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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: You said something very profound and very deep, and it

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Speaker 2: was about it was stress related. You said, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: the stress, it was the relationship. Can you can you

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Speaker 2: say that again? Because because I thought that was really good,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to miss that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely so. In the world of stress, what we

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Speaker 3: know is that the events in our lives have nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with our level of stress. It's our relationship

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Speaker 3: or our perception, our perspective on the events in our

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Speaker 3: life that determines whether or not we have a stress reaction.

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Speaker 3: And so what I've discovered in my experience is and

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Speaker 3: the experience of the thousands of people that I've worked with,

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Speaker 3: is that when we get ourselves out of the fighter

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Speaker 3: flight mode by reconnecting to the body, which is the

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Speaker 3: gateway to the present moment experience, when we get out

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Speaker 3: of that fear mode, we start interpreting the events in

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Speaker 3: our lives very, very differently in a much more positive way.

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Speaker 3: And so an event or an experience that might have

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Speaker 3: caused stress before because we were stuck in the fear mode,

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Speaker 3: would no longer cause us stress. And there have been

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Speaker 3: a number of research studies out there that have proven

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Speaker 3: this to be a fact, and it's something that we

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Speaker 3: can also easily prove ourselves just by practicing that present

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Speaker 3: moment experience and learning firsthand and experiencing firsthand that in fact,

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Speaker 3: things that used to stress us out don't anymore because

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Speaker 3: we're not carrying that fear around with us, and so

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Speaker 3: that's the big deal. That's really the big deal is

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Speaker 3: getting rid of the fear, and then we lose stress,

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Speaker 3: and then the only time we have stress is when

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Speaker 3: there is a real reason for it. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: our survival is truly being threatened, we want to have

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Speaker 3: that ability to go into fight or flight, to have

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Speaker 3: the fear, to have all of that stuff to mobilize

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Speaker 3: ourselves to allow us to survive as well as possible.

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Speaker 3: But in fact, most of the time when people are

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Speaker 3: in that fight or flight mode, there is no true survival.

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Speaker 3: It's just a mystery as to as to why this

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Speaker 3: is happening on such a mass scale across the entire planet.

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Speaker 2: Is some of it though?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 2: Hmm? So when it's survival, it's not it's not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: a bear's coming and it's going to kill me. It's

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Speaker 2: not that kind of thing. It's it seems like, and

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Speaker 2: tell me where I'm off the path of what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: But and I should, you know, be really nice about it.

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Speaker 2: But is it? Is it more of like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: in a situation and I just don't know what to

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Speaker 2: do because I was never educated on so ah, I'm

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Speaker 2: either going to run or I'm gonna step into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the term is fight, flight or freeze. That's

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Speaker 3: that's the full term that we use. And what it

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Speaker 3: is is people when when our nervous systems get stuck

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Speaker 3: in that fight or flight mode, it doesn't take much

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Speaker 3: to get us going into that full blown experience of fear,

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Speaker 3: and we imagine that the saber tooth tiger is coming

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Speaker 3: at us, but it really isn't, and it becomes it

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Speaker 3: can become a very generalized kind of fear. There doesn't

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Speaker 3: have to be a specific incident that puts us into that.

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Speaker 3: If your nervous system is stuck in that fight or

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Speaker 3: flight mode, then something as simple as somebody cutting you

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Speaker 3: off on the road and it puts you right into

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Speaker 3: road rage. And road rage is simply one of the many,

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Speaker 3: many forms of expression of fight or flight, And so

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Speaker 3: the key is to once again get that nervous system

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Speaker 3: out of the fight fight or flight mode, get rid

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Speaker 3: of the fear, and then start experiencing life in a

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Speaker 3: whole new way, a way where you're not interpreting people

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Speaker 3: and events and things as being a threat to you.

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Speaker 3: And most of this is going on on the subconscious

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Speaker 3: or unconscious level.

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Speaker 2: Do you see some of that as learn though, because

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Speaker 2: let's say when you're a little kid, your dad would

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Speaker 2: always scream at everybody when you were driving a church

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Speaker 2: in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, absolutely, it's you're correct, Uh, it is learned.

