1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Quody bus with Joseph s gotten More. It's a unique 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: position in this world to be given a choice, a choice, 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: a multiple choice, by the way of how your life 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: will end. I don't know that there are too many 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: people out there that are ever offered this opportunity. Most 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: of us, the line's share of us, don't know when 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: our time will come. But there is a person currently 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: on death row in the great state of South Carolina 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: who has been offered a chance at deciding his fate. 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: His choices are the electric chair, lethal injection, or the 11 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: firing squad, and as of the date of this recording, 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: he has essentially two to two and a half weeks 13 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: to make that decision. The man I'm talking about is 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Stephen Bryant. Stephen Bryant has been housed on death row 15 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time now in South Carolina. 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: But when I tell you what he has been convicted 17 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,639 Speaker 1: of and accused of, you're gonna understand why the state 18 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: of South Carolina wants to end his life. Coming to 19 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: you from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University, I 20 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: am Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags, Dave. I'm 21 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: not a big fan of buffets. I don't like buffets. 22 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: It gets too confusing. Just put something from it. I 23 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: don't eat a lot too much anymore anyway, high protein 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: and all of that. Kelena trying to. 25 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: Get help that you and I were on opposite ends 26 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: of the spectrum. I had no idea, but I don't 27 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: do buffet yet because of all the choices. 28 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: No, yeah, here you go, you do. 29 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: But you know, it gets to a point at some 30 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: point in time you feel like you're being slopped like 31 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: a hog. And you know, so gone through the days 32 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: of a fantastic buffets in Las Vegas, you know where 33 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: you would actually get something really cool. Now we're just 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: left would yuck. So yeah, so, and there's too much temptation. 35 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: I like to stay away from temptation because I'm easily tempted. 36 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: I give in to temptation. So but that's a story 37 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: for another day. This case that, and I'm saying case 38 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: because we're talking about essentially, I don't know dead men 39 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: walking here. 40 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: Now. 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: The reason Stephen Bryant is either going to face a 42 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: firing squad, electricture or lethal injection is because of one 43 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: murder that he committed. 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: But he went on a crime screen. 45 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: He did a crime buffet eighteen months after he got 46 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: out of prison on a burglary conviction. He becomes a 47 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 2: one man crime wave beginning October fifth, twenty two thousand 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: and four, ends up eight days later October thirteenth. He 49 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: commits his last crime of the spree, gets caught and 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 2: confesses to everything. 51 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 3: All right, so play this straight. 52 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: A day. 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: Reign of terror started eighteen months after his release from prison. 54 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: It made me think of Charlie Manson. When Manson was 55 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: up for parole in nineteen sixty seven after spending ten 56 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: years in prison for forging a forty three dollars treasury check, 57 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: Manson said he did not want out. 58 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: Do not let me out. This is my home. 59 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: And they made him leave, okay, and he goes to 60 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: Heyda Ashbury and there you go. It didn't take him long. 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: But I'm thinking about that with Stephen Bryant. He was 62 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: in prison for eighteen months, he gets out and the 63 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: same amount of time on the outside, and he goes 64 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: on this killing spree to put himself right back in prison. 65 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 2: That's all I can think of. He got arrested, confesses, 66 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: and that's where we start with Stephen Bryant. 67 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, hang on, hang on, hang on. I got to 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: tell you this escalated really quickly because you know, I 69 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: can only assume that if he is released from prison, 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: he has to check in with somebody, and if he violates, 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: he's going to go back. Why not go break the 72 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: windows out of storefronts or I don't know, steal cars 73 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: or something like that, So you want to go back 74 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: to prison. And again, that's just my supposition here that 75 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: he was institutionalized. We actually heard this term famously in 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: Shawshank Redemption, you know, from the character Red played by 77 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman, by the way, one of my favorite movies 78 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: of all time, where he says, I don't know anything different. 