1
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in

2
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working

3
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.

4
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: If you listen to this podcast last week, you caught

5
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,680
Speaker 1: part one of an interesting conversation with Greg Cross, CEO

6
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,559
Speaker 1: of Soul Machines, a fascinating venture that blends AI with

7
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: the world of celebrity. Did you miss it, well, go

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 1: back check it out and we'll wait for you right here.

9
00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: But if you did listen, get ready for more right

10
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:49,159
Speaker 1: after these messages. Hi, this is Andrew Wallenstein with Variety's

11
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 1: Strictly Business podcast. If you love Varieties podcasts, you're going

12
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 1: to want to try Variety Intelligence Platform or VIP. It's

13
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 1: a digital subscription to your on Variety dot com for

14
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,679
Speaker 1: industry professionals to dig deeper into analysis and data that

15
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,040
Speaker 1: helps them be smarter about their business. Vi IP just

16
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: launched a great new newsletter and offers more special reports

17
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: than ever, So visit Variety dot com slash VIP save

18
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:23,759
Speaker 1: for a twenty percent discount. We're back with Greg Cross,

19
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,559
Speaker 1: CEO of Soul Machines. Greg, I want to talk about

20
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: a related trend we're seeing out there right now, the

21
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 1: way influencers are using AI to train on audio footage

22
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,959
Speaker 1: of themselves to allow fans to pay like a dollar

23
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: a minute for a I guess call it like a

24
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: voice bot companion.

25
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,319
Speaker 2: I get asked that question a lot, you know, particularly

26
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 2: in markets like Japan where you know animated characters. I

27
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 2: mean they in Japan they sell robots to elderly people

28
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 2: because the lonely so loneliness is a big problem in

29
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 2: the weast, you know, and certainly in this post covid era,

30
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 2: we spend more time talking about loneliness as a mental

31
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 2: health condition. So I think there's some really, I mean,

32
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 2: there's some fascinating opportunities, you know, in you know, in

33
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 2: that you know, in that market.

34
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: As opportunities that you are pursuing.

35
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in terms of in terms of specifically

36
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 2: in terms of loneliness, Yes, in terms of you know,

37
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 2: if I think about, you know, the health care market,

38
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, and a lot of our healthcare is based

39
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: on ambulance at the bottom of a cliff, you know,

40
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 2: so whereas maybe maybe having a a companion who helps

41
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 2: you make better food choices about how how much sugar

42
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 2: you put in your mouth. For example, you know, we've

43
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 2: got diabetes, you know, epidemic looming for most of our

44
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 2: health care systems, and they're not too distant future, so

45
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 2: you know, right, you know, so how how might you

46
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 2: use a health care companion and to help you make

47
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 2: better decisions about you know, managing your your your wellness.

48
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, I mean, these are these are

49
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 2: areas that we are interested in. You know. One of

50
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 2: the things, you know, we've done some incredible you know,

51
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 2: some really really interesting We've had some you know, we

52
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 2: have psychologists who work with us. And one of the

53
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 2: things that we've discovered from a lot of the different

54
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 2: use case and applications. In many use cases, many applications,

55
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 2: we as people prefer to speak to digital people rather

56
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 2: than real people. For the very very simple reason was

57
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: when we speak to real people, we always fear judgment.

58
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 2: You know, an example I always use here as in

59
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 2: the education system. We all when we go to high school,

60
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 2: we attempt to learn another language French or Spanish or

61
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 2: you know, or Mandarin or Japanese whatever, but very very

62
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 2: few people graduate high school fluent in that language. And

63
00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 2: the reason for that is, you know, we all process

64
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 2: language and texts at different speeds. And so when we're

65
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,080
Speaker 2: sitting in our you know, a Spanish class, and you know,

66
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 2: we might ask one question of the teacher, but at

67
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 2: the end of the day, we fear judgment of the teacher.

68
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 2: We even fear the judgment of our peer group even

69
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 2: more so. I imagine having a digital language shooter who

70
00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 2: doesn't care whether you do the same leston ten times

71
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 2: or ask the same question one hundred times. So, you know,

72
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,840
Speaker 2: these are some of the really really interesting fields that

73
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 2: we can get into.

