WEBVTT - Mitch Ryder

0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sutch podcast.

0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.000
<v Speaker 1>My guest today is the one and only legendary Mitch Wider,

0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.720
<v Speaker 1>who has a brand new album with Love produced by

0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Don Was. Mitch. How did this album come to be?

0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I called Don and he agreed.

0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.960
<v Speaker 2>As a result of I signed a new recording contract

0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 2>with a German label, which we'll get into probably a

0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:45.239
<v Speaker 2>little bit deeper as we talk. But I signed the

0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.239
<v Speaker 2>contract and I had choice of producer.

0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:50.520
<v Speaker 1>So when did you meet Don?

0:00:51.720 --> 0:01:00.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Gosh, I want to say seventy eight. He hired

0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:06.120
<v Speaker 2>me to do a voice for something and then we

0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:11.240
<v Speaker 2>established a relationship and I ended up being a guest

0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.800
<v Speaker 2>on one of his albums called Was and that Was

0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:21.000
<v Speaker 2>and then we cut a dance single and then I

0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.120
<v Speaker 2>did two tracks for one of my German albums with

0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:29.680
<v Speaker 2>him as producing. So we're entrenched in LA and recorded

0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.880
<v Speaker 2>a really nice album out there called The Promise.

0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what makes Don the producer he is? How is

0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.080
<v Speaker 1>he different from the other people you've worked with.

0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:49.960
<v Speaker 2>We have the same sensibilities regional with regard to music

0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:57.280
<v Speaker 2>and our exposure to him and the cultural differences inside

0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the community. And I mean the guy he's produced the

0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan. He got Grammys for for People.

0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.840
<v Speaker 2>He's just very, very talented man.

0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.560
<v Speaker 1>So on this album, you wrote all the songs. Did

0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.440
<v Speaker 1>you write them for the album or did you have

0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.240
<v Speaker 1>them ready?

0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I wrote them for the album, and it's kind of

0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:31.200
<v Speaker 2>either autobiographical because of the actual experience or the observation,

0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.160
<v Speaker 2>but it is what it's about, is my life really,

0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and segments of it little visual you can imagine you

0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.960
<v Speaker 2>know what they were by the lyrics. But I love it.

0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.360
<v Speaker 2>I love it. I think it's a beautiful album, and

0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm very proud of it. I think it's really really

0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:00.040
<v Speaker 2>high on my chart of expectations for myself as a

0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:01.880
<v Speaker 2>writer and a singer.

0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.399
<v Speaker 1>Now we're doing this podcast, but we live in an

0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.480
<v Speaker 1>internet world. It's hard to get the message out to people.

0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.799
<v Speaker 1>What are you doing to make people aware of the record?

0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Pretty much leaving that up to the record company. It's

0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:20.440
<v Speaker 2>their responsibility. I put out quite a few albums on

0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.280
<v Speaker 2>my own label, but I never did have the funding

0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.680
<v Speaker 2>or the budget to go out and do it the

0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.160
<v Speaker 2>way it's supposed to be done today. And that was

0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:34.720
<v Speaker 2>frustrating because there was some remarkable music that went unnoticed.

0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.960
<v Speaker 2>So I'm doing what I can. I'm doing every interview

0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I can get, and I'm honored to be on your show.

0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>But that's what we're doing, and we're doing just interviews, interviews,

0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and we're making Last night we were we got home

0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:58.200
<v Speaker 2>about four o'clock am. We had done a shoot, a

0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.480
<v Speaker 2>video shoot for the the existing album, the new one,

0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.600
<v Speaker 2>and we've got a couple more of those planned. We've

0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.160
<v Speaker 2>already released two, so we're doing that the right way.

0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.760
<v Speaker 2>But you can't really there's a whole bunch of issues

0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.719
<v Speaker 2>that would explain why we're having a problem breaking through.

0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.279
<v Speaker 2>And since you're the guy with the questions, I'll just

0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.440
<v Speaker 2>wait for you to ask the right one.

0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Who is the record company Roof Records RUF? But do

0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:38.040
<v Speaker 1>you tell me more about them? It's a small label,

0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:44.880
<v Speaker 1>but not the smallest I've ever signed to, but they're very,

0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.680
<v Speaker 1>very good at well, here's what they did with my

0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:53.520
<v Speaker 1>live recording with double Vinyl that debut at number three,

0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:59.120
<v Speaker 1>I believe, on the Billboard charts, on the Blues charts,

0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and the existing album, the one we're promoting now, that debuted

0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.000
<v Speaker 1>at number one. So he clearly knows his business with

0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:14.279
<v Speaker 1>regards to the Billboard Blues charts. What I need is

0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.720
<v Speaker 1>to make that transfer over into the we used to

0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.320
<v Speaker 1>call the hot one hundred if you remember that, of course,

0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.000
<v Speaker 1>And you know what was beautiful about that.

0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:30.160
<v Speaker 2>You really had a microscopic picture of the nation's needs

0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:35.039
<v Speaker 2>for music and what made them feel good. Because the

0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.159
<v Speaker 2>way they formulated it was they would take every week

0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the existing amount of radio play rotations and sales numbers,

0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.720
<v Speaker 2>combine them and you end up with a top ten

0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.880
<v Speaker 2>where you could have a country Western song be number one,

0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.239
<v Speaker 2>a polk on number nine, and Mitch Ryer is somewhere

0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.880
<v Speaker 2>in the middle there. And that was a reflection based

0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.640
<v Speaker 2>on that week's activities in the business. But we don't

0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.360
<v Speaker 2>have that today. We have a million different categories.

0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, the other difference is you knew every song in

0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.039
<v Speaker 1>the top ten, whether you liked it or not, because

0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:13.960
<v Speaker 1>you were listening to the radio and you heard it.

0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you could turn volume down if you wanted to,

0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:17.400
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, better than the news, the monitor news on NBC.

0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.320
<v Speaker 1>My father would want to listen to that in the car.

0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.320
<v Speaker 1>So what kind of budget did they give you for

0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the record?

0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:34.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that there was a contract developed between

0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Don Was and Thomas Roof, the owner of the Roof

0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Record Company. So I'm not privy to that.

0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you talk about Don Was also being from Michigan.

0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Does everybody in Michigan in the music business know each other?

0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.520
<v Speaker 2>We know enough to not step on each other's toes.

0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:01.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, this is an interesting musical city, Detroit, and

0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.159
<v Speaker 2>the talent comes from all over Michigan. Really, when you

0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:11.080
<v Speaker 2>think about it, I'm not sure why it's that way,

0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.560
<v Speaker 2>but I know that there are a few cities that,

0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.840
<v Speaker 2>over the decades have established themselves in one way or

0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.040
<v Speaker 2>another for being a musical city. I don't know if

0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.160
<v Speaker 2>you remember the Chicago blues wave, or if you remember

0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.680
<v Speaker 2>the Boston the music that came out of Boston for

0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.320
<v Speaker 2>a while, or the music that came out of Atlanta

0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.480
<v Speaker 2>in New Orleans that goes way back to New Orleans thing,

0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it's it's like example, the group Nirvana,

0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean they brought to life Seattle. You know, it's

0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.200
<v Speaker 2>and once that happens, once somebody breaks through in any city,

0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the record companies, it's like watching a carcass on the

0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.720
<v Speaker 2>desert floor being descended upon by all the creatures that

0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.040
<v Speaker 2>are to eat it. They just milk it dry, sign

0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.920
<v Speaker 2>up everything that can move or pluck a string, and

0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.840
<v Speaker 2>then go on to the next fortune. De choice less

0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:17.200
<v Speaker 2>because we had Motown, which was just a hit factory,

0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.560
<v Speaker 2>and we had it that way, but we were frustrated

0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:30.560
<v Speaker 2>as young white rock and rollers. There was no outlet

0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.520
<v Speaker 2>for us. Nobody had broken through nationally. It was just

0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:40.520
<v Speaker 2>totally controlled by Motown. But my personal experience in music

0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.240
<v Speaker 2>never went into that rock and roll cave. I kind

0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:50.480
<v Speaker 2>of nurtured myself, fed myself and gave myself what I

0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:55.320
<v Speaker 2>loved and needed out of the black community, sort of

0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.040
<v Speaker 2>an urban setting. At at a very young age, I started

0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:04.679
<v Speaker 2>to transporting myself down into the forbidden areas of Detroit,

0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.120
<v Speaker 2>working a lot of places I wasn't supposed to be.

0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.480
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I was even hitchhiking down. I wasn't old

0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:19.319
<v Speaker 2>enough to drive when I started going downtown. Yeah, it's beautiful,

0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.800
<v Speaker 2>that experience. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I couldn't trade anything

0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:32.480
<v Speaker 2>for it. It has too much value. It's priceless. It

0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.240
<v Speaker 2>formed what I learned about music. Originally, I had a

0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.400
<v Speaker 2>vocal instructor in high school and he was putting me

0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:46.600
<v Speaker 2>in classical tournaments at Tri County competitions, and I was

0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:51.480
<v Speaker 2>winning a lot, and he was very sad. And in fact,

0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.920
<v Speaker 2>he's still alive. His name is Dell Towers. He's about

0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.199
<v Speaker 2>ninety four. I just speak to him every once in

0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.080
<v Speaker 2>a while on the phone because I love what he

0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.760
<v Speaker 2>taught me. He taught me how to read and write music,

0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:07.760
<v Speaker 2>and he helped me develop my singing. But when I

0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.800
<v Speaker 2>broke away from the classical the journey that he was

0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:17.400
<v Speaker 2>leading me on and started. It was a real slow

0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of transition in the beginning, because then I fell

0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:25.000
<v Speaker 2>in love with the voice of Johnny Mathis. But after

0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.600
<v Speaker 2>that I began looking for something with a little more energy.

0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.880
<v Speaker 2>And it occurred to me one day. I was listening

0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.760
<v Speaker 2>to the radio, of course, and I hear Pat Boone

0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.240
<v Speaker 2>white shoelaces or something like that. I'm not sure he

0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:47.199
<v Speaker 2>did white shoelaces, but it was some sort of moody, mellow,

0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:53.240
<v Speaker 2>really milky, watered down thing. And right after that they

0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.480
<v Speaker 2>put on a little Richard and I just about lost

0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:03.320
<v Speaker 2>my mind. I mean the energy, uh yeah, the energy

0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and the attack and the and the little Richard saying

0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to be here. I am here. You know,

0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:17.680
<v Speaker 2>I am the best, and he would say things. It

0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.920
<v Speaker 2>was like a young Muhammad Ali, you know, whom I

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.120
<v Speaker 2>had the good fortune of getting to know over the years.

0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.240
<v Speaker 2>So it was easy for me then to make that

0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:36.800
<v Speaker 2>transition from classical into rhythm and blues. I had the

0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.800
<v Speaker 2>ability to do it. And it's just simple. It's basically,

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.520
<v Speaker 2>as a singer, what you're doing is less breathing from

0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:51.720
<v Speaker 2>the stomach and more meddling with the vocal cords. It's

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:57.680
<v Speaker 2>not a sound, it's just it gives you a better

0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:03.439
<v Speaker 2>command over the over the words in my mind.

0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back a step. When did you first

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:08.520
<v Speaker 1>become aware of botown?

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Jeez, I don't think I was. I might have been

0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 2>a freshman in high school. But Smokey Robinson was the

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 2>very first one I heard. Or no, I'm sorry, Jackie

0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Wilson did reap Petite before he signed with the label

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.520
<v Speaker 2>he signed with in New Jersey. But Smokey came out

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:31.000
<v Speaker 2>with a a song called way over There and that

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.080
<v Speaker 2>was the first motown record I heard. And his voice

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:40.520
<v Speaker 2>was so beautiful. You know, there's I identify other artists

0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 2>by they become timeless to me, not for what words

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 2>they sang, but their voices. I fall in love with

0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>that immediately. First. You can go a lot of places

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 2>in the world and you know you'll be hearing the

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Wreatha Franklin. It's the same as listening to Nat King Cole.

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Those are very distinctive voices. They they have longevity, they're

0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 2>they're different from other voices. It's frustrating because a lot

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 2>of the young new singers that try to get to

0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>where Aretha was, they may have the talent, but it

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:30.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem like they have the passion for it. So

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, you run into that. You hear that as

0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 2>you listen. And I listen to everything. I love all

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.360
<v Speaker 2>kinds of music, and I've made a career out of

0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.320
<v Speaker 2>cherry picking. If I go to write music for an album,

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I really do explore. I want to touch everything I

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.400
<v Speaker 2>ever heard, and I want to own it for a

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 2>little while, and then I want to move on to

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>something different, something new. It's just an amazing world. This

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>lifetime dedication to music, what it's done to me, I'm thankful.

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm very thankful for it.

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>So you know, those of us who did not grow

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 1>up in that area, there was the Motown House and

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.640
<v Speaker 1>there were all these acts. Were they accessible? Was out

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 1>someplace you would drive by, or they were people you

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 1>just saw on stage and hurt on the radio.

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 2>No, I worked with him. I worked on the stage

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:34.120
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of them.

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 1>But when you first before you became a star, or

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 1>did you work with them before you became a star?

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah. There was a dance hall near Detroit, and

0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 2>that's where the kids would come to to really party

0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 2>and dance. And what it was was all the lonely people.

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 2>They sat against the wall in this big circle, and

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 2>then the dance floor, of course, was in the middle,

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 2>and you'd make that long sort of journey very slowly

0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.320
<v Speaker 2>to the other side and asked a lady or a

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 2>man if they wanted to dance. And that's how it was.

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 2>But we had developed a show. We are jumping ahead

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 2>of my career at this point.

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Let's not jump ahead, let's go back.

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Well, I started recording when I was sixteen, but

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 2>my first single out.

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back even before that. So who were your parents?

0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Where did they come from? My dad was an only

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 1>child and he sang on the radio. That's back in

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the day, you know, right before the war. The second

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.520
<v Speaker 1>World War, big band music was the thing even through

0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 1>the war. It was the bit of the thing, and

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 1>you had all these all and he sang and the

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 1>band was hired by the radio station to back the performers.

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 1>And he told me stories about like Danny Thomas before

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 1>he was Danny Thomas. He came through and he sang

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 1>at that studio was in downtown Detroit, and so that

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 1>was what he was going for. He was going to

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>be a singer. And then the my mom, she was

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 1>from Tennessee. She made the journey up to Detroit near

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>the end of the depression, right, you know, when the

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>war was starting, and because she needed they needed work,

0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 1>they needed to live, and there were jobs of plenty

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 1>up here, you know, in the arsenal of democracy. In fact,

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 1>we grew up by a tank plant where they manufactured tanks.

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 1>And my mom heard him on the radio and she

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 1>wondered what face was attached to that that voice that

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 1>she was attracted to. So her and one of her

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:12.960
<v Speaker 1>girlfriends went down to the studio to be in the

0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.840
<v Speaker 1>audience one night, and that's how they met a little bit.

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Do you know the story, Specifically, she's in the audience,

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 1>he's on stage, how did they actually meet.

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, nobody's ever told me, but it was in the studio.

0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>That's the place where they met. I don't know what

0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of communications they were and what kind of what

0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of pickup lines she might have had her he

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 2>might have had. You know, that's even too old for me.

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the earliest part of my life that I remember.

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that's really funny was when Dwight

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Eisenhoer was running for president, they gave out swag and

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 2>he was given out lucky strikes which had the red

0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.080
<v Speaker 2>circle in the white riding, but the package itself was

0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 2>military green, and that was a promotional item for his

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.679
<v Speaker 2>election campaign. And my father was like bringing stuff like

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 2>that home. Stuff. Anyway, she had to leave the South

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.280
<v Speaker 2>to get a job. But before she left the South,

0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.520
<v Speaker 2>it was only her and my uncle Paul at that point,

0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>and she had to put school in the sixth grade

0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 2>to go pick cotton to help the family because my

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:45.240
<v Speaker 2>grandfather was just a drunk and he was a horse trader.

0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.400
<v Speaker 2>That's what he did for a living. When they finally

0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 2>moved up to Detroit, he became an automobile salesman. I

0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>guess it's the same kind of deal, you know. Yeah,

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>it was. It was rough for her because she had

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 2>to witness her original mom died right in front of

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 2>her eyes and my uncle's eyes. She got caught on

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 2>fire from this weird stove they had down there, and

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.639
<v Speaker 2>nobody could help her put it out. She was a

0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>frail lady, and that had to be tough. And when

0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.119
<v Speaker 2>I think about my mom and what I know about

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:33.920
<v Speaker 2>her history, it wasn't pretty at all. You know. There's

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of poverty, a lot of tragic accidents. And

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:47.680
<v Speaker 2>then finally my drunk grandpa remarried, had two more children,

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.199
<v Speaker 2>or three actually, and then the whole bunch of them

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.200
<v Speaker 2>were living now in Detroit, I think on Third Avenue,

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and I went I went there to visit a couple

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.160
<v Speaker 2>of times, and it was a time when they let

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.880
<v Speaker 2>you behind your apartments or your whatever you were living,

0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.119
<v Speaker 2>and you were able to burn leaves. They allowed you

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:18.879
<v Speaker 2>to do that, so they even provided you with little

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:25.640
<v Speaker 2>ovens to do that. I'm trying to remember because I

0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 2>was young, there were so many images that were flashing

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 2>in front of me, like my uncle George, who ended

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.080
<v Speaker 2>up marrying a woman from Germany when he was in

0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 2>the military. During the Korean War. He was an MP

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and she was a farm girl and they met and

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:54.160
<v Speaker 2>married and brought her back to America, and it was

0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 2>my first dose of German, you know, I guess you

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 2>can put it that way. And she was sort of

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:09.359
<v Speaker 2>a little bit timid and shy, because of course you

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 2>and I both would be if it was a foreign

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 2>country for the first time. If not shy, I'm afraid

0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 2>at least really amazed. You're going to have to help

0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 2>me walk through this.

