WEBVTT - Mike Gauyo: Insecure 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.996 Pushkin. This is Solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We have 0:00:25.996 --> 0:00:28.796 a really special episode for you today. You may recall 0:00:28.876 --> 0:00:31.276 that back in September, I talked with TV writer Mike 0:00:31.316 --> 0:00:34.396 Goyo about his work to support young black writers in Hollywood. 0:00:34.836 --> 0:00:37.276 He mentioned then that his writing would be credited on 0:00:37.316 --> 0:00:41.236 the upcoming and final season of Insecure. Well, as you 0:00:41.316 --> 0:00:44.316 probably know, that season is well underway, so I asked 0:00:44.436 --> 0:00:47.116 Mike to come back to Solvable and spill all his secrets, 0:00:47.516 --> 0:00:49.076 or at least tell me more about what it was 0:00:49.116 --> 0:00:52.796 like writing for Insecure. Here's our conversation, and stick with 0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:54.956 us because at the end of this short chat, we'll 0:00:54.996 --> 0:00:59.276 share our original episode about Mike's inspiring mentorship program called 0:00:59.516 --> 0:01:03.516 the Black Boy Writes Black Girl Rights Mentorship Initiative. Here 0:01:03.516 --> 0:01:06.596 we go. You know, I follow you on Instagram. I 0:01:06.636 --> 0:01:09.356 saw your pictures. You do a big things with care 0:01:09.436 --> 0:01:14.036 right now. Stopped you for the premiere party. I did 0:01:14.116 --> 0:01:18.636 to myself. You look fantastic. I styled myself for for everything. 0:01:18.876 --> 0:01:24.156 Um that look came together in less than twenty four hours. Honestly, 0:01:24.196 --> 0:01:27.476 if I wasn't a writer, I would be in I 0:01:27.516 --> 0:01:30.356 would be in fashion fair. Yeah, yeah, you got your 0:01:30.396 --> 0:01:34.996 Instagram on lock Man like, no, thank you, thank you, 0:01:35.156 --> 0:01:38.356 thank you. The premiere was great, and you know, this 0:01:38.396 --> 0:01:41.756 is my first season writing on the show, but I've 0:01:41.796 --> 0:01:44.196 been a fan of the show since it started, you know, 0:01:44.756 --> 0:01:47.076 so being able to have that kind of like insider 0:01:47.196 --> 0:01:53.556 experience to its history almost like just a museum, felt great. 0:01:54.076 --> 0:01:56.196 It was awesome. So I know you've written for other 0:01:56.236 --> 0:01:58.716 shows like you know, Jenny and Georgia. You know, writing 0:01:58.716 --> 0:02:01.036 for a show like this where you're you're a fan 0:02:01.116 --> 0:02:03.596 of the show from the beginning, does that change the 0:02:03.636 --> 0:02:07.236 experience in the writer's room for you. It does. It does, 0:02:07.436 --> 0:02:10.156 and emotionally in the sense of like, oh this is 0:02:10.156 --> 0:02:12.956 my favorite show. Okay, I gotta do right by it. 0:02:13.556 --> 0:02:17.996 I can't be out here pitching like crazy stuff things 0:02:17.996 --> 0:02:23.316 that I wanted to see like season two, you know 0:02:23.316 --> 0:02:25.036 what I mean. It's like, Noah, she should have went 0:02:25.076 --> 0:02:31.556 with Daniel. Daniel like to tell you that, like the 0:02:31.756 --> 0:02:34.276 I think the first day in the writer's room, I 0:02:34.316 --> 0:02:36.196 was like, Okay, so this and this need to happen 0:02:36.436 --> 0:02:39.036 because if you don't, like you know, I was like, okay, 0:02:39.116 --> 0:02:42.196 my calm down. But yeah, I was, you know, incredibly 0:02:42.196 --> 0:02:45.116 excited and to your point, it's different than Ginny and 0:02:45.116 --> 0:02:47.596 Georgia only because Ginnie and Georgia is it was its 0:02:47.596 --> 0:02:53.676 first season, so you originated stuff. Yeah, so come on originator. No. 0:02:53.836 --> 0:02:57.076 But like the same kind of fanfare that people are 0:02:57.076 --> 0:03:02.076 experiencing over Jenny and Georgia as z words I experienced 0:03:02.196 --> 0:03:06.316 with Insecure. But when you're on a show and it's 0:03:06.356 --> 0:03:08.516 like the inception of the show and you're starting with 0:03:08.556 --> 0:03:11.636 the first season, then