Speaker 1: Celebrity book.
Speaker 2: Fuck up. Introna painting was fucked today?
Speaker 1: Wait, Allison passed me the bunk. Okay, I actually kind
Speaker 1: of liked Introni painting. I don't know. That was chill,
Speaker 1: like that professor was. I don't know. I felt like
Speaker 1: she was getting somewhere cool.
Speaker 2: Dude, did you smoke before class or something? Like I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: just like dango snooze.
Speaker 1: Like, okay, I get it, I know, Like yes, do
Speaker 1: you need to canonize more white man? But like he's
Speaker 1: the original tortured artist like come on us and like
Speaker 1: fucking caught off his ear like after he fought with
Speaker 1: another artist, Like that's what art is? A ballot?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry, two white dudes fought in the field
Speaker 2: in France, Like what is this my study abroad trip
Speaker 2: like sophomore year, Like I'm sorry, like like I've learned
Speaker 2: about these guys, Like give me some fucking bascot, Like
Speaker 2: give me Felix Consols tores someone who had real fucking pain.
Speaker 1: I haven't even learned who Felix Conus is yet.
Speaker 2: My dude, dude, he's so lit. He piled fucking candy
Speaker 2: in a.
Speaker 1: Gallery and that's heavy.
Speaker 2: But like but it was about like a disease.
Speaker 1: Like go back, look at the fucking orchard. It's like
Speaker 1: look at the sunflowers. Like Fango's use of color, like
Speaker 1: it was actually I know what you're saying, like the
Speaker 1: brushstrokes are dope, it's newmanous.
Speaker 2: But I'm just kinda like like, Okay, you're in a room,
Speaker 2: you're in a field, you're in Paris, Like shit, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd love to go to Paris, but like the torture, shit,
Speaker 2: I don't buy it. And then we praise him and
Speaker 2: make all these freaking exhibits.
Speaker 1: I think like he was onto like the beauty that
Speaker 1: is everywhere, like the beauty that's.
Speaker 2: In us, Like are you crying?
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. Like look at my Fast and the
Speaker 1: Furious two poster, like do you see the way the light?
Speaker 1: It's the car, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Like but what I'm saying like that's fucking art, like
Speaker 2: that deals with like cars and like urbanism. I guess
Speaker 2: I'm just like, Okay, so like Van go he's this guy,
Speaker 2: he's like tortured, right, and then some like other dude
Speaker 2: was like disguised the goat like eighteen.
Speaker 1: Hold no, no, Allison, like remember like it was this
Speaker 1: brother's widow who was asking him the fuck up.
Speaker 2: Like, oh shit, do you think they're like hooking up?
Speaker 1: I think like it. I'm just saying, like, as like
Speaker 1: woman approved a hug. How much did you pay for
Speaker 1: this ounce? Again?
Speaker 2: Literally twenty five bucks? Uh yeah?
Speaker 1: Wait?
Speaker 2: Have you heard this band of tigra?
Speaker 1: Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends,
Speaker 1: your filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books
Speaker 1: and a bottle of wine to kill.
Speaker 2: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
Speaker 1: I'm shook. It's memoirs Martini.
Speaker 2: Celebrity Poop Club.
Speaker 1: Come read it while it's hot. Celebrity Poop Club, I
Speaker 1: tell your secrets.
Speaker 2: We won't talk celebrity books.
Speaker 1: No boys are a loud celebrity book say it loud
Speaker 1: and pound. Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 2: Buzz me in. I brought the queer foe.
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, best friend? Oh the fuck are you?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? I'm doing pretty good and I have
Speaker 2: to say hashtag season maxing. I'm kind of look so
Speaker 2: into the winter right now.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm so grateful for this berber cold.
Speaker 2: It's like last winter was just so I wasn't even
Speaker 2: wearing any of my heaviest stuff. Now I'm wearing thrashed
Speaker 2: from the thresh starlb in flannel lingeans.
Speaker 1: There's nothing like a Filena leaned pant.
Speaker 2: Hoodie, my heaviest jackets. You're in a thermal. I recently
Speaker 2: have like gone thermal crazy.
Speaker 1: Thermals are so essential for layering.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've had none and now I have three.
Speaker 1: It's so much better to be rich with thermals rich
Speaker 1: and thermal I to be scavengean.
Speaker 2: It just something hits different. And I'm sipping on a
Speaker 2: dove hot coco from our weird Flavia office machine.
Speaker 1: Flavia sounds like a Roman emperor.
Speaker 2: This podcast brought to you by Flavia.
Speaker 1: And is it Flavy a full But isn't it.
Speaker 2: Also so like a pillow for vaginal dryness?
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Talk to your Dodger about maybe with
Speaker 1: Flavy as Flaviac.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it doesn't sound too Labia. And it's a
Speaker 2: woman like running on the beach with her like silver husband.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Flavias medication is always about having silver hair and
Speaker 1: looking like Daniel dan Lois. I'm sitting on some English breakfastie.
Speaker 2: Damn, you're gonna be up for hours with.
Speaker 1: A little bit of full calorie milk.
Speaker 2: Full calorie milk, old milk, you know it. Have you
Speaker 2: ever tried fair Life protein milk.
Speaker 1: I've tried fair Life. I'm not a huge fan of
Speaker 1: the branding. It's a little bit too flat millennial design
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Well it's like made for like Jim bros.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I guess now that I'm like really leaning
Speaker 1: into my gim era, I should write check it out protein.
Speaker 1: I just had Booth Brothers milk, which is i Vermont
Speaker 1: brand Brothers.
Speaker 2: That's very like assassination. I do want to get the
Speaker 2: legend of the Booth Brothers dry them milk.
Speaker 1: It is the creamiest, richest, butteriest milk you can imagine.
Speaker 1: I'm selenic almost.
Speaker 2: Okay, It's like the milk nicle Kinman wishes she was
Speaker 2: sipping and baby.
Speaker 1: Girl, Oh yeah, no, I mean it'll make you, baby girl,
Speaker 1: you'll down a full glass of it.
Speaker 2: Was it almost cream like? Were you having like a
Speaker 2: big milk mustache?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Am Oh yeah, it's crazy when you have like real
Speaker 2: ass cow milk compared to like garlic farms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go, relic just doesn't same anymore as an adult
Speaker 1: with a refined palate. I crepe deep duckadant dark milk
Speaker 1: like chocolate milk both brothers is the dark meat of milks?
Speaker 2: Me wrong if you know you know both brothers milk
Speaker 2: is dark meat. Before we get into a book now
Speaker 2: that we're on the subject of poultry, because you know,
Speaker 2: I feel like in our VIP lounge, I was like,
Speaker 2: you were like, okay, season maxinge is in. I was like,
Speaker 2: little birds are in eating little fowl.
Speaker 1: Yes, small fowl.
Speaker 2: Guess what I ate this weekend game?
Speaker 1: Hand quail oh demhing.
Speaker 2: Felt more decadent and like I felt like a little
Speaker 2: tiny prince suckling on the tiniest the tiniest bone, little bone, like,
Speaker 2: m you kid, just for me?
Speaker 1: Where was the quail?
Speaker 2: I went to Shay Josephine, which is a restaurant in
Speaker 2: the Theater District dedicated to Josephine Baker. Oh, it's so
Speaker 2: freaking fab.
Speaker 1: Beautiful and there's like old photos of her.
Speaker 2: No, it's a huge, massive old paintings of Justine Baker everywhere.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like owned by one of that she
Speaker 2: was very Angelina Jolie, one of the men she like adopted,
Speaker 2: so it's an honorary son.
Speaker 1: I see. You mean it's not like she adopted an adult.
Speaker 1: But now, I mean I feel like she.
Speaker 2: Probably did adopt him at like sixteen or.
