Speaker 1: Pushkin. Janelle Mona's had a lot to smile about this
Speaker 1: year after a run of successful albums over the last decade,
Speaker 1: and June she released her fourth album, The Age of Pleasure.
Speaker 1: It's an important project. Not only was it just nominated
Speaker 1: for two Grammys, including the Album of the Year, but
Speaker 1: it's also signaled a big tone shift for Janelle, whose
Speaker 1: past albums have centered in part around a recurring character
Speaker 1: named Cindy Mayweather, an android who represents society's new other. Esthetically,
Speaker 1: Janelle has also always been pretty buttoned up. For her
Speaker 1: first few album releases, she made a point of always
Speaker 1: appearing in public in some iteration of a tuxedo. But
Speaker 1: for the Age of Pleasure, she literally stripped down to
Speaker 1: almost nothing, flanting a newfound freedom centered around black joy, pleasure,
Speaker 1: and acceptance. On today's episode on Poolside, having a conversation
Speaker 1: with Jenemo and her longtime musical partner Nate Wonder, who
Speaker 1: also co produced and co wrote this new record along
Speaker 1: with her others, We're after a creative home base in
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Hills called Wonderland. Nate explains how the Age
Speaker 1: of Pleasure album started with the simple conceit of wanting
Speaker 1: to make Janelle Monet smile. Jane also talks about why
Speaker 1: she decided to ditch your career in musical theater after
Speaker 1: college and how the Grace Jones ended up topless in
Speaker 1: Wonderland's now infamous pool. This is broken record liner notes
Speaker 1: for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation
Speaker 1: with Nate Wonder and Janelle Monette. Happy birthday, Thank you
Speaker 1: Rammy nomination.
Speaker 2: Yes, album of the Year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like two in a row.
Speaker 2: Now, I know that's a big deal. I know it's
Speaker 2: a big deal.
Speaker 3: I'm still just so humbled, very big.
Speaker 1: Not just progressive R and B album, but like album
Speaker 1: of the year, Like that's some crazy.
Speaker 2: That's wild.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I watched a lot of my here get it and
Speaker 4: be on that stage, and like it's really a dream
Speaker 4: to be able to not just shine light on the
Speaker 4: work that I do. But you know, Nate's here as well.
Speaker 4: He worked heavily on the music and production and writing
Speaker 4: with me and everybody else who you know was a
Speaker 4: part of the album. They get recognized too. So that's
Speaker 4: the beautiful thing about being in that category.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, Yeah. I wanted to ask about the
Speaker 1: collaborative since I have the pleasure of both of you guys,
Speaker 1: which is it feels special to me. So I was
Speaker 1: curious about how you guys collaborate on it. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys been working together a long time.
Speaker 4: First of all, every project, every album since my EPs,
Speaker 4: where I was selling them out of the trunk of
Speaker 4: my car in Atlanta. We've been able to have, you know,
Speaker 4: a creative bond and just like evolution together and it's
Speaker 4: just been really a fun ride. Lots of fun things
Speaker 4: happen in the studio. It feels like family, it feels intentional.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Where were you both at when you guys first met
Speaker 1: in Atlanta?
Speaker 2: We met at Morehouse Janelle was she was living like
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 4: Area, Parson Street, Yeah, boarding house next to Club Woody
Speaker 4: in auc Club Woody is.
Speaker 2: The name of the library.
Speaker 5: Okay, you go there though, because it's in the middle
Speaker 5: of all three campuses, it's kind of like a club.
Speaker 1: You never know in Atlanta what that could be exactly.
Speaker 5: It's actually actually the university library. And she would throw
Speaker 5: shows on the steps. And I was just out of college.
Speaker 5: I had lost my scholarship in my junior year of
Speaker 5: college because I was writing music, And so after I graduated,
Speaker 5: like I could really take the time to focus on
Speaker 5: my music the way I wanted to.
Speaker 1: So in college you knew that like music was where
Speaker 1: you were focused, That's where your attention was.
Speaker 3: But why did you lose it? What happened?
Speaker 4: You need to tell him exactly a moment that will
Speaker 4: let you know how serious you.
Speaker 5: I mean, I had I had two full scholarships to school,
Speaker 5: and I lost both of them because I.
Speaker 1: How do you have to how do you get two.
Speaker 5: NASA gave me a scholarship and the school gave me
Speaker 5: a scholarship separately, and I just had both of them.
Speaker 2: I had one like as a backup, I guess idea.
Speaker 5: But I was in a math test and I was
Speaker 5: doing well on the test except for like in the
Speaker 5: middle of the test, I had this song come to
Speaker 5: me and I just felt compelled to get up, and
Speaker 5: I went to my dorm room and I wrote the
Speaker 5: song and I did not finish the test, and it
Speaker 5: caused my GPA to crater.
Speaker 2: And that's why I lost my scholarship.
Speaker 3: Yay was that And that's how we got to make music.
Speaker 1: I mean, thank god he lost his NaSTA and scholarship.
Speaker 1: I mean, in any other scenario, that's a tragedy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it seems to have been the right path.
Speaker 5: It tragic at the time too. After I realized that happened.
Speaker 5: In the moment, it felt like, this is what you're
Speaker 5: supposed to be doing. You need to just listen to this.
Speaker 1: Was that common for you to just up and leave
Speaker 1: whatever you were doing, wherever you were at, whoever you
Speaker 1: were with, YO, get an idea.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but not a test. It had not happened like
Speaker 5: that was something that cost me so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the movie of your life was a pretty
Speaker 1: high stake, you know.
Speaker 5: What I mean, it was, and it felt like a
Speaker 5: big mistake afterwards. For a little while, it felt like, wow,
Speaker 5: that was crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. My dad was like, you're crazy. You absolutely
Speaker 2: lost your mind.
Speaker 1: Were your parents academically folks, like, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know how you get a scholarship.
Speaker 2: My dad has a doctorate in music.
Speaker 5: Actually, wow, And he wasn't active in music in that
Speaker 5: kind of way.
Speaker 2: He's a professor, so he's yes, he's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you grew up with a lot of theory and things.
Speaker 5: I grew up watching him write music composed and like
Speaker 5: he was writing operas and all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 5: and like, so I saw that growing up, and I
Speaker 5: learned a lot of instruments kind of I got introduced
Speaker 5: to a lot of instruments early on, and I got
Speaker 5: introduced to the idea of composition very early.
Speaker 2: But he was not. He was like that it is dumb,
Speaker 2: just so we could be clear, that's dumb.
Speaker 1: Did you know him at the time.
Speaker 3: I didn't know. You didn't know each other.
Speaker 4: That was you know, I met him after he probably
Speaker 4: did some healing from the traumatic experience of losing your scholarships.
Speaker 2: I learned how to focus. That's what I learned from that.
Speaker 5: I always hold that as like a lesson in focus
Speaker 5: what it takes.
Speaker 1: Focus on the thing at hand, or focus on the
Speaker 1: creativity that's taking away.
Speaker 5: Actually, you know, you know it's interesting, like it's just
Speaker 5: pick something and do that thing. So the idea of
Speaker 5: the multitasking and all that kind of stuff, I understood
Speaker 5: how detrimental that could be to whatever the dream that
Speaker 5: I had was. So if it was music, like I
Speaker 5: know that, Like the feeling I had when I was
Speaker 5: in the class asked, was, hey, you're not pursuing the
Speaker 5: thing that you're supposed to be pursuing right now, and
Speaker 5: you are going to feel sick about that at some
Speaker 5: point in time. Right now, you feel sick, so you
Speaker 5: need to go write that song. Later on, I felt like, okay,
Speaker 5: I but I made a commitment and so you know,
Speaker 5: it's about just commitment, focus not being distracted. And when
Speaker 5: I finished college, I was like, Okay, now I'm going
Speaker 5: to focus and I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: You did finish, yes, and you paid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to pay my last year.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Hey, last year, I got a scholarship for part of it.
Speaker 2: I got a scholarship to go live in Spain, so
Speaker 2: they paid me to go.
Speaker 5: I did get another scholarship too, smart man, But I.
Speaker 3: And tell them what you know what?
Speaker 4: Tell them what you got that scholarship in Spanish, which
Speaker 4: I suck it. I failed Spanish high.
Speaker 1: School year, but major Spanish class.