74
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: I mean, there's profound implications. But I also I bring

75
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 1: him back to celebrity because I listen to this and

76
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, so Angelina Jolie could teach me French. Oh,

77
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 1: angelinae Julie could be my virtual girlfriend. Like are you

78
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,080
Speaker 1: thinking at that level or yeah? Different lanes?

79
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, you know, I'm sure, you know, I'm

80
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,720
Speaker 2: sure Angelina doesn't want to be in the business. I've

81
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,839
Speaker 2: read to get digital twin out as a girlfriend to

82
00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 2: you know, and that's a decision she has to make

83
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 2: for it's her name, it's her likeness, her image, her brand,

84
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 2: So they might let's be really really clear about that.

85
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 1: So but you see I wonder if the next generation,

86
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 1: let's say, the generation after the next generation of stardom,

87
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 1: stardom could be redefined as the virtual girl, the popular

88
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 1: virtual girl, as most.

89
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 2: Of the movies star. I mean, oh, look, of course,

90
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 2: and as you've already highlighted, we've already seen some of us.

91
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 2: I mean I talked about lou of Margo as a

92
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 2: digital influencer, you know, and thirty million followers. I mean,

93
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of celebrities would be really happy.

94
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,119
Speaker 2: Real life celebrities would be happy to have thirty million

95
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,039
Speaker 2: followers on social media, so it exists in real life,

96
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 2: you know. You know, we we've already seen the emergence

97
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 2: of the reality TV stars, you know, you know, as

98
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 2: reality TV became a big media form factor for us

99
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 2: in the last couple of decades. You know, completely different

100
00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,279
Speaker 2: type of you know, completely different to the tradition or

101
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,160
Speaker 2: Hollywood content that's been that's been produced. So I mean this,

102
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 2: I mean, these you know, there are you know, these

103
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 2: are variations and of the same of the themes that

104
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 2: we have seen before. You mean, but you know, you

105
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 2: get you do get to make a choice, you know,

106
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 2: the where the line gets drawn and where you know,

107
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 2: and we've already seen you know, we're already having debate

108
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 2: about this, you know, the the world of deep fake videos,

109
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: you know, which is you know, we've already seen a

110
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,840
Speaker 2: lot of unethical behavior in the space already. You know,

111
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 2: even though you know the IP laws and name likeness

112
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 2: and image laws protect people, you know, when you know

113
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 2: what we've seen with deep fake video, you know the

114
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,440
Speaker 2: bad actors in that space that they will go and

115
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 2: rip off, you know, a celebrity and literally put words

116
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 2: in their mouth, you know, And so you know, I mean,

117
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 2: you know that's you know, that's an that's an area

118
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 2: that is you know, we're going to see more and

119
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 2: more of that stuff in this world because you know,

120
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,160
Speaker 2: deep fake video to as literally are available to anybody

121
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,160
Speaker 2: and everybody today.

122
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,159
Speaker 1: So but how are you fundamentally different than a deep

123
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,520
Speaker 1: fake video soul machines? I mean, is it the same

124
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 1: thing socially? I mean I know that you you I'm

125
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 1: talking about technologically, I know that.

126
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 2: You technology, it's a different thing because if you think

127
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 2: of deep fake video, you're taking existing video content to

128
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,600
Speaker 2: create new video content. See so it's still recorded content.

129
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 2: So you know, if you're watching a deep fake video

130
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. We've all seen the Barack Obahama deep

131
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 2: fake video. You can smile at that and wave it

132
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 2: and jump up and down, and you know he's just

133
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 2: going to keep saying what he's been told to say.

134
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 2: So that's video content. It's you know, I mean, if

135
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 2: you think about it in the sort of the storytelling construct,

136
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,400
Speaker 2: that's what they call we call linear content. You know

137
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 2: it's going to have a start of, you know, a performance,

138
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 2: and an end to the performance, and the performance will

139
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 2: be the same no matter how many times you play it.

140
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,160
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about is every conversation you have with

141
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 2: a digital mail will be a different one. You know,

142
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 2: everyone could be different. The conversation I have with digital

143
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 2: Melow will be completely different to the conversation you have

144
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:09,559
Speaker 2: with digital Mellow.