you and the other writers are 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:15.676 tasked with creating the world, with creating who these characters are. 0:03:15.836 --> 0:03:18.756 So when you become a part of that process, it's 0:03:18.796 --> 0:03:21.356 slightly harder to just be able to sit back as 0:03:21.356 --> 0:03:24.796 a fan and you know, and of course we love 0:03:24.956 --> 0:03:26.676 all the fans of the show and it it's become 0:03:26.716 --> 0:03:29.316 an incredibly successful show and we love that. But it's 0:03:29.316 --> 0:03:32.556 just a different experience, you know, Like with insecurests like 0:03:32.916 --> 0:03:35.636 I didn't have to write it. I didn't have to 0:03:35.676 --> 0:03:38.236 come up with these stories, and I could just enjoy 0:03:38.236 --> 0:03:40.516 it as a fan and like pick my team. I 0:03:40.596 --> 0:03:43.236 was like team Lawrence, team Nathan, Like who am I? Like? 0:03:43.516 --> 0:03:47.396 Do you know what I mean? Yelvable podcast? All right, 0:03:47.436 --> 0:03:49.356 I don't care. I didn't even ask anybody this is 0:03:49.396 --> 0:03:53.236 a time podcast. You can tell Malcolm tell everybody's Lauren's 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:56.556 Time podcast. Come on alone time when I'm mad at 0:03:56.596 --> 0:03:58.476 it and tell me Take me back forward a second, 0:03:58.556 --> 0:04:00.996 take me through if you remember, and I'm sure you do. 0:04:01.316 --> 0:04:04.356 What was your what was your first day working with 0:04:04.396 --> 0:04:06.516 the team like? And I imagine was it was a 0:04:06.596 --> 0:04:09.156 virtual were you in person? What was it like? It 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:12.196 was fantastic. What I'll say is I knew most of 0:04:12.236 --> 0:04:15.236 the writers personally, and it was my first time working 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:17.476 with a lot of them professionally. So there's that kind 0:04:17.476 --> 0:04:21.796 of like, Okay, Mike, don't be on here talking crazy 0:04:21.996 --> 0:04:25.396 like you would having drinks drinks with this person, you know, 0:04:25.516 --> 0:04:31.676 be professional, pitch beacup things like that. Say something smart 0:04:31.716 --> 0:04:34.196 like you know what you're talking about. But it was 0:04:34.236 --> 0:04:38.236 also different because it was my first virtual room because 0:04:38.316 --> 0:04:42.476 remember we were all in the depths of quarantine and 0:04:42.596 --> 0:04:46.476 that kind of like familial aspect of the writer's room. 0:04:46.796 --> 0:04:48.716 You don't really get to build it as much on 0:04:49.156 --> 0:04:54.916 Zoom Like it was very efficient, but that efficiency kind 0:04:54.916 --> 0:04:59.996 of slightly stepped on some of the relationship building maybe, 0:05:00.396 --> 0:05:02.556 but for the most part, like oh my god, the 0:05:02.636 --> 0:05:06.276 room experience was fantastic. Wow. So did you ever get 0:05:06.316 --> 0:05:08.916 to spend time on set and what was that like? 0:05:10.076 --> 0:05:17.916 I did to get to spend time on set. I 0:05:18.036 --> 0:05:22.316 love that you can't tell us everything, so I get it. 0:05:22.476 --> 0:05:30.836 I appreciate that. So imagine you're gonna get me. I'm not. 0:05:30.916 --> 0:05:33.356 I'm not, I'm not. So yeah. So you so you 0:05:33.396 --> 0:05:35.676 had a good time? I imagine? Um, what was your 0:05:35.716 --> 0:05:38.396 What was your favorite thing about about writing this season 0:05:38.476 --> 0:05:40.316 or about helping out this season that you can share 0:05:40.836 --> 0:05:44.836 talking about the larger themes of the show, and because 0:05:44.876 --> 0:05:48.396 it's the final season, you're closing out these characters and 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:50.676 their experiences and you're wanting to kind of give them 0:05:50.676 --> 0:05:55.116 their like full circle moment. Being able to discuss that 0:05:55.196 --> 0:05:58.956 and having conversations around that was great because you you 0:05:58.956 --> 0:06:04.556 get to assist in