Speaker 3: Major in Spanish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you study any music Spanish music while you
Speaker 1: were in Spain?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: I studied Spanish art and architecture actually, And so when
Speaker 5: I went to Spain, I was like, let me not
Speaker 5: pursue music right now, let me focus. I'm not going
Speaker 5: to bring any of my instruments, like I would never
Speaker 5: not have a guitar in my hand. And so I
Speaker 5: was like, I'm going to go to Spain. I'm not
Speaker 5: going to have any instruments. I'm going to focus and
Speaker 5: I'm going to just do what I'm here to do.
Speaker 5: And I went there, and what was crazy is that
Speaker 5: the place that I lived was directly next to a
Speaker 5: music conservatory. So I would wake up and this girl
Speaker 5: would play the flute every morning. It would wake me
Speaker 5: up every morning. I would hear musicians playing all day,
Speaker 5: and I was like, man, I got so I was there.
Speaker 5: I bought a flute and like taught myself to play
Speaker 5: the flute, but that was it. I was like, let
Speaker 5: me just that's small enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's more of a hobby than a real pstick pursuit. Similarly,
Speaker 1: you early on were kind of like possessed by creativity, right,
Speaker 1: I like that possessed.
Speaker 4: Yes, there was never a time where I wasn't singing.
Speaker 4: I don't remember like singing, acting, partying, doing exactly what
Speaker 4: it is that I'm doing. I was talking to a
Speaker 4: friend and she reminded me, she was like, remember in
Speaker 4: sixth grade when we used to throw these parties and
Speaker 4: you would charge a dollar for people to get in,
Speaker 4: and I skipped school to hand out flyers.
Speaker 3: It was a whole thing.
Speaker 4: But at that same time, I was on every talent
Speaker 4: show stage in Kansas City, in every musical theater production.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's morphed into concerts now and the
Speaker 4: age of pleasure album and being driven by by just
Speaker 4: the things that I love. I'm so thankful that I
Speaker 4: still can do that. And for me when I went
Speaker 4: to school in New York after you know, after high school,
Speaker 4: went to school in New York, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 4: I want to do musical theater. As soon as I
Speaker 4: got out there and started going to sea plays and stuff,
Speaker 4: I was like, man, ugh, I'm not excited about any
Speaker 4: of the roles that they're offering.
Speaker 3: You know, people that look like me.
Speaker 1: What were you What kind of roles were you getting?
Speaker 4: Well, we couldn't really audition, but like there was no
Speaker 4: there was maybe one strong black woman leading something there
Speaker 4: was not right now, Broadway has changed, like it' it's
Speaker 4: it's a lot more diverse, a lot more stories, a
Speaker 4: lot more uniqueness. And the only thing, because I'm from Kansas,
Speaker 4: the only thing I think people saw me doing was
Speaker 4: the Whiz, and the Whiz wasn't on Broadway, and I'm
Speaker 4: just like, I love the Whiz, but where is the
Speaker 4: new energy, the new stories? And I had so much
Speaker 4: bubbling because I'm a writer as well, and I decided that,
Speaker 4: you know, I was going to quit. So I quit
Speaker 4: school in New York. Everybody thought I was crazy too.
Speaker 4: That was my like you're crazy moment, because coming from Kansas,
Speaker 4: such a small town, They're like.
Speaker 3: Wow, You're in New York. You're living the dream.
Speaker 4: And little do they know, I was sleeping in the
Speaker 4: same bed as my cousin because I could not afford
Speaker 4: housing there, and so I was commuting from like a
Speaker 4: hundred and forty of an Amsterdam the like seventy second
Speaker 4: and Broadway every single day, Monday through Friday. Wow, I mean,
Speaker 4: I learned a lot about surviving. And I was just like,
Speaker 4: you know, poor, but excited about the arts and excited
Speaker 4: about finally figuring out what did Janelle Robinson have to say?
Speaker 4: Because I wasn't even going by Janelle mone I had
Speaker 4: not tapped into the center the core of what I
Speaker 4: had to say because I was spending so much time
Speaker 4: singing everybody else's songs.
Speaker 1: Why the transition of Janell Moe then from Janelle Robinson.
Speaker 1: What about that felt more like the authentic place to
Speaker 1: create farm.
Speaker 4: Well, I knew about the painter mone and I always
Speaker 4: thought like, that's that's a great artist name, and it
Speaker 4: just so happens to be my real name. My middle
Speaker 4: name is none. My aunt actually she was like Janelle Monet,
Speaker 4: Janelle Monee. She calls me that all the time, like
Speaker 4: when she sees me, and it just it sucks.
Speaker 1: Even before, so it wasn't like I was a kid
Speaker 1: like your family and where you come from, none.
Speaker 4: Of I just thought Monnette felt like an artist's name
Speaker 4: and it was my name, and it was like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: I get to reinvent you know who, what I can be,
Speaker 4: how I can say it, how I see myself.
Speaker 3: And it was so great.
Speaker 4: So that's when I moved to Atlanta, and that's when
Speaker 4: I met Nate Rocket Wonder, I met Chuck Lightning, I
Speaker 4: met Michael Moore, who were all still working together. They
Speaker 4: were at Morehouse. They ran this arts collective called the
Speaker 4: Dark Tower Project, and they would bring musicians, poets to
Speaker 4: Morehouse and I was one of the people who performed
Speaker 4: that night, and I just saw this kind of black
Speaker 4: cosmopolitan in Atlanta, Like it was just this melting pot
Speaker 4: of just excellence and creativity and freedom of expression. I
Speaker 4: had never seen anything like it, and I wanted to
Speaker 4: be around that, and I wanted to make music for them.
Speaker 4: That's who I wanted to make music for. And so
Speaker 4: when I started to write, I would sit out, like
Speaker 4: Nate was saying, I would sit on the library steps
Speaker 4: of Club Woody and I would just play guitar, sing
Speaker 4: my songs. People will walk by, some would stop and listen,
Speaker 4: some would keep moving.
Speaker 3: I would go to dorm lounge.
Speaker 4: And sit on the couch and give before like to
Speaker 4: anybody that would listen. I was, I was like, I
Speaker 4: don't give a damn. I have to know.
Speaker 3: Is this for me?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Like, do you guys like what I have to say?
Speaker 4: Like can I make my purpose and passion and also
Speaker 4: career aligne.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a scary time because you don't you don't
Speaker 1: really know that. And we have the confidence to not
Speaker 1: necessarily care, but you don't at times don't really know.
Speaker 1: You don't know.
Speaker 5: Like one of the reasons why we really connected was because,
Speaker 5: like I know it sounds very basic, but.
Speaker 2: We love art.
Speaker 5: And I think that we were inspired by meeting other
Speaker 5: people who loved art, like really would just like fall
Speaker 5: in love.
Speaker 2: With art, you know, just be obsessed over it.
Speaker 5: Just sit up all day and think about something that
Speaker 5: they read or a painting that they.
Speaker 2: Saw, or just a song, just sit and cry to
Speaker 2: a song. And just like.
Speaker 5: I know that Janelle and I have a very spiritual
Speaker 5: connection that music, it really is like the catalyst for
Speaker 5: that and it catalyzes it all the time. It's something
Speaker 5: that I know that we can always tap into. Like
Speaker 5: besides being like good thought partners and like you know,
Speaker 5: there are wonderful myriad things about Janelle that make her
Speaker 5: a great like human being. But on a musical level,
Speaker 5: she is very passionate about music, Like if I play
Speaker 5: certain chords, it can make her cry. And that is
Speaker 5: something that also happens to me, Like I can hear
Speaker 5: certain songs certain chords, and it doesn't have to do
Speaker 5: it necessarily the lyrics. Always sometimes the lyrics, yes, and
Speaker 5: poetry is beautiful and that's another you know, but just
Speaker 5: like music and just being really just emotionally brought to
Speaker 5: your knee ease over how good music can be. And
Speaker 5: we've shared so many of those moments, and that was
Speaker 5: like the beginning of that time where we got to
Speaker 5: really just pass music back and forth and be shocked
Speaker 5: and just sit in awe with.
Speaker 2: Each other as we would just listen to what could
Speaker 2: be done.
