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Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Hey or Hey. Are you a fan of Pokemon cards?

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Speaker 2: M Oh yeah, a little bit. My son used to

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Speaker 2: play them.

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Speaker 1: My son also, though I think he mostly collected and

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Speaker 1: traded them, I don't think he ever actually played with them. M.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that happens a lot, although I did

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Speaker 2: play with him for a few times. It's a pretty

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Speaker 2: interesting game.

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Speaker 1: And do you have any of those cards with like

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Speaker 1: super awesome powers?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have pretty good names, like flame Body.

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Speaker 1: My personal favorite is the card that can do a

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Speaker 1: black hole eclipse.

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Speaker 2: Although that sounds kind of like a random combination of

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Speaker 2: words from physics that they just kind of put together.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the same way that physicists name things though.

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Speaker 2: Ah, so you admit it. It's all random.

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Speaker 1: We just type the words into an online random number

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Speaker 1: generator and that's what we go with. M.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they have a bunch of physicists working for Pokemon

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Speaker 2: just in case that the whole physics caurer doesn't work out.

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Speaker 2: You have a promising career working for Pokemon.

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Speaker 1: That's always been my backup plan.

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Speaker 6: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I am Hoorham and cartoonist and the co author of

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Speaker 2: Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I probably have hundreds of dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of Pokemon cards somewhere in the closets of my home.

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Speaker 2: Are they wrapped in individual plastic though, to keep them

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Speaker 2: in mint condition. Otherwise, I'm not sure they're worth that much.

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Speaker 1: They have definitely been prepared as an investment in the future.

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Speaker 2: That's how you plan to pay for your son's college education.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how my son plans to pay for

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Speaker 1: his retirement. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, if it's worth that much, maybe they should conveniently

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Speaker 2: disappear from your closet.

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Speaker 1: Only if I could find them in my son's closet.

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Speaker 1: I think that's part of his security plan.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, it's such a mess. It's like a black

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Speaker 2: hole in itself. But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel

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Speaker 2: and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to clean up the mess that

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Speaker 1: is this universe and all of it's crazy, confusing glory.

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Speaker 1: We dig right into everything that doesn't make sense, everything

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Speaker 1: that should make sense, and things that might never make sense.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the biggest questions at the heart of

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Speaker 1: philosophical inquiries about the nature of our universe, and we

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Speaker 1: talk about practical stuff like how things around you actually work.

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Speaker 1: We dive into all of these questions and try to

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Speaker 1: explain to you what scientists do and do not know about.

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Speaker 2: Them because it is a pretty fun universe full of

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Speaker 2: interesting and amazing characters, not all of them with superpowers

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Speaker 2: like Pokemon characters, but there are a lot of interesting

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Speaker 2: objects out there in the universe with seemingly super powerful powers.

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Speaker 1: And it is our belief, or at least our hope,

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Speaker 1: that the universe does make sense, that it's following some

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Speaker 1: set of rules, and that if we dig into it

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Speaker 1: hard enough, if we use our brains, we come up

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Speaker 1: with a clever set of experiments, we can figure out

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Speaker 1: what those rules are. That in the end, there isn't

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Speaker 1: magic in the unit, but that everything can be explained

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Speaker 1: with science. I'm not sure the same can be said

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Speaker 1: about Pokemon powers.

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Speaker 2: Wait, are you saying that Pokemon aren't physically accurate there?

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Speaker 2: How do you know, Daniel, I'm not sure we have

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Speaker 2: to suspend disbelief. But I did do a bit of

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Speaker 2: research into what the black hole eclipse move is for

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Speaker 2: the Pokemon character, and here's the official description. The user

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Speaker 2: gathers dark energy with its Z power and forms a

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Speaker 2: black hole that sucks the opponent up.

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Speaker 1: Mmmmm.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. That seems like a bit of a dangerous weapon there,

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Speaker 2: because once you start the black hole. I guess can

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Speaker 2: you turn it off or is there a Z switch

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Speaker 2: for it?

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Speaker 1: It depends on what your Z power can do. If

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Speaker 1: you can tap into dark energy and expand or contract space,

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Speaker 1: then hey, you have got a lot of options.

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Speaker 2: Well, there is the idea that maybe there are unknown

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Speaker 2: forces in the universe we haven't discovered. Maybe the Z

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Speaker 2: force is one of them.

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Speaker 1: And if I discovered an unknown force and called it

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Speaker 1: the Z force, would you be impressed with my naming?

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Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, try out any of the other

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Speaker 2: letters in the alphabet. First.

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Speaker 1: The Z force makes me think it's related to the

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Speaker 1: Z boson, which we know is a very feeble boson.

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Speaker 1: It carries the weak force, probably not capable of making

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Speaker 1: black holes.

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Speaker 2: So there is technically a Z force in the universe

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Speaker 2: right now, like the force made by a Z boson

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Speaker 2: is technically a Z force.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, though I'm not sure you can use

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Speaker 1: it to gather any dark energy and throw your opponent

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Speaker 1: into a black hole. But hey, best of luck to you.

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Speaker 2: How do you know, Daniel? Have you tried?

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Speaker 1: I haven't tried, but I'm going to write a grant

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Speaker 1: proposal to the Pokemon Science Foundation to see if I

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Speaker 1: can get some funds to try it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the PSF, they fund a lot of work out here.

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Speaker 2: But technically, in a multiverse, isn't it possible that there

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Speaker 2: are Pokemon characters out there?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you say in a multiverse, isn't it possible?

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Speaker 1: Then I suppose almost anything is possible, because in some

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Speaker 1: theories of the multiverse there are universes with other laws

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Speaker 1: of physics, which basically allows almost anything to happen.

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Speaker 2: Wow, there you go, it's official here in the podcast,

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Speaker 2: Daniel thing. Pokemon are real.

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Speaker 1: They are a really good investment in my son's.

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Speaker 2: Future and a real possibility. But it is interesting. How

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Speaker 2: did you end up googling Pokemon powers online? What's going

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Speaker 2: on there? Daniel?

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Speaker 1: No, I was googling black hole eclipse, of course, in

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Speaker 1: preparation for today's episode. And the top hit was not

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Speaker 1: black holes or eclipses or anything scientific. The top like

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Speaker 1: ten hits were all about Pokemon.

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Speaker 2: I think that tells you a little bit about the

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Speaker 2: priority of the Internet. But it is interesting. What do

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Speaker 2: you think is going on inside the head of those

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Speaker 2: Pokemon creators, artists and writers when they come up with

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Speaker 2: these things?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 2: Because they used to work dark energy. They must know

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Speaker 2: a little bit of something about physics.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think as they make more and

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Speaker 1: more Pokemon characters, that have to be more and more

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Speaker 1: powerful or as my son would say, totally op. And

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Speaker 1: so they want to come up with something really dramatics,

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Speaker 1: something really crazy. And I guess black holes are on

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Speaker 1: the top of the list of like aspirational powers as

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Speaker 1: to whether you could make a black hole using dark energy.

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Speaker 1: You know, we don't really know what dark energy is

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Speaker 1: at all. We just know that it's accelerating the expansion

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Speaker 1: of space and separating the black holes from each other.

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Speaker 1: So if anything, it's keeping black holes from getting bigger.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess my question is what kind of energy

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Speaker 2: car does the attack youse dark energy cars? Is there

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Speaker 2: such a thing?

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Speaker 1: If there isn't such a thing, then there should be

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Speaker 1: Pokemon Science Foundation. Please fund that.

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Speaker 2: There should be a science type Pokemon. You know there's

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Speaker 2: like a water type, fire type. I mean, there should

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Speaker 2: be like a physics type.

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Speaker 1: We've exhausted my knowledge of Pokemon. Now I have nothing

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Speaker 1: else to contribute to this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I went a little op on you. Yeah, all overpowered you.

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Speaker 2: But it is an interesting name. To give a power

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Speaker 2: to a fictional character. But it kind of makes you think,

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Speaker 2: is it actually possible for something like that to happen?

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Speaker 1: And we know that crazy things happen out there in

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Speaker 1: the universe. We are constantly surprised by what's going on

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Speaker 1: in the hearts of other galaxies and even in between galaxies,

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Speaker 1: and so you should never say never.

