1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: for joining me for session three fifty seven of Me 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcast. We'll get right into our conversation 13 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: Hey there, I'm doctor mel and I'm on the Therapy 15 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: for Black Girls podcasts. I'm in session today unpacking how 16 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 2: to stop shooting on yourself. 17 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Take a second to think of all the things in 18 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: your life you've been told you should do. I should 19 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: eat more healthy, I should be a better mom, I 20 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: should have a partner. Now, imagine how much freer you 21 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: could be by transforming those shoulds into cans, allowing you 22 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: the ability to pursue your desires without shame. To talk 23 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: with me today about why women should stop shooting themselves. Yes, 24 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: you heard me right is returning guests doctor Melissa Robinson Brown. 25 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: Doctor mel is a licensed clinical psychologist, health and wellness enthusiast, 26 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: and tip passionate entrepreneur. In her private practice a renewed 27 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: focused psychology services, she helps women who want to feel 28 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: empowered while navigating difficult life situations and transitions. During our conversation, 29 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: we discuss how to notice when you've developed a pattern 30 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: of shooting on yourself or others, the importance of having 31 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: a strong group of friends who can help you combat 32 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: negative self talk, and how parents can stop the cycle 33 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: of shooting by embracing grace and compassion. If something resonates 34 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us 35 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or 36 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: join us over in the sister circle To talk more 37 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: about the episode, You can join us at community dot 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Well, thank 39 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us again today, Doctor mill Thank. 40 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: You so much for having me. I'm so excited to 41 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: be back on the podcast. It's been too. 42 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: Long, been way too long, and I know our listeners 43 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: are ready for an update. So, as you mentioned, it's 44 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: been a while since you've been with us since twenty twenty, 45 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: people will recognize your voice, maybe from men, but let 46 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: us know what you have been up to since you 47 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: were talking with us about living single. 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: So I continue to have a private practice. I now 49 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: have a group practice, so there are more clinicians available 50 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: to see clients. I have the side Packed designation, which 51 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: means I can see clients in over forty states and 52 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: do telehealth and actually have openings right now, which is 53 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: so rare. I have also moved a little bit into 54 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: the coaching space, so I have a coaching program called 55 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: Limitless and Fearless the Badass Transformation, where I help women 56 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: start to step into more of their authenticity, become bolder 57 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: in their requests and their asks, and set better boundaries 58 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: so they can go to work and leave that toxic 59 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: job that's been holding them back, or ask for that 60 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: raise they've been deserving, have more space in their lives 61 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: because now they are setting better boundaries with their family, 62 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: with their kids, their partners, and they feel seen and 63 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: they're developing really healthy relationships. So I'm really excited about 64 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: that program. And I have a journal coming out this 65 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: year called the Badass Transformation Journal. So we've been busy. 66 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: We've been busy over Yeah you have, Yes, you have. 67 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: So doctor Mail, tell me a little bit about what 68 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: made you start the coaching program and how it is 69 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: different maybe from the work that you do in clinical practice. 70 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. So clinical practice, I love it. 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: I love what I do, but there are limitations in 72 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: the sense that I get to see my clients one 73 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: to one forty five minutes a week. And while I 74 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: love that, I know that there is so much additional 75 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: work to be done in between, right in between those sessions. 76 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: And I also think there are such value to community. 77 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: So my coaching program right now is a group coaching program. 78 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: So the goal being, especially because I'm focusing on on 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: building healthier relationships, I want women to be able to 80 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: be in a space where they can start to build 81 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: community and get feedback about their growth, to get affirmation, 82 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: because so often they don't. Women don't get that right. 83 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: And so I moved into this space because number one, 84 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to reach and help more women. 85 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: But I just love the idea of coaching and encouraging 86 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: and promoting in a group space and being able to 87 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: do that in between work, in between the sessions, so 88 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: to speak. 89 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: I love that we love in vivo feedback. Right, There's 90 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: nothing like being able to hear in real time like 91 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: how you're coming across the people. 92 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, it's so powerful. 93 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. So so much of your work, doctor Mail 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: has really been about this kind of badass transformation in 95 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: so much of your work. I'm wondering in your work 96 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: with both your coaching clients and your therapy clients, if 97 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: there are general themes that come up about things that 98 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: get in the way of women and creating the lives 99 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: that they say they want for themselves. 