Speaker 4: I think one of the things that I loved early on,
Speaker 4: and the reason why I think we've worked so well
Speaker 4: together musically, is because Nate is a student of music,
Speaker 4: and so when it comes to like anything that I
Speaker 4: want to do, there's nothing we can't do, from string
Speaker 4: arrangements to core progressions, horn arrangements, melodies, Like there's no genre.
Speaker 4: We've been genres with each album. You know, it's all
Speaker 4: about how do we create our own musical language.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 4: I always have to feel pushed and stretched, and I
Speaker 4: think that's what is the exciting thing, because it's like
Speaker 4: we literally have the the mind and the student heart,
Speaker 4: Like we never stop.
Speaker 1: Being student, always at the beginning.
Speaker 4: Always it's always a new whiteboard, you know, the ideas
Speaker 4: ready to be put down.
Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you guys are just always
Speaker 1: creating things, regardless of like there's an album, dude, or
Speaker 1: you know, or it's been a minute or you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, it's just that's how you guys are inhabiting life.
Speaker 1: It's just creating every day or you know, the days
Speaker 1: that it feels right to do. Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I didn't get into music because of
Speaker 4: awards or because of you know, recognition or anything like that.
Speaker 4: Music is truly healing. I need music like I need
Speaker 4: a song in my darkest hours. I need a song
Speaker 4: in my most celebratory stage. I need a song when
Speaker 4: you know, I want to communicate something that my own
Speaker 4: words can't say, and I need to be able to
Speaker 4: write when I'm feeling frustrated or when I'm like it's
Speaker 4: a way. It has helped my mental health so much, Yeah,
Speaker 4: so much.
Speaker 1: You know, when I was listening again for like the
Speaker 1: umpteenth time this morning on a wat to the Age
Speaker 1: of Pleasure, I was wondering listening to it, it might
Speaker 1: be a possible question to answer, but whether these songs
Speaker 1: were for you or for other people, because I in
Speaker 1: a way I've realized as I've been listening to it,
Speaker 1: I've been taking it as like you giving mantras to me.
Speaker 1: I love that, but it occurred to me to the
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe you needed to write this for you too,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how you were approaching.
Speaker 3: That, but it's for all of us.
Speaker 4: It's for us, and that means a lot to hear
Speaker 4: you say that, because I think one of the most
Speaker 4: important things as an artist is your ability to communicate.
Speaker 4: And as much as I can, you know, say like, oh,
Speaker 4: I just want to do an album and I want
Speaker 4: this just for myself and I me to listen to it.
Speaker 4: That's not my truth. I actually want everybody to feel
Speaker 4: like this is their soundtrack to their life. This is
Speaker 4: curating their thoughts and their feelings. They are part of
Speaker 4: my community. We're a part of each other's community, and
Speaker 4: all of us are growing and healing and moving together
Speaker 4: and sharing something that they can tap into anytime they
Speaker 4: want to. And it's funny because you're here. This is
Speaker 4: exactly what inspired the album, this space, having this space
Speaker 4: filled with black and brown and you know, just beautiful
Speaker 4: people across the diaspora here, seeing them smiling, seeing the
Speaker 4: joy and their spirits and their hearts. During the time
Speaker 4: where everybody thought the world was ending, I mean every dayandemic.
Speaker 4: We created Wonderland West during the pandemic. It was one
Speaker 4: of the most scary things ever because I grew up
Speaker 4: my parents didn't own a home. We were either in
Speaker 4: like a duplex or you know, we live with my
Speaker 4: grandmother and they were working class, like making ends meet,
Speaker 4: but live in check to check. So when it was
Speaker 4: time for all of us to contribute and figure out
Speaker 4: where we were going to migrate with Wonderland, it was like, okay,
Speaker 4: are we ready to all? Am I ready to invest
Speaker 4: in our next creative endeavor?
Speaker 3: Yes? I am, But we're in the middle of a pandemic.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 4: And luckily we knew the person who was trying to
Speaker 4: sell the space, and they were just like, there's nobody
Speaker 4: else I want to have this space.
Speaker 3: And it worked out and it came right to you. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it did.
Speaker 4: But it was also scary because a lot of things
Speaker 4: were being canceled For me. My job is to go
Speaker 4: out into the world and travel and you know, try
Speaker 4: to heal people through music.
Speaker 3: But I couldn't do that.
Speaker 1: So you come from growing up a certain amount of insecurity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, the successful career you've had, it's
Speaker 1: hard to imagine that. But you know, as soon as
Speaker 1: you start to feel that a little bit insecurity again.
Speaker 1: I know from my own life, like all of a sudden, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, where was your mind that?
Speaker 2: With all of that, I.
Speaker 4: Think the pandemic reminded me just how much music means
Speaker 4: to me as a person, not as a career path,
Speaker 4: not as you know, the artists that people know and
Speaker 4: come to the concerts and see, but as a human
Speaker 4: android having this Earth experience.
Speaker 3: I need music. I need to create.
Speaker 4: During that time, not only were we working on music,
Speaker 4: but I also wrote a book called The Memory Librarian.
Speaker 4: I was just doing anything creative that would would help
Speaker 4: me feel better, because to go from moving around so
Speaker 4: much to just being still it was tough.
Speaker 3: It was tough for me. How was it for you, Nate?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: You know, art has this weird responsibility of trying to
Speaker 5: document and explain the human experience a little bit more
Speaker 5: and kind of just like on Earth, a little bit
Speaker 5: more about what it means to be human. And I
Speaker 5: think that so many of us were finding out a
Speaker 5: lot more about what it meant to be human, Yeah,
Speaker 5: like a lot about the mortality of it, even though
Speaker 5: we weren't necessarily in or didn't consider ourselves vulnerable in
Speaker 5: that kind of way. I think a lot of us
Speaker 5: looked at ourselves as more vulnerable to death. And I
Speaker 5: think that that was a very real consideration that we
Speaker 5: all kind of had to deal with it differently. And
Speaker 5: I think that human experience is a very unique one
Speaker 5: that kind of felt like okay, so what is the
Speaker 5: response to that, and how do you talk about this
Speaker 5: in healthy ways? And how do you explore and understand
Speaker 5: more about it? So I think that like part of
Speaker 5: what we were trying to do was just face that
Speaker 5: in an honest way. When you talk about like the affirmations,
Speaker 5: I mean that was very intentional, because part of just
Speaker 5: confronting death is like being able to turn your head
Speaker 5: and be like not today, and then you kind of
Speaker 5: are like okay, so then what does that mean? And
Speaker 5: it's kind of like, okay, live and so then how
Speaker 5: do you live in a way that honors the life experience?
Speaker 5: And it's like, hey, okay, I'm here, I'm here now,
Speaker 5: you know. And you hear these stories about the Roaring
Speaker 5: twenties when people are kind of like getting through the depressions.
Speaker 5: It's so much going on and they're like you and
Speaker 5: they've made it through a pandemic, right, and you have
Speaker 5: the guilt and so much of that goes into just
Speaker 5: just your human experience, and it's those affirmations were like
Speaker 5: just the small attempts to just undergird just the everyday
Speaker 5: thing that's kind of like pushing you down and kind
Speaker 5: of be like, all right, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna get back up.
Speaker 5: You know when Janelle says like I used to walk
Speaker 5: into the room head down, you know, it's just that
Speaker 5: feeling of I used to walk into the room head
Speaker 5: down and being like that's I'm leaving that and now
Speaker 5: I'm onto this next stage of myself.
Speaker 4: I think in the I think it was a priva
Speaker 4: to be still because during that time, I mean, as
Speaker 4: we know, a lot of people were getting laid off
Speaker 4: from work, a lot of people were losing their families
Speaker 4: passing away. And as much as it was sad that
Speaker 4: I couldn't go and be the artist that I wanted
Speaker 4: to be out into the world, there were so many
Speaker 4: other people who had it worse than us. In that stillness,
Speaker 4: I said, well, what can I do. I know, we
Speaker 4: were in LA and we got the opportunity to feed
Speaker 4: and give out over thirty five thousand meals throughout Won
Speaker 4: to Lunch program, and so we did that for like months,
Speaker 4: and months and months, and I think that connectivity back
Speaker 4: to humanity really let us know what kind of affirmations
Speaker 4: are people needed and what I needed as well. And
Speaker 4: I think to answer your question, we were very intentional
Speaker 4: about that, and I think Float really kicked it off.
Speaker 3: Like I used to.
