WEBVTT - "U Want Another President?" 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.440 You're listening waiting on reparations production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:14.640 Oh oh oh, I'm waiting our reparations. We're waiting on reparations. Yo, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.720 it's the International Spider with the passport. I will never 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.320 give you fuss anything you ask for when you get 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.639 my tape. Never put the ship on fast forward, or 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.439 I'm in your crib. You're like, why you got that 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.840 mask for? Ask for them? Suckers will be hate and 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.560 they'd be losing. Of course, y'a rape sitting there because 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.720 we'll be using the force. I write rhymes like I 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.639 do it for sport, like domes let me cruising their 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.320 poor scheak. I threw a divorce rap matter door. I 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.680 killed the bullshit quickly. More I show out, the more 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.760 kids diss me best out here, and my short fifth 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.959 fifty eyes go breathe, and then I'm more Bill Bixby. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.760 And this don't got nothing to do with the episode. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.080 So I guess I'll go shut my mouth and begin 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.120 the show there, Yo, why didn't anybody stop me? All right? 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:05.560 What am I doing? M lingual franca? We are waiting 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.240 on reparations. Welcome back another week? So where you got 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.119 going on this week? I've been good. We're slowly getting 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.080 unpacked to the new place. It's great. I'm discovering we 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.119 have a bunch of neighbors who are already friends of mine. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.520 That kind of feels like, uh yeah, like a big 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.679 old party over here. That's great. On the political side 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.960 of things, UM samps a different day that they're only 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.399 like big to report, keeping on, keeping on getting involved. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.319 As I just think I discussed in the previous episode 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.679 with the d SAS campaign for the pro Act, calling 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:46.720 UM people in the States whose legislators are kind of 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.680 on the fence to try to get them to contact 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.880 the representatives UM to support the pro act. We here enjoyed. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.600 You are lucky enough that uh senators us off on 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.600 war Knock are supportive the product, which is great. UM. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.400 But yeah, I've been working on that little tiny bit 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:07.680 up well. After this episode, the episode that you guys 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.400 are all here and out there. UM, we technically have 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:16.520 just two episodes remaining of the first season of the 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:21.600 Waiting on Reparations podcasts. So UM, I mean, we're we're 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.800 just gonna keep it rolling. I'm pretty sure we're not 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.160 going to have We're not having any sort of extended 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.800 hiatus because we are going to have a second season y'all. 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:32.800 And um, I do think we are going to take 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.560 a couple of weeks off though, to take a break. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.959 But I've been like, you know, pondering some of these 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:44.000 remaining two episodes and you know, trying to go out 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.960 with a bang, and I'm really curious. I'm just thinking 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.360 of a hip hop angle for it. But I really 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:55.040 want to tackle the whole issue with this uh new 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.680 rising anti vaxer movement because it's not it's definitely not 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.000 like some right wing thing. I mean, don't get me wrong, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.760 A lot of a lot of right wing kooks are 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.160 definitely on the anti vax or train. But you know, 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.280 there's there's a whole crop of people that otherwise would 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:17.720 seem like sensible people who are anti vax there, and 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.480 you know, skepticism of things like this isn't that doesn't 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:26.480 necessarily constitute as one being you know, having no sense, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.720 But um, yeah, I definitely want to tackle that because 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.200 it's been ratcheting up this past week for sure. Uh 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.680 Fox News has been sounding like a message board right now. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.200 So yeah, that's what I got going on. It's just 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.920 thinking of of of these uh these remaining episodes, so 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.280 we can go out with a bang. Speaking of episodes, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.240 this week, we're going to continue our globe trotting that 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.880 we've been doing lately, take a brief trip to Uganda 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:05.880 to discuss the rapper turned presidential hopeful Bobby Wine. He 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.120 was arrested last week while protesting the detention of a 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.600 lot of his supporters in the aftermath of the Ugandan 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:16.440 presidential election. Election disputes are common in other parts of 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:21.760 the world and seemed to be the exception years historically 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:26.200 up until recent years. Hence how alarming the January six 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.960 insurrection was to us. UM, we feel like we hadn't 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.000 had something like that happened in this country in a 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.960 long time, UM many hundreds of years, particularly pretending to 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.960 like an attack on the United States capital. And so 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.880 I think something of interest within this week's episode is 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:49.480 just looking at election integrity is viewed and grappled with 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:54.000 in other countries where issues are more common, more frequently 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:59.719 part of their uh political milieu, and um, particularly in 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:04.160 country who have had less continuity of government over the decades, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.400 in places like Uganda. But first we're going to talk 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.200 all about Bobby in the events that surround him. Right 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:21.200 after the joke, let's talk a little bit about who 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:34.080 Bobby Wine is. I don't know why they Bobby Wine 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:38.599 born Robert Kolani said Tamu again. His music career in 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.960 the early two thousands. His first singles I Could Goma, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.360 Funtula and Sunda brought him success all across the East Africa. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.320 Has been characterized reggae, dance hall and afrobeat, often especially 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.640 in the in the last and year six ago UM, 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.200 but particularly within the last like three or four or 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:01.040 five years, having a socially conscious message. He was a 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.440 leader of the group Fire Based Crew until it's disbandman, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.800 after which she started a new group known as Ghetto 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.839 Republic of Uganjo. In the past fifteen years, he's released 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.880 more than seventy songs, mostly love ballads, ragadocious tracks, voting 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.000 about his riches in the typical hip hop fair um. 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.360 Early on, he rarely delve into serious topics, but by 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.760 the late two thousands he began to make a big 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.200 name for himself in another arena politics. In two thousand 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.840 and eighteen, he was elected to the Ugandan Parliament as 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.440 a representative of Yadondo County, East constituency in the Wikiso 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.440 district in Uganda's Central Region. He also leads to the 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.560 National Unity Platform political party. With his rise to prominence, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.520 his regular love ballads have been replaced with inflammatory raptus 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.680 is of the Uganan establishment. Capitalizing on the growing discontent 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.560 with a neglectful autocratic government winds populous pro democracy anti 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.680 corruption movement People Power has gained a pretty big following, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.840 especially amongst young, urban and poor people. Bobby Wine, more 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:06.240 than any other oppositional leader there, clearly articulated the people's frustration. 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.120 Before he ran for parliament, Wine was known as the 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:17.240 Ghetto President because of his song Ghetto. It was his 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.760 first song that was really critical of the government. According 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.640 to Rolling Stone, Wine said he was inspired to release 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.280 the song after he saw the government sweep vendors and 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.480 beggars off the streets of Compo to polish the city's 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.400 image for a prepared host of the Commonwealth Heads of Government. 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.760 Music video has a bunch of visuals of like of 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.600 military in the streets, tanks rolling through the streets, UM 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:45.560 people gathering like police presents UM as well as just 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.360 like backdrop of like of of ghetto of people hanging 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.400 out UM and what appears to be you know, the slums. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.680 It gives a very you know it Scott is very 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.280 like crew vibe. And then the shots where it's like 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.080 Bobby Wine and like as people like chilling on the block, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:07.080 intermingled with you know, pictures of folks are presumably shot 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.360 by the police getting carded away, um, you know, people 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.520 in crowds yelling, and so I think it reflects like 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:21.160 iconography that's becoming common uh these days, particularly where people 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:26.160 are sort of like UM harnessing the imagery of collective 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.360 mass action to sort of UM to like set the 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:36.559 stage for UM counter or anti establishment messages in their music. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.760 Since then, he's repeatedly used his music as a political 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.880 tool to rally his supporters and spread his message. As 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.040 a matter of fact, his use of rap has made 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.520 him more successful than past opposition leaders. In June two, 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.920 he announced his candidacy One You've Gone in presidential election, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.720 where he sought to take on five term incumbent Worri Museveni. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.120 He ultimately captured about three point four eight million votes 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.400 in the election of the vote, falling short of Museveni's 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.520 five point eight five million votes or fifty eight percent. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.960 Wine in a large section of the public strongly refute 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.720 the results of the election, claiming fraud an intimidation carried 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.360 disappointed to victory. Wine and supporters have cited cases of 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:24.000 soldiers allegedly stuffing ballot boxes, casting ballots for people, and 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.319 chasing voters away from polling stations, and accused of Musavenia 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.199 stage coup in the election. Incertns about elections integrity have 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.400 spark protests all across Uganda and seen hundreds of wine 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.559 supporters cut Hundreds of wine supporters cut it off to 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.240 jail in the months surrounding the final election tally. Bobby 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.680 Wine himself was arrested last Monday while leading a protest 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.719 against the detention of many of his supporters. Wine is 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.439 called on authorities to free his supporters arrested before, during, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.920 and after last January presidential election. Gunded authorities have put 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.480 Wine on house arrest and stated that he can only 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.520 leave his house under military escort because they fear his 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:07.280 presence in public. Can site right in, well, Dann, that's 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:13.640 some fucking Malcolm X levels of of being able to 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.920 rally people behind you if you got them scared of 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.800 that ship. Um, it's he's thirty nine, So it's like 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:26.079 the era of hip hop that I would imagine he's 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.680 he came up in. You know, the things that were 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.000 