100 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: Yes. One of the things that I really have been 101 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: focusing on I've always focused on, but I'm taking a 102 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: different approach to it is there are so many rules 103 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 2: and structures ways in which we are socialized to behave 104 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: to show up right, the concept of professionalism and how 105 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: we need to be in a space and be more professional. Right, 106 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: So somebody may look at me right now with my 107 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: purple hair, my big red earrings, these nails and be like, ugh, 108 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's professional, but that has nothing 109 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: to do with what's coming out in my mouth, right, 110 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: And so, really, so many of the things that get 111 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: in the way of women getting closer to what they 112 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: want is they're trying to follow the rules that were 113 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: set and established hundreds of years ago, and they were 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: relevant back then, but they're not relevant now, and the 115 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: idea of changing them is scary. There's no new template 116 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: to follow, there's no new pathway, and so we don't 117 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: change them because that's all we know. But we can't 118 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: get caught up in that old stuff because it's blocking 119 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: our come up now. 120 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,119 Speaker 1: Ooh, I love that, So talk to me more about 121 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: what does it look like to start because I think 122 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: for some people they don't even realize like they are 123 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: following these rules that like society and our parents and 124 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: other people have given us. So what does it look 125 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: like to start the work of changing some of these rules, 126 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: especially if you don't even know that you're operating by them. 127 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think it's first. 128 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody recently and knowing when you're stuck, 129 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: because usually when you feel like you're stuck, it's because 130 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: there's a rule you're following that doesn't fit, or there's 131 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: something about yourself that you're not accepting, and so once 132 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: you can start to identify what that is, it's helpful. 133 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: I'm a big journal start to get the things out 134 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: of your head because we think this and then we 135 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: get distracted by our kids and then oh this other 136 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: revelation comes up, and oh yeah, I gotta return this 137 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: work email. So all that good work that's happening in 138 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: your head, it gets lost. So journaling is so important 139 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: getting it out of your head and writing it down, 140 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: or getting it out of your head and talking it out. 141 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: Sometimes people are like, I don't want to write, or 142 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: journals are scary because what if somebody finds it? So 143 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: you do a voice memo, anything you can keep personal 144 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: to yourself. But start there and think about what do 145 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: you value the most in your life and what's driving that. 146 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: Is there a particular value, Is there a particular belief 147 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: that you're holding onto, and does that feel like it's 148 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: in alignment with how you want to live your life, 149 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: not how you should live your life, but how you 150 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: want to live it. And that's just a great place 151 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: to start to just start to jot those down. 152 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: So I wonder if you have a couple of journal 153 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: prompts that you maybe share doctor mail that you can 154 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: offer with our community that could be helpful for this process. 155 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 2: So I'm going to take it to like career, right, 156 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: because I talk about this a lot, and I'll even 157 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: do professionalism or what I wear to work. So you 158 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: may be thinking about, Hey, I want to show up 159 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: at work as my most authentic self. So the first 160 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: prop would be what does that look like to me? 161 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: Like if I had no restrictions in the world at work, 162 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: if there wasn't a dress code, if there wasn't a 163 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: boss telling me that I had to look or dress 164 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: a certain way, what would I put on? How would 165 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: I show up? What would it look like for me 166 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: to use my voice in those situations? Starting to journal 167 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: about if there were no restrictions, what would I do? 168 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: And then once you've written that down to say, am 169 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: I showing up this way now? Yes? Or no? And 170 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: if I am, what about this environment allows me to 171 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: do that? So thinking about Okay, yeah, I do think 172 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: I can show up the way I want at work. 173 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 2: I can wear color, I could change my hair, I 174 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: can put in braids, I can wear my fro I 175 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: can straighten it. What about that environment allows me to 176 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: do that? And then if your answer is no, to 177 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 2: am I showing up this way? What about this environment 178 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: is stopping me? What are the rules? What are the thoughts? 179 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: What's the culture here that's stopping me from showing up 180 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: the way I want? And do I want to continue 181 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: to stay here? Right? Is it worth it for me 182 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: to sacrifice this thing that I'm feeling or this thing 183 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: that I'm wanting to be in this work environment. I 184 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: feel like I gave you like ten prompts, but. 185 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure the community will love that. We love a 186 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: good journal assignment, so I appreciate you sharing that. And 187 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: something that you talked about that I think will be 188 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: helpful for us to talk a little bit more about 189 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: is not the things that you should do, but the 190 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: things that you want to do. And I know so 191 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: much of your work really focusing on stopping people from 192 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: shooting all over themselves, So can you talk to us 193 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: more about what does that mean? Like when you say, like, oh, 194 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: you're shooting on yourself again, what are we saying? 195 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: I have a series on TikTok that I do shooting Tuesdays, 196 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: and so many people will go what did you just say? 197 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I remember learning about that in grad 198 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: school and thinking I was so tickled if that was 199 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: a word. 200 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: Oh but when you should on yourself, you literally put 201 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: the shoulds on you and you are judging. So a 202 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: should signals judgment the minute you use it in your vocabulary. 203 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: I should mother this way. I should get married at 204 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: twenty six because that's what women do. I should have 205 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: a baby, I should pursue this career path because this 206 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: is what I went to school for. And it doesn't 207 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: matter if I really like art. I should be a 208 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: lawyer because that's what I got my degree in. Right, So, 209 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: the minute you start saying that, you're putting a judgment 210 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: on yourself because if you don't do it, then it 211 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: must be bad, right if you should and you're not. 212 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 2: And when we're shoulding on ourselves, we're just judging ourselves 213 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: all over the place. It's like judging up and down, 214 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 2: back and forth every which way, and that is really challenging. 