how these characters land emotionally in 0:06:04.596 --> 0:06:08.476 the series. It's like, what are they learning? What is 0:06:08.516 --> 0:06:11.116 coming up for them? What do we want the audience 0:06:11.156 --> 0:06:14.476 to know as we finish out the series. One thing 0:06:14.516 --> 0:06:17.076 that was really that we kind of landed on early 0:06:17.836 --> 0:06:20.636 is that we wanted it to write like we were 0:06:20.676 --> 0:06:23.636 getting a season six, so that we didn't feel the 0:06:23.716 --> 0:06:27.836 pressure of, oh, we have to, like, you know, really 0:06:27.836 --> 0:06:31.636 close out these characters in a huge way. Dada Insecure 0:06:31.676 --> 0:06:35.676 has been about slightive life stories and also like what 0:06:35.716 --> 0:06:37.636 it looks like if you were just you know, a 0:06:37.676 --> 0:06:40.476 fly on the wall in this person's life, in this 0:06:40.556 --> 0:06:45.436 particular section of this person's full life. So if that's 0:06:45.476 --> 0:06:50.276 the case, then let's not concern ourselves with closing them 0:06:50.276 --> 0:06:52.956 out in a way that feels finite, do you know 0:06:52.956 --> 0:06:57.676 what I mean. It's not meant for you to feel like, oh, okay, 0:06:57.716 --> 0:07:00.036 I'm never going to see that character again. It's meant 0:07:00.036 --> 0:07:03.156 to feel like that character is living on in a 0:07:03.356 --> 0:07:06.516 universe that you just don't get, you just aren't privy 0:07:06.516 --> 0:07:09.676 to anymore. Yeah, that's all you kind of wanted to 0:07:09.756 --> 0:07:12.396 feel like, Yeah, that's I kind of feel like that 0:07:12.436 --> 0:07:15.356 when I watched my favorite shows on television. Now, you know, 0:07:15.356 --> 0:07:16.916 when you look back to them over and over again, 0:07:16.996 --> 0:07:18.556 it always feels good to just go back to that 0:07:18.636 --> 0:07:22.796 episode and see that they're doing the same thing over 0:07:22.836 --> 0:07:24.676 and over again, to timeloop and you could just go 0:07:24.836 --> 0:07:27.476 visit them and see how this boding. You know, I 0:07:27.476 --> 0:07:29.396 guess I like it with some of my shows get 0:07:29.436 --> 0:07:31.796 revived and you get to see what they're doing. You're 0:07:31.796 --> 0:07:33.796 going to update on them, But I feel like some 0:07:33.836 --> 0:07:35.836 people take that too far. So I like what you're 0:07:35.876 --> 0:07:38.196 saying to just consider them being in a universe somewhere 0:07:38.516 --> 0:07:40.436 where I just I'm not privy to what they're doing. 0:07:40.516 --> 0:07:43.076 And I think that's that's excellent ways to write. Do 0:07:43.116 --> 0:07:45.996 you You know, with your with your foundation with black 0:07:46.036 --> 0:07:48.556 boy Rights, black girl Rights, you have a lot of 0:07:48.596 --> 0:07:51.076 advice for your mentees about you know, how to be 0:07:51.116 --> 0:07:53.596 in the room and all that. Did you find yourself 0:07:53.876 --> 0:07:56.996 using any of the advice that you have been giving 0:07:56.996 --> 0:08:01.276 out as a mentor. I feel myself not using my 0:08:01.356 --> 0:08:05.716 own advice. Okay, you know how I'm sitting there giving 0:08:05.756 --> 0:08:08.276 them like page advice about like what to do. Yeah, 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:11.116 and I'm over here, like Mike, you're not even saying 0:08:11.236 --> 0:08:14.556 what you said what you told them to do, so 0:08:14.716 --> 0:08:17.436 you know what I mean? So I try to remember 0:08:18.316 --> 0:08:22.436 that I am a member of the writing staff and 0:08:22.516 --> 0:08:25.716 not not just like a fan anymore. So that kind 0:08:25.756 --> 0:08:29.516 of like those those nerves that you might have about 0:08:29.556 --> 0:08:33.636 feeling like, okay, is what are thing making sense? You know, 0:08:33.716 --> 0:08:36.396 you quickly have to kind of dispel so that you 0:08:36.436 --> 0:08:46.076 can be an effective communicator. Okay, So I'm gonna ask 0:08:46.076 --> 0:08:48.756 you two questions that you probably can't answer, and that's okay, 0:08:48.756 --> 