Speaker 1: Something like that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's this like there's these huge paintings everywhere
Speaker 2: and curtains and like a piano player and Kurt him curtons,
Speaker 2: and yes, there are some photos, but yeah, I have
Speaker 2: the quail and it was suck on my tuckle. It
Speaker 2: was juicy because that was where's gonna be dry?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I And I was like shut with quail
Speaker 1: also because it's easy to over roast a quail. It's
Speaker 1: such a right and you think of that crispy, crispy
Speaker 1: skin on the quail, and then you're getting to the bone.
Speaker 1: You're getting the bone so quickly and you're just like okay.
Speaker 2: It was like, yeah, it was like scared quail.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure she had a wonderful life.
Speaker 2: I think she had a beautiful life and then she
Speaker 2: was like flash frozen and sent to shade Josephine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 2: And these gay guys next to me at dinner were
Speaker 2: like can I as he you a question to one
Speaker 2: of his dinner mates and he goes, Yeah, nine and
Speaker 2: a half inches uncut.
Speaker 1: Stop. Okay, guys, And they were.
Speaker 2: Like sixty and I was like, this will be future me,
Speaker 2: like hanging out with these gays, like hearing the joke
Speaker 2: like for the hundredth times that year.
Speaker 1: Okay, oh god, well speaking of okay, guys, kind of
Speaker 1: kind of not really, Yeah, although I do have some ideas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some elements that felt a little queer to me.
Speaker 2: Oh, he day for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just in terms of the chaos.
Speaker 2: Yes, let's say the name. Let's get into it. Okay,
Speaker 2: you guys, you have heard of You've definitely heard of him.
Speaker 2: He's a little more famous than Jeremy Meeks.
Speaker 1: You know him from some of his paintings, which have
Speaker 1: fetched some of the highest prices at auction in art history.
Speaker 2: You know him from being the twisted sister that chopped his.
Speaker 1: Day on ear off in solidarity with our hearing impaired folks. Yes,
Speaker 1: imagine if that's why he did that.
Speaker 2: No, was like insolidarity with my hearing impaired.
Speaker 1: You know him from.
Speaker 2: Some of his like immersive exhibits, the people always standing
Speaker 2: in line for or No.
Speaker 1: You know him from the giant screensavers that his estate
Speaker 1: is catching in on that you can find in cities
Speaker 1: such as Chicago, New York City. We'll be coming soon. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm pleased. Buy tickets at the Lincoln our bio.
Speaker 2: Or the Lincoln. This little the podcast description.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come to the Immersive CBC show.
Speaker 2: In Chicago twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Were we talking about? Of course we're.
Speaker 2: Talking about another painter, but kind of I always thought
Speaker 2: of him his French Dame Vincent van van Go Go,
Speaker 2: Vincent van Go, Vinny the oil painter. N then go.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to say like van Goug because it's like
Speaker 1: he's Dutch. I feel like sometimes when you hear people
Speaker 1: like whatever her story's talking about, and they're just like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah van Goug and an answer him, they're kind
Speaker 1: of like seeing Van Gug in this way. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, this came up as I was reading it. My
Speaker 2: lover to me says van Go and I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? She was like, I think
Speaker 2: that's how Steven's gonna say it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can really gutturalize. But here at CBC
Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and say Van Go because we're American. Sorry,
Speaker 1: we're American literally the normal way to say yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2: You hear enough of us doing accents. And by the way,
Speaker 2: what are we reading but his letters? And not just
Speaker 2: Dear THEO, because that's an abridged there's many versions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a shorter version that's just Dear THEO. That's a
Speaker 2: bridge letters to his brother. This is more letters though,
Speaker 2: this is this is mostly still to his a.
Speaker 1: Lot of dear theos. This is the letters of Vincevanga.
Speaker 1: We both are rocking in the Penguin classics vers.
Speaker 2: Shout out Penguin and shout out to I've never heard
Speaker 2: of this hoe. But her name. She is the wife
Speaker 2: of his brother.
Speaker 1: Theo, Johanna von Bonger. Her name is literally a Bonger.
Speaker 2: Bunger, Johanna von Bunger. And I like my milk chocolate stirred,
Speaker 2: non shaped.
Speaker 1: And she was Theo's wife, and she kind of made
Speaker 1: it her mission to burnish the legacy of her late
Speaker 1: husband's brother, Vincent. And she was a real advocate for
Speaker 1: publishing this correspondence, and largely due to her efforts, that's.
Speaker 2: Why we think of him as one of the greatest pictures.
Speaker 1: Of Yes, mister Celebritaci why you know him as people
Speaker 1: thrown out one hundred two hundred million dollars for his paintings,
Speaker 1: I mean insane crisis. Not that they're not gorgeous paintings.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, of course it's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: When you were just a young lad, you went to
Speaker 2: the MFA and you've got a first heart of the
Speaker 2: addis you know, van.
Speaker 1: Go Vango Picasso, Picasso, van Go money.
Speaker 2: Money, What were your feelings one of those early feelings
Speaker 2: about tho artists, you.
Speaker 1: Know, as eighteen, I remember being drawn to the Impressionists.
Speaker 1: I love the color, the explosion of color, and I
Speaker 1: saw myself as a little bit different, right, And so
Speaker 1: I was drawn to their differentiation. And I said they
Speaker 1: saw the world a bit differently, and I feel something
Speaker 1: in myself that feels a little bit outside society looking in.
Speaker 2: As a romantic view. Maybe yes, oh this is not
Speaker 2: what a room actually looks.
Speaker 1: Like, right, And so you know, specifically those French Impressionists. Again,
Speaker 1: I always associated in Savanga with France, and he lived
Speaker 1: in France for a very long time, painted a lot
Speaker 1: in France. So it's not crazy to think. And then
Speaker 1: we think of the Impressionists as like mostly being French
Speaker 1: Go Gone.
Speaker 2: He was actually.
Speaker 1: Sison and and.
Speaker 2: We found out he was so inspired by the Dutch
Speaker 2: re brand.
Speaker 1: Yeah wait, there's that line when he's writing that letter
Speaker 1: to some other artists and he's like, have you heard
Speaker 1: of from mir? I don't know if you know this guy.
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of like almost condescending, a bitchy and
Speaker 1: I think he's a little bit just of an artist
Speaker 1: and that's why he says it like that. But I
Speaker 1: was a little bit like, okay, maybe like dial down
Speaker 1: the it.
Speaker 2: No, this whole book is him being a huge cunt,
Speaker 2: but also just like so romantic and then vulnerable, but
Speaker 2: also him just being so like, yeah, maybe you could
Speaker 2: send me fifty francs and actually read my fucking letters.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, this is why I'm saying that there's
Speaker 1: this queerness to him, because so basically he never sold
Speaker 1: a painting in his life until at the very end
Speaker 1: of his life he like sells one painting, And this
Speaker 1: is weird thing, but he's insanely prolific. He's painting around
Speaker 1: the clock.
Speaker 2: Constantly drawing. Well, before we get into it, I just
Speaker 2: want to remark on one thing of my impression of
Speaker 2: him as a child, which is it's so interesting because
Speaker 2: I think we both probably felt out of the box
Speaker 2: of life. Yes, and you saw Impressionism as a kind
Speaker 2: of like, oh, I'm like that, whereas I guess I
Speaker 2: always viewed impressionism. I equaled it with classical music and
Speaker 2: I're like, bo b, this is for fucking squares, my dudes.
Speaker 1: So you lumped impressionism and with like baroque painting with it,
Speaker 1: just like all painting from the past.
Speaker 2: You were just like boring, I feel like baroque paintings.
Speaker 2: I was a little bit more like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: the crazy past and like we're being fab and royal. Yeah, Impressionism.
Speaker 2: I more was like comparing it to like Cubism and
Speaker 2: like early like moder like Warhole and modern.
Speaker 1: Arts, which is totally fair, and I think that's fine.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, I'm actually a little born
Speaker 2: to Andy Warhol. Yeah, Casso, yeah, Jackson Pulla I color
Speaker 2: but like primary and like crazier where impression and felt
Speaker 2: too pretty.