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, you're telling such great stories. I don't want

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:26.479
<v Speaker 1>to interrupt you.

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they're not connected to you.

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.399
<v Speaker 1>Know, they are connected in my brain. We're starting the meeting.

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>So your parents get married, Then when does your father

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 1>stop singing?

0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:45.640
<v Speaker 2>When he got drafted? And when he got drafted. They're

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.760
<v Speaker 2>out in Lincoln, Nebraska at an airfield there, and he

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:54.159
<v Speaker 2>was his assignment at that time, was a tail gunner

0:21:54.280 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 2>and they be twenty sevens seven it sounds right to me.

0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.680
<v Speaker 2>And he was feeding his machine gun and it tore

0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 2>off two of his fingers and so it was bye bye.

0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.919
<v Speaker 2>You know. He had no more military career, but he

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:22.119
<v Speaker 2>thought he could get back into the radio thing and

0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately this country moves so fast, always has that wasn't

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 2>available anymore. That wasn't what was necessary, that wasn't what

0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.720
<v Speaker 2>was rock and roll. Was just starting to kick his heels.

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 2>You could feel it down south and you could hear

0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:47.720
<v Speaker 2>it up north. Yeah, so for him it became really

0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 2>really crazy and frustrating because he knew then that he couldn't,

0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 2>especially with the physical missing two fingers. He felt a

0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.320
<v Speaker 2>little bad about that, but he's it was a beautiful singer.

0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.199
<v Speaker 2>You would keep us little kids awake at nights, singing

0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:11.520
<v Speaker 2>love songs to my mom in bed. Yeah. He didn't

0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 2>want to give it up, you know, but he did

0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>eventually when I succeeded, he started living vicariously through me.

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.239
<v Speaker 2>So I had done what he started to do. What

0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:26.360
<v Speaker 2>did he do for a living? How did he provide

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.639
<v Speaker 2>a tool and die maker? Working over time whenever he

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 2>could get it? Never really home. I remember many occasions

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.520
<v Speaker 2>where there was they had called Grandma so we'd get

0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the lights turned back on. It wasn't enough. I mean,

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:48.399
<v Speaker 2>we ended up having eight kids in that family. So

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's a challenge for sure, especially if you're

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.719
<v Speaker 2>Catholic and you don't want to if you're deep into it,

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 2>you know the Catholic Church has changed. I'm kind of

0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>excited about this new pope from Chicago.

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 1>So with area of Detroit did to grow up in?

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Well? I was born in ham Trammick, which is a

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Polish enclave almost one hundred percent so not today it's

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:28.199
<v Speaker 2>heavily populated by a lot of different ethnic cultures, but

0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:35.880
<v Speaker 2>back then it was totally Polish. And it's curiously enough,

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 2>it's one of the popes visited there. All the places

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 2>in America you could go to, he went to ham Trammick, Michigan.

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>I have no idea it was okay, but we were

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Italian and we were surrounded by Polish people, so we

0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:02.159
<v Speaker 2>moved pretty quick. After I was born. I pretty much

0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.480
<v Speaker 2>think that's when that doctor made that mistake with my circumcision.

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:09.400
<v Speaker 2>That was a joke.

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:13.920
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't sure. You never know, but yeah, not till

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 1>you look. So you're going to school, What was school like.

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 2>School? Well, I tested out my wings early. When I

0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.600
<v Speaker 2>was three years old. I ran away from home on

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 2>my tricycle. I remember going past the tank plant and

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I got about a mile away from home and a

0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 2>cop car pulled up and took my tricycle and put

0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.399
<v Speaker 2>it in a trunk and discorded me back to my

0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>crying mother, who was desperate to know why things were

0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 2>so miserable that I had to run away at three.

0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:58.040
<v Speaker 2>So I waited a while, and then when I was

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 2>in kindergarten, I did it again. I just started walking home,

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 2>remembering the route the bus had taken as best I could,

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 2>and my uncle Bobby Joe come scouting for me and

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:15.880
<v Speaker 2>found me and then took me home and I had

0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 2>to face my crying mother again. Tried to enlist in

0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 2>the Marines twice before I was seventeen. That didn't work

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>because my Actually it was funny for me to watch.

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:35.479
<v Speaker 2>But in the beginning they called me to tell me

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 2>when to report to Fort Wayne for induction in the

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>morning to sign up. And he said, who are you calling?

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>And they said WILLIAMS Levice. Is that you? He said yes,

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 2>and then he stops for saying, looks at me. He

0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:57.160
<v Speaker 2>says yeah. He said that's also my son's name, and

0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:00.960
<v Speaker 2>so he had figured out that I had the Marines

0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:04.640
<v Speaker 2>were calling for. He said, I fought in a way

0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:06.880
<v Speaker 2>he needs to say it fought. He said, I served

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 2>and I was discharged with honorable discharge, and I think

0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.399
<v Speaker 2>I know what's going on here, and so I was grounded.

0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, I couldn't go anywhere because I tried to

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:22.440
<v Speaker 2>run away from home again, just how it was, and

0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:28.440
<v Speaker 2>it was never I never felt fear out of running away.

0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:35.399
<v Speaker 2>It was more like an adventure. But I have to

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 2>say my parents, they weren't the most intelligent people in

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 2>the world. They were smart. My mom was smart enough

0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:49.480
<v Speaker 2>to teach me some things that I should never never forget,

0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:56.639
<v Speaker 2>and one is, do not talk about politics, do not

0:27:56.720 --> 0:27:59.919
<v Speaker 2>talk about religion, and you'll get along fine.

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay. What kind of kid were you growing up? Were

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.000
<v Speaker 1>you good in school? Did you play sports? Did you

0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 1>have friends?

0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:11.440
<v Speaker 2>At the age of four, I had rheumatic fever, which

0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:15.240
<v Speaker 2>left me with a heart murmur for the rest of

0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 2>my life, even today I have it. So in the

0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 2>early grades one, two, and three, they wouldn't allow me

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:33.360
<v Speaker 2>to play sports with the boys because of the heart thing,

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 2>and I ended up learning how to play jacks and

0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:45.160
<v Speaker 2>babble about nothing forever, just sitting with the girls, you know,

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 2>and trying to understand what they were talking about, why

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>they were talking about it. And so I had a

0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>preview of what makes little girls turned into women. You know,

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about personality wise, and yeah, I'm not trying

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>to describe women is anything less than we certainly were equal,

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:28.320
<v Speaker 2>especially when it came to marbles. So that went on

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 2>for some years and then the doctor finally said, okay,

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.560
<v Speaker 2>you can play sports. And when I got to high school,

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:39.920
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly what I did. I tried football, but I

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 2>was skinny and I was My assignment was the running back,

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 2>so they hand the hand off the ball to me

0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and I tried to cut through the slot that was

0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:58.040
<v Speaker 2>supposed to have been open for me, and I came

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 2>through in my pants, swear on it anymore. I was

0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 2>standing there in the football field in my jock strap

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.720
<v Speaker 2>and no cheerleaders are going what you So I chose

0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 2>track and field and that was my pursuit. But I

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:16.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't really excel at anything. I did get a medal

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 2>for cross country, but my love. The things I gravitated

0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:29.560
<v Speaker 2>to in high school were essentially music, and thank god

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:34.360
<v Speaker 2>we had a music program and art. Mister van Zant

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 2>was my art teacher in Dell Towers. As I mentioned

0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:43.480
<v Speaker 2>in the opening, he was the music teacher and I

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:48.000
<v Speaker 2>was like a straight a student in those I guess

0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:56.719
<v Speaker 2>my next best thing that I did was grammar. I

0:30:56.840 --> 0:31:01.320
<v Speaker 2>love the written word. I'm very very passionate about it.

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 2>And when I write songs, it's so tempting to play,

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 2>to play with the words, to look for the ambiguities,

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.240
<v Speaker 2>to look at how many ways can you use this language?

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:23.800
<v Speaker 2>But that didn't. That disappeared just recently because I have

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>learned this as well. When you start speaking legal language,

0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 2>you don't you just stop trusting the English language. You

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>absolutely lose your trust for it. And you've got all

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:41.840
<v Speaker 2>these right boys that went to schools to learn how

0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 2>to twist words. And in a way, I guess we're similar.

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 2>But I don't lie, and I'm not calling attorney's liars.

0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying it. You know, if you come to

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>a signpost and it shows I got three under my

0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:02.480
<v Speaker 2>this way one hundred and fifty, if you go that way,

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, they just parse words and just clog up

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 2>the court system and get it's like getting away with murder.

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:16.600
<v Speaker 2>And you know you need them. You certainly need them

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 2>when you need to be defended. And things are changing,

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Bob so quickly that I really don't have time to

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:29.960
<v Speaker 2>ponder on that. What I do is I continue to

0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 2>dream about tomorrow and what I want to do tomorrow,

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:38.560
<v Speaker 2>what I want to create new things that I've not

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:46.560
<v Speaker 2>experienced yet. And I've done this. I've completed in my home.

0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I have a completed album that's never been released. I

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:54.800
<v Speaker 2>have two books that have been authored by me and

0:32:55.200 --> 0:33:00.120
<v Speaker 2>never been published. I have a musical stage play and

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I have to find right now. I'm looking for an accomplice,

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 2>if you will, to help me set this for the stage,

0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>because not like the movies where you can get a

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:19.720
<v Speaker 2>different image every two seconds and still understand what's going on.

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>On live stages, you have to have sets and you

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.360
<v Speaker 2>can only have so many set changes in a play.

0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:29.360
<v Speaker 2>And it's things like that that I'm not used to

0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:36.760
<v Speaker 2>because I didn't take drama. And I'm looking for an accomplice.

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I'll call them an accomplice. At this point, we don't

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:41.760
<v Speaker 2>know what we're capable of.

0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to school. Did you graduate?

0:33:53.320 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Of course. It was really cool because the principals

0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 2>pull me when you're handed me in my diploma. He

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:02.360
<v Speaker 2>pulled me close to him and whispered in my ear.

0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>The only reason you're getting this is because I don't

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:09.480
<v Speaker 2>want to see you here and this that's what he

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:13.640
<v Speaker 2>told me. I took him to heart, you know.

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so when did you start going to clubs and

0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 1>when did you start performing in clubs?

0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:24.359
<v Speaker 2>In clubs at fifteen years old?

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Didn't tell me how that ended up happening.

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, I kind of did. It was the radio. I

0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:37.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go where that music was emanating from, and

0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:39.640
<v Speaker 2>of course I couldn't go to New York at the

0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:44.840
<v Speaker 2>time anyway, and so I just sought out Detroit. That

0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:48.200
<v Speaker 2>was where the music that I loved was. And I

0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:50.759
<v Speaker 2>ended up making a lot of friends. And I was

0:34:50.800 --> 0:35:00.400
<v Speaker 2>surprised because I never felt racially intimidated by by my

0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:05.520
<v Speaker 2>black friends. They just didn't do that. And I remember

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:10.240
<v Speaker 2>also as well, neither of my parents ever said anything

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 2>that would come close to being bigoted or racist at

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 2>all at our home, and so there was no foundation

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:20.040
<v Speaker 2>for preconceived notions of what the urban life was like.

0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:25.279
<v Speaker 2>I walked in, people greeted me, I made friends, we

0:35:25.320 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 2>started working together, and it was like just living everyday life.

0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.600
<v Speaker 2>There was nothing about skin and that's another thing that

0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I loved music about. There aren't really color barriers there.

0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 2>It's all about the music. And I think the world

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:45.759
<v Speaker 2>cannot live without music. In fact, I'm sure of it.

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 2>But I would be interested in me witnessing what the

0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 2>first drummer used. I would like and I'd like to

0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:59.239
<v Speaker 2>know what he was beating it on. You know.

0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:06.680
<v Speaker 1>So when you started performing, what were the circumstances did

0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:09.160
<v Speaker 1>you form a band? Were you singing soul music?

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I was solo and my father wasn't in some ways

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:22.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to still tried to make a comeback. I remember

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:27.680
<v Speaker 2>him there was a casting call in Detroit for a showboat,

0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.800
<v Speaker 2>and he got dressed up and went downtown and auditioned

0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:36.359
<v Speaker 2>for it. But he didn't make it. But he had

0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:39.320
<v Speaker 2>a friend at his tool and die factory where he worked,

0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:44.240
<v Speaker 2>a black gentleman whose wife played keyboard and a choir

0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 2>at this black church. And the church was run by

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:53.240
<v Speaker 2>the reverend James Hendricks, and he owned a record label

0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:57.759
<v Speaker 2>called Kerrie and my father wanted to get signed to

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:08.719
<v Speaker 2>that label. But I'll be darn I stole I tole

0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 2>his I stole his job away from Kelly. I just

0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 2>thought of it that way. Yeah, the reverend wanted he

0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:21.440
<v Speaker 2>looked around him and saw what was happening in the

0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:25.400
<v Speaker 2>music world and figured with a Okay, I got a

0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:27.920
<v Speaker 2>white kid here, but if you listen to him, he

0:37:28.000 --> 0:37:31.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound white. I think I better sign this kid.

0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:36.399
<v Speaker 2>And he did, you know, And and we put out

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that first single, but it was a nickel and dime operation.

0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:44.320
<v Speaker 1>How successful was that?

0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:50.440
<v Speaker 2>How successful was it? I lost my interest in it

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 2>because it was my very first time into a radio station.

0:37:56.040 --> 0:38:00.759
<v Speaker 2>And as we were leaving and this jockey, I think

0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:07.480
<v Speaker 2>it was popcornwile it was his name, he took the record,

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:09.799
<v Speaker 2>said turn on the radio when you get in the car,

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 2>I want to be playing it. And then when they

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:15.400
<v Speaker 2>shook hands, I just happened to see the palming of

0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:20.240
<v Speaker 2>the money, and every bit of joy I was feeling

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 2>fell to the floor into a muddle of tears. I

0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:33.240
<v Speaker 2>guess because I so new to that that industry, seeing

0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:35.839
<v Speaker 2>that happened that you had to pay somebody to play

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:42.719
<v Speaker 2>your record. But it didn't stop me, because you know,

0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:48.200
<v Speaker 2>the sun will come up tomorrow. And so I'm working

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:52.520
<v Speaker 2>at the village it was called on Woodward Avenue in Alexandria,

0:38:54.719 --> 0:39:00.279
<v Speaker 2>and I'm performing with acapella with the PEPs the black

0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:05.880
<v Speaker 2>group I was a part member of. And every week

0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the Glands Brothers owned the building and they would hire

0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:19.800
<v Speaker 2>a house band. You would audition to be a houseman,

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:26.480
<v Speaker 2>and so it was difficult because you got new guys

0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 2>coming in. They have to learn your songs and they

0:39:29.200 --> 0:39:32.840
<v Speaker 2>have to learn them in like a day, two days,

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>so you could get ready for the shows. And what

0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:39.239
<v Speaker 2>they would do the Glands Brothers would then tell the

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:42.719
<v Speaker 2>band after the week's performance, nah, we don't think you're

0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:46.759
<v Speaker 2>what we need, because nobody paid them to audition, right,

0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:48.759
<v Speaker 2>And that's how they would get their bands in there.

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:52.120
<v Speaker 2>They just would keep rejecting people and having auditions for

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:59.520
<v Speaker 2>new ones. And so on one given weekend, these three

0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 2>young white boys come in and they consisted of Earl Elliott,

0:40:06.719 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy McCarty and Johnny Badangic extremely talented guys for sure.

0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:23.760
<v Speaker 2>So they backed me and we liked what we heard

0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:27.080
<v Speaker 2>because they're like they were like a rock and roll

0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:34.279
<v Speaker 2>group and that's what they did best. And I was

0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:40.200
<v Speaker 2>strictly into the rhythm and blues thing. And we found

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:45.239
<v Speaker 2>out that when we put those two together on our

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:48.280
<v Speaker 2>song list, it was a new it was a different sound.

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:55.759
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't what was out there, and we were right,

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.839
<v Speaker 2>but we didn't know it yet. So we put out

0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:03.880
<v Speaker 2>a single in the Detroit area on Hireland Records and

0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>we were called Billy Lee and the Rivieras, and it

0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:11.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't really do anything except for our live performances were

0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 2>so so crazy. At that time, you had the beginning

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:21.359
<v Speaker 2>of the British invasion. And this one radio station paid

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:23.799
<v Speaker 2>a lot of money to hire this dic jockey just

0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:30.160
<v Speaker 2>because he had an English accent. I thought that was stupid.

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:34.360
<v Speaker 2>But this this jockey that was there, his name was

0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Dave Prince. He said, you know, you guys are different.

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:41.839
<v Speaker 2>And I got a friend in New York and would

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.080
<v Speaker 2>you make it like a tape? Can you guys make

0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.239
<v Speaker 2>a little tape that I can play for him, you know,

0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:51.319
<v Speaker 2>so he can hear the band? And we did, and

0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:55.399
<v Speaker 2>he took it to New York and a producer named

0:41:55.440 --> 0:42:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Bob Crewe, who is most famous, I guess, doing the

0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Four Seasons songs. He loved it and they called us

0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:12.680
<v Speaker 2>to New York and we took a really cheap hotel

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 2>there called the Colisseum House. I had the occasion to

0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:21.239
<v Speaker 2>be there a few years ago and revisit. It's not.

