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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. We've already made our big tour announcement for

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Speaker 1: the year, but this is a little different because we

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Speaker 1: have added a show because Denver sold out, so we

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Speaker 1: have added a second show in Denver. Nice. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be there on Wednesday. Then we added a

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Speaker 1: show the day before the same place, Gothic Theater, Englewood, Colorado.

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Speaker 1: And you can go to s y s K live

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Speaker 1: dot com to get info and tickets for that show

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Speaker 1: and all the rest of our shows to Chuck. That's right, Boston,

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Speaker 1: April fourth, d C April five. St. Louis, May and Cleveland, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Come out and see us. Welcome to Stuff you Should

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Speaker 1: Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey what, Actually,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that yet, Chuck, because we're going to

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Speaker 1: start the podcast later. This is like a pre thing,

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Speaker 1: that's right, a pre welcome to this episode, a very

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Speaker 1: special episode of Stuff you should Know. That's right because

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Speaker 1: well it's live, and not only that, where are we live.

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Speaker 1: We are live in our beloved town of Atlanta's right, Hotlanta.

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Speaker 1: Well no you don't. No one calls it that everybody,

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Speaker 1: but we we did this special show at the Buckhead

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Speaker 1: Theater sold it out by the way, UM, and it

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Speaker 1: was a it was a benefit show. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: pretty great. We toured this topic in quite a few

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Speaker 1: cities last year. We had a lot of fun, and

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Speaker 1: we decided, actually, is your idea, give you full credit. Hey,

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Speaker 1: let's make this Atlanta local show a benefit show and

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Speaker 1: give all of the dough to uh charities of our choice.

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Speaker 1: So mine, Chuck was the National Down Syndrome Society UM,

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Speaker 1: which is this great organization who advocate for people with

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Speaker 1: Down syndrome obviously UM, but one of the things that

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Speaker 1: the National Down Syndrome Society is dedicated to, especially right now,

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Speaker 1: they have something called law Syndrome uh checkout law syndrome

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Speaker 1: dot org. And basically they're trying to get the laws

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Speaker 1: changed that make people with Down syndrome choose between pursuing

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Speaker 1: like a career and actually being able to support themselves

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Speaker 1: or uh not in staying at home and living with

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Speaker 1: their parents but still getting access to the really great

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Speaker 1: government Medicaid healthcare that they need. So UM, the n

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Speaker 1: d s S is saying they shouldn't have to choose,

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Speaker 1: that we should want both of them, uh want them

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Speaker 1: to have both of them. So that's that's their push

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Speaker 1: right now. Uh, and you can go to n d

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Speaker 1: s S dot org and they have all sorts of

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Speaker 1: ways for you to donate and you can do that

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Speaker 1: and feel great about yourself. It's great. And they actually

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Speaker 1: sent people from the society to the show and we

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Speaker 1: met them and they were just they were wonderful and

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Speaker 1: what it was a great place to uh to pick

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Speaker 1: what a great way to donate your money people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: shout out to Colleen and Cale for coming to the show,

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. And for my charity, I picked

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Speaker 1: the Lifeline Animal Project right here in Atlanta. They are

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Speaker 1: a sort of local grassroots see animal rescue organization. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They have a few locations in Atlanta there to terrific.

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Speaker 1: They have low costs spaying neuter programs. Obviously you can uh,

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Speaker 1: you can adopt, you can volunteer. Um. They're they're really

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Speaker 1: just great and they do it all um not for

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Speaker 1: fame or glory or money, but because Atlanta has a serious,

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Speaker 1: serious problem with stray pets. And they're just the nicest people.

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Speaker 1: So it's great that you guys are supporting them, and

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's very worthy cause they are who Emily

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Speaker 1: and I are charitable with every year on our own anyway,

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Speaker 1: and it was great to efficiently partner with them, uh

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Speaker 1: and be able to combine with our regular donating and

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Speaker 1: write them a big old fat check thanks to Stuff

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Speaker 1: you Should Know listeners. Yeah, so, so here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: We donated of our proceeds from that show, and we

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Speaker 1: twisted every arm involved. Um, how stuff works, got T

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Speaker 1: shirts made up. Legendary super fan and friend Aaron Cooper

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Speaker 1: donated his time to design the T shirts. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: people who made the T shirts donated them for free.

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Speaker 1: All the proceeds from the T shirts went to National

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Speaker 1: Down Syndrome Society and Lifeline Animal Rescue. So what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to say now is we're releasing this episode and

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Speaker 1: we are hoping that you are beloved Stuff you Should

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Speaker 1: Know listeners, Well, take the time to go make a

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Speaker 1: donation yourself in exchange for this free live episode that

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Speaker 1: we're bringing you. That's right, And if you want to

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Speaker 1: just donate regular style, you can go to Lifeline Animal

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Speaker 1: dot org. That would be great, but they made it

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Speaker 1: super easy and set up a text donation campaign, so

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Speaker 1: all you have to do is text Lifeline whatever amount

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Speaker 1: of money. So text Lifeline dollar sign five to five

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Speaker 1: zero one five, and you have just donated five bucks

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Speaker 1: or however much money you want to donate. It's really

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Speaker 1: really easy, right, And you can go to the n

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Speaker 1: d S S dot org website and you can donate there.

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Speaker 1: Um and they make it pretty easy on you. I

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Speaker 1: believe both donations are donations to both organizations are text deductible.

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Speaker 1: It's got that bonus two. That's right. So one more

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Speaker 1: time for Lifeline, you can text to the number five,

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Speaker 1: text the words Lifeline dollar sign and whatever number you

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Speaker 1: want to donate, and then that's n D S S

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Speaker 1: dot org and away with the show. Hey, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant.

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Speaker 1: Jerry's not here, but we are with all these beautiful

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Speaker 1: people live at the Buckhead Theater in our own Atlanta

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Speaker 1: g A good wow. Hey yeah they are not too shabby. Everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's start. Man, I feel great. So I feel great. Since, uh,

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Speaker 1: since this is a live podcast and it's actually set

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Speaker 1: a little further back in time, we thought we would

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Speaker 1: all get into the way back machine. So for those

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Speaker 1: of you who have seen us lie before, you know,

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Speaker 1: The Way Back Machine is made up. It's not a

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Speaker 1: real thing, you but it does take a twinkle in

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Speaker 1: your eye and a heartful of magic to get into

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Speaker 1: the way Back Machine. So I hope all of you

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Speaker 1: have that going on right now. That was my best

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Speaker 1: Sarah Silverman impression. It's pretty good. Thanks. So we're all

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Speaker 1: on the way Back Machine, okay, and we're going back

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Speaker 1: to Detroit, Michigan, back to like the mid sixties or

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Speaker 1: something like that. We'll say, yeah, back when people still

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to Detroit. I'm purpose sorry, ma'am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I told you. And we're gonna fly in does and

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Speaker 1: we're very small and invisible by the way, So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna fly in over the shoulder of an up and

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Speaker 1: coming auto executive with a beautiful head of hair named

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Speaker 1: Lee I A Coca and Lee Lee. At the time,

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Speaker 1: he was what you might call a young turk, up

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Speaker 1: and coming, like ready to take on the world. Great

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Speaker 1: guy um and he had a lot of cred around

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Speaker 1: the company that he worked at called Ford Motor Company's

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Speaker 1: tried his pre Chrysler right, and he had a lot

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Speaker 1: of cred because he had designed the Mustang right. It

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Speaker 1: was known as Lee's car even. Yeah. I mean if

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Speaker 1: you if you are the guy in the lead of

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Speaker 1: the Ford Mustang project, then you've kind of bought your

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Speaker 1: ticket in the car industry. If you have a great car,

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Speaker 1: do you make the car that Vanilla Ice will eventually love,

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Speaker 1: You've done something quite right with your life, right. Did

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Speaker 1: he have a Mustang rolling in my five point oh

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Speaker 1: with the rag top down? That's a Mustang, buddy, is

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Speaker 1: it sure? I think it's even in the video. I've

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Speaker 1: never been more ashamed to not know the lyrics of

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Speaker 1: a song. Yeah, because it's f and Vanilla Ice. So

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I should have known it. I

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Speaker 1: just feel like a stooge. Oh no, it's fine. Now

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Speaker 1: you've got a Wan shirt on, you probably should know

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Speaker 1: those lyrics. But I know I know that lyric. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. It's my understanding, right everybody. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was a Volkswagen Beetle. No. No, but that

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Speaker 1: does come up starting now because Lee I Coca was

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Speaker 1: one of the few people in Detroit at the time

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Speaker 1: who realized that the American auto industry's lunch was being

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Speaker 1: eaten in the subcompact market, mainly because no American car

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Speaker 1: company was making subcompacts at the time. Right, we liked

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Speaker 1: our cars very large, like land yachts. Yeah, okay, so

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Speaker 1: Li said, the Germans are eating our lunch with their

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Speaker 1: little Volkswagen Beetle Hitler's car. Look it up, I had

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Speaker 1: two Volkswagen Beetles. Those were two Hitler's cars. You supported

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Speaker 1: Hitler in a way. My mom is over there, she

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Speaker 1: bought that car. She's going like uh. And then the

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Speaker 1: Toyota Corolla was also killing people, right, killing Detroit, I

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Speaker 1: should say, And so Lee said, we need to get

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Speaker 1: a car to market. But I'm not the president. There's

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Speaker 1: a man who is president. And what is his name, Chuck?

