WEBVTT - Brain Fog Caused by COVID-19

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, October sixte. I'm Oscar Emiras from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Scientists are looking into what's becoming known as COVID brain fog.

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<v Speaker 1>These are lingering symptoms of memory loss, difficulty focusing, dizziness,

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<v Speaker 1>and even grasping for everyday words. Some COVID survivors say

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<v Speaker 1>that it's impacting their ability to work and function normally.

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<v Speaker 1>Pam Bellic, health and science writer at The New York Times,

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<v Speaker 1>joins us for what to know about COVID brain fog.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Pam, happy to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, as we go through this coronavirus pandemic, we

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<v Speaker 1>hear a lot about the symptoms and the after effects

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<v Speaker 1>after somebody has healed from COVID nineteen. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that's becoming more evident we're seeing a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people is called COVID brain fog. So these are cognitive

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<v Speaker 1>symptoms that people are experiencing memory loss, confusion, difficulty focusing, dizziness,

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<v Speaker 1>and even grasping for everyday words. I think there was

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<v Speaker 1>a surveyors soon to be published Serve they where this

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<v Speaker 1>was the fourth most common symptom that people were reporting

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<v Speaker 1>after recovering from COVID nineteen, So Ham tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about COVID brain fog, and then the people

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<v Speaker 1>that you spoke to, you know, how are they going

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<v Speaker 1>through all this? Yeah? Well, I think that this is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a phenomenon that we are going to

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<v Speaker 1>see a lot more of as people recover from the

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<v Speaker 1>physical symptoms of COVID. And as many people as I

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<v Speaker 1>found who were expressing this as a problem for them,

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<v Speaker 1>I think they're sort of just the tip of the iceberg. Frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>because many of the folks who are experiencing this right

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<v Speaker 1>now are people who weren't necessarily all that physically sick,

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<v Speaker 1>and they feel like, hey, no, I'm ready, I should

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<v Speaker 1>be able to get back to work, and they find

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<v Speaker 1>that they can't. These are people who are lawyers and

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<v Speaker 1>managers and nurses who just find that they can't focus,

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<v Speaker 1>they can't multitask, they have short term memory loss, all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of aspects of infusion and disorientation that is just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of debilitating. And for just one example, a nurse

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<v Speaker 1>who is featured in my article, she longtime nurse has

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<v Speaker 1>been working for an urgent care clinic for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>clearly knows what she's doing, and yet she goes into

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<v Speaker 1>an exam room for a patient and leaves the room

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<v Speaker 1>and can't remember what the patient just told her and

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<v Speaker 1>is forgetting to order routine lab tests or even sort

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<v Speaker 1>of medical terminology. She told me that she sort of

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<v Speaker 1>tries to kind of sidle up to colleagues and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>what's your favorite treatment for that, even though she knows

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<v Speaker 1>full well, like she should certainly know, like the back

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<v Speaker 1>of her hand, exactly what the treatment was. Unfortunately, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to her great credit, she's been very honest with her

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<v Speaker 1>clinic about this and has asked them to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that she isn't scheduled on a shift alone, and her

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<v Speaker 1>colleagues have been helping her out, so she's being conscientious

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<v Speaker 1>about it. But she doesn't have any more kind of

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<v Speaker 1>medical leave to take because she used it up to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with the physical symptoms, and so she's at work.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's just one example. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>because we hear about some of these longer term effects

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<v Speaker 1>after you recover from COVID nineteen, things like losing your

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<v Speaker 1>taste and smell takes a little while. They come back.

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<v Speaker 1>Being lethargic takes a little while to bounce back from.

