1 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. When I was a 2 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: little boy, would beat at my granny's house every Easter 3 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: Eastern night. It would have been a Sunday night every 4 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: single year without fail. The movie with Charlton Heston, The 5 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: Ten Commandments would play, and it was a big deal. 6 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Is before the days of VHS and certainly d v 7 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: d s, it was a really big deal. You know, 8 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: you watch that is almost magical. But there there was 9 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: one part in that movie that just absolutely terrified me 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: as a child, and of course I think that it 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: was meant to. And that's when the Israelites had to 12 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: go out and paint their door with Lamb's blood to 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: prevent the Angel of Death from taking the firstborn child. 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: An angel of Death was terrifying. It kind of swooped 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: down over that collection of slaves and you could hear 16 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: the screaming off in the distance. The Murdock case, I've 17 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: come to think of them in that way, almost like 18 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: every place they go, everything they do, it seems as 19 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: though that somebody passes away. What are the odds, What 20 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: are the odds that you would have five not just two, 21 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: but five violent deaths that in some way have connectivity 22 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: to that family. Today, we're gonna have a discussion about 23 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: this death and the upcoming trial with Alex Murdoc. I'm 24 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags. My good 25 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: friend Dave mac is joining me today. Dave's with crom Online. 26 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: It's good to have you on the show with me today, Dave. 27 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: How are you doing? My friends doing fantastic And I 28 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: just appreciate you letting me a part of this. Ever 29 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: since you started. I wanted to be on the show 30 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: with you, ever since I thought, well, I thought we 31 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: were friends. Man, what happened? That's great to have you well, Joseph, 32 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: you have you have followed this story. You've done a 33 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: couple of deep dives on the show so far, and 34 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from them. But when you actually 35 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: take and separate them one at a time, they're not 36 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: that remarkable in and of themselves. There I mean, granted, 37 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I mean, murder is a horrible thing, and we've got 38 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: a number of dead bodies here, but it's when you 39 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: put them all together that's where it just holy moldy 40 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: what you mentioned it? What are the odds? I can't 41 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: name more than two and people I know who have 42 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: ever had anything like that, But you're talking five Yeah, yeah, 43 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: it's a lot. I mean it is. And if a 44 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: statistician was out there and you were asking them to 45 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: run the numbers as it were on this case, it's 46 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: mind blowing when you consider the overall total populace of 47 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: these areas. Talking to you got to throw that in, Yeah, 48 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: you have to, because there's certainly isolation here. These people 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: live out in a rural area. I mean the whole 50 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: area is rural. That's one of the things. So it's 51 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: beautiful countryside when you go down there, and you know 52 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: it's the low country. It's near the ocean, and you've 53 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: got the live oaks and low hanging Spanish moss, and 54 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: the air so thick and cut it because the humidity. 55 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: But there's a sweetness to it. But there's real dark 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: side to this because of all of these deaths. And 57 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: you had mentioned that we had done a deep dive 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: on bodybags. I think early on we had talked about 59 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: the desk, Paul and Maggie. Look, we we've talked about 60 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: this case for some time. We we thought that we 61 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: had all of the pieces in place, We thought that 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: we knew some things but amazingly, right before this trial, 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: a document has actually come into our possession that reveals 64 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: so much more about what may have happened that night, 65 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: at least what was left behind, what evidence was found 66 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: there at the scene, adjacent those dog kennels, and within 67 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: them that evidence that could be observed on the bodies 68 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: of Maggie and Paul. It's been said over the years, 69 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: if you want to know how somebody is gonna treat you, 70 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: if you want an indication and insight into who somebody is, 71 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: get around them and their family. See how they treat 72 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: those that they should love more than anybody else in 73 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: the world. Right now, Alex murderog he said in a 74 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: jail cell, and pretty soon he's gonna be going to trial. 75 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: And the reason he's going to trial is that he 76 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: has been accused, and he has been indicted for a 77 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: double homicide. And it's not strangers, it's his wife, Maggie 78 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: and his son Paul. In arguably one of the most 79 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: heinous crimes. I think that, certainly in this little slice 80 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: the world that they've ever experienced, ever born witness to. 81 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: And Dave, I gotta tell you, you talk about an 82 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: event that has rocked this area. This is something that 83 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: will be spoken of for years and years and years, 84 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: regardless of what the outcome of the trial will be. 85 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: This is something that has left a deep, deep scar 86 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: in this community. Joe, we've talked about the family. Okay, 87 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: We've got the death of Stephen Smith tied to Paul 88 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand fifteen. We've got Gloria Sadderfield February two 89 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. We have Mallory Beach February two thousand nineteen. 90 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: Those three deaths in and of themselves, one at a time, 91 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: anyone could maybe be explained to a degree. But when 92 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: you tie them all together, and you land on June seven, 93 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: and you have Maggie Murdach, the wife of Alex Murdoch, 94 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: and her twenty year old son, Paul. Paul's the one 95 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,559 Speaker 1: tied to Stephen Smith. Paul's the one tied to Mallory Beach. 96 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: Maggie not tied to Gloria Sadderfield, but she was there. 97 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: She was the first person to go to Gloria Sadderfield 98 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: to day Gloria fell. They're both at their own safe place. 