1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:21,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin im Ave Higgins, and this is Solvable Interviews with 2 00:00:21,396 --> 00:00:24,676 Speaker 1: the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the world's 3 00:00:24,676 --> 00:00:28,796 Speaker 1: biggest problems. My name is Victor Chin. I am the 4 00:00:28,876 --> 00:00:33,676 Speaker 1: executive director for African Youth Initiative Network. I'm from Uganda 5 00:00:33,956 --> 00:00:36,756 Speaker 1: and my solvable is to work hard and end civil 6 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:41,196 Speaker 1: wars in Africa, hopefully in my lifetime. So our guests 7 00:00:41,196 --> 00:00:45,036 Speaker 1: this week is quite a remarkable person. Victor was the 8 00:00:45,116 --> 00:00:48,876 Speaker 1: first Ugandan and the youngest ever African to be nominated 9 00:00:48,916 --> 00:00:51,876 Speaker 1: for the Nobel Peace Prize. That was for his human 10 00:00:51,996 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: rights work. He's basically a peace builder working in parts 11 00:00:56,396 --> 00:00:59,396 Speaker 1: of the world where peace is most needed. There are 12 00:00:59,396 --> 00:01:03,156 Speaker 1: fifty four countries in Africa, and despite a long history 13 00:01:03,276 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 1: of colonialism and the newer and potentially even more deadly 14 00:01:07,436 --> 00:01:11,916 Speaker 1: reality of climate chaos, many African nations are managing to 15 00:01:11,996 --> 00:01:16,996 Speaker 1: flourish today. Though our solvable is the fifteen African countries 16 00:01:17,036 --> 00:01:21,436 Speaker 1: that are currently involved in wars. Victor knows firsthand what 17 00:01:21,556 --> 00:01:23,836 Speaker 1: it's like to come up in a war zone, having 18 00:01:23,876 --> 00:01:26,676 Speaker 1: spent the first twenty one years of his life as 19 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:30,076 Speaker 1: a refugee. He was one of the three million people 20 00:01:30,236 --> 00:01:33,396 Speaker 1: displaced by the civil war that has raged through Uganda 21 00:01:33,476 --> 00:01:37,476 Speaker 1: since the nineteen eighties. That conflict has now spread to 22 00:01:37,556 --> 00:01:42,556 Speaker 1: the neighboring countries of Satsudan, the Central African Republic, and Congo. 23 00:01:43,236 --> 00:01:46,236 Speaker 1: Victor was born in nineteen eighty one during the Ugandan 24 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:49,916 Speaker 1: Civil War, a period when many different rebel groups were fighting, 25 00:01:50,596 --> 00:01:53,236 Speaker 1: and then in nineteen eighty seven, he was only six 26 00:01:53,356 --> 00:01:56,956 Speaker 1: years old and a particular rebel group sprang up in 27 00:01:57,036 --> 00:02:00,236 Speaker 1: northern Uganda, where he lived with his family, a group 28 00:02:00,316 --> 00:02:05,316 Speaker 1: that became notorious worldwide. They called themselves the Lord's Resistance 29 00:02:05,556 --> 00:02:08,996 Speaker 1: Army the lra A, and the l ra A grew 30 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: increasingly violent against civilians, abducting and killing tens of thousands 31 00:02:14,676 --> 00:02:19,236 Speaker 1: of innocent people in northern Uganda and mutilating manny others. 32 00:02:19,276 --> 00:02:24,716 Speaker 1: Their brutality against children was particularly severe. They would abduct 33 00:02:24,796 --> 00:02:28,516 Speaker 1: children and force them to kill, making them into child soldiers. 34 00:02:28,556 --> 00:02:31,916 Speaker 1: That was one of their hallmarks. Into thousand and three, 35 00:02:32,116 --> 00:02:36,916 Speaker 1: Victor's own brother, O'Mara, was abducted by rebels. The family 36 00:02:36,996 --> 00:02:40,436 Speaker 1: suspect Omara was forced to become a soldier, and sadly 37 00:02:40,596 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 1: they never saw him again. Victor's life has been dedicated 38 00:02:45,116 --> 00:02:48,436 Speaker 1: to his community and other victims of terror and conflict, 39 00:02:48,996 --> 00:02:53,316 Speaker 1: namely by founding the African Youth Initiative Network. Even as 40 00:02:53,316 --> 00:02:56,436 Speaker 1: the thirteen year old, he instinctively chose to fight for 41 00:02:56,556 --> 00:03:01,716 Speaker 1: peace when manny around him despaired and took up weapons. Today, 42 00:03:01,756 --> 00:03:06,276 Speaker 1: his organization works to treat both physical and emotional wounds 43 00:03:06,756 --> 00:03:11,156 Speaker 1: and advocates a leadership that always chooses peace. You'll hear 44 00:03:11,196 --> 00:03:14,796 Speaker 1: how in this conversation with Jacob Weisberg. It's a little 45 00:03:14,876 --> 00:03:18,716 Speaker 1: longer than usual episode of Solvable because Victor's story is 46 00:03:18,836 --> 00:03:20,916 Speaker 1: one that we just don't get to hear a lot, 47 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:27,476 Speaker 1: if at all, especially told firsthand and with such grace. Victor, 48 00:03:27,596 --> 00:03:31,676 Speaker 1: what is the problem of civil war and violent conflict 49 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:34,996 Speaker 1: in Africa right now? The problem of civil war and 50 00:03:35,076 --> 00:03:39,476 Speaker 1: violence in Africa right now is manifested in mass movement, 51 00:03:39,676 --> 00:03:43,676 Speaker 1: the refugee crisis all over the continent. How you have 52 00:03:43,796 --> 00:03:49,076 Speaker 1: seen the international media the young people dying trying to 53 00:03:49,196 --> 00:03:53,196 Speaker 1: escape from Africa to Europe. In the Mediterranean Sea, we 54 00:03:53,276 --> 00:03:59,396 Speaker 1: have seen outbreak of preventable diseases which escalate and becomes 55 00:03:59,556 --> 00:04:03,676 Speaker 1: more disasters because humanity is caught up in the struggle 56 00:04:03,756 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: for survival. They can't afford to care for their own 57 00:04:07,436 --> 00:04:10,796 Speaker 1: and we've seen increase is death, you know, due to 58 00:04:10,996 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 1: civil war. We've also seen a lot of xenophobic attack 59 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:17,916 Speaker 1: in South Africa. You know, there's the continent, there's such alleges, 60 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:22,556 Speaker 1: so much in terms of conflict related movement that results 61 00:04:22,556 --> 00:04:28,276 Speaker 1: into more tension, tribal differences, ethnic conflict and so much 62 00:04:28,316 --> 00:04:31,996 Speaker 1: trangles of our properties and in so many ways natural 63 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:35,916 Speaker 1: disasters continues to be difficult to manage because humanity are 64 00:04:35,916 --> 00:04:39,516 Speaker 1: caught up fighting. What are the major wars in Africa 65 00:04:39,636 --> 00:04:43,116 Speaker 1: right now and how many people are affected, how many 66 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: people die in those wars, and how many people die 67 00:04:46,276 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 1: and are made refugees as a result of those wars. 68 00:04:49,076 --> 00:04:51,436 Speaker 1: To even look at it a bit back in the 69 00:04:51,556 --> 00:04:57,196 Speaker 1: history study has always saw that after every twenty years 70 00:04:57,556 --> 00:05:01,316 Speaker 1: massa roseis happens in Africa, especially in the Great Legs. 71 00:05:02,276 --> 00:05:07,276 Speaker 1: We've seen the windows of nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, nineteen 72 00:05:07,316 --> 00:05:10,076 Speaker 1: eighties and nineteen nineties. Night is when we at the 73 00:05:10,156 --> 00:05:15,676 Speaker 1: random general side, they are trustees in the four in Congo, 74 00:05:15,876 --> 00:05:18,676 Speaker 1: in northern Uganda the population went through the civil war 75 00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:22,556 Speaker 1: over twenty years, and Central Africa we have Mali. We 76 00:05:22,636 --> 00:05:26,636 Speaker 1: have Somalia falling apart. So if you look more, especially 77 00:05:26,636 --> 00:05:29,636 Speaker 1: in the Great Legs region, we are in that window 78 00:05:29,756 --> 00:05:34,636 Speaker 1: right now, window of possible Massa trustees. So we are 79 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:40,156 Speaker 1: continue to see the instability in Somalia, the al Shabab conflict. 80 00:05:40,236 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 1: Of course, it's the international community, the African Union working 81 00:05:45,036 --> 00:05:49,596 Speaker 1: towards trying to pacify Somalia by supporting the government. But 82 00:05:49,756 --> 00:05:53,436 Speaker 1: still it's a big and challenging civil war that continues 83 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:57,076 Speaker 1: to have worked not only Somalia but also the entire region. 