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Speaker 3: They become negative patterns that get fed in stone over

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Speaker 3: a long period of time. Any kind of trauma like that,

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Speaker 3: if you're not taught how to deal with the trauma,

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Speaker 3: which is to allow yourself to fully experience it by

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Speaker 3: being in your body, allow yourself to fully experience. Otherwise

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Speaker 3: it stays with you until you do allow yourself to

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Speaker 3: experience and you allow yourself to process it, then it

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Speaker 3: goes away. So that's the key there. And then what

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Speaker 3: we've also learned is that kind of trauma can get

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Speaker 3: passed along genetically, and so really genetically, Yeah, what we

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Speaker 3: find is people are being born stuck in that fight

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Speaker 3: or flight mode, and that's their parents or their grandparents

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Speaker 3: or whatever have been traumatized and it actually affects the

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Speaker 3: DNA the genes, and so those genes get passed along

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Speaker 3: and then you become prone to having that kind of

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Speaker 3: stress experience.

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Speaker 2: How did they prove that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, the science of genetics has come away. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, genetics to me is so fascinating. If I

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Speaker 3: were going to go back to school again, I would

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Speaker 3: probably study genetics. We're going to have some of the

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Speaker 3: greatest breakthroughs in health and wellness through the field of genetics.

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Speaker 3: And the important thing to know about genes is that

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Speaker 3: you can, even though you're born with a particular tendency

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Speaker 3: to go in one direction or another, you can influence

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Speaker 3: the way that genes express themselves. That's called the field

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Speaker 3: of epigenetics. And so we do have the ability to

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Speaker 3: influence things that we've been born with. And one of

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Speaker 3: the ways, I believe it or not, I hope I'm

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Speaker 3: not sounding like a broken record, but one of the

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Speaker 3: ways to influence genes that way is through the practice

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Speaker 3: of mindfulness. And there have been many studies that have

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Speaker 3: shown that the ability to be in the present moment

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Speaker 3: influences genes in a very positive way. And when you

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Speaker 3: have tendencies, negative tendencies, it can actually change those negative

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Speaker 3: tendencies and turn them into a positive experience for you. So,

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Speaker 3: even though you've been born perhaps with that genetic predisposition predisposition,

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Speaker 3: there is a definite, proven way to reverse that and

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Speaker 3: mitigate the damage that kind that that kind of predisposition

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Speaker 3: can cause for you.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Well, one of the things I remember too that

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Speaker 2: you did and I thought was just fantastic, is you

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Speaker 2: were teaching this. Uh you know, there's always coaches and

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Speaker 2: teachers and this and that in life, and but you

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Speaker 2: are actually teaching this to students and getting getting this

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Speaker 2: into school programs, right in hospitals.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct, that's cool. Yeah, I am. Back

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Speaker 3: in the late nineties, I did really the first research

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Speaker 3: program using mindfulness in schools, and it was a two

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Speaker 3: year program. I partnered with Arizona State University to do

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Speaker 3: this study and I taught first, second, and third grader's

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Speaker 3: mindfulness for two years and the results of the experience

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Speaker 3: of the study were very, very positive. It created a

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Speaker 3: ripple right across the planet and The way I understand

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Speaker 3: it from what people have told me is that study

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Speaker 3: inspired people and motivated them to bring mindfulness into their schools.

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Speaker 3: So now we're seeing mindfulness being taught in schools all

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Speaker 3: over the world and it's a big deal. And I

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Speaker 3: maybe ten twelve years ago I decided to partner with

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Speaker 3: a nonprofit organization that brings mindfulness to the schools in

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Speaker 3: a very scalable way. It's very affordable, and it's virtual

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Speaker 3: because of all it is is it's audio, pre recorded

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Speaker 3: audio practices, eight to ten minute practices, and so they

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Speaker 3: kind of put me in charge of overseeing the curriculum,

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Speaker 3: and I made sure that the curriculum was compliant with

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Speaker 3: the practice of mindfulness and was simple and direct, and

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Speaker 3: it's been getting great results for us. Right now, we're

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Speaker 3: in front of over three million kids across the country.