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.800
<v Speaker 2>The structure is still there, but it's it doesn't have

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:29.600
<v Speaker 2>any more cockroaches, cleaned up and you know, it's been

0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 2>sanitized and gentrified. And so that's where we stayed. And

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 2>there were only two bedrooms and there were five of us,

0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 2>so somebody had to sleep on the couch and we

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:50.800
<v Speaker 2>take turns doing that. It was really boring is waiting

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:55.560
<v Speaker 2>around for the producer to get his himself in a

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:58.920
<v Speaker 2>position where we could go in and record. So we

0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:01.839
<v Speaker 2>started working at some of the local clubs in Manhattan.

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:08.080
<v Speaker 2>In the village, there was a joint called Trudy Heller's,

0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:11.439
<v Speaker 2>which wasn't a folk club, but we did work some

0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.880
<v Speaker 2>folk clubs too, and didn't go over too well with

0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 2>the folkies. That you know, hard electric pounding beat. That

0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:27.560
<v Speaker 2>rhythm we were using. We spent our time doing that

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:34.000
<v Speaker 2>and guy came in one night and he came to

0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:38.319
<v Speaker 2>me because at that point I had been married and

0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.799
<v Speaker 2>left my pregnant wife in Detroit while I ventured out

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:47.880
<v Speaker 2>into New York to await my fate. And he comes

0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 2>up to me and says, hey, do you want to

0:43:51.920 --> 0:43:55.400
<v Speaker 2>make fifty bucks? I said, well, yeah, of course, he

0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:59.280
<v Speaker 2>said Okay, can you play hobn Neguila. I said, yeah,

0:43:59.440 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 2>I need to do that because my first wife was

0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Jewish and so our children were Jewish as well. Oh man,

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:16.319
<v Speaker 2>this just popped into my mind. My legal name is

0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Levice L E V I S E. But Nay Briath

0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't think so they thought my name was Levine. So

0:44:23.320 --> 0:44:28.440
<v Speaker 2>I started getting all these male for contributions to all

0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:33.720
<v Speaker 2>these different causes. And so the kids were going to school,

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I was learning Hebrew, I was wearing the Azusa. I

0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:47.520
<v Speaker 2>was thinking of converting. And then it happened success, And

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:52.520
<v Speaker 2>it happened in a very strange way. The producer when

0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:55.200
<v Speaker 2>we all arrived in New York. First of all, nobody

0:44:56.680 --> 0:44:58.600
<v Speaker 2>was old enough to sign. Our parents had to sign

0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:06.160
<v Speaker 2>our contracts for us. And we sense that Bob Crue

0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to accept the whole group because the very

0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:14.160
<v Speaker 2>first single that he put out was one of me

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:17.440
<v Speaker 2>alone singing an R and B, a very good R

0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:21.400
<v Speaker 2>and B classic, but you know, it appeared on the

0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:27.120
<v Speaker 2>Rhythm and Blues charts, but nowhere else, and he had

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a failure with it using studio musicians. So he said, okay,

0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 2>get the band together. We're going in the studio. I

0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:37.759
<v Speaker 2>want you to play every song you know. So he

0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:40.719
<v Speaker 2>had also at that very same time acquired the publishing

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:49.359
<v Speaker 2>rights for the Rolling Stones catalog, and so subsequently we're

0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:54.319
<v Speaker 2>doing this session, one of only three studio sessions we

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 2>ever did for him. He called all of the music

0:45:57.600 --> 0:46:00.080
<v Speaker 2>for all the five albums he put out on me

0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:03.719
<v Speaker 2>from those two sessions except for what Now I Love

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:09.560
<v Speaker 2>album and two of the Rolling Stones, and they were hot.

0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:13.200
<v Speaker 2>They had made it already. We hadn't. They were in

0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:19.120
<v Speaker 2>the studio because they they love music too. And I

0:46:19.160 --> 0:46:23.200
<v Speaker 2>think Keith told Bob Crue, if you want a hit

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:26.600
<v Speaker 2>out of what you've got going on out there, you

0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:28.920
<v Speaker 2>might want to bet on that, Jenny take a ride,

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.760
<v Speaker 2>And when he did, you didn't have the dismal failure

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.200
<v Speaker 2>of that single by Mitch Wrider, but you had a

0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:40.000
<v Speaker 2>hare record by Mitchwriter and Detroit Wheels, which was full

0:46:40.040 --> 0:46:45.360
<v Speaker 2>of energy and that special sound I tried to describe

0:46:45.400 --> 0:46:50.520
<v Speaker 2>to you earlier, that sort of cocktail, that rhythm and

0:46:50.560 --> 0:46:54.840
<v Speaker 2>blues mixed with rock and roll. At that point in time,

0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:59.560
<v Speaker 2>it was different. It was very different. I kind of

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:05.879
<v Speaker 2>have an understanding of why people liked it. I heard

0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 2>it really hurt it because we had an alarm clock

0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:15.239
<v Speaker 2>that would wake you up with music and Darren, it

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:18.359
<v Speaker 2>goes off and they're playing Jenny Take a Ride, and

0:47:18.400 --> 0:47:20.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm listening to it laid in bed like it's foreign

0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:22.600
<v Speaker 2>to me, like I heard it for the first time.

0:47:23.200 --> 0:47:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying, damn, that's a really good song. You know.

0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:29.799
<v Speaker 2>It was churchy. It had a gospel feel to it,

0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:33.920
<v Speaker 2>but it had those hard electric guitars going, kind of

0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:38.440
<v Speaker 2>like drunken people that staggered musicians that stagger into a

0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Salvation Army band. But it was cool. And that's you know,

0:47:47.120 --> 0:47:51.400
<v Speaker 2>We're in Messina, New York, working a club six days

0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:57.359
<v Speaker 2>a week, three shows a day, seventy five minutes, and

0:47:57.400 --> 0:47:59.480
<v Speaker 2>we're just waiting and waiting and waiting, and we get

0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:03.600
<v Speaker 2>a phone call and said to simply, all right, you guys,

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 2>you're all done there, pack up your bag. You're going

0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:10.840
<v Speaker 2>on tour tomorrow. And that's exactly what happened. And the

0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:14.479
<v Speaker 2>money we were making for an entire week, we made

0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:18.760
<v Speaker 2>double that in one show for fifteen to twenty minutes.

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:23.040
<v Speaker 2>And we worked all those weeks to get that money.

0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:30.000
<v Speaker 2>So that's how quickly things change, how they can change.

0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:41.320
<v Speaker 1>So they put out Jenny takes a ride. You have success,

0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.160
<v Speaker 1>stay on the road. How long until there's another record?

0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow? Everything was done within a two and a half

0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:56.520
<v Speaker 2>year period, everything the recording, as far as recordings go.

0:48:57.360 --> 0:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>And then you had the lack of their what now

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:05.840
<v Speaker 2>my love, which I sang on because I was contracted to.

0:49:06.280 --> 0:49:12.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, I came from an age where my parents

0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:15.680
<v Speaker 2>were good parents. You know, they did teach me right

0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:19.600
<v Speaker 2>from wrong. But at that time in our American history,

0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.399
<v Speaker 2>if you got a girl pregnant, he had to marry her.

0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:26.239
<v Speaker 2>You know, you didn't have say in it if you

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:34.560
<v Speaker 2>were a righteous kid. But that's one of the tragedies

0:49:34.600 --> 0:49:40.760
<v Speaker 2>of my first marriage because the kids were wonderful success

0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:43.600
<v Speaker 2>coming at that very moment when I'm needed to be

0:49:43.640 --> 0:49:50.560
<v Speaker 2>a father and you can't say enough about that. I

0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:52.600
<v Speaker 2>know what it was like to not know my dad

0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:57.680
<v Speaker 2>because he had to work so hard, and I just

0:49:57.760 --> 0:50:00.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't want that to be for my kids. So I

0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:07.880
<v Speaker 2>had a pretty hard choice to make. But we didn't

0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:10.040
<v Speaker 2>get you know, we got married when we were eighteen,

0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:15.400
<v Speaker 2>so we didn't know what love was. I mean, the

0:50:15.520 --> 0:50:17.759
<v Speaker 2>underpinning is what it really took to be in love,

0:50:19.440 --> 0:50:22.279
<v Speaker 2>and that's one of the reasons the marriage didn't work out.

0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:25.360
<v Speaker 2>We were just and so much was happening so fast,

0:50:25.400 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 2>and the demand of my time and that machine that

0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:32.799
<v Speaker 2>wanted to make as much money as it could. They

0:50:32.800 --> 0:50:35.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't leave me a second to spare. I was lucky

0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:41.359
<v Speaker 2>to get home and see my kids. I was if

0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:47.280
<v Speaker 2>you're going to be a musician, think about it deeply,

0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.280
<v Speaker 2>if you want to have a family as well, because

0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:53.360
<v Speaker 2>I've seen it cause wreckage wherever it goes.

0:50:56.080 --> 0:51:00.960
<v Speaker 1>So how did it end with your first marriage?

0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, she was a very good woman. She allowed me

0:51:05.480 --> 0:51:08.799
<v Speaker 2>to be with my kids and have my kids with

0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:13.640
<v Speaker 2>me when I wanted them, because I hardly got home

0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 2>anyway at all. I mean one year, we did two

0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:22.359
<v Speaker 2>hundred and eighty nine performances and I ended up being sick.

0:51:22.400 --> 0:51:24.040
<v Speaker 2>I had to go to hospital. After that, I was

0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:29.720
<v Speaker 2>just playing more out. I was working for Premier Talent

0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:33.799
<v Speaker 2>in New York, ran by Frank Barcelona, and they were

0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:38.279
<v Speaker 2>just starting to bring over English acts to help the

0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:41.719
<v Speaker 2>English breakthrough. The Beatles had already done that, so had

0:51:41.719 --> 0:51:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the Rolling Stones, but there were a million others to follow,

0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.759
<v Speaker 2>like the Dave Clark five and anybody you can name

0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that was from that sixties period that were British. A

0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:57.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of great groups, but in the beginning, for almost

0:51:57.320 --> 0:52:02.760
<v Speaker 2>every one of them, they did cover songs of black

0:52:03.080 --> 0:52:07.520
<v Speaker 2>urban music. Listened to their early stuff by the Stones

0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:10.399
<v Speaker 2>or anybody else for that matter that wanted to break through.

0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Early on, they were cover songs of black American artists.

0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:20.920
<v Speaker 2>And I was a headliner at that point. We had

0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:25.080
<v Speaker 2>already had a couple gold records of the top tens,

0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and I was headlining a theater. And because I was

0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:34.040
<v Speaker 2>a headliner, my contract said that I could pick the

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.640
<v Speaker 2>artists that were on the show. So I picked the

0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Who and the Cream, and damn if I didn't cut

0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:48.320
<v Speaker 2>my own throat. They are amazing. But Peter Town said,

0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:52.920
<v Speaker 2>when I went to England for the first time to

0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:57.600
<v Speaker 2>be introduced socially and publicly as an artist, he sponsored me.

0:53:00.080 --> 0:53:04.080
<v Speaker 2>The British were obsessed with this notion and they just

0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:07.320
<v Speaker 2>almost everyone to a man came up with the same question,

0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:13.880
<v Speaker 2>how do you sound so black? And I was offended

0:53:13.920 --> 0:53:18.839
<v Speaker 2>by it. I almost lost it on one I just

0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:23.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted to call them an ignorant asshole, but I didn't,

0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:28.239
<v Speaker 2>and I mean their view see that's how you go

0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:34.640
<v Speaker 2>about colonizing a world. You don't care. You know, they're

0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:38.000
<v Speaker 2>nothing if they're not white and bright, they're not shiny

0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:41.320
<v Speaker 2>and fun to be with. That's why it was easy

0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.600
<v Speaker 2>for the Brits to conquer the world. They just simply

0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:49.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't care. But they were the only colonials expansionist country.

0:53:51.840 --> 0:53:53.600
<v Speaker 2>You know what. The history of the world is just

0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:57.320
<v Speaker 2>like I do, and it's cyclical, and it just keeps

0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:04.080
<v Speaker 2>repeating itself. I think currently we're headed for another Gilded Age,

0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:08.440
<v Speaker 2>only one hundred million times worse in terms of the

0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:10.480
<v Speaker 2>divide between they have and have not.

0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:14.600
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about Bob Crue.

0:54:14.880 --> 0:54:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he was overtly gay. He didn't mind that at all.

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:26.960
<v Speaker 2>And he was a showman, he was a seller. He

0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:32.879
<v Speaker 2>was a star in his mind. And what he had

0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:38.279
<v Speaker 2>in mind for me, though, is different from what was

0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:44.960
<v Speaker 2>going on in America at that time. He thought that

0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:53.080
<v Speaker 2>working seven months stays at a Las Vegas hotel was

0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:58.719
<v Speaker 2>the top of the world. Went all around me, It wasn't.

0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:04.360
<v Speaker 2>All the other artists were trying to conquer the entire country.

0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:07.320
<v Speaker 2>And he's trying to get me to get us stay

0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:13.279
<v Speaker 2>in Vegas for God, knows how long, and it wasn't

0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:15.480
<v Speaker 2>going to work, so I sued to break the management

0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:24.359
<v Speaker 2>contract and he sold my contract to Paramount, which wasn't

0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:26.719
<v Speaker 2>so bad in the beginning because we had artists like

0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Billy Joel was at that time on Paramount before he

0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:34.239
<v Speaker 2>made his moves. He also stole my drummer. People keep

0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:37.480
<v Speaker 2>stealing my drummers. It's crazy. They just offer them a

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:41.160
<v Speaker 2>little more, you know what, I can't pay them. They'll

0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:43.200
<v Speaker 2>just pay them a little more. And then these guys

0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:46.279
<v Speaker 2>go and they go with my blessing because they gave

0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:49.279
<v Speaker 2>me what they had when they were with me and I.

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:53.880
<v Speaker 2>It gets complicated, Bob.

0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, that seems there's a story there. It gets complicated.

0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:05.359
<v Speaker 1>To tell me a little bit more about that. Well,

0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:09.760
<v Speaker 1>which aspect of it, Well, you're saying keeping a band together,

0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:12.839
<v Speaker 1>that must be a really hard effort.

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Not if you're having hits. Because I've seen bands that

0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:20.399
<v Speaker 2>actually hate each other. They'll perform. They don't even talk

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:23.080
<v Speaker 2>to each other off stage, but they'll perform. Because that's

0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:27.440
<v Speaker 2>it's all about money. That's if we wanted to, you know,

0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:30.000
<v Speaker 2>say good night, that's all we have to say. It's

0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:35.960
<v Speaker 2>all about money. So that's in everything we do.

0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:40.640
<v Speaker 1>When do you realize the hits have dried up and

0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:42.360
<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be so easy to have a

0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:43.000
<v Speaker 1>new one.

0:56:45.440 --> 0:56:49.400
<v Speaker 2>When he put out the What Now My Love? Album,

0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:52.319
<v Speaker 2>I was calling radio stations asking him not to play

0:56:52.360 --> 0:56:57.799
<v Speaker 2>it because I just didn't believe in it. It wasn't

0:56:58.800 --> 0:57:01.319
<v Speaker 2>I did it because I had to contractually, but I

0:57:01.320 --> 0:57:07.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't like it. And well, Dell Towers, the guy I

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:11.320
<v Speaker 2>was telling you about Taughty Classical, he loves. He loves

0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:17.200
<v Speaker 2>that album. It's like a bunch of French ballads like

0:57:17.320 --> 0:57:19.800
<v Speaker 2>what Now My Love? I don't know if it's French

0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:28.400
<v Speaker 2>of it strings. Utch Davies was the musical director. I

0:57:28.440 --> 0:57:33.440
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you know Hutch, but he did a

0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:38.520
<v Speaker 2>marvelous job with those string arrangements. I can see where

0:57:38.640 --> 0:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>a certain part. Well the record got. The single got

0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:44.840
<v Speaker 2>to number thirty seven, which would be hard to believe

0:57:45.040 --> 0:57:50.840
<v Speaker 2>if you were a hardcore Mitch writer Detroit Wheel fan fan.

0:57:54.680 --> 0:57:59.280
<v Speaker 2>And yet it's just a very uncomfortable place to be

0:57:59.280 --> 0:58:02.680
<v Speaker 2>because no, that's not what I wanted. I loved the

0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:09.240
<v Speaker 2>idea of a big band, but you know, Bob Cruise

0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:12.800
<v Speaker 2>mission was to separate me immediately. With that first record,

0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:16.479
<v Speaker 2>we spoke of from the group and make me into

0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:19.120
<v Speaker 2>a soul entity. Each of us had our own individual

0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:25.640
<v Speaker 2>contracts What Now My Love? And then the pursuant lawsuit

0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:30.960
<v Speaker 2>that I filed to break my management was the a

0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 2>downward spin for me. But Pure Amount knew how much,

0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:41.800
<v Speaker 2>the exorbitant amount of money they had paid for my

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:46.600
<v Speaker 2>contract because at that time, when you count them all up,

0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:52.040
<v Speaker 2>we've had like seventeen or eighteen songs totally in the

0:58:52.080 --> 0:58:57.200
<v Speaker 2>top one hundred, I guess four and top ten, and

0:58:57.240 --> 0:59:00.720
<v Speaker 2>then you go to five, you go the top twenty,

0:59:00.760 --> 0:59:04.800
<v Speaker 2>you get another five, and so it was well in

0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:07.320
<v Speaker 2>such a short period of time because it's from those

0:59:07.400 --> 0:59:11.400
<v Speaker 2>three sessions. Play everything you know, Bob cru said, and

0:59:11.440 --> 0:59:15.880
<v Speaker 2>we did, and he taped everything we knew, and that's

0:59:15.880 --> 0:59:19.600
<v Speaker 2>where he do. Look, you had all the Great Hits

0:59:19.640 --> 0:59:22.240
<v Speaker 2>by Mitch Ryder, which was just a repeat of everything

0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:25.560
<v Speaker 2>that was a hit. You have Mitch Wrider Sings the Hits.