84 00:05:57,956 --> 00:06:01,996 Speaker 1: And worst we're seeing right now is a continued conflict 85 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 1: in de Raca. Unfortunately, the Congress people have been through 86 00:06:06,596 --> 00:06:10,276 Speaker 1: the worst of the worst in life rich nation, such 87 00:06:10,596 --> 00:06:14,876 Speaker 1: vast potential. The Congress people have never seen a moment 88 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:17,356 Speaker 1: of peace at all, and you wonder how long and 89 00:06:17,476 --> 00:06:21,036 Speaker 1: this score. But also we're seeing, you know, different countries 90 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:24,116 Speaker 1: in the region have Ugandan rebel groups. In Congo, the 91 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:28,796 Speaker 1: ADF doing mastercruitment and is linked now to ISIS, and 92 00:06:28,836 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 1: they're doing recruitment within East Africa and even the Southern 93 00:06:31,996 --> 00:06:34,756 Speaker 1: African countries. And this is growing up to be a 94 00:06:34,876 --> 00:06:39,116 Speaker 1: very potential disasters conflict. But of course you're also aware 95 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:42,476 Speaker 1: of what's going in South Sudan the last five years 96 00:06:42,476 --> 00:06:46,036 Speaker 1: has been so vicious that hundreds of thousands have died, 97 00:06:46,156 --> 00:06:50,036 Speaker 1: millions are displaced. I'm from Northern Uganda where we are 98 00:06:50,036 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 1: doing our work to support post conflict recovery. But also 99 00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:56,836 Speaker 1: this is the region that currently host over one point 100 00:06:56,916 --> 00:07:00,036 Speaker 1: two million refugees from South then from Congo, from Central 101 00:07:00,036 --> 00:07:03,996 Speaker 1: African Republic. You can imagine the pressure. A communister has 102 00:07:03,996 --> 00:07:06,436 Speaker 1: been through war for over twenty years without so much. 103 00:07:07,436 --> 00:07:11,476 Speaker 1: Now it's condition is first to us another million refugees, 104 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:14,956 Speaker 1: so the depression ever stops. So the conflicten souths done. 105 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,556 Speaker 1: You know, in the race in Central African public and 106 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:22,756 Speaker 1: Malle is horrible. Deministration in Malley is not even getting 107 00:07:23,156 --> 00:07:26,316 Speaker 1: better anymore. And of course live alone Libya and you 108 00:07:26,356 --> 00:07:30,156 Speaker 1: know the potential Egypt is just traveling to stabilize. And 109 00:07:30,396 --> 00:07:33,156 Speaker 1: in West Africa, of course there's so much to do 110 00:07:33,196 --> 00:07:36,756 Speaker 1: in terms of historical injustice, historical conflict that has not 111 00:07:36,796 --> 00:07:40,076 Speaker 1: been addressed, and this has got the potential. So the 112 00:07:40,196 --> 00:07:43,476 Speaker 1: number of people dying I can't tell exactly, but so 113 00:07:43,596 --> 00:07:47,596 Speaker 1: many people are dying every day due to war related crisis, 114 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:52,436 Speaker 1: either being killed in battlefields or as a result of war, poverty, disease. 115 00:07:52,796 --> 00:07:54,996 Speaker 1: I want to hear about your story. I know you 116 00:07:55,036 --> 00:07:57,236 Speaker 1: grew up and spent most of the years of your 117 00:07:57,316 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 1: life and a refugee camp. How did you end up there? 118 00:08:00,116 --> 00:08:04,356 Speaker 1: I was born in northern Uganda, in the district Cholera, 119 00:08:05,556 --> 00:08:08,676 Speaker 1: and I was born in nineteen eighty one, just immediately 120 00:08:08,716 --> 00:08:14,876 Speaker 1: after Dictator Idioman was deposed of power. And in that 121 00:08:14,916 --> 00:08:20,076 Speaker 1: community there were more than ten rebel groups operating, including 122 00:08:20,076 --> 00:08:25,076 Speaker 1: the current government was in the bush fighting and where 123 00:08:25,076 --> 00:08:27,836 Speaker 1: I grew up, I could see the only vehicle I 124 00:08:27,876 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 1: saw as a child was a military truck. There's no 125 00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:34,956 Speaker 1: other vehicle. The only flying object the plane I saw 126 00:08:35,156 --> 00:08:38,196 Speaker 1: was their captor, the military captor and jet fighters and 127 00:08:38,356 --> 00:08:42,876 Speaker 1: bombing us and we won. That said, what is going on? 128 00:08:42,956 --> 00:08:46,196 Speaker 1: And how long can disco? So? I was born in conflict, 129 00:08:46,516 --> 00:08:49,716 Speaker 1: I grew up in conflict, and then it went on 130 00:08:49,876 --> 00:08:55,796 Speaker 1: to the community, went into experience, continued to cut rustling 131 00:08:55,836 --> 00:09:00,756 Speaker 1: by never in cultural tribal groups. Then the Lord Decision's 132 00:09:00,836 --> 00:09:03,836 Speaker 1: army emerged and that became the worst of the worst 133 00:09:03,916 --> 00:09:07,836 Speaker 1: in Uganda's history of conflict. It started close to our 134 00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:12,796 Speaker 1: home and we were at the immediate target by the 135 00:09:13,036 --> 00:09:15,436 Speaker 1: lay but also we are the media. Our community was 136 00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:18,236 Speaker 1: the media target by the government battle field, so we 137 00:09:18,356 --> 00:09:21,316 Speaker 1: became the center of battle for both government and a 138 00:09:21,316 --> 00:09:24,076 Speaker 1: lot of resisions, I mean, and this went on. As 139 00:09:24,116 --> 00:09:26,996 Speaker 1: a child, I could see I was wondering how long 140 00:09:27,076 --> 00:09:29,076 Speaker 1: was it going to end? It took us twenty years 141 00:09:29,116 --> 00:09:31,796 Speaker 1: to get out of that. So my growth I grew 142 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:36,116 Speaker 1: up in war. I grew up in the camp. I 143 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 1: spent my childhood, as you know, in the camp. Growing up, 144 00:09:39,076 --> 00:09:41,996 Speaker 1: I studied in the camp. I survived all the war 145 00:09:42,196 --> 00:09:50,836 Speaker 1: related you know, challenges including health, education, feeding, shelter and 146 00:09:51,036 --> 00:09:53,956 Speaker 1: one of the people who spent over seven years eating 147 00:09:53,956 --> 00:09:56,556 Speaker 1: one meal a day. We didn't have food. My parents 148 00:09:56,556 --> 00:10:00,676 Speaker 1: are too poor in terms of education, you know, it 149 00:10:00,716 --> 00:10:03,676 Speaker 1: was even the more challenging. Of course, in conflict, education 150 00:10:03,796 --> 00:10:06,836 Speaker 1: is not the priority. The biggest worry is for every 151 00:10:06,916 --> 00:10:09,996 Speaker 1: child is if I will get the next That was 152 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:14,036 Speaker 1: the most wedding experience as a child, because it was 153 00:10:14,116 --> 00:10:16,556 Speaker 1: always the tough to way that you wake up in 154 00:10:16,556 --> 00:10:19,436 Speaker 1: the morning until four pm, you've got nothing to eat, 155 00:10:19,516 --> 00:10:22,316 Speaker 1: and then you eat until the next day four pm. 156 00:10:22,356 --> 00:10:24,076 Speaker 1: That is the life I grew up in. That's the 157 00:10:24,156 --> 00:10:27,356 Speaker 1: life I survived and I start to struggle with my education, 158 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:31,116 Speaker 1: with my health. I survived. There was twice about outbreak 159 00:10:31,236 --> 00:10:36,076 Speaker 1: in my community and live alone, manigieties, malaria. I went 160 00:10:36,116 --> 00:10:40,436 Speaker 1: through anything that walk on course. And you've talked about 161 00:10:40,516 --> 00:10:45,156 Speaker 1: the cycle of violence and revenge that people who are 162 00:10:45,316 --> 00:10:49,996 Speaker 1: victims of war become warriors and one justice, but it 163 00:10:50,036 --> 00:10:53,636 Speaker 1: perpetuates the cycle of violence. How do you break that cycle? 164 00:10:53,836 --> 00:10:57,076 Speaker 1: To break the cycle of war and violence, it's easy 165 00:10:57,156 --> 00:11:01,236 Speaker 1: said than easy. Then, First of all, walk with so 166 00:11:01,356 --> 00:11:06,396 Speaker 1: much amount of trauma and the trauma needs to be healed, 167 00:11:07,396 --> 00:11:10,676 Speaker 1: if not illed, trauma crits that a war then becomes 168 00:11:10,756 --> 00:11:14,116 Speaker 1: war trauma, trauma, war cycle. You need to get to 169 00:11:14,116 --> 00:11:18,236 Speaker 1: a point of breaking that, and it also becomes generational. 170 00:11:18,756 --> 00:11:23,476 Speaker 1: When children are born in conflict, their parents would always 171 00:11:23,476 --> 00:11:25,836 Speaker 1: be asked why are we being killed? Why are we 172 00:11:25,876 --> 00:11:28,236 Speaker 1: being targeted? And these are the question that most parents 173 00:11:28,236 --> 00:11:31,796 Speaker 1: doesn't have an answers. But then the question comes in 174 00:11:31,996 --> 00:11:34,676 Speaker 1: the parents reach the point of saying, we are suffering 175 00:11:34,716 --> 00:11:38,036 Speaker 1: because of that tribe, we are suffering because of them. 176 00:11:38,116 --> 00:11:41,836 Speaker 1: That's already telling the child who their enemies are. So 177 00:11:41,956 --> 00:11:48,156 Speaker 1: that transgenerational, cross generational transfer of trauma of pain is 178 00:11:48,196 --> 00:11:51,036 Speaker 1: like planting in the new seats of violence in that 179 00:11:51,196 --> 00:11:53,956 Speaker 1: child who's being told who you are, enemies are, so 180 00:11:54,076 --> 00:11:56,556 Speaker 1: you have somebody to hit as soon as you can 181 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:59,316 Speaker 1: understand the world you're growing up with who you are, 182 00:11:59,396 --> 00:12:02,156 Speaker 1: enemies are, with what you want to do next time 183 00:12:02,196 --> 00:12:05,236 Speaker 1: you have opportunity to revenge, to strike back, to let 184 00:12:05,276 --> 00:12:08,556 Speaker 1: them feel the pain everybody. As a child, I wanted 185 00:12:08,596 --> 00:12:11,076 Speaker 1: to study it, become a doctor, to become a journalist, 186 00:12:11,156 --> 00:12:14,636 Speaker 1: to become a you know, a pilot like another person's. 187 00:12:14,636 --> 00:12:19,516 Speaker 1: But when walking, everything turned around. All became about survival. 