Speaker 4: Walk into the room head down out on walk Now
Speaker 4: if Float, I got an opportunity in that stillness to
Speaker 4: deal with childhood trauma that I had not help with
Speaker 4: that because because I was moving around so much, I didn't.
Speaker 4: It was like, Okay, you know something's not right, but
Speaker 4: I don't have time to deal with it. And in
Speaker 4: that discovering and peeling back the layers of the rejection
Speaker 4: and abandonment that I felt early on get into the
Speaker 4: root of it, my spirit started to get lighter because
Speaker 4: I knew. I was like, oh, okay, so I can
Speaker 4: become better and more evolved as a person now. And
Speaker 4: I feel so empowered now that I know.
Speaker 3: What was going on with me.
Speaker 4: And when you heal as a as a person, all
Speaker 4: of that seeks into your music and your art. My
Speaker 4: art is a reflection of who I am, and I'm
Speaker 4: so thankful for that, because all I wanted to do
Speaker 4: was give more people affirmations because I know I wouldn't
Speaker 4: only want When I would have conversations with people, they
Speaker 4: would say the same thing, like, man, I have to
Speaker 4: let go of this. I have to let go of that,
Speaker 4: you know, And so float was that thing. It was
Speaker 4: like once you let go of the heaviness that you've
Speaker 4: been carrying on your back that you didn't didn't have
Speaker 4: to carry, and you just find you're finding out like, oh,
Speaker 4: I have a way to get all of this off
Speaker 4: of me now. It felt like I wanted to celebrate
Speaker 4: as a new person, like I feel like I definitely,
Speaker 4: you know, shed a lot of skin, turned a new leaf.
Speaker 4: And obviously it's a constant, you know, journey, But once
Speaker 4: I tapped into it, I got really inspired to write
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 1: After a quick break, we'll come back with more of
Speaker 1: my conversation with Jennel Monet and Nate Wonder. We're back
Speaker 1: with Jennel mone and Nate Wonder. Once you put the
Speaker 1: album out, how did you guys feel about the response
Speaker 1: to it. You know, obviously we're very vulnerable, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that was like a big point of conversation
Speaker 1: around that. But was it Sometimes you do things feeling
Speaker 1: like that's the right thing to do, and then it's like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I got to talk about this, Like how
Speaker 1: was the process of going out and talking about the
Speaker 1: album and getting people's responses to the project?
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's a beautiful thing that when
Speaker 4: people see themselves reflected, that was the most beautiful thing.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people coming up to me,
Speaker 4: some of them whispering, some of them more vocal about it,
Speaker 4: like thank you so much, you know, for sharing more
Speaker 4: of who you are. There's this quote by betha and
Speaker 4: Hardest and this as you know, people don't change that
Speaker 4: become more of who they are. And what I got
Speaker 4: an opportunity to do is become more of who I
Speaker 4: am and write about it and write about it with
Speaker 4: other people who were discovering more about who they were
Speaker 4: and us having a safe space that was really important.
Speaker 4: I think with an album called The Age of Pleasure,
Speaker 4: there is no pleasure without safety. When we don't feel
Speaker 4: safe and taking care of you cannot be free in
Speaker 4: the way that you move or express yourselves.
Speaker 1: At least from me to your point earlier about unpacking
Speaker 1: a lot of the dramas and stuff, just feeling safe
Speaker 1: within yourself too exactly, you know what I mean exactly.
Speaker 4: I feel a lot more. Mmm, how do I put it?
Speaker 4: I did put it. I see a float. I feel
Speaker 4: like I've like floated in anything that used to bother me.
Speaker 4: It doesn't touch me to say. It's kind of scary
Speaker 4: and also really really awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how was it writing on this record with Janelle?
Speaker 1: With given the just the way the songs were coming out,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: A real blessing.
Speaker 5: Before we started working on that album, I remember I
Speaker 5: told my management team that I really wanted to focus
Speaker 5: this time that I have right now on making music
Speaker 5: for black women and black non binary folks. I want
Speaker 5: to make music that makes them smile, Like, I want
Speaker 5: to make music for them specifically, like I really just
Speaker 5: want to be of service to that community. And there's
Speaker 5: so many reasons why. But one reason is because when
Speaker 5: I go to the grocery store as like a little
Speaker 5: side I.
Speaker 2: Do it. I love it.
Speaker 3: This is great.
Speaker 4: I love it because I do not like going used
Speaker 4: to have me in the grocery store way too long.
Speaker 4: It's like I'm ready to go home.
Speaker 5: So anyway, but when I would go and I see
Speaker 5: like black women at the grocery store smiling.
Speaker 2: It just makes me feel a certain way.
Speaker 5: And sometimes it'll be like when a certain song would
Speaker 5: come on, it would be like you see them singing
Speaker 5: their song and it's like, man, so good. And Janelle,
Speaker 5: of course, has like done so much work as a
Speaker 5: leading voice in terms of activism, in terms of being
Speaker 5: on the right side of history, in terms of speaking
Speaker 5: up for marginalized people, early to early always it's been herself.
Speaker 5: But I also was thinking about how much that can
Speaker 5: weigh on a person, And I told you now, I said,
Speaker 5: I really like for your next time, I would really
Speaker 5: love I would love to see you smile more like
Speaker 5: I would love to just see you smile, Like it
Speaker 5: really would mean so much. I think that you smiling
Speaker 5: is a really special thing. I love when I see
Speaker 5: you smile, and I would love to see what that
Speaker 5: energy is to like really put that into a space.
Speaker 4: And I hadn't really considered that. And I looked at
Speaker 4: all my album covers and I was like, I'm really
Speaker 4: not smiling.
Speaker 1: Kind of fuck with you for a second, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4: Like, what what is going on? Like from the Arcandroid
Speaker 4: to Electric Lady to Dirty Computer, And if you look
Speaker 4: at the cover for the Age of Pleasure. I am
Speaker 4: writing this pool swimming topless and smiling.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's a layered idea, but I do
Speaker 5: think that giving somebody something that makes them want to
Speaker 5: smile is its own resistance. It's its own protest, it's
Speaker 5: its own like giving people affirmations is its own version.
Speaker 5: It's a certain form of work, it's a certain type
Speaker 5: of healing.
Speaker 1: And so it's pleasure like yeah, you like it's like
Speaker 1: I want you to smile. It's like to your point
Speaker 1: then too, it's like only I smile, like I want
Speaker 1: top in this pool right and smiled, And it's like
Speaker 1: both of those things are can be subversive, can't be
Speaker 1: absolutely you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Absolutely it is to make an album called The Age
Speaker 5: of Pleasure in the middle of a pandemic is a
Speaker 5: subversive piece of art because it is just kind of
Speaker 5: being like, no, it's just like because there's been you know,
Speaker 5: when you're dealing with so much trauma from elections to
Speaker 5: it's so much that happens, and it feels like your
Speaker 5: energy when you wake up is going to be stolen
Speaker 5: from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it feels like, yeah, you're dolen, right, It's
Speaker 1: not yours.
Speaker 5: Exactly, and so it was like a big like, no,
Speaker 5: you cannot have all of my day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you cannot have all of my time.
Speaker 5: I'm going to take some time to enjoy life as
Speaker 5: best as I can under whatever the circumstances that I
Speaker 5: have are. I'm going to try my best to do
Speaker 5: what I can to appreciate this moment, as simple as
Speaker 5: it may be. And what I think that we were
Speaker 5: finding in the writing process was that just having time
Speaker 5: to hang out with your friends was the thing that
Speaker 5: we needed the most. Just seeking time to appreciate each other,
Speaker 5: to smile at each other, to laugh with each other,
Speaker 5: to do like the simple stuff with each other felt
Speaker 5: like this is like worth my time way more than
Speaker 5: whatever that other thing was that was driving me and
Speaker 5: decentering my joy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's what that stuff does, right, Like
Speaker 4: when you think about racism, when you think about sexism,
Speaker 4: when you think about homophobia, all of it. It literally,
Speaker 4: in addition to just being you know, pure evil work,
Speaker 4: it distracts you from living your life because you spend
Speaker 4: so much time fighting. And I definitely found myself and
Speaker 4: I know I'm not the only one. There were so
Speaker 4: many of my friends and people who were out marching.
Speaker 4: You know, you have to understand George Floyd had been murdered.
Speaker 4: It was so much. Breonna Taylor, it was so much.
