1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: your retribution. I am your retribution. Retribution was a key 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: theme of President Donald Trump's return to the White House. 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 2: Here he is in twenty twenty two speaking about the 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: injustice he saw in the convictions of January sixth, right, 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: because they are being treated so unfairly. And in twenty 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: twenty three talking about the injustice of the cases brought 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 2: against him. But remember it's a Democrat charging his opponent. 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Nobody's ever seen anything like it. 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: That means that if I win and somebody wants to 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 2: run against me. 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: I call my attorney general. I say, listen, indict him. Well, 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: he hasn't done anything wrong that we know. 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: I don't know up on income tax evasion. You'll figure 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: it out. 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Going into his second term, it was an open question 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: about how much time would be spent on policy versus 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: how much time would be spent on revenge. 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,639 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's senior national political reporter, Nancy Cook has covered Trump 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: for a decade and interviewed him at mar A Lago 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: a couple days before the first twenty twenty four presidential debate. 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: I think there were people around him who wanted him 25 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: to really build a big policy agenda and were steering 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: him away from the retribution agenda. But what we've seen 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: in office so far is that the retribution agenda is 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: alive and well, and even more so than I think 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: Republicans and even people close to Trump thought were possible. 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News today on the show, how Trump is upending 32 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: norms and expanding presidential powers to target his perceived political enemies. 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: A major weapon in that fight the Department of Justice. 34 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Nancy Cook says that when Trump took office in January, 35 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: he made it clear that retribution wasn't just a campaign theme, 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: it was a key part of his second term agenda. 37 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: The tools at his disposal are quite large at this 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: point because his administration is taking a very broad view 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: of presidential executive power. And I would say that unlike 40 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: the first term, this time they have really approached the 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: retribution campaign with real military style precision, a lot of 42 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: savviness about how to use the levers of the federal government. 43 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: We saw him very quickly go after law firms that 44 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: had done work for people he didn't like, using social 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: media to go after people pulling security clearances, and then 46 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: lately we've seen him go after specific people who have 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: been personally critical of the Trump administration. 48 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: The Department of Justice has indicted for FBI Director James Core. 49 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, has just been. 50 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: On the Attorney General Letitia James has been indicted. 51 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: Part of what's enabled the Trump administration to pursue these 52 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: targets is the cooperation of the Department of Justice. 53 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 3: Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing to be Attorney 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 3: generalist she wasn't going to have an enemies list at 55 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: the Justice Department, but she doesn't need an enemy's list 56 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: because she has been given Trump's enemies list. 57 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: Chris Strome covers the Department of Justice for Bloomberg. 58 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 3: Across the board, Bondie and her top staff have been 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: carrying out essentially a purge at the Justice Department, where 60 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: hundreds of people, career prosecutors and staff have been fired 61 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: or resigned, and in concert with that, they've been investigating 62 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 3: and now prosecuting individuals who Trump has identified as being 63 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: his political enemies. They are carrying out broad, sweeping investigations 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: into what Trump and his allies have said is a 65 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: grand conspiracy against Trump, dating back to twenty sixteen, starting 66 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: with the Russian investigation, going into the Moler investigation, going 67 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: into the investigation to Trump's efforts to overturn the twenty 68 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: twenty election, and then the investigation into Trump retaining classified documents. 69 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: It seems he doesn't view this as weaponizing the justice system. 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: He views this as using the justice system in the 71 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: same way that it was used against him. Is that fair. 72 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the really interesting approaches that Trump and 73 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 3: his allies are taking is to say that the Justice 74 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: Department was weaponized against them and therefore or they're trying 75 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: to correct the record. They're trying to prosecute people who 76 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 3: carried out criminal actions up to and including treason against Trump. 77 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 3: And if you look at the actions that are being 78 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 3: taken now against Jim Comey or Letitia James or John Bolton, 79 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: a lot of it is finding any kind of charge 80 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 3: that they possibly can to hang onto somebody. It doesn't 81 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: matter that these charges don't have anything to do with 82 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: the grand conspiracy. All that matters is that these people 83 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: are under investigation and now being prosecuted, and so Trump 84 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: can claim that he's been right all along in saying 85 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: that these people are dirty and these people are corrupt, 86 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 3: and therefore they deserve to go to jail. 87 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: Are there any mechanisms in place that are supposed to 88 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: prevent the president from using the Department of Justice in 89 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: this way. 90 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 3: One of the really interesting lessons from the Trump era 91 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 3: is that what we thought were rules and regulations governing 92 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: how the Justice Department operated and how criminal prosecutions were 93 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: conducted actually don't really exist. What Trump has exposed is 94 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 3: that we've been relying on a series of norms and 95 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 3: traditions where the Justice Department would willingly have a distance 96 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: and an independence from the administration. Multiple Attorney generals and 97 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: Justice Department officials across administrations have enforced policies and rules 98 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: that would separate the Justice Department from the White House 99 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 3: when it came to conducting investigations and making decisions about prosecutions. 