Speaker 1: I guess for me, I one hundred percent agree, And
Speaker 1: I think I like adopted that view as I moved
Speaker 1: into adulthood and I began to see impressionism as more
Speaker 1: boring and pretty and to like concerned with being pretty
Speaker 1: and too concerned with just like just moving the needle
Speaker 1: enough so that people being it was like, oh, so
Speaker 1: you're still just painting a landscape and you're doing something
Speaker 1: completely ineffensive, but like people are just a little bit
Speaker 1: freaked out because your brushwork is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm I'm so sketchy, But honestly, reading this now,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of seeing your original impression. M Yeah, where
Speaker 2: I'm just like he was so like pained by like
Speaker 2: watching a peasant put potatoes in a sack, and like
Speaker 2: there is more like well.
Speaker 1: And there's also sense that you know, we've talked a
Speaker 1: lot about this when we cover artists and content creators Bengo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know this difference between people who are super
Speaker 1: like hyper self aware and a little bit more pretentious
Speaker 1: and calculated about the art they make and the people
Speaker 1: who are just producing because it's like this emotional process
Speaker 1: that just pours out of them. And I do think
Speaker 1: he's the latter. I think like, A, he's so prolific,
Speaker 1: he's making like hundreds and hundreds of paintings. B It's
Speaker 1: like the way he talks about the paintings. It's so emotional.
Speaker 1: He's like I was trying to capture like this peasant
Speaker 1: with the sickle in the field and how hot it
Speaker 1: was for them to be working that day, and like
Speaker 1: how they must have been like baking in the sun.
Speaker 1: But they're also so proud of their work and like
Speaker 1: the potato eaters his like, which doesn't really look like him.
Speaker 1: That one of his first Yeah, and a lot.
Speaker 2: Of the stuff early stuff doesn't look like him because
Speaker 2: we think of him as so like Starry.
Speaker 1: Nights, Storry Knight and just like the Lions, and it's
Speaker 1: like very just like classically Impressionist, but like he was
Speaker 1: so into that painting because he was just like he
Speaker 1: was into his own painting because he was like I'm
Speaker 1: showing these peasants and they're eating the food that they.
Speaker 2: Made, like can you believe it?
Speaker 1: Like I mean it's also him doing this like poverty
Speaker 1: cosplay where it's like he grew up like kind of
Speaker 1: a perminal son of a vicar.
Speaker 2: He's some of like a reverend vicar and like they're
Speaker 2: very like conservative you know, church folk, and he is
Speaker 2: quite religious himself, but kind of in this more like
Speaker 2: rebellious almost Pilgrim like way, I will say, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the dad is a Protestant and so they're
Speaker 1: being so like Protestantia and he's like wait. At one
Speaker 1: point he like calls like like renoir like a heathen
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Like renwall even well, and when you talk about the
Speaker 2: stuff he puts out, Okay, I mean that makes sense
Speaker 2: because he's being so like, oh, they're like drawing so
Speaker 2: much pussy.
Speaker 1: Okay, but can I just back to your first impression
Speaker 1: of art? Yeah, and like I know we're being like
Speaker 1: but I'm like, see, I now think I'm more what
Speaker 1: you thought originally.
Speaker 2: Where it's like we're switching.
Speaker 1: I appreciate some of the impressions work. I do think
Speaker 1: Monet is like basically just like pretty, but yeah, money is.
Speaker 2: Straight up postcards. And I think van Go at least
Speaker 2: was like I think, doing new things with perspective and
Speaker 2: like color and brush work.
Speaker 1: The bedroom I think is really cool.
Speaker 2: I think the Bedroom's a dope painting and I think
Speaker 2: you can much more see in van Go's work that
Speaker 2: he is mad, mad mad.
Speaker 1: But I also think that old like baroque stuff is
Speaker 1: like way cooler, and I'm like, cool, this is insane
Speaker 1: and the past was mad and everyone was like murdering
Speaker 1: each other and it's so sexy.
Speaker 2: I just saw this crazy ass painting this weekend about
Speaker 2: like the fall of the Roman Empire, and it was
Speaker 2: like all these like nude women on a cliff being
Speaker 2: pushed off, and I was like I could look at
Speaker 2: that for hours. Yeah, when you're walking through the Boston
Speaker 2: MFA and you see an impression.
Speaker 1: Of them, You're like, let me grab a pillow.
Speaker 2: I've been to is it in France Money's Garden?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that in France?
Speaker 2: It's past Branson. Actually, I've been to Money's Garden. Going there,
Speaker 2: of course, was utterly.
Speaker 1: You may remember it from season four of Emily in
Speaker 1: Paris when she gets in a fight with Camie and
Speaker 1: they both get wrenched in water.
Speaker 2: Emily if she's like more money or van go to me,
Speaker 2: she's so like making a van go McDonald's collab cup. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like genius McDonald's take that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the starry night, like h super size.
Speaker 2: And so it's like and if you see a lot
Speaker 2: of like if this book has some of these like
Speaker 2: cool like early drawings, and it is much more of
Speaker 2: like you feel like you are watching in kind of
Speaker 2: a freak watch town life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he was a lonely ass bitch and he
Speaker 1: couldn't make friends.
Speaker 2: And his letters to THEO are throughout this entire book,
Speaker 2: just this like desperation of like kinship and brotherhood. Yet
Speaker 2: they are also THEO worked for like a gallery and
Speaker 2: he funded Van Goo's entire life. Yeah, so Van Go
Speaker 2: is always being like, could we make a schedule so
Speaker 2: the money you're gonna send me?
Speaker 1: So here's it. Just an example. This is a letter
Speaker 1: from September third, eighteen eighty two. I value your loyal
Speaker 1: and effective help more than I can say. I think
Speaker 1: give you so much. I should so like my work
Speaker 1: to become vigorous, serious, virile, so that you too may
Speaker 1: get some pleasure from it as soon as possible. Like
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I know, I'm so like shitty, Like
Speaker 1: I really hope that you love it. One thing I
Speaker 1: should like to bring to your attention as a matter
Speaker 1: of importance, wouldn't it be possible to obtain paint panels, brushes,
Speaker 1: et cetera at discount prices. I'm having the retail price
Speaker 1: at the moment. Have you any connection with Payard or
Speaker 1: someone like that. If so, I think it would be
Speaker 1: much more economical at paint, say wholesale for instance, White, Okra, Siena,
Speaker 1: and we could then come to some arrangement about the money.
Speaker 1: Everything would be cheaper. It goes without saying do think
Speaker 1: it over?
Speaker 2: And by the way, that slayed me because I was like,
Speaker 2: this is after letter after a letter of him being
Speaker 2: like I received your twenty five francs, like thank you
Speaker 2: so much. I bought charcoal, Like how is mother?
Speaker 1: I hate her?
Speaker 2: And then this is like okay, well, let's actually talking
Speaker 2: about a wholes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like sisk, can we get a discount code. It's
Speaker 1: very like what I said that the UCBC at checkout,
Speaker 1: I got the white and the Okra.
Speaker 2: It's like yeah, so it would just be like oils brushes.
Speaker 2: It's very like us about trying to buy like natural
Speaker 2: wine wholesale just be like.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, wait, I love your bar.
Speaker 2: I actually didn't say an idea. Yeah, it would probably
Speaker 2: be cheaper for all of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I could, let's just remove the middle man
Speaker 1: of you making money and just when you get those
Speaker 1: twenty bottles for like costs for like fourteen because so
Speaker 1: like no, and then like Payard is going to get
Speaker 1: like promo basically yeah, he's like, no, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: the paintings.
Speaker 2: Well, and this goes when he changes, of course, it
Speaker 2: gets much more expensive. So he's drawing for I would say,
Speaker 2: the first half of this book, and then he moves
Speaker 2: to oil, which is a lot.
Speaker 1: More expensive, and drawings are impressive. I mean, I do
Speaker 1: have to say, and this is what I think is
Speaker 1: kind of like so classic like whatever, it's straight kai
Speaker 1: but it's also just like Ridge and and queer where
Speaker 1: it's like his fascination with the working class. It is
Speaker 1: a little fetishistic.
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, and I wonder it's like, is that our
Speaker 2: generation and of being like third fourth generation, is it
Speaker 2: queer or is it because it's like right, it's rigid
Speaker 2: indie guy being like.
Speaker 1: I think it's just like classically bourgeois to be like
Speaker 1: look at someone on a loom and be like, marvelly,
Speaker 1: not their work.
Speaker 2: Well, and it's even more I would say of the time,
Speaker 2: since like we're the first generation to like make less
Speaker 2: than our parents, so in a way, like we're reverting
Speaker 2: back to the working class.
Speaker 1: Right, and now our parents will be making paintings of
Speaker 1: us podcasting, but it's.
Speaker 2: Like we're still like a lot of us have like
Speaker 2: grown up with a lot of priv so we're like,
Speaker 2: I'm actually a part of your community. So if I
Speaker 2: like paint you being like a factory worker, we're kind
Speaker 2: of one of the same because I'm a barista.
Speaker 1: Right, totally. No, I mean when I paint a tomaly lady, Yes,
Speaker 1: the same boat.
Speaker 2: I just feel like he is of that mindset. He's like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm a poor artist and I'm rejecting my parents.
Speaker 1: Because he actually says many times that he says he's
Speaker 1: like the artist is more similar to the smith or
Speaker 1: to the doctor than to someone who lives a life
Speaker 1: of leisure. And he's saying that he thinks like art
Speaker 1: should be a job and it is like a technically
Speaker 1: demanding job that you just have to work at. And
Speaker 1: I feel like the way that he was painting, that's
Speaker 1: kind of true, like he was working a lot. However,
Speaker 1: by and large, I would not say that the artist
Speaker 1: is the same as a doctor.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, but like, how many books of doctors have
Speaker 2: we read?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we haven't read a tool.
Speaker 2: We haven't read doctor oz No, So well depends on
Speaker 2: the doctor.
Speaker 1: Well, would not just imply that, yeah, they're not the same.
Speaker 2: No, they're definitely not the same, because my point is
Speaker 2: that artists work are sometimes maybe more important than the
Speaker 2: medical field. Oh yes, and the conversation rather than the
Speaker 2: general practitioner that says gurgle salt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on my r Okay, yes, but like society
Speaker 1: needs the general practitionersough Also honestly, throughout all of his
Speaker 1: doctors literally did nothing and were actually bad until look
Speaker 1: so recently Andy was like dying and they were just
Speaker 1: like blood lp mark. Okay, but I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: like creative labor is not essential.
Speaker 2: In obviously, like is being like a conceptual artist like needed,
Speaker 2: we need to like pay them by the state. That's
Speaker 2: up for debate.
Speaker 1: Even in his estimation of the craft of art making
Speaker 1: and specifically like painting, like he's doing like as being
Speaker 1: something that just like is a technical skill that requires
Speaker 1: a lot of dedication and requires like hours per day
Speaker 1: and should be thought of as like a worker in
Speaker 1: the same way. I'm also like it is self expression
Speaker 1: in a way that other things are not. The doctor
Speaker 1: is not expressing himself no in surgery, and if he is,
Speaker 1: that's a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's like, oh damn, like I sewed this
Speaker 2: up in an amazing way. Though, I feel like the
Speaker 2: surgeon who did my top surgery like did think he
Speaker 2: was an artist, and that goes to surgeon's narcissism, which
Speaker 2: is a whole other episode. Yeah, because he was still
Speaker 2: the trump and being like, what an amazing job I did. Wonderful,
Speaker 2: wonderful look at a beautiful chest. Yeah, like this he
Speaker 2: was being like he.
Speaker 1: Was of chest. Yeah, look at my binder.
Speaker 2: Here's a passage where this tends to, which is his
Speaker 2: observations of the working class and drawing, which I thought
Speaker 2: was just a beautiful sentence. Once again, hard at work
Speaker 2: at drawing. I sometimes think there's nothing nicer than drawing.
Speaker 2: I do think drawing it's the first thing we learned
Speaker 2: to do in the arts as children, and I feel
Speaker 2: like it's so meditative and like I am nostalgic for
Speaker 2: like drawing as a child.
Speaker 1: It's immediate connection to inner child. You know. It so funny.
Speaker 2: I was to sit down, put down your goddamn phone,
Speaker 2: and like, just like let it go.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this weekend I was skiing, and
Speaker 1: for me, I learned just he as a child, and
Speaker 1: so there's a nostalgia there, but you have to be
Speaker 1: so present, especially when you're skiing moguls, because there's so
Speaker 1: many things going on.
Speaker 2: I've never done a mogal. You've always been scared.
Speaker 1: Like you cannot be scrolling.
Speaker 2: While yeah mogul, put the phone down.
Speaker 1: It is like the most wildly present activity, like you
Speaker 1: can only think about your next move.
Speaker 2: I for get worried when I see people post on
Speaker 2: the mountains and.
Speaker 1: You see me post on the mountains. Yes, well I'm
Speaker 1: not like video and as I'm on the mocal no
Speaker 1: but downhill.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it makes me nervous.
Speaker 1: The thing is, though, it's that level of presence that
Speaker 1: I do feel like drawing takes you back to, like
Speaker 1: you say, meditative, which I think is true, right.
Speaker 2: But no, it's also focus.
Speaker 1: It's a separation from all distractions. And I'm sure maybe
Speaker 1: because children are incredibly in touch with themselves.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But they don't have all the social anxieties, like the responsibilities.
Speaker 2: And even the is this good will this?
Speaker 1: Because that, like drawing, takes you back to that childlike
Speaker 1: master of your domain.
Speaker 2: Con just like I like this color, I want to
Speaker 2: draw this dog and yeah, and now dog is killing
Speaker 2: yes and dark drawings. Obviously paint can be that way too,
Speaker 2: but I think just drawings comes usually before painting, and
Speaker 2: then he goes on and this is where he is
Speaker 2: being like in the way we always talk about like
Speaker 2: American photography of like the American like pastoral, like mall
Speaker 2: closing down, and it's a drawing of like three old women.
Speaker 2: This is part of that Pew's piece. There are other
Speaker 2: heads of men in the background. Things like this are difficult, however,
Speaker 2: and don't always work straight away. When they do work,
Speaker 2: it's sometimes the end result of a whole series of failures.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the orphan men, I was interrupted while writing
Speaker 2: these lines by the arrival of my model, and I
Speaker 2: worked with him until dark. He was wearing a large,
Speaker 2: old overcoat, which lends him a curiously broad figure. I
Speaker 2: think you may perhaps like this collection of orphan men
Speaker 2: and their Sunday best and they're working clothes. Then I
Speaker 2: got him sitting with the short pipe as well. He
Speaker 2: has a nice bald head, large ears, and white side whiskers.
Speaker 2: He's literally being like, sorry, why is this homeless man
Speaker 2: in a huge overcoat? Like the inspiration for Armani's next line.
Speaker 1: Like it's so dear leak.
Speaker 2: It's really dear ah leak, Like, oh my god, Orphan
Speaker 2: style the nineteen twenties was so amazing.
Speaker 1: His use of pain is a little it's like you say,
Speaker 1: like versus trying. It's like you have to use a lot,
Speaker 1: and he constantly talking about impasting, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: think it just means like using a shit ton of
Speaker 1: paint and it's like it starts to just get like
Speaker 1: thick and dry. Yeah, and so you really have to
Speaker 1: like commit. And then you're like, okay, like what color
Speaker 1: am I making this? And then when he is being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm making the tree a dark Prussian blue, that is
Speaker 1: kind of like a crazy choice as opposed to making
Speaker 1: the tree like brown, right, and people are being like whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2: Like you're not just doing real stuff, which I guess
Speaker 2: is again like what he was like being I'm a freak,
Speaker 2: like I'm making a tree blue. Can you believe it? Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is in a way also kind of like the
Speaker 2: first like psychedelic.