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<v Speaker 1>And now this is another one where you just can't

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<v Speaker 1>operate the same way. And doctors scientists don't really know

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<v Speaker 1>what causes this brain fog, but they suggest it might

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<v Speaker 1>have something to do with how the overactive immune response

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<v Speaker 1>affects the body, the inflammation and blood cells, lining of

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<v Speaker 1>the blood vessels. This is kind of a thing where

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<v Speaker 1>we that we kind of keep following about COVID nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>that it's more than just a respiratory disease. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's a really key point that you've made here, which

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<v Speaker 1>is basically sort of the lack of a good sense

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<v Speaker 1>of what is causing this. And I think again that's

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<v Speaker 1>going to end up being significant because with the respiratory symptoms,

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<v Speaker 1>with some of the cardiac symptoms, some of the physical

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<v Speaker 1>law logical effects, they can be very serious, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>and people are going to be recovering from them on

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<v Speaker 1>their own timeline, and and some people will have a

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<v Speaker 1>harder time than others. But these are generally issues that

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<v Speaker 1>doctors know how to deal with. Neurological issues are a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more nebulous, and especially when we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>the exact cause. So there's virtually no evidence that the

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<v Speaker 1>virus itself is penetrating the brain, and so there has

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<v Speaker 1>been some i think misinformation out there about that, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's really not happening, certainly on any kind of widespread scale.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not like your brain is being destroyed. The

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<v Speaker 1>listeners should rest easy about that. What's this seems to be.

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<v Speaker 1>The neurological effects seem to be basically a consequence of

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<v Speaker 1>the way that your body is reacting to the virus.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you get the virus, your body mounts of

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<v Speaker 1>immune response, and as we've seen with some of the

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<v Speaker 1>physical symptoms, the immune response itself, for some people can

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<v Speaker 1>get so activated that it can cause more physical problems

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<v Speaker 1>for you than just the virus itself. Well, they think

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<v Speaker 1>that there may be some kind of corollary to that

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<v Speaker 1>happening neurologically, and some people their immune response gets so

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<v Speaker 1>activated to try to defeat this new, unknown viral enemy

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<v Speaker 1>and then just has possibly some trouble shutting off. Or

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<v Speaker 1>it could be that there are kind of little fragments

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<v Speaker 1>of viral genome kind of still hanging around in some

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<v Speaker 1>of yourselves, and so your immune system is not getting

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<v Speaker 1>the shut off signal, and that could be something that's

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<v Speaker 1>affecting what's going on with these neurological symptoms. It is

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<v Speaker 1>all sort of tied up with fatigue, which is something

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<v Speaker 1>that you mentioned. There's could be interplay with the body

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<v Speaker 1>recovering from if you have, say, still have some kind

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<v Speaker 1>of shortness of breath, that could be giving your body

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<v Speaker 1>more stress and that could be making it harder for

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<v Speaker 1>you cognitively as well. It's just a complicated in a

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<v Speaker 1>play of things, and it's unlikely that there's gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a pill you can take that you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to get your focus back just like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why I think it's going to end up

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<v Speaker 1>being a really significant for people and for the economy too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I imagine it's just very frustrating for people who

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<v Speaker 1>have gotten over this. You know, maybe they've got in

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<v Speaker 1>their negative tests and he's just lingering effects. There's somebody

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<v Speaker 1>you spoke to for the article that says, I've become

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<v Speaker 1>angry when people talk to me because it hurts my

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<v Speaker 1>brain to try and pay attention, and you know, frustration

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<v Speaker 1>over forgetting things. There was somebody that forgot their twelve

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<v Speaker 1>day vacation in Paris. You know, these things are probably

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<v Speaker 1>contribute to the kind of just exasperation from all this,

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<v Speaker 1>so definitely something more that they need to look into.

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<v Speaker 1>COVID brain fog. Pam Bellic, health and science writer at

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<v Speaker 1>The New York Times, thank you very much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh thank you. I'm Astar Ramirez and this has been

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<v Speaker 1>reopening America. Don't forget that. For today's big news stories,

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<v Speaker 1>you can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast

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<v Speaker 1>every monthy through Friday. So fall Alison, I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcast.