

746
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 3: innovation side, miniaturization of electronics. But I think it's fair

747
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: to ask you how you're exposed to supply chain outside

748
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: of the United States, anything you've done to respond to

749
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: the policies of this administration in that respect.

750
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 16: You know, President Trump said he was going to raise

751
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 16: the tariff, so we took him at his word. We

752
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 16: were well prepared and we manage that quite effectively. We

753
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 16: don't manufacture in China. In fact, we opened up a

754
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 16: factory in the US in Mexico to help us manufacture

755
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 16: and meet that demand, and that turned out to be

756
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 16: a very foresightful decision. We also manufacture in Eastern Europe,

757
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 16: and now we'll be opening up a factory in the

758
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 16: United States in Fort Worth, and that actually will be

759
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 16: there to service our customers who are in the military.

760
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 10: There'll be special security.

761
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 16: And very stringent standards around the data that goes onto

762
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 16: the ring itself. So it's actually quite an exciting time

763
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 16: for us from a manufacturing standpoint because we've avoided most

764
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 16: of the fracasts around tak TARFFS.

765
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: And I have to ask you about some of the

766
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 3: news of the day in talent.

767
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: H one BBS is what we've discussed.

768
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: But with that footprint in the US you're building, what's

769
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 3: that look like for you in hiring competitively on engineering

770
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: in particular.

771
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, we are investing hugely in the United States.

772
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 16: In fact, we have about one thousand employees at AURA

773
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 16: now and over sixty percent of them are actually in

774
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 16: the US, so we have we're less exposed to that

775
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 16: kind of H one B risk. And since many of

776
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 16: our technical talent comes from Finland as well, but they

777
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 16: reside in Finland, it's less of a concern. That being said,

778
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 16: I think it's really important maybe for the entire tech

779
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 16: industry to really look at this and make sure that

780
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 16: we're solving this problem. I kind of subscribe to Kathy's point.

781
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 16: I actually think I think we're going to see something

782
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 16: where this is really a negotiating standard.

783
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 10: I'm not sure it's going.

784
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 4: To hold fascinating or a CEO Tom Hale come back soon.

785
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 4: We appreciate it's time now for talking tech and first up.

786
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 4: Morgan Stanley upgraded ASML to an overweight rating, joining the

787
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 4: likes of EBS and Research.

788
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 5: And Bullish on the stock, so shares of the company.

789
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 4: Have rallied thirty three percent from a September the second

790
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 4: low and the recent surge has propelled ASML to become

791
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: the biggest listed company in Europe evaluation of three hundred

792
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 4: seventy nine billion dollars plus shares of Samsung. They also

793
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 4: jumped after reports say it has one approval from Nvidia

794
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 4: for the use of its advanced memory chips.

795
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 5: Now the breakthrough by.

796
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 4: The Korean tech giant clears components for use in AI

797
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: accelerators that are essential to training AI models and would

798
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 4: allow Samsung to compete with Skhinex and Ali Baba is

799
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 4: hoping to lure established brands away from Amazon to its

800
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 4: own Ali Express e commerce site. Now calling to sources,

801
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 4: Ali Express is rolling out a new initiative to boost

802
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 4: customers and sales, promising lowing Shivig fees and offering to

803
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 4: take a lower cut of sales than Amazon.

804
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: Ed Yeah, stick with Amazon.

805
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: Amazon and three executive face off in court today against

806
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: the Federal Trade Commission Regulator alleges Amazon makes it easy

807
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: to enroll in its prime service and unduly difficult to

808
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: cancel in violation of customer protection laws. Let's get to

809
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Amazon reporter Spenser Sofa, You and I have discussed

810
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: this issue over the last few years. What do we

811
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: need to know about this case and the arguments Amazon's

812
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: going to try and make to defeat it.

813
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 8: Well, Amazon's looking at potentially finds well into the billions

814
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 8: of dollars around this, so it has to take this seriously.

815
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 8: You're looking at fines of fifty three thousand dollars per violation,

816
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 8: you know, over tens of millions of Prime subscribers, so

817
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 8: it's a rather big deal. The Federal Trade Commission is

818
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 8: arguing that Amazon's just made it complicated and deliberately difficult

819
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 8: for people to cancel Prime if they don't want it,

820
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 8: And now the Amazon is trying to argue, well, you know,

821
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 8: there's all kinds of ways that people can cancel and

822
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 8: all kinds of different flows, and they're really trying to

823
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 8: make it look like there's a very large number of

824
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 8: ways people can cancel to try to minimize its exposure

825
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 8: to this, to any potential any potential violations. Jury selection

826
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 8: is supposed to start today, Trials expected to drag into October,

827
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 8: and you know, it is kind of a test case

828
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 8: around subscriptions and how easy it is to sign up

829
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 8: for things on your phone when you're on the move,

830
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 8: and how hard it is to cancel Spenser.

831
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 4: Briefly, the FTC is also looking at such advertising practices

832
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: of Amazon. More broadly, they are in the eye of

833
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 4: the storm when it comes to regulators a bit.

834
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's an interesting phenomenon because a lot of

835
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 8: this stuff is kind of holdover from the previous administration,

836
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 8: and there's been a lot of questions about how Trump's

837
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 8: FTC will will carry on some of these things. But

838
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 8: Amazons still feel on the heat, still looking at fresh

839
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 8: allegations on the advertising front and how it sets pricing

840
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 8: on these on these automated auctions around search advertising that

841
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 8: you see on the site. And now there's also the

842
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 8: consumer protection claim, so they're not out of the woods yet,

843
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 8: even though the administration.

844
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 4: Has changed Meg'spenser Sofa, setting us straight ahead of that

845
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 4: unfolding litigation that does it. In this edition of Bloomberg

846
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 4: Tech though, and we've got to check out the podcast.

847
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, a big way to start that. We check out

848
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: the pod.

849
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 3: You know where to find it on all the Bloomberg

850
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: platforms and online, Apple, Spotify and iHeart Buckle up.

851
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: So only Monday. This is Bloomberg Tech