99 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: They called it the Lodge, the place where Maggie and 100 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: Paul were found by Alex Murdah, Yeah, a lot of 101 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: the use. And I'm not talking about the timeline all 102 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: right with with the event, that's something separate. I'm talking 103 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: about that the non eleven calls. Something that kind of 104 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: cued me in on this to begin with was the 105 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: fact that when the call is placed by this man 106 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: out there and again write you were, you know, he's 107 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: in the presence of these two people whom you would 108 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: think that he would love more than anything in the world. 109 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: There's a pause when none one one is called, and 110 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: you can hear the operator clearly. There's no talking over 111 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: the operator, there's no screaming, there's no shouting, and many 112 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: times what you will have I've heard it for years 113 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: now listening to these tapes. You'll hear people that will 114 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: be completely intelligible because they're screaming and the operators saying, well, cat, 115 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: catch your breath, catch your breath, Calm down, calm calm down. 116 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: But when you listen to this recording of this man, 117 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: it's very thin the sound of his voice, and it 118 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: sounds there's not a lot of passion, their passion that 119 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: would normally be associated with an individual that had just 120 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: observed the bullet ridden bodies of a spouse that he 121 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: has been married to for a protracted period of time, 122 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: a spouse who he probably was at the hospital when 123 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: she gave birth to his children, and his son is 124 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: laying immediately adjacent out there to to his feed room 125 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: for his dogs at this kennel that he has where 126 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: he keeps these hunting dogs out there. And just the 127 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: fact that there's an absence of that there was very 128 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: striking to me, very striking. Now. I just I couldn't. 129 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: There's just something that seemed off to it. I just couldn't. 130 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't factor it in like like I thought that 131 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: I could. Now that they've charged him, I'm thinking that 132 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: the police probably know a bit and more than certainly 133 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: all of us know at this point. There's some stuff 134 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: that has come out, but we we don't know everything yet. 135 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: But Buddy, I gotta tell you, that train's come down 136 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: a track. We're about to find out everything that happened 137 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: at night and everything that they found out there at 138 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: that scene. We know Maggie talked to a divorce It 139 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: is said that she was lured that she apparently expressed 140 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: to more than one person that she did not want 141 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: to meet with Alex at night. That's going to come 142 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: up at trial. But the bottom line here is somehow 143 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: Alex Murdock claims that he was with his father at 144 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: the hospital, been visited his mother about twenty minutes from 145 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: the Moselle home where this took place, that he was 146 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: twenty minutes away checking on his mother because she has dementia, 147 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: and that he went to the home and when he 148 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: got there he finds this carnage. Okay, now, Joe, you 149 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: told me something about these murders that I I don't 150 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: know how I missed it. You've got his wife, a 151 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: stranger down out. This is somebody who built your life 152 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: with and have children with. They know everything about you 153 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: laying there shot. You're a twenty year old son also shot. 154 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: But you told me they were shot with different weapons. Yeah, 155 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: yeah they were. And listen for those in the audience 156 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: has served in military, served in a done tom in 157 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: law enforcement, you know that there's essentially two primary types 158 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: of weapons. You've got long arms or shoulder fired on arms. 159 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: You're talking about rifles and shotguns, and then you have 160 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: side arms, which are pistols. And that that's the most 161 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: basic way I can kind of break it down. Yeah, 162 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of exotic stuff out there. We can 163 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: go down that road, but for our purpose is to 164 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: day on body backs. We're talking about the two weapon 165 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: platforms that were out there. You have a shotgun and 166 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: you have what the police have identified as a rifle. Okay, now, 167 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: both of these weapons were utilized. And this is this 168 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: is kind of an odd thing because they have charged 169 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:40,479 Speaker 1: Alex Murda and Alex Murdal alone alone in these homicides. 170 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: There's nobody else associated with it to the best of 171 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: our knowledge. And the defense is gonna say, we're gonna 172 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: raise possibilities, but for the purposes of prosecution on the 173 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: part of the state, this is the only person's charge. 174 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: So it begs this question, who shows up with two 175 00:10:54,840 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: weapons that are equally capable of ending somebody's life? Why 176 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: would you need another weapon, another shoulder fired arm? How 177 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: clumsy is is it? Well, it's it's very clumsy because 178 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: dependent upon the type of shotgun that you're using, it's 179 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: rather robust. The ammo that's required, your ability to load it, 180 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: handle it, manage it, and and yeah, they all come 181 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: in different links. You can have kind of a weapon 182 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: that has a pistol grip on it. That's a that's 183 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: a shotgun that operates as a pump action shotgun. It's 184 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: a bit shorter than other types you have. You have 185 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: tactical shotguns that have shorter barrels. Then you have guns 186 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: that are commonly used for hunting, hunting bird and you 187 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: can you can hunt deer with him. That's where the 188 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: term buckshot comes from. But we do know this. A 189 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: shotgun was used to kill Paul, and one of the 190 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: documents that we've come across describes just this ghastly injury 191 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: according to one of the individuals that works with State, 192 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: and the way he describes it is that Paul was 193 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: struck