215 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: We start to feel bad. Right, I should put my 216 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: kids to bed at seven pm. So then when you 217 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: put them to bed at eight pm, now you're feeling 218 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: like a bad mom. Right, I don't know any should 219 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 2: that then turns into a good thing. Even I should 220 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: do more self care Okay, But then because you don't, 221 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: you start to feel bad. Oh, I don't make enough 222 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: time for myself. I'm just failing at life. So when 223 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: you're shoulding on yourself, you're constantly judging and you're actually 224 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: not helping yourself make progress in any way. 225 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm thinking, what then is the balance? Because 226 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: some of those things that we're talking to ourselves about 227 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: are important, right, Like it is important for us to 228 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: make time for ourselves. It is good for kids to 229 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: have some structure, bed time kind of thing. So what 230 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of language should we be using? Should what kind 231 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: of language can we be using with ourselves to still 232 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: do the things that may be helpful for us, but 233 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: maybe not as judgment field. 234 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: So it's really about accepting yourself where you are and 235 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: recognizing that you want to do something differently or do 236 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: something better right. And also when you accept yourself where 237 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: you are, understand and recognize if you want to do 238 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: the thing you think you should be doing. Right. So 239 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 2: I should be putting my kids to bed at seven pm, Okay, 240 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: if that's something you truly believe because you've looked at 241 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: the science and you believe when kids go to bed 242 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: at seven pm they do better in the mornings, they 243 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: sleep better. Right, So you're aiming for something. You say, 244 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: I want to put my kids to bed at seven pm. 245 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: Right now, what we can make it to is eight. 246 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 2: But I know it's something I want to work on. 247 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: So maybe next week what I'll do is I'll start 248 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 2: storytime at six instead of at six point thirty. Let's 249 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: see if that gives us a little bit more time. 250 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: The difference is that you've given your self space to grow. 251 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: You've accepted right now, the way the house is working, 252 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: we can't get to bed till eight. But if it 253 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: feels really important to me to get them to bed 254 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: at seven, then I'm going to adjust and try something 255 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: different to see if that works. It's movement. When we 256 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: should we get stuck I should do this at seven. Oh, 257 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: I'm a bad mother. I've done the worst things in 258 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: the world. And then you're just stuck in this storm 259 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: of like, eugh, iickness, right versus the I want to 260 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: do this, and so because I want to do this, 261 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: let me try. Right, I should be more professional at work? Now? 262 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: Why because back in the sixteen hundreds when we came 263 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: up with professionalism and it was for white men. This 264 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: is where it started. We think we should show up 265 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: this way. No, right, I want to show up as 266 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: my best self at work? What does that look like 267 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: for me? And then you figure out what that is 268 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: and then again find the culture. So it really is 269 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: about taking out that should and using more language that 270 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: says I accept where I'm at now. Now what do 271 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: I want to do with where I'm at? Now? Do 272 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: I want to make change? Do I want to actually 273 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: create my own rules here? Right? Maybe you don't care 274 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: about getting your kids to bed at seven, Maybe eight 275 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: nine o'clock works for you because your kids sleep well 276 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: in the morning. I don't know, but yes, got it. 277 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, But first, a 278 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: quick snippet of what's coming up next week on TVG. 279 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: Why would we not focus on neuth mental health because 280 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: our young people, they don't get those issues addressed as 281 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: young people, They're going to grow into adulthood carrying those 282 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: issues which you know well and talk about all the time. 283 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: So so much of our experience as adults is rooted 284 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: in what were our experiences as children and So why 285 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: wouldn't we start the conversation with our young people? Why 286 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: would we not want to support young adults who graduated 287 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: high school and maybe in the military, out working or 288 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: starting families or in college. All of those young people 289 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 3: have needs, and those are periods of heavy transition, like 290 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: you're going from let makes you the middle middle to 291 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: high hi to college or the work or the military, 292 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: you're getting married, and so finding yourself and trying to 293 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: figure all that stuff out and not having mental health 294 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: support is too much. 295 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: So what kinds of things would be helpful for people 296 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: to identify when they are shitting on themselves? What kinds 297 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: of things should we be paying attention to? 298 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I always tell people to start with noticing. The 299 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: minute I say to somebody, be careful when you use should, 300 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: just like you did just a second ago. You're like, oh, 301 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: I should can just notice first? How often do shoulds 302 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: come up in your life? When I work with my 303 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: clients and we start talking about this, they're like, oh, 304 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: I got to change my language around us because they 305 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: start to become more aware. Awareness is like such a 306 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: big first step. So you want to become aware first, 307 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: and then once you become aware again that journal. Why 308 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: is that a should in your life? Gotta understand, right? 309 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: Why am I holding onto this should? I should put 310 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 2: my kids to bed at seven? I should only give 311 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: my kids healthy foods. They should not have McDonald's. Right, 312 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: Why are you holding onto that? Well? You know they 313 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: say that kids shouldn't have any fast food, and like, 314 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: feel like I'm really not giving them the best things. 