Speaker 4: And I was working with say her name and I
Speaker 4: put out you know, protest music. It was so heavy, man,
Speaker 4: and I was like, somebody has to do the work.
Speaker 4: But I think balance is important, and what I was
Speaker 4: realizing is I was not getting the balance that I needed.
Speaker 4: And so once we made a decision to not center
Speaker 4: white supremacy, to not center you know, all all of
Speaker 4: the things that again come to distract and destroy and
Speaker 4: stop us from just living our lives as humans, having
Speaker 4: this earth experience and be clear and stand on that.
Speaker 4: That's when I feel like the songwriting got focused. And
Speaker 4: with this project, I said, I want to make music
Speaker 4: for that community, for that community of folks who suffer
Speaker 4: time poverty, Like they don't have time.
Speaker 1: It's a great phrase.
Speaker 4: It's a real thing in our community. People don't have
Speaker 4: the time or the leisure time to just be you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, to just be one with their
Speaker 4: friends or their families, because you spend so much time working,
Speaker 4: you spending so much time fighting, and it's like when
Speaker 4: do we say, Okay, well we're going to carve out
Speaker 4: this little space for us. And so I said, I
Speaker 4: want to create music that we can all listen to
Speaker 4: take with us whole with us. That is the balance
Speaker 4: in everything that we're dealing with. And if the people
Speaker 4: that I invite or are not dancing to these songs,
Speaker 4: if they are not moving, if they're not trying to shazam,
Speaker 4: if they're not asking who is that, then it's not working.
Speaker 4: It's not like I want them to really really really
Speaker 4: really love this music. Obviously we have to love it right,
Speaker 4: but it was so important that the community people we
Speaker 4: were writing.
Speaker 3: It for loved it.
Speaker 4: And that's how we put together the Age of Pleasure.
Speaker 4: We had Nona Quabina who worked on some of the music,
Speaker 4: who's also a DJ, and our friends with everyday people.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know about everyday people parties.
Speaker 1: I've not bet, but like I have to give a
Speaker 1: shout out Pleasure Science. I've been working hard.
Speaker 4: I have to give them a shout out because during
Speaker 4: the pandemic, they couldn't find a place, you know, to
Speaker 4: have their parties. And when I say parties, it's not
Speaker 4: just like I mean everybody's dancing and singing and having
Speaker 4: a good time, but people are feeding each other at
Speaker 4: the parties like their food vendors.
Speaker 3: It's the diaspora.
Speaker 4: It's Pan African is from around the globe from you know, Nigeria, Ghana,
Speaker 4: the Caribbeans, Jamaica, Atlanta, New York, LA and Cape verd
Speaker 4: like all in one place. It's just nothing like going
Speaker 4: to their parties. And so when they asked they had
Speaker 4: come by Wonderland, they were like, you know, they were
Speaker 4: having a hard time getting the space, and we were like,
Speaker 4: come here, shoot, let's figure it out because we're we're
Speaker 4: going through it too, like not being able to see people,
Speaker 4: like how can we do this?
Speaker 3: And that was a was it a bob?
Speaker 1: You had to know who was coming or okay, right?
Speaker 3: For sure?
Speaker 1: It was very small because I would be a little.
Speaker 3: Yeah it was. We needed to know.
Speaker 2: It was small and it was safe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, safe and small, And and that's where the music
Speaker 4: was tested first hearing all of the backstory.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it because I feel like it's
Speaker 1: even in the music, like a more human album. It's
Speaker 1: funny because as we're moving into an age now more
Speaker 1: the future looks a little bleaker in terms of technology.
Speaker 1: I feel like you might have called that a little early.
Speaker 1: And it feels like the project away from computer and
Speaker 1: arch Android and Metropolis and like this tomorrow it feels
Speaker 1: like Janelle the person you know, or it feels like
Speaker 1: to me listening to it, like I even just feel
Speaker 1: myself coming a lot more, just feeling more than me,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people who've listened to the record, a lot of friends,
Speaker 1: a lot of people. They're saying that like it makes
Speaker 1: them feel a particular way as a living creature, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, from the beginning, there was this conversation
Speaker 5: around android rights. Yeah, and Cindy was always being was
Speaker 5: always fighting to be perceived as a human and to
Speaker 5: be respected as a human. So I guess there's a
Speaker 5: certain truthfulness to being like, yeah, you're a human and
Speaker 5: kind of being like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, finally, I mean the definition of an android. And
Speaker 4: if you're listening and you don't know any of my work,
Speaker 4: it's rooted around Cindy May whether who represents the other
Speaker 4: and the other is a parallel, you know, the android
Speaker 4: is a parallel to black folks to you know, marginalize
Speaker 4: folks that I want to amplify, the voices I want
Speaker 4: to amplify and the music I want to write. The
Speaker 4: definition of an android is a robot developing human characteristics.
Speaker 4: So I really think it tells such a continuation of
Speaker 4: beautiful continuation of the story, and it's not finished. It's
Speaker 4: very trippy to see because when I put out Metropolis,
Speaker 4: we were reading The Singularity is near by Ray Kurzweil,
Speaker 4: and if you haven't read that, please do. But it
Speaker 4: talks about this moment that we're having with AI, and
Speaker 4: it talks about the singularity of like not being able
Speaker 4: to differentiate AI recording the song by Janelle Monne or
Speaker 4: Janelle Monet really mapping out that voice. And it's so
Speaker 4: interesting that it's happening now. And when I think about
Speaker 4: the album, how I hate to say it, we knew
Speaker 4: that that when this moment of integration happens, humans were
Speaker 4: going to be frantic about it, as you can see
Speaker 4: right now, Like it's a lot going on in my
Speaker 4: business when it comes to using the likeness of an
Speaker 4: actor's face without paying them, like AIS in that conversation heavily,
Speaker 4: and people are afraid and they're scared and I totally
Speaker 4: get that, and I also think that there needs to
Speaker 4: be more conversation and more laws and things rules to
Speaker 4: really be agreed upon, because not all humans.
Speaker 3: Are bad and not all AI is bad.
Speaker 4: So I think that there needs to be a real
Speaker 4: conversation around who's programming AI. But the thing that I
Speaker 4: realized in knowing that the Singularity was going to happen
Speaker 4: was that it's nothing like that human in human connection.
Speaker 4: It was so important for us to gather and have
Speaker 4: experiences that cannot be created by AI. We can only
Speaker 4: have these the barbecue experiences, you know, sharing food together,
Speaker 4: wrapping our arms around each other, being there for each other,
Speaker 4: and these times, these are moments that humans have such
Speaker 4: a deep connection to and can talk about in ways
Speaker 4: that AI can. And that was my hope too, is
Speaker 4: to encourage more community, to encourage people to be with
Speaker 4: each other like our stories are all we have. It
Speaker 4: is our stories that will set us apart and continue
Speaker 4: to make us believe in humanity again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how have you guys playing guitar on the steps,
Speaker 1: barely finishing college, having to shot out some money to
Speaker 1: do it? You guys found each other over those years,
Speaker 1: you guys have amassed a body of work, all very
Speaker 1: different from each other, genre less. As you said from
Speaker 1: the beginning, money comes success time, new people, new relationships,
Speaker 1: new opportunities. It's incredible to me that you guys have
Speaker 1: managed to stay close.
Speaker 6: There you go, Yeah, separate the legal entity of the
Speaker 6: Rolling Stones, you know, it's like, yeah, I have no
Speaker 6: real responsibility to each other.
Speaker 2: We do, but we do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's very I'm happy that you brought that up.
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 4: And when I look at some of the collectives, and
Speaker 4: you know, we don't have to dig into names, but
Speaker 4: even even some of the most iconic collectives ended up
Speaker 4: not working with each other anymore. And I just remember
Speaker 4: the time when they were and how that felt, and
Speaker 4: how I felt when it wasn't the case anymore. And
Speaker 4: I just it always was important to me to nurture
Speaker 4: my relationships, like I invest in people, you know, not
Speaker 4: because they're of course, everybody is very talented, but I
Speaker 4: think they're really really great people who happened to be
Speaker 4: very talented. And when you come from a big family
Speaker 4: like me, I have forty nine first cousins, so I
Speaker 4: was brought into a community, you know that runs through
Speaker 4: my blood. And it's loyalty, and it's growth and transparency
Speaker 4: and communication and all those things in respect as somebody
Speaker 4: who has ideas, obviously, I'll always have the final say
Speaker 4: if we're working on something with what I want to do,
Speaker 4: you know, on my music.