in the chest. Now that this is kind of 194 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: a nuanced thing, you know, I want to explain this. 195 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: I love to throw in a little a little bit 196 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: of information many times about kind of the vernacular that 197 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: you used in medical legal death investigation. When you hear 198 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: a forensic pathologists describe an injury to a chest, one 199 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: of the questions that you should be asking next is 200 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: that the anterior chest or the posterior chest because forensic 201 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: pathologists don't say the word back. I don't know if 202 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: people know that, but the area of particularly that is 203 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: tween your shoulder blades. Okay, they referred to that as 204 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: the posterior chest, and then you have the anterior chest 205 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: the front. Okay. Now, it would seem that in this case, 206 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: at least at least what I'm reading and hearing, and 207 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: this is kind of second hand, it would appear that 208 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: Paul sustained an initial shotgun blasted the chest. And then 209 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: it turns if that's not horrible enough, it turns to 210 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: kind of this ghastly event where there's an injury that 211 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: he has described that involves the shoulder, the neck, and 212 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: the skull. One of the descriptors that is used, and 213 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: it's this is coming from somebody that is a non physician. 214 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: When they're saying this, the brain is no longer attached 215 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: to the body, I can tell you that that's not 216 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: the way of forensic pathologists would say that. They would 217 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: say that the brain was extruding from the cranial vault, 218 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: or they would say the brain is absent from the 219 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: cranial vault and lies in a particulate state adjacent to 220 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: the body on the ground. They're not gonna say the 221 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: brain is detached from the body. So I kind of 222 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: questioned the verbe there, But suffice it to say that 223 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: they're saying that there is two shotgun wounds, one to 224 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: the chest, and they're calling this in this report that's 225 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: out in the media right now, that this was the 226 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: initial blast. So we've got a sequen scene that's going on. 227 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: So you know, what can we take away from that? 228 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: If that is the gospel truth that was Paul initially 229 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: blasted in the chest. He goes to the ground and 230 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: then the perpetrator stands over him, kind of over to 231 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: the side. If you would imagine a person lying face 232 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: down and fires again kind of obliquely, and the round 233 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: enters through the shoulder, goes through the neck, and then 234 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: blows out the back of the skull. Because what they're 235 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: saying is the head is completely blown apart, but you 236 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: can his face is still there and quite ghastly. And 237 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: this thing's in the news media right now. I don't 238 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: know how this was this it came out in Discovery. 239 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: I find that kind of fascinating because that goes to 240 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: kind of the dynamics of what happened. You had mentioned earlier, 241 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,119 Speaker 1: was was Maggie lured out there was Paul an intended 242 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: target had something occurred to get them both out there 243 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: in that same space. Because Maggie is not shot with 244 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: a shotgun and she's found many feet away. Just got 245 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: before you moving to Maggie, let me ask you a question. 246 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: Because Paul was hit with bird shot and buckshot, and 247 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: there's a difference based on the injuries. What does that 248 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: mean to you? As you know as body bags, You've 249 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: got to know that those are two different types of 250 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: ammunition used on this shotgun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And mentioned 251 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: buckshot earlier. We buckshot is rather robust and depended upon 252 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: the type of buckshot it is. I'll just give you 253 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: an idea. With a buckshot, think of for folks at 254 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: home that are not familiar with firearms and certainly shotguns. 255 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: With buckshot, it can come in several sizes, and it's 256 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: measured in diameter. So double odd buckshot add as an 257 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: old term for zero. You're thinking about something that would 258 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: be the equivalent of a thirty two caliber bullets. So 259 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: that's point three two inches in diameter. And you've gotten 260 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: multiple of these and each one of these cartridges. Okay, 261 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: so when that shotgun is blasted, you've got multiple projectiles 262 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: that are just under the size of a standard marble 263 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: that are going down range at the target and within 264 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: a certain number of feet. This has remarkable lethality to 265 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: it because it's it's like being shot with a pistol 266 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: multiple times, only at the same time because all of 267 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: these rounds are going down range. Now you know, with 268 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: a shotgun, the rounds themselves are not as energy efficient 269 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: as a rifle round because a rifle ground single bullet 270 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: in a rifled barrel spins and so it maintains are 271 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: holes onto the energy longer. So when it impacts an area, 272 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: delivers a lot of that inertial energy that punch shotgun, 273 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: that energy dissipates because that that's coming up was referred 274 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: to as a smooth bore weapon. There's no rifling in there. 275 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: But then this is odd you mentioned and fine points 276 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: loaded with buckshot, and then you have bird shot, and 277 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: again you're not familiar with that. That's okay. Bird shot 278 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: is just the same cut up in one of the 279 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: rounds emptied out. It looks like bbs. It looks just 280 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: like a bebe that you would put and when you 281 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: were a kid, if you had a daisy BB gun, 282 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: those tiny little bebes, and those are literally used to 283 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: hunt small animals like you can hunt squirrels and rabbits, 284 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: but primarily you use them to go bird hunting with 285 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: you're taking quail or dove or pheasant. That's what you're 286 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: gonna use. It doesn't require buckshot. Buckshot is used by 287 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: the police. It's used by hunters that want to use 288 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: the shotgun to deer hunt with buckshot, and that's the reason, 289 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: like a buck deer. So why would you have two 290 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: separate types of AMMO? Well, for me, I'm thinking, well, 291 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: did you run out of AMMO and you just grabbed 292 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: happing to grab around a buck shot and then around 293 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: a bird shot or or or are you trying to 294 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: make it look like they were not just one shotgun 295 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: but two shotguns involved in us? Because now you've got Maggie. 