315 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: All right, look at all the things you're doing. Oh 316 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: but during the week you give your kids broccoli and 317 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: grilled chicken and sweet potatoes, and then on Fridays they 318 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: ask for McDonald's. Balance. Balance works, right? So I think 319 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: we start with awareness and then once we identify where 320 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: we tend to say should, start writing. Why am I 321 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: holding onto this belief? Is it because I truly believe this? 322 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 2: Or is it because society told me this is how 323 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 2: it should be? Oh, look I said it, or my 324 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: mom told me these are the rules I'm supposed to follow, right, 325 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 2: or my dad or my caregivers or whoever my friends. 326 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: This is what all my friends are doing. I need 327 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 2: to be doing it too. So just understanding the source. 328 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: I wonder, doctor Mail, if there are particular shoulds you 329 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: have seen come up for black. 330 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 2: Women Mmmm, that's such a great question. There's definitely a 331 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: should related to parenting our kids. Right. My kid should 332 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: show up at school, hair done, clothes the best they 333 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: ever have been because we feel like we need to 334 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 2: represent in a particular way. I hear things around. I 335 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: should be a strong black woman because my ancestors have 336 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: done X, Y Z, because that's what's expected of me. 337 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: I should be careful with how loud I am in 338 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: a workplace because if I'm too loud, they're going to 339 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: criticize me. They're going to not give me the job 340 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: I want. We can do. Shouldn'ts too write. I shouldn't 341 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: ask for a raise because it's not my turn yet, 342 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: even though I've working really hard for a year, all 343 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 2: of these accomplishments I've had in my job, and then 344 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: it makes sense to ask for a raise. But people 345 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: get stuck in this idea of especially Black women, get 346 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 2: stuck in this idea of not asking for raisis. I 347 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 2: hear it a lot in our jobs. I should do 348 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 2: this particular job because I need to provide for my family. 349 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 2: I shouldn't pursue my passion because I need to show 350 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 2: up in a particular way so that I can be 351 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: respected as a black woman, respected as a black professional, 352 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: I should be partnered. So those are some of the 353 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: ones I hear a lot. 354 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not surprised by anything that you shared, and 355 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about 356 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: I mean, because in fairness, some of that is what 357 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: the world has told us, right, I mean, and we 358 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,239 Speaker 1: do know that there are expectations, and we know that 359 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: racism and all the isms still exist. So how do 360 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: you balance the reality of the world with the things 361 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: that you would like to do that may be different 362 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: from what the world real tills us. That is possible? 363 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: I think it's such a great question. The one that 364 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: was just coming up for me again was this idea 365 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: around hair. Right. We hear it so often. I should 366 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: wear my hair straight when I go to work, especially 367 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 2: if I'm in a corporate environment. I can't wear my 368 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: natural curly hair. They're not going to respect me, so 369 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: I should do this. So, first of all, when we 370 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: start to break free of some of these requirements and 371 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: rules and should there's risk taking involved, right, because we 372 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: are taking a risk. If the rule is every black 373 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 2: woman at work, she's got her hair straight, and if 374 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: I show up in these braids. I don't know what's 375 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: going to happen, Right, You're going to take a risk, 376 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: and you want to take what I call healthy risks. Right, So, 377 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 2: even if you're deciding to quit a job, even if 378 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: you're deciding to wear your hair differently than you ever have, 379 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 2: I say, take a healthy risk because I want you 380 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: to think it through. Impulsivity doesn't ever work well. But 381 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 2: I want you to think about both the advantages to 382 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: you doing what you want to do and the disadvantages. 383 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer in finding a culture that works 384 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: for you instead of you always trying to fit yourself 385 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: uncomfortably into a culture that just doesn't work. But even 386 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 2: that is a risk. Right. So if you say, at 387 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 2: my job, I tried to wear braids and everybody was 388 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: touching my hair and my superiors were looking at me strange, 389 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: and I just felt uncomfortable. So I went back to 390 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: wearing my hair straight because I needed to have my 391 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: job fair. I want you to keep your job, but 392 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: please start planning your exit strategy, because that's just the 393 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: tip of the iceberg in terms of how an environment 394 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: is going to try to control you. Right. And so 395 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: the world is telling us particular things, and there are 396 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: definitely spaces whereas black women, we are not going to 397 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: feel comfortable no matter what we do. We can shift, change, 398 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: tweak all we want, and they're still not going to 399 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 2: accept us. So it is a matter of taking a 400 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: healthy risk. All right, I can't be in this environment anymore. 401 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: I'm planning my exit strategy. So in a year, I'm 402 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: out of here. So I'm going to take everything I 403 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: need from this job. I'm going to start putting my 404 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: resume out, start networking, start figuring out how do I 405 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: get out of here right, And in a year, I'm 406 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 2: also going to start saving because in a year, I 407 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: gotta go because the impact on me is going to 408 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: be too great. So yes, the real world is out 409 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: there and it is telling us particular things, and we 410 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: have to find our spaces, our work environment, the right friends, 411 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 2: the right partners, the right networking situations. You have to 412 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 2: find the spaces where authenticity is valued. 413 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you bringing in the piece around risk 414 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: taking because I think that's important, right, Like some of 415 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: the things that you're suggesting and that we may desire 416 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: is a risk. What would you say to someone or 417 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: how might we be able to cope if we take 418 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: a risk, right, So maybe we're a little risk averse. 