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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From how stuff Works dot Com. Hello, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristen Christ and today we're

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Speaker 1: going to discuss eco feminism. And I have to say

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Speaker 1: when I first heard about eco feminism and we thought

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Speaker 1: about it as a podcast topic, I thought, oh, this

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Speaker 1: will be really kind of easy because its name implies

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Speaker 1: what it is. It's an interest in both ecology and

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Speaker 1: feminism made into one word. But it turns out it

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Speaker 1: is just as complicated as all other feminisms that we

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Speaker 1: have discussed on this podcast. Surprise. Yeah. The reason why

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Speaker 1: we are talking about eco feminism is because How Eco

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Speaker 1: Feminism Works is an article that's been sitting on our website,

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Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot Com for quite a while now.

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Speaker 1: Eco Feminism actually existed on the site long before How

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Speaker 1: Feminism Works, which I wrote. It's a very great article,

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Speaker 1: and uh, Molly and I were always a little bit

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Speaker 1: surprised by that, and we kind of you know, talked about,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing a podcast on and then other things

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Speaker 1: would pop up, and then finally we said to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We said, let's do eco feminism, And you're right. It

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Speaker 1: does seem kind of simple and kind of no brainer

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Speaker 1: on the outset, but it is a little complicated when

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Speaker 1: you start digging. I think you can make any topic

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Speaker 1: complicated by just attacking feminism on the end of the word.

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Speaker 1: Some would say, yes, all right, so let's get in.

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Speaker 1: As I said, on its simplest level, is what it

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Speaker 1: sounds like. It is. An interest in ecology, is an

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Speaker 1: interest in feminism. But when you put them together you

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Speaker 1: can get um some conflicting ideas about what this topic

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Speaker 1: should stand for. Well, we should say first that the

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Speaker 1: term eco feminism was coined in nineteen seventy four from

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Speaker 1: a French feminist, Francois du Bone, who wrote a book

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Speaker 1: in French that I can't translate the name of. I thought,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna go for Christ and I was really excited

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Speaker 1: to hear here's some French pop out of you. But

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Speaker 1: you're right, and another significant author, nstra King when so

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Speaker 1: far As called eco feminism the third wave of the

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Speaker 1: feminist movement, which is a pretty radical statement to make

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Speaker 1: because we've talked a lot about, you know, first wave feminism,

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Speaker 1: second wave feminism of you know, the sixties and seventies

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Speaker 1: in particular, and then there's been a lot of debate

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Speaker 1: about whether or not a third wave exists, what it is,

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Speaker 1: and saying that eco feminism is the third wave is

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Speaker 1: pretty bold, i'd say, in your opinion. In my opinion, well, again,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things where on the surface

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Speaker 1: it does seem like it makes sense because think of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the messages were bombarded with on a daily

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Speaker 1: basis about the environment. It's something we've got to say.

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Speaker 1: We've got to conserve oil, we've got to live our

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Speaker 1: lives in a more friendly way to the earth so

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Speaker 1: that our grandchildren, and are those kids grandchildren, they have

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Speaker 1: a place to grow up. Um, So what they are

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Speaker 1: saying is that feminists and women in general have a

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Speaker 1: special interest in saving the environment in this way because

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Speaker 1: and this is where things start to get a little tricky,

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Speaker 1: because you throw in the o word oppression. Oppression. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is actually the word that I generally like to

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Speaker 1: avoid when discussing feminism. And so this is why it's tricky,

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Speaker 1: because eco feminists would say that the oppression of the

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Speaker 1: women and the oppression and destruction of the earth and

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Speaker 1: nature are closely connected because you can blame both of

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Speaker 1: them on men. Men and patriarchy. Um. And this is again,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know right here, you can

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Speaker 1: probably see where it starts. Get a little bit tricky

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Speaker 1: because this implies somehow that all the damage done to

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Speaker 1: the earth is by men, and that, you know, women

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Speaker 1: are oppressed. And like Christen said, it's not a word

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Speaker 1: we like to throw out because I wouldn't say that

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Speaker 1: I feel oppressed. I would say that things could change

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Speaker 1: so that there's more equality in the world. Right the

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Speaker 1: word of press in general seems to present sort of

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Speaker 1: a victim mentality that I'd say that, just speaking for myself,

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Speaker 1: that I'm a little bit uncomfortable with. But that's really

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Speaker 1: the crux of eco feminism as it came out in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies. It has evolved somewhat since then,

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Speaker 1: but that's really the root of it. Now. Another facet

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Speaker 1: of eco feminism that some eco feminists will adopt and

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Speaker 1: some will throw away is the idea that because women

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Speaker 1: are the homemakers and the ones who are gathering food,

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Speaker 1: let's say, then they have some sort of special connection