0:59:25.640 --> 0:59:27.920
<v Speaker 2>That was another album he put out, which was the

0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:33.360
<v Speaker 2>same material with different packaging. You had the What Now

0:59:33.400 --> 0:59:35.320
<v Speaker 2>My Love? Album, and you had Genny Take a Ride,

0:59:35.320 --> 0:59:39.040
<v Speaker 2>and you had Breakout, and you had Socker to Me baby,

0:59:39.920 --> 0:59:45.680
<v Speaker 2>which was incredible because I'm with my wife, still married

0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:50.720
<v Speaker 2>to my little Jewish princess, and we're shopping and we

0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:54.160
<v Speaker 2>go buy this cart and they're selling little Mitch Ryder dolls.

0:59:55.680 --> 0:59:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Who has bro is selling Mitch writer dolls right next

1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the mamas and the papas and crazy crazy stuff. I didn't.

1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:10.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess my wife bought a couple and stuck them

1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:14.280
<v Speaker 2>away because my daughter still has hers. But I went

1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:19.200
<v Speaker 2>looking for him one day, and not too long ago,

1:00:19.240 --> 1:00:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I maybe five years ago, and I found one. But

1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:26.840
<v Speaker 2>they wanted a lot of money, and they had taken

1:00:26.880 --> 1:00:29.200
<v Speaker 2>this stage costume off the doll. It was just a

1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 2>nude little doll, and and and in my private parts

1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:36.520
<v Speaker 2>it was just plastic. And I had a lot of

1:00:36.920 --> 1:00:40.520
<v Speaker 2>mental problems over that. For a while, I didn't know

1:00:40.600 --> 1:00:44.240
<v Speaker 2>what what gender I was, you know, I was a

1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:45.760
<v Speaker 2>little confused.

1:00:46.160 --> 1:00:50.640
<v Speaker 1>So emotionally, how do you cope when you realize, man,

1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the hits are no longer coming.

1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh that wasn't a problem because I was always just

1:00:56.720 --> 1:01:02.480
<v Speaker 2>about being able to sing and write. It didn't bother me.

1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:04.720
<v Speaker 2>But you're asking how did you stay alive?

1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:06.920
<v Speaker 1>I think well that too. I was going to go

1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:08.040
<v Speaker 1>there next Yeah.

1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Well I took whatever they gave me. I

1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:17.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't have a manager, I didn't have a br association.

1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:21.479
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have at that time, they didn't have such

1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:26.760
<v Speaker 2>a thing as influencers. You know. It was a different

1:01:26.840 --> 1:01:32.000
<v Speaker 2>time and it was hard, and I went through so

1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:34.840
<v Speaker 2>many different booking people that promised me they could get

1:01:34.880 --> 1:01:39.680
<v Speaker 2>me work and stuff, and I ended up with one

1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:44.240
<v Speaker 2>group that got me worked for a while. When I

1:01:44.240 --> 1:01:47.720
<v Speaker 2>say work, I'm talking about good work. It was middle

1:01:47.760 --> 1:01:57.320
<v Speaker 2>class at least. And then they started putting me on

1:01:57.400 --> 1:02:03.000
<v Speaker 2>these package tours, which were lucrative for the promoters because

1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:05.440
<v Speaker 2>you had all these stars with all these hits. But

1:02:05.480 --> 1:02:07.080
<v Speaker 2>that's all they do is come out and sing the

1:02:07.160 --> 1:02:10.680
<v Speaker 2>hits and nothing else. They wouldn't do a show. So

1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I was tied up in that for well over a decade,

1:02:14.520 --> 1:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe two. But every year that passed and you're getting

1:02:20.000 --> 1:02:23.720
<v Speaker 2>further and further from your core audience and there was

1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:28.440
<v Speaker 2>no new music being made. But Polygrim did manage to

1:02:28.480 --> 1:02:32.280
<v Speaker 2>get me a dream come true, and they arrange it

1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:34.880
<v Speaker 2>so I could make a record called the Detroit Memphis

1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Experiment with Burger T and the MGS, with the original

1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:43.520
<v Speaker 2>band and the Memphis Horns, and that was thrilling in

1:02:43.560 --> 1:02:50.360
<v Speaker 2>so many ways. Started a relationship and knowledge of Otis Redding,

1:02:50.440 --> 1:02:57.200
<v Speaker 2>for example, was one of their stars. Interesting label. There's

1:02:57.480 --> 1:03:00.680
<v Speaker 2>some stuff on TV I saw about it, how they

1:03:00.680 --> 1:03:03.440
<v Speaker 2>got ripped off by Atlantic Records and so on and

1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:09.479
<v Speaker 2>so forth. I'm not saying anything liable. I'm just telling

1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:16.400
<v Speaker 2>you what I saw on TV. Gosh, that was fun.

1:03:16.440 --> 1:03:21.240
<v Speaker 2>That was fun. But after that I got a new manager.

1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:24.520
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to take another chance at a manager. And

1:03:24.560 --> 1:03:27.800
<v Speaker 2>his name was Barry Kramer, and he had created a

1:03:27.840 --> 1:03:31.880
<v Speaker 2>magazine out of Detroit called Cream Magazine, which he wholly

1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:35.280
<v Speaker 2>intended to go head to head and compete against Rolling Stone,

1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:39.880
<v Speaker 2>and he signed a deal with Curtis Publishing in New York,

1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:44.080
<v Speaker 2>which brought up is you can find his book everywhere

1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:48.840
<v Speaker 2>because prior to that, we were taking his magazines on

1:03:48.920 --> 1:03:52.880
<v Speaker 2>tour with us in big black garbage bags and dumping

1:03:52.920 --> 1:03:57.200
<v Speaker 2>them off at different bookstores and newsstands that he said

1:03:57.200 --> 1:03:59.960
<v Speaker 2>were important to do that. So we were kind of

1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:04.000
<v Speaker 2>like doing our tour and selling his publication at the

1:04:04.000 --> 1:04:09.960
<v Speaker 2>same time. So Barry became my manager, and he drafted

1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:16.000
<v Speaker 2>a new contract with Paramount and we birthed the album

1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:20.200
<v Speaker 2>called Detroit, which was produced by Bob Ezrin out of Toronto.

1:04:23.080 --> 1:04:24.840
<v Speaker 2>For those of you who don't know too much of

1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:35.600
<v Speaker 2>his work, he was, uh, the group, well, the guy

1:04:35.640 --> 1:04:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that did taking care of business, for example, the guitar player.

1:04:39.480 --> 1:04:44.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to remember his names with Burton coming, Yeah,

1:04:44.560 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Randy and then Burton was a singer and.

1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Golly we did Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd the Wall.

1:04:58.400 --> 1:05:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, he's a I don't know what he's doing now.

1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:09.040
<v Speaker 1>He's living back in Toronto. He's producing records, produced Fish record,

1:05:09.320 --> 1:05:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Andrea Bocelli still working.

1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Good good. I wonder if he still has the same

1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:18.880
<v Speaker 2>publishing company Nimbus nine.

1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Nimbus nine. I think Nimbus nine was Jack Richardson's. He

1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:27.440
<v Speaker 1>used to work for Jack Richardson in New York, that's right,

1:05:27.640 --> 1:05:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean in Toronto. I don't know who owns Nimbus sign.

1:05:33.480 --> 1:05:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, they own some of my songs. I can tell

1:05:38.200 --> 1:05:38.600
<v Speaker 2>you that.

1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's okay, you sit at home now this lead date.

1:05:50.240 --> 1:05:52.320
<v Speaker 1>You get any royalties.

1:05:53.840 --> 1:05:56.960
<v Speaker 2>We're having to fight that very issue as we speak.

1:05:57.280 --> 1:06:05.200
<v Speaker 2>We're getting some today. I got three different checks from

1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:12.480
<v Speaker 2>three different collection agencies, so it helped, but those weren't ours.

1:06:13.240 --> 1:06:18.480
<v Speaker 2>In the beginning. Crew never intended to paying anybody anything.

1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:23.200
<v Speaker 2>In fact, he bragged publicly. I don't know how high

1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:25.920
<v Speaker 2>he had to be able to say this, but he

1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:30.160
<v Speaker 2>bragged about spending about seven million dollars just on cocaine,

1:06:31.240 --> 1:06:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and it made us wonder why we weren't getting any royalties. Kelly,

1:06:39.240 --> 1:06:46.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's really hard, Bob, because when you people say, Okay, yeah,

1:06:47.120 --> 1:06:49.280
<v Speaker 2>you got screwed, but that was how they did the

1:06:49.360 --> 1:06:52.800
<v Speaker 2>business back then. You were lucky if you didn't get screwed,

1:06:56.760 --> 1:07:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and we just you can't complain too much because at

1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:07.760
<v Speaker 2>some point, if it wasn't for Bob Crue, there wouldn't

1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:13.640
<v Speaker 2>be a Mitch Rider. So I can respect that, but

1:07:13.760 --> 1:07:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you this as well. I'm sure it

1:07:16.800 --> 1:07:19.880
<v Speaker 2>would be under a different name, but I still would

1:07:19.880 --> 1:07:24.959
<v Speaker 2>have made it because I was determined to become a star,

1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>and whatever circumstances I found myself in, I'm absolutely certain

1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.000
<v Speaker 2>I would have done that. That was the easy part.

1:07:35.400 --> 1:07:38.200
<v Speaker 2>That's not the hard part of my struggle. The hard

1:07:38.240 --> 1:07:43.439
<v Speaker 2>part of my struggle is to establish myself and keep

1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:48.440
<v Speaker 2>chasing the dream. I love all these kinds of music,

1:07:48.680 --> 1:07:53.880
<v Speaker 2>but I want to go deeper into them and bring

1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:58.160
<v Speaker 2>more of myself into it. The new album that we're

1:07:58.160 --> 1:08:04.080
<v Speaker 2>creating to be recorded next year is probably as close

1:08:04.160 --> 1:08:07.520
<v Speaker 2>to my inner self as I've ever allowed myself to be.

1:08:09.640 --> 1:08:12.360
<v Speaker 2>This one the latest Woman we're promoting now. It's a

1:08:12.400 --> 1:08:19.040
<v Speaker 2>good album, but we're striving for something a little different

1:08:19.080 --> 1:08:23.679
<v Speaker 2>than that, and new and a new experience and some

1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:27.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, beautiful music. And when I say beautiful, I

1:08:27.080 --> 1:08:30.639
<v Speaker 2>mean stuff that you just want to listen to over

1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:40.160
<v Speaker 2>and over again. And last night we did a shoot

1:08:40.240 --> 1:08:43.760
<v Speaker 2>for a music video for the new album, and I

1:08:43.880 --> 1:08:46.160
<v Speaker 2>mentioned it to Josh. Anyway, we were up till four

1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:53.920
<v Speaker 2>a m. This morning, and we're deeply involved in it.

1:08:54.040 --> 1:09:01.120
<v Speaker 2>You know. At some point, I want to talk about

1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:13.280
<v Speaker 2>why we feel a need to sort of cast raise

1:09:13.320 --> 1:09:17.519
<v Speaker 2>an eyebrow when we ask ourselves, how are we going

1:09:17.600 --> 1:09:19.920
<v Speaker 2>to deal with our aging population, How are we going

1:09:20.000 --> 1:09:24.040
<v Speaker 2>to deal with our elders? How are we treating them

1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:26.519
<v Speaker 2>in this country? And I'm here to tell you that

1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:30.360
<v Speaker 2>it's a big difference in cultures. It is not this

1:09:30.439 --> 1:09:34.439
<v Speaker 2>way around the world, the way we treat older people here.

1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:37.519
<v Speaker 2>But I want to table that for a minute to

1:09:37.600 --> 1:09:40.639
<v Speaker 2>try to keep this trade on, to make every stop

1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:41.360
<v Speaker 2>that we can make.

1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:43.639
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no, you no. Tell me, tell

1:09:43.680 --> 1:09:46.400
<v Speaker 1>me more about the aging people, the aging population.

1:09:48.920 --> 1:09:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a lot of ways to look at it,

1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Like if you can afford to put mom in a home,

1:09:56.520 --> 1:09:59.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, it really depends on what kind she needs.

1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Do you need assisted living? That happens sometimes they just

1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:14.680
<v Speaker 2>send them to like a morphine house, where when they

1:10:14.720 --> 1:10:20.080
<v Speaker 2>decide they can't handle it anymore, they just they're allowed,

1:10:23.040 --> 1:10:26.720
<v Speaker 2>without much discovery, to in their lives the way they

1:10:26.760 --> 1:10:30.000
<v Speaker 2>want to. And I think they should be allowed to

1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:35.040
<v Speaker 2>do that. They've spent their whole life. You know, life

1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:37.120
<v Speaker 2>is not easy. That's the first thing you want to

1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:39.200
<v Speaker 2>teach your kids. It's not going to be easy, kid,

1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:46.280
<v Speaker 2>but you know you'll end up loving it. So what

1:10:46.360 --> 1:10:48.760
<v Speaker 2>do you do in a family that doesn't have the

1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:51.800
<v Speaker 2>money to put mom in assisted living or into a

1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:57.240
<v Speaker 2>morphine house or take care of her? You know, then

1:10:57.280 --> 1:10:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you take on We used to have in this gun

1:11:00.640 --> 1:11:05.280
<v Speaker 2>what we call generational homes. Nobody can I don't know

1:11:05.280 --> 1:11:08.920
<v Speaker 2>if they can't afford to have a generational home. Because

1:11:09.000 --> 1:11:13.920
<v Speaker 2>both of the principal, the daughter and son of this

1:11:14.080 --> 1:11:17.519
<v Speaker 2>woman or man. They both have to work. There's so

1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:22.840
<v Speaker 2>many different interchangeable parts in the financial situation that it

1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:26.439
<v Speaker 2>directs you to what your choices can be and what

1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>they will be. I don't know. If you start taking

1:11:34.040 --> 1:11:39.439
<v Speaker 2>away safety nets, then that raises another problem because you've

1:11:39.479 --> 1:11:45.280
<v Speaker 2>got people now, not now, but gosh, fifty years ago

1:11:46.040 --> 1:11:49.960
<v Speaker 2>started learning how to game the system, you know, and

1:11:50.120 --> 1:11:54.080
<v Speaker 2>raise families on government money instead of doing work for

1:11:54.200 --> 1:11:57.720
<v Speaker 2>it if there was a job to be had. And

1:11:57.760 --> 1:12:01.000
<v Speaker 2>that's what's so frustrating about everything is happening today. But

1:12:01.080 --> 1:12:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you know what, it's cyclical. It's been done before. It's

1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:08.800
<v Speaker 2>coming back again, only this time it feels like it's

1:12:08.840 --> 1:12:11.479
<v Speaker 2>coming back a little harder. But we're all going to

1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:15.639
<v Speaker 2>live through it, you know, unless something, Unless God wants

1:12:15.680 --> 1:12:21.160
<v Speaker 2>to call you in. So I wouldn't be afraid of

1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>what's happening now. I know that's easy to say because

1:12:26.200 --> 1:12:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm still being productive. I'm still hiring lighting people and

1:12:30.200 --> 1:12:36.240
<v Speaker 2>audio people and gaffers and humpers and putting people to

1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:42.200
<v Speaker 2>work contributing to society paying taxes. So I'm still viable.

1:12:42.920 --> 1:12:45.479
<v Speaker 2>But what do you do with people that can't and

1:12:45.520 --> 1:12:47.920
<v Speaker 2>they're suffering a lot of them are suffering. They can't

1:12:48.000 --> 1:12:52.040
<v Speaker 2>they can't work because they can't physically do it. They'd

1:12:52.120 --> 1:12:56.559
<v Speaker 2>love to work if they could. And eighty years old

1:12:56.680 --> 1:12:59.160
<v Speaker 2>or whatever age you want to put it at, where

1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:02.599
<v Speaker 2>you think they're they're no good for society. You need

1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>to relook at that and see where you can find

1:13:07.280 --> 1:13:10.240
<v Speaker 2>the value that these people are still willing to give

1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:17.120
<v Speaker 2>but have no opportunity to do it. So, you know,

1:13:17.960 --> 1:13:21.360
<v Speaker 2>it's messy. It's messy to describe. It's messy for me

1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:25.360
<v Speaker 2>to even dissect it in front of you because there's

1:13:25.360 --> 1:13:28.840
<v Speaker 2>so much emotion involved in it. But I do know

1:13:28.920 --> 1:13:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that if you've done done it the right way and

1:13:34.600 --> 1:13:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you played by the rules and you did what you

1:13:37.880 --> 1:13:41.120
<v Speaker 2>thought was right, only to find out that it didn't

1:13:41.160 --> 1:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>matter one bit what you were doing right or wrong,

1:13:45.960 --> 1:13:52.839
<v Speaker 2>because in the end, there's so much greed in business,

1:13:53.800 --> 1:13:58.479
<v Speaker 2>in capitalism, there's so much greed tied up there to

1:13:59.360 --> 1:14:06.240
<v Speaker 2>very few that you can't really it's hard to fight

1:14:06.280 --> 1:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>the machine. And what do we do. We're living through,

1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:15.559
<v Speaker 2>like I said, another Gilded Age, which was interesting following

1:14:15.640 --> 1:14:23.600
<v Speaker 2>the reconstruction period in the American history, and that fell apart,

1:14:24.520 --> 1:14:27.880
<v Speaker 2>and then you go, you know, into the roaring twenties,

1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:36.479
<v Speaker 2>all this while the Industrial Revolution is just making itself

1:14:36.600 --> 1:14:41.679
<v Speaker 2>more viable and more and more and buying up things

1:14:41.760 --> 1:14:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and consolidating and looking for a bigger check for everybody

1:14:46.840 --> 1:14:51.280
<v Speaker 2>that's lucky enough to be employed by them. And I'm

1:14:51.280 --> 1:14:54.439
<v Speaker 2>sitting here wondering about what happens if they start to

1:14:54.439 --> 1:14:59.840
<v Speaker 2>privatize our social security? And what happens when they hook

1:14:59.880 --> 1:15:06.000
<v Speaker 2>you ira and you're for ones? What if they hook

1:15:06.040 --> 1:15:08.800
<v Speaker 2>them irrevocably to the stock market? I mean, is that

1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:12.040
<v Speaker 2>how it's going to turn out? Who knows? Seems like

1:15:12.160 --> 1:15:14.799
<v Speaker 2>right now we're capable of doing anything.