419 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: We take a risk because we wanted to do something different, 420 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: and then we don't get the expected results right, Like 421 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: it turns out it was a bad calculation or you know, 422 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: people just didn't accept it. What do we say to 423 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: ourselves to move past that? 424 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: So start with grace and compassion. It has to be first, 425 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 2: because black women, Oh, we're the worst with our negative 426 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: self talk. We go in, right, that was so dumb. 427 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,239 Speaker 2: You shouldn't have done that. There's a should, right, I 428 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: can't believe it. Oh, I'm such an idiot for believing that. 429 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: I knew this wasn't gonna work. See, this is what 430 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 2: happens when you step outside the box. I'm not doing 431 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: this anymore. But we have to have grace and self compassion. 432 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: Speak kindly to ourselves first and foremost. Applaud yourself for 433 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: taking a risk. It's not easy, right, it's scary af 434 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 2: to take a risk sometimes, and so the fact that 435 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: you had the courage to do it, applaud yourself for that, 436 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: and have grace and compassion when it didn't work out, right. 437 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: I think the second step there, though, is processing. We 438 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: have to have a good squad, right, and I know 439 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 2: you're so big on this, doctor Joy. Right, Having a 440 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 2: good group, particularly of female friends, who hold you down, 441 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: who cheer you on when things go well, who will 442 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: be your support when things don't go so well. Those 443 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: are the people you have to go to process. Don't 444 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: keep this in right, go to them when the risk 445 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: goes well too, But when the risk doesn't go well, 446 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: use your people, right it. Tap in to your people, y'all. 447 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: I need you. I need to talk through this because 448 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 2: I tried something, it didn't go well. I'm feeling bad, 449 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: but I need your help because those are the people 450 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: who are going to be good reflections. They're gonna be 451 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: good mirrors for you. They're gonna say, yeah, that was great. 452 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 2: Sometimes things don't work out, or I see why you 453 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: did that, and can I give you some feedback? Right, 454 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: But we need those people in our lives, so grace 455 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: and compassion first, watch that negative self talk, then tap 456 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: into your squad. 457 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about 458 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: why black women are so critical of ourselves. And I 459 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: don't know if you know any numbers of research that 460 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: suggests this. I would love to hear it. I don't 461 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: know that we are more critical on ourselves than anybody else, 462 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: but we definitely do have a lot of negative self 463 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: talk and can be very critical of ourselves. That I 464 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: think then in turn becomes us being very critical of 465 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: other people. So can you talk a little bit about 466 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: why you think black women are so critical in our 467 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: self talk. 468 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 2: I wish I had specific stats. I don't. I can 469 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: tell you anecdotally because my practice is probably about eighty 470 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: percent women of color, and then I do have the 471 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 2: other twenty percent that are white women. And I think 472 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: it comes down to two things. I think one is 473 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: sometimes the way we are parented, right, I hear a 474 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: lot of women who have grown up with hypercritical parents. 475 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of room for mistakes, There wasn't 476 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 2: a lot of room for risk taking, and in fact, 477 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: there wasn't a lot of room for just problem solving 478 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: and decision making. A lot of that was just done 479 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: for us or put on us, or we're told what 480 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: to do without being able to necessarily always use our 481 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 2: own thoughts. And if something didn't go well, let's say 482 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: a sea got brought home on the report card, or 483 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 2: you got in trouble at school, or you were supposed 484 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: to practice for an event and you didn't. The hell 485 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 2: storm that comes down from parenting around a mistake or 486 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: not doing something you were supposed to do. It's heavy 487 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: and it's intense, and we learn from our parents in 488 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 2: terms of how to react to a thing. So we 489 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: get real critical because when we were young, those mistakes 490 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 2: were huge, even though they really weren't supposed to make mistakes. 491 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: As kids, we're supposed to mess up, right, But our 492 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: parents are so quick to come for us that when 493 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: we get older, that's what we know. Come for yourself 494 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 2: when you've messed up. It's not really often taught grace 495 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: and compassion, right. Can I share a small anecdote really 496 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: quickly about this thinking. So I have three kids. I 497 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: have a fourteen, eleven and a seven year old, and 498 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 2: when my daughter was in seventh grade last year, she 499 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: got caught cheating, and oh my goodness, I think this 500 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: is the other piece of it. As black parents, we 501 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 2: think I'm working so hard, I'm teaching you the right 502 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: from the wrong. I'm busting my butt to make sure 503 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 2: you get what you need, and then you do this 504 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 2: it feels like a personal affront. So often right as parents, 505 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: And I had to sit with myself for a second 506 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: right and say it is not going to help me 507 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 2: to go at this child and take everything that I'm 508 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: feeling and put this on her. She already feels horrible. 509 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: Charnie feels really bad because she knows how we are 510 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: in our house, right, So for me to then go 511 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: for her in that moment is only going to then 512 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: make her more anxious and be more critical of herself 513 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: as she gets older. So I know what it's like 514 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: as a parent, especially as a black parent, because we're 515 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: sitting here thinking our kids need to be representative of 516 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: who we are, so we come down on them harder, right, 517 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: And as black women, we grow up with that we've 518 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: got to be the representation of black women. So if 519 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: we mess up, the world is ending, and we've got 520 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: to teach ourselves that the world is not ending. That 521 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 2: everybody is a human and humans air, humans make mistakes. 