296 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: She's in a different position over here, some distance away 297 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: from her son, and she's been shot with rifle around 298 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: multiple times, almost as if she was moving away from 299 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: where Paul was. She's hitting multiple times, and then the 300 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: final two shots or closer like she's knocked down by 301 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: multiple shots as she is moving away from the shooter. 302 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: Then the individual approaches her and holds the weapon over 303 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: her body, and then she's executed. Essentially, maybe she was 304 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: still moving and the individual approached her from the rear 305 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: while she was down and then essentially ended her life 306 00:18:44,200 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: by executing her, shooting her in the back of her head. YEA. 307 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: One case in particular that kind of stood out to 308 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: me was the death of Gloria Sadderfield. And I think 309 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: a lot of it goes to my rural upbringing. Gloria's 310 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: family their their salt of the earth kind of folks, 311 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: and she had been attached to this family for years 312 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: and years. When you plus years, she was like a 313 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: domestic worker, right, I mean, she was that close somebody 314 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: who was with the family every day, tending to very 315 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: personal needs inside the home. Yeah, and multiple locations, you know, 316 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: where she would go. And she was very familiar with 317 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: the family. And she was certainly long enough there with 318 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: that family to probably tended to these boys when they 319 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: were young. So she she had been a part of 320 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: parcel of that family all of these years, and I'm 321 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: sure that on one level they treated her maybe like family. 322 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: Of course, she you're you're never truly in the family 323 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: when you're around a group like this, they are certainly 324 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: I guess elite in this tiny little little piece of 325 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: the world down there. These are the people that don't 326 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: rent a tuxedo to go to a fancy dinner. They've 327 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: got a couple of different styles. And she's like Ambi Davis. 328 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: She's Alice on the Brady bunches. And she tended to them. 329 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: He was there take care of, you know, cooking and 330 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: cleaning and probably washing dirty clothes and running around doing chores, 331 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: going to go buy groceries for the family. There to 332 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: meet all of their domestic needs, if you will. She 333 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: knew a lot about this family, and of course Stave, 334 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: there was quite a bit to know about them. Well, 335 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Joe, because I was looking 336 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: into this with her, in particular with her passing, because 337 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: as you and I have talked about this before doing 338 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: this today, there is so much involved. When you just 339 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: look at Alex Murdoch and all of the things that 340 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: file down that pyramid of things, you know, starting with 341 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Gloria Sadderfield at the top and going down, every person 342 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: that died has the same thing. The bottom of the story. 343 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: As you peel off these different layers, gets thicker and 344 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: thicker and thicker. And I'm looking at this with j 345 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Gloria Sadderfield. We're talking about February, right, just a couple 346 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: of years ago, and well, she had worked that day. 347 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: Was she there to pick up a paycheck? What was 348 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: she actually doing that day? She was there at the hall. 349 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: I don't know specifically what her duties were on that 350 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: particular day, but I do know that she was at 351 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: the home and had come out. Initially, there's this phone call, 352 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: this nine one one call that comes in, and of 353 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: course it's Paul and Maggie. All's there. Maggie's there, and 354 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: old Gloria is at essentially the base of an external 355 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: staircase there on the property, and she's falling and she's 356 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: barently struck her head. You can hear Maggie and Paul 357 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: going back and forth over this, and it turns out 358 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: there is an injury to her head, you know. And 359 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: it came out initially that she had fallen down the staircase. 360 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: And what kind of really caught my ear with this 361 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: event in particular, was the fact that they said later 362 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: that she had tripped over a dog. It's interesting, and 363 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, dogs seemed to play play a role in 364 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: his family's life all the way through. In this case, particular, again, 365 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: there's a dog involved, and she was alleged to have 366 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: fallen over dog. It wasn't just simply her tripping down 367 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: the staircase and cracking her head. A dog was involved. 368 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: You know. Now, unfortunately the eyewitnesses are the finders. If 369 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: you will, they're gone. You can't go back and question 370 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie, you know about what had actually happened. 