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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Oh, let me tell you we have a new star.

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Speaker 2: A star is born. Eylan Now he is Now, he's

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Speaker 2: an amazing guy.

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Speaker 3: Well, Jlon Muski is now the richest person on the planet.

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Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and

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Speaker 2: controlled by one.

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Speaker 3: Man starting his own artificial intelligence company.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate.

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Speaker 3: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year

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Speaker 3: it will be different.

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Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican.

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Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant

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Speaker 3: on him.

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Speaker 2: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

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Speaker 4: Anything he does is fascinating people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.

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Speaker 2: It's Wednesday, November sixth.

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Speaker 3: You are hearing a little snippet from Donald Trump's victory

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Speaker 3: speech very early this morning, in which he thanked his

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Speaker 3: main backer, who also happens to be the subject of

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Speaker 3: this podcast. I'm Max Chafkin, sitting in for David Popadopolis

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Speaker 3: and joining me from San Francisco, where I think she's

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Speaker 3: been up for most of the early morning is Dana Hall. Hey.

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Speaker 3: Dana Hey, you sound so energized, you sound.

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Speaker 2: Ready to ready to go. How late did you stay up?

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Speaker 2: I stayed up.

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Speaker 1: Until after midnight and then went to bed when it

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Speaker 1: seemed pretty clear that the race was called and the

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Speaker 1: brute blue wall was crumbling. And then I just didn't

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Speaker 1: really sleep very well and just woke up this morning

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Speaker 1: and I'm still just kind of like processing mentally what

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Speaker 1: this all means. I mean, we've been doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: for a year, and when we started it, I think

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Speaker 1: it was because we knew that Musk's you know, influence

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Speaker 1: in business, technology and all the different industries that he's

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Speaker 1: disrupted was only growing more strong. I did not think

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Speaker 1: a year ago that we would be sitting here, you know,

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Speaker 1: right after a blowout election with Musk being a main player.

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Speaker 3: The Department of Government Efficiency was spinning up to start

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Speaker 3: cutting vast swats of the federal bureaucracy, or at least

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Speaker 3: that's what Donald Trump and Elon Musk have suggested. I mean,

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Speaker 3: do you think it's fair to say that Elon won

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Speaker 3: this election for Trump?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: How much credit should we give him?

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Speaker 3: He was Trump's biggest financial backer, I'd say his most

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Speaker 3: important media backer. Obviously a huge ally but like, what's

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Speaker 3: your just like quick reaction to what this means for

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Speaker 3: Elon or for Trump or for the country.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I think that. Well, it's tricky. If

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Speaker 1: it had been narrower, like if Trump had won Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: but lost in a lot of other states, then we

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Speaker 1: could say that absolutely this was all Musk's influence, because

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Speaker 1: Musk really focused on Pennsylvania, but Trump gained everywhere. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's so it's hard to quantify what Musk's

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Speaker 1: influence was, but there's no doubt that Musk kind of

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Speaker 1: created a permission structure for people who maybe would never

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Speaker 1: have looked at Donald Trump to look at him among

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Speaker 1: Tesla owners and SpaceX fans and tech people and other

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Speaker 1: CEOs and people like Jeff Bezos, and he sort of

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Speaker 1: like opened the window to be like listen, like you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm like all in on being mega. And he

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Speaker 1: did so many things, going to the Butler rally, speaking

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Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden using X which he bought during

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Speaker 1: the midterms in twenty twenty two, to like really you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of ally with the Trump talking points, and so,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to quantify what the impact was,

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Speaker 1: but it was enormous.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just think at the top line,

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Speaker 3: it was just a huge win for a guy who

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Speaker 3: obviously has had a lot of success in other domains

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Speaker 3: but not in politics. And and you know, you just

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Speaker 3: have to sort of appreciate how sort of brazen this was,

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Speaker 3: and how how bold you know in a way that

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Speaker 3: like I guess Elon Musk has has made his kind

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Speaker 3: of signature. I mean, he he went in bigger for

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump than I think anybody probably outside of like

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Speaker 3: this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Would have expected.

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Speaker 3: He went harder to the right then I think almost

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Speaker 3: anyone who's backed him or has you know, journalists who've

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Speaker 3: covered him expected, and it looked very dangerous. And and

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Speaker 3: now I mean he's he's sitting pretty you know how

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Speaker 3: much influence he had, you put that aside.