79 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: I'm institutionalized now. He even says, because you know, he 80 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: was a guy that could acquire things on the inside. 81 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: He said, I wouldn't even know how to get a 82 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: stick a gum on the outside. Is terrifying to me. 83 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: But your default position is to go and commit, admittedly, 84 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: commit three homicides, and they are absolutely they're so callous 85 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: in the way that they were done. We're talking about 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: randomized homicides here, but yet that's that's what you're going with. 87 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: If you want to get back on the inside so 88 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: that you know, you feel safe. You feel safe, so 89 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: you're going to go out and rob three other people 90 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: of their lives. To me, that's that's quite striking, I think, 91 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: you know, relative to this, and in all manner of 92 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: I think people would say explanations, I'd say excuses for behavior. 93 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: And we know that there's a big difference between explanations 94 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: and excuses, right, you know, everything from you know, he 95 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: was abused as a child. There are a lot of 96 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: people that are abused as children, you know, but he 97 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: just couldn't get that out of his mind that he's 98 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: abused as a child, and so he's he's going to 99 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 1: open up this very very dark door and go down 100 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: this road and exact I don't know, some measure of revenge, 101 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: perhaps on the person that abused him as a child, 102 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: on three innocent dudes that are out there. I don't know. 103 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: Maybe a psychiatrist will say, well, they're male victims, so 104 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: he's projecting. You know, I love it when they say projecting. 105 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: You know, he's projecting onto them. You know, the anger 106 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: that he had all bottled up, and wow, man, sounds 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: like I've heard this before from somewhere it just it's 108 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: like a loop that just kind of plays in everybody's 109 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: mind over these years. You know, you hear, you hear 110 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: these excuses for this kind of behavior, but now you 111 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: know he's in a position where he's he literally it 112 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: is literally an example of somebody having to pick their 113 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: poison if you will. 114 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know, Joe, the part about this story that 115 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: really kind of exploded, I mean, other than the fact 116 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: that it really was an eight day crimespreed that led 117 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: to the deaths of three men and near death experiences 118 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: of a few others, plus a number of burglaries, but 119 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: with the crime that he was sentenced to death for, 120 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: he actually dipped a potholder into the victim's blood and wrote, 121 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: catch me if you can. The media latches onto certain 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: aspects of a crime that they can run with, and 123 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: this is one of them. And now I'm kind of 124 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: thinking about Manson again. You know, when they wrote on 125 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: the different murders associated with the Manson family, they were 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: writing in the victim's blood, same thing. So I just 127 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: I guess my real problem with this is that we're 128 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: talking about this because it's an execution, and whereas Stephen 129 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: Brian's victims didn't have any say and what was going 130 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: to happen to them or when it was going to happen, 131 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 2: and he disgraces everything by dipping a potholder in blood 132 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: and write and catch me if you can. Meanwhile, he 133 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: gets to choose how he's going to die, and we 134 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: have to be concerned. I'm serious, man, We ought to 135 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: just put in this leap shoot him in the back 136 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: of the head. 137 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: Why is it an initiative? 138 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's you know, and here's another tragedy that kind 139 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: of accompanies this along the way, is that he is 140 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: gifted I use that term gifted. He's gifted the opportunity 141 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: to get right beforehand. Now that can be either spiritually 142 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: get right, it can be get right from a relationship 143 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: standpoint where he has this period of time where he 144 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: can to peace, whatever that means for an individual on 145 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: death row, come to peace and come to terms with 146 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: what's about happened these you know, these individuals that did 147 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: not have that opportunity. Uh, you know, their life was stolen, 148 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, at the hand of this individual. And and 149 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: going back to what you had mentioned about the potholder, 150 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: this gentleman T. J. Tasian, Uh that he executed this 151 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 1: man in his home. And by the way, this subject 152 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: feigned having car trouble and went and asked this man 153 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: if he could help him, and he's allowed into this 154 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: man's house. This man, you know, just out of the blue. Yeah, 155 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: in Sumter County, South Carolina. It's, you know, kind of 156 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: an isolated area. You notice he didn't go up to 157 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: some armed citizen, you know, like a cop or somebody 158 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: like that and try to do this. He goes to 159 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: a guy in a rural area. I don't know this man. 160 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know him. His family did very well. 161 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the victim here TJ probably you 162 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: know southern hospitality. Yeah, man, you need help, I'll be 163 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: glad to help you. In the next thing, you know, 164 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: darkness and oblivion. His life is ended. Here's another little 165 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: diddy about this guy. Not only did he actually did 166 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: Bryant actually write on the wall in blood catch me 167 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: if you can. There's a little precursor to this as well, 168 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: when he wrote on the wall that dig this this 169 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: is really spying tingling if you will victim four in 170 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: two weeks, catch me if you can. Amazing And this 171 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: was actually written on the wall in this man's house. 172 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: And as another little aside, he spelled victim wrong by 173 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: the way, so I don't know how much learning he 174 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: had had early on. And yeah, I mean people can say, well, 175 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: you're shaming this man. Now, I'm telling you what the 176 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: reality is of what you're faced with here. You've got 177 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: somebody that has made a free will decision to do this. 178 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: I don't care how many ghosts you might be haunted 179 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: by in your life. I don't care about the imbalances 180 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: in your medication or lack of not taking your medication. 181 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: You made free will choice. Now that doesn't necessarily mean 182 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: that I agree completely with the death penalty. From my 183 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: personal perspective, I've been involved in death penalty cases. I've 184 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: stood over the bodies of people that were victims that 185 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: wound up wound up being part of a capital murder trial. 186 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: I've stood over the bodies of individuals that have been executed, 187 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: you know, and helped to do the autopsies in those cases. 188 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: But what it does come down to, I think at 189 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: the end of the day, with any kind of case 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: like this, is that there is a touch of evil 191 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: that I don't know that we even have the ability 192 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: to measure an act may be a sense of absence 193 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: of remorse and a callousness towards those of us that 194 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: want to lend a helping hand and receive nothing, nothing 195 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: but a gunshot wound to the back of our head 196 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: in return. Well, this is another case out of South Carolina. 197 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: South Line has certainly produced a number of things in 198 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: the news over the past few years, you know, everything 199 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: from Murdau to a variety of other cases that you 200 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: and I have covered, you know, in true crime. I 201 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: think one thing that really stands out to me is, 202 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you recall this, brother, but they 203 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, I think it was in April 204 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five they sentenced, are carried out the 205 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: execution of a fellow there, Maddy I think was his name, 206 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: Matty uh McCall maddy. Remember they strapped him down in 207 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: the chair and they had the three the three correctional 208 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: individuals that you know that that fired rounds at this guy. 209 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: And I'm saying I'm being generous by saying that, because 210 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: one completely missed and you know, too struck. But they 211 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: were essentially ineffective. This guy languished for some time at 212 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: the ends of these muzzles after they had been you know, 213 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: they popped off these rounds. I think he lasted for 214 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: like ninety seconds. And you know, I'd been I'd appeared 215 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: I can't remember where it was. I'd appeared on some 216 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: program talking about gunshot wounds and relative to firing squads, 217 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, because that's come up in conversations, obviously particularly 218 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: adjacent to the most recent unpleasantness in Idaho, because we're 219 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about that, and there's some future 220 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: ones that people are talking about as well, going back 221 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: to Utah and the Charlie Kirk case. And I'm not 222 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: talking about Charlie's homicide. I'm talking about what the prosecutor 223 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: said that he intends to do in Utah to the 224 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: accused in that case. The reason I'd been brought on 225 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: to chat about these things was the effectiveness, or the 226 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: level of lethality of firearms being utilized for execution. And 227 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, Dave, to me, from a 228 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: level of efficiency, it would seem that the firing squad 229 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: would be right on the