WEBVTT - RIP Rob Reiner 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.880 Native Lampod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.080 Reisent Choice Media. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:09.080 Welcome home, y'all. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.080 This is episode of Native Lampid where we gave it 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.200 to you straight no chaser this holiday season. I am 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.160 your co host Tiffany Cross here with Angela Rye, but 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.919 Kari Sellers and Andrew Gillum. That's right, ladies, first back 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.079 in the lead, chare and we got a busy show 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.160 for y'allday, what are we talking about, guys. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:28.720 So much? 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.960 We have some tragedy that of course struck Brown University's 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:37.839 campus with two students dying summing critical condition. And my godsend, 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.720 happens to be a student there at Brown University, plays 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.320 on the football team, but is an academic on academic scholarship. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:45.960 And he will join us today. His name is f 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:46.400 Ali Ho. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.480 He'll join us to talk about that shooting that is devastating. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.240 We're going to definitely keep them in our prayers. I 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.080 just want to take a point of personal privilege here 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.240 before we get too far down in this and give 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.240 a shout out to the South Carolina State Bulldog Bos 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.440 who are there HBCU national champions. I think it's necessary 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.160 for me to say that with UH. With Andrew Gillham 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.840 on this podcast as well, I think we all need 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.680 to give credence to Chenness Burry and the Sacon State Bulldogs. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.000 I was in Atlanta this past weekend beat preview A 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.280 and M along those same lines. We're going to keep 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.480 it in the football family and talk about something that 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.240 has kind of shocked the cultural world. Coach Sharone Moore, UH, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.800 coach at University of Michigan. He crashed out a little 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.399 bit and UH we'll talk about all the dynamics around 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.200 his what is now infamous cash crash out as the 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.400 first African American head coach in the history of University 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:40.399 of Michigan football. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.880 You can also say cash out, he's cashed out as 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:44.560 well as. 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.720 Get say that he out of cash. 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.600 Yeah, that's too Andrew. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:50.680 What you got? 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:51.720 That's true? 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:52.160 You know. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.160 The tragedy's unfortunately continued this week, and I wanted to 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.680 reflect just for a moment on I think someone who 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.800 was mutually known to a number of us, Rob Reiner, 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:09.239 his wife Michelle, and they're untimely and very tragic passing. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:11.960 Just to reflect a little bit on some I think 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.119 interesting interconnections that different ones of us may have. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.440 We do want to kick off the show with Rob Reiner. Andrew, 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.840 you and I both had a personal relationship with I 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.680 and Michelle, and on our production call when we were 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.720 talking about the show, you shared that you guys had lunch, 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.400 I believe breakfast when you were on the campaign trail, 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.760 and I've certainly broken bread with them. But want to 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.480 hear your story about your time and just really quickly 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.400 before so our viewers know. This week, Rob Reiner and 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.400 his wife Michelle were found deceased in their home in 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.600 their Los Angeles home, and what came out later this 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.840 week is that their son Nick is being charged with 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:59.280 those murders. So very tragic story all around, and even 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.360 our ignorant ass, remorseless ass president weighed in on it. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.880 But I would love for us to just first focus 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.720 on the beautiful life and the beautiful person that Rob 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.799 Reiner was, he and his lovely wife Michelle. So, Andrew, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.359 what was your experience with. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.960 Yes, me had actually for those who who know me 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.000 maybe followed the campaign a little bit, you know that 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.040 Norman Lear and I were very close. I worked for 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.000 the organization he founded, People for the American Way and 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:34.720 people for the American Way Foundation for all the years 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.680 of my early career working and movement work, and got 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.400 very close to Norman and his wife Lynn. And as 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.080 a result of that, if you knew Norman, then you 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:51.520 knew Rob because Norman in some ways kind of discovered 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.840 him even though Carl rein Or his father, was already 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.160 in the entertainment business. He tells his story of playing 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.320 jacks with one of Norman's daughters, one of his older daughters, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.440 and Norman reflecting to Carl, you know, hey, that kid's 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.400 kind of funny, and Carl basically saying that kid, no, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.480 he's a mute. He doesn't talk. You know, his father, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:16.880 Carl didn't really observe him as being someone who could 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.040 really be a participant in this very outwardly facing business 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:24.080 of entertainment, and Norman saw something different, ended up, of course, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.120 casting him for the role that so many of us 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.920 came to know him as. And that was me head 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.680 from all in the family show that you know, we 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.119 probably could debate this another time that I would question 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.120 whether or not could even take liftoff in today's environment. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.160 It just held such a vivid mirror up to the 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.839 country through the use of satire about the kind of 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:53.640 overt discrimination and racism that existed, and Rob played a 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.279 very memorable role as sort of the liberal student and 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.240 the son in law to Archie Bunker. That again, I 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.039 think held up a really important vivid mirror mirror to 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.440 the country to see itself reflected. But through satire, which 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.960 I think is sometimes the best way of helping us 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.799 reckon with some of the more difficult issues in our community. 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.920 We got Rob was a mainstay around people for the 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.680 American Waves events that we would all hold each year 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.839 in Los Angeles. And actually during the campaign, my campaign 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:24.479 for governor, I made a number of trips out to 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.599 Los Angeles and on one of those occasions got to 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.880 sit down with Rob and Norman Lear for lunch. And 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.760 you know, frankly, it was a very welcome actually after 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.320 giving him a quick update of the race, of a 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.159 very welcome distraction from the race for governor, just watching 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.560 them and listening to them and laughing. But a personality 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.120 that's just so big, a heart that's so big, a 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.279 man who cared so big. I didn't know Michelle, as 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.880 you know as well, but could only imagine that a 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.920 person with such a huge heart, could only find his 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.040 match in someone with equally as large a heart. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:03.560 And so. 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.560 You know, prayers up for him in his family and 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.839 the very tragic circumstances surrounding his passing in Tiffany, I 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.200 know you also had your experiences with them, and I 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:14.839 love to hear. 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.400 Well, I want to be celebratory of his life because 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.800 he was such a staple in my life before we 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.840 even had a chance to meet. He was not, as 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.359 you said, the iconic character meathead on all in the family, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.360 but he also like my early, my earliest movies that 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.680 I was so addicted to. He was a producer, so 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:38.880 stand by me, that was one of my favorite movies, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.200 The Princess Bride. I still know every line from that movie. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.200 When Harry met Sally is one of the movies I 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:49.280 watch every Christmas. Misery of You Good Men, Ghost of Mississippi. 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.200 He was so conscious and so talented, and so I 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.720 just really enjoyed when I got a chance to put 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.600 a face to the name and a personality to this 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.440 person who had shaped my childhood, much of my childhood. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.120 But the sad part of this is so. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.760 When I this is probably twenty eighteen, I was in 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.000 La and Rob knew I was going to be there, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.280 and he asked if I wanted to come out to 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.280 Brentwood and have lunch with him and his wife Michelle, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:15.200 or if I want to come to their home and 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.280 have dinner. And so because of my schedule, we ended 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.760 up having lunch and we had the most wonderful time. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.400 I will honor their privacy about some of the teams 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.480 they shared, but the crazy parties. They were talking to 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.200 me about their son Nick and how many problems and 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:33.200 how many challenges they were having and who knew you 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.560 know that years later that you know he would be 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.360 charged with their murders, which is so sad. But they 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.320 were asking how I grew up. I was telling them, 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.680 and they were kind of debating between them about how 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.760 to handle their son, and it was just so awful. 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.080 Another one of my favorite shows is Curb Your Enthusiasm 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.960 with Larry David. It is just an amazing show. I 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.200 think in my younger years I was like, Larry David 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.480 is an asshole, and my older years, I'm like, Larry 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.800 David had it right. So when I watched now, I 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.120 have a completely different take. And so Rob and Larry 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.080 David are really close friends, and I was telling them 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.520 how much I love Curb Your Enthusiasm. And there's an 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.360 episode where they go out to dinner. Larry David and 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.640 his wife Cheryl played by Cheryl Hines. They go to 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.600 dinner with another couple and so this other couple they 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.840 treat Larry and his wife to dinner and Larry thanks 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.280 the man. He says, you know, thank you so much 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.080 for dinner. And the wife is there and she's like, okay, 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.560 well what about me? And he's like, yo, okay, like 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.560 what about you. I thanked your husband. He paid for dinner. 