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Speaker 2: He backed the right horse.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you look at Tesla stock today is

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Speaker 1: like skyrocketing. And Musk was at mar A Lago last night.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think what surprised me was that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you and I had been kind of like wargaming, like

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Speaker 1: the scenarios, and yesterday it was this really funny day

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Speaker 1: where Musk was supposed to have a town hall at

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Speaker 1: noon that like came and went and there was like

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Speaker 1: no sign of the town hall, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? And then all of a sudden, he's

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Speaker 1: like doing the town hall from his plane as he's

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Speaker 1: flying from you know, Texas where he voted to tomorrow Algo,

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Speaker 1: And I mean you and I were listening to that together,

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Speaker 1: Like he was sounding kind of cautious. He's like, well, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm optimistic that will prevail in Pennsylvania if like men

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Speaker 1: get out and vote, and like we're giving rides to

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Speaker 1: the Amish to make sure that they have transportation to

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Speaker 1: the polls because they're not allowed to drive themselves. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this doesn't sound this doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: so great. Like I felt like he was sort of

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Speaker 1: spinning it as like not a potential loss, but like

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Speaker 1: he wasn't. I don't know he was being caught. He

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Speaker 1: was sort of being cautious.

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Speaker 3: For protecting confidence in any sense, right, it sounded he

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Speaker 3: was dower elon there on the flight tomorrow a Lago.

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Speaker 1: I thought, Yeah, I felt like he was being like

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Speaker 1: cautiously optimistic. And I think that this is the thing

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Speaker 1: about that that Tesla fans will say, like don't bet

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Speaker 1: against Elon, Like he will put all of his chips

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Speaker 1: on the table. When he has like conviction, he will

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Speaker 1: make a decision and stick to it and nothing will

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Speaker 1: sway him. And it might seem crazy from the outside,

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Speaker 1: but like he has veiled in business and technology and

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Speaker 1: capitalism and now basically being like an oligarch because he

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Speaker 1: does have this like conviction that is kind of fearless

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Speaker 1: in the in the business world, and it's like just

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Speaker 1: this fearlessness that he is right. And I think that

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Speaker 1: you know, what I would like people who listen to

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Speaker 1: this podcast to take away is that he bought Twitter

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Speaker 1: and then he basically had a massive influence on the election,

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Speaker 1: and the two go hand in hand obviously, And like

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Speaker 1: we live in a very increasingly fractured media environment and

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Speaker 1: you can't overstate the impact of Musk owning Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the thing I was thinking of, there's

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Speaker 3: so much to talk about, and I'm sure we will

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Speaker 3: get to all of it, you know, on the coming

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Speaker 3: episodes and in the next episode of Citizen Elon and

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Speaker 3: probably for the next four years.

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Speaker 2: But like for me, you know, people have.

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Speaker 3: Been talking about the sort of money and politics. Basically

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Speaker 3: my entire life, and I feel like this is the

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Speaker 3: most It's like, this is like the most extreme version.

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Speaker 2: We have never seen anything like this.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people during Trump's first presidency

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Speaker 3: became much more powerful. You know, Jared Kushner became more powerful,

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Speaker 3: Peter Tiel became more powerful.

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk before.

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Speaker 3: This was more powerful than any of those guys. And

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Speaker 3: now you know, he's vaulted to a level of influence

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Speaker 3: that I think you're right. I think we have to

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Speaker 3: sort of think about it in the in the oligarch terms.

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Speaker 3: He's both a state actor and a very very wealthy

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Speaker 3: capitalist and that's something that you know, Trump is going

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Speaker 3: to have to contend with, Democrats are going to have

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Speaker 3: to contend with, and you know, citizens of the United

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Speaker 3: States and the world will contend with over the next

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Speaker 3: four years. Well.

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Speaker 1: And he's really like a trans national or trans state actor,

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Speaker 1: Like he has incredible you know ties to China with

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Speaker 1: Starlink operates in one hundred and over one hundred countries.