Speaker 1: Because he says this thing at some point where he's like,
Speaker 1: in a way, I'm glad that I never learned painting Hey,
Speaker 1: I know he underlines learned in all probability, I would
Speaker 1: have then had to learn to ignore such effects as this.
Speaker 1: Now I can say to myself, this is just what
Speaker 1: I want. If it is impossible, it's impossible, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try it, even though I don't know how it
Speaker 1: ought to be done. I don't know myself at a pain do.
Speaker 1: I just sit down with the whiteboard in front of
Speaker 1: the spot that appeals to me. I look at what's
Speaker 1: in front of my eyes, and I say to myself,
Speaker 1: that whiteboard has got to turn into something. This has
Speaker 1: actually just been so like Monday motivation, just like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's being literally like messy bun put on some
Speaker 2: gangster rat. Get it get just like when I see
Speaker 2: a blank calendar, that's actually an inspiration for me. And
Speaker 2: that's why I take out my try colored stickies.
Speaker 1: Because he's kind of saying like, yeah, I guess I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm in insane savant, like I never learned how to paint.
Speaker 1: It's just like shit, I'm just fucking weird because like
Speaker 1: they never told me what not to do. Fuck the teachers.
Speaker 2: No, He's like, fuck the teachers. Throughout this entire book.
Speaker 2: He's really not talking to his parents because his brother
Speaker 2: gets like an actual job. It's kind of classic where
Speaker 2: it's like you respect the brother at a job because
Speaker 2: it's like at a gallery and he's getting paid, but
Speaker 2: the parents are like, don't become an artist?
Speaker 1: Can I ask?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: Like Vincent's making like dope work. The brother literally works
Speaker 1: at a gallery, and yet why isn't it being shown
Speaker 1: a Why is it being shot at literally that gallery?
Speaker 1: B I'm sure he knows a gazillion other galleries in
Speaker 1: Paris and Amsterdam and London. Why isn't he like, oh,
Speaker 1: let me like send this Gallerius to your fucking studio
Speaker 1: and like why why is it taking jo? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like no wonder Sometimes you're like damn, Vinny, like you're
Speaker 2: actually being so mean to your brother who's straight up
Speaker 2: supporting you. But then I'm also just like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: would be mad. Yeah, you're just kind of being like,
Speaker 2: here's twenty five francs so you can like paint your
Speaker 2: little chairs.
Speaker 1: And like I feels like probably going on studio visits,
Speaker 1: like with fucking Saison, just being like mmm love this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna show this at the.
Speaker 2: Salon, And I feel like, Okay, if we can purchase
Speaker 2: like entourage, Like.
Speaker 1: I feel like, of course we can.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like it's like THEO is like one
Speaker 2: of Ari's assistants and is so like getting up the
Speaker 2: courage all year to like present his boss with like
Speaker 2: one of his brother's drawings. And I was like, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: like do you want to take a look at this?
Speaker 2: And I just thinks it's awkward, yeah, and he's like, oh.
Speaker 1: I mean I get it obviously. Sometimes, like we've all
Speaker 1: been in a situation where somebody kind of asks you
Speaker 1: for something and they're like, hey, do you know this person?
Speaker 1: Like I feel like people ask me that a lot
Speaker 1: about like oh, like I want to like get pressed
Speaker 1: or something, and they're like do you know this writer?
Speaker 1: Like would you want to put me in touch with
Speaker 1: somebody like this here or there? And I'm sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: like sure, but sometimes I'm like.
Speaker 2: No, Well, sometimes you don't want to give all your
Speaker 2: cards exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend my political capital on this
Speaker 1: person who frankly, maybe I just don't think that their
Speaker 1: art is that worthy. And so I do feel like
Speaker 1: maybe THEO thought that a little bit about Vincent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a total believer in the work.
Speaker 2: Because he's always sending THEO there were paintings. But then
Speaker 2: I thought it was cool that Van go even though
Speaker 2: he had like such utter confidence to keep on going
Speaker 2: and like keep on going into insane asylums and practicing
Speaker 2: and many times he's like, oh, I know, my drawing's
Speaker 2: not there. Like he's like, I'm not. He's a very
Speaker 2: like believer in like you actually have to like paint
Speaker 2: and draw every d the process and like do it
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 1: I mean that's very not gay of him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, he's like so crazy straight guy.
Speaker 1: I think he is crazy straight guy.
Speaker 2: I as someone who went to the School of the
Speaker 2: Art Institute of Chicago.
Speaker 1: Where will be on February twenty seven that Sleeping Village.
Speaker 1: Get your tickets now with the link in our bio.
Speaker 2: That's right. Anyway, I went to school with a lot
Speaker 2: of male painters and they were like tortured, and I
Speaker 2: was always a little bit like.
Speaker 1: Why, what's the matter, And it was like color canvas,
Speaker 1: paint and they're always stretching. I mean some of those
Speaker 1: guys are legitimately alcoholics, which is a disease. Yes, although
Speaker 1: Van Goh actually literally got epilepsy from drinking too much absinthe,
Speaker 1: which is insane. No, he's.
Speaker 2: Doing turpentine like he's being very Jerry Springer. A show
Speaker 2: I worked on in the City of Chicago would be
Speaker 2: The twenty seventh when it was like alcoholics would be
Speaker 2: on and it would be like, oh, this person's drinking
Speaker 2: like straight up mouth washed to get wasted.
Speaker 1: He was more in that category.
Speaker 2: Moving on to love for just a moment. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: speaking of heterosexuality. Yeah, so this is also very like
Speaker 2: straight painter. He fell in love with this woman, Key Voss,
Speaker 2: who was his cousin. Yeah, straight up his cousin.
Speaker 1: So it had so straight painter. Okay, what's weirdness? The
Speaker 1: parents were so like disapproving of this, but it was
Speaker 1: like the nineteenth century and it was like, actually so
Speaker 1: normal to be marrying your cousins. But I thought it
Speaker 1: was because like her parents were just priven because they
Speaker 1: were like, you're poor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thought he was a poor and sketchy. So he's
Speaker 2: writing to THEO and he's like, I need to tell
Speaker 2: you something, which is kind of gay, and so he's like,
Speaker 2: I wanted to let you know that I feel so
Speaker 2: much desired.
Speaker 1: Gossip is gay with key Voss.
Speaker 2: The summer, and then I can find no other words
Speaker 2: for it. It is just as if key Voss were
Speaker 2: the closest person to me and I the closest person
Speaker 2: to kie Voss, And those are the words I spoke
Speaker 2: to her. But when I told her this, she replied
Speaker 2: that her past and her future remained as one to her,
Speaker 2: so that she could never return my feelings.
Speaker 1: She was literally like no, says I'm good.
Speaker 2: She was not now, so not never.
Speaker 1: He does not take this rejection. Well, then this is insane.
Speaker 1: So he goes to Amsterdam to try and see her
Speaker 1: where she is like from So this is a later letter.
Speaker 1: Now this is like, I don't know. A couple months later,
Speaker 1: another letter to THEO. I'm like, THEO just must be
Speaker 1: spending all day reading these fucking waters the substack and.
Speaker 2: Never ends well because later on he's like, the letters
Speaker 2: fall off when he gets married. But we'll get into that.
Speaker 1: Forgive me if I repeat myself. But I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've already written to you exactly what happened to
Speaker 1: me in Amsterdam.
Speaker 2: It's very like you texted me that yesterday.
Speaker 1: He was like, okay, so here's what went down. On Amsterdam.
Speaker 1: I went there thinking perhaps the no never ever will thaw,
Speaker 1: the weather is so mild, just being like, maybe she's
Speaker 1: gonna come around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like maybe it's just about like persistence and
Speaker 2: like girls are into that to like kind true to
Speaker 2: a point.
Speaker 1: And so one five in evening, I trudged along the
Speaker 1: Kaiserkrocks looking for the house, and indeed I found it.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit like he's never been to her parents'.
Speaker 2: House before, and it's like and he's the show up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also like a little bit like borderline stalker.