insinuated and that are exactly the sort of things that 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:38.520 would help somebody like rise to political um, you know, 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:44.280 just political ascension. You by using their oratory and ability 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:49.719 to communicate with people publicly. Um, you know, the crowd control, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.679 being able to rock a mic. Really you know what 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.720 I'm saying. And it's like if people like the politics 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.520 that you're that you're saying and you're utilizing your music 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.240 to get that point across, and people are legit fucking 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.800 with the music, yeah, yoh, like you can. You can 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:14.240 move mountains with hip hop. Um. On March fifteen, Bobby 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.600 Wine took to Twitter um to think the fellow leaders 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.880 who joined him in peaceful protests in Kampala, which is 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.960 the capital and largest city in Uganda. He said, thankful 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.959 to those follow leaders who joined me in peaceful protests 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.520 in Kampala. Is always the cab really regime arrested us 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.680 all and released us without charge. The police continues to 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.880 rount my home, which I'll stop at nothing until General 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.120 Musavini stops humiliating their people. Now let's go a little 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:45.439 bit into just with some of the political dynamic or 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:51.320 situation is in Uganda. So the current president, the man 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:57.080 who won obviously is Yoweri Mussovini. He's a seventy six 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.360 year old former guerrilla leader who took power by force 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.560 in nine six and he's popular amongst many Ugandans because 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.720 you know, he he led. He he rose to power 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.680 in the aftermath of e d I mean and through 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.719 like a pretty turbulent time in the eighties, and so 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.720 he's popular with with a lot of the country for 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.360 bringing that stability and that security. In two thousand's ten, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.640 he actually, while running for re election, Mussavini dipped his 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.319 you know toes in the music game and dropped a 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.520 rap track of his own entitled you want another Rap? 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:41.600 Let's let check that out real quick like a savan 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:53.160 Yes dictatorship bars. I was waiting for that one. It's 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:58.120 clearly catchy song that mixes an African tune in local 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.720 language with English and you know, decidedly clubbyb to it. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:07.000 I think the lyrics of a song highlight must have 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.280 any's personal story and stress, hard work to get ahead 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.920 and there they go. He was given a knife, gave 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:15.960 it to the people who harvested millet, gave it the 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.480 millet to the cattle keepers, gave the millet to the call, 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.160 gave the millet to the cattle keepers, who gave him 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.640 a cow, which he took to the king. You can't 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.400 gave him a life. You wrap so like putting in, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.640 putting in work, moving, moving up. I'm in the world. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:35.480 The song starts out with mussavinni, Um, you know what 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:36.959 I'm saying. I think I can give you some rap 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.680 myself now, before beginning to wrap and Runya coore, a 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.400 tribal language in Uganda. It's got this distinctive kind of 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.400 gruff voice that flows with the music, sounding like a 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:53.520 bit like an older or in buster rhymes. Um you 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.720 want another rap, Bi shouts to the beating English, and 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.880 a crowd enthusiasticly responds yes Sambo mean yes. So that 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.320 was a cute little club bang your he dropped in 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.840 You know it was a two thousand and ten. But 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.560 Rary's attempts to curry favor with a gun and you 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.800 threw hip hop hasn't entirely covered up as administrations ills 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.400 Marius served as president since his military forces toppled the 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.760 regime of former General Idi amin In X, who was 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.600 who himself had used power through a military coup eight 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.680 years earlier. UM. Since then, since Uary took power, and 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.960 in an effort to reduce sectarian violence, political parties have 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.720 been restricted in their activities. Until a constitution referendum overturned 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.800 the rule in two thousand five, only one political organization, 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.360 in the National Resistance Movement, was allowed to operate in 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.320 the country, known as the Movement. It is still the 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.360 ruling party in Uganda today. It's interesting to me that 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.680 UM and all had efforts to bring stability to stop 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.920 the violence. We're gonna restrict people's ability to organize politically 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.800 within groups of that are I'd be luctically aligned. I mean, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.680 I guess a certain point if you just want stability, 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.720 if you want know which feels like freedom, like you're 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.120 willing to give up freedom to have that sense of 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.840 being a settled society. Over the decades, Mussavini's forces of 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.680 more from welcome liberators into state police, marred by accusations 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:21.640 of extra judicial killings, unfair rest, use of child soldiers, 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:26.960 just general corruption. Even in nine, Amnesty International published a 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:31.280 human rights report on Uganda entitled Uganda the Human Rights 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.000 Record nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine, and that 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.320 ship had mad accusations of human rights violations committed by 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:45.400 Musavini's troops. More recently, Musavini's former Inspector General of Police 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.960 