0:08:50.516 what I want to ask of it. Hey, all right, 0:08:50.556 --> 0:08:56.036 you can ask where there were there any particular lines 0:08:56.396 --> 0:08:58.396 or anything that you wrote that we can listen for 0:09:00.516 --> 0:09:04.756 coming up, coming up. In Nah, I can't tell you 0:09:04.756 --> 0:09:07.556 that I care. There are a couple that I am 0:09:07.596 --> 0:09:10.476 particularly proud of, and I have to like wait to 0:09:10.756 --> 0:09:13.676 I have to remember if they even made the final cut. 0:09:14.036 --> 0:09:16.916 But there are and I'm not saying anything. Okay, Well 0:09:16.996 --> 0:09:22.596 we'll talk about it. We'll talk offline. Nobody's listening, right right. 0:09:22.756 --> 0:09:27.476 Um by next question is, um, so you've done insecure now, 0:09:27.556 --> 0:09:28.996 you know what I mean? And that's you know, that's 0:09:29.036 --> 0:09:31.236 a pretty big feather in your cap. What do you 0:09:31.236 --> 0:09:34.836 want to do next? I have been so blessed and 0:09:34.876 --> 0:09:42.076 grateful to take on a few projects. I can't even 0:09:42.156 --> 0:09:45.276 talk about them yet. That's the thing. I can't talk 0:09:45.316 --> 0:09:48.316 about them that yet. They haven't been announced. Yeah, but 0:09:48.476 --> 0:09:50.836 as soon as they are, Ronald, you know, I'm gonna 0:09:50.876 --> 0:09:54.676 call you and be like, Yo, Ronald, what happened? This 0:09:54.756 --> 0:09:56.916 is what I was talking about? What I was talking about? 0:09:57.636 --> 0:10:00.076 So Mike. You know, I'm really glad that you took 0:10:00.076 --> 0:10:01.876 the time to be here. I consider you a friend 0:10:01.916 --> 0:10:03.836 to the show. You're the only guest that has returned, 0:10:04.436 --> 0:10:06.396 well except for Malcolm, of course, but you're the only 0:10:06.476 --> 0:10:10.316 gul You're the second that is that is Malcolm. Shout 0:10:10.316 --> 0:10:13.476 out to Malcolm Gladwell. But we're glad to have you back. 0:10:13.956 --> 0:10:15.956 Tell everybody how they can find you, and tell me 0:10:16.116 --> 0:10:18.356 more about the work that you're doing with Black Boy 0:10:18.436 --> 0:10:21.156 Rites and Black Girl Writes. Thank you. You can find 0:10:21.196 --> 0:10:24.996 me on Twitter at black Boy Writes. You can find 0:10:25.036 --> 0:10:28.756 me on Instagram also at black Boy Writes, but it's 0:10:28.756 --> 0:10:33.276 a period in between each letter. Blackboyris and Blackgy Rites 0:10:33.436 --> 0:10:36.796 is a mentorship initiative that I launched at the top 0:10:36.876 --> 0:10:41.476 of twenty twenty one to help writers of color gain 0:10:41.596 --> 0:10:44.236 access into the industry. You know, there are a lot 0:10:44.276 --> 0:10:48.276 of talented writers out there that just need the access. 0:10:48.556 --> 0:10:52.436 So please keep your eyes peeled for the twenty twenty 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:55.316 two class of mentees. I'm very proud of the program 0:10:55.356 --> 0:11:00.236 and hope that it becomes like a mainstay in the Hollywood. 0:11:00.836 --> 0:11:02.356 I hope it does too, man, I hope this is 0:11:02.396 --> 0:11:05.596 the beginning of something very big for you and and 0:11:05.836 --> 0:11:07.796 I'm really proud of the work that you're doing. I'm 0:11:07.796 --> 0:11:09.156 really glad that you came back to the show, and 0:11:09.276 --> 0:11:11.676 thanks for coming back. Thank you, thanks for having me. 0:11:11.756 --> 0:11:16.956 Ronald now solvable listeners. Here's the episode we first published 0:11:16.956 --> 0:11:19.796 back in September of twenty twenty one about Mike Goyle's 0:11:19.836 --> 0:11:28.236 mentorship initiative Black Boy Rights, Black Girl Rights. This is solvable. 