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Speaker 2: So today on the podcast, we'll be asking the quoestquestion.

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Speaker 2: Can a black hole be eclipsed? And can you use

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Speaker 2: it to suck up your enemies? Is the question that

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Speaker 2: a lot of kids are probably asking, and maybe some physicists.

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Speaker 1: Please, if you do have the Z power to manipulate

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Speaker 1: dark energy to create black holes, don't do it. You

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Speaker 1: might win the battle and then destroy the planet.

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Speaker 2: Although they'll give you a Nobel prize, though, wouldn't they.

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Speaker 1: In the five minutes between the creation of your black

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Speaker 1: hole and the destruction of the Earth. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: the Swedish Academy acts that fast.

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Speaker 6: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I've seen you talk, Daniel. You'll sacrifice anything for science.

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Speaker 1: If you have such a Z power, create a black

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Speaker 1: hole out in the depths of space where we can

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Speaker 1: study it.

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Speaker 2: Please, I guess if you have that kind of power

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Speaker 2: you can afford to go out into space.

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Speaker 1: Right, Maybe you also have the X power and the

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Speaker 1: WY power right right?

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Speaker 2: Although I thought the why power was physicist superpower or

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Speaker 2: is that the philosophers?

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Speaker 1: It's the four year old's power? Why? Why? Why? Why?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's an interminable source of energy. It's an interesting question,

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Speaker 2: and as usual, we were wondering how many people out

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Speaker 2: there had thought about this question whether a black hole

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Speaker 2: can be eclipsed.

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Speaker 1: So thanks very much to everybody who volunteers to answer

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Speaker 1: these questions in advance. We're very grateful to you, and

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Speaker 1: we hope that you enjoy hearing your voice on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: If any of you out there would like to participate,

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Speaker 1: please don't be shy. Write to me two questions at

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Speaker 1: Danielandhorgey dot com.

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Speaker 2: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 2: a black hole can be eclipsed? Here's what people had to.

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Speaker 7: Say, assuming the definition of eclipse is for one body

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Speaker 7: to obscure another body from a given dvantage point. Sure,

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Speaker 7: I don't see why a black hole could not be

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Speaker 7: eclipsed by another celestial body.

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Speaker 1: I thought that might be how we discovered them or

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Speaker 1: something I guess a black hole can be eclipsed.

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Speaker 6: I mean normally, an eclipse is when the light from

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Speaker 6: something is blocked by something else in space. So as

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Speaker 6: a black hole doesn't have any light amissing from it,

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't have thought it could be eclipsed as such.

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Speaker 6: But I guess if you get something massive enough in

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Speaker 6: front of it, in between us and it, then it

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Speaker 6: would be eclipsed.

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Speaker 8: I don't see why not. As long as something subjectively

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Speaker 8: larger than them is between them and the observer, it

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Speaker 8: would eclipse. The black hole might have to be subjectively

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Speaker 8: larger than the disk around it to really have a

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Speaker 8: shot at it.

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Speaker 9: Well, the concept of eclipse, the way I understand it,

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Speaker 9: is that light from a star is blocked from Earth's

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Speaker 9: view by an intervening body. So since black holes do

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Speaker 9: not emit light, I don't think they can be eclipsed.

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Speaker 10: I don't think so because I believe when a black

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Speaker 10: hole's mass passes before a gravity you see lensing effects.

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Speaker 10: And I don't know I've I ever heard of one

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Speaker 10: being eclipsed before.

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Speaker 11: Yes, I think they can do if there is a

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Speaker 11: planet or star closer to us in the right alignment

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Speaker 11: with the.

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Speaker 4: Black hole.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think they can be eclipsed.

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Speaker 11: Yes, I think it can in the sense that is

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Speaker 11: coming in front of something else. But like instead of

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Speaker 11: blocking the light like the moon, we block the Sun's light,

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Speaker 11: I think it would just absorb the light of whatever

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Speaker 11: is behind it.

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Speaker 1: But it could also have this.

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Speaker 11: Gravitational lensing effect where the light of the objects that

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Speaker 11: aren't directly behind it kind of get curved due to

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Speaker 11: the black hole and we perceive it in that way.

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Speaker 11: So that's kind of the black hole version of an eclipse.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they can be eclipsed.

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Speaker 12: Let's say instead of our Sun, it will be a

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Speaker 12: black hole like we heard our podcast Danielle and Hoorhea.

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Speaker 12: We would need to be at a safe distance from

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Speaker 12: it and we can safely go around it. And if

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Speaker 12: we have the moon, that would be between us and

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Speaker 12: the black hole. I don't see why not the moon

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Speaker 12: connect the sight of the black hole?

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Speaker 2: All right? A wide range of answers here. Somebody said, why.

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Speaker 1: Not always a good answer when we're talking about physics

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Speaker 1: at the universe.

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Speaker 2: Why not? There's the multiverse, Doctor Strange says, anything can

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Speaker 2: happen in the multiverse.

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Speaker 1: Or do you think they were taking it as a

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Speaker 1: proposal like, hey, should we make a black hole eclipse?

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Speaker 1: Why not? Let's go right now. I'm up for it.

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Speaker 2: I guess it made me think, what do you mean

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Speaker 2: by eclipse, like in terms of attention or in terms

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Speaker 2: of blocking its light? But it's a black hole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. And I noticed that there

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Speaker 1: was like two different interpretations of eclipse there, one the

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Speaker 1: black hole being eclipsed like something blocking light from a

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Speaker 1: black hole, and the other of the black hole doing

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Speaker 1: the eclipsing, like passing in front of something else that

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Speaker 1: makes light. So there's sort of two possibilities there.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, and I guess we're going to argue about which

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Speaker 2: one is more correct. For the next hour, we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about both possibilities. Of course, we're going to

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Speaker 2: do the quantum superposition. We're going to do the forwards

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Speaker 2: and the backwards. All right, Well, let's start with the

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Speaker 2: basics here at Daniel. What is a black hole?

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Speaker 1: First of all, so we don't really know what a

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Speaker 1: black hole is in the actual universe, and we don't

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Speaker 1: actually even really know if black holes exist as described

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Speaker 1: by the theory. We have this concept in general relativity

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Speaker 1: that if you get enough stuff together, its gravity will

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Speaker 1: overcome any sort of internal strength, any power of the

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Speaker 1: material to resist being compressed. The gravity will eventually get

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Speaker 1: so strong that it will just squeeze it down further

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Speaker 1: and further and further. And as it gets denser and denser,

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Speaker 1: the gravity gets stronger and stronger, and you get this

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Speaker 1: crazy runaway effect where gravity essentially becomes infinitely strong in

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Speaker 1: a tiny little dot, this singularity at a point in

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Speaker 1: space where you have not infinite mass, but infinite density

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Speaker 1: because gravity has compressed some blob of stuff down to

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Speaker 1: a very very small distance. And because it's compressed it

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Speaker 1: so far, it means that you can get pretty close

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Speaker 1: to a lot of mass, which means the even nearby

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Speaker 1: it would be very strong, so strong that we think

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Speaker 1: that it curves space so much that light cannot even

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Speaker 1: escape it. So if these things are real, if they're

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Speaker 1: out there in the universe, then whatever falls into this

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Speaker 1: black hole you will never see again because light from

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Speaker 1: it cannot escape.

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Speaker 2: Would you say it's an actual hole in space, Daniel?

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Speaker 2: You know, if you define a hole as something that

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Speaker 2: you can fall into, then it's technically it is. That's

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Speaker 2: why it's called a hole. Right.

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Speaker 1: If you accept the general relativity view of it, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a hole because it makes a portion of

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Speaker 1: space that's cut off from the rest of the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's like a little sub universe, and once you enter

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Speaker 1: that sub universe, you really are cut off from the

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Speaker 1: rest of it. I mean, inside the black hole, you

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Speaker 1: can still see the rest of the universe. Light from

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Speaker 1: the rest of the universe can still reach you, so

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Speaker 1: you can see out from it, but nobody can see

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Speaker 1: into it. Right, So in that sense, it's a hole

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Speaker 1: in space.