Speaker 1: And naturally I rang the doorbell and was told that
Speaker 1: the family were still at dinner. But then I was
Speaker 1: told to come in all the same and all of
Speaker 1: them were there, including Jan and that very learned professor,
Speaker 1: except for Key. And there was a plate in front
Speaker 1: of each person, but no extra plate. This small detail
Speaker 1: struck me. They had wanted to make me think that
Speaker 1: he wasn't there and had taken away her plate, but
Speaker 1: I knew that she was there, and I thought it
Speaker 1: all a bit of a farce or charade. And I'm like, oh, okay, proenoid.
Speaker 2: Down staring at these plates, being like, oh, she was there,
Speaker 2: but then she was like, take away my plate.
Speaker 1: I'm going upstairs, So like she left the table and
Speaker 1: then they like put the plate in the kitchen, so
Speaker 1: he wouldn't think that like room, So if there had
Speaker 1: been an extra plate in a person, you would have
Speaker 1: been like, she's there. But then the no plate, you're
Speaker 1: also like, oh, they just took away the plate. It's
Speaker 1: like you're being crazy.
Speaker 2: He's being completely insane.
Speaker 1: And like even if she was hiding in her bedroom,
Speaker 1: that just means she doesn't want to see you and
Speaker 1: you're being cuckoo.
Speaker 2: Well she's not being like oh my god, you showed up.
Speaker 2: Like it's not holiday movie where it's like like a
Speaker 2: just no point. Does it even sound like there was
Speaker 2: even a flirtation. Yeah, And he's telling THEO and he's being.
Speaker 1: Like, no, but I'm obsessed with he's and.
Speaker 2: He's been like I don't regret any of it. And
Speaker 2: he's like, I like wish for you to have this
Speaker 2: sort of love.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is.
Speaker 2: Like also so sad. He's like I wish you to
Speaker 2: have this obsessive love.
Speaker 1: That to me was a little bit him trying to
Speaker 1: be like hey, like what's going on with you true, yeah,
Speaker 1: a little bit like him being you get yeah, like
Speaker 1: so like have you ever like had like penetrative sucks before,
Speaker 1: like kind of hoping that he will be a little
Speaker 1: bit revealing.
Speaker 2: I think he's you know, because sometimes you're like, I don't.
Speaker 1: Think he was dating anybody at that point, even though because.
Speaker 2: THEO doesn't get with Johannah.
Speaker 1: Miss Bonger, if you mask me, yeah.
Speaker 2: Till much later. And so I think that is his
Speaker 2: way because maybe that would be like two forward for
Speaker 2: a man of that time to be like are you
Speaker 2: with the lady?
Speaker 1: Yes, like bring me news, But then what suple bosoms?
Speaker 2: You may have rested upon all these letters like it's
Speaker 2: blah blah blah my charcoal blah blah blah by me
Speaker 2: paintings wholesale, and he rarely like is like what's up?
Speaker 1: Well, but that's that thing of like classic narcissist who
Speaker 1: knows when to inject one little thing to be like
Speaker 1: oh and like wait chica, like how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Okay anyway? Wait okay. The most insane, egregious example of
Speaker 1: that it's at the end. So when THEO has a
Speaker 1: son and names it after Vincent, names it like VILLEM
Speaker 1: or whatever, which is I guess like a derivation of Vincent.
Speaker 1: But it's right after Vango has basically gotten his first press,
Speaker 1: there's this one article that's written about him, and so
Speaker 1: THEO sent him an article that's in this French magazine
Speaker 1: and it's like about Vincent.
Speaker 2: And imagine what birth was?
Speaker 1: I mean to finally, at like thirty six, to just
Speaker 1: like finally have a blog post about you, like when
Speaker 1: paper magazine is just like you check out this artist
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, the way like.
Speaker 2: Thirty at that time was might as well been sixty.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, And like this paper mag article launches and
Speaker 1: he's like, so gassed up the who But then also
Speaker 1: Theodos had a baby. So he writes THEO, going, my
Speaker 1: dear Theory, I just receive your good news that you're
Speaker 1: a father at last, that Joe is over the most
Speaker 1: critical period, and finally that little boy is doing well.
Speaker 1: This has done more good and giving me more pleasure
Speaker 1: that I can put into words, bra Vo, and how
Speaker 1: pleased mother will be. So what I have been longing
Speaker 1: for so much in so long time has happened at last.
Speaker 1: No need to tell you that my thoughts have often
Speaker 1: turned to you over so late, how brave and calm
Speaker 1: she was the movin or peril. It touched me very much. Well,
Speaker 1: it all helps a great deal and making me forget
Speaker 1: these last days when I was ill. At such times,
Speaker 1: I no longer knew where I am, and my mind wanders.
Speaker 1: Next paragraph, I was extremely surprised by the article on
Speaker 1: my paintings you sent me. No need to tell you that.
Speaker 1: I hope to keep thinking that. I don't paint like that,
Speaker 1: but I do gather from it. Now I ought to
Speaker 1: be painting from the article is absolutely right in the way,
Speaker 1: and then it's literally nine more paragraphs about the article.
Speaker 2: He was like, wait, do you remember that part in
Speaker 2: the article when it says this, He's like, by the way, congrats.
Speaker 1: No, he literally does, like a line by line breakdown,
Speaker 1: just like one paragraph.
Speaker 2: Congrats you think about some people in your life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it does make you think about certain people in
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was kind of just saying, okay, yes, no, right,
Speaker 2: I wasn't talking about you.
Speaker 1: I thought it was me.
Speaker 2: I mean, no, you would like so send an Etsy gift.
Speaker 1: No, I'm obsessed with babies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in the kind of there's like some biographical
Speaker 2: parts in this book between the letters and then also
Speaker 2: talks about how van Go like gets so mad when
Speaker 2: THEO gets married, and like, you know, his letters are
Speaker 2: a little more few and far between because it's like, well, damn,
Speaker 2: how can you keep up with this though, and all
Speaker 2: of his letters and it's like, sorry, he has to
Speaker 2: have some sort of life himself. Yet so heartbreaking. When
Speaker 2: van Go kills himself in a field, THEO gets note
Speaker 2: from the doctor. Comes Van Go dies in Theo's arms,
Speaker 2: so beautiful, and then THEO I think he was having
Speaker 2: health problems himself.
Speaker 1: He had a little something we like to call syphilis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, from Johanna or not Joe.
Speaker 1: He may not have been barling Banger when he got
Speaker 1: the sef.
Speaker 2: And that's private and that's up to Joe.
Speaker 1: He also has a long incubation period.
Speaker 2: He could have gotten that from just like deach John Furtenberg.
Speaker 1: Yeah, six two brothels were everywhere because you know, so Vincent,
Speaker 1: like six months before the gunshot, he had cut off
Speaker 1: his ear after a fight with Gogan, and then he
Speaker 1: went to a brothel and presented the ear to one
Speaker 1: of the ladies of the night at the brothel.
Speaker 2: Fucking freak. Yeah, he's so sketchy. His thing with Gogant
Speaker 2: was very also like art school romance, where they were
Speaker 2: like besties and like we're always going to Brittany or
Speaker 2: somewhere to the paints with each other. And it was
Speaker 2: still like wine and turpentine and absynthe.
Speaker 1: And hips and Quail quail and like and a brothel.
Speaker 2: But then it's also so like our guys Rail.
Speaker 1: And a brothel over coat Rail and a brothel.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, on like the ninth bottle of coate drone. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're like, I actually hate that brushstroke and he's like, bitch,
Speaker 2: give me the scissors.
Speaker 1: No, it got really awkward because like he's with Gogang
Speaker 1: and then what does he say this like very short
Speaker 1: letter he writes right at the end of like they're
Speaker 1: kind of fighting. Then Gogan leaves and he goes. I
Speaker 1: think that go Gown was a little disenchanted with the
Speaker 1: good town of Arl, the little yellow house where we work,
Speaker 1: and above all with me and short. I think that
Speaker 1: he'll either simply leave or he'll simply stay. I've told him.