Speaker 3: But I love listening.
Speaker 4: I love being able to hear how Nate's mind is working,
Speaker 4: to hear how Chuck's mind is working. Since a bueno
Speaker 4: is thinking none no, like I love to see how
Speaker 4: they interpret certain things and how they sharpen my sword
Speaker 4: you know when it is time to creatively fight for
Speaker 4: an idea.
Speaker 3: So I love that.
Speaker 4: I love what this community has done, not just for
Speaker 4: me before the rest of the.
Speaker 5: World quests love for us aside a few years ago
Speaker 5: and he was like, listen, man, you guys have something
Speaker 5: really really special. But just so you know the most
Speaker 5: important thing you guys can do, just trust me on this.
Speaker 5: Just stay together. Just stay together. And he went through
Speaker 5: his stories of what happened, like all the things that
Speaker 5: happen to you can change you. But just know that
Speaker 5: you guys have something very special and it's worth protecting.
Speaker 5: Stay together. Don't get distracted by whatever else comes. Just
Speaker 5: stay together. And the other thing is that we have
Speaker 5: this credo, a Wonderland credo that was written a long time.
Speaker 2: Ago, like very very early.
Speaker 5: And in there it discusses our responsibility to each other
Speaker 5: and to our broader community, but.
Speaker 2: Specifically to each other.
Speaker 5: How we need to take care of each other, how
Speaker 5: we need to look after each other. Those basic things
Speaker 5: are written into our credo of how we understand Wonderland.
Speaker 5: Like at its foundation it must at least be a
Speaker 5: community or artists can be taken care of and of
Speaker 5: course challenge each other around our ideas, but that we
Speaker 5: feel at least safe to have our ideas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how you make your best music again, when
Speaker 4: you feel safe with the people that you're with, Like
Speaker 4: when you feel like you can just go there and
Speaker 4: try new shit out like fall in love with music,
Speaker 4: fall in love with art, And I think that's what
Speaker 4: we love at our core.
Speaker 1: First of all, you guys are living the dream. I
Speaker 1: mean that you guys found each other. It's hard.
Speaker 3: Let me say, it is hard work. It is not easy.
Speaker 2: Art is hard.
Speaker 4: Depending on what process you're in, it can be frustrating
Speaker 4: and just like you can lose your confidence and second
Speaker 4: guess yourself, or you could be having the best time
Speaker 4: of your life. You wake back up and listen to
Speaker 4: that demo or you wrote the night before, you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: this ship is fire, like thank God, and you play
Speaker 4: it for people outside you know, who were not a
Speaker 4: part of the process, and you get that feedback. It
Speaker 4: can be disappointing or it can be like, Yes, when
Speaker 4: do you.
Speaker 1: Start playing stuff for Is it usually like earlier in
Speaker 1: the process, or is it like.
Speaker 3: I try to play as early as possible.
Speaker 2: I like people seeing in the studio when I'm working
Speaker 2: on music.
Speaker 1: I gotta feel that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's different. I don't know.
Speaker 4: But but with Age of Pleasure, I was more open.
Speaker 4: But with all my other albums I would be in
Speaker 4: their engineering myself. I engineer myself a lot on this
Speaker 4: project too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just because you wanted to be.
Speaker 5: Because I needed When she goes in, yah, it's like
Speaker 5: close it and Janelle go in there and will engineer.
Speaker 4: And then I'll call them back in like once I
Speaker 4: have all my takes that I feel like are highlighted
Speaker 4: and good, or I'll ask them to highlight in green,
Speaker 4: like which ones you think are the best. But I'm
Speaker 4: always searching for that feeling, and sometimes I need to
Speaker 4: be alone to get that feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna pause for another quick break and then
Speaker 1: come back with more from Nate Wonder and Janelle Monee.
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of my conversation with Nate
Speaker 1: Wonder and Janelle Monee. We were talking about the diaspora
Speaker 1: earlier and one of the beautiful that on the album
Speaker 1: Daspa was like really represented from Sam Coudie, Yes to
Speaker 1: uh to Sister Nancy, Nancy Grace Jones, uh.
Speaker 2: K K Doms Unlimited.
Speaker 3: From Atlanta to Ghana, to Nigeria to Jamaica and so on.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just we're so friends on there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the musicians talking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what did those come from?
Speaker 4: Corey hen from us so French the French seventy five
Speaker 4: is us in New Orleans during Essence Fest, not this
Speaker 4: year but last year and we were we woke up
Speaker 4: and we started talking about the night that we had
Speaker 4: and it was my first it was like my first
Speaker 4: time getting beads and so if you've been to New Orleans,
Speaker 4: you know what getting your beads means. Like it's so
Speaker 4: fun and I was, it was so liberating and just
Speaker 4: really I know, right, it involves you going down on
Speaker 4: in the French quarters and if you lift your shirt up,
Speaker 4: they would throw you some beads. And it's a part
Speaker 4: of the New Orleans culture. Fun and it was freeing
Speaker 4: because as somebody who's like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: I'm famous, they can't do these things. I'll end up.
Speaker 4: And nobody even really posted it until like years later. No, no, no,
Speaker 4: nobody found it. Actually, nobody found that video. Maybe one person.
Speaker 4: No no, no, no, not not my beads. Oh I've done that.
Speaker 3: On several occasions.
Speaker 4: No, it's really the beads want too. I thought, okay,
Speaker 4: well that's awesome. It made me smile. Remember I said
Speaker 4: this album we are smiling. This season, we are smiling.
Speaker 4: And that being said, I wanted to just have authentic
Speaker 4: conversations with my friends and I just asked them it
Speaker 4: was okay if I press record, and it's just it
Speaker 4: was authentic because the people who were there, they're really
Speaker 4: my friends. And so to have these conversations with the
Speaker 4: people who are directly involved in inspiring the songs and
Speaker 4: the song writings. They were all in the studio when
Speaker 4: we were writing them. They were the first people that
Speaker 4: I think everybody on the interview they were some of
Speaker 4: the first people that heard the songs. So when we
Speaker 4: did Float to Champagne Shit, those were their ellipstic lover
Speaker 4: Like when we were writing those songs, I always looked
Speaker 4: at how they moved. I always looked at the body language.
Speaker 4: I always looked at like when they would go play
Speaker 4: other artists songs, what they asked to play this song again,
Speaker 4: because I liked their taste and I knew that they
Speaker 4: were like key in helping us nurture that audience that
Speaker 4: we wanted.
Speaker 1: Like what we would example, something you might have tweeked it.
Speaker 1: So you're looking at your friends playing on they might
Speaker 1: not quite groove the way you expect. Yeah, so what
Speaker 1: do you do? You just go back in and you
Speaker 1: know what, I.
Speaker 3: Don't feel like we had a lot of those moments
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 5: Only I know one song that that happened with and
Speaker 5: we changed. It didn't come we were in the middle
Speaker 5: of trying to figure the song out.
Speaker 2: It was hot.
Speaker 1: Okay, YEA changed that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's actually a David Bowie vocal that was supposed
Speaker 4: to go on that.
Speaker 5: It was a quote from an interview that he had
Speaker 5: done that right after right after Janelle says, uh, they
Speaker 5: say I look better than David Bowie and the moon
Speaker 5: Age Dream.
Speaker 2: There's this quote line.
Speaker 1: I love that line.
Speaker 2: Because I think Edward had taken us to the movies.
Speaker 5: To see moon Aed's day Dream because he knew Janelle
Speaker 5: was a huge fan.
Speaker 3: I oh, you took everybody.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, you took everybody to see the David boy
Speaker 5: film moon AG's day Dream.
Speaker 1: You said Edward Norton.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we had just so when I when we
Speaker 4: wrote the Age of Pleasure. Right before that, I just
Speaker 4: filmed The Glass Onion and we were in Greece and Serbia,
Speaker 4: and I was having Nate send me music there because
Speaker 4: I was like, when I get back, I'm writing this album. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm writing this album. I'm so inspired. I know I'm
Speaker 4: clear on where I am, who I am, and what.
Speaker 3: I need to do.