145
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 1: But I hear that, and I worry not necessarily about

146
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 1: soul machines, in particularly yourself. But it's like, in a way,

147
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,280
Speaker 1: you're describing something that's even more powerful than a deep fake,

148
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: in the sense that it's interactive. So couldn't someone take

149
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,559
Speaker 1: this technology and use it for forces of evil? Shall

150
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 1: we say? Where the the autonomous animation has an evil agenda?

151
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, but look, yeah, I mean is it

152
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 2: you know, will it happen to us? So, yes, it will.

153
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it is inevitable. I mean you know, I

154
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 2: mean look at the end, you know, here's the thing.

155
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:46,200
Speaker 1: It.

156
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,719
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter which technology you look at.

157
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 2: You know, any technology that we've invented, the vast majority

158
00:08:54,040 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 2: of us use that technology for good. Yeah. But any

159
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,679
Speaker 2: technology that we can think of that is ever we've

160
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 2: ever invented, there have always been small percentage of the

161
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 2: population who are bad actors, you know, who want to

162
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 2: use it to rip people off or to you know so,

163
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 2: and that's a human trait that exists in the real world.

164
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 2: It will certainly exist in the digital people world, in

165
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 2: the world of artificial intelligence as well. And that's you know,

166
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 2: that's why the debate around regulation and how we want

167
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 2: to manage it and how our governments are going to

168
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,679
Speaker 2: enforce regulation around that. That's why that debate is so

169
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 2: important at this point in time, because you know, we

170
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 2: haven't seen a technology that we've invented as human beings

171
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 2: that has not been used for bad reasons.

172
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 1: And I'm not ascribing you know, negative evil intentions to you,

173
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: but I do wonder when you look at what deep

174
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 1: fake artists sort of speak, are able to get away

175
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,680
Speaker 1: with in terms of well, we'll just you know, rip

176
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 1: off Tom Cruise's likeness and do this. Does a part

177
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: of you say, well, why are we bothering to get

178
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,640
Speaker 1: authorized anything we could?

179
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, I mean, look, I mean all I

180
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 2: can say is yeah, I mean when you talk about

181
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 2: the world of celebrity, you know, I mean, you you

182
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 2: rip off a celebrity, You're gonna have Hollywood lawyers Burt

183
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 2: Fields online. You're gonna have Hollywood lawyers online one, you know,

184
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 2: pretty damn quick. So you know, I mean, I mean

185
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,079
Speaker 2: the simple reality is the the IP protection and the

186
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 2: name and likeness and image protection. You know, the legal

187
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 2: frame framework for that is pretty good already. So yeah,

188
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 2: I mean, if you rip off the likeness of a

189
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 2: famous celebrity, you're gonna have people coming down on you

190
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,640
Speaker 2: really hard, really really quickly.

191
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 1: So in terms of you know, when I think about

192
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: this comparison to deep fakes, also when I think about

193
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: the virtual mellow, I would argue and you tell me

194
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong that I'll never And then I think

195
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 1: you're saying this virtual mellow, I'm never going to look

196
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 1: at him and say that's the real Mellow, especially because

197
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,680
Speaker 1: he's making clear that it's not the real Mellow. But

198
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 1: are you deliberately staying in what they call that uncanny

199
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: valley where you know, or will the technology get to

200
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: a place where I really won't be able to tell

201
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:17,000
Speaker 1: the difference?

202
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? Without it, Look, without a doubt, the technology will

203
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 2: continue to improve and the differences between digital Mellow and

204
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 2: real Mellow will will get less and less and less.

205
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the uncanny valley and the way

206
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 2: we think about the uncanny valley because you know digital

207
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 2: Mellow is you know, you can tell it's a digital

208
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 2: version of Mellow. Sure, and we're clear that it's digital

209
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 2: vision of Mellow. But the uncanny value, you know, when

210
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 2: you when you think about I mean, it's it's a

211
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 2: very subjective test. So the way we think about it is,

212
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 2: is that digital character good enough to form an emotional

213
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 2: connection with you as a real person. And you know,

214
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,239
Speaker 2: one of the you know, the research and the analysis

215
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,680
Speaker 2: we do of the digital people we create, either for