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Speaker 2: Right, Although that's assuming your eyeball is still in one

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Speaker 2: piece when you're inside of a black hole.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, precisely, assuming that you survive long enough to

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Speaker 1: look out into the black hole. And black holes can

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Speaker 1: come in all sorts of sizes. You can make a

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Speaker 1: black hole in theory out of a pretty small amount

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Speaker 1: of mass as long as you squeeze it down to

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Speaker 1: a small enough radius. You can also make black holes

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Speaker 1: out of enormous masses. Some of the things out there

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Speaker 1: that we think our black holes probably have millions or

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Speaker 1: billion times the mass of our sun. Those black holes

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Speaker 1: are really really big, and if you fall into one

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Speaker 1: of those, the gravity at the outskirts of the black

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Speaker 1: hole is not actually that strong. I mean, it's strong

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Speaker 1: enough to suck up light, but it's not so strong

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Speaker 1: to like tear you apart to spaghettify you. So you

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Speaker 1: might be able to survive the very first few moments

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Speaker 1: of falling into a really really big black hole.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you could take a selfie, although you

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Speaker 2: can never send that selfie to anyone.

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Speaker 1: Hey, selfies are just for yourself, right, That's.

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Speaker 2: Why they're called selfie. Ironically, that is the opposite purpose

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Speaker 2: of a selfie.

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Speaker 1: This should be called that everyone else's.

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Speaker 2: But it is interesting what you said about black holes

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Speaker 2: having a size, because it's it's like a hole in space,

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Speaker 2: but it does have volume, right, Like, it does occupy

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Speaker 2: three dimensional space. In fact, it's a sphere in space, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean it just kind of distorted space, but it

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Speaker 2: does sort of occupy a certain you know, length with

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Speaker 2: in height.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you say black hole, you're probably imagining like

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Speaker 1: a circle on the ground, a two dimensional object that

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Speaker 1: things can like fall into and disappear like in cartoon shoe's.

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Speaker 1: But as you say, there are three dimensional objects. So

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Speaker 1: the simplest black hole, one that isn't spinning, would be

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Speaker 1: a perfect sphere and you can fall into it from

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Speaker 1: any direction. If you're looking at a perfect sphere that's

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Speaker 1: perfectly black, it's always just going to look like a

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Speaker 1: circle to you because there's no texture to us, so

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Speaker 1: you can't sort of like tell how much curvature it has.

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Speaker 1: But actually, if you look at a black hole, you

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Speaker 1: don't even really just see a black sphere. It looks

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Speaker 1: even bigger than it actually is because the paths of

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Speaker 1: light around the black hole are really really weird. Like

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Speaker 1: if somebody was very close to the edge of the

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Speaker 1: black hole on the back side of it and turned

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Speaker 1: on a flashlight, you could see it on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the black hole because the light from that

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Speaker 1: flashlight would curve around the black hole, bent by its

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Speaker 1: incredible gravity to your eyeballs. So if you're near a

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Speaker 1: black hole, if you're just looking at it, you can

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Speaker 1: actually see the entire surface of the black hole right

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Speaker 1: in front of you. You can see the front and

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Speaker 1: the back.

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Speaker 2: Right though it just looks black, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it just looks like a bigger black circle than

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Speaker 1: it actually is. It's like puffed up, yeah, like puffed up,

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Speaker 1: because in the vicinity of a black hole, space is

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Speaker 1: curved and when space is curved, you can't trust your

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Speaker 1: eyes to be just showing you what is there. You're

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Speaker 1: seeing now an image of what is there, and then

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Speaker 1: image can be distorted, just like if you're in a

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Speaker 1: funhouse mirror and it's not flat and what you're seeing

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Speaker 1: isn't reality. The same is true near a black hole.

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Speaker 1: Light doesn't travel in straight lines anymore, and so what

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Speaker 1: you see is an image just generated by the physical

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Speaker 1: stuff that's there, but it's not a fully faithful image

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Speaker 1: of what's actually out there.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit mind bending because a black hole

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Speaker 2: is sort of like a sphere right, sort of has

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Speaker 2: a surface, but it's not really a surface because it's

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Speaker 2: not solid. It's just kind of like the edge of

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Speaker 2: the hole. So it's like a three dimensional edge of

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Speaker 2: a hole. It's the surface of a black hole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what you call the edge of a black

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Speaker 1: hole is a little bit arbitrary. We usually use the

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Speaker 1: location of the event horizon, the point past which light

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Speaker 1: and particles and nothing can escape, to mark the edge

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Speaker 1: of the black hole. But there's nothing there at the edge.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like a calculation we do to say

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Speaker 1: where it is, and you can't actually even tell where

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Speaker 1: the event horizon is until the end of the universe.

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Speaker 1: The definition of the event horizon is any particle past

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Speaker 1: this point never escapes. But it's not always easy to

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Speaker 1: tell exactly what can escape and what can't, and so

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Speaker 1: you can't actually know in any moment where the event

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Speaker 1: horizon is. You have to sort of like wait to

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Speaker 1: the end of time and then say, particles that got

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Speaker 1: closer than this, none of them escaped. So here was

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Speaker 1: the event horizon.

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Speaker 2: Right, because to actually like falling to the hole that

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Speaker 2: sort of almost sort of never happens, right, because time

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Speaker 2: gets so distorted around the black hole that it basically,

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Speaker 2: as you said, happens never.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And also there's just like nothing there at the

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Speaker 1: event horizon. It's not like a surface you land on.

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Speaker 1: It's just a point of no return. It's like if

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Speaker 1: you got into your car and you drove too far

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Speaker 1: away from a gas station so that you didn't have

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Speaker 1: enough gas to get to the next gas station. Nothing

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Speaker 1: would happen at that moment when you had gone too far.

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Speaker 1: You would only realize it later like, oops, we forgot

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Speaker 1: to get gas and now we're stranded. The moment when

442
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: you've crossed that threshold where you're now too far away

443
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: from the nearest gas station you don't have enough fuel

444
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 1: to get one. No warning light necessarily goes off, and

445
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: the same is true for the event horizon. It just

446
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 1: feels like the rest of space. You pass through it,

447
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: and unbeknownst to you, you are now trapped inside the

448
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 1: black hole.

449
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 8: Right.

450
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 2: Although you know, if you're flying that close to a

451
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: black hole, you can't claim not to have seen it

452
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 2: because it's going to look pretty big to you flying

453
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: close to a black hole, right.

454
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's definitely irresponsible space flight, and the same

455
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 1: way like you should know if you're about to run

456
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 1: out of gas and somebody should be paying attention to.

457
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: It, or at least there should be a warning alarm on

458
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 2: your space black hole ahead, use your Z powers now.

459
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: But as you said, it does sort of occupy space

460
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 2: because it is an object, although it doesn't have less

461
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 2: solid surface. And it's also like moving around in space, right,

462
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: black holes can move around in space. Even though there

463
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: are holes in space, they can move around in space.

464
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 2: It's like a moving hole.

465
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there are a thing, right. They are made

466
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: out of mass and so like everything else, they have

467
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: a location and then they can have a velocity, but

468
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, the velocity of the black hole is relative.

469
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: Just like everything else. If you are moving towards a

470
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: black hole, you could also say the black hole is

471
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: moving towards you. There is no difference in the physics

472
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: of the universe in those two pictures, and so black holes,

473
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: like everything else, can have location and velocity.

474
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, there could be one moving towards us right now.

475
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: Right almost definitely, because we know that there's a super

476
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: massive black hole at the heart of the Andromeda Galaxy

477
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 1: which is coming for us. Right The Andromeda Galaxy is

478
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: going to collide with the Milky Way in a few

479
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: billion years, and so the black holes at the heart

480
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: of each galaxy are moving towards the other galaxy. So yeah,

481
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: black hole are headed our way.

482
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: Better get working on that Z force, Daniel. We're counting

483
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: on you.

484
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: I only have the P force, the physics force. Other

485
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: people have to work on the Z force, or I

486
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: could be the W force for whiteson.

487
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: There you go. I guess the Andromeda black hole, that's

488
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: something we don't want to catch, although if you find

489
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: a good container for it, I guess, yeah, maybe you do.

