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Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. It is the last Saturday before Halloween. So

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Speaker 1: today's classic is a particularly creepy episode. It is our

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Speaker 1: October History Mysteries double feature. Many listeners have written into

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Speaker 1: talking about how creepy they find this one. Uh so

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Speaker 1: know that, and in it we talk about the disappearance

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Speaker 1: of Glenn and Bessie Hyde as well as the hinter

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Speaker 1: Kfik murders. So enjoy Happy Halloween. Welcome to Stuff You

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Speaker 1: Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Polly Frying and I'm

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Speaker 1: Tracy be Wilson. So today, since we are officially in

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Speaker 1: the Halloween season and in a Halloween mood, which I

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Speaker 1: always am, We're gonna do something kind of similar to

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Speaker 1: the two six Impossible episodes we've had in the past,

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Speaker 1: but these are gonna be two, So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a history Mystery to feature, and it's going to

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Speaker 1: be two unsolved mysteries completely unrelated except for the fact

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Speaker 1: that they both took place in the nineteen twenties and

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Speaker 1: both of these topics have been requested by listeners. Both

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Speaker 1: are really quite fascinating, but because of the open ended

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Speaker 1: nature of each of them and a relative lack of evidence.

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Speaker 1: Trying to piece together an entire episode on each would

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Speaker 1: have involved a lot of speculation rather than actual history.

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Speaker 1: So we're sticking to actual things we know for the

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Speaker 1: most part, and you're getting a two for one. So also,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to include a quick trigger warning. This episode

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Speaker 1: does include the discussion of some rather gory and violent things,

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Speaker 1: including violence against children. We're not going to get especially

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Speaker 1: graphic about it. But if that's something that you're just

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Speaker 1: not comfortable hearing about in any form, or if you

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Speaker 1: have younger listeners that you would rather shield from that

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Speaker 1: for the moment, the second story in our duo might

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Speaker 1: not be for you. So first we're going to get

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Speaker 1: started with the story of Glenn and Bessie Hyde, and

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Speaker 1: this one was requested most recently by our listener Joseph.

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Speaker 1: In ninety eight, newlyweds Glen and Bessie Hide decided to

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Speaker 1: start their marriage by trying to make history. They're going

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Speaker 1: to travel the entire length of the Grand Canyon by boat.

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Speaker 1: So if that doesn't sound all that ambitious to you,

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Speaker 1: please rest assured that, in fact, it was up to

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Speaker 1: that point. Remember this is only forty five people had

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Speaker 1: managed to travel the full length of the Grand Canyon

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Speaker 1: by river, and a woman had never done it, and

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Speaker 1: Bessie wanted to be the first, and Glenn wanted to

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Speaker 1: be the fastest. The forty five who had successfully made

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Speaker 1: the trip before the Hides had all done so in rowboats,

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Speaker 1: some of them modified, but Glen and Bessie wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it in a sweep scal Glenn, who was almost

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Speaker 1: thirty at the time, had plenty of boating experience growing up.

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Speaker 1: He boated on the skin A River in British Columbia

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Speaker 1: with his family by canoe on a regular basis, and

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Speaker 1: when Glen was twenty one, he and a friend had

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Speaker 1: actually taken a six month trip down Canada's Peace River

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Speaker 1: by canoe, and then he traveled on a sweep scoal

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Speaker 1: with his sister from the Salmon River and I toh

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Speaker 1: all the way to the Pacific Ocean. Bessie didn't have

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Speaker 1: the same boating experience that Glen died. She was more

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Speaker 1: of an artist than an outdoors woman, and she was

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Speaker 1: a graduate of the California School of Fine Art in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco. She was full of adventurous spirit and the

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Speaker 1: pair met in February of nine seven on a passenger ship,

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Speaker 1: and they got married a little more than a year

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Speaker 1: later in twin Falls, Idaho, on April twelfth of That

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Speaker 1: was an interesting date because it was also the sixteenth

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Speaker 1: anniversary of the Titanic sinking, and it was also just

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Speaker 1: one day after Bessie's divorced from her first husband was finalized.