0:11:28.716 --> 0:11:31.316 I'm Ronald Young Junior. We should be allowed to take 0:11:31.396 --> 0:11:33.476 up space, not just allowed to take up space. We 0:11:33.516 --> 0:11:37.196 should just be taking up space ourselves because we deserve it. 0:11:37.636 --> 0:11:40.716 In recent years, calls for more diverse representation in Hollywood 0:11:40.716 --> 0:11:44.276 and show business have grown louder and more frequent, whether 0:11:44.276 --> 0:11:47.396 it's April Rain starting the hashtag oscar so white or 0:11:47.556 --> 0:11:51.076 writer director actor Issa Ray using her large following to 0:11:51.116 --> 0:11:54.316 be rooting for everybody black. There have been many public 0:11:54.356 --> 0:11:57.876 calls for action around and criticism of the lack of 0:11:57.956 --> 0:12:02.756 visibility for non white folks in Hollywood. Without visibility, there's 0:12:02.796 --> 0:12:07.076 no change. Without visibility, there's no access. So it's really 0:12:07.116 --> 0:12:10.596 about getting in front of as many eyes and ears 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:13.756 as possible to get your story out there and in 0:12:13.836 --> 0:12:15.716 order to tell a story. You need to be in 0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:20.036 the room where stories are written, specifically writers rooms. According 0:12:20.076 --> 0:12:23.356 to a twenty seventeen report on representation in Hollywood and 0:12:23.476 --> 0:12:27.276 in Television, of nearly four thousand writers, four point eight 0:12:27.276 --> 0:12:30.116 percent of them were black, and over half of all 0:12:30.156 --> 0:12:34.476 shows have zero black writers. Mike Goyo is one of 0:12:34.516 --> 0:12:36.716 the very few who have made it to the inside. 0:12:37.356 --> 0:12:40.876 We're in this space now. We have to build out 0:12:40.876 --> 0:12:43.716 these programs for ourselves because if we don't build them out, 0:12:44.516 --> 0:12:47.276 everything will remain the same. So we have to kind 0:12:47.316 --> 0:12:51.076 of like take the initiative to do that. Goya's most 0:12:51.076 --> 0:12:53.556 recent job was writing for a little show on HBO. 0:12:53.716 --> 0:12:56.116 You might have heard me shout out on a previous 0:12:56.116 --> 0:13:00.796 solvable episode. That show is called Insecure and Today. Goyo 0:13:00.956 --> 0:13:03.716 is also the founder of a mentorship organization called Black 0:13:03.756 --> 0:13:07.036 Boy Rites and Black Girl Rights. They help burgeoning writers 0:13:07.076 --> 0:13:10.156 not only find their footing when entering a large white landscape, 0:13:10.396 --> 0:13:13.396 but also offer support and a network as they continue 0:13:13.396 --> 0:13:16.316 to grow their careers in Hollywood. The lack of creatives 0:13:16.356 --> 0:13:20.076 of color in positions of power in Hollywood is solvable. 0:13:24.836 --> 0:13:28.716 I met Etha early twenty fifteen, and like she had 0:13:28.756 --> 0:13:32.476 a mixer at her production company for Creatives of Color, 0:13:32.956 --> 0:13:35.076 and I went to that mixer, met her for all 0:13:35.116 --> 0:13:38.356 of two minutes. But Etha, I mean I credit her 0:13:38.436 --> 0:13:40.996 to helping me in my career. She has always helped 0:13:41.476 --> 0:13:44.836 up and coming creatives. And I met several people there 0:13:44.836 --> 0:13:47.756 that became my people, that became my tribe of people. 0:13:47.836 --> 0:13:50.356 She was like, you know, look to the people in 0:13:50.396 --> 0:13:53.596 the room to grow with, and that's exactly what I did, 0:13:53.836 --> 0:13:56.636 you know, and that is my group chat Like that 0:13:56.716 --> 0:13:58.876 is those are my people. We all came up at 0:13:58.876 --> 0:14:01.396 the same time, we all got staffed around the same time, 0:14:01.396 --> 0:14:04.956 we all continue to rise around the same time, and 0:14:05.036 --> 0:14:09.036 she really helped make that happen. So it's about how 0:14:09.436 --> 0:14:13.396 are all these creatives that are out here creative, the 0:14:13.396 --> 0:14:15.796 colors that are coming up in the business, how they're 0:14:15.836 --> 0:14:18.796 helping others come up. And I want to be able 0:14:18.796 --> 0:14:24.556 to do the same thing. Originally, you weren't going to 0:14:24.596 --> 0:14:28.836 be a writer, So tell me what your aspirations were 0:14:28.956 --> 0:14:32.156 or what your parents wanted you to be originally. You 0:14:32.196 --> 0:14:35.356 know what, I love that last