100 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 3: Trump has obliterated that he's come in with a wrecking 101 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 3: ball and essentially has declared himself as being the chief 102 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: law enforcement officer of the country and the person who 103 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: can make decisions about who should be prosecuted and even 104 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: how they can be prosecuted. 105 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: Nancy Cooke says that change in norms is something you 106 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: can actually see. 107 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: One thing that has struck me just visually about Trump 108 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: in his second term is Pam Bondy is over in 109 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: the Oval Office a lot of public events. I covered 110 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: the first Trump term, I covered two years of Biden's 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: White House, Like I don't remember Merrick Garland being over 112 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,119 Speaker 1: in the Oval Office all the time for events. Pam 113 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: Bondy is over there, often standing behind Trump as he 114 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: makes pronouncements, standing there with other officials. I would say 115 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: they're upending a lot of the legal agencies, including the FBI, 116 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: the CIA, But it's like she is visually aligned with 117 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: the President in these photo ops all the time as well. 118 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: The distance and independence the White House has traditionally kept 119 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: from the Department of Justice is a modern phenomenon that 120 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: only dates back to the aftermath of Richard Nixon's presidency 121 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: and the Watergate scandal. 122 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: Nixon tried to use the powers of the presidency in 123 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: order to invest to Gate his political enemies, and Nixon 124 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 3: tried to actually tell the Justice Department how to carry 125 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 3: out investigations. Members of Congress actually stood up to the 126 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 3: president and determined that the actions that were being taken 127 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: were offensive, that there had to be certain guardrails put 128 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: in place. And so that's when you began to see 129 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: laws that were actually passed, such as creating inspector generals 130 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:33,359 Speaker 3: within these agencies. But during this Trump administration, those safeguards 131 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: have just been knocked down. Trump fired a bunch of 132 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: inspector generals. He has declared that he can do what 133 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 3: he wants with the Justice Department, and you're not seeing 134 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: the same pushback in Congress that you did forty years ago. 135 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: Coming up, what's next in the cases of former FBI 136 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: director James Comey and New York's Attorney General Letitia James, 137 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 2: And what kind of new precedent Trump's norm breaking dj 138 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: could set. It's been over half a century since Nixon's 139 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: Watergate scandal pushed Congress to create firmer boundaries between the 140 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: Department of Justice and the president, but now Trump has 141 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: started breaking them. Critics have said that many of the 142 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: indictments Trump's DOJ has opened so far are motivated by 143 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: the president's quest for revenge. Trump doesn't see it that way. 144 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: It's about Justice's. 145 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: Brilliant, It's not revenge. 146 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: In late September, he was asked about the indictment of 147 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: former FBI director James Comy as he boarded Air Force one. 148 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 2: Comy was charged with making a false statement and obstructing 149 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: a congressional proceeding related to his twenty twenty testimony at 150 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 2: a Senate Judiciary hearing. He's pleaded not guilty. So it's 151 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 2: also about the fact that you can't let this go on. 152 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: They are sick, radical left people and they can't get 153 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: away with it and call me was one of the people. 154 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: He wasn't the biggest. Kmy first got on Trump's bad 155 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: side back in twenty sixteen, when Komy opened an investigation 156 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: into alleged ties between Trump's first presidential campaign and Russia. 157 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: That was the original Sin. 158 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg DOJ reporter Chris Strom. 159 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: As the investigation continued, Trump fired Komy in May of 160 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and Komy then leaked some of his written 161 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: memos about his interactions with Trump and the public. Revelations 162 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: were very damaging to Trump and actually led the Justice 163 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: Department at that time to a point Special Counsel Moler 164 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 3: to carry on the Russia investigation, and ever since then, 165 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 3: Trump has vilified Komy and called for his prosecution. 166 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: So it was something he couldn't get done in his 167 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: first term and became a big priority and part of 168 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: how he shaped the Justice Department in his second term. 169 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was not getting the results he wanted during 170 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 3: the beginning of his second administration, and so he put 171 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 3: out a very public demand on social media, essentially in 172 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 3: order to Bondie, demanding that Comy and others like Letitia 173 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: James be prosecuted. And it was only days later that 174 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: the White House installed one of Trump's White House aides, 175 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 3: Lindsay Halligan, who Trump abruptly put in as the interim 176 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: Use Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. And just 177 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 3: days after she was inserted into that position, she brought 178 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 3: an indictment against James Comy, and then a couple weeks later, 179 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: she brought an indictment against Letitia James. 180 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: James had launched a federal civil fraud against Trump and 181 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: the Trump Organization in twenty twenty two and one in October, 182 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: she was charged with mortgage occupancy fraud and for making 183 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: false statements to a financial institution. She's also pleaded not guilty. 184 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: The career prosecutors working in the Easter District of Virginia 185 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: had reached a decision that there was no justification to 186 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 3: bring these cases against Kome and James and that most 187 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: likely these cases would fail in court. 188 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: I'm wondering how Trump, being very open about his dislike 189 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: of Komy might play into this case, because I know 190 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: Komy has asked for the charges against him to be dismissed, 191 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: arguing that he is being personally targeted. 192 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: Komy has already filed a motion to say that the 193 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: indictment against him should be dismissed because it represents an 194 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: addictive and selective prosecution, and his legal team has cited 195 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: the multitude of times that Trump has disparaged Komye or 196 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 3: called for his prosecution. These motions have already been made, 197 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: They're under consideration by the judge. And trying to succeed 198 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 3: with emotion claiming vindictive and selective prosecutions very difficult. A 199 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 3: lot of defendants do it but don't have success. Komy 200 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: might be the poster child for a case that can 201 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 3: actually succeed, and if Comy's motion succeeds, it most likely 202 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 3: will also be replicated by Letitia James in her motion 203 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: and others who are still to come. 204 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 2: Comy and James, for their part, are both determined to 205 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: fight their charges in court. Their trials are set for January, 206 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: and over the past year, several DOJ attorneys have resigned 207 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: in protest over directives they were given in other investigations. 208 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: But Chris says Trump's DOJ is facing resistance that's much 209 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: more muted than it was in the Nixon era. 210 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: Congress has largely been absent. I mean Democrats don't have 211 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: any power. They don't control either the House or the Senate, 212 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: and so in order to have oversight hearings or to 213 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 3: demand information from the administration or issue subpoenas that can 214 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: only come from the Republican majority, and they're not doing it. 215 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: You do have individuals inside agencies such as the Justice 216 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: Department that are questioning what the White House and what 217 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: Trump are doing. There have been some examples where even 218 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: Attorney General Bondie and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche have 219 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: resisted certain steps that Trump and his allies want the 220 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: Justice Department to take. There's still some open questions about 221 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 3: what the Justice Department is going to do with some 222 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: of these cases that they haven't been fully on board 223 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 3: with what Trump has been demanding that they do. 224 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: I'm curious about long term precedent here. It's something that 225 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: comes up a lot when we talk about the way 226 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: that Trump is operating as president. Is it possible and 227 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: is it a concern that future US leaders, Republican or 228 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: Democrat could turn around and do the same thing to 229 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: their political opponents or use the DOJ to similar ends. 230 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean that's one of the concerns that has 231 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 3: been raised is that as Trump breaks down the walls 232 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: that have existed between the Justice Department and the White House, 233 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 3: he's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward 234 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 3: can use, and there's really nothing to stop that from happening, 235 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: short of either a public outcry that becomes so overwhelming 236 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: or congressional resistance. I think for Trump and his allies, 237 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: it's not even a matter of getting a conviction. It's 238 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: the process of indicting these individuals and forcing them to 239 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: have to get legal representation and go through court processes. 240 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: The process is the punishment, not just. 241 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: The process as the punishment, but also the message that 242 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: it sends to other people. 243 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's senior national political reporter Nancy Cook. 244 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: Again, if you speak out, there is a hugorist that 245 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: will go after you. And I think that you're seeing 246 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC a lot of self censorship, you know, 247 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: with like maybe lawyers not speaking out as much, or 248 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: former Trump officials who were very vocal and on TV 249 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: a lot going quieter. And so I do think that 250 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: it's it's the message that you know, you just keep 251 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: it to yourself. 252 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: In late September, Trump was asked who was next on 253 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: his list after the Coomy indictment, and he said he 254 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: isn't done, not a list, but I think there'll be others. 255 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: The next wave of indictments could come as soon as January, 256 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: when a federal grand jury convenes in Florida. The Trump's 257 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: allies expect will investigate what they believe has been a 258 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: long running conspiracy by former government officials to undermine Trump. 259 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: Trump has even said that the Justice Department needs to 260 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: take a look at Mayork Garland, Chris Ray, Lisa Monico, 261 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 3: Jack Smith. These were all the key officials in charge 262 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: of investigations that were against Trump. So that's the next 263 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 3: phase of the retribution campaign that I'm really paying attention 264 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: to right now in which individuals will get swept up 265 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: into that. 266 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: And also you have to keep in mind we're only 267 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: in year one of his four years second term, so 268 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: it's very unclear to me what does the Justice Department 269 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: look like at the end of. 270 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 2: This This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm 271 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: Sarah Holder. To get more from The Big Take and 272 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today 273 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked 274 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: this episode, make sure to follow and review The Big 275 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find 276 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 2: the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.