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Speaker 1: He is, you know, getting lithium from from countries all

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Speaker 1: over the world, and he has an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: power and leverage. And if you believe that Trump is transaction.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's very clear that the two of them

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Speaker 1: are going to work together. I mean this and I

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Speaker 1: know we you know, people have joked about this whole

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Speaker 1: Department of Government efficiency and the cost cutting, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's very real. I mean, I think that Elon

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Speaker 1: is gonna really reshape the federal government and he's going

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Speaker 1: to have carte blanche to do so. The Republicans also

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Speaker 1: won the Senate. It looks like they might hang onto

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Speaker 1: the house like this is a guy who you know

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Speaker 1: is not shy about you know, walk. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: the way that he has fired or let go of

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Speaker 1: people at his companies is could very be very similar

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Speaker 1: to the to the kind of way that he approaches

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Speaker 1: the federal government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. And I

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Speaker 2: think we need to.

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Speaker 3: It's really going to be more today a day, you know,

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Speaker 3: less than twelve hours after the election was called. We're

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Speaker 3: more just like starting to think about what questions are

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Speaker 3: going to be asked. We don't know that much. I

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Speaker 3: think the people who are on Trump's transition team don't

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Speaker 3: know that much. Right this the this is this stuff is.

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Speaker 2: Beginning right now.

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Speaker 3: Dan during the that that Twitter spaces that X space

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Speaker 3: is on the flight tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Lago. So Elon Musk started the day in Texas.

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Speaker 3: He voted in South Texas where he has his little house,

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Speaker 3: you know, where SpaceX's launch facility is. He got on

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Speaker 3: the plane, he had this spaces They talked a lot

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Speaker 3: about the election and how it was going. There was

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Speaker 3: this moment I wanted to just put focus on for

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Speaker 3: a minute when Elon Musk talked about the America Pack

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Speaker 3: going forward.

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Speaker 2: Let's just listen to that tape.

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Speaker 4: So America Pack is is going to keep going to

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Speaker 4: out the selection and pre preparing for the mid terms

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Speaker 4: and any intermediate elections, as well as looking at elections

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Speaker 4: at the district attorney level and you know, basically a

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Speaker 4: judicial sort of level, because I think something needs to

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Speaker 4: be done to kind of counter the damage that Stars

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Speaker 4: is done to the American system.

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Speaker 3: Dana we called this, I mean right, this is the

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Speaker 3: America Pack is going to be a big political force

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Speaker 3: going forward.

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Speaker 2: That's what I take away from this, Uh this clip.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this this was not a one off. And

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Speaker 1: when he's talking about Soros, he's he's obviously referring to

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Speaker 1: George Soros, the financier who has funded several campaigns, including

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Speaker 1: many progressive district attorneys and cities across the country, including

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Speaker 1: the one in Philadelphia that tried to kind of stop

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Speaker 1: the pack from giving the million dollar giveaways. So so

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Speaker 1: I think that what Musk is basically saying is, look,

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Speaker 1: money has always existed in politics. George Soros has funded

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Speaker 1: a lot of campaigns on the left. Musk sees himself

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Speaker 1: as like a countervailing uh point to that, Like, and

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Speaker 1: now he's it, He's in it. He's going to be

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Speaker 1: he's going to be eyeing the midterms. He's going to

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Speaker 1: be involved in local races. You know, I'm curious to

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Speaker 1: see if any people who work at as current companies

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Speaker 1: are now going to be dispatched to work at his pack.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's he going to pick the best of

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Speaker 1: the brightest and be like you do the data analysis

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Speaker 1: on this on this precinct, Like, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: working for Elon means that you have to be willing

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Speaker 1: to kind of go wherever he wants you to go.

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Speaker 1: And it's almost like he started a seventh company.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know it's on one hand, you might say,

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Speaker 3: is he really going to spend you know, one hundred

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Speaker 3: plus million dollars every two years on politics, which is

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Speaker 3: kind of what you know, he's indicated he wants to

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Speaker 3: be the anti Soros. This this, this comment here suggests

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Speaker 3: to be a major donor. You might say, oh, like

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk is not gonna want to throw away that

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Speaker 3: much money. But you know, you look at the price

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Speaker 3: of Tesla's stock this morning, and as we're recording, it's

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Speaker 3: up thirteen and a half percent. Roughly he has he