money. But you know, the 230 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: rounds that are fired down range are only as effective 231 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: as individual operating weapon platform. I hope I hope that 232 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: if this comes comes through, because the state Supreme Court 233 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: in South Carolina has ruled that his execution is going 234 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: to take place in November, now this thing can be 235 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: bumped up the line further. I would assume to you know, 236 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: to the US Supreme Court, which I think naturally happens, 237 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: and there could be a governor pardon our stay, not pardon, 238 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: but a stay in the execution, or you know, converting 239 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: his sentence to life sentence perhaps, But just from a 240 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: technical standpoint, I hope that the State of South Carolina 241 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: has made improvements if this is the modality they're going 242 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: to go with in this case, because you know, they've 243 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: had problems. They did a and I found this quite interesting. 244 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: South Carolina up until last year had had a thirteen 245 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: year and I get this, a thirteen year self imposed 246 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: moratorium on capital punishment. And one of the reasons was 247 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: was that their default position had always been lethal injection, 248 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: and they were giving double doses of phenobarbital, which you 249 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: know it has been used in a lot of cases. 250 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: It's generally a drug mixture, but in this case in 251 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: South Carolina, they're pushing two buluses of phoeni barb and 252 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: the lack of reliability in their drug delivery, you know, 253 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: kind of put them back on their heels. They were 254 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: saying it's cruel and unusual, But I got to tell you, 255 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: equally cruel and unusual is, you know, missing a person's 256 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: heart when you're at a very very short range with 257 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: a rifled weapon firing through gun ports. I'm assuming where 258 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: you can target the individual. And here's the other thing, 259 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: the anatomically. Anatomically, as someone is seated in the chair, 260 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: they do an anatomical marking on the body, you know, 261 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: like a patch of paper that overlies the heart, so 262 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: that you can specifically target into that location. And this 263 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: is not a difficult shot with a thirty caliber rifle 264 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: from a very very very short, short distance. I just 265 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: hope that if this is what they're doing from a 266 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: procedural standpoint, that they've first off selected new p and 267 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: secondly have taken them to the range to train them. 268 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: Joe, that was crazy, you know. 269 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: Braillen and I went camping last weekend at a father 270 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: grandfather son thing where we got to shoot targets with 271 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: twenty two's and we actually went skeet shooting with shotguns. 272 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: I didn't Breaklyn did and on the second skeet. Second time, 273 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 2: he's doing it his entire life. He hits it. I'm 274 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: telling you the guy's good. But he's ten years old. 275 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: He's a better marksman. Joe, you mentioned something about having 276 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: to perform autopsies on a person who was executed, and 277 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: are I guess you're being serious, right, Why would you 278 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: do an X? Why would you have to do an autopsy. 279 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: To rule out abuse? That bottom line, that's the reason 280 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: it's done. Bottom line is to rule out any kind 281 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: of abuse that may have occurred while this person was incarcerated. 282 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: And I might be overstepping my bounds here, I think 283 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: that this is accurate. I think that in any state 284 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: where they do have death uh the death penalty on 285 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: the on the books, I think that it is required 286 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: under law to do a post mortem examination. I know 287 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: in Georgia, which is where I was involved in in 288 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: those examinations. We you know, I think I participated in three, 289 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. 290 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: Uh. 291 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: One, let me get this straight. I think one was 292 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: an electrocution and two were lethal injections. And so you say, well, 293 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: why would you want to do that? Well, it goes 294 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: to this idea of cruel and unusual punishment if and 295 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: this is it's always kind of a philosophical conundrum. I 296 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: think for many people, you know, there's always that old adage, 297 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: we need to we need to get this person healthy 298 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: so that we can kill them. Have you ever heard 299 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: people talk about that if somebody has like, uh, some 300 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: type of physical malady or something like this, we want 301 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: to get them healthy so that we can, you know, 302 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: so that we can end their life. I you know, 303 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: you sit there and the procedure for these autopsies is 304 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: much more extensive than the procedures involved in a standard autopsy. 