minute correction there because 0:14:35.396 --> 0:14:38.516 it really was my parents. I was like, my aspirations, 0:14:38.556 --> 0:14:40.716 I don't think I knew what they were until my 0:14:40.756 --> 0:14:45.836 parents told me what they were. No. Yeah, I was, 0:14:46.116 --> 0:14:50.676 you know, being groomed to be a doctor by my parents, 0:14:50.716 --> 0:14:54.196 you know, from a young age. That's the road I 0:14:54.236 --> 0:14:57.596 went down. I didn't know anything else. But once I 0:14:57.636 --> 0:15:01.276 got to college and I started taking you know, theater 0:15:01.436 --> 0:15:05.036 classes and screenwriting classes, I was like, oh wow, I 0:15:05.236 --> 0:15:09.516 really enjoy this. I also came across you know, organic stream, 0:15:09.596 --> 0:15:13.956 was like, oh, okay, this is this is the enemy. 0:15:14.676 --> 0:15:20.356 Definitely not getting past this level. You're a child of 0:15:20.396 --> 0:15:24.236 Haitian immigrants, I am. The earthquake in Haiti in twenty ten, 0:15:24.716 --> 0:15:27.436 it bore some influence on making the switch from becoming 0:15:27.476 --> 0:15:30.916 a doctor to being fully focused on writing. Can you 0:15:30.956 --> 0:15:34.676 talk a little bit about that, Ronald this his research. Basically, 0:15:34.676 --> 0:15:37.516 what happened was my both my parents and my sister 0:15:37.796 --> 0:15:41.636 were in Haiti during the earthquake, so we couldn't have 0:15:41.636 --> 0:15:43.796 reached them for three days, so we were thinking the 0:15:43.876 --> 0:15:47.316 worst at the time. My little brother, who's he's twelve 0:15:47.396 --> 0:15:50.196 years younger than me, he was in my care at 0:15:50.196 --> 0:15:52.236 the time, so I'm also having to think of like, 0:15:52.476 --> 0:15:55.516 oh my god, like okay, my parents can't locate them. 0:15:56.036 --> 0:15:59.316 I'm like, you know, trying to put aside thoughts about 0:15:59.356 --> 0:16:03.196 like the idea of raising my little brother alone. So 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:07.356 after discovering they were okay and everything was fine, and 0:16:07.556 --> 0:16:10.356 you know, they eventually flew back to the States. I 0:16:10.396 --> 0:16:14.636 really had an aha moment of like, just a life 0:16:14.716 --> 0:16:17.036 is too short to live for other people, and I 0:16:17.116 --> 0:16:20.716 was really kind of living for everyone else but myself. 0:16:20.756 --> 0:16:25.276 I was living for my parents. It just wasn't working 0:16:25.316 --> 0:16:28.276 for me. I was really kind of like honestly depressed. 0:16:28.876 --> 0:16:30.476 That's when I decided to change my major to the 0:16:30.596 --> 0:16:35.276 theater with a concentration in creative writing. And then I 0:16:35.316 --> 0:16:37.476 also came out in the same year to my parents too, 0:16:37.516 --> 0:16:41.436 so that was that was what was that like for them? 0:16:42.156 --> 0:16:46.796 I mean it was man when I when I changed 0:16:46.916 --> 0:16:50.596 career path, my mother cried, was like, I can't believe 0:16:50.596 --> 0:16:53.996 you're doing this. Oh you were, you know, on such 0:16:53.996 --> 0:16:56.356 a good path. Now you're writing. I don't even know 0:16:56.356 --> 0:16:58.956 what that is, what does that even mean? And then 0:16:59.116 --> 0:17:00.956 my dad was like, it's gonna be all right. Just 0:17:01.076 --> 0:17:03.836 let him fly, like, let him do what he wants 0:17:03.836 --> 0:17:06.036 to do. He was very supportive in that way. And 0:17:06.036 --> 0:17:09.116 then I was, oh, fantastic. And then later that year 0:17:09.356 --> 0:17:11.676 when I came out, like my dad was crying and 0:17:11.716 --> 0:17:13.756 my mom was like, let him do what he wants, 0:17:13.796 --> 0:17:18.356 like you said, let him be free. I love that. 0:17:19.476 --> 0:17:22.996 So yeah, that was really a pivotal year for me, 0:17:23.156 --> 0:17:26.436 not just in my career what would become my career, 0:17:26.476 --> 0:17:28.996 but in my life. You know, your story really resonates 0:17:28.996 --> 0:17:31.556 with me because I was in it for most of 