188 00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:23,556 Speaker 1: You're walking now and all of a sudden, two people 189 00:12:23,636 --> 00:12:26,676 Speaker 1: get blown by landmines right in front of you. You're 190 00:12:26,716 --> 00:12:28,676 Speaker 1: playing with your friends and within a few minutes we 191 00:12:28,796 --> 00:12:30,996 Speaker 1: separated the bat. They are taken and they've never been 192 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:34,396 Speaker 1: seen again. You're just playing football. There was a moment 193 00:12:34,436 --> 00:12:36,676 Speaker 1: when we were playing football. We made our own ball 194 00:12:37,356 --> 00:12:39,556 Speaker 1: because there was no football we were in the camp. 195 00:12:40,196 --> 00:12:42,156 Speaker 1: We bought one hundred of us. We made our own 196 00:12:42,156 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 1: ball and we were kicking, kicking, and one of the 197 00:12:46,076 --> 00:12:50,356 Speaker 1: elders came and so our ball made out of rugs. 198 00:12:50,516 --> 00:12:53,196 Speaker 1: You know, we were playing kicking around hand falling, and 199 00:12:53,236 --> 00:12:56,476 Speaker 1: he came and picked and said, kids, what are you kicking? Said, 200 00:12:56,556 --> 00:12:59,196 Speaker 1: made our own ball. We're very excited. And then when 201 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:03,996 Speaker 1: he unveiled it, he found something wrong. It was a bomb. 202 00:13:04,156 --> 00:13:08,356 Speaker 1: It was unexploded bomb. And then we were told that 203 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:12,676 Speaker 1: this is a bomb. Run. We're took off in many directions, 204 00:13:12,916 --> 00:13:19,836 Speaker 1: crying and shouting, and we're afraid if this bomb blow 205 00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:22,396 Speaker 1: her over one of the devasts, we're going to be dead. 206 00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:26,196 Speaker 1: The question is who is next? Then becomes you. You 207 00:13:26,276 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 1: are the next line. You can be blown off, you 208 00:13:28,316 --> 00:13:32,516 Speaker 1: can walking alone, even be abducted. Every painful moment was 209 00:13:32,556 --> 00:13:35,836 Speaker 1: to see your mom leaving home to fetch water. The 210 00:13:35,996 --> 00:13:38,796 Speaker 1: big fear was will seek him back on my life? 211 00:13:39,556 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 1: Will see not be blown by landlines, will see not 212 00:13:42,836 --> 00:13:45,396 Speaker 1: be wrapped by the man in uniform. So this was 213 00:13:45,476 --> 00:13:50,676 Speaker 1: every child's biggest fear. You know, the feeling of learndliness, powerlessness, 214 00:13:50,796 --> 00:13:53,676 Speaker 1: and you feel unwanted, you feel though you don't belong. 215 00:13:54,156 --> 00:13:56,356 Speaker 1: So this is the kind of spirit, the kind of 216 00:13:56,356 --> 00:14:00,476 Speaker 1: feeling that renews and continues to perpetuate, and you know 217 00:14:01,036 --> 00:14:03,316 Speaker 1: the trend of violence because the child will grown knowing 218 00:14:03,396 --> 00:14:06,396 Speaker 1: that I have to do something to prove to my 219 00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:09,236 Speaker 1: parents that I love them for what they did to 220 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:12,596 Speaker 1: me by retaliating. One of the cruelest aspects this is 221 00:14:13,316 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 1: children who are kidnapped and turned into soldiers. They're victims, 222 00:14:18,676 --> 00:14:23,796 Speaker 1: but they become perpetrators as well. It is very clear, 223 00:14:24,956 --> 00:14:31,556 Speaker 1: almost obvious, that a child victims, if not properly rehabilitated, 224 00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:36,036 Speaker 1: becomes an adult perpetrator. They're so indoctrinated. They are told 225 00:14:36,076 --> 00:14:38,796 Speaker 1: would to kill, how to kill, where to kill, when 226 00:14:38,876 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: to kill, and this is all their land. And once 227 00:14:42,716 --> 00:14:47,196 Speaker 1: a child is misinformed and made to go through experience 228 00:14:47,236 --> 00:14:50,356 Speaker 1: which is so painful. Like Northern Yogana, what I saw, 229 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 1: kids as young as teniers and below were abducted and 230 00:14:55,716 --> 00:14:58,316 Speaker 1: they are forced to kill their own parents before they 231 00:14:58,316 --> 00:15:00,796 Speaker 1: are taken. You don't want to come back home. What 232 00:15:00,876 --> 00:15:02,676 Speaker 1: are you going to do back home? Because you killed 233 00:15:02,756 --> 00:15:05,756 Speaker 1: your own father in front of you had assistance, They 234 00:15:05,756 --> 00:15:08,556 Speaker 1: saw that you're the one hitting, You're the one beating 235 00:15:08,636 --> 00:15:10,916 Speaker 1: until they died, and then they took you away. So 236 00:15:10,996 --> 00:15:13,116 Speaker 1: that kid, when it's in captivity, we never want to 237 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:15,716 Speaker 1: come back home. That is vicious. That is a very 238 00:15:15,796 --> 00:15:18,956 Speaker 1: challenging part and now also comes into the issues of 239 00:15:19,276 --> 00:15:22,796 Speaker 1: the role parents plays. Parents go through too much during war, 240 00:15:23,036 --> 00:15:26,396 Speaker 1: especially women. I know in Africa there's that sense of 241 00:15:26,396 --> 00:15:28,876 Speaker 1: feeling that a man, you must be strong to provide 242 00:15:28,876 --> 00:15:31,396 Speaker 1: for your family, to protect your family. But when you 243 00:15:31,396 --> 00:15:34,396 Speaker 1: are so powerless, there's that moment in war that you 244 00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:37,476 Speaker 1: are too powerless to protect your own and that moment 245 00:15:37,516 --> 00:15:41,436 Speaker 1: of vulnerability is when a lot of men gave up. 246 00:15:41,636 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 1: Either they picked up began to go and fight in 247 00:15:44,156 --> 00:15:50,076 Speaker 1: in being powerless, powerless and hopelessness or the committed society. 248 00:15:50,316 --> 00:15:52,756 Speaker 1: A lot of men died during conflict. A lot of 249 00:15:52,796 --> 00:15:57,276 Speaker 1: women demonstrated much more strength during conflict than men because 250 00:15:57,276 --> 00:15:58,756 Speaker 1: a woman will say, okay, we know we are not 251 00:15:58,796 --> 00:16:01,356 Speaker 1: supposed to be so powerful, we're supposed to be able 252 00:16:01,356 --> 00:16:03,996 Speaker 1: to fast it, and they will do every risk to 253 00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:07,476 Speaker 1: protect their family. But now in the post conflict verity, 254 00:16:08,116 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 1: war is manifest team more in women than men because 255 00:16:12,916 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: throughout all this time for women going through this process, 256 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:20,196 Speaker 1: they took too much. They sold a lot of strength 257 00:16:20,236 --> 00:16:24,076 Speaker 1: and demonstrated, you know, power in the face of adversity. 258 00:16:24,236 --> 00:16:28,716 Speaker 1: But now a lot of men in the post conflict 259 00:16:28,716 --> 00:16:30,716 Speaker 1: are not as affected that women. You know, we can 260 00:16:30,756 --> 00:16:35,796 Speaker 1: see manifesting so heavily in women and the trauma, the pain, 261 00:16:36,556 --> 00:16:38,516 Speaker 1: and this is where the child say, this is the 262 00:16:38,596 --> 00:16:41,436 Speaker 1: reason war is the reason why my mother is going 263 00:16:41,436 --> 00:16:43,876 Speaker 1: through this kind of pain. I have to do something now. 264 00:16:43,916 --> 00:16:47,876 Speaker 1: That's when they become adult perpetrators. They're looking forward to retaliate, 265 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 1: to revenge, to strike back. And that's why I think 266 00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:55,156 Speaker 1: parents or families plays a big role, because world destroys 267 00:16:55,196 --> 00:16:59,436 Speaker 1: the most important institution in families torn a path, society 268 00:16:59,476 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 1: down a path. I want to know what made you, 269 00:17:02,996 --> 00:17:05,276 Speaker 1: growing up in a refugee camp as a young man, 270 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:08,836 Speaker 1: choose the path you did and think about breaking this 271 00:17:09,116 --> 00:17:12,956 Speaker 1: cycle instead of, as you said, the path of despair 272 00:17:13,276 --> 00:17:16,636 Speaker 1: or continuing the cycle of violence and seeking revenge yourself. 