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember, honestly, Oh no, I do remember.

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Speaker 1: His name is Bunky Knudsen. If you're the president of

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Speaker 1: car company and your name is Bunky Knudson, you gotta

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Speaker 1: know you have a target on your back. Right, nobody's

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Speaker 1: gonna let that stand for very long, especially not Lee.

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Speaker 1: I a coca. Yeah. The only thing Bunky Ninson and

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Speaker 1: that year would have been president of is the the

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Speaker 1: super secret, super secret Treehouse Playboy magazine club led by

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Speaker 1: Bunkie News, right or the local Union of the Guys

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Speaker 1: who sell those like monkeys that play the symbols on

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Speaker 1: the street, you know, the wind up ones. Alright. So

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Speaker 1: regardless of that, Bunky Knutson was in charge and Leah

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Speaker 1: Coca had his eight had sights set on that job.

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Speaker 1: And so they settle things in the traditional way in

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Speaker 1: the car industry at the time, which was arm wrestling. Serious.

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Speaker 1: So Leaa Coca had this thing where um, and we

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Speaker 1: think this is probably how he rose to power. He

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Speaker 1: could rip the sleeve clean off of his shirt right

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Speaker 1: at the shoulder, right before an arm wrestling match, right.

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Speaker 1: It's very intimidating, and he always kept his arms oiled.

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Speaker 1: Every morning he would oil him up and very gingerly

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Speaker 1: put the shirt on over him so the oil wouldn't

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Speaker 1: show too So it really had like a pronounced effect

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Speaker 1: when he tore his shirtslee of off and went like that.

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Speaker 1: So when he did this, the Bunky nuts in and

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Speaker 1: Bunky saw that oil bicep. He knew his time running

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Speaker 1: for a company had grown short. That's right, funky news,

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Speaker 1: and knew what time it was that was totally made up.

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Speaker 1: You all realized the stunt silence threw me off a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It was back to the Treehouse for Bunky.

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Speaker 1: So Leah Coca found himself in charge of Forward, and

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Speaker 1: he said, we gotta get a subcompact going fast, dudes.

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Speaker 1: So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna get a

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Speaker 1: project going. I'm even gonna give it a code name,

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Speaker 1: which is really weird and sort of sman mark, kind

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Speaker 1: of a Newts and move. But he named it Project Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: which is very cute and a little ironic once you

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Speaker 1: know what this is about. And he said, I want

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Speaker 1: a car I want on the market, and what twenty

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Speaker 1: four months? Yeah, and normally it took like forty three

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Speaker 1: months dating car from concept to production. I cocy said, no,

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Speaker 1: twenty four so super fast, and it can't weigh more

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Speaker 1: than two thousand sounds and it can't cost a customer

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Speaker 1: more than two thousand dollars. And he totally should have

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Speaker 1: called it Project two thousand, so that would have been

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Speaker 1: a super cool name. In the early nineteen seventies, that

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Speaker 1: car would go on to be known as the Ford Pinto.

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Speaker 1: For those of you who aren't going, like a couple

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Speaker 1: of collaps, a couple of booze, a couple of groans,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of like we're gonna fill the people

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Speaker 1: in on this, Okay. Yeah, So the deal with the

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Speaker 1: Ford Pinto was if you don't know, and you did

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Speaker 1: grow up in the seventies, um, it had a problem.

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Speaker 1: We don't know a lot about cars, but we know

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Speaker 1: that the Ford Pinto had a problem. If you would

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Speaker 1: hit the Ford Pinto from the rear going very very slow,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it would burst into a fiery ball. And that

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Speaker 1: is not a good thing for a car to do.

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Speaker 1: It's asleep when you're still in the car. Has anyone

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Speaker 1: seen the movie Top Secret? Remember that one? There's there's

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Speaker 1: a scene where Valkimer I think, is on a motorcycle.

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Speaker 1: He's being chased by Germans, and um, he somehow out

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Speaker 1: maneuvers them and they swerve off the road and slam

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Speaker 1: on their brakes and almost come to a complete stop

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Speaker 1: right before hitting hitting a Pinto in the rear, but

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Speaker 1: don't quite make it. It makes that crystal thing sound

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Speaker 1: and then boom they just blow up into flames. Right

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Speaker 1: And this is in the eighties. This was like at

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Speaker 1: least ten years after the Pinto had this reputation. That's

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Speaker 1: not that far from the truth, actually, we found from

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Speaker 1: doing this research, so there's actually a lot of choice

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Speaker 1: quotes that we found a lot of people love taking

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Speaker 1: pot shots at the Pinto. Some have written some pretty

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Speaker 1: great stuff. Um, you want to take the first one? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The first one was from Popular Mechanics magazine and they said,

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Speaker 1: Argue dobably, the most dangerous fuel tank of all time

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Speaker 1: was a rear mounted vessel installed on the seventy one

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Speaker 1: through seventies Ford Pinto. It's possibly the best example of

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Speaker 1: what happens when poor engineering meets corporate negligence. Good quote,

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Speaker 1: I got one. There was this guy named Dr Leslie Ball.

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Speaker 1: He was the chief safety officer for NASA's manned Space program.

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Speaker 1: So this guy new safety. Right. Um, he said that

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Speaker 1: the release to production of the Pinto was the most

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Speaker 1: reprehensible decision in the history of American engineering. So there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things I wanted to try. A couple

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Speaker 1: of things to note in this quote. One he said

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Speaker 1: was the most reprehensible decision, not one of the and

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Speaker 1: he also qualifies it with American engineering, not automotive engineering.

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Speaker 1: He's including like, um, easy bake ovens and other stuff

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Speaker 1: that have killed like millions people. You know, he's including

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Speaker 1: everything ever built basically easy, big governance or death traps too.

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Speaker 1: So the Pinto, it was kind of an issue for Ford.

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Speaker 1: Is we're going to see But there's this one Tippitt

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Speaker 1: we ran acrost that we just love. There was a

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Speaker 1: radio spot for the Pinto in the seventies and Ford

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Speaker 1: had to get there um their agency to get rid

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Speaker 1: of it because it had the line the Pinto leaves

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Speaker 1: you with that warm feeling for real, this is this

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Speaker 1: is a fun one of research, alright. So again I

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Speaker 1: want to reiterate, we don't know anything about the design

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Speaker 1: of cars. You know how to drive cars, and that's

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Speaker 1: about where it ends. But we do know this. The

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Speaker 1: original design of the Pinto had a gas tank that

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Speaker 1: started six inches from the rear bumper. I know that's

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Speaker 1: not a good idea. If I was in Detroit, I

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Speaker 1: would have said, well, that's weird, and why would you

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Speaker 1: want to do that, because you know, accidents happen. No

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Speaker 1: one thought about it. No. That's made even worse by

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Speaker 1: the fact that a car critic would later call that

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Speaker 1: bumper a little more than ornamentation, right, like cars supposed

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Speaker 1: to have a bumper, just put that thing that looks

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Speaker 1: like a bumper on it. Basically there was a later

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Speaker 1: improved version of the bumper on the Pinto that could

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Speaker 1: with stand a five impact. That was the improved version.

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Speaker 1: And again, this is all happening six inches away from

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Speaker 1: the gas tank. That's that's just one side of the

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Speaker 1: fuel tank. There's a whole other side, and it had

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Speaker 1: like its own issues. Basically, Yeah, there's there's something on

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Speaker 1: a car called a differential. Uh. The mechanics say, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what that is, but um, I did some

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Speaker 1: research and here's what I'm gonna call it. It's the

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Speaker 1: magic box that makes the car go room. It's pretty accurate.