216
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 2: brands or in the world of celebrities is yes, we

217
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 2: are you know a lot of people, the majority of people,

218
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 2: the vast majority of people do feel capable, do feel

219
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 2: like they have emotionally connected with digital mellow as in

220
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 2: the example that we have, So you know, that would say,

221
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 2: you know, we've crossed the uncanny valley. It's still not perfect,

222
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 2: but we have crossed that uncanny valley because that emotional

223
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,599
Speaker 2: connection is critical. I mean, if you look at c

224
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 2: g I movies we love and c GI movies that

225
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 2: we don't, you know, those that were the blockbust, the successes,

226
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 2: and those that weren't. It all came down to the

227
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 2: connection we felt to these made up characters, these made

228
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 2: up CGI characters. So that's you know, there's there's you know,

229
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: while it's the subject of measure, there is you know,

230
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,680
Speaker 2: you know something we increasingly want to understand the science

231
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 2: behind it.

232
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 1: You know, I can't believe we've made it this far

233
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,319
Speaker 1: into the conver station without using the M word metaverse,

234
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 1: the metaverse, because when I think about what the and

235
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation the week that Apple came out

236
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 1: with Vision Pro and obviously you know metas out there

237
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: and all that, it seems to me that when I,

238
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 1: for instance, experienced digital mellow on you know, Instagram or Twitter,

239
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 1: that's not really where these digital you know, people are

240
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 1: going to really flower. It's going to be in a

241
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,280
Speaker 1: metaverse environment. But where is you know, the metaverse really

242
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,440
Speaker 1: isn't here yet, and some people are saying like it's

243
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 1: never going to be here.

244
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 2: So what does that mean to you? Yeah, I guess,

245
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 2: I mean, so, you know, this year we're all talking

246
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 2: about artificial intelligence last year. Last year was metaverse, and

247
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 2: and we have three and cryptocurrency, so you know, but yeah, look,

248
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 2: I mean the metaverse. You know, just because it's you know,

249
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,679
Speaker 2: it's not cool anymore, doesn't mean it's going to not happen.

250
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm old enough to remember the dot com

251
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 2: melt down, sure, you know, I can remember back in

252
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 2: those days. You know, people were shorting Amazon and saying,

253
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 2: you know, Amazon will be dead just like the rest

254
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 2: of the dotcom companies. Well here we are twenty plus

255
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,720
Speaker 2: years later, and Jeff Bezos and Amazon. You know, Jeff

256
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 2: Bezos is one of the richest guys in the world

257
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 2: in Amazon's one of the big is the biggest retailer

258
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 2: on the planet. So you know, so the metaverse hasn't

259
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 2: gone away, you know, you know, we've got past the

260
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 2: hype cycle that we had. You know where we all

261
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 2: got over excited about it last year and we're now

262
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 2: into that. You know, how do we build you know,

263
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,160
Speaker 2: what are the building blocks of that metaverse experience? You know,

264
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 2: one of the really really important things is artificial intelligence

265
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 2: is an incredibly important building block in the creation of

266
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 2: these these digital worlds of the future. You know, what

267
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 2: we saw from you know, what we've seen from Meta

268
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 2: and the Horizon's World experience, and you know the marketing

269
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,640
Speaker 2: videos we saw with the Vision pro announcement from Apple

270
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,080
Speaker 2: is you know, we saw avatars that we create that

271
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 2: we control in the meta So I call that a

272
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 2: form of human puppeteering. So we can walk around in

273
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 2: a in a room with our friends and we can

274
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 2: interact with each other. But those types of human puppeted

275
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: avatars when we're not there, you know, when we're off

276
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 2: doing something in the real world, how avatar is a debt.

277
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 2: There are no utility at that point in time. And

278
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 2: that's where technology like ours, and you know, in conjunction

279
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 2: with the synthetic voice, the AI voice technology, we can

280
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 2: create digital workits, you know, that can exist in the

281
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 2: metaverse and and and do business in the metaverse while

282
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 2: you know, while you know, we're off doing something else.

283
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 2: You know, when I go shopping in a three D

284
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 2: experience in the future, you know, you know, I will

285
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 2: have you know, there will be digital shopping assistants who

286
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 2: are there to emotionally engage with me and connect with me.