490
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's talk about whether or not a

491
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 2: black hole can be involved in an eclipse, whether it

492
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: can eclipse other things, or whether you can eclipse a

493
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: black hole. But first, let's take a quick break.

494
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,080
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Speaker 1: and every bite, But the people in the dairy industry

545
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550
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561
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Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about the physics of Pokemon, right,

562
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 2: that's the title of the episode.

563
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: That's right, Pokemon characters use physics on each other.

564
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: I feel like that would be a pretty viral title

565
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: to put on this episode.

566
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: What do you think the physics of Pokemon? It might

567
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: be viral. It would also be totally misleading, but I

568
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: guess that's how everything goes viral.

569
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: But we could do a whole episode on this right,

570
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: just pick a bunch of Pokemon cars and we'll break

571
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: down the physics of their superpowers.

572
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah' go like this, Yeah that's totally made up. Yeah

573
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: that's where Yeah that's ridiculous.

574
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: But could it happened? Aren't there books about the physics

575
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: of Star Trek and Star Wars.

576
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: In a multiverse where Pokemon is real?

577
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: We are talking about the powers of one specific Pokemon.

578
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: Which Pokemon has this power? Daniel did? Did you look

579
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: up the name?

580
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: Well, according to my research, it says any non mega

581
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: evolved non primal Pokemon can use black hole e clip

582
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: if it knows a damaging dark type move and holds

583
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: darkenium z and if it's trainer whereas a z ring.

584
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: So if that made sense to you, please explain it

585
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: to me.

586
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot of preconditions there, so any Pokemon

587
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: that checks those boxes can use it.

588
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently any non mega evolved non primal Pokemon. I

589
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a lot of them or just one.

590
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: You should have interviewed an expert. But anyways, we're asking

591
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: the question of whether or not you can actually eclipse

592
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: a black hole or I guess involve a black hole

593
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: in an eclipse. And you said, Daniel, there's two possibilities here.

594
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: You can either eclipse a black hole or have the

595
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: black hole eclipse something else. And so I guess, first

596
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: of all, Daniel, what's the legal definition of an eclipse?

597
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: So, an eclipse is a fun astronomical situation where two

598
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: things fall along the same line, your line of sight.

599
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 1: So you're looking out into the universe and you can

600
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: imagine a line between your eyeball and some object. If

601
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: something else passes along that line, then it has eclipsed

602
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: whatever you were looking at. So if you're looking at

603
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the Sun not recommended, and the Moon passes in front

604
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: of it, then that's a solar eclipse.

605
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 7: Right.

606
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: The Moon is eclipsing the Sun because it's passing along

607
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: the line between your eyeball and the Sun.

608
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 6: Mmm.

609
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: Interesting, So if it technically, if I put my thumb

610
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: in front of me and block out the Sun, I'm

611
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: creating a solar eclipse. That's what you're saying.

612
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I mean your thumb is not an astronomical object.

613
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: Have you seen my sun? It's pretty stellar.

614
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: It's been a while. So assuming you've upgraded it with

615
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: your Z powers, then the or his thumb can perform

616
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: an eclipse. One of my favorite things though about solar

617
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: eclipses is that they're possible, right, Like, the Moon can

618
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: block the Sun in the sky, which requires not just

619
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: that the Moon goes in front of the Sun, but

620
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: that the Moon is the same size or bigger than

621
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: the Sun in the sky. The amazing thing is that

622
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: the Moon and the Sun are just about the same

623
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: size in our sky, like they can eclipse each other

624
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: just which is a total cosmic coincidence. The Moon could

625
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: have been bigger, or it could have been further, or

626
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: it could have been closer. They don't have to be

627
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: the same apparent size in the sky, and yet they are.

628
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty wild coincidence. Although it is also

629
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: a function of where we are right now, right, because

630
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: eventually the Moon is going to move further away from

631
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Earth and so it'll looks smaller than the Sun.

632
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it gets smaller and smaller every year.

633
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: And before like maybe in prehistoric times or millions of

634
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: years ago, the Moon looked bigger than the Sun during

635
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: a solar eclipse.

636
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the Sun is also growing in size as

637
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: it gets older, right, and pushing out more of its

638
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: layers further and further so the Sun is getting bigger

639
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: and the moon is getting smaller, And it's a really

640
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: valuable lesson about coincidences. You know, sometimes we see coincidences

641
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: out there in the universe and we go, ooh, there

642
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: must be an explanation for that. It can't be by chance,

643
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: But sometimes it is. Right, we don't think there's a

644
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: reason that the moon and the Sun happen to appear

645
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: to be the same size in our sky, but it

646
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: seems like a huge coincidence. But sometimes they just happen.

647
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess the coincidence is that they're almost

648
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: the same size and from our point of view in

649
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: the sky. But it's sort of not a coincidence that

650
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: it just happens to fly in front of the Sun, right,

651
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: Because the Moon is you know, spinning around the Earth

652
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: all the time, and we're spinning around the Sun all

653
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: the time, and so technically the moon kind of sits

654
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: everywhere at any point in the sky at some point eventually, right,

655
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: So it's not a coincidence that it just happens to

656
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: fly in front of the Sun.

657
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: That's right. And most of the things in the Solar

658
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: system are in the same plane, and so it's possible

659
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: for them to line up. If the Moon, for example,

660
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: was orbiting the Earth outside the plane of the Earth's orbit,

661
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: it'd be much harder for it to eclipse the Sun.

662
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: But because it moves around in the same plane, then

663
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: it gets itself between the Earth and the Sun, and

664
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: of course it doesn't eclipse the entire Earth. The Moon

665
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: casts a shadow on the Earth, and that shadow moves

666
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: across the surface of the Earth. When you're in that shadow,

667
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: then you can see the eclipse. And at the same time,

668
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: there are people who are not in that shadow who

669
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: can still see the Sun sort of around the side

670
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: of the Moon because they have a different angle. I

671
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: saw the total clips back in twenty eighteen, was it.

672
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: It's a pretty awesome event.

673
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's another one coming up in a year

674
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: or two.

675
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Right, There are a bunch of eclipses all around the

676
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: world in the next few years, and if you have

677
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: the opportunity to see them, I totally encourage you. Even

678
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: though it has no deep astronomical significance, it's just sort

679
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: of like a cool event. It makes you feel connected

680
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: to people who have seen these things since prehistoric times

681
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: and looked up and wondered like, whoa, something is different

682
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: about the sky today. I wonder what that means.

683
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like I feel connected to my thumb whenever

684
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: I put it in front of the sun.

685
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: Are there times you don't feel connected to your thumb?

686
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: That's what we should worry about.

687
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like the thumb is we're not connecting

688
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: into deep level.

689
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: You know, you and your thumb needs to go to therapy.

690
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: It sounds like work out these issues.

691
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you know anyone Maybe there's a good

692
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: podcast for that.

693
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Maybe I can point you to one.

694
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: I couldn't point. Awesome. My index finger isn't talking to

695
00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: me either, so.

696
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: It's always a surprise in the podcast. This is a

697
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: direction I never would have guessed.

698
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's interesting. So what do you call a

699
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: solar eclipse? Is when something blocks your view of it? Right, Like,

700
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: you can also have a moon eclipse, right, a lunar eclipse.

701
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That's when the Earth gets between the

702
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: Sun and the moon, and so the Moon is then

703
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: blocked from the Sun by the Earth, and so you

704
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: can still see the moon, but it's sort of like shaded.

705
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: It turns a funny color because it's no longer getting

706
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: as much direct sunlight because it's in the Earth's shadow.

707
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: So basically eclipses are like when somebody gets into somebody

708
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: else's shadow.

709
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: Right, Or I guess technically a lunar eclipse is like

710
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: an Earth eclipse if you were standing on the moon.

711
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, although if you were on the Moon, you would

712
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: probably call that a solar eclipse, right, because the Sun

713
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: would be getting eclipsed.

714
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: Are you saying it's all relative, Daniel, It's.

715
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: All relative and the names are not consistent. That's exactly

716
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: the lesson of the podcast, all right.

717
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: And so it's interesting that you can you can block

718
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: out the light from the Sun, but that applies also

719
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: to any starr, Like you can have eclipses out there

720
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: in space with any star, not just our Sun.