273 00:17:17,356 --> 00:17:20,716 Speaker 1: I've seen the best humanity can do and the worst 274 00:17:20,876 --> 00:17:25,116 Speaker 1: humanity can do. I reached a point where I was exhausted. 275 00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:30,716 Speaker 1: I was tired. I was tired of my own insecurity, 276 00:17:31,076 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 1: my fear I was I wasn't sure if I was 277 00:17:33,996 --> 00:17:36,756 Speaker 1: the one was wrong. As a child, I kept on 278 00:17:36,876 --> 00:17:40,676 Speaker 1: asking myself what did we do to deserve all these 279 00:17:40,756 --> 00:17:43,476 Speaker 1: kinds of It would be raining heavier than this, but 280 00:17:43,636 --> 00:17:45,916 Speaker 1: you have to run and sleep in the rain, without tent, 281 00:17:46,036 --> 00:17:49,556 Speaker 1: without cover, without shelter. And this was not for a year. 282 00:17:50,316 --> 00:17:54,596 Speaker 1: We waited for war to end. Took years, took ten years, 283 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:58,356 Speaker 1: over became twenty years. War was still continuing, stronger and stronger. 284 00:17:59,516 --> 00:18:03,276 Speaker 1: But then as a child, it reached a particular moment 285 00:18:03,316 --> 00:18:07,276 Speaker 1: when I think I was on the brink of giving 286 00:18:07,356 --> 00:18:11,876 Speaker 1: up like another kids. I saw my friends who are 287 00:18:11,996 --> 00:18:16,396 Speaker 1: running in and out from Monday to Monday. We every 288 00:18:16,516 --> 00:18:19,676 Speaker 1: next two hours run. You're being chest surviving attack to 289 00:18:19,756 --> 00:18:25,636 Speaker 1: surviving landmines. And life became so complicated, and I saw 290 00:18:25,636 --> 00:18:30,356 Speaker 1: my friends volunteered, somebody volunteered to be adapted. Said, even 291 00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:33,396 Speaker 1: if I stay, I'm not being protected. I have no choice, 292 00:18:33,436 --> 00:18:36,556 Speaker 1: but let me just go. If I go, I'll probably 293 00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:39,076 Speaker 1: have a gun. I'll be in charging my own security. 294 00:18:39,516 --> 00:18:42,356 Speaker 1: I'll kill somebody, or somebody might kill me. This was 295 00:18:42,396 --> 00:18:45,636 Speaker 1: a despair. We went to fetch water in the morning, 296 00:18:46,156 --> 00:18:48,996 Speaker 1: in a group of about eight to ten of us. 297 00:18:49,316 --> 00:18:53,236 Speaker 1: On our way to fetch water, two people in front 298 00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:57,436 Speaker 1: god blown by landmines. Boom. We took off running back 299 00:18:58,956 --> 00:19:03,956 Speaker 1: without a small container jarragon for water. Were crying running 300 00:19:03,956 --> 00:19:09,756 Speaker 1: towards home. When he got home and my mom told 301 00:19:09,756 --> 00:19:12,716 Speaker 1: me to go and pick up some goats because he said, 302 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:15,076 Speaker 1: now that the landman said, that means the rebels are round, 303 00:19:15,156 --> 00:19:17,116 Speaker 1: So take on and and get the goats and bring them. 304 00:19:17,756 --> 00:19:20,556 Speaker 1: And then when er I left my friend at home, 305 00:19:21,676 --> 00:19:23,916 Speaker 1: I went like for a distance on all in all, 306 00:19:23,996 --> 00:19:26,276 Speaker 1: the process took less than five minutes. When I was 307 00:19:26,276 --> 00:19:29,516 Speaker 1: speaking the goat pulling it home, I came and asked 308 00:19:29,516 --> 00:19:32,876 Speaker 1: my mum, where did my friends go? They said, they've 309 00:19:32,916 --> 00:19:36,636 Speaker 1: all been taken away, said by Woo, said the riva 310 00:19:36,716 --> 00:19:41,476 Speaker 1: just took them right now. And that's how I survived 311 00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:46,356 Speaker 1: that man one particular moment, and I I was just lost. 312 00:19:46,516 --> 00:19:48,756 Speaker 1: I said, no in the morning, some who were blown 313 00:19:48,756 --> 00:19:52,796 Speaker 1: by land mine just now. Some are taken already, and 314 00:19:52,876 --> 00:19:57,476 Speaker 1: the question is who next. It became me. I was next, 315 00:19:57,716 --> 00:19:59,836 Speaker 1: and that's when I realized that it was no longer 316 00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:02,196 Speaker 1: far and it was just a matter of time before 317 00:20:02,196 --> 00:20:06,596 Speaker 1: I'm taken. And we Mum said, no, don't mind, it 318 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:09,116 Speaker 1: will be fine. Let us keep on trying as much 319 00:20:09,156 --> 00:20:11,636 Speaker 1: as we can. Then there was all of a sudden 320 00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:15,316 Speaker 1: gunswers we ran and came back. When he came back 321 00:20:15,316 --> 00:20:18,276 Speaker 1: home after a few hours, we found like so many 322 00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:23,876 Speaker 1: dead bodies at home. And I remember my mom shouting 323 00:20:23,876 --> 00:20:27,636 Speaker 1: and crying loud. Who met the gun? That was a statement, 324 00:20:29,756 --> 00:20:34,956 Speaker 1: who met the gun? Who manufactured the gun? Shouting at us, 325 00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:38,356 Speaker 1: look at every one of us. We don't have the question. 326 00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:40,116 Speaker 1: We don't have the answer to the question who made 327 00:20:40,116 --> 00:20:44,036 Speaker 1: the gun? But she kept who made the gun? Why 328 00:20:44,036 --> 00:20:47,796 Speaker 1: a gun coming to kill children? Women? What did they do? 329 00:20:47,996 --> 00:20:51,996 Speaker 1: Who made the gun? That was like she was crying 330 00:20:52,036 --> 00:20:55,436 Speaker 1: and you could tell she was powerless. We didn't have 331 00:20:55,516 --> 00:20:59,156 Speaker 1: answer to a question, but that was a repeated question, 332 00:20:59,196 --> 00:21:03,676 Speaker 1: and who met the gun. The next day, so the 333 00:21:03,756 --> 00:21:07,916 Speaker 1: government military track came and everybody was running towards the 334 00:21:07,956 --> 00:21:10,716 Speaker 1: camp center, and I asked, Mom, said, what is that. 335 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:15,076 Speaker 1: They said that the government has brought a lot of weapons, 336 00:21:15,116 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 1: and they're saying anybody who can shoot a gunslow to 337 00:21:17,956 --> 00:21:22,556 Speaker 1: shoot a gun. So they even brought the child friendly 338 00:21:22,676 --> 00:21:27,676 Speaker 1: uniform military uniform. So it meant that women, men, children, 339 00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:30,116 Speaker 1: everybody who can fire the gun should go and pick 340 00:21:30,196 --> 00:21:33,316 Speaker 1: up the uniform. I saw people running and I told Mom, 341 00:21:33,356 --> 00:21:37,476 Speaker 1: I'm not going, so yes, don't go. So my remaining friends, 342 00:21:37,796 --> 00:21:41,756 Speaker 1: out of despair, picked up the uniform, picked up the weapons. 343 00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:44,196 Speaker 1: They were trained for a few hours. They were deployed 344 00:21:44,676 --> 00:21:47,876 Speaker 1: to fight the rebels. You were how old? I think 345 00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:50,956 Speaker 1: I was thirteen. Some were younger than me actually went 346 00:21:51,036 --> 00:21:53,916 Speaker 1: and pick up the uniform. We didn't have clothing. Some 347 00:21:54,156 --> 00:21:57,196 Speaker 1: went because they wanted something to wear. Myself, I had 348 00:21:57,236 --> 00:22:00,276 Speaker 1: only one pair of shot. There was nothing else. So 349 00:22:01,956 --> 00:22:05,236 Speaker 1: when I told myself I'm not going, and then said, perfect, 350 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:10,196 Speaker 1: don't go. When they went, kids as young and women 351 00:22:10,276 --> 00:22:12,636 Speaker 1: with children in their back became the guns. They were 352 00:22:12,676 --> 00:22:17,316 Speaker 1: trained and order. The rebel waited for them, were laid 353 00:22:17,356 --> 00:22:20,956 Speaker 1: them and pushed them, disarmed them. Some who try to 354 00:22:21,116 --> 00:22:24,876 Speaker 1: just were killed somewhere their hands, nose, he has lips 355 00:22:24,876 --> 00:22:29,956 Speaker 1: cut off, and some were taken. Those whose world you 356 00:22:29,996 --> 00:22:32,916 Speaker 1: know this figure. Those who were mutilated were sent back 357 00:22:32,956 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 1: home with their body parts at turn. Take this to 358 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:39,716 Speaker 1: take government. Take it to seven. This was a message 359 00:22:39,716 --> 00:22:44,116 Speaker 1: from Lay. In the evening, there was crying all over 360 00:22:44,156 --> 00:22:46,356 Speaker 1: the camp, and I said, this is it. How long 361 00:22:46,396 --> 00:22:49,316 Speaker 1: can disco? The next day I said I'm not going 362 00:22:49,356 --> 00:22:52,156 Speaker 1: to sit and watch. When I did, I went and 363 00:22:52,276 --> 00:22:55,196 Speaker 1: I sat three hundred meters away from the child soldiers 364 00:22:55,236 --> 00:22:59,116 Speaker 1: recruitment center, and I started pushing my friends who were 365 00:22:59,116 --> 00:23:02,116 Speaker 1: coming to join, because they said, you come, come, everybody 366 00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:05,716 Speaker 1: was out of frustration who were coming. I would stand there, 367 00:23:06,356 --> 00:23:08,996 Speaker 1: I would stop them, talk, don't go, You'll be killed. 