371 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: And that that's one of the important things about when 372 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: you conduct an investigation and you're looking into things, you 373 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: never know about what the dynamics are going to be 374 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: of that group of people that you're interacting with when 375 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: the case goes down to begin with. Because know, it's 376 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: very possible that the police, when they initially looked at 377 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: this case, and I kind of get this feeling with this, 378 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: that they viewed this case is literally a domestic accident 379 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: that she did in fact trip and fall, and if 380 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: they handled it that way, then maybe they were not 381 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: initially as thorough because we have to remember that in 382 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: death investigation. I talked about this on bodybags. I've talked 383 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: about it several times that are working premise every time, 384 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: and I don't care how old the person is or 385 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: how infirmed they are. Our working premise is that every death, 386 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: not some, but every death is in fact homicide until 387 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: we can prove otherwise. Because if you do that, if 388 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: that's if, if that's the direction you take with the case. 389 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: Homicides tend to be the most complicated. So if you 390 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: start out is that that is the gold standard. You're 391 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: going to collect every bit of information, whether it's physical 392 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: physical information you're recovering with physical evidence at the scene, 393 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: or if it's circumstantial evidence you're going around, You're you're 394 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: interviewing people. Maybe I heard a sound, or maybe she 395 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: said something, or you know, I'm dizzy, or maybe I've 396 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: got chest pains, or if if she's asymptomatic prior to this, 397 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: what would seem to be a spontaneous fall, was she 398 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: exhibiting any signs that she was in cardiac or neurological 399 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: distress prior to that, indicating that you've got some kind 400 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: of underlying disease that might have brought this about is 401 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: instead of something that might be much much darker. So 402 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: when you get there to investigate, you're relying on the 403 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: version who made the nine one one call, the person 404 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: who was on site to tell you what transpired before 405 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: you got there, and you take that at face value, 406 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm assuming, until you can either corroborate what they're saying 407 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: backed up with the facts, or go, hey, somebody's lying here. 408 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: Because in this case, Maggie Murda and Paul, we're both asleep. 409 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: Maggie woke up at the fall, Paul was woken up 410 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: later on. I mean, that's one of the stories that 411 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: came out, and I'm wondering how these things play into 412 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: your investigation. Yeah, and much of that comes along with experience, 413 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: and you're interacting and you're looking for tells essentially. Now 414 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: we're not talking about physical evidence. We're talking about when 415 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: you're speaking with somebody and you're trying to extract information 416 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: from them in the interview process, is there anything that 417 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: kind of sets your senses off with them to give 418 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: you an indication that they are deliberately trying to deceive 419 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: you in some way or they're being untruthful. This goes 420 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: to looking for cueues and languages and cueues and movement 421 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: and all these sorts of things that people that are 422 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: very highly skilled in the interview process look for and understand. 423 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: When you're in the field as an investigator crimes an investigator. 424 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: You don't necessarily possess that skill set, but you should 425 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: have at least a baseline understanding of it if someone 426 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: is not being completely truthful, because let me tell you 427 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: what can happen at that point. Once you've kind of 428 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: identified it and you've identified these things that are kind 429 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: of making the uneasy about what you're hearing, you say, 430 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: you know what, I think this would be a really 431 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: good opportunity to call our detective end that specializes in 432 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: this and he will meet them back at headquarters and 433 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: he'll get the main interview with them. It'll be recorded, 434 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: it'll be on tape. He'll take notes, and he he 435 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: knows where to kind of push the buttons and that 436 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: sort of thing. But but everything begins with that initial 437 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: contact that you make with them, and then along with 438 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: that you try to couple it with physical evidence. You know, 439 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: one of the big things that you look for. For instance, 440 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: if you have an idea that there's a head strike, 441 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, where someone falls over and they impact their head, 442 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: and is there is there any indication here's a big one, 443 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: is there any indication that after the fall that this 444 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: person moved around at all? Because if the skin is broken, 445 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: or if there's internal injury inside of the skull and 446 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: you've got blood coming out of the ear, there's a 447 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: big opportunity be there for blood to literally drip away 448 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: from the head, and as it's stripping away, if you're standing, 449 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: if you're fully erect, and you're moving away, just kind 450 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: of wandering around people with head injuries, sometimes we'll just 451 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of circle about, confused and disoriented. You'll see little 452 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: trails of blood. Well, that's something that you would queue 453 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: in on from a physical standpoint to try to get 454 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: an idea as to what was going on after the 455 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: initial injury. And then you couple this with what witnesses 456 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: or the finder is saying and doesn't mesh doesn't marry up. 457 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think that there were probably a lot 458 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: of things that were missed in this initial contact with 459 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: these people after none one one had been called, and 460 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: the p D rolls out there, and you've got an 461 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: ambulance that rolls out there. Because I gotta tell you, 462 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: once Gloria got in the back of that ambulance and 463 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: made it to the hospital, she never walked back outside 464 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: of that hospital. A matter of fact, that next time 465 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: she left that hospital she was deceased. For all of 466 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: y'all out there that listen to body bags on a 467 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: regular basis, you know that death comes to us in 468 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: all forms, And I tell you, with this family, it 469 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: seems that these individuals that are interconnected with them, death 470 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: has met these subjects in a variety of different ways. 471 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: And when we talk about Gloria Sadderfield in this kind 472 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: of strange circumstances that she passed away under where she 473 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: struck her head and there was never an autopsy performed. 