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Speaker 1: What's what's so funny is like we pride ourselves like

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Speaker 1: chasing down every tidbit of information when it comes to cars.

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Speaker 1: Were just like out no idea. Who would want to

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Speaker 1: hear a live podcast about a car. So this magic

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Speaker 1: box on the Ford Pinto had four protruding bolts facing

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Speaker 1: the gas tank that uh see you're getting it now

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Speaker 1: that uh in court later on, and this would end

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Speaker 1: up in court that you see where this is going.

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Speaker 1: Lawyers would call them can openers, and we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: call them for this show, flaming death bolts. I wish

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Speaker 1: we had a sound effect or like a jingle like

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Speaker 1: Flaming Death Bolts, And we should totally trademark Flaming Death Bolts,

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Speaker 1: I think so too, or at least that's a band name.

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Speaker 1: I think we should at least call it out as

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Speaker 1: that a right do you hear that the Flamings Faults

294
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Speaker 1: behind us? That came out uh on the wrong night? So,

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Speaker 1: like I said, there was there's a lot of good

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Speaker 1: quotes out there, but probably the best of them, the

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Speaker 1: best came from this journalist named Mark Dowie who figures

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Speaker 1: big time into the story, and he probably got across

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Speaker 1: the problem with the Pinto better than anybody. And if

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Speaker 1: I may, okay, Mark Daway said, if you ran into

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Speaker 1: a Pinto you were following it over thirty miles, the

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Speaker 1: rear end of the car would buckle like an accordion

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Speaker 1: right up to the back seat, and the tube bleeding

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Speaker 1: to the gas tank cap would be ripped away from

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Speaker 1: the tank itself and gas would immediately begin squashing onto

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Speaker 1: the road around the car. Right the buckle. Gas tank

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Speaker 1: would be jammed up against the differential housing, which contained

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Speaker 1: four sharp protruding bolts, likely to gash holes in the

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Speaker 1: tank and spill still more gas. Now, all you need

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Speaker 1: is a spark from a cigarette. And this is me

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Speaker 1: interjecting here. This is the seventies. So every single person

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Speaker 1: in every single car was smoking every single second of

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Speaker 1: every moment they were driving. There four lit cigarettes in

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Speaker 1: every car at all times, with windows up. Barring that

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00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: you could also get it from the ignition or scraping metal,

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Speaker 1: and both cars would be engulfed in flames. If you

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Speaker 1: gave that pin to a really good whack, say at

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Speaker 1: forty miles per hour, chances are excellent that it's doors

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Speaker 1: with jam and you would have to stand by and

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Speaker 1: watch its trap passengers burned to death. You're let's not

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Speaker 1: me saying this your additional what do you call that?

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Speaker 1: Pantomiming acting? Uh, it's it's in the pantomime trade fantastic

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Speaker 1: reading rainbow with Josh. Give LaVar Burton a run for

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Speaker 1: his money, all right, So there was one thirty mile

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Speaker 1: per hour crap dust with the pinto that found that

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Speaker 1: all thirteen gallons, all thirteen gallons uh spilled out in

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Speaker 1: less than sixty seconds. So we all drive here in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta and you all pump gas. You know how fast

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Speaker 1: when you're pumping gas it's coming out and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, that's so fast coming out. It's so

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Speaker 1: fast you can't pump or take a gas in sixty seconds.

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Speaker 1: So the Pinto is spilling gas faster than you can

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Speaker 1: pump gas. Think about that next time you go to

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Speaker 1: the gas station. Yeah, I think, thank God, I'm not

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Speaker 1: driving in early seventies Pinto. So the weird thing is this,

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Speaker 1: despite the Pinto's reputation, whether it's from top secret, you

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00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 1: learned about it from your older brother, who knows where

338
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Speaker 1: you heard it from, but a lot most people, I

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Speaker 1: would even say, know of the Pinto is a flaming

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Speaker 1: death trap. It turns out in retrospect, the Pinto was

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Speaker 1: really not much worse than any other car and it's

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Speaker 1: class at the time, which is not to say that

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Speaker 1: the Pinto wasn't a flaming death trap, but instead all

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Speaker 1: cars were flaming death traps. At the time. The idea

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Speaker 1: of being safe if you got into a crash was

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Speaker 1: totally lost on Detroit at a time. It wasn't a thing.

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Speaker 1: So we wondered, okay, well, how did the Pinto actually

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Speaker 1: get this reputation? And to answer that question, we have

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Speaker 1: to go to the Great Periodical Room in the sky,

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Speaker 1: and we have to go back to the ninth we

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Speaker 1: all have to die. No, No, that's the great part

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Speaker 1: about it. You can go there alive. Usually when you

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Speaker 1: say the great thing in the sky, that means you're

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Speaker 1: totally dead. It's just in the sky. Okay, alright, Great,

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Speaker 1: we're going to the Great Periodical in the sky and

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Speaker 1: we're all living. All right, it's great. We're gonna go

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Speaker 1: back to the nineteen seventy seven section and we're going

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Speaker 1: to find the nineteen seventies seven year for Mother Jones Magazine.

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Speaker 1: Has everyone ever heard of? Mother Jones Magazine is still

360
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Speaker 1: around today. One might characterize it as slightly left at

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00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: center maybe, and it was very much the same back

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Speaker 1: of the day. And in this in this September October

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Speaker 1: ninety seven issue of Mother Jones Magazine, there was an

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Speaker 1: article by Mark Dowie. That's right, it's called Pinto Madness.

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Speaker 1: You can still read this article today. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the main sources we used. It's a great deep

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Speaker 1: dive if you want to read some more stuff about

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Speaker 1: the Pinto but um. Mark Dowie was the quote you

369
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: read earlier, and he was a journalist there at the time,

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Speaker 1: and uh, this is this is one reason you know.

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Speaker 1: This is also the seventies when they released this article

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Speaker 1: in a print magazine, they had a press conference about it,

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Speaker 1: which is adorable when you think about it, especially through

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Speaker 1: today's lens. So they even traveled. They went to Washington,

375
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: d C. From San Francisco, held a big press conference

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Speaker 1: there on Capitol Hill about a magazine article, and they

377
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: invited Ralph Nader to attend, which, yeah, uh, if you

378
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: don't know who Ralph Nader is, he is a great American.

379
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: He uh it was a consumer crusader who cared really

380
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: about one thing in life, and that is making sure

381
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: that corporations didn't screw you over and they kept you safe.

382
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: And he it's not like he got rich doing it.

383
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: Ralph Nader was a great, great dude, right. He like

384
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: lived like a hermit to show that it wasn't being

385
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: influenced by one side or the other. He had like

386
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: a mattress on the floor of like a studio apartment.

387
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: I think he had a hot plate that he lived with. Ironically,

388
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: it's very dangerous I think about it. It was like

389
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: probably one of the safer hot places. But yeah, I

390
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: bet it was the best hot plate on the market,

391
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: you think so, but he bought it with his own money,

392
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: he did so any Ralph Nader was there, They got

393
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: everyone together and they had this big press conference in Washington,

394
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: d C. And uh Dowie starts to poke around a

395
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: little bit and do a little more research for this article,

396
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: and uh say, you know, I need to go to

397
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: these need to go to d O T and need

398
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: to go what was the other one called the an

399
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: h T S A once that stand for nationale man

400
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Correct some mouthful because

401
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: a lot of common words, but when you put them

402
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: together like that, it's tough. Uh So he went and

403
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: started doing some investigating and he found out that Ford

404
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: had been carrying out well they've been carrying out crash

405
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: test in secret. And when you're carrying out crash tests

406
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: in secret, that's probably not a good thing, right. It

407
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: means that you didn't get the results you were hoping for,

408
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: so you you suppressed the results you had. All the

409
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: scientists murdered Lee, I coke its totally. Did He's like

410
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: you see that He'd probably like it was like go

411
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: to sleep forever. But that was just to get the

412
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: ball rolling, he had goons kill the rest of uh

413
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: and you then you filed the crash tests with the

414
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: d O T that was the durable thing. So dawis

415
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: sitting there going through all these file cabinets, and you know,

416
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: there's all these bureaucrats going like, oh God, why does

417
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: he keep saying, Eureka, here's the guy in there with

418
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: a spy camera. And he figured out very very quickly

419
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 1: that Ford was well aware of the notion that it's

420
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: Pinto's were flaming death traps. Right, And from those forty

421
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: crash tests, he found that eleven of them, and this

422
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: is really important, eleven of those crash tests had been

423
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: carried out before the Pinto, the first one, had ever

424
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: rolled off of the production line. Right. He found in

425
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: these crash tests that every single one of those forty

426
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: crash tests, if it was a Pinto, that had not

427
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: been altered, meaning it was the same one that you

428
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: would buy it like the dealership, they lost gas and

429
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: an impact of twenty miles an hour over Not very good, right,

430
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: not good at all. So three of these cars passed

431
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: the test, and all three of them had been um

432
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: had been tweaked, for safety, like, these aren't the ones

433
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: that you would end up buying. They changed three of

434
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: them and they all three passed. Yet they still didn't

435
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: use it. And here are the three things they did.