was placed on the United States Treasury Department sanctions list 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.160 for alleged torture, corruption, and all sorts of wild ship 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.280 that took place under his watch while he was in 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.560 charge for thirteen years. I'm gonna speak to the fact 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.240 that like police and military or a problem in every 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.120 single country. Um, if we look at the ways that 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.120 you know, in recent episodes, we talked about the backlash 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.720 to the arrest of pablost Cell in Spain and the 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.040 way that the police violence um met the demonstrations that 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.840 rose up in response there. Um we think about the 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:25.960 um when you think about the huge uprising against stars 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:30.840 in Nigeria, like anywhere where the state has a monopoly 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.720 on violence, which is most places. You know, it's like 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.400 the definition of way, what is what? What differentiates a 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:43.640 state from you know, other forms of community organization. We see, 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.400 you know, these issues of corruption, these issues of suppression 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.480 of uh intimidation, um, and you see a lot of 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.160 human rights abuses. Oh yeah, No, it's it's definitely issue. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.800 I mean, I lived in Africa for you know, the 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.600 half of my life, so especially when I've got into 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:09.080 my teen years, I've definitely been arrested for no reason 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.240 and I've definitely had to pay off cops to not 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.840 have to go to jail for the night and show 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.720 like that. That's that's some common ship. But it's it's 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.280 one of those sort of things where it's, you know, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.359 hearing about this, it's like it's like you kind of 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.560 you kind of saying, at least to me, I'm saying 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.919 to myself, like, damn, you know, it would have been 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.280 better if you'll just had the regular corruption where you 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.240 got to pay them off because they're fucking with you, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.600 and not extra judicial killings and taking people out back 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:52.840 and trying to suppress the sentence ship. Earlier that same year, 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:57.680 Mussovini dropped a single that Hot Fire Human Rights Watch 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.240 issue to report, highlighting cases involving journalists who had reported 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:06.119 critical stories about the government being threatened, intimidated, arrassed, and 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.040 in some cases fraudulently charged with crimes. For example, the 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.520 Ugandan radio journalists Eric fat Nizo, who worked for a 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.200 popular radio station and was known for his political talk shows. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:22.600 He had been actually covering uh Musaveni's main opposition, and 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.440 he was kidnapped from the radio station and held in 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.960 detention for eight days until legal pressure against the government 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.399 from the Human Rights Network for Journalists saw Nitze freed. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.359 Bobby Wine himself has been the target of Musaveni's government 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.480 for oppression. Musavenia has tried to deal with Wines fire 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.800 and intimidation, but has yet to try to kill him well, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.359 arguably in furious sparking a popular uprising. Wine has been 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.240 arrested many, many times, often on dubious charges um and 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.440 as well as beaten, been beaten and torturing. His driver 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.119 was found shot dead at one point, but Wine claims 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.160 the boy was for him. Multiple members of his party 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.480 have also been arrested, beaten, kidnapped, or tortured. Even the 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.399 cult of personality around Bobby Wine and his immense popular larity, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.840 it's pretty sure that his death would send shock waves 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.320 sparked the kind of mass operising the government fears. Musivini 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.560 has multiple opportunities, has had multiple opportunities to permanently deal 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.639 with Bobby Wine um, but his relucttion to do so 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.800 suggest that for the time being, Bobby Wine is still 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.240 alive because of his popularity. When the multiparty presidential elections 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.320 were reinstated back in February o six, Mussavini, who was 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.200 the one who instituted the whole no party system thing, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.760 he ran against several candidates this time, and the most 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.520 prominent of those was the exiled doctor Kisa bess and 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.800 Jay Now Mussovinni was declared the winner, but bess and 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.640 j alleged fraud and rejected the results. The Supreme Court 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.800 of Uganda even ruled that the election was marred by intimidation, violence, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:20:00.440 voter disenfranchisement in all kinds of regularities. But at the 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.440 end of the day they voted for three and upheld 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:08.720 the election results. So January's election and the ensuing concern 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.800 about its integrity all seemed well founded given Yawori's track 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.720 record with this ship. And it's like you were saying earlier, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:21.919 I mean, everywhere has got elections being disputed. Is not 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.960 anything that's like uncommon in the world. It's uncommon here. 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.080 So like you're saying, that's why people should be alarmed 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:37.560 about it, but it's it's it's different from what happened 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:43.120 here on January six, And even that is different from 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.800 Russia Gate, because Russia Gate was like, as somebody who 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.879 I guess is a quote unquote, I'm not. I'm not 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.320 inclined to look at the Russia situation and be like, oh, 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.159 there's nothing to see here. It's all fine. That's just me. 