287
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 2: Or maybe I'm a vi P customer and I get

288
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 2: to speak to the digital brand ambassador a digital version,

289
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 2: George Kloue, because I'm a VIP customer and George has

290
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: an avatar that that particular brand has hired to represent

291
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 2: them in the metaverse. So these are the sorts of

292
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 2: exciting things that you know are still yet to come.

293
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 2: I think of the metaverse as being an all encompassing

294
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 2: digital world. You know, so you know Mellow. Yes, we

295
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 2: promote Mallow on social media because that's where people that's

296
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 2: where the eyeballs are today. But you know, you can

297
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 2: you know, Mellow will exist in websites, Mellow will exist

298
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,800
Speaker 2: in e commerce stores, Mellow will exist in kiosks. Imagine

299
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, a world in the future where you walk

300
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 2: into you know, see your favorite basketball gameplay, and you know,

301
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 2: digital Mellow is there in a kiosk, you know, and

302
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 2: you're asking questions about what's what do you think is

303
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 2: going to happen in the game tonight? Mallow, I mean,

304
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 2: so all of these digital worlds, and just because you know,

305
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 2: the metaverse's next instantiation and it's construct or the concept,

306
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 2: you know, every digital world I think is contiguous. I

307
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 2: don't see the smartphone going away, you know, anytime soon,

308
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,679
Speaker 2: you know, you know, I mean, you know, the Apple

309
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 2: Vision pro announcement was incredible. There's some amazing technologies which

310
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 2: surprised us, you know, and that's fantastic. So we're seeing

311
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 2: some interesting breakthroughs, will be it at a high watering

312
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 2: price point at this point in time, you know. So

313
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 2: the smartphone is not going to go away anytime soon.

314
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 2: So for me, it becomes how you can you know,

315
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,640
Speaker 2: how your digital people, how your digital experiences can move

316
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,920
Speaker 2: seamlessly between the two D Internet and smartphone enabled world

317
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 2: of today into the three D you know, headsee it,

318
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 2: you know, the classes world of the future and back.

319
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more with Greg Cross, CEO of

320
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 1: Soul Machines in just a moment. Hi, this is Andrew

321
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,440
Speaker 1: Wallenstein with Varieties strictly Business podcast. If you love Varieties podcasts,

322
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 1: you're going to want try Variety Intelligence platform or VIP.

323
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: It's a digital subscription tier on Variety dot com for

324
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,199
Speaker 1: industry professionals to dig deeper into analysis and data that

325
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,959
Speaker 1: helps them be smarter about their business. VIP just launched

326
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: a great new newsletter and offers more special reports than ever,

327
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: So visit Variety dot com slash vip save for a

328
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:30,240
Speaker 1: twenty percent discount. We are back with the CEO of

329
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: Soul Machines. So your business is not dependent on the

330
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 1: metaverse starting tomorrow Nope, which is great, But what you know,

331
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 1: is it tough to plan for the future of your

332
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 1: business when I think it's still unclear even if you

333
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 1: believe in your heart of hearts that the metaverse is

334
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: gonna happen, when is it going to happen?

335
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and yeah, I mean. We have an incredible,

336
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 2: you know, rapidly growing business in the digital worlds that

337
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 2: we have today. You can talk to digital people off

338
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 2: your smartphone today, you know, and we're you know, we're

339
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 2: embedding digital people and webs websites, e commerce stores, smartphone apps,

340
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: you know, because brands are looking for new ways to

341
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 2: create that emotional connection, that brand connection in today's digital world.

342
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 2: So it's a huge space as it exists today. Every

343
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 2: every executive, every manager, literally every employee and any business

344
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 2: in the world is now thinking today they weren't three

345
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 2: months ago. They are thinking about how AI can make

346
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 2: them more productive. Kids at college, you know, are thinking

347
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 2: about how they can use chat GPT to help them

348
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 2: do their homework or write their essays and do their assignments.

349
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: I mean, so the whole world is now thinking about,

350
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, in today's digital world, not before, way before

351
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: the metaverse. People are thinking about, you know, how artificial

352
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: intelligence is going to change the productivity. And we've seen,

353
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: you know, some people who are way smarter than me

354
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: come out and say this is the biggest productivity shift

355
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 2: for industry, you know since the PC was invented, and

356
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: they're right, you know, so we will see enormous productivity gains.