436
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: They one was a plastic baffle, a little square plastic

437
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: that costs one dollar and it weighed one pound and

438
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: it went between the flaming death bolts and the gas

439
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: sank solve the problem. Did not use it because remember

440
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: two thousand pounds two thousand dollars, which I don't know

441
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: what that is today. It's a two thousand pounds and

442
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars the pounds and change. Okay, gravity has

443
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: read relatively the same. The other thing they did, and

444
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: this ostensibly was a little heavier, they put a metal

445
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: plate to reinforce that ornamental bumper. In other words, they

446
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: gave it a bumper and that worked. And then they

447
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: finally the final thing they did was they I think

448
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: they line that was the inside of the outside of

449
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: the gas tank, the inside of the gas to the

450
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: inside of the gas sank with a rubber bladder and

451
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: that worked. Uh, but no one likes saying the word

452
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: bladder head forward. It's too gross. It works, but it's crody,

453
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: So we're getting out. The point is they had three

454
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: solutions before the ford was being rolled off the line, uh,

455
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: and they chose to ignore all three of them, right,

456
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: big point here right um. And in addition to this

457
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: two thousand pounds two thousand dollar limitation that I Coca imposed,

458
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: that radically shortened timeline also created a climate where really

459
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: really dangerous engineering decisions were being made. Right. Normally, when

460
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: you make a car, you sketch it out, um, somebody

461
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: makes a model of it, some dude like works it

462
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: in clay, You run it into like a couple of

463
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: walls or something like if you figure out how many

464
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: like light like a cigarette lighters are going to go

465
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: into it. There's a lot of thought put into it.

466
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 1: And then once all this stuff is pre production stuff,

467
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: uh is done and you know what the car is

468
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: gonna look like, then you begin this process called tooling.

469
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: And tooling is where you make the machines that are

470
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: going to make the car that you're manufacturing. Right with

471
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: the Pinto, they didn't do that. They started designing the

472
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: car and at about the same time they started making

473
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: the machines that we're going to make that car. Before

474
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: they even knew ultimately what the final design was going

475
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: to be. So by the time they figured out that

476
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: they had a really dangerous fuel tank on their hands,

477
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: it was too late. The tooling was underway, two million

478
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: dollars worth of machines have been made, and Ford said, yeah,

479
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: so when they discovered this, um, we have a couple

480
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: of quotes here from actual engineers that worked there at

481
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: the time, and they said, did anyone go to Lee

482
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: I a coca and say, hey, we have a problem

483
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: on our hands with his gas tank? And this one

484
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: engineer from the Mother Jones article said hell no. But

485
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: if it was like so, we didn't say it like that,

486
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: he went like, hell no. Right in my mind he went,

487
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: hell no, no, uh, that person would have been fired.

488
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: Safety wasn't a popular subject around for it in those days,

489
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: and with Lee it was taboo or taboo like if

490
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: you're a normal person, if you talk normally, mh to too, taboo, tattoo, taboo. Alright, deletrious,

491
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: that's a deep cut. Yeah, it was about twenty people

492
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,239
Speaker 1: in here they got that one. That's all right, all right?

493
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: So I had Cook had a saying around for it

494
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: at the time, which was safety doesn't sell Uh. And

495
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: here's another quote from another engineer. Safety is in the

496
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: issue trunk spaces. You have no idea how that the

497
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: competition is over trunk space. Do you realize that if

498
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: we put a safer gas tank in the Pinto, you

499
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: can only get one set of golf clubs in the

500
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: trunk And that's a real quote. Yeah. And here's something

501
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: that you can do when you get home. You can

502
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: go and look up Ford Pinto ad and search Google

503
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: images or being images is out a thing being Yahoo, Yeah,

504
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be Google. Yeah, go to Netscape and

505
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: uh or if you're a paranoid type duck duck go

506
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: That even flew over my head. Uh, it's like they

507
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: don't like track or use cookies or anything like that.

508
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you're creep, I guess. I guess are

509
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: you stockpile weapons or something? Gotcha? So anyway, you can

510
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: look up Ford Pinto ads and they're all kinds of

511
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: great ads from the old days. And there's one where

512
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: there's this, uh, well, there's this couple that um, I

513
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: guess is unpacking for like a camping trip from their Pinto.

514
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: But it doesn't look like anywhere you would want to go. Camping.

515
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like a field for there's like

516
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: a ditch. It's kind of weird looking. And it says

517
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: this in the text, just split down the runabout's rear seat.

518
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: The Runabout was one of the Pinto models. Open up

519
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: the big back door, which we call a hatchback these days,

520
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: and the big back room makes packing easy back in

521
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: your golf clubs, those groceries and those big pieces of

522
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: luggage pack it all in. You make it sound really dirty.

523
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: There's big room in your little Pinto. I'm the sick oh,

524
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: because I'm using duck duck up. It's the sexiest ad

525
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: of the seventies, as read by me. I like old

526
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: ads in old magazines because like you can smell them afterward,

527
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like if you go into

528
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: Google images, the ads there, but not the smell. But

529
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: you know what an old magazine smells like fantastic smell.

530
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: You mean, like musty. What magazines are you reading? Just

531
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: any old magazine I pick up, just like alright, Jerry

532
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: gout that part, shre No, I'm not doing my shot yet,

533
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: and everybody calmed down. My niece left to go to bed.

534
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: So are there any other kids here. All right, you

535
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: have a very deep voice, young boy. Right here. I'm

536
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: seven beer me screw. So everybody, I think we can

537
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: all agree this is going pretty well. You're not gonna

538
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: like this. That means that we need to put an

539
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: ad break in here. Calm down, we'll be right back

540
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: right after these messages. Alright, Chuck, we're over here listening

541
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: and we're doing great. Frankly, this is going really well.

542
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: I agreed. So before we go to add break, everyone,

543
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: we just want to say, uh, here's a quick reminder.

544
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: Go to nd s S dot org to donate to

545
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: the National Down Cynder Society, And Chuck, what's the number

546
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: for Lifeline. You can text to the number of five

547
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: zero one, text the word Lifeline, dollar sign and whatever

548
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: amount you want to give. All right, and now we'll

549
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: we're from our sponsor. M hm, hey everybody, we're back. Yeah,

550
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: magical works. Yeah, thank you, sir. I am wearing me Andy's.

551
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: Oh you know what we should say this? That's a

552
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: freebee man. Well we'll cut this part out too, but uh,

553
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: I have to share this. We got. This is a

554
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: legit tangent like you know, like all of them, the

555
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: heavily scripted and rehearse tangents. You've heard him that. We

556
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: got an email yesterday. You saw it. I did where

557
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: a woman This is so weird. A woman wanted to

558
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: send a new pair of me Andy's to us for

559
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: us to autograph so she could frame the underwear for

560
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: her husband's Christmas gifts. Now that is a deep cut.

561
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: That's a true fan. At least she wasn't like, and

562
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: you wear them first, Yeah, each of you pass it

563
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: off to the other one, then mail them back to me.