721
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: That's right. Stars out there have their own planets, and

722
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: those planets have moons, and so on those planets there

723
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: are eclipses happening. Those planets. Moons are blocking that Sun's

724
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: light and creating shadows which crawl along the surface of

725
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: those planets around other stars, and maybe aliens are looking

726
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: up at those and being impressed by the astronomical display.

727
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: But we can actually see those eclipses as well, because

728
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: sometimes those planets pass in front of their star, blocking

729
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: a little bit of the light from that star. So

730
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: instead of making a line from your eyeball to our sun,

731
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: now imagine a line from your eyeball to some star

732
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: far far away, millions or billions of miles away, and

733
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: a planet can pass along that line. Now, because you're

734
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: so far away, the planet can't hope to block the

735
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: entire star, but what it can do is dim it

736
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: a tiny little bit. And that's actually one way that

737
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: we discover planets around other stars. We see them making

738
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: these sort of mini or partial eclipses of their star.

739
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one way we can detect planets in other stars.

740
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: And in fact, you sort of look for stars that

741
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: twinkle a little bit periodically, right with a constant beat,

742
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: and that kind of tells you, hey, maybe it has

743
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: a planet swinging around it.

744
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. You study the brightness of the star and you

745
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: notice a dimming and it dims periodically. So it dims

746
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: for like a few days, and then it gets bright

747
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: again for a fixed amount of days, and then it

748
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: dims again, and it happens periodically, and that's how you

749
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: can tell that something is going in front of it

750
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: and blocking it, because otherwise stars can just twinkle and

751
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: dust clouds can interfere with your observation. But if it's

752
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: something regular, then you know that it's probably something orbiting

753
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: near the star that's moving around it. And so it's

754
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: a really powerful way to discover these other planets and

755
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: also to measure their size, because the more dimming you get,

756
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: the bigger the planet is. And these are always tiny

757
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: little eclipses. You need really sensitive telescopes to even notice

758
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: that these things are dimming. You could never see this

759
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: with a naked die.

760
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: Right, And so if you see a star out there

761
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: dimming and being eclipsed regularly, it might be a planet

762
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: in its orbit. But it's kind of interesting also to

763
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: think about that. You know, there are probably eclipses happening

764
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: all the time with all the stars out there, right,

765
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: Like maybe even asteroid flies near us or it gets

766
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: in our way between us and another star. Technically that's

767
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: an eclipse too.

768
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably true, And there eclipses happening that we

769
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: can't see.

770
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 6: Right.

771
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: This technique of seeing these planets relies on the planet

772
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: lining up with our line of sight to that star.

773
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: There are plenty of planets out there around stars that

774
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: are just not aligned with us. Like we talked about

775
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: how in our Solar system the Moon and the Earth

776
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: and the Sun are mostly aligned in the disc of

777
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: the Solar system. But the disc of our Solar system

778
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: is not the same as the disc of other solar systems.

779
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Those are mostly random. I mean, every solar system has

780
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: its own disc, and the planets mostly follow that disk,

781
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: but the arrangement of our disc relative to other Solar

782
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: system discs is kind of random, which means that most stars,

783
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: when their planet passes in front of them, don't cause

784
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: an eclip that we can see.

785
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're talking about whether or not you

786
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: can involve a black hole in an eclipse, and so Daniel,

787
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: can can you eclipse a black hole? Or can a

788
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: black hole eclipse something else?

789
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really fun question. Let's first talk about

790
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: whether you can eclipse a black hole. And the first

791
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: question is like, well, could you see a black hole anyway?

792
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: Right? Like, technically, what does it mean to see a

793
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: black hole? Like, even if there was nothing between you

794
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: and the black hole, are you actually seeing a hole?

795
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: Like that hole is the absence of something, right exactly?

796
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: A shadow can't cast a shadow, right, in the case

797
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: of an eclipse on the Earth, the Moon is casting

798
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: a shadow on the Earth, but a black hole does

799
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: it give off anything to create a shadow. And so

800
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: technically a pure classical general relativity black hole is completely black.

801
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: If you saw it out in the middle space, you

802
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: would not see it doesn't give off any light. The

803
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: only way you could see it is if it was

804
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: in front of something else that was bright. It was

805
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: like passing in front of a star and eclipsing it.

806
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: So a classical black hole doesn't give off any light.

807
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: Something could technically block your view of the black hole, right,

808
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: Like if a planet happened to fly between you and

809
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: the black hole, you wouldn't see the black hole anymore.

810
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: Would you call that an eclipse?

811
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: That sounds like a legal decision. I mean, the black

812
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: hole is not giving off any light than is it

813
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: being eclipsed.

814
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: Right, And let's say behind the black hole isn't like

815
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: a galaxy or something bright, or a cloud of a

816
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: bright cloud of gas or something, So you could actually

817
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 2: without the planet blocking you would see the black hole.

818
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: But now there's a planet between you and the black hole,

819
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: so you don't see the black hole, And technically it

820
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: would sort of look like an eclipse, right, it'd be

821
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: like a black circle getting blocked by something maybe brighter.

822
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's technically possible, but we do things that black

823
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: holes do give off a little bit of radiation in

824
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: some cases, and that black holes create an environment that

825
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: gives off a lot of radiation a lot of light.

826
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: So if you move away from just like the classical

827
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: general relativity pure black sphere and talk about like the

828
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: quantum version of it, or if you talk about the

829
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: stuff around the black hole and the environment created by

830
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: the black hole, then that could be.

831
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: Eclipsed, right, because what stuff falls into the black hole,

832
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: it tends to get sped up so fast that it

833
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 2: actually burns up and then that's bright.

834
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: Right, So are things when they come near the black hole.

835
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: They don't always fall right in. I mean, if your

836
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: head's straight for the black hole, you're going into the

837
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: black hole. But if you sort of go near the

838
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: black hole, then you get bent towards it and you

839
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: sort of spin around it for a long time before

840
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: falling in. And so that's called the accretion disc. It's

841
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: like stuff that's on deck to be sucked into the

842
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: black hole. And while you're in the accretion disc The

843
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: black hole is still working you. It's got these tidal forces.

844
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: It's pulling on the part that's closer to you harder

845
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: than the part that's further from you, because gravity is

846
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: stronger for closer things, and so big clouds of gas

847
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: and dust that are about to fall into the black

848
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: hole have a lot of internal friction because of the

849
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: black hole's tidal forces. So they get heated up incredibly

850
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: hot and emit a lot of radiation, and some stuff

851
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: almost falls into the black hole, but the strong magnetic

852
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: fields like guided around the black hole hole and it

853
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: gets spun out at the top of the black hole,

854
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: making these enormous jets of radiation. So black holes, even

855
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: though themselves past the event horizon are black, the stuff

856
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: around them could actually be very very bright. These things

857
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: quasars are some of the brightest things in the universe.

858
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had episodes about that. Now. It's kind of ironic, right,

859
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: that some of the brightest things in the universe actually

860
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: come from black holes.

861
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they are the source of a lot of

862
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: gravitational energy, so they can speed stuff up, they can

863
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: focus stuff, they can shoot stuff in another direction. Even

864
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: though you know, if they actually ate that stuff up,

865
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: you would never see it. But when they're not actually

866
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: eating stuff, they're also powering the acceleration of other stuff nearby,

867
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: which creates fantastical light shows, and those light shows can

868
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: be eclipsed right.

869
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: Right, Although, as you said earlier, not every black hole

870
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: has these light shows, right, Like, there's a whole range

871
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: of black holes. There are maybe black holes who are

872
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: sitting all by themselves somewhere with nothing around it to

873
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: feed it to make it bright. And there are black

874
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: holes with huge clouds of stuff that is constantly falling

875
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: into the black hole.

876
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a broad diversity of black holes. The ones

877
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: with big accretion discs are the ones that are easier

878
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: for us to see because you can see the accretion

879
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: disc right. Otherwise, it's very difficult to spot a black hole.

880
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: You have to see it passing in front of something else.

881
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: You have to see it eclipsing something in order to

882
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: spot it. Mostly the way that we've identified black holes

883
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: is from their accretion disc or from like the motion

884
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: of stuff near them, indicating that there must be something

885
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: very very heavy but not bright there.