0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:34.276 my adult life. I'm still fairly due to this job, 0:17:34.676 --> 0:17:40.356 so I I appreciate that. So Viking, that adjustment was 0:17:40.676 --> 0:17:42.876 something that it was easy to wrap my head around 0:17:42.876 --> 0:17:45.036 because it was my dream job. But there were some 0:17:45.316 --> 0:17:48.396 difficulties in terms of switching industries and learning the industry 0:17:48.436 --> 0:17:50.716 and learning the people around me. My granted, I don't 0:17:50.756 --> 0:17:52.796 think you did a career switch, but even starting in 0:17:52.836 --> 0:17:54.996 this career in this world, tell me what that world 0:17:55.116 --> 0:17:58.156 was like, especially for you a black man, Like, what 0:17:58.236 --> 0:18:00.756 was that like? Interacting with all these folks and even 0:18:00.796 --> 0:18:02.716 though it is your dream job, what was that like? 0:18:04.116 --> 0:18:08.116 After graduating college, I knew that I wanted to Purdue Television. 0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:10.196 I knew I want to move to LA So I 0:18:10.236 --> 0:18:14.116 was making plans to move to LA. While making those plans, 0:18:14.156 --> 0:18:17.676 I was working as a production assistant in Boston. You know, 0:18:17.716 --> 0:18:20.796 I worked on the Equalizer as a production assistant with 0:18:20.956 --> 0:18:25.396 Denzel Washington. I worked on American Idol. I worked on 0:18:25.396 --> 0:18:27.596 a few other reality TV shows. But when I was 0:18:27.636 --> 0:18:30.676 working on American Idol, who was in Boston for their 0:18:30.796 --> 0:18:33.836 Boston auditions, I happened to mention a production like, Hey, 0:18:33.836 --> 0:18:36.836 I'm moving to LA in a month, and I'm like, okay, great. 0:18:36.916 --> 0:18:38.876 Once he moved to La, come work with us, and 0:18:38.916 --> 0:18:42.836 I was like, oh, say no. More So, once I moved, 0:18:42.876 --> 0:18:46.716 I had a job which was which was great. But 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:52.436 to your question, like when I got here, I felt like, Okay, 0:18:52.996 --> 0:18:56.156 this is the opportunity I was asking the universe for. 0:18:57.116 --> 0:19:01.116 So I need to kind of really focus and make 0:19:01.196 --> 0:19:06.356 some connections, start networking. Part of the my success has 0:19:06.396 --> 0:19:10.036 been building my network. And what I came to realize 0:19:10.196 --> 0:19:14.276 very quickly that my network will dictate my net worth 0:19:14.356 --> 0:19:17.436 in this business, and it's really about who you know 0:19:18.036 --> 0:19:21.396 as well as your talent. Some have been able to 0:19:21.436 --> 0:19:28.676 succeed with you know without both, but as if you're 0:19:28.716 --> 0:19:32.836 a person of color, you will most likely you will 0:19:32.916 --> 0:19:37.076 need both. It's far and being a person of color 0:19:37.116 --> 0:19:40.516 in this industry trying to come up and being able 0:19:40.516 --> 0:19:44.476 to create some type of like sustainable pathway program for 0:19:44.556 --> 0:19:48.916 other writers, or some type of like access that stays 0:19:49.116 --> 0:19:55.556 open for us is really important. So much of Hollywood 0:19:55.596 --> 0:19:58.676 is about who you know across all areas of work. 0:19:58.756 --> 0:20:02.036 Researchers have found that people in positions of power demonstrate 0:20:02.116 --> 0:20:05.676 unconscious bias. That's when we hire people who look like 0:20:05.796 --> 0:20:08.396 us or have a similar background or path the one 0:20:08.476 --> 0:20:11.676 we follow. Some people have a conscious bias too, of course, 0:20:11.956 --> 0:20:14.756 which leads to the same result. Doors shut to people 0:20:14.756 --> 0:20:18.276 of color in TV and film. The many white writers 0:20:18.356 --> 0:20:21.116 making it bring on other white writers, who in turn 0:20:21.196 --> 0:20:24.756 bring on more white writers. Only seven of every twenty 0:20:24.756 --> 0:20:29.276 writers is currently a person of color. Discrimination is perpetuated, 0:20:41.916 --> 0:20:45.076 