368 00:23:09,436 --> 00:23:14,036 Speaker 1: People that I was joking. I became hated by some 369 00:23:14,116 --> 00:23:18,196 Speaker 1: of them. My name also future to the rebel camp 370 00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:22,836 Speaker 1: that I was the one discouraging young people from joining them. 371 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:25,436 Speaker 1: My name was also with the government troops that I 372 00:23:25,516 --> 00:23:29,476 Speaker 1: was the campaigning discouraging patriotic young people want to protect 373 00:23:29,476 --> 00:23:33,156 Speaker 1: their community. And for the first time both rebels and 374 00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:35,556 Speaker 1: the government troops from their common enemy that was me. 375 00:23:36,836 --> 00:23:39,916 Speaker 1: It went on to become so difficult and so complicated. 376 00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:45,276 Speaker 1: We were struggling in all ways with education. My parents 377 00:23:45,316 --> 00:23:47,916 Speaker 1: couldn't even afford to buy a pencil. They were that poor. 378 00:23:48,476 --> 00:23:51,156 Speaker 1: And the worst of the worst came. I lost my 379 00:23:51,236 --> 00:23:54,956 Speaker 1: mom when she was started by malaria. There's no medicine, 380 00:23:55,276 --> 00:24:00,916 Speaker 1: and the road to town, which is about twenty five kilometers, 381 00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:05,076 Speaker 1: was blocked by several camps of the rebel. Rebel camps, 382 00:24:05,436 --> 00:24:08,036 Speaker 1: we tried as much as we could to get medicine 383 00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:12,636 Speaker 1: for a mom. There's no single government health centers working, 384 00:24:13,236 --> 00:24:17,476 Speaker 1: no private health center. We didn't even have money. There's nothing. 385 00:24:17,836 --> 00:24:21,636 Speaker 1: Then my brother, whom we followed, was two years older 386 00:24:21,676 --> 00:24:23,316 Speaker 1: than me. We sent him to town. That can you 387 00:24:23,356 --> 00:24:27,236 Speaker 1: go and pick up medicine from the government hospital in town? 388 00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:30,596 Speaker 1: He had to walk through the bush. Took him almost 389 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:33,796 Speaker 1: twelve hours to go through the bush from Holli morning 390 00:24:33,836 --> 00:24:36,236 Speaker 1: when they still dark to late night when they still dark. 391 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 1: When he got to town and he went to the 392 00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:41,516 Speaker 1: government hospital and said that our mom is very sick 393 00:24:41,716 --> 00:24:44,036 Speaker 1: and we don't have we don't know, we don't have 394 00:24:44,076 --> 00:24:46,716 Speaker 1: any means to bring up. We don't have a bicycle. Then, 395 00:24:48,156 --> 00:24:50,876 Speaker 1: so we have come to get medicine. And then the 396 00:24:50,916 --> 00:24:52,996 Speaker 1: government also told him that no, we have to pay 397 00:24:53,236 --> 00:24:56,436 Speaker 1: an equivalent of half a dollar to get medicine. He 398 00:24:56,516 --> 00:24:59,396 Speaker 1: didn't have the money went back home without So when 399 00:24:59,436 --> 00:25:01,796 Speaker 1: my brother went back and said, we did not manage, 400 00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:05,676 Speaker 1: so maybe we should take our mom get away of 401 00:25:05,716 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 1: taking her to the hospital, the road was blocked nowhere 402 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:11,836 Speaker 1: called no bicycle, no nothing. We had to make some 403 00:25:11,956 --> 00:25:14,676 Speaker 1: reads to carry her through the bush to take her 404 00:25:14,676 --> 00:25:18,556 Speaker 1: to the hospital. But we tried our best as our children, 405 00:25:18,876 --> 00:25:22,316 Speaker 1: taking her through distance a little bit. But when he 406 00:25:22,396 --> 00:25:24,876 Speaker 1: went through, there a moment when we almost stepped on 407 00:25:25,076 --> 00:25:28,756 Speaker 1: landmines went through our bushes. We could we survived and 408 00:25:28,876 --> 00:25:31,956 Speaker 1: our mom saw that our health was deteriorating. It's not 409 00:25:32,076 --> 00:25:34,716 Speaker 1: easy anymore. And then he said, I know you're trying 410 00:25:34,756 --> 00:25:38,236 Speaker 1: your best to take care of my health, but don't 411 00:25:38,236 --> 00:25:41,196 Speaker 1: mind about my health, mind about your security. I don't 412 00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:44,036 Speaker 1: think i'll make it. Take me back home. We took 413 00:25:44,076 --> 00:25:48,316 Speaker 1: her back and she went on. So that was difficult, 414 00:25:48,596 --> 00:25:51,396 Speaker 1: very very difficult. Of course, as a family we remained 415 00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:53,916 Speaker 1: so solid. The children were much stronger we the children 416 00:25:53,956 --> 00:25:57,196 Speaker 1: were stronger than our own. Our father was so depressed 417 00:25:57,236 --> 00:25:59,916 Speaker 1: and it was on suicide watch because it didn't have 418 00:25:59,956 --> 00:26:02,836 Speaker 1: anything to do. It was lost, it was powerless. It 419 00:26:02,996 --> 00:26:07,556 Speaker 1: was it was unable to do anything. In two thousand three, 420 00:26:08,676 --> 00:26:13,036 Speaker 1: after struggling so hard to survive, to leave my brother 421 00:26:13,156 --> 00:26:16,716 Speaker 1: whom we sent to pick our mother the medicine, him 422 00:26:16,796 --> 00:26:19,756 Speaker 1: and I went actually to the village so we had 423 00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:23,396 Speaker 1: some two house and we wanted to pick it up 424 00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:26,636 Speaker 1: and we rode on the same bicycle with him for 425 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:28,756 Speaker 1: the first time I worked for had bought a bicycle, 426 00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:31,156 Speaker 1: and that was the first bicycle in our family I 427 00:26:31,236 --> 00:26:33,516 Speaker 1: bought for him, and he was a very happy man 428 00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:37,036 Speaker 1: that day. It was because it was also a priest, 429 00:26:37,116 --> 00:26:40,716 Speaker 1: praying always for the people in the camp. We went 430 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:42,716 Speaker 1: together with him at home. We spent the night in 431 00:26:42,796 --> 00:26:47,156 Speaker 1: the same house, the same building, and in the morning said, 432 00:26:47,356 --> 00:26:49,636 Speaker 1: now the road is not very safe. Let me walk 433 00:26:49,716 --> 00:26:51,956 Speaker 1: ahead of you with the cow and another young man. 434 00:26:51,996 --> 00:26:54,996 Speaker 1: Then he follows the bicycle because from the same family 435 00:26:55,036 --> 00:26:57,236 Speaker 1: would be very rescue for us to walk together. Two 436 00:26:57,316 --> 00:27:00,596 Speaker 1: kilometers away from home, we entered the ambush, so the 437 00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:03,556 Speaker 1: rebel started chasing us. But as we were walking, there 438 00:27:03,636 --> 00:27:06,396 Speaker 1: was another woman walking behind us, like five hundred meters 439 00:27:06,996 --> 00:27:09,836 Speaker 1: in the road, and she saw us being chessed by 440 00:27:09,836 --> 00:27:14,036 Speaker 1: the rebel, me and my friend and the two cows, 441 00:27:14,076 --> 00:27:17,516 Speaker 1: and ran back home and said, those kids are already taken. 442 00:27:17,596 --> 00:27:20,676 Speaker 1: I saw them being chessed and they were so un 443 00:27:20,756 --> 00:27:22,956 Speaker 1: rebeled with a gun chasing us, and I said, no, 444 00:27:22,996 --> 00:27:25,276 Speaker 1: we're all going to stop until they shoot us, and 445 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:28,076 Speaker 1: we kept on running. We ran across the valley and 446 00:27:28,116 --> 00:27:30,676 Speaker 1: then the rebel stopped, so we were not taken. Black 447 00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:34,036 Speaker 1: Play my brother, upon hearing that we were taken, he 448 00:27:34,156 --> 00:27:36,556 Speaker 1: was panicking and freaking wanted to come, and the soldiers 449 00:27:36,556 --> 00:27:39,876 Speaker 1: stopped him said no, don't go. If they're taken, we 450 00:27:39,876 --> 00:27:42,876 Speaker 1: shall get away of recovering them. If not, let them go, 451 00:27:42,956 --> 00:27:45,196 Speaker 1: but you remain for me. I was also on the 452 00:27:45,236 --> 00:27:47,716 Speaker 1: other side of the bridge, afraid that my brother was 453 00:27:47,716 --> 00:27:50,556 Speaker 1: going to come and enter the ambles. There was no phone, Nora. 454 00:27:50,916 --> 00:27:56,636 Speaker 1: The only road we had was blocked at night. When 455 00:27:56,676 --> 00:27:59,156 Speaker 1: the soldiers told him nobody's going to go to town, 456 00:27:59,156 --> 00:28:01,676 Speaker 1: we were blocking the road. The rebel came and took 457 00:28:01,756 --> 00:28:07,516 Speaker 1: him on the tenth of December two thousand and three. Unfortunate, 458 00:28:07,596 --> 00:28:10,076 Speaker 1: up to now, we has not come back. He was 459 00:28:10,116 --> 00:28:14,956 Speaker 1: abducted together with my two cousins and other closer family members. 