564
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: Both of those are like, oh yeah, send him in

565
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: totally do that. I sent smell like an old magazine,

566
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: you know. Right when she got that in the mail? Ah, chuck,

567
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: uh chuck, I said, I didn't what guys, what why

568
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: would you do that? No one else saw that. I

569
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: wish you probably edited this part out to jaire this

570
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: guy right here. So I send that email to our

571
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: head of sales though, and he was so delighted. He's like, oh,

572
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait to send this to me Andy's. They're

573
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: you're autographing underwear. They're not gonna believe it. That's that's

574
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: like David Lee Roth level, except we're autographing me Andy's

575
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: for a fan, some dude, it's not David Lee Roth right,

576
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,479
Speaker 1: all right, everybody, we're back. I'm kind of thinking, sure

577
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: you do it again, though, because you just said that, Hey, everybody,

578
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: we're back. I think I just stepped on you. And

579
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: stop laughing, everybody, we need to clean I said, stop laughing. Hey, everybody,

580
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: we're back. Thanks for hanging there on. Thank you. That

581
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: was a really long appe. We know where we were. Now, Well,

582
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: I got it, I got it right, I got creepy

583
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: right before I know that, I know, all right, I

584
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: got you. Hey, everybody, we're back. Everyone's gonna be like,

585
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: what the hell happened in Atlanta? That's good enough. We're

586
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: leaving that in so by now, everybody, you may be saying, Chuck, Josh, wtf,

587
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 1: how how could this possibly be going on? How could

588
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: Ford be doing this kind of stuff. We're gonna tell

589
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: you w TF. It turns out that back in the sixties,

590
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: the American auto industry was like the last great unregulated

591
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: industry in the entire country. And the reason why was

592
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: because most Americans considered the auto industry the backbone of

593
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: the American economy. Right, so everyone said we should probably

594
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: just let the auto industry decide what's best for it

595
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,479
Speaker 1: and us it's consumers because we don't want to mess

596
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah. Big corporations love to look out for

597
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: everyday Americans, all right, But at the time there was

598
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: a fatality rate a k A death rate on the

599
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: America's highways, reaching fifty thousand people a year. We did

600
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: the math. That's a lot. That is a lot. Ralph

601
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: Nader had a book called Unsafe at Any Speed That

602
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: was a big hit. Uh. He also had one called

603
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: hot Plates Unsafe at Any Temperature. So so quite as well.

604
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: Has anyone actually read Unsafe in Any Speed? Don't feel bad,

605
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: We haven't either, Okay, good? So he released his book

606
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: in nine and it was basically like a chapter by

607
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: chapter really wonky detailed description of how your car was

608
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 1: ready and willing to murder you, right, not kill you,

609
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: murder you. They were like chapters on like the steering

610
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: column it's going to impale you, or that dashboard it

611
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: ain't padded and your head's gonna open up like a

612
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,479
Speaker 1: ripe candle op when it comes in contact with it, right, yeah.

613
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: And the reason that this would happen for both instances

614
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: because there's no such thing as seatbelts right. So he

615
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: goes to the it was your right. And that's how

616
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: you knew, like a really dedicated mom in the in

617
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: the sixties because she was missing an arm. That's like

618
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: her kid was all messed up at a DNA on

619
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: his head or whatever because it didn't quite work, because

620
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: her arm came clean off when they both went forward,

621
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: but he was still alive. She didn't have an arm.

622
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: It was a badge of honor back then. So Ralph

623
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: Nader makes this makes writes this book, and it gets

624
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: released and it becomes like a bestseller almost immediately, and

625
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: it has so much of an impact that the next

626
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: year Congress passed the Highway Safety Act of Yeah, and

627
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: then this is another way you knew. It was a

628
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: day from way back in the day. Uh. The House

629
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: and the Senate passed it unanimously. That's so coaint. They

630
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: all got together and said, well, this is what's good

631
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: for the American people. So this is our job to

632
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: do this. And that went yeah, pretty sweet, pretty sweet time,

633
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: pretty sweet. So they passed this thing. In the upshot

634
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: of it was that now the auto industry would be regulated.

635
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: It was just the way it was gonna be okay,

636
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: and the auto industry said, okay, okay, fine, fine, but

637
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: what about this? Why don't we agree to use something

638
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: called a cost benefit analysis to decide if we actually

639
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: undertake any regulations you proposed? Deal? And the d O

640
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: T and n H T s A was like, well

641
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: no in the auto industry went like that, And the

642
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: d O T was like, all right, fine, fine, we

643
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: don't want to arm wrestle over this one. Fine cost

644
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: benefit analysis for everybody. Yeah, So if you don't know

645
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: what a cost benefit analysis is, we call it the

646
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: cruelest of all analyzes because it's basically just a math problem.

647
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: You plug in numbers and you say, I plug in this,

648
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: I plug in this. Is it worth it to do this?

649
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: Which works great in a lot of circumstances if you're

650
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: talking about I don't know, like a like what's a

651
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: good example, or like, like if you're trying to figure

652
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: out whether to go with tire distributor A or tire distributor,

653
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 1: be kind of easy, right exactly, But if you're talking

654
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: about replacing a fuel tank because it's killing people, it

655
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: gets a little sticky because one of the inputs on

656
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: those math problems has to be the value of a

657
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: human life. There's no getting around, no way around it. Right.

658
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: So the nht s A said, well, I guess we

659
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: should go ahead and figure out how to quantify a

660
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: human life. They all went home and like kissed their

661
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: children and they came back to work. And what they

662
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: came up with the actually did it. There was a

663
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two document that said, everybody, this is the

664
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: value of a human life and figured it out two

665
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, seven hundred and twenty five dollars. And what

666
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: they did was, yeah, really, I thought mine was half that.

667
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: So what they did was they figured out um, the

668
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: the average lifespan or the average age I guess of

669
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 1: a person who dies in a car wreck, and then

670
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: subtracted it from the average lifespan of of the Americans

671
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: at the at the time in the Iraq, such as UM,

672
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: and they came up with They came up with thirty

673
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: seven years, and those people who die in a car

674
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: wreck would have lived thirty seven more years. And then

675
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: they say, well, how much would those people make in

676
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: that time? And they said, well, two hundred thousand, seven

677
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: five dollars. The problem with this is is that it

678
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: really what they calculated was the cost to society and

679
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: lost productivity if it's just wages, right, They didn't take

680
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: into account some very important stuff like the value that

681
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: the individual places on his or her own life, or

682
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: whether their family wants him to come home after a

683
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: car wreck, stuff like that. But they came up with

684
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: this dollar amount and they said, there there. We'll get

685
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: better at it over time. But here's what it is.

686
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: And it's a primitive step exactly again, the cruelest of

687
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: all analyzes. So Mark Dowie is sorting through all the

688
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: file cabinets of the d OT and the the National

689
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: Highway Transportation Safety Administration. It's no faster to say it abbreviated.

690
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: I know, I would just mess it up though. Uh

691
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: So he's starting through all this stuff. He's going through

692
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: file cabinets. Everyone's worried, and he comes across the document

693
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: of memo called fatalities associated with crash and duced fuel

694
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: leakage and fires. And over the years people come to

695
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: think like, this is the smoking gun. This is pinto.

696
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: It was about pinto fires from getting hit in the rear,

697
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: and that's what it is. It really wasn't that. What

698
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: it was was it was about all cars in the

699
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: United States and whether they caught on fire when they

700
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: rolled over. However, the one damning thing in this memo

701
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: was that Ford used that number, well almost that number

702
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: to quantify the value of a human life. But Ford

703
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: rounded down the rounded down the value of a human life,

704
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: just you know, to make the math easier. Yeah, they

705
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: made a two d grand. They cut off the seven

706
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: five dollars, just made it a straight up two. Right.

707
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: So they estimated like a hundred and eighty fatalities and

708
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty injuries in car fires post collision

709
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: car fires every year in the US. And they said, well,

710
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: that would cost society, uh, forty nine million dollars in

711
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: lost productivity. But if you want us to do this

712
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: eleven dollar per car safety improvement that would save those

713
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: lives and those injuries, well it cost us the auto

714
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: industry a hundred and thirteen million dollars, so I don't

715
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: have to do it, right, great, see it Racketball's head.

716
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: That was kind of do you guys see fight Club?

717
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: Remember Edward Norton's job. That was kind of what he

718
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: did right a little bit. Yeah, he had to kind

719
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: of calculate whether or not it was worth taking a recall,

720
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 1: and Ford, thanks to Dowie, had just been caught red

721
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: handed with one of these submitted in the public record. Alright,

722
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: So part of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act was was

723
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: something in all these bills. This gets a little wonky,

724
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: but bear with me. They're all broken down into subcategories,

725
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: and one of them was called Vehicle Safety Standard three

726
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: oh one. And three oh one was basically our government

727
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: getting together and saying, you know what, we feel like,

728
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: you should be able to get hit from the rear

729
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: at like twenty miles an hour and not explode it

730
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: into a fiery ball. We've talked about it. We know

731
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: what you're gonna say, Detroit, but we've talked about we

732
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: feel very strongly about this. We feel less reasonable. Democrats

733
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: pushed for thirty, Republicans pushed for ten. They met in

734
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: the middle at twenty. There are people from Cough County here.