Mike with your organization, black boy writes, black Girl writes, 0:20:45.316 --> 0:20:48.796 Are you seeking to create work and opportunities to overlooked 0:20:48.796 --> 0:20:51.236 folks in writing or is it more that you're trying 0:20:51.236 --> 0:20:54.556 to teach them about writing? Or is it both? It's 0:20:54.596 --> 0:20:57.716 really both. Once you're in the program, some of the 0:20:57.836 --> 0:21:01.516 features include writer round tables with other writers in the 0:21:01.596 --> 0:21:05.916 business who are established, and we try to invite as 0:21:05.996 --> 0:21:11.476 many people that feel like relay the to our mentees, 0:21:12.436 --> 0:21:16.596 imparting you know, tips about writing and also just like 0:21:16.636 --> 0:21:19.196 writer's room etiquette and things like that, like things you 0:21:19.196 --> 0:21:21.476 would normally you would not know unless you were in 0:21:21.516 --> 0:21:25.036 a writer's room. But it is also about providing access. 0:21:25.436 --> 0:21:28.516 You know, these conversations that we're having with these you know, 0:21:28.676 --> 0:21:31.836 established writers or like intimate conversations where they get to 0:21:32.516 --> 0:21:35.316 be free to ask any type of question they'd like 0:21:35.356 --> 0:21:37.516 to ask. They have some face time with the writers, 0:21:37.516 --> 0:21:40.716 They get the writers contact information so that they can 0:21:40.756 --> 0:21:44.156 contact them themselves and build like a personal their own 0:21:44.236 --> 0:21:48.076 like genuine personal relationship with that person. I try to 0:21:48.116 --> 0:21:53.596 provide them with access to securing general meetings with executives. 0:21:54.556 --> 0:21:58.156 It's really about creating a sense of visibility for them 0:21:58.796 --> 0:22:02.436 so that you can get the access that you need. Also, 0:22:02.476 --> 0:22:05.876 once the program is over, we have an alumni system 0:22:06.156 --> 0:22:09.076 where we're not going to let you just go off 0:22:09.596 --> 0:22:12.436 on your own and expect you to fly. Yeah, it's 0:22:12.476 --> 0:22:15.156 like it's like it's that thing of like when a 0:22:15.236 --> 0:22:19.716 mother bird like watches there baby fly off the branch. 0:22:20.196 --> 0:22:22.116 They at least look down to make sure that they 0:22:22.196 --> 0:22:26.316 made it. Like that they're okay. So as soon as 0:22:26.356 --> 0:22:29.196 like the program's over and it's really just a year program. 0:22:29.596 --> 0:22:33.356 The intention is to keep up with all our alumni 0:22:34.076 --> 0:22:35.996 and make sure that they are okay, make sure they've 0:22:35.996 --> 0:22:39.316 made it, make sure that they still have what they need. 0:22:40.036 --> 0:22:42.596 So Mike, like you, you give them a lot, Like 0:22:42.676 --> 0:22:45.876 that's a lot for a person to get, like, especially 0:22:45.916 --> 0:22:48.836 starting off as a writer. I imagine that this has 0:22:48.836 --> 0:22:51.916 to be connected to something that you felt was lacking 0:22:52.356 --> 0:22:54.276 as you were coming up in the program, Like, Man, 0:22:54.316 --> 0:22:55.916 I wish it I had would have had this. I 0:22:55.916 --> 0:22:57.596 wonder if you have any stories or anything that are 0:22:57.636 --> 0:23:00.476 attached to what you did not have a kind of 0:23:00.476 --> 0:23:02.876 what you had to fight for an advocate for yourself 0:23:03.476 --> 0:23:05.396 growing up as a young black writer in the game. 0:23:05.716 --> 0:23:08.836 You know what the funny thing is, Ronald, It's it's 0:23:08.836 --> 0:23:12.356 because of what I had that I'm doing what I'm doing. 0:23:12.476 --> 0:23:15.876 Do you know what I mean? It's of people that 0:23:16.076 --> 0:23:20.116 came up before me who gave me a helping hand, 0:23:20.156 --> 0:23:22.436 do you know what I mean? And who like and 0:23:22.596 --> 0:23:27.156 pulled me up. Yes, I credit my career to hard 0:23:27.156 --> 0:23:32.516 work and to ambition, right, but I also credited to 0:23:32.556 --> 0:23:35.676 people who have been mentors of mine and who have 0:23:35.796 --> 0:23:38.476