886
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think I see what you're saying. Like, if

887
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: you define an eclipse as when you're blocking the light

888
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: that's coming from something else. Then you sort of need

889
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 2: the situation where the black hole is giving off light

890
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: from its accretion disk to have a black hole eclipse.

891
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Otherwise you're just having a shadow of a shadow.

892
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what that is, but probably

893
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: exists in the Pokemon universe.

894
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: Well, a shadow of a shadow is a double shadow.

895
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: It's a shadow squared.

896
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: But I guess you could technically block the shadow of

897
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: a shadow, right, like you could blog looking at a shadow.

898
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose. I mean, if you stand in a shadow,

899
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: do you still have your own shadow? I don't know.

900
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: That's a philosophical question. That's like the sound of one

901
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: hand clapping.

902
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: Well, I guess you need like a third source of

903
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: light or something.

904
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, then you get all sorts of complicated shadows.

905
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,959
Speaker 2: But you're saying, there's a situation in which a black

906
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: hole could have an accretion disc around it, which would

907
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: make it bright, in which case something could float between

908
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: you and it and block your view of this light source.

909
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: Exactly, and that would be a really powerful way to

910
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: see interesting things really really far away, because black holes

911
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: are very very bright when we see them. We can

912
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: see them in very very distant, very ancient galaxies, so

913
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: the very powerful probe of what's out there in the universe.

914
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: There's sort of like these pencil rays of light that

915
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: shine out into the universe. We can use them to

916
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: measure like the density of stuff along that ray. We

917
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: once talked about the cosmic web and how we use

918
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: these pencil rays of light from quasars to like illuminate

919
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: the universe and tell like where the dark matter is

920
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: and where these filaments of gas between the galaxies are

921
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: super interesting. And when something else happens to pass in

922
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: front of that pencil ray of light in a way

923
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: that we can see it, then we can use that

924
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: to identify something. We can use that to see something

925
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: that otherwise would have been invisible to us. So we

926
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: can use these eclipses as ways to find stuff really

927
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: really far away.

928
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: Wait, wait do you mean what what does this stuff

929
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: do well?

930
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: For example, the technique we talked about for finding planets

931
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: around other stars that mostly only works in our galaxy

932
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: because the stars have to be close enough for us

933
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: to resolve a single star and measure its brightness very effectively,

934
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: So it's very difficult to see exoplanets in other galaxies,

935
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: because remember, our galaxies like one hundred thousand light years across.

936
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: Other galaxies are like millions of light years away, so

937
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: we can't really use that technique to find planets around

938
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: stars in other galaxies. But scientists have recently used this

939
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: to find planets passing in front of black holes in

940
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: other galaxies because black holes are such intense sources of

941
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: this kind of radiation.

942
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: Whoa, because they act like a beacon within that other galaxy.

943
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: But is this a planet that is part of the

944
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: black hole system or is this like a random planet

945
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: floating around another start it just happens to one's fly

946
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: in front of the black hole.

947
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: We don't know, and in the case of a recent observation,

948
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: the theory is that it might be a planet orbiting

949
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: a black hole with a period of about seventy years,

950
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: which means that we wouldn't know for another seventy years

951
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: because we'd have to wait that long to see the

952
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: next eclipse. If it is in fact orbiting that black hole.

953
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: If it's just like a random transit, some blob passing

954
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: in front of the black hole, then it won't happen again.

955
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: But they actually did see this. They looked out with

956
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: the Chandra X ray telescope at a galaxy called the

957
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: Whirlpool galaxy, and they saw this kind of eclipse.

958
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: Meaning that we're looking at this galaxy that's far away,

959
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: and we think that the light coming from it is

960
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: a black hole.

961
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: That's right. We can zoom in on one part of

962
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: that galaxy, and they think that there's a binary system there.

963
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: They have like a normal like star and around it

964
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: is orbiting a black hole, and the black hole's probably

965
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 1: from some other star which collapsed and left a black hole.

966
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 1: So the origin is probably some binary star system. Two

967
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: stars orbiting each other, and that's a little bit surprisingly

968
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: not uncommon, because stars tend to form near each other.

969
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: One of them becomes a black hole. They have this

970
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: binary system where the black hole is now like sucking

971
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: material from the other star and it generates a very

972
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: bright accretion disc. And so from that black hole you

973
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: now have this very intense source of radiation, and the

974
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: telescope consume in on that and see the radiation from

975
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: the accretion disc of this black hole as it eats

976
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: its sibling.

977
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: Wait, the black hole is orbiting the Sun. I guess

978
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: it's a smaller mass than the Sun.

979
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: Well, they's sort of orbiting each other, right, the two

980
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: both came from stars, and the black hole doesn't have

981
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: all the mass of the original star came from. Probably

982
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: these two stars started out similar mass, and so more

983
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: accurately you would say they orbit each other.

984
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: And then on top of that, they think that maybe

985
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 2: there's a planet orbiting around the black hole that's orbiting around.

986
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: The Sun exactly, because the black hole is actually quite small,

987
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: it's very compact, and so when this planet passes in

988
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: front of the black hole, it actually eclipses a good

989
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: fraction of it. When we think about a planet transitting

990
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: in front of a star in our galaxy, it's a

991
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: tiny little dip in front of that star. But here,

992
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: because the accretion disk in the black hole are very compact,

993
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: every compressed by gravity, this planet actually blocked most of

994
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: the light from this accretion disc as it passed forward.

995
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: So you can look at like the brightness of this

996
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: black hole over time, and they see this huge dip

997
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: as something apparently eclipsed it. It clips the black hole,

998
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: clips the black hole.

999
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they only saw this once, or have they

1000
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 2: seen this periodically?

1001
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: They've only seen it once. They have a model for

1002
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: this system and how far away this planet would have

1003
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: to be and how big it is, and in that

1004
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: model it takes about seventy years to orbit this system.

1005
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: But of course they're not making the grad student wait

1006
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: seventy years to graduate.

1007
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: Although it could have also been like an asteroid passing

1008
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: in front of the Chandra telescoper, something that could have

1009
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:01,479
Speaker 2: caused this dip.

1010
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there's a lot of possibilities. We don't see

1011
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: this thing very directly. We only just see a dip

1012
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: in this black hole, which we otherwise can't explain, which

1013
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: I mean something probably passed in front of it to

1014
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: block our view. And one hypothesis is a planet, but

1015
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: we can't tell very precisely.

1016
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: Right, it could have been somebody's thumb.

1017
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: Maybe did you put your thumb on Chindo that day?

1018
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 1: Or hey, is that what happened?

1019
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. My son doesn't tell me everything it does.

1020
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: That's the whole problem.

1021
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: But if it's true, then it's really interesting because it's

1022
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: the first time we've discovered a planet in a far

1023
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: away galaxy using this transit technique.

1024
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: Hmm. Interesting, that's amazing, and it'd be amazing to be

1025
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 2: on that planet. Can you imagine living on that planet

1026
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: and having like not just the sun, but a black

1027
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 2: hole also kind of like sunrising and sunsetting every day.

1028
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: And seeing the black hole eat your sun. Right, That

1029
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: sun gets dimmer and dimmer every year as the black

1030
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: hole pulls the material out of it.

1031
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: Wow, that'd be a pretty amazing view when you look

1032
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 2: up from that planet. I wonder if that's where pokemon are.

1033
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: From, that's where they get their Z power.

1034
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, from the view, it's so amazing. All right, Well,

1035
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: we've seen a black hole get eclipse, and there are

1036
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: other examples of that, and there's also the reverse situation

1037
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: of whether or not a black hole can eclipse something else.

1038
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 2: So let's get into those. But first, let's take another

1039
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 2: quick break.

1040
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

1041
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

1042
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

1043
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are us. Dairy

1044
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

1045
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

1046
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste

1047
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

1048
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

1049
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

1050
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: the barn, and ear gates the crops. How is US

1051
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that

1052
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: turn the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can

1053
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: power farms, towns, and electric cars. So the next time

1054
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: you grab a slice of pizza or lick an ice

1055
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: cream cone, know that dairy farmers and processors around the

1056
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: country are using the latest practices and innovations to provide

1057
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: the nutrient dense dairy products we love with less of

1058
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: an impact. Visit usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

1059
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which

1060
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 3: recently hit the number one science podcast in America.