474 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: She was in the hospital for three weeks and they 475 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: signed her death out as a natural death. But thinking 476 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: about her death, there were two others that are connected 477 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: seemingly with his family, and they both in all motor 478 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: vehicles or motoriz vehicles. We have a we have a 479 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: boat accident, and we have an event that occurred seemingly 480 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: in the middle of the road in the middle of 481 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: the night. And a young man that happened several years beforehand, 482 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: all the way back in two thousand fifteen. His name 483 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: was Stephen Smith and he was found dead line in 484 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: the road with some pretty nasty injuries. You know, Joe, 485 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: when you're looking at these murders, associated with Alex Murdah 486 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: in particularly the Murdoch family in general. You mentioned, you know, 487 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: Gloria Saderfield. We've got a lot of weird nuance there. Okay, 488 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: something didn't happen the way they said it did. Now, 489 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith was a couple of years before Gloria Sadderfield. 490 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: It was actually July eight. Stephen Smith is nineteen years old. 491 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: He was found dead along a rural road. His death 492 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: was initially classified as a hit and run and it 493 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have any kind of connection to the Murdahs. Okay. 494 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: But six years later, after everything else that has gone 495 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: on in the Murdoch family with Alex Murda and all 496 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: the accusations sled, they decided we're looking into this, and 497 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: out of this we find out when the cases reopened 498 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: that Steven Smith was found dead. He was found out 499 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, in the dark in 500 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 1: Hampton County. His mother believes he was murdered, and I 501 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: think you got to take that into consideration because she 502 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: knows her son, she knows what he would and wouldn't 503 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: do in the middle of the night. His car was 504 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: found not right near his house, was discovered three miles 505 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: away from where his body was, so three miles away, 506 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: as his car parked on the side of the road 507 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: with the gas cap off, ostensibly to show that he 508 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: was maybe walking for gas in the middle of the night, 509 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: which none of his family believes, because he had two 510 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: working cell phones and he was close to home. He 511 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: was win six miles of his house. So you're in 512 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: the middle of the night, you got a cellphone is working, 513 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: you run out of gas, You don't start walking down 514 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: the road. You pick up the phone and call and say, hey, 515 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: I hate to bog your mom, but you know I'm 516 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: a couple of miles away. Can you come and get 517 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: me and we'll get my car tomorrow. And that's what 518 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: we're dealing with. But that didn't happen. His body was found. 519 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: And you mentioned gruesome injuries, Joe, You've seen plenty of 520 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: gruesome injuries in your life. I read the description of 521 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: this and I'm thinking, if it was a hit and run, 522 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: I don't know how they could do this. Yeah, it'd 523 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: be very difficult. This poor man, he get very young man. 524 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: He was literally laying in the middle of the road, 525 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: and it would appear that he was what we refer 526 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: to as a pedestrian instruct by a motor vehicle. And 527 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: one of the interesting little things that we look for 528 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: with people that are walking, either in the middle of 529 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: the road or just on the shoulder of the road, 530 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: you have to think about when you're standing up fully 531 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: straight and you're kind of striding along, and one of 532 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: the things you look for our specific areas of impact, 533 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: and we call these bumper marks, and many people might 534 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: not be aware of the us. It's kind of a 535 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: thing that that I learned as a death investigator. I've 536 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: worked a lot of what we call m v as 537 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: motor vehicle accidents, and with pedestrians we call it pedestrian 538 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: versus motor vehicle. When an individual is walking along and 539 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: they are struck, you have to think about what's probably 540 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: the leading edge of that motor vehicle as it is 541 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: moving down the road. It's going to be the bumper. 542 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: And of course a lot of this is heights dependent. 543 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: You know what the suspension looks like on the car, 544 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: the height of the person, for instance. But if you 545 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: just imagine everybody in the sound of my voice right now, 546 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,719 Speaker 1: and just imagine anywhere from the area from just below 547 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: where your hip articulates with your pelvis, or you're the 548 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: upper portion of your of your femur all the way 549 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: down to just superior to your ankles. You look for 550 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: these kind of linear are bilinear markings and they can 551 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: approximate the width of a bumper. If you have clothing 552 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: that is overlying the legs, for instance, and let's say 553 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: they're wearing a pair of jeans, you'll also get kind 554 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: of an abrasion. Many times it comes about as a 555 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: result of the contact that that very vigorous contact that 556 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: occurs when the clothing is rubbing up against the surface 557 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: of the skin, and so this translates into a kind 558 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: of rated areas. Sometimes you can have an underlying contusion bruise. 559 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: It will be very very deep because you're talking about 560 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: the impact of a moving motor vehicle and you have 561 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: to think out in this area. This is not adjacent 562 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: to stop sign or stop light, so the car would 563 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: have been traveling at full speed. Butle guess what, the 564 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: kid didn't have those marks on him. But what he 565 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: did have were some pretty gruesome injuries to his head 566 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: and his shoulders and maybe his hands as well. But 567 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: yet there was no evidence that he had been struck 568 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: as he was standing at full height. So when you 569 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: look at a case like this, you begin to think, well, 570 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: Lord have mercy, was he laying on the ground and 571 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: run over? How did he get into this position lying 572 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: on the ground, which would have facilitated that position would 573 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: have facilitated these insults to the body, Because it's just 574 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: basic common sense that we're not going to the moon here, 575 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: It's just basic common sense. Where did the car initially 576 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: make contact? Well, these points of contact, according to what 577 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: we've heard so far, have been in in the extremists 578 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: in the upper body, and so that that as an investigator, 579 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: that makes you pauls and you think. And a real 580 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: fascinating aside to this is that when the accident investigator 581 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: was out there, he made note of something that was absent. 