460 00:28:15,596 --> 00:28:18,876 Speaker 1: They all never came back, and that was the moment 461 00:28:18,916 --> 00:28:25,316 Speaker 1: I was just lost. I had all the wishes in mind. 462 00:28:25,356 --> 00:28:30,356 Speaker 1: If I had a gun, I would have probably attacked 463 00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:32,796 Speaker 1: the rebel myself. I was going to have a one 464 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:38,156 Speaker 1: man army. I had other wishes that if I may 465 00:28:38,156 --> 00:28:40,716 Speaker 1: be a made a mistake by not picking up the gun, 466 00:28:41,516 --> 00:28:44,396 Speaker 1: by not becoming a soldier. But something in me kept 467 00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:48,036 Speaker 1: on telling me that no, no, no, carry on and 468 00:28:49,036 --> 00:28:53,036 Speaker 1: your choice to be peaceful was right. So I started 469 00:28:53,116 --> 00:28:55,676 Speaker 1: walking to the camp. I would just walk like I 470 00:28:55,716 --> 00:28:58,676 Speaker 1: was lost. I was mentally and well. I think I 471 00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:02,836 Speaker 1: was also angry and still wondering what to do. Walking 472 00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:07,556 Speaker 1: through the camp, I would see people children who lost 473 00:29:07,596 --> 00:29:11,276 Speaker 1: both parents were in the queue for food aid. They 474 00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:13,316 Speaker 1: would be kicked out. The sick people would be kicked 475 00:29:13,356 --> 00:29:16,556 Speaker 1: out of the line. I was angry that people were 476 00:29:16,596 --> 00:29:18,396 Speaker 1: kicking them out. I feel like I wanted to like 477 00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:21,116 Speaker 1: fight them physically. Why are you kicking the most vulnerable 478 00:29:21,156 --> 00:29:23,756 Speaker 1: people out of line? Because the only people were strong 479 00:29:23,836 --> 00:29:26,676 Speaker 1: enough could get food. It was always a scaffle and 480 00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:29,476 Speaker 1: I started somewhere from nowhere. I started acting like a 481 00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:32,156 Speaker 1: weird person. I would go and pick these people were 482 00:29:32,196 --> 00:29:35,196 Speaker 1: weak and sick, put them in line, and I said, no, 483 00:29:35,396 --> 00:29:38,556 Speaker 1: you touch them. I'll deal with you until they get food. 484 00:29:39,356 --> 00:29:41,836 Speaker 1: I'll not leave. People saw me and say, what is 485 00:29:41,876 --> 00:29:43,996 Speaker 1: this guy doing? Who is he anyway, He's coming from 486 00:29:44,036 --> 00:29:46,036 Speaker 1: a different camp. What is he doing? But I left 487 00:29:46,036 --> 00:29:48,316 Speaker 1: it the next day, but at least something was burning 488 00:29:48,396 --> 00:29:50,356 Speaker 1: in me. That's why I went on to form this 489 00:29:50,516 --> 00:29:54,436 Speaker 1: organization called Africa You finished the Network because I was lost. 490 00:29:54,476 --> 00:29:57,716 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about peace. People didn't understand. When 491 00:29:57,756 --> 00:30:01,196 Speaker 1: I started the work with the organization, there was no money. 492 00:30:01,836 --> 00:30:04,476 Speaker 1: For two years, I was struggling to look for asking 493 00:30:04,516 --> 00:30:07,756 Speaker 1: people can give us two hundred dollars five hundred dollars funding. 494 00:30:08,316 --> 00:30:10,396 Speaker 1: They said, no, we are not here to give you money. 495 00:30:10,436 --> 00:30:13,476 Speaker 1: But you started it in one camp yeah, And did 496 00:30:13,476 --> 00:30:16,236 Speaker 1: people join you and work with you? Yeah. I started 497 00:30:16,236 --> 00:30:18,956 Speaker 1: in one camp. I went on to another camp doing 498 00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:22,676 Speaker 1: eloping these people and then said, Okay, maybe what I'm 499 00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:24,316 Speaker 1: doing is right. So what I need to do is 500 00:30:24,316 --> 00:30:28,236 Speaker 1: to now have a formal institutional backing. People become so 501 00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:31,716 Speaker 1: suspicious if you have good intention in a community where 502 00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:33,876 Speaker 1: violence is the order of the day. That was so 503 00:30:33,956 --> 00:30:36,716 Speaker 1: strange that there was somebody was so kind that all 504 00:30:36,756 --> 00:30:39,996 Speaker 1: the international engines who had all the money, all the 505 00:30:40,156 --> 00:30:43,956 Speaker 1: big money, they never gave us anything. They all said, no, 506 00:30:44,116 --> 00:30:46,236 Speaker 1: we are not here to support, we are here to 507 00:30:46,356 --> 00:30:50,156 Speaker 1: allow other people. After we started working talking about peace 508 00:30:50,556 --> 00:30:54,596 Speaker 1: meeting formally abducted meeting for my child's soldiers and families, 509 00:30:54,756 --> 00:30:56,796 Speaker 1: people told us, why are you talking about peace that 510 00:30:56,836 --> 00:30:59,636 Speaker 1: you've never seen? We kind of talk about peace with 511 00:30:59,676 --> 00:31:02,476 Speaker 1: all these war wounds on our body. I could understand 512 00:31:02,516 --> 00:31:05,076 Speaker 1: their pain, I could understand their fear. In one of 513 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:07,316 Speaker 1: the incidents, I was talking to the young people, I 514 00:31:07,476 --> 00:31:10,596 Speaker 1: was cancelingde this young man who told me his story 515 00:31:11,476 --> 00:31:14,116 Speaker 1: how it was abducted, and what it was told to do, 516 00:31:14,676 --> 00:31:17,316 Speaker 1: how he killed other people, how he abducted other people. 517 00:31:17,796 --> 00:31:20,356 Speaker 1: And there was one particular story that he told. It 518 00:31:20,556 --> 00:31:23,716 Speaker 1: was actually talking about how we operated in my home area, 519 00:31:23,836 --> 00:31:26,556 Speaker 1: and he went on to talk about the church because 520 00:31:26,556 --> 00:31:28,756 Speaker 1: we had built a church at home. Then said, yeah, 521 00:31:28,756 --> 00:31:31,316 Speaker 1: in that camp. Actually we used to hang around the 522 00:31:31,396 --> 00:31:35,116 Speaker 1: church and that church was exactly in our home we 523 00:31:35,156 --> 00:31:38,196 Speaker 1: built it. Then I went on to probably more and 524 00:31:38,236 --> 00:31:42,716 Speaker 1: he explained one particular situation, how we abducted, what they did, 525 00:31:42,796 --> 00:31:45,316 Speaker 1: how they came and made sure that the soldiers who 526 00:31:45,316 --> 00:31:48,436 Speaker 1: were sleeping in the church, which was photometers away from 527 00:31:48,476 --> 00:31:51,396 Speaker 1: the house where people were sleeping, would be guarded, would 528 00:31:51,396 --> 00:31:54,916 Speaker 1: not be allowed to know what was going on. He 529 00:31:55,236 --> 00:31:59,796 Speaker 1: explained how we abducted my own brother. So he explained 530 00:31:59,836 --> 00:32:02,836 Speaker 1: how he took my brother. It was a very difficult encounter, 531 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:06,076 Speaker 1: how the tide him, how they made him carry loads, 532 00:32:06,116 --> 00:32:09,876 Speaker 1: and how they tried to cross the water, and majority 533 00:32:09,916 --> 00:32:12,236 Speaker 1: of them didn't know how to swim, And I knew 534 00:32:12,236 --> 00:32:14,436 Speaker 1: my brother didn't know how to swim, so I when 535 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:17,476 Speaker 1: you talked about that moment of forcing them to swim, 536 00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:20,676 Speaker 1: yet they didn't how to swim with lots of luggage 537 00:32:20,716 --> 00:32:23,956 Speaker 1: on their head. I just said, no, I don't want 538 00:32:23,996 --> 00:32:25,996 Speaker 1: to know what exactly happened to my brother. I did 539 00:32:25,996 --> 00:32:28,316 Speaker 1: not tell him. You didn't tell him. I did not 540 00:32:28,436 --> 00:32:30,196 Speaker 1: tell you realize it was your brother? Yeah, I did 541 00:32:30,196 --> 00:32:33,236 Speaker 1: not realize. And I told him, can we stop the 542 00:32:33,316 --> 00:32:35,836 Speaker 1: discussion and I have some emergency. Can I come back tomorrow? 543 00:32:35,836 --> 00:32:38,236 Speaker 1: Then they continue, They said, yeah, of course you can 544 00:32:38,316 --> 00:32:41,316 Speaker 1: go and come back. I was freaking out. I was 545 00:32:41,756 --> 00:32:44,236 Speaker 1: I was darken. It was I didn't know what to do. 546 00:32:44,476 --> 00:32:46,716 Speaker 1: I wanted to cry, I couldn't cry. I was chalking 547 00:32:46,716 --> 00:32:50,796 Speaker 1: in pain and shocked in disbelief what I learned about 548 00:32:50,836 --> 00:32:55,236 Speaker 1: my family fate. In the morning, I went back to 549 00:32:55,276 --> 00:32:57,636 Speaker 1: the kid again, I said, can we continue talking because 550 00:32:57,636 --> 00:32:59,316 Speaker 1: I also wanted to know what happened to my brother. 551 00:33:00,716 --> 00:33:03,796 Speaker 1: When we started talking, it how the money to cross 552 00:33:04,636 --> 00:33:07,956 Speaker 1: the river, and they went to the field, They went 553 00:33:07,996 --> 00:33:09,836 Speaker 1: to the primary school where they had so many other 554 00:33:09,916 --> 00:33:15,076 Speaker 1: rebel groups assembling, and with comparing the abducted numbers of people. 