522 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: We've got to develop better self compassion. 523 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you sharing that because I definitely was thinking, 524 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: and I know you have three beautiful babies. I was 525 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: gonna ask you, like, Okay, as a mom, what kinds 526 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: of things can we be doing to not pass on 527 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: some of that, right, because as I hear you talking, 528 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know 529 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: exactly why many of our moms parented the way that 530 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: they did and dads and caregivers, right, And I think 531 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: we also need to look at how effective are those 532 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: strategies and things anymore, And I think what you're arguing 533 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: is that largely they are not, especially in terms of 534 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: our long term mental health. So when I hear you say, Okay, 535 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: she gets caught cheating, I'm thinking all of these things 536 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: and now I have to figure out how to respond 537 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: to her. What I hear you talking about is having 538 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: to do a lot of regulation of yourself so that 539 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: you can respond to her in a way that she 540 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 1: does not internalize all this bad stuff about her. Can 541 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about what we need to 542 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: be doing in those moments and what kind of work 543 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: it takes to get to the place where you can, 544 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, regulate and parent in that way. I'm asking 545 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: for myself. 546 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: I hear it's hard. I'm just gonna say like, it's hard, 547 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: full transparency. It was nice because I heard about this 548 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 2: when she was not home, and then I had like 549 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,239 Speaker 2: two hours before she got home to like process with 550 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: my husband, with my other mom friends who were all like, 551 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 2: I know you're mad and right, so yes, there is 552 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: some self work that has to happen. I think we 553 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: need to be really clear about what kind of parents 554 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: we want to be. Take a look at how you 555 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: were parented by grandma, by mom, by dad, right by 556 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: whoever was your caregiver, it was your aunt, whoever it was, 557 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: And take a look and say to yourself what did 558 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: I love about their parenting and what was really not great? 559 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: What made me feel bad as a kid. Right, there's 560 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: historical work we have to do because there's always connections, 561 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: and then you have to I'm going to go back 562 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 2: to it, have a really good squad, Right, Have people 563 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 2: in your life that are trying to raise their kids 564 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 2: similarly to how you're trying to raise them, who have 565 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: similar values. This may be a different group of girlfriends 566 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: than your girlfriends that you go to talk work related things, right, 567 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: because your work related things. Those girlfriends may not have 568 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: kids or maybe their great aunts and uncles, and they 569 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: could still be helpful. But my point is have a 570 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: good squad, because that's what helped me as soon as 571 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: it happened. I picked up my phone and I'm like, 572 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 2: you will not believe. And my husband is definitely a 573 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: really good yin and yang to me, so he does 574 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: not pop off as easily as I do. So he 575 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 2: brought me down. But my girlfriends were great. They were like, 576 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: everything you want to say to her, say it to us, 577 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: which was such a good pointer. They're like, every single 578 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: thing you want to be able to say to this child, 579 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: say it to us, so you can just get it out. 580 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: The emotion needs to go somewhere. I'm not telling you 581 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: not to feel angry, because it makes sense to feel angry. 582 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 2: I'm not telling you not to feel disappointed. That also 583 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 2: makes sense, but find a different place to put it 584 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: than on your child. 585 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you for that, Doctor mill. More 586 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: from our conversation after the break. So you've mentioned the 587 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: importance of our squads at least twice now in our conversation, 588 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: and again you know I am a big fan of that. 589 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: But I also wonder, and you've already referenced this, that 590 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: sometimes the shoulds that we get will sometimes come from 591 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: the people in our lives, maybe including our squads. So 592 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: how can we assess for ourselves if we may be 593 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: unintentionally shoulting on other people. 594 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great point. So a couple of things, 595 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: and I think you know this and have said this too. 596 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: First of all, don't be afraid to reconfigure the squad. Right. 597 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: As we change and we shift, sometimes our friendships don't 598 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: grow with us. And that's okay, season reason, lifetime. Right, 599 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: Sometimes there were friendships that made sense when you are 600 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: at a certain phase in your life, and as you 601 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: move on to the next phase, they're not growing with you. 602 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: They're not shifting with you, so it doesn't make sense. 603 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 2: So I do think that that's part of it, right, 604 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: making sure your squad makes sense at the phase that 605 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: you are in your life. But when we are to 606 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: know if we're intentionally shoulting on other people, should there judgment? Right, 607 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: So you're not only just assessing if you're shoulding, assess 608 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: that you're judging? Right? Am I judging my friend? When 609 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 2: my friend comes to me and says, I'll take a 610 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: sensitive topic that has happened, right, I think that my 611 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: child is trans and so I'm allowing them to transition. 612 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: And then you get questions like are you sure that's 613 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: something you want to do? I mean, isn't such and 614 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 2: such a little young for that? All of that is 615 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: disguised judgment, disguised because they're not saying that's a bad thing, 616 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: don't do it, but that are you sure, don't you think? 