Speaker 4: And so he sent me all the music of some
Speaker 4: of the musical beds and I picked what I loved
Speaker 4: and liked. As soon as I got back, I was
Speaker 4: in the studio.
Speaker 1: It's poetic that you're working on the Glass Onion and
Speaker 1: you're coming clear about.
Speaker 2: Who you are.
Speaker 1: Clear.
Speaker 4: It's like pull back the layer. Yeah, So David boy quote.
Speaker 4: It says, I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist
Speaker 4: to fulfill other people's expectations.
Speaker 3: If you feel safe.
Speaker 4: In the area you're working in, you're not working in
Speaker 4: the right area. Always go a little further into the water.
Speaker 4: Then you feel you're capable of being in a little
Speaker 4: bit out of your own depth. And when you don't
Speaker 4: feel that your feet are quite touching the bottom, you're
Speaker 4: just about in the right place to do something exciting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So that was the end of that was the
Speaker 5: quote that was on the in the record.
Speaker 3: We should put that back in time.
Speaker 5: It was great, but of course, like when you're at
Speaker 5: a party, you may not want to go into the like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just like.
Speaker 1: Appreciate.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen it, but it's really incredible.
Speaker 4: Because this is somebody who, like myself, you know, is
Speaker 4: a world builder. Yeah, and somebody who believed like Ziggy
Speaker 4: Starred Us and the Spiders from Mars, gave me the
Speaker 4: courage to do Cindy Mayweather in Metropolis and the Arc
Speaker 4: Android and to create these versions of ourselves, you know,
Speaker 4: these thousand versions of myself and we're all fine. That's
Speaker 4: if you don't know that's from Phenomenal on the Age
Speaker 4: of Pleasure. Sorry, so so to be able to watch
Speaker 4: him say, I know that I could be Ziggie Startles
Speaker 4: for the rest of my life, or I can become
Speaker 4: more of who I am and give you that and
Speaker 4: not be afraid, you know, to break it down and
Speaker 4: rebuild and reimagine who I can be. So that really
Speaker 4: also helped inspire me as well.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get a chance to meet him?
Speaker 4: I feel like I did. I feel like our spirits
Speaker 4: absolutely met each other. I know that he knew who
Speaker 4: I was because I did a cover of heroes and
Speaker 4: his wife Emon told me and he had to clear it.
Speaker 4: And his wife told me that he really loved me,
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, I wish I could have
Speaker 4: told him how much I really loved him. But I
Speaker 4: think he knows it. They are aware.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you putty naturally fall into I mean, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: you feeling like you want to start writing for women
Speaker 1: people calor non binary folk. Was it easy to slide
Speaker 1: into that mentality? Was it easy to stike?
Speaker 5: I felt compelled and again, and when I feel compelled,
Speaker 5: I'm like, man, I'm doing it?
Speaker 1: Was it a messy star did it feel always right.
Speaker 3: Or natural to fill myself playlist?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh yeah, that really encouraged me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean both of us had the same thought.
Speaker 4: So we were listening to Spotify. We had an opportunity
Speaker 4: to listen to a lot of music. I start back
Speaker 4: working out and there were a lot of black women
Speaker 4: on this playlist that were just like sounding extra liberated
Speaker 4: and super tapped into their well of honesty and truth
Speaker 4: and sensuality and sexuality and grit and softness and hardness.
Speaker 4: Like I loved hearing that all on one playlist, and
Speaker 4: it encouraged me to tap into my many different sides.
Speaker 4: And I think Nate would see me listening to Filling
Speaker 4: myself playlists around the studio and as I was working out,
Speaker 4: and it was like, I've never remembered and that's the
Speaker 4: beautiful thing with playlists and really curate your own world,
Speaker 4: your own soundtrack. And when I felt that vibe, I
Speaker 4: was like, I want more of this, and I want
Speaker 4: the people that are listening to this who are feeling
Speaker 4: like they have not been able to walk in their
Speaker 4: greatness as black women, as non bininary folks, as marginalized people.
Speaker 3: They haven't been able to really own all of them.
Speaker 4: I want to lead by example and I want I
Speaker 4: want to highlight them. I want and highlight them by
Speaker 4: creating music that speaks to their hearts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I got your daughters, and I don't want them
Speaker 1: to feel ashamed of pleasure or whatever, like as they
Speaker 1: get older and ornot and it's like, ye, but society
Speaker 1: for so you.
Speaker 5: Know, and it's still that it's still a lot of
Speaker 5: work to be done in that area. But you know,
Speaker 5: one of the things I noted was that playlist. Like
Speaker 5: when you go to like a rap Caviaar or the
Speaker 5: other like big hip hop, the biggest hip hop playlist,
Speaker 5: sometimes they'll even have like a woman on the cover.
Speaker 5: But then you go through the actual playlist, it literally,
Speaker 5: out of one hundred songs, it might be like three
Speaker 5: songs by women, and it really I just took so
Speaker 5: much issue with it.
Speaker 2: I was just like, this is wild.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like literally they'll put Megan thee Stallion on the
Speaker 5: cover of it, and then I to go like down
Speaker 5: thirty songs to get to her song.
Speaker 2: It's like, this is graz this is wow.
Speaker 4: And that was another reason why we wanted to make
Speaker 4: sure that you know, black women were represented on this
Speaker 4: project generationally, from Dochi to you know, the King of Jamaica, Grace.
Speaker 1: Jones, Grace's albums really album Come on exactly. Yeah, ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you she.
Speaker 4: I spent seventy two hours with Grace Jones. That's how
Speaker 4: we got her on the album.
Speaker 1: I was going to sall you got it, you don't money.
Speaker 3: I'm still like just.
Speaker 4: Bowing down to her. Seventy two hours with her where
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Come together.
Speaker 4: So I went to her at the Hollywood Bowl and
Speaker 4: I ended up. She was somehow it's like her life
Speaker 4: on her last songs and they were calling people on stage,
Speaker 4: and of course I'm a jump on stage.
Speaker 3: And if you look online.
Speaker 4: If you look online, you will see there's a video
Speaker 4: of me running through Grace Jones' legs, her smacking my
Speaker 4: ass us, dancing like just being the free spirits that
Speaker 4: we are. And I had met her years back, but
Speaker 4: we didn't really get to connect. And she did call me.
Speaker 4: She called me years back, and I was so shocked.
Speaker 3: I was like, how does she.
Speaker 4: Even get my number? And she just called me and
Speaker 4: she told me she loved me, and I was just like,
Speaker 4: I love you, but we never got to connect again
Speaker 4: after that. I think maybe she changed her number, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe she just went to another planet for the springtime.
Speaker 3: Who knows, it's Grace Jones.
Speaker 4: And so when she came this time though, we went
Speaker 4: backstage and we really connected and she she was.
Speaker 3: Just like hugging me.
Speaker 4: I was hugging her, and she was just saying, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm in town for a few days. She invited me
Speaker 4: to her hotel where they had like a small little
Speaker 4: gathering to celebrate her incredible performance live.
Speaker 3: If you ever get a chance, go see her. She nobody,
Speaker 3: nobody touches her.
Speaker 1: I regret not going. I was going to supposed to
Speaker 1: go to that.
Speaker 3: Always you just always say yes.
Speaker 4: And so that night when we went back to her hotel,
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, I you know, I had
Speaker 4: to leave, and I just said, I'm just gonna invite
Speaker 4: her to Wonderland. What she can just say no, and
Speaker 4: if she says no, I'll be like yes. Grace Jones
Speaker 4: told me no, Yes.
Speaker 3: So great.
Speaker 4: And so I said, listen, I have to leave, but
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know what your schedule is tomorrow,
Speaker 4: but I would love to have you for lunch at
Speaker 4: Wonderland at our studio and she was like, is there
Speaker 4: a pool there? And I was like, indeed, there is
Speaker 4: a pool. And then she was like, okay, I will
Speaker 4: call you. I'm gonna come, and I just I was
Speaker 4: like okay, And I was like, she says this to everybody,
Speaker 4: I'm sure because she doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
Speaker 3: And she called.
Speaker 4: She had she had her assistant text and asked if
Speaker 4: it was a heated pool. If they but she swims
Speaker 4: every day, is her exercise? And I asked them, well,
Speaker 4: what does she drink? What does she Like, Like, I'm scrambling,
Speaker 4: I'm like, how am I going to host Grace Jones?