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Speaker 1: Part of their motivation for this daring honeymoon that often

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Speaker 1: comes up is the idea that they could monetize a

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Speaker 1: successful trip down the canyon. Two expeditions with film crews

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Speaker 1: down the river in seven had garnered a lot of

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Speaker 1: media attention, one of them because it went very poorly

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Speaker 1: and required a rescue. If Bessie could make it down

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Speaker 1: the river, she would make history as the first woman

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Speaker 1: to do so, and if Glenn could do it in

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Speaker 1: record time, opportunities like book deals and lecture bookings would

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Speaker 1: probably follow. However, that is uh the commonly written about

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Speaker 1: reason for all of this, But Brad Dimmock, who wrote

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Speaker 1: a book about Glenn and Bessie titled Sunk Without a Sound,

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Speaker 1: actually came into possession of a letter from Bessie to

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Speaker 1: her aunt and uncle Ruth and Millard Haley after his

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Speaker 1: book had been completed and published, and he uh posted

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Speaker 1: this online with some commentary, And in this letter, Bessie

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Speaker 1: writes excitedly about the trip, and there's not a single

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Speaker 1: mention though about any of these ambitions in the way

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Speaker 1: of publicity or book deals or fame. So it's entirely

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Speaker 1: possible that that fame and moneymaking angle that is often

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Speaker 1: retold in this whole story is one of those embellishments

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Speaker 1: that has sort of grown around the story as time

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Speaker 1: has moved the actual details out of clear focus. Glenn

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Speaker 1: spent fifty dollars and two days putting together the boat,

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Speaker 1: which they named Rain in the Face, and they prepped

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Speaker 1: it with a bed, survival supplies, and journals awaiting their

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Speaker 1: documentation of the journey. They did not pack any life jackets,

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Speaker 1: and they started their journey on October with a plan

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Speaker 1: to arrive in Needles, California on December nine. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: at this point they had only been married about six months,

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Speaker 1: and initially the Hides did successfully navigate several sections of

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Speaker 1: the river. Several weeks into the journey. On November sixteenth,

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Speaker 1: they stopped at Grand Canyon Village on the South Rim

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Speaker 1: in order to get fresh supplies, and while there they

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Speaker 1: actually spoke with a Denver Post reporter about their adventure.

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Speaker 1: They also met up with Ellsworth and Emory Coleb, who

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Speaker 1: were well known boatman and even better known photographers who

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Speaker 1: had a studio on the cliff side. Emory Coleb wanted

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Speaker 1: to give them life jackets, but Glenn turned them down.

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Speaker 1: Cole would later say that it seemed like Bessie seemed

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Speaker 1: nervous and wanted to quit, but that Glenn was urging

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Speaker 1: her on, and famously, Bessie is quoted as saying, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if I'll ever wear pretty shoes again as she

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Speaker 1: looked at Emery's daughter's where. Then, when they returned to

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Speaker 1: the river with their resupply of provisions, they met up

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Speaker 1: with Adolph G. Sutro. This is not the Adolph Sutro

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Speaker 1: who was the mayor of San Francisco in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: It was, in fact his grandson, and Sutro asked if

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Speaker 1: he could ride along with them in their scow for

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Speaker 1: a day or so, and the Hides agreed, and Sutro

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Speaker 1: traveled the next eight miles of river with them. When

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Speaker 1: they dropped him off at Hermit Creek on November. It

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Speaker 1: would be the last time anyone saw them. Glenn and

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Speaker 1: Bessie did not arrive in Needles on December Nineth's plan.

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Speaker 1: When Glenn's expectant father, Roland Hyde, received no word of

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Speaker 1: their landing at the pre arranged date and location, he

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Speaker 1: immediately feared that something had gone wrong. Roland Hide launched

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Speaker 1: a massive search effort to find Glenn and Bessie. There

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Speaker 1: were search parties tasked with canvassing sections of the river,

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Speaker 1: so multiple searches were going on at one time in

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Speaker 1: different places. Native American trackers were recruited to see if

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Speaker 1: they could find any evidence of the pair moving over land,

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Speaker 1: and eventually even an aerial search was authorized by the

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Speaker 1: U S Secretary of Wars. They actually used military planes

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Speaker 1: to look for them. After days of searching, the Hide

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Speaker 1: scow was spotted in the aerial sweep and was sitting

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the river at mile two thirty seven.

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Speaker 1: Emory Colb and his brother joined Roland Hide, and the

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Speaker 1: trio traveled to Peach Springs, Arizona, where they hiked down

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Speaker 1: to the mouth of Diamond Creek, located at mile There

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Speaker 1: are boat sat awaiting repair the cold brothers took several

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Speaker 1: days to get the reclaimed boat water ready, and then

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Speaker 1: they headed to the location where the scow had been spotted.