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Speaker 1: to the earth and a special desire to make sure

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Speaker 1: that it continues to exist for their children. UM. Some

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Speaker 1: people find this to be a very demeaning point of

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Speaker 1: view because it says that, you know, only women have

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Speaker 1: this connection. Other women find it very empowering that, yes,

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Speaker 1: we are somehow closer to the Earth by virtue of

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Speaker 1: being you know, mother's mother mother Earth. The connection is

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Speaker 1: made by a few people. Yeah, and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing about eco feminism because it's it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty radical school of thought in terms of linking you know,

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Speaker 1: this this environmental oppression to so called female oppression. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, it kind of saddles women with

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Speaker 1: this mother child bearing, you know UM function that a

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Speaker 1: lot of second way feminists were trying to kind of

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Speaker 1: get away from, you know, of becoming saying that women

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Speaker 1: are more than mothers, were, more than you know, baby machines.

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Speaker 1: We are people and individuals, right, And some eco feminists

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Speaker 1: do have sort of that more second way view where

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Speaker 1: they're saying, Okay, yes, maybe we have these typically stereotypically

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Speaker 1: female traits such as cooperation and sensitivity, and these seem

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Speaker 1: to be married with, you know, the so called male

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Speaker 1: traits of um aggressively pursuing an idea in a way

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Speaker 1: that will somehow, you know, solve our environmental problems. But

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Speaker 1: others will just say, no, you know, we're we're mothers,

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Speaker 1: we must mother the earth. And it's kind of uh mean,

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Speaker 1: not to pass judgment, but to put it simply, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a hippie dippy idea that a lot of

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Speaker 1: feminist academics have trouble with. Another idea that these feminist

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Speaker 1: academics have trouble with is the idea of spirituality within

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Speaker 1: eco feminism, because one of the things that came out

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Speaker 1: of the eco feminist movement or was sort of happening

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Speaker 1: at the same time, was this emergence of earth goddesses

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Speaker 1: and rejecting a church that some viewed as patriarchal to

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Speaker 1: you know, worship with the altar of earth goddesses. And

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Speaker 1: so when you've got one eco feminist saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: our our earth mother and our earth goddesses compel us

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Speaker 1: to take care of the environment, and then you've got

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Speaker 1: someone who's trying to make a very academic argument to

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Speaker 1: let's say that the president, like I wouldn't go to

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Speaker 1: the president and say the Earth goddesses compel us to

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Speaker 1: do this. So that's sort of one of the big

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Speaker 1: divides between uh some eco femnists. So in critiquing this

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Speaker 1: spiritual aspect that sometimes attached to you eco feminism only now,

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Speaker 1: I came across an article by Joanie Seeger about the

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Speaker 1: coming age of feminist environmentalism, and it's very apparent that

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Speaker 1: Seeger prefers feminist environmentalism to eco feminism, specifically because she

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Speaker 1: says that eco feminism is a term is too much

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Speaker 1: of a dual signifier, essentially tries to do too much

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Speaker 1: at one time, trying to be an environmental movement of

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Speaker 1: feminist driven by feminist ideals, but also this you know,

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Speaker 1: spiritual movement as well, because regardless of whether you choose

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Speaker 1: to identify yourself as a female environment a feminist environmentalist

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Speaker 1: as see Or does, or as an eco feminist, you

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Speaker 1: have the same goals. So I think that Seer is

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Speaker 1: making a pretty interesting point of eco feminism has too

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Speaker 1: much baggage attached to it, and that's an argument we

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Speaker 1: hear about regular feminism. Sure, your word is just too loaded.

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Speaker 1: Let's get rid of it. Because what we're after, what

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Speaker 1: eco feminist or feminist environmentalists or after are addressing issues

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Speaker 1: like water pollution, deforestation, toxic waste dumping, agricultural development, sustainability,

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Speaker 1: animal rights, nuclear weapons policies, all these things that we

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Speaker 1: we have a steak and we have interest in. And

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Speaker 1: you know, Chris and I were talking about it. We

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Speaker 1: have steaks in these as human beings. Do we need

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Speaker 1: to have additional steaks in these causes as feminists? And

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that eco feminism took off when it

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Speaker 1: did in the mid nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties

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Speaker 1: because there were different environmental movements sprouting up across the world. Actually, um,

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Speaker 1: there's an eco feminist movement in Kenya around that time

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Speaker 1: called the green Belt movement that really just started as

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Speaker 1: a local community tree planting effort, and it was a

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Speaker 1: group of local women who were wanting to address the

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Speaker 1: lack of um local water and the effects of soil

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Speaker 1: erosion and all of the problems caused by deforestation. And

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Speaker 1: so they got together and started um planting trees on

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Speaker 1: a on a large scale effort to replace those um