555 00:33:15,956 --> 00:33:19,636 Speaker 1: So then how they tried There were people who tried 556 00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:21,716 Speaker 1: to escape. They were killing them in the in the 557 00:33:21,836 --> 00:33:25,316 Speaker 1: in the playground, and I just again they couldn't handle 558 00:33:25,396 --> 00:33:29,356 Speaker 1: that story anymore, and I said, Okay, this is it. 559 00:33:29,756 --> 00:33:32,036 Speaker 1: Let's let's stop now. I'll come back after a week. 560 00:33:32,076 --> 00:33:35,196 Speaker 1: Then you can continue discussing something else, because the story 561 00:33:35,236 --> 00:33:38,316 Speaker 1: would always be heavy. Is innocent is a child? It 562 00:33:38,476 --> 00:33:40,996 Speaker 1: was never a commander because as a commander you have 563 00:33:41,236 --> 00:33:44,716 Speaker 1: command responsibility, but as the commander, you have no choice 564 00:33:44,716 --> 00:33:47,316 Speaker 1: about to do what you're told to do. Something. Go 565 00:33:47,356 --> 00:33:49,196 Speaker 1: back to him, go back to you. It could be 566 00:33:49,196 --> 00:33:51,476 Speaker 1: a good opportunity for you to work with somebody who 567 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:53,916 Speaker 1: probably would be a good tool for you to mobilize 568 00:33:53,916 --> 00:33:56,916 Speaker 1: other people like him. I went back after a few days. 569 00:33:56,996 --> 00:33:58,436 Speaker 1: I met with him and I said, I want to 570 00:33:58,476 --> 00:34:00,636 Speaker 1: work with you. Said, I don't care about your level 571 00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:03,196 Speaker 1: of education, but all I care about is your heart. 572 00:34:03,276 --> 00:34:05,836 Speaker 1: You have such a good heart. You've been through too much, 573 00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:09,596 Speaker 1: but you're so strong. I think you can talk to 574 00:34:09,756 --> 00:34:12,116 Speaker 1: and work a lot to people who have been through 575 00:34:12,756 --> 00:34:16,596 Speaker 1: terrible life like you. That moment of giving a handwritten 576 00:34:16,996 --> 00:34:20,756 Speaker 1: appointment letter to this young man, promising to pay him 577 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:24,956 Speaker 1: an equivalent of eighty dollars a month, I've never felt 578 00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:29,636 Speaker 1: anything like that. The process of picking the paper, handing 579 00:34:29,676 --> 00:34:32,276 Speaker 1: it over to him, and saying that I want to 580 00:34:32,276 --> 00:34:34,796 Speaker 1: work with you. I'm appoint to giving your appointment to 581 00:34:34,836 --> 00:34:37,916 Speaker 1: become one of our counselors, will train you to even 582 00:34:37,956 --> 00:34:42,436 Speaker 1: to become better and better. I felt the heaviest lord 583 00:34:42,796 --> 00:34:46,996 Speaker 1: of pain, of fear, of the torment felt of me. 584 00:34:47,196 --> 00:34:51,036 Speaker 1: You know, for the first time, I became myself. By 585 00:34:51,836 --> 00:34:57,156 Speaker 1: handing over that trust, that love, that care, that kindness 586 00:34:57,156 --> 00:35:00,436 Speaker 1: towards my brother's a doctor, I felt at peace with 587 00:35:00,476 --> 00:35:04,436 Speaker 1: myself and I felt at peace with him. I've started 588 00:35:04,436 --> 00:35:07,036 Speaker 1: feeling at peace with the world. To me, that was 589 00:35:07,236 --> 00:35:11,836 Speaker 1: the most powerful moment of my life. And I today 590 00:35:11,876 --> 00:35:14,316 Speaker 1: he works with us, he still works with you. Yeah, 591 00:35:14,356 --> 00:35:16,876 Speaker 1: he doesn't know that. He doesn't know that he that 592 00:35:16,996 --> 00:35:19,836 Speaker 1: he was the abductor of your brother. I've not told him. Yeah. 593 00:35:19,956 --> 00:35:23,876 Speaker 1: And did you ever find out what became of your brother? No? 594 00:35:24,876 --> 00:35:28,476 Speaker 1: I tried a lot. I was once working on the radio. 595 00:35:29,636 --> 00:35:32,276 Speaker 1: One of the formally abducted came and said, are you Victor? 596 00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:36,676 Speaker 1: Said yes, we used to listen to your program on 597 00:35:36,796 --> 00:35:39,396 Speaker 1: radio because I was doing a dollar sense sexual reproductive health. 598 00:35:41,236 --> 00:35:42,836 Speaker 1: And then he used to listen to your program on 599 00:35:42,956 --> 00:35:46,916 Speaker 1: radio in the bush. And then did you have a 600 00:35:46,956 --> 00:35:50,996 Speaker 1: bread who was abducted? Said yes, so the one day 601 00:35:50,996 --> 00:35:54,596 Speaker 1: he was listening to you and he was crying as 602 00:35:54,636 --> 00:35:58,716 Speaker 1: I was listening to your voice, and I said, okay, 603 00:35:59,356 --> 00:36:03,436 Speaker 1: what happened? Then said, I don't know what happened because 604 00:36:03,636 --> 00:36:06,276 Speaker 1: as we listened to the radio, all of a sudden 605 00:36:06,316 --> 00:36:08,996 Speaker 1: there was a government helicopter came and said that randomly 606 00:36:09,116 --> 00:36:12,676 Speaker 1: bombing us. There, a lot of children were adapted, a 607 00:36:12,676 --> 00:36:14,396 Speaker 1: lot of people got killed. I don't know what happened 608 00:36:14,396 --> 00:36:16,436 Speaker 1: to him. I never saw him again. We all run 609 00:36:16,516 --> 00:36:19,276 Speaker 1: in different directions. So that was the last day I 610 00:36:19,316 --> 00:36:22,716 Speaker 1: saw him, and that was the last information had about 611 00:36:25,556 --> 00:36:29,596 Speaker 1: the victor. Tell me about your work today, how the 612 00:36:29,716 --> 00:36:32,556 Speaker 1: organization is ground, and what you're doing and where you're 613 00:36:32,556 --> 00:36:36,036 Speaker 1: doing it. We say it can we use our pain 614 00:36:36,876 --> 00:36:40,596 Speaker 1: transform it into something good to helop us built ourself 615 00:36:41,236 --> 00:36:43,596 Speaker 1: and then we use that story to helop Us build 616 00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:47,276 Speaker 1: the African Youth Inititive Network. And since then we've been 617 00:36:47,676 --> 00:36:54,676 Speaker 1: working to support medical reabilitation of victims of mutilations of gunshots, trauma, 618 00:36:54,756 --> 00:36:58,916 Speaker 1: healing victims of sexual violence. It's ongoing. Actually, up to 619 00:36:58,996 --> 00:37:03,196 Speaker 1: now we still have ongoing medical sidebo comes to conduct. 620 00:37:03,956 --> 00:37:06,116 Speaker 1: Is now about twenty two thousand people that we have 621 00:37:06,196 --> 00:37:10,596 Speaker 1: supported those whose lips, nose, ears were cut off, amputated, 622 00:37:10,676 --> 00:37:14,996 Speaker 1: sexual abuse and all that. We have a group of 623 00:37:15,276 --> 00:37:18,996 Speaker 1: forty two young people and working with permanently employed with us. 624 00:37:20,276 --> 00:37:25,236 Speaker 1: Half of them are educated their degree olders, others captive 625 00:37:25,316 --> 00:37:28,676 Speaker 1: and masters, but half of them are not educated. There 626 00:37:28,716 --> 00:37:30,716 Speaker 1: are people when you go to my office you'll find 627 00:37:31,156 --> 00:37:33,676 Speaker 1: there have no lips, they have no ears, they have 628 00:37:33,716 --> 00:37:38,756 Speaker 1: no hands, but they're doing terrific work. Their experience compares 629 00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:42,676 Speaker 1: to no degrees in the world. They're wonderful people whose 630 00:37:42,676 --> 00:37:49,476 Speaker 1: stories empowers themselves, empowers harders. Not until people heal physically 631 00:37:49,556 --> 00:37:52,916 Speaker 1: and emotionally, it will always be difficult to talk about 632 00:37:52,956 --> 00:37:57,636 Speaker 1: peace and justice unforgiveness. Because we have healed people, it 633 00:37:57,716 --> 00:38:00,756 Speaker 1: has opened for us the doors now to work with 634 00:38:00,876 --> 00:38:06,956 Speaker 1: young people, mobilize and train them as leaders in peace, 635 00:38:07,516 --> 00:38:12,596 Speaker 1: you know, in reconciliation, in mediation and conflict prevention. This 636 00:38:12,676 --> 00:38:17,516 Speaker 1: is what we're doing with the young right now. In 637 00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:19,556 Speaker 1: other parts of the continent. We do a lot of 638 00:38:19,996 --> 00:38:24,156 Speaker 1: continent wide exchange programs working with the young people. It's 639 00:38:24,196 --> 00:38:27,196 Speaker 1: more about the focus. How can we plant in the spirit, 640 00:38:27,316 --> 00:38:30,796 Speaker 1: the seeds and the culture of peace among the young generation. 