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Speaker 1: Roland did not go with them. When they reached the

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Speaker 1: rain in the face, it was December. The boat was

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Speaker 1: completely intact. All of the supplies that Glenn and Bessie

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Speaker 1: had packed remained, and everything was tidy and stowed properly.

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Speaker 1: It did not look like it had been shifted about

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Speaker 1: in some sort of dangerous event. Uh. The Cold Brothers

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Speaker 1: photographed the scene then, being quite well now photographers, we

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Speaker 1: actually have some really good pictures in terms of capturing

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Speaker 1: what they found. And then they returned to Roland Hyde.

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Speaker 1: They gathered as much as they could take with them,

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Speaker 1: and they told him that it did not appear that

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Speaker 1: Glenn and Bessie had left their boat intentionally. Based on

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Speaker 1: Bessie's diary, which was found in the boat, the two

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Speaker 1: thirty two mile Rapid was likely the last section of

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Speaker 1: river that they ran. They had made it six hundred

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Speaker 1: miles on the Green and Colorado Rivers. The boat was

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Speaker 1: found just forty six miles from the mouth of the

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Speaker 1: Grand Canyon, and according to the details of the journal,

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Speaker 1: they had actually been ahead of schedule. Yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: had been moving along quite well. They were ahead of schedule.

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Speaker 1: They were very close to the end. Uh. But we

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Speaker 1: they were simply not there when they went to look

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Speaker 1: for them. And while I want to be clear when

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Speaker 1: I say that all of their supplies were stowed, they

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Speaker 1: were in the places you would expect them to be

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Speaker 1: during normal use, they weren't stowed like packed away, like

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Speaker 1: they had had left the boat and they were going

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Speaker 1: off somewhere else. But before we wrap up the Glen

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Speaker 1: and Bessie Hyde story, let's pause for a brief word

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Speaker 1: from one of our fabulous sponsors. Sounds good. It was

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Speaker 1: not long before most people and most news outlets declared

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Speaker 1: that the Newlyweds must be dead. Their bodies were not

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Speaker 1: ever found, though, although Roland later did return to search

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Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, he even went back the following winter

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Speaker 1: to search for them. He kind of looked in different

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Speaker 1: conditions hoping that he would find them, but nothing ever

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Speaker 1: turned up. So what happened to the newly Weds remains

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Speaker 1: a mystery, although, of course, in cases like this, numerous

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Speaker 1: theories have arisen. Where the hides murdered? Did they drown?

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Speaker 1: A few interesting possibilities have cropped up over the years

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Speaker 1: that kind of get repeated over and over. In nine one,

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Speaker 1: during a commercial boating trip, while the participants were sitting

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Speaker 1: around a campfire, an elderly woman claimed to be Bessie.

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Speaker 1: When the woman was questioned by one of the other

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Speaker 1: attendees about Glenn, she said she had stabbed him after

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Speaker 1: a fight and then hiked to Peach Springs, Arizona, and

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Speaker 1: gotten on a bus going east, where she started a

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Speaker 1: new life. Investigation unearthed a far more mundane story that

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Speaker 1: she was simply a retired lady who liked to pull

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Speaker 1: people's legs. Yeah, it seems really cool, and it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things I always have to chuckle a little

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Speaker 1: bit if you read sort of brief descriptions of this.

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Speaker 1: They'll talk about all of the possibilities, but they never

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Speaker 1: talked about the more mundane things that get turned up

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Speaker 1: if you look more closely, of course. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: later in ninety six, a skull with a bullet hole

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Speaker 1: in it was found on Emery Coleb's property, and rumors

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Speaker 1: started to circulate that it could be Glenn's. However, forensics

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Speaker 1: ruled out that possibility. That man who I don't believe

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Speaker 1: has ever been identified. Had died no earlier according to

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Speaker 1: these to testing the nineteen seventy two, and he was

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Speaker 1: only twenty two at the time, so he and not

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Speaker 1: possibly have been Glenn. Another river guy, a woman named

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Speaker 1: Georgie Clark, died in and among her belongings was found

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Speaker 1: the Hide's marriage certificate, so question coming up was she Bessie.