1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:21.639
<v Speaker 1>So how's your financial situation? And what's your plan going forward?

1:15:21.720 --> 1:15:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Assuming you know, let's say you live another ten twenty years.

1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Wouldn't that be something to witness? I can't. Even when

1:15:31.560 --> 1:15:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I close my eyes, I can still see it. Anyway,

1:15:39.320 --> 1:15:41.280
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you when it's too late. If you're a

1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:46.920
<v Speaker 2>man is loose skin, if you sit down on a toilet,

1:15:47.200 --> 1:15:55.080
<v Speaker 2>your gonads are floating, you've got problems anyway, you know

1:15:55.680 --> 1:16:02.639
<v Speaker 2>what the heck? My financial situation right now, we're rolling

1:16:02.680 --> 1:16:07.840
<v Speaker 2>with the wind. It's not easy because there's very little

1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:11.559
<v Speaker 2>work in America. For me at this moment, and that's

1:16:11.600 --> 1:16:15.760
<v Speaker 2>what we're trying to do with this latest recording. We

1:16:15.800 --> 1:16:18.559
<v Speaker 2>feel it's a worthy record. It needs to be heard.

1:16:20.200 --> 1:16:24.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, when I was passionate, not as passionate as

1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:26.799
<v Speaker 2>I am now, but when I started really liking music,

1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:31.479
<v Speaker 2>I just when I heard something on the radio and

1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:34.280
<v Speaker 2>it sounded good, and I like the way it sounded,

1:16:35.040 --> 1:16:38.120
<v Speaker 2>I didn't care. I didn't think about age, I didn't

1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:42.040
<v Speaker 2>think about color, I didn't think about those things. I've

1:16:42.040 --> 1:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>thought about how much I liked that song, and I

1:16:47.240 --> 1:16:51.440
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I think maybe that's some kind of mentality

1:16:51.479 --> 1:16:54.040
<v Speaker 2>we should at least give another chance to because there's

1:16:54.080 --> 1:16:58.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people, elders that are quite capable of

1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:04.800
<v Speaker 2>still contributing valuable and entertaining things into our culture, but

1:17:04.880 --> 1:17:08.120
<v Speaker 2>we don't do that. We're like a fast food restaurant,

1:17:08.840 --> 1:17:10.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, give me the next thing that's going to sell.

1:17:12.840 --> 1:17:15.519
<v Speaker 2>And I had a conversation a couple of years ago

1:17:15.640 --> 1:17:17.960
<v Speaker 2>with a record company and they were quite honest with

1:17:18.040 --> 1:17:21.400
<v Speaker 2>me that we love you, we love your music, we

1:17:21.520 --> 1:17:24.400
<v Speaker 2>love the music we just heard that you did. But

1:17:24.640 --> 1:17:28.879
<v Speaker 2>it would cost us, starting at half a million dollars

1:17:29.760 --> 1:17:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to re establish you in the in the consciousness of

1:17:35.960 --> 1:17:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the of the country, to to to get that much

1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:42.320
<v Speaker 2>information out there, to get you set up on social media,

1:17:42.400 --> 1:17:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to get you all the things you're going to need

1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:47.559
<v Speaker 2>to return as a star. I said, well, what about

1:17:47.560 --> 1:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>if I don't want to be a star. I just

1:17:49.479 --> 1:17:55.680
<v Speaker 2>want my records to be played, you know. That's that's

1:17:55.800 --> 1:17:58.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of what we're facing right now. We've got a

1:17:58.200 --> 1:18:03.360
<v Speaker 2>great record. I love it so much, and I'm just

1:18:03.400 --> 1:18:07.280
<v Speaker 2>trying to come home. I've been recording in foreign countries

1:18:07.320 --> 1:18:10.680
<v Speaker 2>for so long now that and people don't even know

1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm alive. I mean, I've had nothing for them to hear.

1:18:17.000 --> 1:18:19.920
<v Speaker 2>But it's not because I wasn't producing. It's not because

1:18:19.960 --> 1:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't creating. It's because I never had the power

1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:29.200
<v Speaker 2>or the push to open the doors I needed to open.

1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I did have a very interesting management agreement with a

1:18:33.920 --> 1:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>wonderful man. His name is Brett Steele. He's a manager,

1:18:39.040 --> 1:18:46.599
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately that had to fall apart. I think for

1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 2>a couple of reasons, but it doesn't matter. He's talented.

1:18:51.000 --> 1:18:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I thought the roster was a little too full. I

1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>felt like I needed somebody to give most of their

1:18:58.720 --> 1:19:03.120
<v Speaker 2>attention to trying to resurrect me, and so when you

1:19:03.240 --> 1:19:07.840
<v Speaker 2>had a larger roster as he did, it was difficult

1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:10.120
<v Speaker 2>to want to stay with him. And besides, it was

1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:14.759
<v Speaker 2>one of those situations where, you know, we talked about

1:19:14.800 --> 1:19:18.759
<v Speaker 2>management contracts and he said a handshake will do well.

1:19:19.240 --> 1:19:22.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about a handshake doing because you know,

1:19:22.920 --> 1:19:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I've gotten stabbed that way before, not that he would

1:19:26.000 --> 1:19:30.840
<v Speaker 2>do it. He's a marvelous guy, and I'm happy for

1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:34.120
<v Speaker 2>the artist that he does manage, but I can't give

1:19:34.240 --> 1:19:38.280
<v Speaker 2>up the power that I'm going to need to reintroduce

1:19:38.400 --> 1:19:42.400
<v Speaker 2>me and somebody say, hey, you know your home kid,

1:19:43.080 --> 1:19:46.200
<v Speaker 2>you did all that stuff, you know, whatever the heck

1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:48.240
<v Speaker 2>way you were doing over there because we didn't hear it,

1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:53.080
<v Speaker 2>but you're home now, and that would make a nice

1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:56.120
<v Speaker 2>ending to that day, and then they you know, then

1:19:56.160 --> 1:19:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you can rest easy when you look forward to what

1:19:58.280 --> 1:20:01.880
<v Speaker 2>are you going to do tomorrow? And my idea what

1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do tomorrow is continue to write and records.

1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:09.439
<v Speaker 2>That's what I want to do. It's getting harder to

1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:19.760
<v Speaker 2>play because I have severe spinal stenosis with scoliosis, and

1:20:20.400 --> 1:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>so walking is difficult. And get this is I don't

1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:29.160
<v Speaker 2>know where this woman came from, but I'm going to

1:20:29.240 --> 1:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>describe it to you now. We were performing on a

1:20:33.640 --> 1:20:38.400
<v Speaker 2>cruise ship and I'm walking around with a cane because

1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:41.559
<v Speaker 2>i have to at this moment. I can walk, but

1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:43.680
<v Speaker 2>I can't. I can walk without a cane, but I

1:20:43.720 --> 1:20:48.639
<v Speaker 2>can't walk far and I can't walk long times. So

1:20:48.840 --> 1:20:51.800
<v Speaker 2>we're out there, we're enjoying the music with all these

1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:55.679
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of other people on the ship, and we leave

1:20:55.720 --> 1:21:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the area where everybody's congregated, and we're going past some

1:21:01.400 --> 1:21:05.920
<v Speaker 2>open hallways, empty hallways, and we turn a corner to

1:21:06.040 --> 1:21:09.639
<v Speaker 2>go around, and there's this woman and I'm struggling at

1:21:09.640 --> 1:21:12.519
<v Speaker 2>this point because I've been in the sun for hours

1:21:12.520 --> 1:21:18.280
<v Speaker 2>in the standing and I'm struggling to walk. And this

1:21:18.360 --> 1:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>woman just ambushed us, jumped out from behind a pillar

1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:28.439
<v Speaker 2>and started videotaping my struggle to walk. And I'm wondering

1:21:28.439 --> 1:21:33.599
<v Speaker 2>to myself, well, why would you do that? Why would

1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:37.200
<v Speaker 2>you want to have that on tape? You know, what

1:21:37.560 --> 1:21:39.879
<v Speaker 2>is that going to do for you in your social

1:21:39.960 --> 1:21:46.800
<v Speaker 2>media world, showing somebody having a struggle. So maybe she's like,

1:21:47.920 --> 1:21:51.400
<v Speaker 2>maybe she likes those national geographic snuff films where you

1:21:51.800 --> 1:21:58.559
<v Speaker 2>watch the animals kill each other. You know, I don't know.

1:21:58.640 --> 1:22:00.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a funny world.

1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about your world in Europe and your career

1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:11.879
<v Speaker 1>in Europe.

1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:20.479
<v Speaker 2>Very different, very different. I was this coming year will

1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:24.400
<v Speaker 2>be forty eight years of non stop touring every year

1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:28.840
<v Speaker 2>in Europe, with the exception of one COVID year where

1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:33.719
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't allow us to travel there. It's a market

1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:38.880
<v Speaker 2>that I built over a long time. The first seventeen

1:22:39.000 --> 1:22:44.200
<v Speaker 2>years were in West Germany before the wall came down,

1:22:45.520 --> 1:22:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and then we slowly got invited by the government in

1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the East to perform. And I did a performance on

1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:59.720
<v Speaker 2>a show called The Rock Palace, which was sent out

1:22:59.760 --> 1:23:02.320
<v Speaker 2>to one hundred and thirty million. At that point in

1:23:02.360 --> 1:23:04.320
<v Speaker 2>the morning, they said there was one hundred and thirty

1:23:04.360 --> 1:23:09.000
<v Speaker 2>million people probably watching. I was on a bill with

1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Nil's laughkra and Southside Johnny, and they had those sons

1:23:18.880 --> 1:23:24.799
<v Speaker 2>of guns. Nobody had told anybody what time the headlining

1:23:24.920 --> 1:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>was going to go on. I wasn't headlighting, I was opening,

1:23:28.479 --> 1:23:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and nobody had told me that. When Southside found out

1:23:32.880 --> 1:23:35.240
<v Speaker 2>and Neil's found out that the headlining would be going

1:23:35.280 --> 1:23:38.000
<v Speaker 2>on at two in the morning, all of a sudden

1:23:38.080 --> 1:23:41.840
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to Hey, Mitch, listen, man, we love you.

1:23:42.560 --> 1:23:45.280
<v Speaker 2>Would you like to close the show? And I'm going

1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:49.519
<v Speaker 2>what headline the show over you guys? Of course I would,

1:23:52.200 --> 1:23:55.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's because I didn't know about the time. So

1:23:56.520 --> 1:24:00.439
<v Speaker 2>we were going to open. So we were having in

1:24:00.479 --> 1:24:04.080
<v Speaker 2>the early afternoon. We were having a few drinks and

1:24:04.160 --> 1:24:06.360
<v Speaker 2>we thought we'd be going on pretty soon. It wouldn't

1:24:06.360 --> 1:24:09.679
<v Speaker 2>be long. Well, then nobody told us about the change.

1:24:10.200 --> 1:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, they told me that I would be headlined,

1:24:11.920 --> 1:24:14.559
<v Speaker 2>but nobody told us about the time. So as we're

1:24:14.560 --> 1:24:18.360
<v Speaker 2>sitting there waiting, we're continuing to drink and by the

1:24:18.400 --> 1:24:24.880
<v Speaker 2>time it comes me to be on stage. They had

1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:28.280
<v Speaker 2>a pre interview where the other bands had their interviews

1:24:28.320 --> 1:24:30.960
<v Speaker 2>after their performance. They had a pre interview with a

1:24:31.040 --> 1:24:35.000
<v Speaker 2>drunk who hadn't gotten a chance to put his music

1:24:35.040 --> 1:24:39.400
<v Speaker 2>out there yet. Well, by the way, I haven't had

1:24:39.400 --> 1:24:43.280
<v Speaker 2>anything to drink for over twenty years now, and same

1:24:43.320 --> 1:24:50.120
<v Speaker 2>thing with the dope. What messes it up for me

1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:54.639
<v Speaker 2>with my back is they screwed up to begin with

1:24:54.640 --> 1:24:57.479
<v Speaker 2>with the cervical. They fused the cervical and the medal

1:24:58.080 --> 1:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>wasn't quite right. Now I kind of see everything from

1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>my dog's perspective. Whatever, it's on the sidewalk in front

1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:10.680
<v Speaker 2>of me, that's what I'll look at. This show is

1:25:10.720 --> 1:25:14.760
<v Speaker 2>called the Rock Palace. So we go on. In the interview,

1:25:16.439 --> 1:25:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I said some things that the government didn't like, and

1:25:21.960 --> 1:25:24.800
<v Speaker 2>my record company didn't like, and my manager didn't like.

1:25:24.880 --> 1:25:29.280
<v Speaker 2>But the kids loved it. And during the show, my

1:25:29.360 --> 1:25:33.160
<v Speaker 2>show wasn't like anybody else's show. I got off the stage,

1:25:33.200 --> 1:25:35.680
<v Speaker 2>I went down into the audience. I sat next to

1:25:35.720 --> 1:25:42.200
<v Speaker 2>the to the attendees, and I talked to him. I

1:25:42.320 --> 1:25:45.800
<v Speaker 2>sang with him, and I was moving all around, and

1:25:45.880 --> 1:25:50.719
<v Speaker 2>the band was just roaring, and we did this remarkable show,

1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>which they're calling the best that they've ever seen. For

1:25:56.160 --> 1:26:01.479
<v Speaker 2>that for marketing purposes, maybe, but that drew my fan base,

1:26:02.040 --> 1:26:04.800
<v Speaker 2>and that's what allowed me to continue to go over

1:26:04.880 --> 1:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>to Germany for all these decades. In the beginning of

1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the transition from West to East, where we started going

1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:20.120
<v Speaker 2>into a whole Germany, I continued to bring American players

1:26:20.160 --> 1:26:24.519
<v Speaker 2>over because of the lack of knowledge of not blues

1:26:24.560 --> 1:26:31.080
<v Speaker 2>but sort of rock and roll stylings. Because the East

1:26:31.120 --> 1:26:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Germans were heavy into blues scene. I would too if

1:26:35.479 --> 1:26:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I was, you know, I would be very bluesy in

1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>a communist country, and we worked it. We worked it,

1:26:50.280 --> 1:26:53.600
<v Speaker 2>we made it into something. We molded it. We dedicated

1:26:53.600 --> 1:26:58.160
<v Speaker 2>our lives to it and did so many great shows,

1:26:58.640 --> 1:27:03.320
<v Speaker 2>but never once having to do any of the American hits,

1:27:04.360 --> 1:27:08.559
<v Speaker 2>and no requests for him wow, doing two hour shows

1:27:08.680 --> 1:27:13.559
<v Speaker 2>with no intermissions, no opening acts, all material that I

1:27:13.600 --> 1:27:16.000
<v Speaker 2>created in Germany or France.

1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:20.240
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about East Germany before the wall came down.