Speaker 1: But they get over and wig up the pros and
Speaker 1: cons before doing anything. Gogan is very strong, very creative,
Speaker 1: but he needs peace precisely because of that. Will he
Speaker 1: find it elsewhere if he doesn't find it here? I
Speaker 1: wait his decision with absolute equanimity, with a good handshake, Vincent.
Speaker 1: And then it's like the next day he caught up.
Speaker 2: His ear and he's trying to be so like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know, last weekend was fun. Yeah, I do
Speaker 2: wish him the best. He might be a little upset
Speaker 2: with me, but onward and vin go. He at one point,
Speaker 2: I mean before the death, he does find love, but
Speaker 2: like he doesn't really love her.
Speaker 1: Wait that like pregnant woman? Yeah with CN, oh, that
Speaker 1: like old pregnant woman that he paints It was.
Speaker 2: The way matters stand with CN is that I'm generally
Speaker 2: attached to her, and she to me that she is
Speaker 2: my loyal helpmate. Imagine being all to loyal.
Speaker 1: She think seems like literally homeless. And he was like,
Speaker 1: I'll feed you if you like pose for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they like did fuck? Who goes everywhere
Speaker 2: with me? And who is becoming more indispensable to me
Speaker 2: by the day. I feel less passionate for her than
Speaker 2: I did for Key Voss left here, But the kind
Speaker 2: of love I have for Ciena is the only one
Speaker 2: I'm still capable of after the disappointment of that first passion.
Speaker 2: She and I are two unhappy people who keep each
Speaker 2: other company and share a burden. And that is precisely
Speaker 2: what And happiness is making way for happiness, and the
Speaker 2: unbearable is becoming unbearable. It's just kind of like we're
Speaker 2: both just like super depressed. And she's like sad.
Speaker 1: And old and homeless, and and I'm like completely mentally
Speaker 1: insane and like still my cousin and.
Speaker 2: Poor, I hate him, jealous my brother's wife, and like
Speaker 2: I'm still holding onto an ear and a brothel. But
Speaker 2: I guess it's like good to like order takeout.
Speaker 1: With some Yeah. And they were just kind of having
Speaker 1: this like grub up relationship.
Speaker 2: Oil painting and chill.
Speaker 1: Yeah, being like seabiscuits again, ships more ships, biscuits. Sure.
Speaker 2: The parents were even more like damn, what are you
Speaker 2: up to? YEA, Like now you're doting this home bostwoman,
Speaker 2: go to.
Speaker 1: Church, dns.
Speaker 2: What does she with?
Speaker 1: What does she eat? Okay, what does she eat? He's
Speaker 1: so spartan, He's like coffee, biscuits, water absence.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have to read this part where he's in
Speaker 2: the insane asylum and he's talking about how everyone else
Speaker 2: is like eating, and he's kind of looking down at
Speaker 2: as like, oh, you're eating to like waste time. But
Speaker 2: I took this as like everyone being gassy. He goes,
Speaker 2: the poor wretches here have absolutely nothing to do, not
Speaker 2: a book, nothing more to distract them than a game
Speaker 2: of bullet or a game of droughts, have no other
Speaker 2: daily distraction than to stuff themselves with chickpeas and roco beans,
Speaker 2: lentils and other groceries and colonial produce and sent amounts
Speaker 2: of stated hours. As the digestion of these food stuffs
Speaker 2: offers certain difficulties, they fill their days in a manner
Speaker 2: as inoffensive as it is costly.
Speaker 1: I was just like, so they're farting up a storm.
Speaker 1: I took that, or they're like shitting down the latrines.
Speaker 2: Maybe, I guess I kind of took it as like
Speaker 2: in the lentils could be like gassy, way, but it's
Speaker 2: like and pees together, It's like.
Speaker 1: It was gas and then all that colonial produce that
Speaker 1: they're not used.
Speaker 2: To colonial produce. Yeah, and I think it's like they're
Speaker 2: serving then he's having one green bead.
Speaker 1: But I guess at one point he brags, he goes,
Speaker 1: fortunately my stomach is recovered, because he was like, after
Speaker 1: one of his episodes, he was like, to such an
Speaker 1: extent that I lived for three weeks of the month
Speaker 1: on ship's biscuits with milk and eggs.
Speaker 2: Can you, I mentione, how dry those biscuits are?
Speaker 1: Yeah? He once you soak them in milk though.
Speaker 2: Sound tasty? Yeah, You're like, I like dark biscuits, dark biscuscuits,
Speaker 2: light milk, light milk. How does he live? Padded walls? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's padded cell with window of a beautiful garden.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and then famously starry night he was looking
Speaker 1: out the window of his insanea tount himself in the
Speaker 1: night and being like that's gorgeous and making a little
Speaker 1: sketch and then painting during the day.
Speaker 2: So he likes snad and day. He loves the time
Speaker 2: giving window.
Speaker 1: He's giving window, he is giving time of day.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, if he lived in modern times.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm like, would he be like more of
Speaker 1: a hoarder if you were an artist today? And would
Speaker 1: it be so like just cigarettes and like gatorade bottles.
Speaker 2: I can't, yeah, but it wouldn't be horor would be
Speaker 2: like I think it would be the meme mattress on
Speaker 2: the mattress on floor books, Gatorade one like vodka bottle.
Speaker 1: And I think that he still would be basically like
Speaker 1: because I was thinking of how he hasn't sold anything
Speaker 1: at all, and I'm like, God, if you could just
Speaker 1: get on Instagram, you could have a link tree and
Speaker 1: people could be like, Oh, here's my work. But I
Speaker 1: also think that he would be the kind of strikeuy
Speaker 1: who would just be like, I don't really fuck with Instagram.
Speaker 2: No. He would have a flip phone. Yeah, he'd be that.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh yeah, and he'd get an iPhone
Speaker 2: for Christmas and he'd be like I don't fucking want
Speaker 2: this and be like okay, and his mom would be like,
Speaker 2: what if you set up an Etsy? Yeah, and like
Speaker 2: maybe like Johanna would actually be setting up an Etsy
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 1: And he'd be like, you don't fucking get it, mom.
Speaker 2: They're trying to turn it into post girls already.
Speaker 1: But does he wear chor coat?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is he like o G French blue chort?
Speaker 1: Because I think he's also a little bit into the
Speaker 1: kind of like, Oh, no, I think he's which was
Speaker 1: chort coats. Yeah, and he's not being so like cravat
Speaker 1: and no, it's like maybe he's like suspenders.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's in like he's kind of ate
Speaker 2: a chortcoat on this.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, this famous self portrait, he's in a
Speaker 1: chortcoat and I think underneath but people like didn't have
Speaker 1: belts back then, like he did have suspenders.
Speaker 2: You live now, I feel like you'd wear a belt
Speaker 2: that'd be like a bicycle bungee cord tied around pants.
Speaker 1: You think he's that like Portland could be just being
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I just sucking something.
Speaker 2: I found it, Yeah, just hold it up.
Speaker 1: Maybe I think I think he's a little bit more like, oh,
Speaker 1: I took this from my dad and wearing my dad's belt.
Speaker 2: I hate my dad. I hate my dad, but I
Speaker 2: have but it's like a beautiful leather belt. Yeah, that too.
Speaker 2: I think he would go two faces. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: see like a little bit of a wide canvas pant
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Would he have like a little pony or No, No,
Speaker 1: he's kind.
Speaker 2: Of shorn less, like little creepy pony that's too new agy.
Speaker 1: But like low weird little like rattail on most.
Speaker 2: Oh, I could see him as rattail or like having
Speaker 2: an accidental like bullet, because he would definitely cut his own.
Speaker 1: Hair, yes, and it's hard to get the back and.
Speaker 2: Be like choppy bead head shoes like cool French leather
Speaker 2: shoes that like are actually kind of from like a bespokerye.
Speaker 2: But he would just see it as a local persons.
Speaker 2: You don't think he would, Oh, I'm just talking about then,
Speaker 2: But I feel like it was like just a place
Speaker 2: you would go to be.