Speaker 3: Everybody? We need to have a meeting, right go to
Speaker 3: the grocery store? What are we doing?
Speaker 4: And he sends me this list like her wine list
Speaker 4: is immaculate, her champagne list is immaculate.
Speaker 3: And so she came over and we really had lunch
Speaker 3: and we really got in this pool.
Speaker 4: She took her top off. Just I mean, I know,
Speaker 4: we're talking a lot about all of the toplessness, which
Speaker 4: which is really great because as we know, we live
Speaker 4: in a world where there's a double standard. Yeah, you
Speaker 4: know where The liberation that Grace has been able to
Speaker 4: do did not come with open arms, you know.
Speaker 3: It came with a lot of scrutiny.
Speaker 4: This is somebody who was raised under a pastor, you know,
Speaker 4: who was a bishop and in a very conservative community.
Speaker 4: And for her to say I'm gonna live my mother
Speaker 4: fucking life and to show us that like that was
Speaker 4: all I needed to see and hear. And she she
Speaker 4: really by being her and by hanging out with her
Speaker 4: and her encouraging me to be me, and sitting in
Speaker 4: the studio listening to the songs, like her getting up
Speaker 4: dancing and moving and telling us which one she loved
Speaker 4: and what like her hearing the instruments and talking about
Speaker 4: that like she is a musical genius. It was all
Speaker 4: the affirmation I needed.
Speaker 1: First of all, her taking off her top of your
Speaker 1: pool is a real legendary, what an honor, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? You curated this.
Speaker 3: It's just a typical Tuesday for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But then so then you pull in the studio when
Speaker 1: she's listening. You asked her to Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was like, I told her, I said I would
Speaker 4: love to get you, you know, on our project.
Speaker 3: She was like, Okay, well where is it.
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, since you asked, there's a
Speaker 4: studio right in here, and so we went in there.
Speaker 4: And but I will say recording Grace Jones because I
Speaker 4: had to wrangle her in it is like having the
Speaker 4: most beautiful panther in the studio that then turns into
Speaker 4: a tiger that then turns into like a bird with
Speaker 4: the biggest wings that will flap around and you just
Speaker 4: you cannot contain that energy. You just have to have
Speaker 4: everything on record and get what you can. Wow, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. You can't really tell her what
Speaker 4: to do. But even in the moments where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: can you do more of this or do more of that,
Speaker 4: or no, say it like this, or talk French because
Speaker 4: she speaks French fluently, and that's what we and that
Speaker 4: was the thing that I said, Oh, that's the sexy
Speaker 4: shit that I want on this project, because I don't
Speaker 4: think we've really gotten a chance to hear her in
Speaker 4: that way. And we've actually recorded more, like I have
Speaker 4: at least two hours of recording with Grace job definitely,
Speaker 4: and I really really want to. She's working on her album,
Speaker 4: which is going to also be incredible. She played us
Speaker 4: her album like I got to hear Grace Jones's album.
Speaker 3: We did. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Well man, you got I mean the fact
Speaker 1: that you went as far as to pull Grace Jones
Speaker 1: in the studio for your album. Nothing we can say
Speaker 1: but thank you. There's nothing we could say but thank
Speaker 1: you and congratulations on not just the Grammy, but congratulations
Speaker 1: for that, but just what I've seen and do to
Speaker 1: people's spirits over the last eight months.
Speaker 3: You know, that's all we want. It's incredible, that's all
Speaker 3: we want. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Can I ask her not to put you on the spot?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: I love We're far enough from heaven.
Speaker 3: You are a Deep Cotton fan.
Speaker 1: I fucking love Deep Cotton. I don't know where the
Speaker 1: lost my copy.
Speaker 3: Of I Love This You Are. I knew I liked you,
Speaker 3: but now I love you. I love this is my.
Speaker 1: Ship, this song is I feel like I don't even
Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain my love of this.
Speaker 3: So good, it's really good.
Speaker 4: Now we can freak out.
Speaker 3: So well done.
Speaker 7: You use the brandons to pick out you can join
Speaker 7: it sh bang bang, you can't learning them heaving.
Speaker 1: Now we can bring out there's some broad doesn't here's
Speaker 1: a veranda.
Speaker 2: It wants to break out. There's a killer and all
Speaker 2: that is much and it all bang bang go. It's
Speaker 2: jars and it's so good on more you can see it.
Speaker 3: You can dealing now until right as well, kiss the
Speaker 3: monster lighting up.
Speaker 7: To your dad.
Speaker 1: You don't think cash you all? I got it?
Speaker 2: Just take your burthers man didn't tell some stories in here?
Speaker 1: And who can cook?
Speaker 2: Who can clean?
Speaker 1: Who will pay the fence?
Speaker 2: Who can cook?
Speaker 7: Who can clean?
Speaker 1: Who will pay the fence?
Speaker 2: Who can cook?
Speaker 3: Who can clean?
Speaker 1: Who can paint the fence? I will? I will far
Speaker 1: enough from evan. Now we can break out.
Speaker 2: Yeah we're fire, nothing heaving.
Speaker 1: Now we can break out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, freak out, Yeah we're freak out.
Speaker 3: You have excellent tastes.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: They like.
Speaker 4: When I heard their song, actually, when Nate was saying,
Speaker 4: like he met me performing on the library steps with
Speaker 4: the guitar, I was heavily just like on some acoustic
Speaker 4: big afro I guess you would say.
Speaker 3: Neo soul vibes.
Speaker 4: And when I heard their music it changed my whole life.
Speaker 4: It changed the way I saw us because I hadn't
Speaker 4: seen I mean with the exception of like Andre, because NARLS.
Speaker 3: Barkley wasn't even around at that time. But with the
Speaker 3: exception of like the Love Below and what.
Speaker 4: Andre was doing and you know, some some some indie
Speaker 4: artists in Atlanta, nobody was stretching and it's sounding good,
Speaker 4: like it was either too alternative for me to get to,
Speaker 4: you know, to get into, and there was no melody.
Speaker 3: There was no soul.
Speaker 4: But when I heard their stuff, I was like, it
Speaker 4: was up temp. There were there were like up tempo
Speaker 4: records that sounded like Japanese funk.
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's the best way to describe it.
Speaker 4: And all I knew was like, I want to make
Speaker 4: music like that, and so that I really have to
Speaker 4: credit Deep Cott for why I like up tempo songs
Speaker 4: and why I make up tempo music and stretch.
Speaker 1: When it comes to genre, textures are incredible. No one really,
Speaker 1: no one really plays like acoustic like that, like an
Speaker 1: up It sounds like some Frank Black like it's it's weird,
Speaker 1: bizarre like phrase.
Speaker 4: Chuck is an incredible writer, imminator, like their their partnership.
Speaker 5: We actually had it's crazy. We actually are finishing our
Speaker 5: album right now. We actually just got the album cover
Speaker 5: done for it and everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're coming out, what is coming true?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: I love that song because I love the line who
Speaker 5: can cook, who can clean? Who will paint the fence?
Speaker 5: I mean, there's so many other things about the song
Speaker 5: that are great, but also who can cook, who can clean?
Speaker 2: Who will paint the fence?
Speaker 5: Because it takes like this idea of like taking over
Speaker 5: the mansion, tell some stories and there and all that
Speaker 5: kind of stuff, which is cool idea, right, but then
Speaker 5: like it's the responsibilities that you have to each other,
Speaker 5: like who's who can cook, who can clean, who will
Speaker 5: paint the like who's doing the real work that it
Speaker 5: takes to like stay alive. So we can, you know,
Speaker 5: take over this match and tell some stories.
Speaker 1: I love it. Thanks so much, guys, Thank you so much, creative,
Speaker 1: Thank you. This is beautiful, incredible. Thanks to Janemo, n
Speaker 1: A and Nate wonder for the invite to Wonderland to
Speaker 1: chat about her latest album, The Age of Pleasure. You
Speaker 1: can hear it along with our other favorite songs of
Speaker 1: Jennemales and Nate Wonders on a playlist at Broken record
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube
Speaker 1: dot com slash broken Record podcast, where you can find
Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited
Speaker 1: by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and
Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinay. Broken Record is
Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin
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Speaker 1: us on your podcast app. Our theme Music's back Anny Beats.
Speaker 2: I'm justin Richmond.