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Speaker 3: has made his net worth has gone up by I

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Speaker 3: don't know, somewhere between ten and fifteen billion dollars just

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Speaker 3: in terms of his Tesla stock ownership as well. If

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Speaker 3: you just look at this as like a pure return

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Speaker 3: on investment, one hundred and eighty five million for fifteen billion, like,

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Speaker 3: it looks pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Trump's win was a decisive victory. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 1: split Like he won the popular vote, he won the

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Speaker 1: electoral college. There's no race that's still being contested. It

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Speaker 1: was a decisive win for Trump. He won across all

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Speaker 1: demographic groups except for black women. And you know that's like,

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Speaker 1: that's that's pretty striking, and that's that's that's something that

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Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, any of the pundit class

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Speaker 1: saw and and I think that this is also just

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Speaker 1: a win for X, like because Musk is really going

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Speaker 1: to position X as the leading platform for news. Now. Granted,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've written a lot here at Bloomberg about

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Speaker 1: the disinformation on that platform, but it is a hugely

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Speaker 1: influential platform, and it's like a win. It's just a

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Speaker 1: huge win for Elon that the platform exists, that he

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Speaker 1: was able to buy it, even though advertisers have left

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Speaker 1: and a lot of high value users have left. It

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Speaker 1: is now going to be driving the conversation in Trump World,

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Speaker 1: and it's almost kind of become what Truth's social never

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Speaker 1: quite fully realized.

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Speaker 3: So, Dana, what do we think is actually going to happen,

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Speaker 3: you know now? Like like, I mean, obviously Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump does not become present till early next year,

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Speaker 3: you know, I assume Elon Musk doesn't start his job

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Speaker 3: or it's not even clear if he has a job

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Speaker 3: within the Trump White House yet. I mean, what are

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Speaker 3: you going to be looking for over the next month

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Speaker 3: or so to try to figure out what he's planning

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Speaker 3: on doing and how his sort of promises are actually

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Speaker 3: going to translate into I guess policy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So at the when we were at Madison Square Garden together,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of struck by the fact that Howard Lutnik,

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Speaker 1: who is the chair of the Transition Team, introduced Musk

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Speaker 1: as his DOGE co chair. So I think that Lutnik

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Speaker 1: and Musk together are going to kind of chair this commission.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to be a cabinet level thing, because

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Speaker 1: Musk doesn't want to have to unwind his investments in

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Speaker 1: all of his companies. But it's so it's not like

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Speaker 1: a center, it's not like a cabinet level. But I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to co chair this thing, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to take a look at the more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred federal agencies and the overlap between them, and they're

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Speaker 1: gonna cut I mean, they're talking about cutting two trillion

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Speaker 1: from the budget. That is an enormous that is it.

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Speaker 1: That is an enormous cut. So you know how that

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Speaker 1: will work a practice, I don't really know. I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of starting to think about which agencies might come under musks,

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Speaker 1: you know, might come under fire. I think that the

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Speaker 1: Department of Education is one that Musk is going to

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Speaker 1: look at pretty carefully. I think that he probably has

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Speaker 1: some thoughts about Nitze and the securities in Exchange Commission

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Speaker 1: and the FTC and the FCC and the Fish and

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Service and the FAA. I mean, he's he's openly

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Speaker 1: said that he thinks.

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Speaker 3: You're naming agencies that he has tangled with in the past,

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Speaker 3: which is it's a long list to be fair, I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you cut all those agencies that have had a

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Speaker 3: beef with Musk, you you wouldn't have much of an

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Speaker 3: executive branch.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I.

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Speaker 3: Think so so so I just two points and two things,

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Speaker 3: like I am watching. One is like this stuff, especially

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Speaker 3: the kinds of things you're talking about, like oh, cutting

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Speaker 3: the Department of Education or cutting two trillion dollars from

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Speaker 3: the federal budget, that's like going to be incredibly unpopular

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Speaker 3: and also like difficult to ex if you even could

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Speaker 3: do it. That's not to say like some of this

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Speaker 3: stuff couldn't happen. I mean, I think one thing we

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Speaker 3: learned over this election is that Elon Musk and Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump are really good at taking unpopular positions and finding

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Speaker 3: a constituency and like if you have a passionate but

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Speaker 3: small constituency for some position, they managed to transform that,

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Speaker 3: you know, into a successful presidential campaign.