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Speaker 1: There was also a birth certificate indicating that her name

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Speaker 1: was Bessie d Ross, not Georgie, which has also fields

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Speaker 1: some speculation, but none of these claims have been substantiated. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a number of historians have weighed in on it, and

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Speaker 1: after closer investigation, they really don't feel like this is

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Speaker 1: the real deal. I don't think the documents are authentic

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Speaker 1: or right um or that like, possibly one is but

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Speaker 1: not the other. It would be weird if Bessie had

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Speaker 1: vanished on the river and she happened to have her

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Speaker 1: birth certificate and marriage certificate with her, Like those aren't

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Speaker 1: things you take on a boating trip. At least it's

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Speaker 1: not anything I would take on a boating trip. But uh,

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Speaker 1: those are just food for thoughts. So we really don't know.

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Speaker 1: The you know, speculation will probably go on forever because

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Speaker 1: at this point we are almost a hundred years out,

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Speaker 1: We're ninety years out or so, and you know, we're

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Speaker 1: not not likely going to get any big answers on

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Speaker 1: those uh. And that brings us to the second of

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Speaker 1: our sort of creepy story double feature. This is uh

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Speaker 1: insanely creepy in my opinion. It's also often very requested.

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Speaker 1: Most recently it was requested by our listeners Stacy. And

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Speaker 1: while it is a great story and one that I

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Speaker 1: have always found fascinating and have debated about trying to

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Speaker 1: put a standalone episode together around it, there just really

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Speaker 1: is not enough to go on. Uh. So that's the

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Speaker 1: scoop on this one. We are talking about the hint

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Speaker 1: Kfic murders. This is a long standing unsolved crime and

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Speaker 1: it's one of the most famous in German history. So

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Speaker 1: the word Hinterkfic I think part of the reason that

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Speaker 1: this one gets so much excitement is it it sounds

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Speaker 1: exotic because it's foreign to any English listeners, but English

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Speaker 1: speaking listeners. But in fact that is actually the name

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Speaker 1: of the farm where these murders took place, hinter If.

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Speaker 1: I'm remembering my very sloppy appreciation of German correctly usually

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Speaker 1: means behind Uh, and this was behind an area that

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Speaker 1: would have been called Kfeck. This farmstead was about three

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Speaker 1: from grubern Uh and that was in the Bavarian municipality

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Speaker 1: of Vangen which is now the municipality of Vadhoven. And

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Speaker 1: the farm was about a kilometer away from the town

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Speaker 1: of k Fix. So, like I said, the name literally

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Speaker 1: meant behind Kfik and it was a relatively isolated farmstead

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Speaker 1: living at hinterkfe in N when this happened, where a farmer,

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Speaker 1: Andreas Gruber, who was sixty three, his wife Cazilia, who

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Speaker 1: was seventy two, their daughter Victoria aged thirty five, who

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Speaker 1: was a widow, and Victoria's two children, all len also

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Speaker 1: named Kazia who was seven and Joseph, who was two.

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Speaker 1: In addition to family, a brand new maid named Maria Bumgartner,

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Speaker 1: age forty four was at the farm as well, and

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Speaker 1: we mean we mean super brand new. She had started

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Speaker 1: work the very day that these events were going to

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Speaker 1: talk about came to a crescendo. The previous made that

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Speaker 1: they had had had quit rather abruptly six months prior.

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Speaker 1: In the autumn of the story goes that she very

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Speaker 1: frankly told them that she believed that the farm was haunted,

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Speaker 1: that she wanted to leave right away, and she believed

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Speaker 1: that because she heard noises, both footsteps and voices, she

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Speaker 1: claimed coming from the attic. On March, Andreas Gruber made

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Speaker 1: an odd discovery. He found footprints in the snow leading

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Speaker 1: from the edge of the forest to his farm. There

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Speaker 1: was no matching set leading back into the woods. My

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Speaker 1: heart is beating a little faster having read that sentence.

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Speaker 1: He also found evidence that someone had tried to pick

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Speaker 1: the lock on his garage. He told his neighbors that

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Speaker 1: he had found a strange paper left at the house

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Speaker 1: and had heard strange noises in the attic. A set

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Speaker 1: of keys had also vanished. And upon hearing about these

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Speaker 1: strange events, we should include the grouper check them out.

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Speaker 1: He looked in the attic and he found nobody, and

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Speaker 1: he you know, looked around for his keys, and he

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Speaker 1: tried to think of any way that the newspaper could

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Speaker 1: have gotten I believe it was on his porch, uh,

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Speaker 1: But he never found anybody or anything. He just kind

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Speaker 1: of shrugged it off. So when he was telling his

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Speaker 1: neighbors about these strange events. One of them actually offered

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Speaker 1: him a revolver for self defense because it sounded really

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Speaker 1: creepy to them, but Grouper actually turned that offer down.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna imagine that somebody walked really carefully in

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Speaker 1: their same footprints on the way back from the house

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Speaker 1: to the edge of the forest. On Saturday, April one,

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Speaker 1: the younger, because he missed school. On April second, the

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Speaker 1: entire family failed to appear at church, which was extremely unusual.

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Speaker 1: On Monday, April three, because he was once again absent

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Speaker 1: from school, and when the postman attempted to deliver mail

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Speaker 1: that day, he noticed Saturday's mail was still in the box.

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Speaker 1: When nobody answered his knock, he just left that day's mail.

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Speaker 1: A mechanic named Albert Hofner went to the farm on

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Speaker 1: April four to complete some repairs to a piece of

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Speaker 1: machinery that he had been contracted to do, and he knocked.

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Speaker 1: He didn't get any answer, and he saw no one,

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Speaker 1: but he knew what he had to do, so he

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Speaker 1: went ahead and repaired the feeding machine. It took him

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Speaker 1: about five hours, and during that time he saw no one,

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Speaker 1: and he left and he didn't mention to neighbors as

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Speaker 1: he left. Hey, I didn't see any of the groupers,

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Speaker 1: but I was there and I fixed their machine, so

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Speaker 1: let them know. And that's where things started to get

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Speaker 1: a little suspicious. So later in the afternoon of April four,

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Speaker 1: neighbors finally decided to check in on the groupers. Nobody

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Speaker 1: had seen any of them for several days. When nobody

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Speaker 1: answered any of their knocks or calls, they noticed that

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Speaker 1: the barn doors were locked, so they broke in. And

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Speaker 1: before we get to the barn discovery and so truly

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Speaker 1: creepy and probably unsettling for some listeners elements of this

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Speaker 1: story that come out after that, we're gonna pause for

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Speaker 1: a sponsor break so we don't have to drop it

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Speaker 1: right into the middle of any gruesome discussion. So what

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Speaker 1: these neighbors found in this barn that they broke into

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Speaker 1: was horrifying, to say the least. In the barn were

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Speaker 1: four corpses. These were the bodies of Andreas Cazelia, the

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Speaker 1: elder Victoria, and the child Casilia. The bodies had been

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Speaker 1: covered over with straw, and then an old door had

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Speaker 1: been placed on top of it. Further investigation revealed that

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Speaker 1: the maid Maria Baumgartner and the tiny Joseph had been

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Speaker 1: murdered in the farmhouse. A young man was sent by

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Speaker 1: bicycle to von Get to summon the authority. By the

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Speaker 1: time the investigators got there, though, there was already a

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Speaker 1: crowd milling about contaminating evidence. If you like crowds, should

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Speaker 1: always listen to our podcast because this is a recurring theme.

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Speaker 1: The crowd came and they tromped all over everything. When

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Speaker 1: we time travel, that can be our Our entire mission

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Speaker 1: is to go tell crowds not to go contaminate evidence.

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Speaker 1: So allegedly some of the crowd were even in the

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Speaker 1: kitchen making snacks for other people. Yeah, so, needless to say,

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Speaker 1: evidence was going to be pretty dicey at that point.

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Speaker 1: Autopsies were carried out on site in the barn I

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Speaker 1: believe by Dr Johann Baptiste al Muler, and it was

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Speaker 1: determined that on the night of March thirty one, the

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Speaker 1: six people had each been brutally attacked with blows to

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Speaker 1: the head. Despite some of the contamination of the evidence,

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Speaker 1: investigators were able to piece things together enough to come

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Speaker 1: to the conclusion that the four members of the family

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Speaker 1: had been killed in the barn had been lured there

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Speaker 1: one by one in some way as a sort of

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Speaker 1: tramp and kind of lured in and jumped. Andreas's wife,

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Speaker 1: Cazelia and their daughter Victoria also showed signs of strangulation

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Speaker 1: in addition to their head wounds. The younger Cazelia had

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Speaker 1: pieces of her own hair clenched in her right hand.