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Speaker 1: the ones that have been removed. And then over in

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Speaker 1: the United States in nineteen we have the Love Canal

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Speaker 1: disaster in Upstate New York, in which a chemical landfill

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Speaker 1: site leaked into a neighborhood and there were all of

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Speaker 1: these chronic illnesses and um, there's certain health ripple effects

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Speaker 1: that came up as a result of it. And let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the chip Cope movement, which has often heraldled,

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Speaker 1: heralded as the you know, defining moment of eco feminism,

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Speaker 1: because what was happening. This is in the Himalayas of

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Speaker 1: northern India and the government is allowing more and more

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Speaker 1: companies to come into the forest there and tape trees,

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Speaker 1: like I think one of the big companies was a

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Speaker 1: sports equipment company was going to come in and make

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Speaker 1: tennis rackets out of the trees. But when they cut

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Speaker 1: the trees down, then there will be landslides, flooding, soil erosion.

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Speaker 1: And this affected the women. And this is you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the arguments is that because these environmental disasters

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Speaker 1: affect women in their roles as gathering water, cooking, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: that that's why women have a special interest in this.

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Speaker 1: But what they did is they managed to, you know,

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Speaker 1: get all the women to go together to the trees

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Speaker 1: that were remaining when they heard someone's going to come

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Speaker 1: in and cut them down. And they put their arms

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Speaker 1: around the tree to hug them, tree hugging so that

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Speaker 1: the people couldn't cut down the tree. And chip co

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Speaker 1: means to cling in Hindi. So that's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: by by standing up, the standing, by standing between the

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Speaker 1: saw and the tree, these women managed to save the trees. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I had no idea that this concept of tree huggers,

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Speaker 1: if you will, really started in the Himalayas of northern

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Speaker 1: India by a group of women, by a group of women.

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Speaker 1: And they're saying that this is significant in terms of

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Speaker 1: eco feminism because they went to the entire villages and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we need you all to come out and

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Speaker 1: hug the trees because people are going to cut them down.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be bad for our little village. And it

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Speaker 1: was only the women who responded. It was only by

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Speaker 1: making that appeal to women that you know, there will

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Speaker 1: be a landslide in your home, will be flooded if

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Speaker 1: we don't do this, that women were able to see

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Speaker 1: the importance of the effort. And in these more rural areas, UH,

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Speaker 1: eco feminism and eco feminist movements like chip CO make

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense because women are really the primary

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Speaker 1: stakeholders in terms of going out and needing to gather

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Speaker 1: wood for fire, or get fresh water for cooking, or

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Speaker 1: you know, getting all of these things they need to

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Speaker 1: take care of their homes. And I feel like once

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Speaker 1: you translate that to Western culture, it becomes a little

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Speaker 1: bit more diluted, in a little bit more um condescending

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the

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Speaker 1: problem that you mentioned earlier, Christen, is that if we're

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Speaker 1: all walking around as these big earth mamas, that that

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Speaker 1: is sort of what second way feminists were trying to

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Speaker 1: get us away from, because it could be a person's

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Speaker 1: entire job just to be a mother and then or

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Speaker 1: to be an environmentalist, and it doesn't limit them to

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Speaker 1: put this label on them. So it's it can get tricky.

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Speaker 1: And you know, also where we're doing the most polluting

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Speaker 1: ore in the western countries. So these um, these more

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Speaker 1: village oriented communities, they say, are not doing the extent

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Speaker 1: of damage that we're doing in terms in you know,

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Speaker 1: in our part of the world. Well, it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: just thinking about it now and in terms of the

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Speaker 1: this idea that women are not doing as much environmental

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Speaker 1: damage as men, like the patriarch, etcetera, is the it's

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Speaker 1: the cause of all this environmental destruction. Whereas in you know,

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Speaker 1: in the United States, women are generally in control of

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Speaker 1: what something like eight of household consumer purchases. So while yes,

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Speaker 1: we we have the power to lead a movement, but

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Speaker 1: the same time, over the years, we have been in

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Speaker 1: charge of household budgets and have certainly been contributing our

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Speaker 1: fair share to environmental destruction as well. So I think

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Speaker 1: that before we start, you know, going going all gaia

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Speaker 1: on everybody, you know, not to be not to be

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Speaker 1: condescending about it, but I think it's you know, that

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Speaker 1: we have to examine our own actions first. I think

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Speaker 1: that's very true, and that's probably one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why that word oppression just rubbed us the wrong way,

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Speaker 1: because it does seem that when you're reading a lot

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Speaker 1: of eco feminist tracks, that there is this tendency to

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Speaker 1: want to blame the patriarchy for all of the world's

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Speaker 1: problems and it removes any any sort of responsibility from

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Speaker 1: our shoulders. But if you know, as long as you