582 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: There was no evidence of any kind of debris. Like 583 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: many times when you have these impact events with a car, 584 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: bits the car will break off and you'll see them, 585 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: they'll be lying about. You'll have fiberglass, you like, plastic, 586 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff, and every now and then metal. 587 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: It just appears though that a vehicle just ran right 588 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: through him, if you will, and left him in this condition. 589 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: Even if you're going to do a hit and run, Joe. 590 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,439 Speaker 1: Even if you're doing a hit and run, you're gonna 591 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: hit the brakes after the fact. You know, if you're 592 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: just driving along the roads middle of the night and 593 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: out of nowhere you see a body, you know, a person, 594 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: and you accidentally hit them, You're to crush a guy's head, 595 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: leave a gaping wound, and dislocate his shoulder. There's gonna 596 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: be enough noise made that you're gonna stop. That is, 597 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: assuming one thing, that you were not purposed in doing it. 598 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: If you were purposed, if you had essentially and just folks, 599 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: just kind of get hold of this just for a second. 600 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: A car, a motor vehicle can be weaponized. A motor 601 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: vehicle is essentially can be used just like a knife. 602 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: It can be used like a baseball pat or can 603 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: be used like a firearm if you purpose to use 604 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: that vehicle as a means to bring about somebody's death. Okay, 605 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: I would argue, if we were just gonna have a 606 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: cup of coffee and sitting down about it, sitting down 607 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: and have a chat about it, I'd say, well, you 608 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: could use a motor vehicle to that end. What if 609 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: you don't have access to a gun. What if you're 610 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: just somebody that has something against this young man and 611 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: the vehicle all of a sudden becomes what we refer 612 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: to as a weapon of convenience. It's almost like a 613 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: raged field event in a domestic squabble, where a weapon 614 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: of convenience would be say somebody's got a lamp laying around, 615 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: or they've got a iron skillet, or they've got a 616 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: butcher knife, and because they want to inflict harm, lethal 617 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: harm on this individual, they pick it up and they 618 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: utilize it. Well the car same way. I think you 619 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: can kind of maybe extrapolate from that perhaps, and I 620 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: hope that the investigators are doing that and then have 621 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: done that in this particular case, according to Highway Pdrollman, 622 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: a South Carolina Highway pendrolman, as they've done follow up 623 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: on this case, go well, where is this tied to 624 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,479 Speaker 1: Alec Murdah? How does this time into the Murdoch family 625 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: at all? Well, the rumor mill. You're in a small area. 626 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: You mentioned this at the very beginning of bodybags today, 627 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: it's a small geographical area. These are the elite people, 628 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, rich, wealthy, all that. Well, there are always 629 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: rumors that there was a Murdah boy tied to this, okay, 630 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: and I say always rumors they had calls to South 631 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: Carolina State trooper actually said, you know, to an unidentified tipster, 632 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: they've had nine phone calls about a connection to a 633 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: Murdah boy. And you're thinking, well, in reality, it's probably 634 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: Paul because of the age. But look at this the 635 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: next day after this death, okay of Stephen Smith, who 636 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: calls the Smith family offering all their help. Randy Murdah. 637 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: He's the older brother of Alec Murdah. And Randy calls 638 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: offers to take on the case free of charge. I'll 639 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: help you with everything. But Steven's dad was like a 640 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: little iffy on accepting the offer because it's just there's 641 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: something icky. Some then not right here? Why are you 642 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: offering to help? Well, now you're thinking, if a Murda 643 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 1: is involved, and a Murda is volunteering to be involved, 644 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: it's a simple hit and run. If that's the case, 645 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: why would they bother? He did it because he knew 646 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: the family. Otherwise he says, no, I just heard about 647 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: the case. Got that. Hell, that's your connection to murder. 648 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: But that's not the only motorized contraption causing a death 649 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: here and an association with the murders. Because you've got 650 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: another one, Joe, We've got the death of Mallory Beach, 651 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 1: young miss Beach. Her death was kind of that moment, Tom. 652 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: It was probably an initial moment of clarity if if 653 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: no one in the community had insight into kind of 654 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: the family dynamic with more dolls, you suddenly got it 655 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: here with Mallory Beach. I want to interrupt you, Joe, 656 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: because you get something about this that everybody has to know. 657 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: Is I covered that from the beginning. And we have 658 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: video of Paul, Mallory, all of them the night they 659 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: get on the boat, Joe, and they're all drinking. They're 660 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: all inebriated. We have video with audio. We have seen 661 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: them and I'm not knocking kids being kids, that's what 662 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: they are. But to set this up properly, they were 663 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: partying and Paul was leading the charge. Paul Murda, Yeah 664 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: he was, and he was using illegally using an I 665 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: D to purchase alcohol with their CCTV footage of him 666 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: doing this, of purchasing the alcohol. And this is the 667 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: thing that really strikes me. This family has been around 668 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: for a century in this area. In a position of power, 669 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me that you're the proprietor at this location, 670 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 1: and you don't know who his kid is. You don't 671 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: know that he's not who is on that I d 672 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: But yet they sold him booze anyway, and he got hammered. 