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:31.760 She's like, well, we paid for dinner. It's our money. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.199 And he's like, you don't work. Is your husband's money. 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.360 And it gets into this whole thing. So when I'm 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.920 telling Rob and Michelle's story, and Michelle's like, you know, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.480 he based that episode on us, that happened with. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:43.040 Us, and. 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:46.840 He only thanksout. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.000 So I just I love their whole like friend crew, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.160 their friendship. And he was such a wonderful man when 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.600 I got my show. He was so celebratory. He was 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.480 always on joy sale Joy read, and he also had 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.400 a close friendship. So I just honor his talent and 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.960 so much of his life that he lived on screen 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.720 behind the camera, but also as a really good patriot 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.840 in today's society and all the things that he did, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.520 he supported so many causes that benefit the greater good, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.880 and so I want us to focus on that and 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.160 highlight that. But I do know, Angela, we were talking 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.040 about on the call that it was really disgusting to 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.719 see Donald Trump post on truth Social. I don't think 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.120 it's worth really revisiting what he said, but it was 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.520 just really ugly things that Donald Trump said because he's 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.320 a child, a petulant child, and so I know you 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:42.760 were really upset by that, Angela. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.280 So curious your thoughts about all of it. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.199 Yeah, And I hate to do this, but just to 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.120 refresh the viewers recollection or actually give them some window 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.120 into the soul of who this man is who now 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.320 sits in the chair as commander in chief of this union, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.160 I think should actually roll the clip. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.280 A number of Republicans have denounced your statement on True's 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.079 Social after the murder of Rob Reiner. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.560 Do you stand by that post? 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.760 Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.880 was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned. 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.439 He said he knew it was false affect. It is 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.040 the exact opposite that I was a friend of Russia 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.480 controlled by Russia. You know, it was the Russia hoax. 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.319 He was one of the people behind it. I think 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.520 he heard himself in career wise, he became like a 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.680 deranged person Trump derangement syndrome. So I was not a 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.559 fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:37.920 or form. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:39.440 I thought he was very bad for our country. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.000 Yeah, so tif you normally say the cheese stands alone, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.960 and it's normally about somebody standing on the side of righteousness. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.840 This cheese cheesy nut is standing, you know, clearly, like 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.040 not even the fact that he could use the words 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:59.360 deranged after the type of killing, like gruesome murder they suffered, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.840 as is alleged, I think is so unfortunate. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.920 And this country is run by this man who. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:10.520 Will get out regularly promote information that it has no 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:16.199 you know foundation. In fact, he will sound so callous. Actually, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.320 I'm actually surprised about what he said about Brown, because 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.640 at least he found some compassion for Brown students and 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.240 for the people who suffer that tragedy on the campus. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.800 But it is remarkable to me the things that come 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.679 out of his mouth, and I know that at some 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.520 point I should stop being surprised, but there just is 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.640 no floor, you know, there is just absolutely no floor. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.360 So for people to be suffering like this during the 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.920 holiday season or at all, and then for him to 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.640 say anything about some Trump derangement syndrome, which is a 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.680 completely made up met I mean, it's just anyway. I 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.440 wanted to play that because, you know, it's shocking to 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:53.959 me that there's someone who could be the commander in 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.880 chief and say something so ugly, even in times when 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.000 people really disagree, you never wish death on anyone. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:00.960 These are things that we know. 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.960 I don't just think their Christian principles certainly rooted in 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.280 the church, but there are people that just find and 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.280 tap into their humanity and he just cannot do that. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.800 So I wanted to play that because I think it's 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.600 interesting that they gave him an opportunity to say, you 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.560 know what, I went too far in truth social you 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.760 know what, I should have done something different, and he 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:20.280 just doubled down into bs. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.679 You know, it's a great it's not a great, but 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.040 it's interesting to contrast that to how Rob Reiner responded 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.439 to the death of Charlie Kirk with such great humanity, 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.800 and even though on opposite sides of probably every side 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.800 of most issues political still have the human compassion, the 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:44.440 human awareness, the human experience to say, this should not 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.160 have happened, and it shouldn't happen to anybody, regardless of 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.000 where we stand on the political divide. But that's just 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.520 you who. That's who Rob Reiner was, and this is 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.959 who Donald Trump is. He's a megalomaniac and in every condition, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.560 in every situation, he's got to figure out how to 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.839 make it about himself. And I think that that is 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.720 I don't know how far medicine goes and sort of 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.559 handicapping that kind of a condition, but I do think 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.360 that there's something the synapses are not all working, they're 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.719 not all flaring, that caused you to deepen into your 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.400 humanity when every situation has to be somehow converted to 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.640 being about you, no matter what it is. 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.440 No, I'm just listening. I it's it's hard to dive 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.520 into a discussion as robust as this because I didn't 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:42.800 have the personal relationship with Rob Ryiner, and uh, you know, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.520 I think it's fascinating to see the individuals in your orbit, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.800 because I was questioning whether or not his death would 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.520 actually break through the fourth wall, because you know, all 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.440 in the family was a little bit before my time. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.280 I did love him in Woofle Wall Street. I think 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.600 that that was probably the best acting scene I've ever 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.920 seen in my life with he and Leeho DiCaprio and 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.840 they're discussing the expense report. Yeah, and it's just it 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.560 was like a room full of amazing actors in that space. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.440 But to hear you all talk about it shows that 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.680 it did kind of break through that fourth wall, that 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.760 it has permeated more mainstream thought because of his impact, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.840 and I think that that is symblematic or emblematic of 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:28.320 his impact. That's kind of first. Second, I do think 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.000 it's death highlights two political issues that I would love 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.480 to hear you all's input on. One is the role 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.960 of or how we discuss and talk about mental health 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.480 in his country, whether or not it's Rob's son, or 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.400 whether or not it's the heavy dose of psychopathy that 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.440 our president suffers from, and how we address it and 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.400 the narcissism. I would talked about this on CNN the 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.160 other night and got a bunch of doctors who you know, 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.640 a lot of black doctors were saying that the word 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.120 you missed Bokari is narcissism, and we don't really talk 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.040 about it enough. I don't talk about it enough in 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.000 association with him. I try to stay away from diagnosing 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.360 people with mental health issues because I'm sure I can 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.960 be diagnosed with enough. But I do think it highlights 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:14.040 both of those things. And then the other issue is 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:23.400 I am fascinated by the role of Christian nationalism or 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.640 Christian conservatism or white evangelical Christianity, whichever one of those, 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.720 or however you want to couch it, and they're coddling 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.840 of Donald Trump. And I love to hear you guys 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.320 dig into it, because you know, you have somebody who 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.720 has a prayer counsel, you have somebody who has that 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.520 Christian nationalist whatever, however you want to phrase it. And 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.600 I don't know what the correct definition of it is. 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.920 But he has that block of this country behind him, 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.240 and yet he doesn't have that walk that we would 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.400 all aspire to have. He's not on the same journey 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.960 that we would even though we fail. I mean I 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.640 fail every day I wake up. You know, that's a 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.920 part of that journey. How does that work politically? And 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.120 how does that? How do we how do we crack 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.480 into that? Do we crack into that? Is it worth 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.360 cracking into it? Or do you all see that as 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.400 not an issue as you look at Rob Ryer's death, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.720 because that's the first thing, or one of the first things, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.400 because I didn't have a personal relationship that I thought 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.720 was all of these Christian conservatives supporting a man who 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.560 literally has no ethos. It's two Corinthians. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.480 I think it's never been in Bible school in his life. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.360 I think this is something that the media calls them. 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.600 I don't call them Christians or evangelicals, and the data 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.920 supports that. You know, the and for a long time, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.280 I'm glad you said white evangelicals vacari because for a 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.160 long time the white was silent. They would just say evangelicals. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.040 The white was silent, but the hypocrisy was loud. During 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.200 Trump's first term. I'm sure you guys know this. The 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:59.280 number of Americans who identified as evangelicals expanded under his 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.880 first term, firmly in his corners. 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:02.760 In twenty sixteen. 