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.240 If other motherfuckers want to be that, they can beyond that, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.520 that's cool. But for me, it's like if it looks 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.399 like a duck and it quacks like a duck, that 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.600 it's a damn duck. And to me it looks like 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.879 a lot of a lot of fishy ship. But I digress. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.320 There was never any part of that that was like yo, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:22.480 overturned the election or Donald Trump isn't the legitimate president, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.880 like like no one should listen to what he says, 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.360 like like that that was never really the call. Like 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:38.560 at at best, it was some smoke that needed investigation 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.719 and it works. It was like some ship that fucking 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.520 soccer moms were following on CNN and MSNBC, Like it 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.320 was a fucking their stories and ship, you know what 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.919 I mean, Like is relatively harmless ship. One thing we 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.600 do know with hindsight is it didn't lead to motherfucker's 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.840 storm in the Capitol or try to up the vote count. 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.840 That that never happened. You know what I'm saying. Motherfucker's 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.480 did go to jail and have to get presidential pardons 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:14.479 to get out dubious presidential pardons with that, So you know, 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:19.400 I I mean, I'm obviously not in Uganda, so I 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.919 can't And it's it's hard to really know the intricacies 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:30.080 of how Uganda elections work and whether or not Bobby 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.200 Wines or the opposition leaders of the past have been 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:39.040 valid in their claims of fraud and voter disenfranchiseman in etcetera, etcetera. 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.879 I'm more geared to not believe the dictators who have 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.120 been in power for like thirty years, so I'm I'm 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.600 more prone to go on the side of the opposition 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.480 in that one and to think that they're probably onto 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:56.399 something like you guys, yeah, you guys, you guys, you 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.199 guys probably got a good idea going there. You know 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:05.639 that something fishery is going on. But at the same time, 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:10.080 I'm preparing myself to be in that mindset too, because 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:14.280 I don't think that in this country that the Republicans 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:20.800 have any sort of intention of winning elections fairly anymore. 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.480 So I think people here need to get themselves in 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:29.480 the mindset of, like, okay, be prepared to be so 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.560 uncomfortable and unnerved by the results of an election that 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:41.440 you know to be wrong, that you feel you can't 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:45.640 just stand and let it slide. The difference is they 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.879 were doing all their storm in the Capitol bullshit on 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:51.359 some ship that most of them know is a lie. 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.320 Most of them know it's a lie, Like I don't know, 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.520 if you want to do a poll, it says seventy 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.879 million Americans think that there was election for I'm telling 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:04.640 you set sixty million of them relying their fucking ass off. 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.680 They don't believe that ship. They're just they're being fu controls. 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.479 I mean, I think I think this this tells us 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.840 interesting things about the way that a history, or like 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:21.400 a growing prominence rather of of discourse around discourse undermining 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.919 elections integrity can kind of like really root itself into 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.159 the public's consciousness. I think back to how, like you know, 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.040 in two thousand sixteen, liberals would not stop talking about 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.600 Russia Gate, Russia Gate, Russia Gate, how the you know 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:37.080 Russia stole the election from Hillary Clinton? But in certain 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.639 ways set the stage for January six, this narrative that 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.199 elections can be stolen when your team doesn't win, it 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.639 must be because there was some kind of trickery UM 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:50.520 that prevented one's favorite party from being successful. Not to 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:53.680 say that this is necessarily the case in Ughana's recent elections, 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.439 since they're UM since not to say that that was 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:00.280 the case in Ghana's recent election, but I think there 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:04.160 are some parallels between the popular movements UM that we're 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:10.200 seeing in both countries with regards to Nathan democracy, faithan electoralism, 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:15.160 and people taking to the streets in order to UM 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:18.320 to demonstrate for the cause that they care about when 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.280 their party isn't not successful and right now, I mean 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:26.320 here in Georgia were seeing a number of omnibus voter 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:31.240 suppression laws going to the Georgia State legislature UM, which 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.880 I wonder if it will have a similar impact UM 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.480 with regards to like liberals, faith and electoralism and democracy 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:42.840 like oh well, let's say in two thousand twenty two, 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.679 you know, stay see from Stunsford governor here and she 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:48.639 loses again and then last tame there was some you know, 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:50.800 there was talker on oh her election was stolen from 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.439 her by brand Kemp and if these laws passed like 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.680 those doubts will only be more firmly held. I fear 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.640 UM and so I just another out of us. I mean, 0:26:02.000 --> 0:26:03.800 there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of problems, 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.919 like representative democracy on the scale this large, when you 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:14.600 have an entire nation, UM, a national government trying to 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:19.359 manage the logistics of counting ballots and the lack of 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.800