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Speaker 1: It was postulated that she had not died instantly like

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Speaker 1: the others have, and that that the others had and

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Speaker 1: that she may have torn out her own hair in

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Speaker 1: dismay or shock. The heads of all of the bodies

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Speaker 1: were removed by Dr. Al Mueller and sent to Munich

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Speaker 1: for additional investigation, since that was the area that seemed

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Speaker 1: to have sustained the death blows, and these heads were

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Speaker 1: also allegedly handled by a clairvoyant. Eventually that was brought

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Speaker 1: in by authorities in a desperate attempt to get any

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Speaker 1: sort of lead in the case. Neither the examiners in

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Speaker 1: Munich nor any of the psychics discovered anything new in

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Speaker 1: the handling of the victims heads. Numerous details, aside from

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Speaker 1: the grizzly killings, made the discovery of the Hinokapic murders

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Speaker 1: really unsettling. While the family had been killed on the

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Speaker 1: night of March thirty one, in the days between then

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Speaker 1: and the discovery on April four, neighbors had seen smoke

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Speaker 1: coming from the farmhouse chimney. Additionally, the animals on the

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Speaker 1: farm had been cared for during that time, and the

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Speaker 1: cows had been milked. It was as though the killer

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Speaker 1: or killers made himself at home for a while after

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Speaker 1: brutally dispatching with the family, and given the fact that

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Speaker 1: Gruber had lost a set of keys and found a

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Speaker 1: random newspaper just prior to the murders, it's entirely possible

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Speaker 1: that the killer may have made himself at home for

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Speaker 1: a while before the events on March thirty one. While

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Speaker 1: the robbery was initially suspected as the motive, there were

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Speaker 1: large sums of cash that were easily found in the

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Speaker 1: house and had obviously been left behind. There were also

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Speaker 1: some roof tiles that appeared to have been drawn back

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Speaker 1: into two places, one over the barn roof went on

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Speaker 1: the barn roof and one over the farmhouse. And if

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Speaker 1: I understand descriptions and looked at the photos correctly, there

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Speaker 1: was kind of one big roof that covered the barn,

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Speaker 1: and then there was like a courtyard that had a roof,

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Speaker 1: and then it also continued over to the house, but

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00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: over the barn and over the house, tiles had been

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Speaker 1: removed so that an intruder that was hidden could have

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Speaker 1: had pretty easy views of both the whole farmstead and

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Speaker 1: the family, depending on where they were positioned. So this

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Speaker 1: family had had problems before they were murdered. They were

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Speaker 1: a well known family, but not really that popular in

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Speaker 1: the community. Andreas in particular had a bad reputation for

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Speaker 1: a number of reasons. One was that he was abusive

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Speaker 1: to his wife. He also was believed to have had

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Speaker 1: an incestuous relationship with his daughter Victoria, and many believed

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Speaker 1: that young Joseph was in fact his child. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: easy math to note that Joseph had been born about

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Speaker 1: five years after Victoria's husband had died, so he definitely

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00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: was not a child of that marriage, because remember he

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00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: was two when this happened. And at the time of

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Speaker 1: Joseph's birth, a neighboring farmer named Lauren Schlittenbauer was named

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Speaker 1: as the father of Joseph. But this actually became a

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Speaker 1: really contentious issue and Schlittenbauer actively claimed that Andreas had

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00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: fathered his own grandchild. As for suspects, there's a fairly

395
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: popular theory that Victoria may not have been a widow

396
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: after all, and that her husband committed the murders. Carl

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00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: Gabriel died in the trenches in France during World War One,

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Speaker 1: and you'll occasionally find site that will say things like

399
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Speaker 1: but his body was never recovered. There are plenty of

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Speaker 1: eyewitness accounts of him being killed at the Battle of

401
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: nu Villa on December twel so it's really sensationalism. But unfortunately,

402
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: it's also all too common for the bodies of soldiers

403
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: to go unrecovered in wartime yep uh. There are some

404
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: financial reason that people point to as like what would

405
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: have been his motivator or that he was angry about

406
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Speaker 1: the incest. Again, in a case like this, where there

407
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: is not much to go on, it's very easy to

408
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: fill in the blanks with fanciful thoughts. Another popular theory

409
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 1: names that neighbor Lauren Schlittenbauer as the likely killer due

410
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: to his entanglement with Victoria, because there is some pretty

411
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: significant indicators that he and Victoria did have some sort