Speaker 1: I think he'd be like so maryls and asex now
Speaker 1: like yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: And but in this way where someone if his dress
Speaker 2: your shoes, they'd be like, oh, where'd you get those?
Speaker 2: You'd be like, I don't know, man, I just like
Speaker 2: stumbled into the shop in Portugal and they they made
Speaker 2: these shoes for me, and they're like beautiful.
Speaker 1: Ex girlfriend and she's my cousin.
Speaker 2: My ex girlfriend cousin like knows this guy who got
Speaker 2: the wholesale like Portuguese leather like mohair loafers.
Speaker 1: Who are you in the book?
Speaker 2: You know. I was looking at good Gal's work and
Speaker 2: I was like drawn to it. Yeah, I was drawn
Speaker 2: to it, and like because it was being a little
Speaker 2: more like nightlife and like cafe.
Speaker 1: Go Gan spent a little more time on his works
Speaker 1: because Bengo really like busted through. He was just like Boom,
Speaker 1: I'm done, Boom, I'm done.
Speaker 2: Which I also kind of relate with, and like, Okay,
Speaker 2: made a drawing.
Speaker 1: Because I do think you have that confidence and that
Speaker 1: ability to stop and say it's done. It's done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like you're more like you could you could
Speaker 2: tweak forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think I'm actually more go gown that
Speaker 1: sense if we're just looking at the two Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I think I'm more van Go and being like
Speaker 2: I drew a chair of an old man.
Speaker 1: An old man say, but I also see my you know,
Speaker 1: I can be a gatekeeper in the sense that the okay.
Speaker 2: Are you theo, well, you are a support of the arts,
Speaker 2: Like I could also see you being like I will
Speaker 2: give you thirty two francs, but I'm not gonna like
Speaker 2: intro you to the senator. Yeah, you are a philanthropist.
Speaker 2: That's a little me and I'm van Go yeah, and
Speaker 2: I am just being like, how cool did that old man, Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 2: my new favorite person.
Speaker 1: What do I give this one? I have to say, like,
Speaker 1: I do think that he drones on and on and
Speaker 1: on and on.
Speaker 2: I was a little slow to get into it, but
Speaker 2: then I kind of locked in.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I find the letters to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: this a bridge version. Even with how a bridge, it
Speaker 1: is like.
Speaker 2: They're a little more bridged.
Speaker 1: And I feel like they also included a lot of
Speaker 1: maybe boring letters, but could have kept out some of
Speaker 1: the more interesting ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have loved like maybe this is out there, like, okay,
Speaker 2: what are his most sassy letters? And maybe, like I'll
Speaker 2: pitch that to Penguin Classics.
Speaker 1: I just find his writing style to be a little
Speaker 1: long winded, and he like takes a while to stay
Speaker 1: stuff and kind of repeats himself and like goes in
Speaker 1: these circles.
Speaker 2: And there's some beautiful lines here, but it's a little
Speaker 2: like give me Franks, give me Franks. Look at this drawing,
Speaker 2: and then they are like moments of genius. And it's
Speaker 2: always interesting to kind of see the time that he's in.
Speaker 1: Like, I sincerely hope that you won't conclude from this
Speaker 1: letter that I'm presumptuous have to think that would be
Speaker 1: possible to do something straight away with these first studies,
Speaker 1: seeing once interpreted certain remarks I made that way although
Speaker 1: I had met nothing of the sort anyway. I used
Speaker 1: to be able to tell better than I can now
Speaker 1: what something was worth and if it could be sold
Speaker 1: or not. Now it's daily brought home to me that
Speaker 1: I no longer know about that sort of thing, and
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in studying nature than the price of pictures.
Speaker 1: It's like you could have said that in one sentence,
Speaker 1: as opposed to take an entire paragraph to just be like, uh,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm, you know, not asware of whether
Speaker 1: or not something is commercially viable anymore, because I'm more
Speaker 1: interested in like nature and like the actual subject material.
Speaker 2: What I did like about this is how like fucking
Speaker 2: so he was about his parents. Look, I did love
Speaker 2: seeing that of him just being like mom and dad,
Speaker 2: I will return when they stop being such annoying ass Protestants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that, even though he is also being
Speaker 1: so like I'm so Christian.
Speaker 2: That part I was a little bit like, dude, chill,
Speaker 2: chill with the God stuff.
Speaker 1: I give this three out of five severalty years because
Speaker 1: I just like I wish it were a diary.
Speaker 2: No, it's hard, and then to go from like peace,
Speaker 2: I'm sir Picasso or no, sorry, diego.
Speaker 1: Letters like yes, people should write letters, but letters are
Speaker 1: a weird way of like archiving your life because like
Speaker 1: you're performing this like for this very specific audience of
Speaker 1: one and like brother, your brother, and I feel like
Speaker 1: it ends up being less like honest than.
Speaker 2: Which is interesting because it's how he sees himself towards
Speaker 2: his brothers another way of looking at it.
Speaker 1: True, but I think like a diary is more honest,
Speaker 1: but even also a memoir in some ways, even if
Speaker 1: you're being like fanciful about your own kind of like
Speaker 1: like mythology, like is some more honest away because you're
Speaker 1: like putting all the pieces together in a letter. You're
Speaker 1: trying to be like, oh, I'm only winding with this.
Speaker 1: One person will be interested.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it's like what actually is THEO interested? I
Speaker 2: give it three point two like insane asylum chickpea meals
Speaker 2: out of five. Like to kind of see his anger
Speaker 2: as someone who came to I guess impressionism as kind
Speaker 2: of this more like pretty genre. I think I liked
Speaker 2: seeing his anger.
Speaker 1: In the writing. Yep. And then now you see the
Speaker 1: passion in the breast trucks, in the breast trucks.
Speaker 2: And I will go to the starry night whatever like
Speaker 2: that's on the.
Speaker 1: Story, fire on the canvas, Yeah, and I'll go get
Speaker 1: a moment. Storry Knight is a member of their permanent collection.
Speaker 2: I love that museum, yeah, but I love the Art
Speaker 2: institud of Chicago better. And you can find us there
Speaker 2: February twenty seven.
Speaker 1: In the city, not the not the museum.
Speaker 2: Yeah you guys. Wow, what a journey through time and
Speaker 2: painting and art. Think you as always from the bottom
Speaker 2: of my heart for listening. Love you best, do you fear.
Speaker 2: I want to tell you about a painter I met
Speaker 2: in Amsterdam. Her name was Christina Everett Well. She is
Speaker 2: the executive producer of a group of artists a gallery show.
Speaker 2: It's quite amazing. I would love for you to connect
Speaker 2: me with them. She had a helpmate named Darby Masters
Speaker 2: who was a producer and she is a fine woman.
Speaker 2: I've been closed in here some of my drawings. Could
Speaker 2: you give them to Darby Masters? Now onto more important information.
Speaker 2: There's a supervising producer in Brittany his name is Abuzafar.
Speaker 2: I would like to stay at his house, so if
Speaker 2: you could arrange that, that would be amazing. And I
Speaker 2: know there's an engineer who worked there who could supply
Speaker 2: me with canvases and teach me how to stretch canvas,
Speaker 2: named the Heath Fraser. But by the way, I've enclosed
Speaker 2: another drawing for you to give to this man who
Speaker 2: owns a cafe in Nie Stephen Phillips Horst. He is
Speaker 2: a pianist of sorts and he will be putting on
Speaker 2: a show and he sings a theme song for Celebrity
Speaker 2: Book Club. So please give him him my drawing. I
Speaker 2: would like it displayed in his cafe. Next order of business.
Speaker 2: Last weekend, I at a beautiful weekend with the Prolile
Speaker 2: Project's crew. I'm not sure if they're a little mad
Speaker 2: at me though, because I let's just say this, I
Speaker 2: vomited all my food up on the weekend. I got
Speaker 2: a little too drunk on turpentine and now I am
Speaker 2: a little embarrassed. So if you would mind sending them
Speaker 2: twenty four francs, my apologies, Thank you very much.