1061
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 4: I'm a neuroscientists at Stanford and.

1062
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 3: I've spent my career exploring the three pound universe in

1063
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 3: our heads.

1064
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 4: We're looking at a whole new.

1065
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 3: Series of episodes this season to understand why and how

1066
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 3: our lives look the way they do. Why does your

1067
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to

1068
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 3: keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?

1069
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 3: Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And

1070
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 3: why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions

1071
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 3: and hundreds more because the more we know about what's

1072
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: running under the hood, better we can steer our lives.

1073
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 4: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

1074
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: Between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions.

1075
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app,

1076
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1077
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,800
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1078
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1079
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1080
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1081
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1083
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1090
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1092
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Speaker 15: promote our podcast, Part Time Genius.

1094
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 14: I know.

1095
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 16: That's why I spent my whole week composing a haikup

1096
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 16: for the occasion. It's about my emotional journey in podcasting

1097
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 16: over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House.

1098
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 15: Mega Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there.

1099
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 15: Why don't we just tell people about our show instead?

1100
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 16: Yeah, that's a better idea. So every week on Part

1101
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 16: Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's

1102
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 16: most important questions, things like when did America start dialing

1103
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 16: nine to one?

1104
00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 12: One?

1105
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 16: Is William Shatton? There's best acting work in Esperanto? Also

1106
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 16: what happened to Esperanto? Plus we cover.

1107
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 15: Questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food? How do

1108
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 15: dollar stores stay in business? And of course is there

1109
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 15: an Illuminati of cheese?

1110
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 16: There absolutely is, and we are risking our lives by

1111
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 16: talking about it. But if you love mind blowing facts,

1112
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 16: incredible history and really bad jokes. Make your brains happy

1113
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 16: and tune into Part Time Genius.

1114
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 15: Listen to Part Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or

1115
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 15: wherever you get your podcasts.

1116
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about black hole eclipses, whether or

1117
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: not you can eclipse a black hole or whether a

1118
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: black hole can eclipse something else. And it turns out

1119
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: that yes, you can eclipse a black hole. We've seen it.

1120
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: We have data from a black hole being eclipse out

1121
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 2: there in another galaxy.

1122
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: That's right. Even though black holes are super powerful in

1123
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: the real world and in Pokemon, you can just stand

1124
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: in front of them and block their light.

1125
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. We have data from that. And

1126
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: you said, there's another example of a black hole eclipse

1127
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: that we've seen.

1128
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: That's right. There's a really cool galaxy about sixty million

1129
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: light years away. It goes by the exciting name of

1130
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: NNGC thirteen sixty five, and it's exciting because it has

1131
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: a very active galactic nucleus. This is what astronomers say

1132
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: when they mean that there's a big black hole at

1133
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: the heart of it, and it's very powerful and it's

1134
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: shooting a lot of stuff out. So if you imagine

1135
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: a galaxy is like a big flat disk of stuff,

1136
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: maybe with arms trailing behind it. Now add to that

1137
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: huge jets of stuff shooting up and down sort of

1138
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: from the middle of that disk. So the galaxy is

1139
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: no longer just like flat. It now has like an

1140
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: axle around which it's spinning.

1141
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: And so we've seen this galaxy and has something eclipses.

1142
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, astronomers were really curious about what was going on

1143
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: at the heart of that galaxy, and they wanted to

1144
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: know how big was the black hole, and how big

1145
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: was the active part of it, this sort of like

1146
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: really intense part of the center of the galaxy. How

1147
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: big is that accretion disc. Problem is that the galaxy

1148
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: is so far away that it's really hard to measure that.

1149
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: Like we've taken pictures of black holes and their accretion discs,

1150
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: but it's very, very difficult, and for this galaxy, it's

1151
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: too far away for us to even use the event

1152
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: horizon telescope. So they were trying to figure out how

1153
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: big this thing was, and then they got lucky. They

1154
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: got lucky because a big cloud of gas, when they

1155
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: already knew and had studied before, passed in front of

1156
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: the black hole and eclipsed it. Because they knew how

1157
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: big this cloud was and how fast it was going,

1158
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 1: they were able to use that to measure the size

1159
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: of the black hole accretion disc itself.

1160
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: Wait, what so there was a black hole in another

1161
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: galaxy farwaing, and a gas cloud within that galaxy passed

1162
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: in front of it, or between us and that other galaxy.

1163
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: The gas cloud is part of that other galaxy.

1164
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, I see, And how do we know

1165
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 2: how big that gas cloud was? Because it's so far away.

1166
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: It's so far away, but it's really big. And so

1167
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: they were able to measure the size of this gas cloud.

1168
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: It's much bigger than the black hole.

1169
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: But it's big enough to see with the telescope.

1170
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: It's big enough to see. Yeah, we can see other

1171
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: galaxies and we can see individual components of it. We

1172
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: can't always resolve things as small as stars, but big

1173
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: gas clouds we can resolve.

1174
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 2: And so the cloud eclipse the black hole in the

1175
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: middle or the quasar in the middle, like it blocked

1176
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: it completely or just made it kind of fuzzy for

1177
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 2: a while.

1178
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: It blocked it almost completely. I mean, some light can

1179
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: get through it at some wavelengths, but you can see

1180
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: definitely the dramatic dimming of this black hole because this

1181
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: cloud passes in front of the accretion disc, and so

1182
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: as it passes in front of one side of the

1183
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: accretion disk, it starts to dim, and then if it's

1184
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: totally blocking the disk, then you get the minimum brightness.

1185
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,479
Speaker 1: And then as it starts to reveal the accretion disc again,

1186
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: the light comes back up. And so from the size

1187
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: of the gas cloud and the speed the gas cloud

1188
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: was moving, you can figure out the size of the

1189
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 1: accretion disc, which is what the astronomers are really curious

1190
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: to know.

1191
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: Interesting, so these are recorded instances of black hole eclipses,

1192
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,439
Speaker 2: like you could be the astronomer that saw a black

1193
00:54:58,480 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 2: hole eclip.

1194
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And these are lucky coincidences, right, just like

1195
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: the Sun and the Moon lining up. In the case

1196
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: that these things line up in the sky, we can

1197
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: use that to learn something about these systems. We're always

1198
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: taking advantage of what's going on in the universe. Astronomers

1199
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 1: never get to like build experiments and say what happens

1200
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: if I crash these two things together, or if I

1201
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: pass this in front of the other thing. They have

1202
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: to just be clever in other ways of saying, well,

1203
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: I didn't get to design this situation, but what can

1204
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: I do to learn about the universe from it? Anyway?

1205
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: And so I love seeing astronomers be clever this way

1206
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: and figure out, like how to use the lucky lining

1207
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: up of these two objects to learn something about them.

1208
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: And in this case, they used the gas cloud to

1209
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 2: learn about the size of this black hole. What did

1210
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 2: they learn about it?

1211
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: So they learned the size not just to the black hole,

1212
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: but also the disc around it, right, because it's the

1213
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: disc around it, the accretion disc that really is generating

1214
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: that radiation. So they learn that this disc is about

1215
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: seven au wide, where Au is the distance from the

1216
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: Earth to the Sun. And so if you put this

1217
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: thing in our solar system and to extend out past

1218
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: the Earth's orbit and out past Mars, so this thing

1219
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: is really pretty big.

1220
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 2: Wait, we can measure the size of the cloud before,

1221
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: but we couldn't measure the size of the black hole.

1222
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the cloud is bigger than the black hole,

1223
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: so we were able to resolve it all right.