305 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: I mean, every every inch of the of the subject's 306 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: body is dissected. And I'm talking about you know, you 307 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: normally think of us doing standard why inc why incision 308 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: and a morgue, removing the organs of the chest and 309 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: the abdominal cavity. We're opening the head, you know, we're 310 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: taking out the brain, We're doing all these sorts of things. 311 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: But I'm talking about, you know, you're going to the 312 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: extremities to do dissections to rule out that there's any 313 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: any type of hemorrhage that has taking place, even on 314 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: the soles of the feet. Actually had one of my 315 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: students asked me about this the other day because we're 316 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: doing gross anatomical dissections now here in the forensics program 317 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: at jack State, and we actually got onto this topic. 318 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: And so why would you you know, why would you 319 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: want to examine the soles of the feet? Well, the 320 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: reason you do that is that, uh, there's actually torture 321 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: methodology out there where the ankles are restrained and the 322 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: bottoms of the feet are are struck, and you can 323 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: find evidence of trauma. You can see you know, contusions, 324 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things, the backs of the hands, 325 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: palms of the hands, all of these in the back, 326 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, your anterior chest, the buttocks, the buttocks is 327 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: actually dissected, the backs of the legs, the whole nine yards. 328 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: So that's you know, that's what And I'm assuming that 329 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: that would happen in South Carolina. They would do an 330 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: extensive post mornum examination on the subject after they have 331 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: been executed. I can only imagine, like with the aforementioned 332 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 1: case where we had this subject that whoever you know, 333 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: fired that weapon and they had a fly er. What 334 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: people that go to range a lot say, I had 335 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: a flyer, and that means they missed the target, or 336 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: they missed the target. They may have hit the paper target, 337 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: but it wasn't center mass or whatever the case. However, 338 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: they measure their own skill. My skill is not very good. 339 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: I'm a horrible shot, but they'll get a flyer. And 340 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: I can only imagine the pathologists standing there at the 341 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: table and saying, you know, because these are things you 342 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: act ask ask in, like homicide is taking taking place 343 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: on the street where you might have an ear witness 344 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: that heard three or four shots, and you say, wait, 345 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: we've got a group of people that are standing here 346 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: that are all witnesses to this. We know procedurally what 347 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: is required, and I've only got two gunshot ones and 348 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: they're not on target. Where's the third? What happened to 349 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: the third? Well, we're going to have to go out 350 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 1: and determine that, you know, something else that I've kind 351 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: of tore with them my mind from a forensic standpoint 352 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: regarding that case in specific, since this was ordained by 353 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: the State of South Carolina and they had the proceed 354 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: they've got to have an sp You know, any organization 355 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: you or I have ever worked in, there's an sop 356 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: for everything, right, this is the way that you will do. 357 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: There's a recipe to avoid getting fired, all right, or 358 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: getting accused of something. They've got to have an sop 359 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: for this. I really wonder if if they called in 360 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: a team from SLED from the South Carolina Law Enforcement, 361 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: which a fine organization did great work. I wonder if 362 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: they brought those guys in to do a shooting reconstruction. 363 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: You thought about that they actually go into the execution 364 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: chamber here and they're pulling trajectories to try to find 365 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: out where the flyer was and document this thing, because 366 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: it's so it's so bizarre that you could have somebody 367 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: at such a short range with the shoulder fired arm, 368 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: a rifle shoulder fire arm, and they can't hit center masks. 369 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: They could have gone down the road to Paris Island 370 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: and pulled a recruit, pulled a recruit that had already 371 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: gone through firing range phase down there with the Marine 372 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: Corps and brought them in and you know, they could 373 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: have done it easily with iron sights with no problem whatsoever. 