357
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 2: So the digital worlds of today are going to evolve,

358
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: you know, incredibly quickly over the next and the breath

359
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 2: is taking. Speed with which we're seeing things change at

360
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 2: the moment is amazing. So you know, we're not nobody's

361
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: sitting here waiting for the metaverse to happen. But you know,

362
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 2: the building blocks of the metaverse, the metaverse, you know,

363
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 2: despite the fact that it's not cool this year. It's

364
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: still growing. I mean, there are still billions of dollars

365
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: being you know, spent by consumers and metaverse applications and

366
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: big brand advertisers who you know who who are who

367
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 2: are taking a long term view of how this will

368
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: evolve and how they connect with the generation of people

369
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 2: who will grow up, you know, using the metaverses their

370
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 2: primary digital platform in the future. So yeah, it's you know,

371
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: it's I don't have a perfect crystal ball any better

372
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 2: than anybody else's, so but yeah, the build, you know,

373
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 2: it continues to build, It continues to grow. I mean,

374
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 2: the one thing I'd say to people, you know, there

375
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 2: were plenty of people bedding against Jeff Bezos back in

376
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, and yet you know, you know,

377
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: the Internet came, you know, became a bigger and bigger

378
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 2: part of our lives, you know. I mean, if you

379
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 2: think about the initial dot com revolution, you know, in

380
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 2: the dot com you know, that's that of what late nineties.

381
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 2: You know, we had the dot com bubble bast in

382
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 2: two thousand and one. It wasn't until two thousand and seven.

383
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 2: When when when when a company that we've just been

384
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: talking about created the device that democratized the Internet for everybody,

385
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 2: the smartphone. Yeah, so you know, so yeah, I mean

386
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: that was you know, that was six years six seven

387
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 2: years later. So yeah, I mean there's lots of steps

388
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: to come in.

389
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: So but with your eye on the future, do you

390
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 1: worry that, Okay, the matter of let's say it starts

391
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: in full flower next year. Do the gate keepers of

392
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: that experience, let's say it's meta, let's say it's Apple,

393
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: could they sort of look to sole machines and A

394
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: maybe they want to acquire you. B maybe they don't

395
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: want to acquire you, And just as the way they

396
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: sort of tend to co opt to other people as

397
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: businesses that they think could be a threat, maybe they're like, yeah,

398
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: to be this part of the metaverse, you're gonna need

399
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: to license our own sort of digital Like so, how

400
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: do you is there? Do you have concerns about that?

401
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,239
Speaker 1: I mean, look, of course, and that that is the

402
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: entrepreneur's journey. There's certainly the tich entrepreneurs journey, you know,

403
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: I mean you know, the yeah, the big platform guys,

404
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: the big guys, they see it, rules, they see standards,

405
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, they decide who gets access and who doesn't

406
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: get excess. So yeah, I mean, that's that's part of

407
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: the challenge of building business like soul machines. You have

408
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: to figure out how you make yourself valuable to those people,

409
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: how you position yourselves in those worlds. You know, how

410
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: we you know, I mean, you know, how we can

411
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: use different parts of these technologies. You know, my job

412
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: as CEO and as a co founder is to create

413
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: value for my shareholders, the people that have trusted me

414
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: with their money, you know. So you know that that's

415
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: the constant you know, that's one of the constant challenges.

416
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: I'm just not worrying about where the next big tech

417
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: breakthrough was coming from. I've got to sit there and

418
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: worry about you know, who the players are and how.

419
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 2: You know, it's like playing chess on multiple levels. Well,

420
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 2: it feels like it's playing chess on multiple levels. And

421
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: then you throw in the schizophrenic world that is the

422
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: tech sector. I mean, the tech sector has just been

423
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: from a capital market point of view, has been through

424
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: the biggest adjustments in the last biggest downturn since the

425
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: dot com drop, you know, the dot com bubble burst

426
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and when last year was the

427
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: biggest downturn in the tech industry, and yet all of

428
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: a sudden, almost unexpectedly, you know, we've got this whole

429
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: AI movement and trend for foots's minutes. I mean, frankly,

430
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: it's been huge for us. It's been you know, we

431
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 2: find out so so as a company. That's you know,

432
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: we're six years old as a company, so we've been

433
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: building out. You know, we've been Mark has been building

434
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: his tick for ten years. We've been productizing it and

435
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: marketing it for the last six years. All of a

436
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: sudden we find ourselves riding away that we didn't even

437
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 2: expect to be writing this year.