1224
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: Well, the final question is whether a black hole could

1225
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 2: eclipse something else, like if there's a star or a

1226
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: sun out there, and a black hole passes in between

1227
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 2: it and us, would it create an eclipse? That would

1228
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 2: be pretty dramatic, wouldn't it. That would be pretty dramatic,

1229
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: But it's almost impossible. If somebody's standing on the other

1230
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 2: side of a black hole and like turning on and

1231
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 2: off a flashlight, then a lot of those photons would

1232
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: get to you anyway. Remember that space around the black

1233
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: hole is really really curved, so light doesn't always travel

1234
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: in straight lines. So light that comes out from their

1235
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: flashlight that wouldn't otherwise get to your eye gets bent

1236
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: by the black hole towards your eye. So the black

1237
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 2: hole would eat some of the photons from the flashlight,

1238
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 2: but other photons that were going in other directions would

1239
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: get bent towards your eyeball, so you would.

1240
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 1: Still see it.

1241
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: Right, Like if a black hole just happened to fly

1242
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: into our solar system and get between us and the Sun,

1243
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 2: it wouldn't totally block the Sun. It would only block

1244
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: some of it.

1245
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, if somebody stood on the other side of

1246
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: a black hole with a laser of single photons, they

1247
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: could shoot them at the black hole and you would

1248
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: eat them and you wouldn't see it. But if their

1249
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: source has any sort of width to it. If the

1250
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: photons come out at any sort of angle, then some

1251
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: of those are going to get bent around the black

1252
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: hole and towards your eye. We see the same thing

1253
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: happening actually already with the moon. This is Einstein's famous

1254
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: proof of general relativity that space is curved by mass,

1255
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: because he showed that photons from the Sun don't always

1256
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: get blocked by the Moon. The moon bends them around

1257
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: itself a tiny little bit. The Moon is lensing the

1258
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: light from the Sun a little bit, and a black

1259
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: hole would be a very very powerful gravitational lens. So

1260
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to hide behind a black hole, right.

1261
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: You're saying, like, because the Moon is almost the same

1262
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: size as the Sun in the sky, it doesn't totally

1263
00:57:58,160 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: block the Sun because some of the light kind of

1264
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: flows around the Moon and gets to us anyway. But

1265
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 2: if the Moon was bigger right in the sky, might

1266
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: like ten times bigger than the Sun, it would almost

1267
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: totally block the Sun.

1268
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, Although if the Moon was more massive

1269
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: then it would be more effective at bending some of

1270
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: the Sun's light towards us. And so there's two different

1271
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: effects going on there, And So if something is very small,

1272
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: like a black hole and very very dense, it's going

1273
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: to be excellent at gathering light that otherwise wouldn't have

1274
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: gone to you and sending it your direction.

1275
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: So what would we see if a black hole stood

1276
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: between us and our sun? We would see like a

1277
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: black circle with a bright ring around it, right, and

1278
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: then that ring would sort of merge with the Sun

1279
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: and kind of distor the light around it, and then

1280
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: they would block the Sun and then it would keep going.

1281
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It would look really weird and awesome. It

1282
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: reminds me actually of a great science fiction book I read,

1283
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: Perihelion by Greg Egan, where he talks about what happens

1284
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: when a black hole enters our solar system, and it's

1285
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: not something you should look forward to because it would

1286
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: just everything in the solar system, even before it made

1287
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: an impressive distortion of the Sun's light.

1288
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 2: It'd be bad news. But let's say it was a

1289
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 2: really big black hole. It would totally eclipse our sun,

1290
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: right or we still see all of the light from

1291
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 2: the Sun. We wouldn't, right, We would only see some

1292
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: of the light from the Sun get bent around the

1293
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: black hole, but mostly it would be blocked.

1294
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: We wouldn't see all of the light from the sun

1295
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: because photons shot directly towards the center of the black

1296
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: hole would still fall into the black hole, but photons

1297
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: shot in other directions would get bent around it.

1298
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 2: To us, well, there would be a range, right, wouldn't

1299
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 2: there be a range, Like, it's not just the ones

1300
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: directly to the center of the black hole, so the

1301
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: ones a little bit off to the side also get

1302
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: sucked into the black hole.

1303
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. The bigger the black hole, or the closer you

1304
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: are to it, the sort of the wider range of

1305
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: photons that do fall into the black hole, but also

1306
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: the more powerful the black hole, the more it's able

1307
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: to bend other photons around it so that you can

1308
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: see it.

1309
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 2: And have we seen an example of this, I guess

1310
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 2: we kind of have, right, I mean, we've taken pictures

1311
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: of black hole holes. Right, we have pictures of black holes,

1312
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 2: and presumably there are stars behind that black hole that

1313
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: we're not seeing because they're getting blocked by this black hole.

1314
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've seen that directly. We've discovered

1315
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: smaller black holes because of their gravitational effects on like

1316
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: nearby stars. Like if you see a star and it's

1317
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: moving in such a way that you can tell it's

1318
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: orbiting something, but you don't see the thing there, then

1319
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: you deduce that there's probably a black hole there, even

1320
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: if you don't see it. I don't know if we've

1321
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: seen direct lensing of background stuff from a stellar mass

1322
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: black hole.

1323
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: Well, I guess if we have a picture of a

1324
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 2: black hole, technically it was blocking something behind it.

1325
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, assuming there was something behind it, then yeah,

1326
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: it's getting blocked.

1327
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well technically or that has to be something behind it,

1328
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: doesn't there. I mean, it's not like there, it's totally

1329
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: empty space behind.

1330
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: It, right, Yeah, there's always background galaxies no matter how

1331
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: far you look.

1332
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I think your point is that it's complicated, right,

1333
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 2: because black holes bend space so much that it and

1334
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 2: they act like lenses out there in space that it's

1335
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 2: it's kind of a complicated situation to have a black

1336
01:00:58,640 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: hole block something else.

1337
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, black holes are great at bending light and eating photons,

1338
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: but they're also great at showing you what's behind them.

1339
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, but definitely, for sure we're seeing things block black

1340
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: holes from our view. It's just that the situation is

1341
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 2: more complicated for a black hole blocking RV of something else.

1342
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1343
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I think the main lesson is Pokemon

1344
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: was right. I think that's what you're saying.

1345
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: Right, that's right. You don't need a physics degree. Just

1346
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: invest your college savings in Pokemon.

1347
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: That's right. Just catch them all and you can retire

1348
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: to that tropical island or at least pay for your

1349
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: son's college. It kind of caused the same these days, it.

1350
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: Does cost the same. Maybe you'll get a PhD in Pokemon.

1351
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 2: I think there are probably are people getting their PhDs

1352
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 2: on the cultural impact of Pokemon. I'm sure you can

1353
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: get a PhD on anything.

1354
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: Exactly. Everybody can get a PhD.

1355
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I guess the next time you look

1356
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: out into the night sky or even the daytime sky,

1357
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 2: imagine that there are black holes out there being eclipse

1358
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: and also eclipsing our view of the universe, because the

1359
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: universe is full of all these amazing objects.

1360
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: And be impressed by how astronomers are taking advantage of

1361
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: coincidences and happenstance out there in the universe to teach

1362
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: us lessons to reveal the nature of the mysteries of

1363
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: our cosmos.

1364
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: That's right. The main lesson here is don't put your

1365
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 2: thumb down on physics. Give it those thumbs up.

1366
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, two thumbs up to astronomy.

1367
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: All right. We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us,

1368
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 2: See you next time.

1369
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1370
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

1371
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1372
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop

1373
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not

1374
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the

1375
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: dairy industry are. That's why there were working hard every

1376
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources,

1377
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Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US dairy tackling

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Speaker 1: greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the

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Speaker 1: methane from maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

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Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit you as dairy dot COM's Last

1381
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: Sustainability to learn more.

1382
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 9: Hi.

1383
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 3: I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently

1384
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 3: hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a

1385
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 3: neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the

1386
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 3: three pound universe in our heads.

1387
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 4: Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain

1388
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 4: and your life.

1389
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 3: Because the more we know about what's running under the hood,

1390
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 3: bet or we can steer our lives. Listen to Inner

1391
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 3: Cosmos with Savid Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1393
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 5: Parents looking for a screen free, fun and engaging way

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Speaker 5: was looking for the same thing, so I created Kids'

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Speaker 5: Bible Stories podcast. Thousands of families are raving about it,

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Speaker 5: and kids actually request to listen. With captivating sound effects, voices,

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Speaker 5: it's a hit with both kids and parents. Listen to

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Speaker 5: Kids Bible Story's podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

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Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.