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Speaker 2: You know, we did an.

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Speaker 3: Episode of this podcast, I don't know eight months ago

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Speaker 3: talking about how unpopular Elon Musk was with with with

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Speaker 3: the electorate. And you can look at Donald Trump's polling

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Speaker 3: numbers and they weren't super great going into this election.

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Speaker 3: So so I think, you know, it's possible that the

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Speaker 3: sort of marketing genius of these two men will turn

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Speaker 3: things around.

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Speaker 2: But I think the thing that I am more focused on.

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Speaker 3: Is sort of the last part of what you said, Like,

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Speaker 3: there are going to be questions about who should run

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Speaker 3: the SEC, who should run the FTC, should those should

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Speaker 3: those policies be more favorable to business to tech businesses,

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Speaker 3: and in particular to one tech entrepreneur, Elon Musk, And

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Speaker 3: I think we should expect Elon to exercise a real

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Speaker 3: influence there. He has already said, you know, he's already

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Speaker 3: talked about trying to push Lena Khan, the chair of

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Speaker 3: the FTC, out, I think there's an expectation he would

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Speaker 3: definitely go after Gary Gensler, the head of the SEC.

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Speaker 3: So so that I think that is kind of like

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Speaker 3: the more immediate thing. And then you know, who knows

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Speaker 3: I mean, this guy has tried crazy stuff in the past,

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Speaker 3: stuff that that I think a lot of people didn't

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Speaker 3: expect and and and that could certainly happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's also called for the for the

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Speaker 1: head of the FAA to resign. I mean, he's got

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think what's I guess what concerns

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Speaker 1: me as a citizen is that Muskin Trump hold grudges.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these are men who will never forget the

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Speaker 1: snubs and the slights that they have endured throughout their

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Speaker 1: careers when they were doubted and as you have have

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Speaker 1: you know, spoken so eloquently on on citizen Elon, you know,

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Speaker 1: the snub with Biden not inviting him to the EV

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Speaker 1: summit like that, that kind of helped to kick off

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Speaker 1: this whole thing. And so I just think that there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be some retribution involved in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 1: which agencies have been the biggest thorn in Elon's side

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Speaker 1: and back to the Department of Education. This is another

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Speaker 1: kind of trove that we need to need to get

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Speaker 1: into more. But if you look at food donated to

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Speaker 1: Musk's pack, most of the money came from Musk himself

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Speaker 1: and then other friends from Silicon Valley, like Sham Maguire,

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Speaker 1: Doug Leone from Sequoia. Antonio Gracias also donated, but like

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Speaker 1: Betsy Devas donated to the America Pack like she's the

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Speaker 1: former Secretary of Education. So there's there's some very interesting

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Speaker 1: bedfellows happening. And I think it's going to take an

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Speaker 1: enormous amount of journalism and investigative reporting to really figure

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Speaker 1: out what's going on now.

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Speaker 2: And podcasting, and we will and will be there. We

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Speaker 2: will be every Tuesday to catalog it and to interpret it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think there are going to be tons

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Speaker 3: of questions both for the businesses, for the stock market,

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Speaker 3: and of course for the government in the in the

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Speaker 3: weeks and months that follow.

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Speaker 2: Dana, thanks thanks for joining us. Hope you can get

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Speaker 2: some sleep.

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Speaker 1: Always a pleasure.

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Speaker 3: I'll see you on Slack in five minutes. This episode

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Speaker 3: was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Maserakis is our editor

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Speaker 3: and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The idea for this

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Speaker 3: very show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles Engineering

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Speaker 3: and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson.

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Speaker 3: The Elani theme is written and performed by Taka Yazuzawa

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Speaker 3: and Alex Sigierra. Brendan Francis, Neonham is our executive producer,

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Speaker 3: and Sage Bauman is the head.

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Speaker 2: Of pinwik Podcasts. A big thanks to our supporters Joel

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Speaker 2: Webber and Bradstone. I'm Max Chafkin.

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Speaker 3: If you have a minute, rate and review our show,

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Speaker 3: it'll help other listeners find us. We'll see you next week.