374 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: You know, And I'm thinking, who you know, Who's who's 375 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: you know? Kind of who's who's making the decisions here? 376 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: The reason I'm I'm kind of going on about it. 377 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: Then prattling on about this is that you're saying that 378 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: you want to avoid cruel and unusual. You're saying that 379 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: you want to make these things more efficient. Well, what 380 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: you have demonstrated in your previous test run and it's 381 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: not a test, but in your previous run at this 382 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: is that there is an absolute lack of efficiency. And 383 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: it can be implied by some right lawyer out there 384 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: that this is cruel and unusual because when you see 385 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: the results of this guy and look, you know, this 386 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: guy committed horrible crime that wound up being executed. But 387 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: the flip side to this is you're going to fly 388 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: the plane into the side of the mountain because you've 389 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: screwed up again. You know, they have a problem with 390 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: the electric chair because you know, we've had people in 391 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: the past and you don't have to believe me, go 392 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: look it up. There's the images where people catch on fire, 393 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: you know, with with and they get nasty injuries and 394 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't always work the first time around. You've got 395 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: these problems with lethal injection, You've got problems with lethal injection, 396 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: and now now you've got a problem with firing squad 397 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: here and you're going to roll this out again. I'll 398 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: be very interested to watch this case, first off, to 399 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: see if it actually does in fact go forward, but 400 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: secondarily to see if the methodology has been improved. So 401 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: here we are again, Dave. We're talking about talking about 402 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: an execution, our appending execution of this fellow in South Carolina. 403 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: The most important thing I think to revisit here is 404 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: the fact that and it trumps. It trumps any concerns 405 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: I have about Stephen Bryant or the actual victims here, Joe. 406 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: I don't mean to seem cold, but I have to. 407 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: I think about the victims and the victims' families as 408 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: we spend so much time worrying about the criminals, and 409 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: why are we spending so much time worrying about their comfort? 410 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: And again I'm not trying to be mean. 411 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: I don't want them tortured or anything like that, but really, 412 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: you're you're gonna have to explain why we can't just 413 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: use propofol. Okay, the same thing Michael Jackson used, and 414 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: it puts them to sleep. You put it in an ivy, 415 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 2: they go to sleep, lop their head off. It doesn't 416 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: matter what you use to do that make it quick 417 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: but they're asleep already. They're asleep. They don't know. 418 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: Have you seen have you seen these people on online? 419 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: While say online on these on these reels, they there's 420 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: actually it's not a challenge, but they they have that 421 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: and I can't imagine they actually do this in surgery. 422 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: They allow this in surgery, but they do. It's going 423 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: on everywhere, you know, surgery, the surgery, sweet to me, 424 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: is always seen sacri sainct. It's it's like walking into 425 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: a sanctuary to church. You know, it's like, I don't 426 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: want any tom foolery going on. But you know they're 427 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: they're doing the scene where they fight an seesia. Have 428 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: you seen this? And they'll and and the person will 429 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: be there, the patient, and they tell them they're you know, 430 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: and they'll make a statement. They'll say, okay, I'm fighting 431 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: the anesthesia. I'm going to try to you know, stay 432 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: awake for as long as I possibly can. And you know, 433 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: and you see them begin, you know, kind of fade 434 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: out like this and they can't. You know, they and 435 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: some people, now there are some people that will continue 436 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: to enumerate as they're going along. They're counting or they're 437 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: having a conversation all of a sudden it kind of 438 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: drifts off, and some last longer than others. I guess 439 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: that's dependent upon their own physiology and the dosages and 440 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: all that stuff that's involved with that. But yeah, I 441 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: mean understand what you're saying about, you know, trying to 442 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: make this and I think that early on with with 443 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: with lethal injection, it seemed like the most kind and 444 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: gentle way to do this. And there are actually a 445 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: lot of people that are involved in the UH in 446 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: the well, some people call it self deliverance, it's not 447 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: what I call it, but in the movement to end lives. 