438
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: One last question. You you know, we've talked about a

439
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: lot of different companies here comparisons to you know, Amazon

440
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: and Meta. This one's a weird one, but stay with me.

441
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: When I think about the ultimate future of where soul

442
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: machines can go, I think about Netflix, which you might

443
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: say why, And the reason I do is think about

444
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: the arc of Netflix, which was for so long a

445
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: disc or DVD buying mail business and at some point

446
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: made this pivot or you know, jump in to streaming

447
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: and took it to the next level. I'm wondering whether

448
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: in the in the fullest sense of success for what

449
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: soul machines could be. Whether you know, let's say it's

450
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: twenty thirty two and it's no longer about animation, it's

451
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: about machines, it's about robots.

452
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: Are you thinking that far? I have to know. Yeah, yeah,

453
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, you know, because I mean, you know,

454
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: our digital brain and our virtual nervous system. Today we're

455
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: animating a CGI character, so you know, in the future

456
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: maybe it will be a robot. I mean the challenge

457
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: for robots is, you know, the human face is incredibly complicated,

458
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 2: you know, and the number of you know, not just

459
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: the skin textures and the you know, and the way

460
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: the light reflects off it, but the way our muscles

461
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: move and the way we express motion. That's a really, really,

462
00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: really challenging robotics problem. I mean, we've seen simple robots

463
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: like Sophia I guess you know, who became a citizen

464
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: of Saudi Arabia at some point in time. I mean,

465
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: that's interesting pr type stuff, and we think about that.

466
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean yes, I mean, when you create

467
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: this concept of a digital brain and this concept of

468
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: autonomous animation and a virtual nervous system. You know, you

469
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: have to think about, well, at some point, is there

470
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 2: a step into rather than being a digital character, it

471
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: becomes a three D character, a real world character, like

472
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: a humanoid robot, you know, like the robot the robots

473
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: that were envisaged in Westwold and out the world of

474
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: science fiction. And you know, we you know, and great

475
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: great science, great storytelling. You know, we think we're going

476
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: off and to have our ultimate fantasy holiday and it

477
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: turns into our worst nightmare. But you know, we're back

478
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: to the weird paradox of humans who are entertained by

479
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: the fact that robots are going to come and kill

480
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: us and take over our lives again. So it's yeah,

481
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we have to think about it. I mean,

482
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: you know, and if you think of you know, you know,

483
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 2: I mean you think of the entertainment parks that exists.

484
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: I mean, they use animatronics today, that's right, to bring

485
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: characters to life, you know, whether it might be a

486
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 2: dinosaur or a King Kong type character. So we already

487
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: you know, we have you know, I mean, some of

488
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 2: that exists today. So you can go into an entertainment

489
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: park or a theme park and you can have an

490
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 2: experience with an Animatron chronic tribe one and if you

491
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: think about the components on that, yes, there's a whole

492
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 2: bunch of mechanical systems that you know, I mean, they

493
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 2: can do certain things, but the data that drives the

494
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: things that they can do is very similar to the

495
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: sort of data that's captured using motion capture systems and

496
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: played back on top of c GI characters. So you know,

497
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: you can see that there are you know, the building

498
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 2: blocks you know from today already exists. That's where it goes,

499
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, as we move into the future.

500
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: Well I don't know about you, but listening to this,

501
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: my brain is spinning. I'm sure my listener's brains are

502
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: going to be spinning. Greg, thank you so much for

503
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: coming in and talking about Seul Machines that this is

504
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: going to be an interesting company to watch.

505
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's been an

506
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: absolute blasting year.

507
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 1: This has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in

508
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: next week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media

509
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: movers and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to

510
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review

511
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: in Apple podcasts and let us know how we're doing