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.199 Now more than eighty percent of white evangelicals voted for 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.520 Donald Trump in the last election. In twenty twenty four, 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:11.760 and I know, I think of all the black women 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.000 who are you know, Christian toten Bible toten deacon board 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.520 members in people in the pews every Sunday, and that 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.960 group has never been referred to as evangelicals. And I 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.560 think research came out from Pew that reported sixty nine 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:32.719 percent of these white evangelicals say they only attend religious 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.679 services two or three times a year or less, emphasis 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.280 on the or less. So I wonder what did they 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.920 do to earn this title of evangelicals or Christians? 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.960 Well maybe, I mean I look at the like, I'm 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.159 in the South, Andrew's in the South. And one of 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:53.600 the things I can tell you about being in the 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.840 South is we all have that one first Baptist church 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:03.080 that's white town does downtown and it's all white. It's 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.520 literally all white and a negro insight, right. And then 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.919 you got a Baptist church that's probably like in the 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.080 black side of town. That's huge, right. And I'm talking 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.240 about the fact that these the people who go to 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.760 First Baptists in the heart of every southern city downtown, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.639 ninety eight percent of them still voted for Donald Trump. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.840 Now we can call them whatever we want to, and 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.879 that that is kind of our if we're ever And 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.679 this is a bold statement for me to make, and 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.399 this is indicative of this Rob Ryner situation. And this 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.600 is where this is. This is how I take the 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.840 pressure off of the four of us and changing the world, 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.560 because I say, the country will never change unless white 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.879 male evangelicals want it to. And I just firmly believe 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.639 that no matter how much we push a prad the 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.680 country will never change its direction, of course, unless white 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.560 male evangelicals wanted to. And I look at these individuals 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.560 still standing behind this man who went to the depths 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.720 of hell to talk about somebody who had the heart 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.600 that you all described in the terms that he did, you. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.920 Know, Butcury, I sort of when I hear the term evangelical, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.480 to me, it has much more of a political connotation 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.679 than it does a religious one. And part of this 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.440 for me probably comes out of the you know, the 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:25.000 movement helmed by the radical right, the quote radical right 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:30.560 evangelicals who were attempting to transform frankly take hostage Christianity 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.439 religious religiosity in this country and bastardize it into a 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:43.520 political terminology that they could then convert religious believers, Christian believer, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:51.560 Christian white religious believers into a political commodity. They were 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:57.000 evolved into a vote block that was largely intended one 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:04.240 to further codifyde and white male supremacy in the family 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:10.320 and in community, and moreover, to then control the bodies 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:15.240 of their women, white women largely, but women writ large 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.399 because the impact was cast so broadly on all women 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.439 and their reproductive rights. They organized, you know, through the 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.400 seventies and early eighties on television as many of us, 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:34.960 you know, sort of recall, and were largely weaponized during 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:40.600 the Reagan administration to again advance a political electoral outcome. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.159 And so I don't give them the grace, the credit, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:51.800 the merit of having religious favor on their side, or 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.280 even deep religious beliefs on their side. I see control, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.800 I see white male supremacy, and I see the bastard 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.520 of real faith. Uh in favor of creating a political 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.919 block that could be negotiated with, can be moved, you know, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.240 from from here to there, largely on the Republican side, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.920 to to stretch their muscle in the context of primaries 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.480 to produce a candidate who would move their political agenda 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:22.840 and I think that that's what the You know, so 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.720 the people who who sort of began this conversation on 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:30.640 the right actually hope to hope to achieve was a 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:36.040 political heavyweight and not a religious test, not even a 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:40.040 faith test, not not the production of a more religious 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:45.000 or god faithful country. They wanted a more white male 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:51.520 uh hegemonist society, and they weaponized and then bastardized faith 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.240 to achieve that end. So they don't get real credit 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.280 with me. It is a political term as far as 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:02.840 I'm concerned. And where where people who might consider themselves 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.120 truly faithful on the right come down in this sort 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.480 of equation, in my opinion, is that they have made 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.479 their peace with being in common cause over the issue 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.960 largely of reproductive health and of controlling women's bodies uh 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:25.040