641 00:38:31,316 --> 00:38:37,476 Speaker 1: How can we support healing, reintegration, but also support community 642 00:38:38,636 --> 00:38:42,356 Speaker 1: efforts towards reconciliation. In addition to that, also work to 643 00:38:42,436 --> 00:38:46,556 Speaker 1: promote the international criminal justice. Who've been promoting a lot 644 00:38:46,596 --> 00:38:51,236 Speaker 1: of the isec the International Criminal Court to prosecute, to 645 00:38:51,316 --> 00:38:55,436 Speaker 1: mobilize victims as witnesses before the court. We are happy 646 00:38:55,516 --> 00:38:58,876 Speaker 1: and frustrated at the same time because the whole thing 647 00:38:58,916 --> 00:39:02,116 Speaker 1: we agreed up front was any move to ensure victims 648 00:39:02,116 --> 00:39:05,556 Speaker 1: get justice would support it. We supported iscs so much 649 00:39:06,396 --> 00:39:08,436 Speaker 1: and still I now reach a point of saying that 650 00:39:08,476 --> 00:39:12,036 Speaker 1: for the sake of justice, trial must be bad at home. 651 00:39:12,316 --> 00:39:16,396 Speaker 1: And when you talk about the vision of ending violent 652 00:39:16,516 --> 00:39:20,556 Speaker 1: conflict in all of Africa, is it really about this 653 00:39:20,716 --> 00:39:25,796 Speaker 1: movement spreading? We're talking about bringing the international system, the 654 00:39:25,836 --> 00:39:31,636 Speaker 1: international framework, normative frameworks, and you and all those players 655 00:39:31,636 --> 00:39:35,236 Speaker 1: on board and bring on the same table the traditional 656 00:39:35,356 --> 00:39:39,356 Speaker 1: African approaches. They were born too, you know, the things 657 00:39:39,396 --> 00:39:42,836 Speaker 1: that have held the continent together. If we bring them 658 00:39:42,876 --> 00:39:46,676 Speaker 1: together and integrate them, then you can say, who are 659 00:39:46,716 --> 00:39:51,036 Speaker 1: they players in peace building? It's not only religious leaders, 660 00:39:51,036 --> 00:39:54,676 Speaker 1: it's not only elders. It's not politician, but it's politician, 661 00:39:54,876 --> 00:39:58,516 Speaker 1: youth leaders. We main leaders peace at home defines peace 662 00:39:58,556 --> 00:40:02,836 Speaker 1: in the community, defined peace at the nation. So we're 663 00:40:02,876 --> 00:40:07,276 Speaker 1: saying if we can help bring people together through the 664 00:40:07,316 --> 00:40:10,436 Speaker 1: Peace Academy, then you can and greater platform where we 665 00:40:10,476 --> 00:40:15,836 Speaker 1: can train youth as peace builders, launch a peace movement, 666 00:40:16,036 --> 00:40:19,356 Speaker 1: a continent word peace movement. Because we have an African outlook, 667 00:40:19,396 --> 00:40:21,756 Speaker 1: want to build a peace Academy in Uganda, but then 668 00:40:21,876 --> 00:40:26,556 Speaker 1: start conducting a training opportunity to support a youth leaders 669 00:40:26,556 --> 00:40:30,236 Speaker 1: on different parts of the continent and after forming the 670 00:40:30,276 --> 00:40:32,836 Speaker 1: web Network of peace Builders, we launch a peace movement. 671 00:40:33,836 --> 00:40:37,156 Speaker 1: It is our hope that through the Peace Academy in 672 00:40:37,236 --> 00:40:40,636 Speaker 1: two three years time, we can have an African lead 673 00:40:41,556 --> 00:40:47,596 Speaker 1: model peace building operation, not peace keeping operation. We want 674 00:40:47,596 --> 00:40:51,436 Speaker 1: a model peace building operation, something that we know where 675 00:40:51,476 --> 00:40:53,796 Speaker 1: the next war is going to happen. Even right now, 676 00:40:54,036 --> 00:40:56,116 Speaker 1: the world knows where which account is going to go 677 00:40:56,156 --> 00:40:59,476 Speaker 1: through the next war, but nobody's doing anything to prevent it. 678 00:40:59,836 --> 00:41:02,516 Speaker 1: We want to be able to be preventing conflict upfront. 679 00:41:03,476 --> 00:41:05,996 Speaker 1: But only it is possible when we have the local, 680 00:41:06,436 --> 00:41:10,276 Speaker 1: homegrown peace builders, homegrown conflict media us not waiting for 681 00:41:10,396 --> 00:41:13,236 Speaker 1: outside one to come. Patrific and empower ourselves and create 682 00:41:13,236 --> 00:41:16,916 Speaker 1: the platform where can also strengthen our humanitat and response 683 00:41:16,996 --> 00:41:20,396 Speaker 1: capacity locally. There's so much we can respond to protect 684 00:41:20,396 --> 00:41:23,356 Speaker 1: and support one another. But because we are not more blized, 685 00:41:23,396 --> 00:41:25,836 Speaker 1: we're not connected, it's so difficult to do it. So victory, 686 00:41:26,076 --> 00:41:28,356 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people listening to the serve 687 00:41:28,596 --> 00:41:31,876 Speaker 1: is moved and inspired by your story as I am 688 00:41:31,916 --> 00:41:35,836 Speaker 1: hearing it. What are some things that people can do 689 00:41:36,516 --> 00:41:40,756 Speaker 1: to support your peace initiative, but also more generally to 690 00:41:41,036 --> 00:41:45,636 Speaker 1: promote prevention and end to violent conflict in Africa. I 691 00:41:45,716 --> 00:41:48,196 Speaker 1: know the one is full of problems, and sometimes people 692 00:41:48,236 --> 00:41:51,836 Speaker 1: find that the suffering or the war or pain is 693 00:41:51,876 --> 00:41:55,196 Speaker 1: too far away from me. Just because it is in 694 00:41:55,236 --> 00:41:58,316 Speaker 1: Africa doesn't affect my business in Europe, in America, it's 695 00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:01,956 Speaker 1: okay to some people. That is how it feels. I've 696 00:42:01,996 --> 00:42:06,356 Speaker 1: always wanted to reach out to people. We genuinely want 697 00:42:06,396 --> 00:42:10,316 Speaker 1: to allop Africa and allow African people to live life 698 00:42:10,596 --> 00:42:13,916 Speaker 1: of peace and the continent is safe. There's so many 699 00:42:13,956 --> 00:42:17,676 Speaker 1: ways one let us support, join hand and support the 700 00:42:17,796 --> 00:42:23,236 Speaker 1: local actors, local peace builders, local young people. It hurts 701 00:42:23,236 --> 00:42:26,116 Speaker 1: me to see they're dying every day trying to escape 702 00:42:26,116 --> 00:42:29,196 Speaker 1: the continent. They're diving into the unknown in the water. 703 00:42:29,636 --> 00:42:32,716 Speaker 1: Africa has given to so much wealth from this planet. 704 00:42:33,116 --> 00:42:34,956 Speaker 1: But I think the world timers came also for the 705 00:42:34,956 --> 00:42:37,596 Speaker 1: world to get Africa out of poverty, would be willing. 706 00:42:37,716 --> 00:42:40,276 Speaker 1: We would be happy to be supported to allop us 707 00:42:40,276 --> 00:42:43,396 Speaker 1: build a peace academy, support our work in training the 708 00:42:43,516 --> 00:42:47,876 Speaker 1: peace activists across the continent. We need change right now 709 00:42:47,916 --> 00:42:51,636 Speaker 1: in Africa, but we cannot pursue change by planting seeds 710 00:42:51,636 --> 00:42:55,156 Speaker 1: of destruction. We need to pursue change by planting seeds 711 00:42:55,516 --> 00:42:58,716 Speaker 1: love and careful fellow humanity. And that's what I think 712 00:42:59,356 --> 00:43:02,636 Speaker 1: you can do as a listener. Don't think it's too 713 00:43:02,636 --> 00:43:05,236 Speaker 1: far away. If you love me, if you love our people, 714 00:43:05,236 --> 00:43:08,956 Speaker 1: we love the continent, you could allop us work towards 715 00:43:09,156 --> 00:43:11,316 Speaker 1: hunting the right seats in the right generation, at the 716 00:43:11,396 --> 00:43:15,076 Speaker 1: right age. Let us have a platform, welcome, promote the culture. 717 00:43:15,556 --> 00:43:19,476 Speaker 1: Maybe we're going to in our lifetime raising new Mandela, 718 00:43:19,796 --> 00:43:23,796 Speaker 1: raising new Desmond, Tutu leaders who have sown so much 719 00:43:23,876 --> 00:43:27,436 Speaker 1: care and treasure for humanity and the other people give 720 00:43:27,516 --> 00:43:30,516 Speaker 1: us so much hope. And I do believe so many 721 00:43:30,596 --> 00:43:36,596 Speaker 1: Africans really hoping that one day there will be peace 722 00:43:36,676 --> 00:43:39,156 Speaker 1: and they will live better, happy life. Victor, I feel 723 00:43:39,156 --> 00:43:41,796 Speaker 1: like I've just been talking to someone like the people 724 00:43:41,836 --> 00:43:44,436 Speaker 1: you mentioned, and I want to thank you for who 725 00:43:44,476 --> 00:43:47,276 Speaker 1: you are and what you're doing, and for sharing your 726 00:43:47,276 --> 00:43:52,276 Speaker 1: story with us. Some incredible personal testimony there about life 727 00:43:52,276 --> 00:43:55,836 Speaker 1: in a war zone in northern Uganda from Victor Oten 728 00:43:56,396 --> 00:43:59,796 Speaker 1: and his journey through it and out of its. Archbishop 729 00:43:59,836 --> 00:44:03,396 Speaker 1: Desmond Tutu said, my heart swells with joy to see 730 00:44:03,396 --> 00:44:07,316 Speaker 1: Oten as one of the new hope for Africa, and 731 00:44:07,396 --> 00:44:09,596 Speaker 1: it's a rare and beautiful thing to know that much 732 00:44:09,596 --> 00:44:12,236 Speaker 1: of Victor's work with the Piece Academy and his work 733 00:44:12,556 --> 00:44:16,156 Speaker 1: with survivors of conflict is coming down the line. You 734 00:44:16,196 --> 00:44:21,956 Speaker 1: can find him at African Youth Initiative dot org. Solvable 735 00:44:22,036 --> 00:44:25,836 Speaker 1: is a collaboration between Pushkin Industries and the Rockefella Foundation, 736 00:44:26,156 --> 00:44:30,316 Speaker 1: with production by Chalk and Blade. Pushkin's executive producer is 737 00:44:30,356 --> 00:44:34,436 Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle, Engineering by Jason Gambrell and the fine folks 738 00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:39,836 Speaker 1: at GSI Studios. Original music composed by Pascal Wise. Special 739 00:44:39,876 --> 00:44:44,196 Speaker 1: thanks to Maggie Taylor, Heather Faine, Julia Barton, Carlie Migliori, 740 00:44:44,676 --> 00:44:48,876 Speaker 1: cher Vincent, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Gladwell. You can Learn 741 00:44:48,916 --> 00:44:53,596 Speaker 1: more about solving today's biggest problems at Rockefella Foundation dot org. 742 00:44:53,836 --> 00:44:57,836 Speaker 1: Slash Solvable, I'm Mave Higgins. Now go solve it. It It 743 00:45:10,476 --> 00:45:11,836 Speaker 1: couplet