617 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: Blah blah blah? Right, that's disguised judgment. And if you 618 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: find yourself doing the same thing, going to that friend 619 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 2: who's about to quit their job, and you're like, are 620 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: you sure you want to quit that job? I mean, 621 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: don't they pay you one hundred thousand dollars a year? 622 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: Can you make up that money somewhere else? That's judgment. 623 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: That's your own sense of judging their decision that you're 624 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: now putting on another person that does not feel good 625 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: when you're trying to make a life transition or a pivot. 626 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: So I think it's just listening to when you yourself 627 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 2: have judgments or biases or fears. Right, when we see 628 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: our friend getting ready to quit their job and you're like, 629 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: I want to do that, but I could never Are 630 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 2: you sure you want to do that? That's how it's 631 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: going to come out. 632 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate you pointing that out right, because a lot 633 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: of times our judgment is really based in our own 634 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: fear or our own wish that we could do something differently, 635 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: and now somebody else is doing it and it makes 636 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: us feel bad, I think about ourselves. So in the 637 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: example you gave, right, let's say somebody in your squad, 638 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm seeing you in there, Like, I want to leave 639 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: this good government job, as people say, but I want 640 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: to do something else. I want to travel abroad for 641 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: a year. I want to do something completely different. What 642 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 1: kinds of things might we say or respond that are 643 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: not shitting on them? 644 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 2: The first one is I love that I am big 645 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: of this. I love that for you? That sounds so exciting. 646 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: How'd you get here? Like? Why did you decide to 647 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 2: do that? Well, the job has been really rough. I've 648 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 2: been talking to you like I've just been feeling so 649 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 2: unseen and my boss is racist. Wow, that's awesome. Like, 650 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 2: I love that you have gotten to this place where 651 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 2: you feel like you're ready to make this next step. 652 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 2: How can I support you? End of story? Right, there's 653 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: no well, how are you going to do that? And 654 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 2: like a whole year of traveling abroad? Is that okay? Right? 655 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: Have you talked to your husband? I mean, have you 656 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 2: talked to your husband? Or your partner about that. That's 657 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: not a judgmental question, right, that's just kind of a like, hey, 658 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,479 Speaker 2: have you like discussed this with the people in your life? 659 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: What are they saying about it? Are you feeling supported? 660 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 2: But the how can I support you? Is a really 661 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: great non judgmental way to be there for your friends 662 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: the excitement about what they've chosen, and y'all, tone matters. 663 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 2: So if somebody comes to you and share something they're 664 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: excited about and you're like, oh, that's cool, so let 665 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: me talk to you about X, Y Z and YLB 666 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: and if that is so clear that you actually do 667 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 2: not care or share in their excitement about the thing, right, 668 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 2: so like, let's actually feel enthusiastic about it. And if 669 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: you're not feeling enthusiastic about it, sit back for a 670 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 2: second and ask yourself, why am I not excited for 671 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: my friend? Why am I not excited for my bestie? Right? 672 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 2: She just came and shared amazing news with me. Why 673 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: am I feeling like, oh, that's fine and moving on? 674 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 2: Because there's something going on with you. 675 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: So, doctor Mail, we have a shared love of pop 676 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: culture and all things film, movie, podcast, all the things 677 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can identify some of your favorite 678 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: examples of women characters across tea, the books, and film 679 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: who you've seen stop shooting on themselves and how it 680 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: unlocks something for them. 681 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know why being Mary Jane is coming 682 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 2: to mind, even though that. 683 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: Was what I was thinking. She was the first one 684 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: that fassed into mind, like she's coming. 685 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 2: To mind, even though that's been off for a little while. 686 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: But I think Mary Jane had a lot of shoulds 687 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 2: about who she should be professionally, who she should be dating, right, 688 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: that is a big one, like I should be dating 689 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 2: this really fancy, corporate whatever person, and I actually I am 690 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 2: really feeling like I love the art teacher at the 691 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: high school. Right. That wasn't who she loved, But there 692 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 2: was just so much distinction between those two, and people 693 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: have status wise or who I am I should be 694 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 2: dating a certain person. But I felt like with Mary Jane, 695 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 2: over time she let go of those shoulds and started 696 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: just leaning into what made her happy, right in terms 697 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: of her relationships, in terms of her work. Right, there 698 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 2: was a passion she had for what she was doing, 699 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 2: and like what it looked like to actually pursue that 700 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 2: regardless of the judgment around her, Right, it just allowed 701 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 2: her to feel better. I think at the end, right 702 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 2: in that last sort of long episode they had or 703 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 2: our movie, whatever they did, at the end, I think 704 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: what I recognize is that she just started feeling better 705 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: about her, Like there's joy when you let go of 706 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 2: shoulds and lean into what actually works for you. I'm 707 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 2: trying to think if there's another character that comes to mind. 708 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: Have you watched the Belle Air reboot? 709 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 2: I have? 710 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: Ooh, okay, so I feel like all of the women 711 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: characters there, like the Mom, Hillary an Ashley. Yes, I 712 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: feel like all of them. Through the series, we've seen 713 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: them let go of some of the shoulds about who 714 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: they should be and do something very different. 