735
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: They are not happy with you right now. They are

736
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: going to let us know via email after this show,

737
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: angry that the way you feel about life. So they

738
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 1: settled in twenty miles an hour and that was Safety

739
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: Standard three oh one. But here's the here's the rub

740
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: for the Ford and the Pinto is they had a

741
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: problem on their hands. They knew they couldn't understand twenty

742
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: miles an hour. They could barely withstand five. So this

743
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: would have meant a complete redesign on the Pinto. So

744
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: they come up with a plan basically too shall we

745
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: say delay the process? Yeah, I kill it, killed it,

746
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: think killed it standard three oh one. I hate it.

747
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: And they were happy because they didn't have to kill

748
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: a human right for once. So oh yeah, I didn't

749
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: even mean to say that. But so here's what they did.

750
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 1: They got the attorneys on the case and they said,

751
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: here's what you'll do. You're gonna you're gonna file these

752
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: arguments on the last day that you can file an argument,

753
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: and you're gonna get all this data together and you're

754
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: gonna shove it in their face and say here's an argument.

755
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: D o t uh. And now you gotta look through

756
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: all the stuff and have to satisfy that argument. So

757
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: they may not have even cared if the argument held

758
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: up or not. The point was they just wanted to

759
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: delay things so they could keep selling the very dangerous Pinto.

760
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: So they did this, and they didn't they didn't file

761
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: them concurrently all at once, which is sort of what

762
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: you usually do in the law in court. Uh, they

763
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: would file one, they would go look for them, and

764
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: this holds water, it doesn't. They go great, They wait

765
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: till the next deadline and file another one, and all

766
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: of a sudden, they have delayed this process for nine years.

767
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: Nine years. They started arguing against it in nineteen and

768
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: standard three oh one went into effect in nineteen seventies seven. Right, yeah,

769
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: boom so um. There's kind of like a silver lining

770
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 1: to this whole thing. And that Ford's objections actually forced

771
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration to study the problem

772
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: of car fires to answer Fords the objections and say, no, actually,

773
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: you're wrong, they're kind of a problem. Yeah. They were

774
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: giving them reams of data and then they went, oh,

775
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: we just gave them reads. Right, But the n h

776
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: t s A also had to like contract with people

777
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: to study this stuff. And what they were finding was

778
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: that car fires in America were way way more of

779
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: a problem than even Ford I think realized at the time.

780
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: They turned up some stats like four hundred thousand cars

781
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: were burning up on the American Highway every year, burning

782
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 1: more than three thousand people at death. Is that high?

783
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: Four hundred thousand cars. Yeah, maybe it's a little high.

784
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, but this is what they turned up.

785
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: It sounds high. Here's a here's one uh of all

786
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: calls to all fire departments in the United States, and

787
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixes were cars on fire. And that nuts

788
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: just the last time, you guys, just car on fire.

789
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: This would be like an like you would see one

790
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 1: in a couple of miles later, there's another one. Well,

791
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: and yeah, and this was people didn't have cell phones,

792
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: so you would have to see a car on fire,

793
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: have a dime in your pocket, be near enough to

794
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: a payphone to report it, right, And that was and

795
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: have made the judgment that there was a chance that

796
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: the person was going to make it in the time

797
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: that you went to the pay phone. You know, there's

798
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: a lot of factors here seems high. Like if you

799
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: had a Christmas parade in your town, there's a pretty

800
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: good chance a couple of those cars were just gonna

801
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: catch fire in the middle of the parade. This is insane.

802
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: And this is what the nhc s A was finding

803
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: from studying this problem. There's a University of Miami study.

804
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: They found that rear end impact fires were quote a

805
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: clear and present hazard to all Pinto owners. That was

806
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: the cane saying that. All right, so wait, wait, wait,

807
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: we're going to take another end brake. Everybody, We'll be

808
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: right back. Don't get up, we'll be right back right

809
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: after these messages. Alright, Chuck, last ad break, it's going

810
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: pretty well. Just a hot crowd. You got that straight, buddy.

811
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: And before we go to ad break, we just wanted

812
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: to remind you again go to n DSS dot org

813
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 1: to donate to the National Down Syndrome Society and Chuck,

814
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: that's right. Or you can text to the number five

815
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: zero one text lifeline dollar sign and the amount you

816
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: want to give. And it's that easy. Yeah, And it

817
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be an ORR proposition. It could be

818
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: an and proposition to Speaking of propositions, here's a word

819
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. M hm, hey, everybody, we're back. It's

820
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: a lot better live. Huh. They get it now. So

821
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: the original draft of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act had

822
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: uh had a part that provided it was very controversial.

823
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: It provided for criminal sanctions, criminal sanctions against executives of

824
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: auto companies and these uh, well, let's be honest, these

825
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: white dudes that were executives that these auto companies said, well,

826
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: I I think I don't think you really mean that, right,

827
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: but that means we could go to prison, you understand,

828
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: I like, I think we should. Uh, we have some

829
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: lobbyists on the case. And so they they put the

830
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: lobbyists on the case and they did get that lobbied

831
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: out of the Safety Act. Unfortunately. Yeah, I say unfortunately,

832
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: that's me talking, and well, you're speaking for both of us, buddy, um.

833
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: And they end up with like five or ten thousand

834
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: dollars yea in seven money, which today translates to like

835
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: forty grant. So if you were an auto executive who

836
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: knowingly put a dangerous car out on the American market,

837
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 1: you could facifying a forty dollars And from what we understand,

838
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: that's like once one time. Fine, that was it. So

839
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: it would be up to the media and the courts

840
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: to force forward to do something about It's Pinto and

841
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: and boy did they ever The drumbeats started, isn't that right? Yeah?

842
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: It started with Dowie, right, Like Mark Dowie gets this

843
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: gets a lot of credit for um for the Pinto article,

844
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: and definitely he definitely had a big impact, but he

845
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: gets some undo credit for getting Standard three oh one

846
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: to come into effect because it came into effect pretty

847
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: shortly after the Pinto madness article came out. It turns

848
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: out later research turned up that UM, the n h

849
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: T s A had said, Ford were so sick of

850
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: you arguing against standard three oh one. How long will

851
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: it take for you guys to get your cars up

852
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: to standard three oh one level, which again is a

853
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: twenty mile an hour rear impact that doesn't lead to

854
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: fuel loss, and for its like, I don't know, it

855
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: seems like a big job, right, uh four years And

856
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: the n h T s A was like, you know,

857
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: it took you two years to design the car from scratch, right,

858
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, this is huge, massive improvements to make

859
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: it safe. So four years. So the NHTSA said, fine, fine,

860
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: in seven it'll come into effect. So it was just coincidence.

861
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: But Dawi's article did have a big impact in the

862
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: way of like shaping public opinion. Yeah, for sure. So

863
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: what happens is they're they're starting to be uh some

864
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: lawsuits people that are getting burned alive in Pinto's and

865
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: other cars, UM say well maybe maybe we could see

866
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: somebody and that is that a ducka duck in the house. Well, okay,

867
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: let's get back on tracks. Back on track works, doesn't it.

868
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: You're all charmed? Thank you for can that one for us?

869
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: Chuck Jerry cut cut that art? Alright? So, uh, why

870
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: that's delicious, it's good. Yeah, bullet bullet brand bourbon. It's

871
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: called buzz marketing everyone. They don't even pay us for

872
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: that yet. So uh. There are these people that have

873
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: this job where they recreate accidents, um for sometimes it's

874
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 1: for court, for attorneys for the state, sometimes it's for

875
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: insurance companies. But they recreate these accidents kind of show

876
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 1: what went down. And some of them started to say,

877
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: and again it was a radical notion, started to say,

878
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I think that if you get in

879
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: a car wreck, you maybe should be able to live

880
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: through it. It's a radical idea, but like maybe they

881
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: should make cars safer. Yeah, they're never going back to

882
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 1: San Diego, hippie. Well the notion from from America. Everyone

883
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: sort of agreed to this thing where like, if you

884
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: get in the car wreck and die like you got

885
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: in the car wreck, it's your fault. It was the

886
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: driver's fault. It's a driver's fault. You can't make cars

887
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: safer in the case of an accident. It seems weird

888
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: now because it's all we think about as auto safety,

889
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: but it was just not on the radar. Lea Coca

890
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: was not the only one, but that was thanks to Detroit,

891
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: like saying, it's your fault, you're a dummy. But everyone

892
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: agreed to it. Everyone But in in Detroit's defense, at

893
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: the time, everybody was wrong while they were driving. It's

894
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: way more than today, so they kind of had a point.

895
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: But still they could still make the cars safer and

896
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: should have even even more back then. Yeah, for sure.