1:27:21.320 --> 1:27:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, we happened to go over. There was no neon

1:27:24.520 --> 1:27:28.599
<v Speaker 2>that was immediate once you went through checkpoint Charlie. There

1:27:28.680 --> 1:27:35.639
<v Speaker 2>was no neon at all. And we asked our guide

1:27:35.920 --> 1:27:39.000
<v Speaker 2>we wanted to go to a bar. He said, well,

1:27:39.080 --> 1:27:41.120
<v Speaker 2>let's just keep walking. I said, well, do you know

1:27:41.160 --> 1:27:43.240
<v Speaker 2>where you're going? He said, no, we will. I said,

1:27:43.240 --> 1:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>what do you mean we will? He said, when we

1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:48.640
<v Speaker 2>come to the door where you hear music, that's going

1:27:48.680 --> 1:27:52.640
<v Speaker 2>to be a club, Let's just walk in. There was

1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:57.200
<v Speaker 2>no out signage outside or anything. It was all like

1:27:57.600 --> 1:28:03.320
<v Speaker 2>known to the locals, you know what was happening. And

1:28:04.040 --> 1:28:07.360
<v Speaker 2>so I got invited over a couple of times before

1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:12.599
<v Speaker 2>the wall came down. I recorded over there same studio

1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:20.080
<v Speaker 2>that you two and David Boy used beautiful studio. In

1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:22.840
<v Speaker 2>the middle of the studio was an old ballroom where

1:28:22.880 --> 1:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the Nazis would have their ballroom dances. But I'm straying,

1:28:30.840 --> 1:28:36.560
<v Speaker 2>as I have been for the whole interview. So we

1:28:36.720 --> 1:28:39.559
<v Speaker 2>do this thing and we get invited to play a

1:28:39.680 --> 1:28:43.599
<v Speaker 2>soccer field. Okay, when's the last time I saw a

1:28:43.600 --> 1:28:49.639
<v Speaker 2>soccer field in America? So considering, you know, my last

1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:53.679
<v Speaker 2>big hit was like sixty nine, and now we're deep

1:28:53.720 --> 1:28:56.280
<v Speaker 2>into the eighties, not deep into the eighties, but we're

1:28:56.280 --> 1:29:01.240
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties and all those years. But things did

1:29:01.280 --> 1:29:03.600
<v Speaker 2>happen in America for me. But let me set that

1:29:03.680 --> 1:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>aside for a moment and finished this East German story

1:29:06.280 --> 1:29:11.600
<v Speaker 2>because it's cute. They would didn't. They didn't want to

1:29:11.600 --> 1:29:17.479
<v Speaker 2>pay us in the East German marks because of the embarrassment, uh,

1:29:18.000 --> 1:29:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the valuation and they so they wouldn't pay us. I

1:29:22.600 --> 1:29:25.760
<v Speaker 2>remember the marks were green colored to a sort of

1:29:25.920 --> 1:29:31.160
<v Speaker 2>light blimey green. So they paid us in hardware. We

1:29:31.200 --> 1:29:36.320
<v Speaker 2>got two grand pianos. We got a Trebbe, their little

1:29:36.400 --> 1:29:41.360
<v Speaker 2>national car, the East German car. I got a generous tent,

1:29:43.320 --> 1:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>had like four different rooms to it, a huge tent.

1:29:47.720 --> 1:29:50.920
<v Speaker 2>And so what did we do with this stuff, you know. Well,

1:29:50.960 --> 1:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>what we did was we took it back and we

1:29:54.280 --> 1:29:57.679
<v Speaker 2>sold it in the West and made our money that way.

1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>But what we discovered as well is when you're traveling

1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:06.759
<v Speaker 2>between those two borders, they'd make you get off the bus,

1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:09.559
<v Speaker 2>leave all your belongings on the bus, go inside for

1:30:09.640 --> 1:30:12.720
<v Speaker 2>your paperwork, and then say all right, get on the

1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:16.120
<v Speaker 2>bus and leave. And so you did, only to discover

1:30:16.240 --> 1:30:20.519
<v Speaker 2>that your cassettes were gone, your radios were gone, your

1:30:20.560 --> 1:30:24.759
<v Speaker 2>instruments were gone, you know, I mean, they just outright

1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:28.360
<v Speaker 2>stole from you. So it was the culture in East

1:30:28.360 --> 1:30:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Germany was certainly different from West Germany. And that's why

1:30:32.880 --> 1:30:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I was so shocking for the West. When the wall

1:30:38.920 --> 1:30:43.000
<v Speaker 2>did come down. There was a lot of traffic heading

1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:47.160
<v Speaker 2>to the west, a lot of traffic, but the only

1:30:47.200 --> 1:30:49.000
<v Speaker 2>people head into the West that I knew of at

1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:53.760
<v Speaker 2>that time were the banks, and they were going to rebuild.

1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:59.759
<v Speaker 2>The Soviets never gave anything, They just took, took, took.

1:31:01.280 --> 1:31:05.040
<v Speaker 2>So when the wall came down, these cities, famous cities,

1:31:05.560 --> 1:31:10.080
<v Speaker 2>big cities in the East had to be rebuilt, from

1:31:10.120 --> 1:31:17.120
<v Speaker 2>the sewers to the streets, the electrical grids, to everything

1:31:17.400 --> 1:31:19.920
<v Speaker 2>that you could think of that you need to run

1:31:20.080 --> 1:31:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a functioning city, had to be replaced by Western tax

1:31:24.040 --> 1:31:29.160
<v Speaker 2>dollars in Germany, and so that's where that resentment came from.

1:31:30.160 --> 1:31:37.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're a saft spoken, thoughtful, intelligent, educated guy. What

1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:43.080
<v Speaker 1>was the twenty something Mitch Ryder like? Same or different?

1:31:45.640 --> 1:31:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I was just watching an interview at some New York club,

1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:59.680
<v Speaker 2>New York City, when I was hot, okay, and I

1:31:59.800 --> 1:32:04.799
<v Speaker 2>was I was polite and respectful. I don't think I

1:32:04.880 --> 1:32:09.759
<v Speaker 2>carried myself. Only later on after I started getting mad,

1:32:11.160 --> 1:32:15.880
<v Speaker 2>angry at myself for choices I had made that sabotaged

1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:24.639
<v Speaker 2>my career. So I started drinking heavily. Only then did

1:32:24.680 --> 1:32:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I realize what a fool I had been. But in

1:32:30.840 --> 1:32:36.120
<v Speaker 2>my twenties, I was, you know, pretty reserved guy. I mean,

1:32:36.160 --> 1:32:39.160
<v Speaker 2>the American Heart Association made me Prince of Hearts for

1:32:39.200 --> 1:32:44.560
<v Speaker 2>a year. Just tons of stuff like that, charitable causes

1:32:46.200 --> 1:32:50.400
<v Speaker 2>doing everything I had learned, you know, being a Catholic.

1:32:51.760 --> 1:32:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Not that they don't teach in goodness anywhere else, but

1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the Catholic Church is famous for it. If you can't

1:32:59.320 --> 1:33:01.080
<v Speaker 2>understand them, whip it into you.

1:33:03.360 --> 1:33:06.040
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about getting angry and feeling like a fool.

1:33:08.040 --> 1:33:09.760
<v Speaker 2>You don't know what your age, what that's like.

1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know, but my light history is different from yours.

1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:18.719
<v Speaker 1>You know, I didn't have this ubiquitous fame. I wasn't

1:33:18.800 --> 1:33:22.519
<v Speaker 1>ripped off for all this money. I didn't hit a

1:33:22.640 --> 1:33:25.520
<v Speaker 1>peak and then, you know, have a hard time reclaiming

1:33:25.560 --> 1:33:26.080
<v Speaker 1>that peak.

1:33:27.040 --> 1:33:33.559
<v Speaker 2>You're absolutely right one point. So which part do you

1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>want to hear? All of it? All right? My wife's

1:33:43.520 --> 1:33:47.360
<v Speaker 2>turned to poison me, I'm sure of it. The water

1:33:47.479 --> 1:33:58.720
<v Speaker 2>is different today. Well, as I said, the most regrettable

1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.880
<v Speaker 2>part of my career is, uh, how I managed to

1:34:03.439 --> 1:34:11.120
<v Speaker 2>hurt myself career wise. I'm simply a dreamer and I

1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:18.200
<v Speaker 2>need leadership that's not going to try to hurt me.

1:34:21.040 --> 1:34:24.080
<v Speaker 2>What would do me, what would serve me best right

1:34:24.120 --> 1:34:28.559
<v Speaker 2>now would be probably a six year old billionaire with

1:34:28.640 --> 1:34:37.200
<v Speaker 2>a devil make air attitude. I just, uh, I think

1:34:37.240 --> 1:34:41.800
<v Speaker 2>what could look? I'm going to end up happy when

1:34:42.160 --> 1:34:45.320
<v Speaker 2>when the end finally comes anyway, because I'm happy. Now.

1:34:46.840 --> 1:34:51.680
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about things that are uncomfortable, but I am

1:34:51.720 --> 1:34:55.000
<v Speaker 2>a happy guy, and I do expect the sun to

1:34:55.040 --> 1:35:00.000
<v Speaker 2>come up tomorrow and I'm working on new projects. Complete

1:35:00.080 --> 1:35:06.320
<v Speaker 2>needed many projects that aren't for sale yet, and I'm

1:35:06.320 --> 1:35:12.639
<v Speaker 2>still ambitious that way. It's not comfortable being disabled slightly,

1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:16.160
<v Speaker 2>But you know, they don't come to see me dance,

1:35:16.600 --> 1:35:20.759
<v Speaker 2>they come to hear me sing. So it's simple.

1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, how long did it take you to get all

1:35:23.160 --> 1:35:24.639
<v Speaker 1>over being ripped off?

1:35:28.680 --> 1:35:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I think when the Appellate Court in New York State

1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:41.760
<v Speaker 2>ruled against me in my lawsuit, there was a finality

1:35:41.840 --> 1:35:47.000
<v Speaker 2>to that. I didn't feel like appealing to the Supreme

1:35:47.040 --> 1:35:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Court in New York State. And so one of the

1:35:52.920 --> 1:35:56.519
<v Speaker 2>curious things, do you mind if I continue to call

1:35:56.520 --> 1:35:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you Bob?

1:35:57.080 --> 1:35:58.280
<v Speaker 1>No, that's cool, that's my name.

1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, So Bob Crewe, like I said, was from

1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:09.479
<v Speaker 2>an earlier age. I told you the Vegas thing, which

1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:13.479
<v Speaker 2>was an example. But he also had his own little

1:36:13.520 --> 1:36:18.280
<v Speaker 2>tin panelley right in his offices, and you would go

1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:22.320
<v Speaker 2>in there and he owned everything. You know. He just

1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:25.280
<v Speaker 2>simply hired people to write songs for him and they

1:36:25.320 --> 1:36:27.840
<v Speaker 2>would get credit and a small royalty. And when I

1:36:27.840 --> 1:36:30.120
<v Speaker 2>say small, we're talking about one or two cents a

1:36:30.280 --> 1:36:33.479
<v Speaker 2>record five cents at the most if you're a really

1:36:33.560 --> 1:36:38.000
<v Speaker 2>big deal. So he dissuaded us at a time. See

1:36:38.600 --> 1:36:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I wrote my first record, I wrote my second record.

1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:44.519
<v Speaker 2>All before I went to New York. My mom used

1:36:44.560 --> 1:36:46.880
<v Speaker 2>to sing around the house all the time. My mom

1:36:47.000 --> 1:36:50.800
<v Speaker 2>used to write music. She'd take me a little preschooler,

1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and she'd read and sing her songs to me and

1:36:54.000 --> 1:36:59.519
<v Speaker 2>asked me for my opinion. She valued my talent that much,

1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:08.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess. But it's always been about for me that

1:37:08.439 --> 1:37:18.160
<v Speaker 2>that creative progress, the evolution. I started out being a writer,

1:37:18.439 --> 1:37:20.360
<v Speaker 2>and that's what I wanted to be, and I wanted

1:37:20.400 --> 1:37:23.240
<v Speaker 2>to be a singer, which of course I'm good at.

1:37:24.160 --> 1:37:28.559
<v Speaker 2>But at a time when everybody around us, their managers

1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:34.200
<v Speaker 2>were pressing them hard, especially the Brits, to write your

1:37:34.240 --> 1:37:40.960
<v Speaker 2>own music so we can establish a catalog. Bob Crew

1:37:41.080 --> 1:37:43.280
<v Speaker 2>was saying that, no, no, no, no, no no no, don't

1:37:43.280 --> 1:37:45.360
<v Speaker 2>you worry about the music. I've got music for you.

1:37:46.120 --> 1:37:48.160
<v Speaker 2>And that's what we ended up doing, or a lot

1:37:48.200 --> 1:37:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of covers. So you know, I wanted to, after that experience,

1:37:57.360 --> 1:38:05.040
<v Speaker 2>at least for myself, get to a position that reflected

1:38:05.360 --> 1:38:11.719
<v Speaker 2>who I really am as a person. And how different

1:38:11.760 --> 1:38:16.599
<v Speaker 2>is that from anybody? If it's different at all, it's

1:38:16.680 --> 1:38:19.559
<v Speaker 2>just part of the discovery process, you know, And to

1:38:19.600 --> 1:38:25.280
<v Speaker 2>become a better writer. And that's been I've been chasing

1:38:25.320 --> 1:38:29.360
<v Speaker 2>that forever and I'll be chasing it tomorrow. I want

1:38:29.360 --> 1:38:32.240
<v Speaker 2>to make another new album, you know. I want to

1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:37.080
<v Speaker 2>write better songs. I've been told that I've written great songs,

1:38:37.160 --> 1:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>but I have no proof of it because I never

1:38:41.880 --> 1:38:44.799
<v Speaker 2>I haven't been with the machine for a long time.

1:38:46.680 --> 1:38:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Contracts I sign in Europe, multiple contracts are usually with

1:38:50.960 --> 1:38:54.599
<v Speaker 2>smaller companies, have no power, have no push, have no connection.

1:38:56.160 --> 1:38:59.120
<v Speaker 2>At least roof Records is getting me on the American charts,

1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:03.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's just a little glimpse of me, you know.

1:39:03.520 --> 1:39:09.920
<v Speaker 2>So our if we want to be heard, we need

1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:15.320
<v Speaker 2>to What I need is a benefactor, I think, and

1:39:15.400 --> 1:39:21.120
<v Speaker 2>I can together with somebody that's intelligent, that's self made,

1:39:21.680 --> 1:39:25.840
<v Speaker 2>that's comfortable in their lives and wants to dally and

1:39:26.000 --> 1:39:30.080
<v Speaker 2>prove a point about aging Americans and what their value

1:39:30.160 --> 1:39:32.960
<v Speaker 2>is to us. Give me a call, you know, and

1:39:33.000 --> 1:39:35.280
<v Speaker 2>we will make it happen. We'll turn the world upside

1:39:35.280 --> 1:39:38.400
<v Speaker 2>down on his head and say, hey, you know, I'm

1:39:38.439 --> 1:39:40.920
<v Speaker 2>eighty years old and I'm doing music. It's just as

1:39:40.920 --> 1:39:45.200
<v Speaker 2>good as what you're doing. So let's take that argument

1:39:45.280 --> 1:39:49.720
<v Speaker 2>there instead of sending our seniors off to places where

1:39:49.800 --> 1:39:53.400
<v Speaker 2>we'll never see them again, you know, and the ones

1:39:53.439 --> 1:39:56.960
<v Speaker 2>that are suffering, there's no need for that.

1:39:58.439 --> 1:40:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about life experience. You've been married three times.

1:40:02.760 --> 1:40:04.840
<v Speaker 1>What did you learn and what advice do you have?

1:40:07.840 --> 1:40:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you're a musician, don't get married. That's what

1:40:11.400 --> 1:40:20.160
<v Speaker 2>I learned. My children are from my first wife. My

1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:25.240
<v Speaker 2>second wife, I woke up one morning with a very

1:40:25.240 --> 1:40:30.040
<v Speaker 2>bad headache, only to come fully conscious and realize that

1:40:30.240 --> 1:40:38.880
<v Speaker 2>she had a loaded handgun pressing against my forehead, and

1:40:38.920 --> 1:40:43.240
<v Speaker 2>it did disturb me a little bit. I talked her

1:40:43.240 --> 1:40:49.360
<v Speaker 2>down by offering her some more drugs, which I didn't have,

1:40:49.520 --> 1:40:51.559
<v Speaker 2>but it was long enough to get that gun out

1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:55.840
<v Speaker 2>of her hand. And then I filed for divorce, and

1:40:55.960 --> 1:41:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I thought I had substantial cause she ended up dying,

1:41:01.120 --> 1:41:05.080
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately as a result of her drug use. And then

1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I met my wife, my current wife, who is just

1:41:09.280 --> 1:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>absolutely my savior. Yeah, she's an incredible woman. I've never

1:41:19.080 --> 1:41:23.320
<v Speaker 2>known a woman like that. When I met her, I

1:41:23.439 --> 1:41:25.960
<v Speaker 2>was still I was coming off the heels of the

1:41:26.080 --> 1:41:30.840
<v Speaker 2>John Mellencamp produced album Never Kick a Sleeping Dog, and

1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:34.800
<v Speaker 2>so I was in Detroit anyway, reborn as a star,

1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:40.120
<v Speaker 2>and not that you would know, but that song we covered,

1:41:40.120 --> 1:41:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the Prince Song, did chart, and it was the first

1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:44.120
<v Speaker 2>time I was.

1:41:44.920 --> 1:41:47.040
<v Speaker 1>That's my favorite song on that album. When you did

1:41:47.040 --> 1:41:50.320
<v Speaker 1>a cover, I woke right up and said, wow, And

1:41:50.360 --> 1:41:51.120
<v Speaker 1>it was a great cover.

1:41:52.240 --> 1:41:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, I saw it in

1:41:54.880 --> 1:42:00.559
<v Speaker 2>a movie called Hot Dog or something, A bunch of skiers, right, yeah,

1:42:00.560 --> 1:42:03.880
<v Speaker 2>a nice, nice groove and you know, a great experience.

1:42:03.920 --> 1:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>And then thanks to John believing in me. So I've

1:42:08.960 --> 1:42:10.360
<v Speaker 2>had help along the way.

1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:13.479
<v Speaker 1>But you were telling me about meeting your third wife.