448 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: You know, in other countries, you know, they'll administer these 449 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: drugs and with great, great effectiveness. By the way, of 450 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: course that's not controlled by our judiciary. But you know, 451 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we're still talking about 452 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, who died at this guy's hands, Dave. 453 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: You know I mentioned earlier when you were talking about 454 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 2: the buffet. I can't get that out of my head. 455 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: When Stephen Brian got out of prison, we don't really 456 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 2: know everything he did for eighteen months, but we do 457 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 2: know that after a year and a half he decides, 458 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: I mean, he makes a conscious decision here to start 459 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: a life of crime all over again. On October fifth, 460 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: two thousand and four, in South Carolina, he commits a burglary. 461 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: There were two on the same day, actually, but this 462 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: is how it went down. He ended up in prison 463 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 2: the very first time was for burglary. He comes out, 464 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: he's out of prison for a year and a half, 465 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 2: and he starts right away burglary again. Three days after 466 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: he commits the first burglary, October the eighth, he commits 467 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: a second burglary and shoots a fisherman named Clinton Brown. 468 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: He shot him in the back because that's kind of coward. 469 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: Stephen Bryant is now. Clinton Brown survived, He didn't die. 470 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 2: He survived, but he was shy in the back. A 471 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: couple of days the next day, actually October the ninth, 472 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: Stephen Bryant goes to a coworker's house, Cliff Ganey. He 473 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: picks Cliff up, takes him to a convenience store. They 474 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: get a couple of adult beverages and go for a drive, 475 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: and Cliff Ganey gets shot three times and left on 476 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: the side of the road dead. Stephen Bryant then goes 477 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: back to his house because he knows nobody's there, and 478 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: he robs the place. This is a coworker, this is 479 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: a friend of his. Takes his time because nobody's home. 480 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 2: October eleventh, two days after he thinks he has killed 481 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 2: mister Ganey, Bryan kills the guy we're talking about earlier, 482 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: Willard Tajan, they call him TJ. Dagan was sixty two 483 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: years old. And this is the guy who lived in 484 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: a very rural area off the road. And Stephen Brian 485 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: shows up at the house, knocks on the door, Hey man, 486 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: I got car trouble. Can you help me out? And 487 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: then Brian ends up shooting Tasan nine times. He ransacks 488 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: the man's house looking for items to steal, and since 489 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: he was there by himself with mister Tasan and Tajan's dead, 490 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: he sits around smoking cigarettes, smokes a cigar, and even 491 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: answers the phone because Tasan's wife and daughter were calling. 492 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: Stephen Briant answers the phone and actually tells the daughter, Yeah, 493 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: come on, I killed him. He's dead. He tells him 494 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: that on the phone, I killed your dad. While he's there, 495 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: Joe and I have to ask you something because one 496 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 2: of the things that came out. Is that Stephen Bryant 497 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: actually put cigarettes out in the eyes of mister Tasan 498 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: cigarettes out in the eyes? Is there any way to 499 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: determine if it was done before he was dead or after? 500 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: I mean, can you tell when it was done if 501 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: he was alive when he was having a cigarette stuck 502 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: in his eye? 503 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: Yes, there is, you know, we we can I hate 504 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: to use this term, we can visualize it. And that's 505 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, how the diagnosis would be made anti mortem 506 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: versus post mortem. Just if it's done in an anti 507 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: mortemar and our friends here on bodybacks that listen to 508 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: us regularly understand the difference between any moretem postmar there 509 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: is at a cellular level, if this had been done, 510 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: if this had been done in life and in the 511 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: anti mortem state, at a cellular level, there would be 512 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: a reaction or response at that level, and we would 513 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: be able to appreciate that. And of course the longer 514 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: it goes, the more reactive, you know, you start to 515 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: see other various responses physiologically. But again here we go again, 516 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, and around and around we go with desecration 517 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: of human remains. We just have talked about this and 518 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: I have to revisit this again. There is an indication 519 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: of a certain level, a new certain level of evil 520 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: in our world that it's not brother, it's not enough 521 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: to kill somebody. This is it's you know, people have 522 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: used the term in the past blood lust. Well, the 523 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: dead don't bleed, you know what, what kind of lust 524 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: does this at this point in time? And I'm not 525 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: using that in a sexualized manner. I'm just saying, like, 526 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: if you're desiring, if it is a desire of your 527 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: your heart, your spirit, your mind, whatever it is, what 528 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: what's the need are you trying to demonstrate how angry 529 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: you are, like some petulant child, you know, busting their 530 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: toys up, or you know, breaking something around the house, 531 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: or you know somebody that's you know, doing harm to 532 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: just random people walking up down the street. You know, 533 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: we see a lot of people, you know, punching people randomly. 