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Speaker 1: just say that you're oppressed and you're a victim, then

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Speaker 1: then you aren't, you know, it removes the notion that

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Speaker 1: you could have contributed anything to it exactly. So to me,

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Speaker 1: the question, Kristen and I don't know the answer. This

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Speaker 1: is what we'll need the input from our listeners to

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Speaker 1: to think on. Is if we are you know, refusing

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Speaker 1: this victim role but we still have a care we

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Speaker 1: still have a lot of concerns about the environment. Is

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Speaker 1: it more helpful to view environmental problems through a feminist

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Speaker 1: lens or are the two just unrelated it entirely and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just complicating the issue. So, in other words,

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Speaker 1: do you think eco feminism is necessary? Like humally, I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer either. So let's turn it over

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Speaker 1: to our very wise listeners and see what they think, because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, it's you know, we don't

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Speaker 1: want to um come down on this term, and we

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Speaker 1: certainly don't want to come down on environmentalism or on feminism.

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Speaker 1: I like both questions. Yeah, but do you need to

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Speaker 1: you know, smash them both together? Are they are the

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Speaker 1: two joined too much? Exactly? And that's what we want

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on, mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: And in the meantime, let's read some people who have

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Speaker 1: already written into that very same email address. I have

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Speaker 1: one from Lydia about the peak Host podcast, and I

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Speaker 1: will say that one of our sources said you could

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Speaker 1: say it peak host. Other people are very adamant that

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Speaker 1: it's PCOS. I say, you call it whatever you want to.

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Speaker 1: I think people will get will get the picture. And uh.

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Speaker 1: Lydia shares a few points here about what you should

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Speaker 1: do if you get a diagnosis or suspect you have it.

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Speaker 1: She writes, if you suspect you have PECOS, the first

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Speaker 1: step of you goat would be to go to a

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Speaker 1: gynecologist and tell her of your suspicions. If you feel

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Speaker 1: you aren't getting adequate care or she just misses, you

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Speaker 1: see a reproductive endocrinologist, even if you aren't trying to

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Speaker 1: get pregnant. Arise are fertility specialists and generally very knowledgeable

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Speaker 1: about PEKOS. I perplexed my O B G y N,

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Speaker 1: but was diagnosed in fifteen minutes by my ARI. And

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Speaker 1: then she says, and I think this is pretty important.

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Speaker 1: With lifestyle changes and good medical care, pekos is manageable.

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Speaker 1: Don't lose hope. Alright. I've got one here for about

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Speaker 1: our podcast on long distance relationships, and this is from Brianna,

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Speaker 1: And for a little background, Brianna has been in two

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Speaker 1: l drs in her life and she her first one

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Speaker 1: was with a guy in England that she met on

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Speaker 1: the line and they ended up getting engaged, then she

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Speaker 1: broke things off. But this is what she has to say.

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Speaker 1: For me, there is nothing more revealing than text. You're

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Speaker 1: forced to truly think about what you were saying, and

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Speaker 1: honesty seems to prevail. Also, misunderstandings are typically addressed straight away.

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Speaker 1: All in all, we were together for two years and

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Speaker 1: all other relationships until my current one paled in comparison.

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Speaker 1: After having quote unquote normal relationships. Following that one, I

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Speaker 1: concluded that you can feel more distant from a person

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Speaker 1: sitting next to you than a person ocean away. It's

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Speaker 1: an investment, and when you choose to enter an LDR,

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Speaker 1: both parties realized that it's a serious undertaking of great

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Speaker 1: import the constant nurture required to sustain it can actually

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Speaker 1: be a very rewarding experience rather than an exhaustive one. So,

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Speaker 1: after years of normal relationships, and met another fellow online,

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Speaker 1: this time for me, even then farther away, I knew

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Speaker 1: what I would be in for I knew the difficulty

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Speaker 1: it would entail, but I also need the lavish rewards

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Speaker 1: that were to be reaped. Although it's painful to be

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Speaker 1: a part and makes one realize the amazing value of

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Speaker 1: the smallest details of being with someone that others take

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Speaker 1: for granted. Hearing the person you love so dearly's heartbeat

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Speaker 1: for the very first time is an experience us of share,

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Speaker 1: bliss and gratitude. So thank you, Brianna, and again, if

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Speaker 1: you guys want to send us an email, It's mom

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Speaker 1: stuff and how stuff works dot Com. Hit us up

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Speaker 1: on Facebook as well and share your thoughts with other listeners.

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Speaker 1: Follow us on Twitter if you like, and Leslie, you

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Speaker 1: can head over to our blog during the week It's

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Speaker 1: stuff I Ever told you, and you can find it

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Speaker 1: along with how eco feminism works at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

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Speaker 1: Because at how stuff works dot com. Want more how

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Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff

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