1:42:14.280 --> 1:42:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so I'm hot again. And the higher the record

1:42:20.200 --> 1:42:23.879
<v Speaker 2>goes in the charts, the prettier the girls get every week. Okay,

1:42:24.200 --> 1:42:33.439
<v Speaker 2>it's just a fact. She was different because I was

1:42:34.840 --> 1:42:39.960
<v Speaker 2>getting divorced and she had been divorced, and she had

1:42:40.320 --> 1:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>two little kids in a shopping cart and we're in

1:42:44.000 --> 1:42:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Kmart and we both end up at the flower shop

1:42:47.280 --> 1:42:50.519
<v Speaker 2>together and I'm looking for roses, and I asked, do

1:42:50.560 --> 1:42:54.479
<v Speaker 2>you know anything about roses, kind of offhandedly because I

1:42:54.520 --> 1:42:56.800
<v Speaker 2>saw the kids and I wasn't really ready to mess

1:42:56.840 --> 1:43:01.400
<v Speaker 2>with any of that, And she said, yeah, in fact,

1:43:01.439 --> 1:43:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking for some stuff from my garden as well.

1:43:06.120 --> 1:43:08.759
<v Speaker 2>I think what you're looking for is over there and whatever.

1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:14.240
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, it sparked a conversation, but not too many

1:43:14.280 --> 1:43:23.880
<v Speaker 2>details were forthcoming from her, and she we ended up

1:43:23.880 --> 1:43:30.280
<v Speaker 2>in line together, and they pushed my stuff through. She's

1:43:30.320 --> 1:43:35.000
<v Speaker 2>behind me, and the lady sees her stuff on the

1:43:35.000 --> 1:43:37.439
<v Speaker 2>counter and thinks her together and starts pushing her stuff

1:43:37.479 --> 1:43:42.439
<v Speaker 2>through as well. And she stops the lady and said, no, no, no, no, no,

1:43:42.479 --> 1:43:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that's that's not his. Those are my belongings. And I said, well,

1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:58.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, hey, I'm sorry she did that. If you want,

1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:02.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I can help help you. Because she didn't

1:44:02.280 --> 1:44:07.320
<v Speaker 2>look like she had much money. In fact, she didn't,

1:44:09.120 --> 1:44:15.760
<v Speaker 2>so she wasn't enjoining, she wasn't getting into that. She

1:44:15.800 --> 1:44:17.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't like to pick up line, she didn't like any

1:44:18.040 --> 1:44:22.200
<v Speaker 2>of that stuff. But one thing I realized about her was,

1:44:23.240 --> 1:44:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and I swear to you this is the truth as

1:44:27.320 --> 1:44:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I know it, I did not want She's beautiful. She's

1:44:33.000 --> 1:44:41.559
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful woman physically, intellectually, morally, she's industrious, intelligent, as

1:44:41.560 --> 1:44:50.320
<v Speaker 2>they say down south, she cleans up well. She if

1:44:50.320 --> 1:44:52.880
<v Speaker 2>it had been any other woman, Because I was out

1:44:52.920 --> 1:44:57.920
<v Speaker 2>of that marriage and I just would have wanted to

1:44:57.960 --> 1:44:59.840
<v Speaker 2>take her to bed, but I didn't want to touch

1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:05.080
<v Speaker 2>the woman. We corresponded, We telephone called, We went on

1:45:05.200 --> 1:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>dates for a year and a half before the thought

1:45:09.040 --> 1:45:12.680
<v Speaker 2>sex even came into my mind. I mean that was

1:45:13.000 --> 1:45:22.040
<v Speaker 2>something absolutely I had never experienced before. No, she was

1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:37.400
<v Speaker 2>this woman so whole, uh and and honest and industrious

1:45:37.479 --> 1:45:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I mean she put she changes electrical

1:45:41.040 --> 1:45:44.960
<v Speaker 2>sockets around the house, she runs wiring, and she she

1:45:45.080 --> 1:45:48.479
<v Speaker 2>does all the technical stuff and then she has these

1:45:48.520 --> 1:45:53.360
<v Speaker 2>beautiful gardens. She she makes and designs, and she loves

1:45:53.360 --> 1:45:56.880
<v Speaker 2>a clean house. And she's uh, she plays pickleball every

1:45:56.960 --> 1:46:02.680
<v Speaker 2>day she can, and she's really good, you know. And

1:46:02.720 --> 1:46:12.519
<v Speaker 2>she's see she is seventy seven years old, or not

1:46:12.680 --> 1:46:18.280
<v Speaker 2>seventy seven, sixty seven years old. I'm eighty. So you know,

1:46:18.439 --> 1:46:22.800
<v Speaker 2>the big big drama here is I'm going to be

1:46:22.880 --> 1:46:27.439
<v Speaker 2>leaving probably if things go according to the plan before

1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:35.439
<v Speaker 2>she does. And it's it's brought some deep feelings between us.

1:46:36.520 --> 1:46:41.200
<v Speaker 2>We bonded, I think even closer than we thought was possible.

1:46:41.560 --> 1:46:47.679
<v Speaker 2>And here's the woman that we did get divorced after

1:46:47.760 --> 1:46:54.040
<v Speaker 2>three years, and we took those three years to understand

1:46:54.080 --> 1:47:00.400
<v Speaker 2>that there was nothing out there that satisfying the two

1:47:00.439 --> 1:47:06.240
<v Speaker 2>of us as much as we satisfied ourselves on all

1:47:06.360 --> 1:47:14.160
<v Speaker 2>levels of thought and action. The trick about sex is

1:47:14.240 --> 1:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>that's usually the first thing that people use as an

1:47:16.920 --> 1:47:21.479
<v Speaker 2>introduction card, and that's no basis for a relationship at all.

1:47:22.120 --> 1:47:25.599
<v Speaker 2>So I think we did it the right way. We

1:47:26.120 --> 1:47:31.400
<v Speaker 2>studied each other for that year and a half before

1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:35.479
<v Speaker 2>I married her, and the divorce came and we realized

1:47:35.520 --> 1:47:40.040
<v Speaker 2>that we couldn't do it without each other, and we

1:47:40.120 --> 1:47:45.800
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be back together. And we've had some hard times,

1:47:48.880 --> 1:47:51.599
<v Speaker 2>but we've had some grand times. And I took her

1:47:51.960 --> 1:47:54.599
<v Speaker 2>to see the world that she wouldn't have been capable

1:47:54.640 --> 1:47:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of seeing. She's got friends all over the country. She's

1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:02.479
<v Speaker 2>been to eighteen year nineteen different countries, and she's got

1:48:02.520 --> 1:48:07.280
<v Speaker 2>friends in all of them. This is a beautiful woman.

1:48:07.880 --> 1:48:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Her name's Megan.

1:48:16.960 --> 1:48:18.160
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about fame.

1:48:19.680 --> 1:48:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's one of the most destruct It's one of

1:48:23.360 --> 1:48:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the most misunderstood aspects of American culture. It changes people,

1:48:30.320 --> 1:48:34.560
<v Speaker 2>so normally it changes you know. I had this discussion

1:48:34.600 --> 1:48:37.000
<v Speaker 2>with a high school buddy of mine who's still alive.

1:48:41.120 --> 1:48:46.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I changed. I became just something for

1:48:47.600 --> 1:48:52.400
<v Speaker 2>all these different people that needed different work and different jobs,

1:48:53.000 --> 1:48:55.320
<v Speaker 2>a new piece of meat to hang your hat on

1:48:55.520 --> 1:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>and make some money. And I was following directions and

1:49:01.120 --> 1:49:05.519
<v Speaker 2>orders and stuff, and their perception of me. Well, he's

1:49:05.560 --> 1:49:12.160
<v Speaker 2>a star now he You know, he's got to have changed. No, No,

1:49:13.240 --> 1:49:20.240
<v Speaker 2>if anything, No, my buddy's and kids from high school,

1:49:20.800 --> 1:49:24.320
<v Speaker 2>they've changed with their regard to their attitude towards me.

1:49:26.360 --> 1:49:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I know this because I've sat and talked to the

1:49:29.040 --> 1:49:33.400
<v Speaker 2>old buddy I was telling you about, and his idea

1:49:33.439 --> 1:49:36.120
<v Speaker 2>of what's happened in my life is way different from

1:49:36.160 --> 1:49:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the reality I'm living through. So famous, it was harder

1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:51.320
<v Speaker 2>to get back when I was looking for it. I

1:49:51.479 --> 1:49:55.240
<v Speaker 2>just it's not that I don't understand what's happening now.

1:49:55.320 --> 1:49:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I do.

1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:58.840
<v Speaker 2>I simply am not in a position of power to

1:49:58.960 --> 1:50:01.400
<v Speaker 2>make the moves that have to be made.

1:50:02.479 --> 1:50:06.120
<v Speaker 1>But is it an advantage or a disadvantage of both

1:50:06.240 --> 1:50:08.760
<v Speaker 1>being famous? I mean, if you go out to the

1:50:08.800 --> 1:50:12.160
<v Speaker 1>grocery store, you go people to people recognize you. Do

1:50:12.200 --> 1:50:14.439
<v Speaker 1>you ever trade on your name and say I can't

1:50:14.439 --> 1:50:16.960
<v Speaker 1>get a reservation, but tell them I'm Mitch Ryder stuff

1:50:17.000 --> 1:50:17.280
<v Speaker 1>like that.

1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, these days, yeah, that still works in Detroit because

1:50:21.840 --> 1:50:27.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Detroit boy. I remember they did a special

1:50:27.160 --> 1:50:29.679
<v Speaker 2>on me with one of the local TV channels and

1:50:29.720 --> 1:50:32.759
<v Speaker 2>they put us in Washington, d C. And they asked

1:50:32.800 --> 1:50:35.120
<v Speaker 2>ten people on the street, have you ever heard of

1:50:35.160 --> 1:50:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Mitch Ryder? And only one person said yes out of

1:50:38.120 --> 1:50:43.040
<v Speaker 2>the ten. So you know, but in Detroit, everybody knows

1:50:43.080 --> 1:50:48.320
<v Speaker 2>the name. If not, they can ask their grandma. She'll

1:50:48.400 --> 1:50:57.200
<v Speaker 2>tell them. It's famous. Corruptive, you know, if you're not careful,

1:50:57.520 --> 1:51:00.400
<v Speaker 2>it can lead you into believing that you're something you're not,

1:51:00.680 --> 1:51:09.439
<v Speaker 2>other than a human. I don't put cabinets together. I

1:51:09.479 --> 1:51:13.559
<v Speaker 2>couldn't build you a chair. I couldn't There's a lot

1:51:13.560 --> 1:51:16.000
<v Speaker 2>of things I can't do. But I do know music

1:51:16.040 --> 1:51:18.360
<v Speaker 2>because it's been the only pursuit I've had.

1:51:20.680 --> 1:51:21.120
<v Speaker 1>And to.

1:51:25.040 --> 1:51:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Understand that these other people I'm talking about, with the

1:51:28.640 --> 1:51:31.960
<v Speaker 2>different occupations, they're no different from me. They're going to

1:51:32.000 --> 1:51:37.040
<v Speaker 2>have success or failure too. And I think essentially all

1:51:37.080 --> 1:51:39.200
<v Speaker 2>a man wants in this world is to be able

1:51:39.240 --> 1:51:42.000
<v Speaker 2>to have his dignity and be able to feed his

1:51:42.040 --> 1:51:46.519
<v Speaker 2>family and keep him in shelter and keep him healthy.

1:51:47.040 --> 1:51:49.760
<v Speaker 2>That's all anybody wants all over the world. But there's

1:51:49.760 --> 1:51:53.400
<v Speaker 2>so many greedy assholes out there that are just making

1:51:53.439 --> 1:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>it difficult for people to get even a living way.

1:52:01.400 --> 1:52:05.960
<v Speaker 2>And I just like I said in the beginning, this

1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:08.360
<v Speaker 2>is the first time this has happened in our history.

1:52:08.360 --> 1:52:12.160
<v Speaker 2>It won't be the last, But what you're seeing is

1:52:12.439 --> 1:52:17.800
<v Speaker 2>an erosion. The only people I believe when they swear

1:52:17.840 --> 1:52:23.280
<v Speaker 2>an oath to the Constitution are the soldiers, the frontline infantry,

1:52:23.320 --> 1:52:25.400
<v Speaker 2>people of the men and women that are willing to

1:52:25.439 --> 1:52:28.519
<v Speaker 2>give up their lives. I'll believe them when they swear

1:52:28.600 --> 1:52:31.280
<v Speaker 2>to the Constitution. But it seems to me like there's

1:52:31.320 --> 1:52:33.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people lying about it right now.

1:52:35.920 --> 1:52:38.920
<v Speaker 1>So in your regular life, are you Bill or you Mitch?

1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:43.120
<v Speaker 2>It really depends on how long we get to know

1:52:43.200 --> 1:52:43.639
<v Speaker 2>each other.

1:52:46.080 --> 1:52:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, what does your wife call you.

1:52:49.600 --> 1:52:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Idiot?

1:52:54.439 --> 1:52:58.240
<v Speaker 1>When she's happier with you? Does she use Bill or Mitch?

1:53:00.360 --> 1:53:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Billy?

1:53:02.080 --> 1:53:04.439
<v Speaker 1>And on your passport, what does it say.

1:53:05.840 --> 1:53:09.439
<v Speaker 2>William s Leviice jor And let me ask you a question.

1:53:10.280 --> 1:53:13.640
<v Speaker 2>If you're a junior and your dad dies, are you

1:53:13.720 --> 1:53:14.759
<v Speaker 2>no longer a junior?

1:53:18.200 --> 1:53:22.960
<v Speaker 1>That's an interesting Okay, So did you contemplate naming your

1:53:23.040 --> 1:53:23.920
<v Speaker 1>child the third?

1:53:25.200 --> 1:53:27.640
<v Speaker 2>No? But you know one of the original names they

1:53:27.680 --> 1:53:29.679
<v Speaker 2>wanted for me in New York when they were searching

1:53:29.760 --> 1:53:36.519
<v Speaker 2>for one was Michael Rothschild. At least you be rich, right,

1:53:37.120 --> 1:53:40.880
<v Speaker 2>like I'm gonna like, you know, I'm going to diss

1:53:40.920 --> 1:53:47.320
<v Speaker 2>a whole financial establishment in Europe. That was crazy, vincent.

1:53:47.640 --> 1:53:49.160
<v Speaker 1>How did it end up being Mitch Ryder?

1:53:49.920 --> 1:53:52.759
<v Speaker 2>H A finger fell on a name in the phone book,

1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:55.439
<v Speaker 2>and there were five of them, And I felt so

1:53:55.600 --> 1:53:58.599
<v Speaker 2>bad about it that I literally called all those people

1:53:58.640 --> 1:54:03.040
<v Speaker 2>and apologized to him for whatever problems I had brought

1:54:03.080 --> 1:54:05.560
<v Speaker 2>into their life.

1:54:05.880 --> 1:54:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Wow, So there there were five people named Mitch Ryder.

1:54:09.840 --> 1:54:14.600
<v Speaker 2>No, there was like an m writer, there was a miswriter,

1:54:14.840 --> 1:54:18.800
<v Speaker 2>there was a Mitch writer. One Mitch writer. And did

1:54:18.840 --> 1:54:21.759
<v Speaker 2>you know that? There was a rest but he died recently.

1:54:21.920 --> 1:54:25.280
<v Speaker 2>He called himself Mitch Writer too, because he appeared on

1:54:25.320 --> 1:54:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Google once when I punched in my name.

1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Billy, you dropped a lot of wisdom on us.

1:54:34.560 --> 1:54:37.600
<v Speaker 1>It's great to hear that you're so optimistic and driven

1:54:37.680 --> 1:54:41.320
<v Speaker 1>for the future, still dreaming. Too many people get up

1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:43.360
<v Speaker 1>the dreams. I wish you luck, and I wish a

1:54:43.360 --> 1:54:44.680
<v Speaker 1>benefactor find show.

1:54:46.400 --> 1:54:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not so important. It would be helpful but

1:54:50.840 --> 1:54:54.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know how life is.

1:54:55.400 --> 1:54:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe that you have a smile on your fee.

1:54:57.560 --> 1:55:00.680
<v Speaker 1>You've been through a lot and not all positive, and

1:55:00.760 --> 1:55:03.680
<v Speaker 1>the fact that you have a positive attitude is really

1:55:04.120 --> 1:55:06.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty enlightening and a beacon for those of us who

1:55:06.640 --> 1:55:08.200
<v Speaker 1>can't always stay so positive.

1:55:09.640 --> 1:55:12.920
<v Speaker 2>But you know what, look at what choices we have.

1:55:13.720 --> 1:55:17.880
<v Speaker 2>You only have two choices. Why would anybody want to

1:55:17.960 --> 1:55:25.760
<v Speaker 2>waste their life regretting the experience? We all knew this

1:55:25.800 --> 1:55:29.000
<v Speaker 2>is how it worked. You start dying from the day

1:55:29.000 --> 1:55:35.960
<v Speaker 2>you're born. So life is not easy. And believe me,

1:55:36.120 --> 1:55:40.320
<v Speaker 2>this is not anything to be ashamed of or feel

1:55:40.560 --> 1:55:43.120
<v Speaker 2>sorrow about. Yeah, you don't want to leave the people

1:55:43.160 --> 1:55:46.680
<v Speaker 2>you love, but if you're in a place where you're

1:55:46.800 --> 1:55:55.240
<v Speaker 2>not having a life that is enjoyable and you're suffering,

1:55:56.880 --> 1:56:02.720
<v Speaker 2>there's really why do you want to be here? Why

1:56:02.760 --> 1:56:04.360
<v Speaker 2>do you want to stay in a place where you're

1:56:04.400 --> 1:56:09.200
<v Speaker 2>suffering and you cannot get rid of the suffering? And

1:56:09.240 --> 1:56:13.080
<v Speaker 2>they you know, I've asked myself that question, but fortunately

1:56:14.000 --> 1:56:17.520
<v Speaker 2>there is an answer. You look forward to waking up

1:56:17.560 --> 1:56:20.200
<v Speaker 2>and seeing that sun the next day, and that's all

1:56:20.240 --> 1:56:23.480
<v Speaker 2>you need to know that you can carry on. You

1:56:23.520 --> 1:56:26.760
<v Speaker 2>can realize whatever dream it was that you haven't found,

1:56:26.760 --> 1:56:28.720
<v Speaker 2>and you now found a way to look for it,

1:56:29.400 --> 1:56:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Go for it, you know, just do the positive stuff

1:56:34.200 --> 1:56:38.360
<v Speaker 2>and forget all that. I could talk to you for

1:56:38.520 --> 1:56:42.560
<v Speaker 2>hours about it, but my wife warned me in the beginning.