534 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: You're doing this to the dead now, And for me, 535 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a real insight into human depravity, 536 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: I think, and I don't I got to tell you, 537 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: I think this is further evidence of there's a train 538 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: coming down the track and I don't see it slowing 539 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: down on any level because this stuff keeps happening. Now, 540 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: this happened back in two thousand and four, if I'm 541 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: remembering correctly, This case happened back in two thousand and four. 542 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: But since that point in time, I think that you 543 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: and I and again it might be just anecdotal on 544 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: our part because you and I cover so many cases, 545 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: but there seems to be an increase, certainly since two 546 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: thousand and four in these kinds of cases where where 547 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: bodies are desecrated, and it just it just keeps going 548 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: on and on and on. You know, my old saying 549 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: about there is no basement in the house of depravity. 550 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: It just it goes deeper and deeper and deeper. And 551 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: one thing, you know, people say one thing leads to another, 552 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: but you know, I don't, you know, I don't know. 553 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: I mean, what's on board next? Cannibalism? And I mean 554 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: obviously there's been cases that in the past. But yeah, 555 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean, we just keep you know, we just keep 556 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: going on and on. And listen, we covered ed Geen, right, 557 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of weeks ago, I think, and 558 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: and listen, he was depraved, he was a necrophile. But 559 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: back then, in that context ed Gean was was certainly 560 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: the exception and not the norm. The world that we 561 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: live in now, we have no idea what's going on 562 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: out there. We really don't anywhere around us right now 563 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: as we are speaking right now, we have no idea 564 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: about the level of depravity. People you know, will ask me, 565 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: do you ever do you ever run out of material? 566 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 1: You know, for things that you're going to cover? Dave, 567 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 1: I think that probably you better than I can attest 568 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: to the fact that that we can't plumb the depths. 569 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: There's stuff that is referred to us that we ask, 570 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: that our friends ask us to cover, and we we 571 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: can't get to it because we're drowning. You know, in 572 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: cases over and over again, we think that are going 573 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: to have some kind of forensic value and some kind 574 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: of narrative value where we can tell the tale of 575 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: these victims, and the victims are, in fact the most 576 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: important part. It's not. It's not the killer in this case. 577 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: And that's why this case is so important for body 578 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: backs to cover, for you and I to cover, because 579 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, when you 580 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: search out TJ's name in a Google search, it is not, 581 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: in fact TJ's name that comes up it's the perpetrator's 582 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: name that comes up, Dave. And I don't know where 583 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: this road is going to wind up, because I know 584 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: that probably and I haven't done a scientific study, but 585 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: it would seem that there is a significant, statistically significant 586 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: group of people in our country that want folks held 587 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: accountable for horrible crimes. And we have a tradition of 588 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: the death penalty here in the US. And for a 589 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: while the plug was pulled on it and it wasn't there, 590 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: But now it's back again, and I've read some studies 591 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: where people welcome, welcome the fact that it's here. And 592 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: of course I've got friends of mine that, you know, 593 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: think that it's the most diverse thing in the world. 594 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: But either way, if you know, if you're going to 595 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: do this, if you're going to do it, you better 596 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: make sure that all your ducks are in a row 597 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: and that no one can point their finger at you 598 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: and say that this was in fact cruel and unusual. 599 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: You need to make sure that the methodology that you 600 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: finally settle on is going to be straight and to 601 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: the point and on target. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and 602 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: this is bodybags