897
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: So these I don't know what we call them, accident recreationists,

898
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: reconstruction reconstructionists. Recreationists are the Civil War dudes? Does anyone

899
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: here do that? Any Civil War reenactors. There's three who

900
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: are just sitting there like that's right now, all right?

901
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: Quicksidebar Emily and I went hiking at you guys ever

902
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: go to Sweetwater State Park see local show. Emily remember this.

903
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: We went hiking and Sweetwater and there were some Civil

904
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: War reenactors, but it wasn't like what I know about

905
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: Civil war reenactors is is that they throw a big

906
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: battle party or whatever it's called, and they act like

907
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: it's a big war and they go bang you die

908
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: or don't die and bang bang, and then that's sort of,

909
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: uh what happens. I have no idea what they do,

910
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: but it's a big show, like on a field, like

911
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: I went to one when I was a kid. I

912
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: remember that. But these dudes were just hanging out in

913
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: the woods at Sweet Quarter State Park. They were like

914
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: they had a fire going and it was it was

915
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: like three or four people. It was a couple of

916
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: dudes and a couple of ladies in in their outfits

917
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: and they were cooking like I guess, like a squirrel

918
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: on a spit. That's Huckaby style. It was no organized thing,

919
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: and I was just hiking buy it was like a

920
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: year ago. I was like, well, that's weird. Did you

921
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: guys just like back slowly into the way, don't make

922
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,439
Speaker 1: eye contacted. I guess I approved because it wasn't war,

923
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: so that's kind of cool. It was they were prepping

924
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: for war, so okay, they were gathering their strength from squirrels.

925
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: Feint very strange. Don't go to Sweetwaters by the way,

926
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: don't go there. No, not after that, Okay, I didn't know.

927
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: If there's something else, like there's a lot of abandoned

928
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: tires in the ravine or something. All right, cut that

929
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: cut that whole story. I don't know. I think it

930
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: was a good story. I think we should keep it. Jerry,

931
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: is she dead? The great period? This guy? All right,

932
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: so this recreationists, That's where I was. You are saying, uh,

933
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: maybe you should sue the car company, like because cars

934
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: should be safer, And people went, oh, well, that's not

935
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: a bad idea. Yeah, because every revolutionary idea these guys

936
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: were saying. With the pentol in particular, I'm starting to

937
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: notice a lot of charred bodies that are otherwise in

938
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: perfect shape look great aside from the charred part, right,

939
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: Like they don't have any contusions, they don't have any

940
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: broken bones. So like these accidents are happening at really

941
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: low speed. Maybe it's actually a design flaw with Ford.

942
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: And so the lawyers are like, that sounds great, and

943
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: they started circling the courthouses like the flying Monkeys and

944
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz and dropping lawsuits down on the

945
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: Ford's head. And at first forwards like bring it. We're forward.

946
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: You know, juries are made up of like upstanding registered voters, Right,

947
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna be just fine. And Ford one a couple

948
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: at first, and then they started losing them. Um and

949
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,479
Speaker 1: Ford was still kind of like, we're still we're still

950
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: taking the jury trial on. But the whole thing turned

951
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: earned on this one trial in ninety seven in Orange County, California,

952
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: Um and Ford lost big time actually in a Pinto case. Yeah,

953
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: they lost, and this was in seventy seven. They lost

954
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five million dollars and damages to

955
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: a boy named he's thirteen years old, Richard Grimshaw was

956
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: it's very sad. He's burned very badly and the driver

957
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: of the car died and a hundred million bucks back.

958
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of money now, but back then,

959
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: it's a ton of money. And it's what they call,

960
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: you've heard of like a symbolic award, where they'll just

961
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: hit a company with a ton of ton of money

962
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: and it later gets reduced. But all they care about

963
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: is that the media knows that they got hit with

964
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: this ton of money. That was sort of the case here.

965
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: It got reduced to what three and a half million bucks.

966
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: Just still it's still pretty still a lot of money

967
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: back then, of course. Um, but that initial figure like

968
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: really made a point and sent shock waves through the

969
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: auto industry, and so Ford changed its tactics. They're like, okay,

970
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: well maybe we'll start settling. And we got another quote

971
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: and Chuck reads it way better than me, So if

972
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: you don't mind, Yeah, this was an attorney for Ford. Um,

973
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: and I'll read it in the voice of Lionel Hunts

974
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: of the Simpsons, the great Phil Hartman. Uh, here we go.

975
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: We'll never go to a jury again. Not in a

976
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: fire case. Jerry is a just too sentimental. They see

977
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: those charred remains and forget the evidence. No, sir, will settle.

978
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for that. That is a He wasn't overheard saying that, right.

979
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: A TV reporter stuck up a microphone in his face

980
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: and he said that that was his quote. That like

981
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa didn't overhear him saying that to his wife

982
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:02,919
Speaker 1: at home later exactly. So Ford was like, Okay, kill

983
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: that guy, that lawyer. We're gonna start settling. And so

984
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: they did start settling. There's some benefits to settling, well,

985
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: there's some drawbacks to One is that it tells the

986
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: entire world that you know, your case is terrible, but

987
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: it says, um, while there's gonna be lower payouts to

988
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: the lawyers, um, and there's going to be lower payouts

989
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: to the defendants. And it also cuts down on discovery.

990
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: So discovery, if you go to jury, the plaintiff, the

991
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: person filing the case, has of legal access to any

992
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: in all documents that you have that proved their case

993
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: against you. Right, So with all these jury trials, there

994
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: was this steady trickle or flow even of Yeah, it

995
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: wasn't even a trickle. It was a flow of damning

996
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: evidence coming out of Ford going into the hands of

997
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: lawyers who were happily turning it around and handing it

998
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: to the media who were reporting on this stuff, which

999
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: was getting the public just good. And and that drum

1000
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: that Chuck was talking about it started to really pick up,

1001
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: and like people were really looking at Ford like in

1002
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: this weird, like unsettling, non blinky way. You know, everyone

1003
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: took their shirts off and they put like war paint on,

1004
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: and just forbus starting to get a little nervous. They

1005
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: were like like us America said you so that got

1006
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: a little weird, Yeah, thank you. Thank you, buddy. You

1007
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: get a shirt that bordered on uh performance art, did it?

1008
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: I think had I taken my shirt off and would

1009
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: have been perfect, Oh my god, do it out of

1010
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: your mind, cheer until blood comes out of your mouths.

1011
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: And I still wouldn't take my shirt off. There's nothing

1012
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: you can do to make me take my shirt. Actually,

1013
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: I would probably be like my off, which would be

1014
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: uh yeah, that does feel good. Though, now we've reached

1015
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: David Lee roth level. I wish I had another shot.

1016
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, alright, so shy. That's just having common values.

1017
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: Not taking your shirt off in public when people tell

1018
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: you too. That's normal stuff. Man, you well you did good.

1019
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: Is one of thank you Jerry cut out the last

1020
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: shame on all of you. Hometown show. Alright. So finally

1021
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: in ninety seven, UH safety three o one came into effect.

1022
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: What we talked about, would you should be able to

1023
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: hit a car from twenty miles an not be a

1024
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: flaming death ball And the nineteen seventy seven new Pinto

1025
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: debuted with a very brand new safety feature that one

1026
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: dollar one pound piece of plastic in between the flaming

1027
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: death bolts and the gast egg that they've known since

1028
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: night would save lives. Boom, thank you, so um lea Coca.

1029
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: By this time in Ford in general were scared to

1030
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: death of the PR crisis that had been growing and growing,

1031
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: and the whole thing again was started by Dowie's article.

1032
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: Not only did he get the Mother Jones readership involved,

1033
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: he really kind of awakened the mainstream media to the things.

1034
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: So everybody was reporting on this. People were suing Ford.

1035
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: It was a huge, big problem, and I had Coca

1036
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,919
Speaker 1: told everybody clam up. That's actually a direct quote from

1037
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: his book, his book. I used to think in a

1038
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: happier time that was called straight talk. But that's a

1039
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton movie. It's called talking Straight. I gotta say,

1040
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: you sent me this initial Josh said this wrote this show,

1041
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: and he sent it and he said straight talk. And

1042
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: I was like that Dolly Parton play les. It's still

1043
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: it's still said that. I never corrected it. I never

1044
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: saw the movie that would be great. You never saw

1045
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: a straight talk. I don't know. It's shamed. Is that

1046
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: gonna be your movie? Crush pick? Oh? Maybe that's buzz marketing.

1047
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: Now I have to do with no, no, no no.