1:56:43.480 --> 1:56:51.280
<v Speaker 2>No politics, no religion, and those are just like a

1:56:51.400 --> 1:56:57.280
<v Speaker 2>tinder box waiting to be lit. We could expand this

1:56:57.360 --> 1:57:04.760
<v Speaker 2>conversation into some deep intellectual, thoughtful properties and meanings and things,

1:57:04.840 --> 1:57:10.800
<v Speaker 2>but I don't choose to do that. That's not what

1:57:10.880 --> 1:57:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I do. You know, I don't ask myself when my

1:57:14.880 --> 1:57:18.840
<v Speaker 2>audience walks into a venue to see me. I don't

1:57:18.880 --> 1:57:24.840
<v Speaker 2>ask if they're a Republican or Democrat. That's irrelevant. They

1:57:24.920 --> 1:57:27.680
<v Speaker 2>came to hear music that they love or they wouldn't

1:57:27.680 --> 1:57:31.800
<v Speaker 2>be paying, and so why why muddy the waters with

1:57:32.040 --> 1:57:36.520
<v Speaker 2>something that they didn't want. If I feel like grand standing,

1:57:37.000 --> 1:57:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll take it off the show stage and put it

1:57:39.800 --> 1:57:44.680
<v Speaker 2>on a street corner. Look at the problem that Bruce

1:57:44.680 --> 1:57:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Springsteen's going to have now when he comes home. Do

1:57:49.880 --> 1:57:51.600
<v Speaker 2>you understand what I'm talking about?

1:57:51.720 --> 1:57:55.720
<v Speaker 1>I do, But he's in a slightly different financial and

1:57:55.800 --> 1:57:57.040
<v Speaker 1>career spot than you are.

1:57:58.040 --> 1:58:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, true enough, and you.

1:58:00.840 --> 1:58:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Know, listen, I could go on about this forever myself,

1:58:06.480 --> 1:58:11.040
<v Speaker 1>but if you're trying to please everybody, no one can

1:58:11.120 --> 1:58:13.360
<v Speaker 1>do that. Even if you get on stage and you

1:58:13.520 --> 1:58:15.480
<v Speaker 1>just do your music, they're going to be people who

1:58:15.840 --> 1:58:19.200
<v Speaker 1>dislike you or dislike that style of music. You're right,

1:58:19.240 --> 1:58:22.800
<v Speaker 1>so you make choices. And the artists that we became

1:58:22.960 --> 1:58:26.760
<v Speaker 1>enamored of when you were so successful was because they

1:58:26.760 --> 1:58:29.640
<v Speaker 1>took a stand, whatever that stand might be, and they

1:58:29.640 --> 1:58:32.960
<v Speaker 1>were speaking their truth through the music. It was different

1:58:33.000 --> 1:58:35.880
<v Speaker 1>from you know, as you put it, Tin Pan Alley,

1:58:36.760 --> 1:58:40.120
<v Speaker 1>But you know, I think that's also a difference between

1:58:40.200 --> 1:58:41.440
<v Speaker 1>yesterday and today.

1:58:41.880 --> 1:58:45.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, one of my heroes is I have very

1:58:45.160 --> 1:58:48.879
<v Speaker 2>few of them. I have the greatest love and affection

1:58:49.040 --> 1:58:49.880
<v Speaker 2>for Bob Dylan.

1:58:50.960 --> 1:58:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Tell me why he is not.

1:58:58.720 --> 1:59:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Afraid to talk about any subject. He's just simply and

1:59:11.840 --> 1:59:15.600
<v Speaker 2>he does it with such ambiguity that it's it's clever

1:59:15.760 --> 1:59:19.680
<v Speaker 2>because you you, three different people could listen to a

1:59:19.720 --> 1:59:22.160
<v Speaker 2>line from one of his songs and come out with

1:59:22.200 --> 1:59:29.400
<v Speaker 2>three different meanings. You know, That's why he's so damn cool.

1:59:32.480 --> 1:59:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Is he still working? It's something somebody, I mean.

1:59:34.880 --> 1:59:39.120
<v Speaker 1>He's been working. I respect I respect Dylan for everything

1:59:39.360 --> 1:59:41.760
<v Speaker 1>he did in his work. But one thing I respect

1:59:41.840 --> 1:59:44.480
<v Speaker 1>him for is he goes on the road and makes

1:59:44.480 --> 1:59:47.120
<v Speaker 1>it interesting to him. I don't want to go see it.

1:59:47.560 --> 1:59:50.880
<v Speaker 1>I have seen it. But you go to see Dylan,

1:59:51.280 --> 1:59:56.000
<v Speaker 1>he rearranges all the songs to the point of unrecognizability.

1:59:57.040 --> 1:59:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I know what you're talking about because we went through

1:59:59.280 --> 2:00:02.840
<v Speaker 2>that experience. It's my wife and I three years ago,

2:00:03.720 --> 2:00:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I believe. And he had been on the road so

2:00:07.000 --> 2:00:10.160
<v Speaker 2>long that first of all, the first thing you noticed

2:00:10.280 --> 2:00:13.720
<v Speaker 2>was that he had lost his voice. Okay, everything was

2:00:13.800 --> 2:00:22.600
<v Speaker 2>like a growl. And then suddenly you'll put put in

2:00:22.680 --> 2:00:26.760
<v Speaker 2>the name of the song right right where you can

2:00:26.800 --> 2:00:31.600
<v Speaker 2>tell what song it was. But in spite of that,

2:00:32.040 --> 2:00:35.120
<v Speaker 2>he did write those wonderful, wonderful.

2:00:34.840 --> 2:00:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Song No listen, I could quote that stuff ad infinitum.

2:00:38.920 --> 2:00:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Who were your favorites when you were a teenager? Who

2:00:41.080 --> 2:00:41.560
<v Speaker 2>did you like?

2:00:41.680 --> 2:00:45.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh, come on, okay, I mean, if you want to start,

2:00:45.440 --> 2:00:48.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm younger. I'm ten years not ten, but

2:00:48.200 --> 2:00:51.080
<v Speaker 1>eight years younger than you. So the first stuff you heard,

2:00:51.120 --> 2:00:55.320
<v Speaker 1>all that Beatles stuff whatever, I mean, all the eldest

2:00:55.320 --> 2:00:59.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff was really before my time. And then Babying and

2:00:59.480 --> 2:01:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Bobby were aware of the first stuff that resonated in

2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:06.480
<v Speaker 1>the other than the novelty tracks were the Beach Boys

2:01:06.520 --> 2:01:09.520
<v Speaker 1>in the Four Seasons, and then of course the Beatles

2:01:09.600 --> 2:01:11.880
<v Speaker 1>hit and that was everything. And you live in the

2:01:11.920 --> 2:01:16.320
<v Speaker 1>New York market and you had all the FM radio,

2:01:16.560 --> 2:01:18.760
<v Speaker 1>so you know Quem Hendrix, I could go on to

2:01:18.840 --> 2:01:20.040
<v Speaker 1>who all that stuff.

2:01:20.680 --> 2:01:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I knew all those guys. That's crazy.

2:01:23.720 --> 2:01:28.200
<v Speaker 3>And you know what people don't realize is it was

2:01:28.360 --> 2:01:31.400
<v Speaker 3>different if you wanted to know what was going on,

2:01:31.520 --> 2:01:33.840
<v Speaker 3>if you were younger, you turned on the radio. Not

2:01:33.920 --> 2:01:36.520
<v Speaker 3>only did you get the songs, you got news, it

2:01:36.560 --> 2:01:40.600
<v Speaker 3>applied to you, et cetera. And there's always been music.

2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:44.760
<v Speaker 3>There was music before the Beatles. But just like with tech,

2:01:44.960 --> 2:01:48.680
<v Speaker 3>from like nineteen ninety five to like five years ago,

2:01:49.080 --> 2:01:52.680
<v Speaker 3>we were all focused on it. That's what it was

2:01:52.800 --> 2:01:56.680
<v Speaker 3>like with music. It drove everything, just like today it's

2:01:56.880 --> 2:02:00.680
<v Speaker 3>like politics. You opened the paper every day and you

2:02:00.760 --> 2:02:05.160
<v Speaker 3>see a story that causes an emotion, whether you disagree, whatever,

2:02:05.560 --> 2:02:09.480
<v Speaker 3>there's a passion That is not what we're getting from music.

2:02:09.600 --> 2:02:14.320
<v Speaker 3>Music now is more entertainment, more commerce. And I'm talking

2:02:14.360 --> 2:02:18.840
<v Speaker 3>in generalities because there's thousands of acts doing all kinds

2:02:18.880 --> 2:02:21.560
<v Speaker 3>of music. But as you were talking earlier about the

2:02:21.560 --> 2:02:26.840
<v Speaker 3>Hot one hundred, you know, we know those songs by heart.

2:02:27.240 --> 2:02:30.880
<v Speaker 3>And the other thing was, yeah, they talked about turntable

2:02:30.960 --> 2:02:33.480
<v Speaker 3>hits with the reality was it had to be really

2:02:33.560 --> 2:02:35.920
<v Speaker 3>fucking great in order to make it.

2:02:36.320 --> 2:02:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, Barry Gordy said, it's what's in the

2:02:39.160 --> 2:02:41.600
<v Speaker 2>grooves that comes absolutely.

2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:45.000
<v Speaker 1>And you know, the other good thing is that you know,

2:02:45.040 --> 2:02:47.720
<v Speaker 1>for a while there it was how you looked and whatever.

2:02:47.840 --> 2:02:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Now it's you know, because you know now it's based

2:02:50.560 --> 2:02:52.640
<v Speaker 1>back to the record. Yeah, people want to be able

2:02:52.680 --> 2:02:54.920
<v Speaker 1>to see what you look whatever, but that's not the

2:02:55.120 --> 2:02:58.200
<v Speaker 1>number one thing you're selling. One more question for you, though,

2:02:58.200 --> 2:03:02.760
<v Speaker 1>because what did you think when you found out Springsteen

2:03:02.880 --> 2:03:05.160
<v Speaker 1>was doing a medley of your songs?

2:03:06.440 --> 2:03:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, he invited me and we did perform them together

2:03:09.160 --> 2:03:12.480
<v Speaker 2>here in Detroit, But when was the first one. There

2:03:12.520 --> 2:03:14.680
<v Speaker 2>was a funny part to that though, because I got

2:03:14.720 --> 2:03:19.720
<v Speaker 2>so involved in the show. You know, I hadn't played

2:03:19.760 --> 2:03:22.960
<v Speaker 2>a venue like Cobo Hall where he was in such

2:03:22.960 --> 2:03:27.120
<v Speaker 2>a long time that I was very excited and we

2:03:27.160 --> 2:03:33.160
<v Speaker 2>started doing my songs and I actually just it's so

2:03:33.200 --> 2:03:37.440
<v Speaker 2>insane and embarrassing to talk about Bruce laughed about it,

2:03:37.480 --> 2:03:40.840
<v Speaker 2>but I was so into the show. I turned around

2:03:40.880 --> 2:03:44.320
<v Speaker 2>to Max, the drummer, and I signaled him to turn down,

2:03:45.200 --> 2:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>and he just he looked at me with these like

2:03:48.400 --> 2:03:51.400
<v Speaker 2>a deer caught in headlights, and then looked at the

2:03:51.440 --> 2:03:53.160
<v Speaker 2>boss and you want to know, what do I do?

2:03:53.280 --> 2:03:57.880
<v Speaker 2>What I do? Oh? You know, it was fun. There was,

2:03:57.920 --> 2:03:59.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, a kick ass performance.

2:04:00.120 --> 2:04:02.240
<v Speaker 1>But when was the first time if you remember, you

2:04:02.240 --> 2:04:04.520
<v Speaker 1>were aware that he was doing that medley.

2:04:07.960 --> 2:04:10.839
<v Speaker 2>When he called me to come and rehearse it. Really,

2:04:11.280 --> 2:04:14.160
<v Speaker 2>we went in a day early and he said, I'm

2:04:14.200 --> 2:04:18.000
<v Speaker 2>coming to Detroit, and I wondered if you'd be kind

2:04:18.120 --> 2:04:22.640
<v Speaker 2>enough to come up and sing your songs. I said, well,

2:04:23.360 --> 2:04:26.000
<v Speaker 2>not all of them. He said, well, no, just too

2:04:26.000 --> 2:04:26.720
<v Speaker 2>in particular.

2:04:30.320 --> 2:04:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, of all of the people you know in your book,

2:04:33.440 --> 2:04:37.440
<v Speaker 1>you list all the musicians you've met, tell me one

2:04:37.520 --> 2:04:40.040
<v Speaker 1>or two that lived up to the image, because they

2:04:40.120 --> 2:04:41.320
<v Speaker 1>usually don't.

2:04:43.480 --> 2:04:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Lived up to the image as projected by them or

2:04:46.320 --> 2:04:47.839
<v Speaker 2>as perceived by the public.

2:04:48.800 --> 2:04:51.920
<v Speaker 1>I would say, it's really a combination of both, but

2:04:52.000 --> 2:04:54.560
<v Speaker 1>it's what in your mind they represented.

2:04:57.320 --> 2:05:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Well, first of all, one of the most heart

2:05:07.000 --> 2:05:12.240
<v Speaker 2>rendering voices I got fell in love with was Otis reading.

2:05:14.440 --> 2:05:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever hear cigarettes and coffee by him? I

2:05:17.520 --> 2:05:20.120
<v Speaker 2>don't remember it at the top of my head. No, no, okay,

2:05:20.160 --> 2:05:24.400
<v Speaker 2>but okay. He was very emotive. It was very very

2:05:24.440 --> 2:05:28.280
<v Speaker 2>capable of making you hear him cry if he was crying.

2:05:31.440 --> 2:05:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Just a good natural connect with that voice. And I

2:05:37.440 --> 2:05:41.960
<v Speaker 2>remember doing this TV show. It occurred like the night

2:05:42.040 --> 2:05:45.000
<v Speaker 2>before he flew out of Cleveland and died in Lake, Michigan.

2:05:48.120 --> 2:05:52.320
<v Speaker 2>He was a tall man and at the end, while

2:05:52.320 --> 2:05:55.520
<v Speaker 2>they're rolling the credits, we were closing the show, he

2:05:55.640 --> 2:05:57.720
<v Speaker 2>put his arm around my right shoulder, and he's a

2:05:57.800 --> 2:06:01.400
<v Speaker 2>much taller man than myself, and he started rocking, and

2:06:01.440 --> 2:06:03.440
<v Speaker 2>every time he rocked to the left, my whole right

2:06:03.520 --> 2:06:06.960
<v Speaker 2>leg would come up off the crowd. So I was like,

2:06:07.040 --> 2:06:11.000
<v Speaker 2>it was like he was a puppeteer, you know. I

2:06:11.080 --> 2:06:14.480
<v Speaker 2>just I enjoyed meeting all of these people, hundreds and

2:06:14.560 --> 2:06:17.280
<v Speaker 2>hundreds and hundreds of all these people that are stars

2:06:18.120 --> 2:06:26.720
<v Speaker 2>that made it. I've spent time with him, I've you know, shared. Yeah, Yeah,

2:06:26.760 --> 2:06:30.360
<v Speaker 2>it's been wonderful. It's been a remarkable experience.

2:06:30.400 --> 2:06:33.160
<v Speaker 1>To what degreed did you wrestle with imposter syndrome?

2:06:36.440 --> 2:06:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Imposter syndrome where you say.

2:06:38.640 --> 2:06:41.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm not worthy. They're on a different level. I don't

2:06:41.680 --> 2:06:44.360
<v Speaker 1>deserve the success. Maybe you didn't wrestle with that at all,

2:06:44.840 --> 2:06:49.640
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of people do.

2:06:49.120 --> 2:06:55.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm honored that people think that way. Are you talking

2:06:55.240 --> 2:06:57.480
<v Speaker 2>about people giving me accolades and stuff.

2:06:57.840 --> 2:07:03.240
<v Speaker 1>No, it's like being on stage with another ract and saying, Oh,

2:07:03.280 --> 2:07:06.920
<v Speaker 1>do I deserve to be here? Do I deserve the

2:07:06.960 --> 2:07:08.560
<v Speaker 1>way people are looking at me?

2:07:12.320 --> 2:07:15.000
<v Speaker 2>If I was invited up on that stage by the headliner,

2:07:15.040 --> 2:07:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I'd have to say yes. Why else would you put

2:07:19.920 --> 2:07:24.080
<v Speaker 2>them up there to embarrass him? No?

2:07:24.080 --> 2:07:26.800
<v Speaker 1>No, it's good you have that confidence. Okay, we're gonna

2:07:26.880 --> 2:07:30.400
<v Speaker 1>leave it here. It's been great talking to Mitch Ryder.

2:07:31.200 --> 2:07:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Till next time. This is Bob Left said's