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Speaker 1: of sexual relationship, um, and this battle that he had

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Speaker 1: with Andreas over whether or not he had fathered Victoria's

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00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: youngest child. There's also some assertions in there that he

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00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: may have planned to marry Victoria, but that Andreas was

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00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: very jealous of her and would not allow her to

417
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Speaker 1: do so. So there is a lot of drama connected

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Speaker 1: to the Schlittenbauer possibility. The Grouper family and Maria Baumgartner

419
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: were interred at wide Offen, their heads were never returned

420
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Speaker 1: from Munich, and their beliefs to have been lost during

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00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: World War two. Yeah, ironically, I have never really dug

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00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: up much that attaches any sort of creepiness to the

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Speaker 1: loss of these six heads. Uh. People just tend to

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00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: write it off. As you know, world War two, there

425
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: were lots of crazy things happening, and it's entirely possible

426
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: that that was simply destroyed. Uh. What's also interesting is

427
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: that during the initial investigation, no murder weapon was found,

428
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: even though on the autopsy report it does suggest that

429
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: it was a pickaxe. However, when the buildings at the

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00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: farmstead were torn down a year after all of these events,

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00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: a madic was allegedly found and a matic is similar

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00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: to an ice pick. It has a long handle and

433
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: it has a head that has a cutter on one

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00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: end and either an axe blade or a pick on

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00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: the other. A man who sometimes worked as a hand

436
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: on the farm identified the matic as belonging to Gruber.

437
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: It was when he owned and had in fact made,

438
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: was normally stored with the rest of the tools and

439
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: equipment and the tool shed. Yes, so by virtue of

440
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: it and not having been found when everything happened in

441
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: the initial investigation happened, and only being turned up a

442
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: year later when they raised the buildings, it does kind

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00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: of point to it having been out of place, but

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00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: we don't know. And while dozens of people were questioned

445
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: in the case, more than a hundred, no official suspect

446
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 1: was ever named. Uh. This case has been reopened at

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00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: various points throughout the years. It has never been solved, though,

448
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: I believe in two thousand seven there was a university

449
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: group that did a study of it where they tried

450
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: to apply modern forensics to what they had and they

451
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: came up with who they feel is the most likely killer,

452
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: but they did not name that person out of respect

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00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: for the fact that there are surviving relatives of that person,

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00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: and it would kind of just be dredging up something

455
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: that couldn't be proven and could potentially taint the family name.

456
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: But we basically don't know what happened. We don't know

457
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: if someone was living in their attic for six months,

458
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: because remember their previous maid had said quite some time

459
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: before the murder that she heard voices and weird noises,

460
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: or if this was just a one day event that happened.

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00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: I will also tell you this as a warning if

462
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: you go looking for this online. There are some pretty

463
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: graphic images taken of the crime scenes. So if that

464
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: is not something you are comfortable looking at or can stomach,

465
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: I would not google search this particular thing. Don't google

466
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: it at all. Like the thing is that here are

467
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: some images about they're extremely, extremely horrifying, and they are

468
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: literally the first thing that comes up when you google it. Uh.

469
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: It reminds me of creepy stories that keep circulating around

470
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: the Internet at various times, where people are like, I

471
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: just discovered someone who has been secretly secretly living in

472
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: this tiny compartment that was in our walls, and yeah, yeah,

473
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: it is a very creepy thing. I mean, it's kind

474
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: of I think one of the reasons that people, I

475
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: don't want to say love to tell this story because

476
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: that sounds horrid. Fine, but there is a certain fascination

477
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: with it. And part of it is that it combines

478
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: so many of the key elements of like a good

479
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: scary story. You know. One, there is some gruesome murders too.

480
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: There is this possibility that there is a person watching

481
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: people for a long time unnoticed. And three there is

482
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: all of this weird drama around love triangles and you know, paternity,

483
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: and there's just it has all of the ingredients for

484
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: a good drama. Say so much for joining us on

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00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive,

486
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or a Facebook U

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Speaker 1: r L or something similar over the course of the show,

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00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: that could be obsolete now. Our current email address is

489
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: History Podcast at I heart radio dot com. Our old

490
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: health stuff works email address no longer works, and you

491
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: can find us all over social media at missed in

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00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: History and you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts,

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00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: Google podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and wherever else

494
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class

495
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

496
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,600
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Speaker 1: H