1048
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was called talking straight in the end,

1049
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: I think straight talk might have been the working title. Okay,

1050
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: but then he says, like we were so afraid of um,

1051
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: the this PR crisis bankrupting forward. If you could imagine

1052
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: that that they just said, no one talked, don't talk

1053
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: to anybody, just clam up. And they thought that if

1054
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: somebody said something the wrong way and like there was

1055
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: a scary turn of phrase or something that I was

1056
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: just taking the wrong way, it would be seen as

1057
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: an admition of guilt. The problem was to the public

1058
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: um that the fact that they weren't talking was seen

1059
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: as an admission of guilt more than anything. Yeah, it

1060
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: was a big deal. Like sixty Minutes was literally knocking

1061
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 1: at the door, like Morally safer? Was it Ford knocking

1062
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: at the door And he said, I'm Morley Safer and

1063
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: if you're not intimidated, now, I got ed Bradley with me.

1064
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: We've sent two of our best dudes, so you should

1065
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: be pretty worried. And Ford was crouched down under their

1066
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: window there. It's so funny, is I used to love

1067
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: sixty minutes but when when I was like thirteen, it's

1068
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: so such a weird show to watch as a kid.

1069
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: It's sophisticated. I was not sophisticated. Apparently you were. That

1070
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: was not I don't know what I like a little right,

1071
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: And then after that you're just like all right, I'll

1072
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: turn the channel. Well. And and also another thing about

1073
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: I think it came on after either like the Wonderful

1074
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: World of Disney or that was great or Wold Kingdom

1075
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: or something, and I don't know what that is, sir.

1076
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: That was like Full House was on that that was

1077
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: like the nineties. You're way off. Yeah, I'm so old.

1078
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: Do you see this? Beard? So much gray? Like the

1079
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: Davy Crockett Story Hour? Was that one? Well, I'm not

1080
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: that old night writer. That was a good that had

1081
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: a good theme song that this is devolved into like

1082
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: shout out your favorite old thing. And we're almost done.

1083
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: Everybody called them all right, we're hit in the end.

1084
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: So uh. In June, um they started their own recall

1085
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: proceedings in sixty minutes, was on the on the door,

1086
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: they're knocking, they're knocking, and Ford says, you know what,

1087
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna undertake a voluntary recall if anyone believe that,

1088
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: they'll they'll make us look so good of one point four.

1089
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we mentioned the Pinto was

1090
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: a big, big seller, Like, despite all this, it was

1091
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 1: a super super popular car. It was like the best

1092
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: selling subcompact of the seventies. It very much was. It

1093
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 1: was It's Winona Writer's car and Stranger Things too. Oh yeah,

1094
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. I don't was it her car

1095
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: and Stranger Things? Why? I don't remember, but they featured

1096
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: the Pinto and Stranger Things too, night Rider spoiler thanks

1097
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: a lot, right now, I know what car she drives,

1098
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: all right, So they undertake a one point four million

1099
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: car recall on just the Pencil alone, but also another

1100
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: car they had, right, the Mercury Bobcat, which was it's

1101
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 1: like more luxurious but equally deadly twin. And we're not

1102
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: quite sure, like what made it so luxurious. Maybe it

1103
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: had like an onboard like blow dryer brush to like

1104
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 1: feather your hair with while you're going home. What we're

1105
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: the back You sit in the back seat and they

1106
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: just have the thing from the hair place. They just

1107
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: lowers over your That is the pinnacle of luxury that

1108
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: we can think of for the god the seventies. Alright.

1109
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: The bad news is, though this is very sad to

1110
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: stop laughing, between the time four decided to undergo that

1111
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: recall in June and the time it told consumers like

1112
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: internally and they said, all right June, we'll do this

1113
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: September we announced it to the public. In those few months, uh,

1114
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: there was a very very sad crash rear rear rear

1115
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: end you need another shot, No, a rear end impact

1116
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: where uh where some young women died. And there was

1117
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 1: a prosecutor in Indiana named Michael Constantino that said, uh,

1118
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: you know what, I've had it, I've done, I know

1119
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: the deal. I'm gonna bring these dudes on trial for murder. Murder,

1120
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: Like he filed criminal homicide charges against the executives that

1121
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,799
Speaker 1: Ford for that crash. Yeah, very big deal. Yeah so um,

1122
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: And that it wasn't just like a flash in the

1123
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: pan like this trial actually or these charges went to trial.

1124
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: It was over like three years. And over the three years,

1125
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: everybody was reporting on Ford executives on trial for murder

1126
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: every day and they the charges got dismissed, but the

1127
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: public criminalizing of Ford's executives were it was huge. Like

1128
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,759
Speaker 1: it was a bad PR crisis before that. It couldn't

1129
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: get worse than that your executives on trial for murder, right, yeah,

1130
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: for sure. So, um, despite all this, despite the fact

1131
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: that the Pinto wasn't flaming death trapped to a certain extent,

1132
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: when you look at the numbers today and when you

1133
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: look at the real statistics, uh, it was not much

1134
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: worse and sometimes better than other cars on the market

1135
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: at the time that would kill you from fire, like

1136
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 1: the Vega or the Gremlin. They would kill you, right,

1137
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: So we tried to figure out and actually, it turns

1138
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: out there was this article in Harvard Law Review where

1139
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: this guy said, Um, I've done the math. I've actually

1140
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 1: figured it out, and here's the number I came up with.

1141
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: It was seven twenty seven people is probably the number

1142
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: of people who died in low speed rear collision impact

1143
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 1: fires in Pintos. And it's over like ten years, like

1144
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: millions of cars. Twenty seven it's not that bad, actually, right, Um,

1145
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: it was way less than I think Mother Jones said

1146
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: like five hundred and nine hundred. And this is so

1147
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: Mother Jones. They said that was a conservative estimate that

1148
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: we just made up. And then I think sixty minutes,

1149
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: Chuck's beloved sixty minutes said, like, thousands of people had

1150
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: died in Pinto's no one knew, so they were just

1151
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: making up numbers. But this article said, no, it's probably

1152
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: twenty seven actually exactly. So uh. In the end, we

1153
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: look back and the Pinto was even though it could

1154
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: have been a flaming death trap, what it really was

1155
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 1: was a very bad victim of pr Yeah, you know, yep. So,

1156
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: like the problem was is that the way you could

1157
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: die in a Pinto was just too bad to be

1158
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: allowed to continue. Right. The idea that, like, if you've

1159
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 1: got an a rear end collision and the passenger compartment

1160
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,719
Speaker 1: filled up with gas, that's bad enough. But the idea

1161
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: that it could happen at such a low speed that

1162
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: you would still be conscious when you caught fire and

1163
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: burned to death. The American public said, dope, that can't happen.

1164
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, and so thanks to Dowie's article, um

1165
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: and sixty minutes, eventually the Pinto was basically laid to

1166
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,640
Speaker 1: waste as far as the American public was concerned, and

1167
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: still has a bad reputation today. That's right. In the end,

1168
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: the pins it took the real impact, but not not

1169
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: in the good way, not in the good way, in

1170
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 1: every kind of bad. You know, that's true. I never

1171
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: thought about that. Yeah. Uh so Indian Mr Lee I A.

1172
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: Coca would go on to write his legend with the

1173
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: christ Or Corporation by bringing them back from um kind

1174
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: of the brink of bankruptcy into huge success in the

1175
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: nineties and the eighties. And uh he was named I

1176
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: think by Portfolio magazine as the eighteenth gradest CEO of

1177
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 1: all time, just ahead of Oprah, which is both yes

1178
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: Team Oprah up here. I wrote a couple of books,

1179
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 1: wrote that biography that Josh talked about that Dolly Parton

1180
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 1: did not star in, and another call where how have

1181
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: all the Leaders Gone? And Mr Iacca is still alive today,

1182
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: The Rifled Age of ninety two and bel Air neighborhood

1183
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: of Los Angeles, California, where there is nary a Pinto

1184
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 1: to be found. That's right, and that is the story

1185
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: of the Ford Pinto. Yeah. Thanks, ye, well that one

1186
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: pretty well, chuck. Yeah. If you want to get in

1187
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 1: touch with us for any reason, you can tweet to

1188
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: us at s Y s K podcast. I'm at Josh

1189
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 1: um Clark and I also have a website called are

1190
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: You Series Clark dot com. Chuck's on Facebook at Charles W.

1191
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, or at Stuff you Should Know. UH. You

1192
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: can email us and Jerry to stuff podcast at how

1193
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: stiff Works dot com and has always joined us at

1194
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: Home on the Web Stuff you Should Know dot com

1195
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

1196
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: it how staff works dot com. M