715 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, specifically I'm thinking about Hillary right, if 716 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 2: you think about it too, Even again our long this 717 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: dating piece, I think for a while she was hiding 718 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 2: her relationship with Jazz because she thinks she should have 719 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 2: been dating I mean, and she didn't start dating the 720 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: football player, but like she should have been dating somebody else, Right, 721 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 2: Jazz wasn't the person people would expect her to be with, 722 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 2: and she experienced dissonance around that because that's who she liked. 723 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 2: I actually liked how they changed it and made them 724 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 2: a couple because there was always this fight against it 725 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: in the original. But that was a big part. Even 726 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 2: though we're talking about women. I saw it a lot 727 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 2: with Vivian. But like Carlton, right, who Carlton was trying 728 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: to be in that show was messing him up, right. 729 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 2: It caused him to take drugs. It caused him to 730 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 2: have so much jealousy and envy because he thought he 731 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 2: should be a certain way and the people around him 732 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: should show up a certain way. And it was so challenging. Right. 733 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 2: I think Ashley with her sexuality for a while, she 734 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 2: was sort of hiding that and should be straight. But 735 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 2: I think once she came into a place where it 736 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: was like, It's okay for me to like girls, and 737 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell people that she was able to 738 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 2: have relationships, right, she likes somebody, She felt freer with 739 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 2: her family, she could talk about it more freely. It 740 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 2: was so empowering. 741 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,439 Speaker 1: Agreed, Agreed. I'm ready for the next season. I hope 742 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: we get it very soon. 743 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 2: I really like it too. I like them. It's a 744 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 2: good show. 745 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: So you've shared so much with us today, Doctor Miil. 746 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could summarize or give us three 747 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: takeaways that you would like the community to have after 748 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,720 Speaker 1: checking out your conversation here. 749 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, so definitely to stop shooting on yourself, right, And 750 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 2: in order to do that, we have to develop an 751 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: awareness around our shoulds and then work towards why we 752 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 2: hold them and then what it looks like to let 753 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 2: it go. That's a really long one. I think the 754 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: second takeaway is taking some time to tap in and 755 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 2: understand what brings you joy, what makes you tick. Right, 756 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 2: so many of us deny and don't pay attention to 757 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 2: what makes us tick. We're so busy following rules that 758 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 2: are archaic and at a date and don't even make 759 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 2: sense anymore, but we're still following them, right. So really, 760 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,720 Speaker 2: just taking time to tap in with yourself and really 761 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 2: get to know yourself. And you can do that in 762 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 2: so many different ways, but journaling is such a really 763 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 2: great place to start. And I think the third one. 764 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed our conversation on parenting, and so I 765 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 2: think making sure that number one, you have a great 766 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 2: squad for feedback, and you have a great squad who 767 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: you can go and you can give them all the 768 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 2: stuff you would want to give to your kids in 769 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 2: the heat of the moment, but also as a parent, 770 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,959 Speaker 2: like instead of getting caught up and how we should 771 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: parent because our moms told us how to, because society 772 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 2: tells us how to, really think about, how did I 773 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 2: want to be parented? What kind of kids do I 774 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 2: want to raise right? And how do I get closer 775 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: to that based on the values the shoulds I let 776 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 2: go of, letting go of some of these rules, like 777 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 2: really again taking time to like understand if the shoulds 778 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 2: are impacting your parenting and if they are, how do 779 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 2: you let them go? 780 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for those So, where do we stay connected 781 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: with you? Doctor Meiel? What is your website as well 782 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: as any social media challenge you want to share? 783 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 2: Absolutely, so it's really easy to remember. On all socials, 784 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 2: I am doctor mel So It's literally i am d 785 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 2: R M E L on all socials, I'm the most 786 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok. And then my website is I 787 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 2: amdoctormeil dot com. 788 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: And can we find information about your coaching there? 789 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 2: My website is currently being redesigned and launched in April, 790 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 2: and that is when my coaching program will open. Up 791 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 2: again right now. I'm not taking new members, but you 792 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 2: go to my Instagram and click on my link tree. 793 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 2: There is a waitlist sign up there for Limitless and Fearless. 794 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 2: So if you are interested and once it launches again 795 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,439 Speaker 2: in April and you want to know more and find out, 796 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 2: I'll also be doing some free webinars leading up to it, 797 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 2: then just hop on my Instagram. My link tree is 798 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 2: linked on TikTok too, and there's a waitlist. Join that 799 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 2: waitlist and you will not miss a beat. 800 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: Perfect. We'll be sure to include all of that in 801 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 1: the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some 802 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: time with us again, Doctor Mail, and I really appreciate it. 803 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Doctor Joy. As always, 804 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 2: it is so easy to have conversation with you. I 805 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 2: can't even believe the time has passed. 806 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: Already, right right, Thank you, thank you so much. I'm 807 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 1: so glad Doctor Mail was able to join us today 808 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: to share her expertise. To learn more about her and 809 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: her work, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls 810 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: dot com slash Session three point fifty seven, and don't 811 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: forget to chext this episode two of your Girls right now. 812 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check 813 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com 814 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,439 Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into 815 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters, 816 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. 817 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for 818 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy 819 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,280 Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise 820 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. 821 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. 822 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all 823 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care. 824 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 2: What's