673 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, he absolutely positively got hammered. He's in this boat, 674 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: highly team this boat. He's the master and commander. This 675 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: vote in in a very difficult area to navigate, even 676 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: during the day for folks that haven't been to the 677 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: low country. And you kind of go over these kind 678 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: of marshy, swampy areas that lead out into the inter 679 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: coastal and inter coastal eventually gets out into the ocean. 680 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: It's treacherous if you don't know where you're going. And 681 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: the bridges in and of themselves are kind of low. 682 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: The visibility of the pilings is deepended upon tides, okay, 683 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: because even in inland like this, these are tidal marshes. 684 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: You know that everybody goes out and you can go fishing, 685 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, and go catching redfish and and sea trout 686 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things that get up in 687 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: these areas. But deepending upon the heights of the tide 688 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: or the heights of the water depend upon the tide. 689 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: If you're not aware of where certain structures are, it's difficult. 690 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,240 Speaker 1: So then you couple this, you couple alcohol, copious amounts 691 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: of alcohol. You have drunk kids. It's in the middle 692 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: of the night, and buddy, let me tell you something. 693 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: There's dark and then there's being out on the water. 694 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: It's just very best pitch out there and maybe inexperienced 695 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: boater in the first place. And you've got a very 696 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: powerful vehicle here that you're traveling along, and so it 697 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: is an absolute I don't think it's an understatement to 698 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: say that this is a recipe for disaster. He's out 699 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: there in this kind of marshy area and he's doing 700 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: donuts in the boat at a high rate of speed 701 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: with these all of these kids in it, and you 702 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: can imagine they're horrified. It's dark outside, they're all they've 703 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: all been drinking. And suddenly he just kind of slingshots 704 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: out of the scene and takes off down the waterway. 705 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: And eventually you ran that boat into a piling that 706 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: was supporting a bridge, a concrete pilot and try to 707 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: get other people to say they were driving the boat. Yeah. 708 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: To add to all this, you have to remember after 709 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: the accident, okay, reckon at the piling, but Mallory Beach 710 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: was thrown from the boat. Mallory Beach was not on 711 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: the boat when they called for help. They could not 712 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: find her. And you mentioned it, you called it pitch 713 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: pitch black. It was so dark, you're on the water, 714 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: you're in the marsh. You don't know how high the 715 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: water table is at that moment, just because you know 716 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: it is the middle of the night and we're all drunk. 717 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: They couldn't find her. They didn't find her at daylight. 718 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: A matter of fact, they didn't find Mallory Beach for 719 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: a week she was missing. They were too busy trying 720 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: to cover up and create a story that would mitigate 721 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: Paul's responsibility in all of this. But when they did 722 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: find Mallory Beach's body, there was a very very mad 723 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 1: family because by then the kids, it's obered up. By then, 724 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: the kids were talking. By then, the stories were out 725 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: about Paul calling himself Timmy and doing donuts on the 726 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: water where they couldn't even see where they were. They 727 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 1: find their beloved nineteen year old daughter who put her 728 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 1: trust in Paul, and she's gone, she ain't coming back, 729 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: and the family decides to sue. Yeah, and I think 730 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: that it's hard to say that anything good could come 731 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,439 Speaker 1: out of this, but I gotta tell you, I think 732 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: that her death may have opened the door to what 733 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,760 Speaker 1: we eventually see with his family. Eyes were suddenly opened, 734 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: think because you know, a lot of these kids were 735 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: recounting people coming into the room to attempt to influence 736 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: them regarding their statements. One young man was I think 737 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: even it was even hinted that he should take responsibility 738 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: for the one piloting the boat as opposed to Paul. 739 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: Once that gets out into a small community, and trust me, 740 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: in a town like this, in a county like this, 741 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: everybody talks. Everybody goes church together, everybody drinks drinks together, 742 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: people drink coffee together, down to local cafe, They go 743 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: fishing together, they go hunting together, they do business with 744 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: one another. People talk. The story gets out, and you 745 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: know all the things that have been whisperers about this 746 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,439 Speaker 1: family for years and years, the fear that people had 747 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: of them because they were so very powerful. Suddenly, you know, 748 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 1: here's this kind of lucid moment with this beautiful young lady, 749 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: and she's gone. She's gone, and not just gone in 750 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: like a car crash where she's there and her remains 751 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: are pinned in the vehicles. She dies really in the 752 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: presence of her friends. She's not found for a week. 753 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: You know, you had mentioned, Dave, how they were so 754 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: focused on protecting themselves. Her value is suddenly lost, lost 755 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: beneath the water out there in all of his horror 756 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: and chaos. And I think that that was a real 757 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,760 Speaker 1: eye opener, and it's certainly I think that it cued 758 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: the police as they moved along with this investigation. And 759 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 1: of course what wound up being a double sure enough 760 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:37,760 Speaker 1: double murder that occurred in the same county, Joseph Scott Morgan, 761 00:44:38,360 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: and this is bodybags