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Speaker 3: We recently signed up the entire Los Angeles school District

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Speaker 3: and so that three those three million kids really equates

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Speaker 3: to about four thousand schools and we're growing by leaps

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Speaker 3: and bounds. And it's called inter Explorer, And if people

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Speaker 3: are interested in that sort of thing, you can go

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Speaker 3: to inter explorer dot org and see what the program is.

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Speaker 3: All about, but it's really transformed in a very positive

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Speaker 3: way the lives of millions of kids, and we'll continue

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Speaker 3: to do that moving forward. And so, you know, influencing

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Speaker 3: kids in this positive way has always been a passion

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Speaker 3: of mine.

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Speaker 2: I would love to know the long term studies of

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Speaker 2: how they've turned out along the way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're out there. We have studies behind our program.

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Speaker 3: Our program isn't that old, so I don't know how

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Speaker 3: you define long term, but we do have studies that

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Speaker 3: have measured the kids' experiences over five to ten years.

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Speaker 3: Mindfulness is relatively new, maybe thirty to forty years of

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Speaker 3: popularity in our culture. It's been around in the Eastern

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Speaker 3: culture for thousands of years. It just fairly recently made

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Speaker 3: its way into our Western culture. And the Eastern culture

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Speaker 3: frankly doesn't bother with research and science the way we

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Speaker 3: do in the West, the way we do it in

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Speaker 3: the West. Yeah, experience is Panama, but we also want

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Speaker 3: to have the research and the science behind it so

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Speaker 3: that we know that it's reproducible and that it's real.

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Speaker 3: And so there's that there. And the longer we continue

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Speaker 3: to bring mindfulness into the schools, the longer we will

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Speaker 3: have our team of researchers continue to monitor and look

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Speaker 3: at the longevity of the effects of the program, and

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Speaker 3: as kids grow up and become adults, they will have

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Speaker 3: the benefit of the ability to not get stuck in

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Speaker 3: that fight or flight mode, to stay fully connected to

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Speaker 3: the body and mitigate all of those stress situations that

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Speaker 3: other people fall into because they haven't had the training

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Speaker 3: that's being offered in this program where it's bringing kids

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Speaker 3: to the experience of being present, not just during those

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Speaker 3: eight to ten minute practices, but twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 3: Their whole lives become transformed because of this very very

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Speaker 3: simple practice.

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Speaker 2: Are they liking to do it? Are they tacking it

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Speaker 2: up quickly?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? When I that's one of the things that really

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Speaker 3: amazed me when I was teaching those first, second and

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Speaker 3: third graders, they caught onto it almost immediately. I find

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Speaker 3: and I found then that that kids don't have the

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Speaker 3: all of those experiences that adults are carrying around with them.

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Speaker 3: Kids are pretty much a blank slate at that age

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Speaker 3: relative to adults. Yes they're genetics, and yes they're home

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Speaker 3: situations and trauma opportunities and things like that, but generally speaking,

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Speaker 3: kids are an open book, and they picked up on

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Speaker 3: the practice quickly, and they learned to enjoy it, and

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Speaker 3: it was just a joy to to bring that experience

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Speaker 3: to them.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's like recess, you know, it's not math, it's

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Speaker 2: not Spanish, it's not English, all right, right, In.

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Speaker 3: Fact I put it, I like that. I taught it

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Speaker 3: under the umbrella of physical education because kids that age

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Speaker 3: like to move around a lot, so I taught them

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Speaker 3: how to be present, how to be mindful while moving around,

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Speaker 3: and then that opened the door to be able to

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Speaker 3: teach them the meditation component, where they're learning how to

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Speaker 3: be present in stillness and silence. So the key is

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Speaker 3: to learn how to be present in stillness and silence,

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Speaker 3: but also in activity. So that's how you get the

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Speaker 3: twenty four to seven experience going for you.

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Speaker 2: Did all this start because of your near death experience?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Did? And I know we talked about that a

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Speaker 3: bit last time, and what happened was, well, yes, I

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Speaker 3: did have a near death experience, but that was really

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Speaker 3: the culmination of a lifelong fear of dying. I'm one

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Speaker 3: of those people who were born stuck in that fight

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Speaker 3: or flight mode. I didn't discover it till much later.

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Speaker 3: But I learned later that my mother had a nervous

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Speaker 3: breakdown when she was present when she was pregnant with me.

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Speaker 2: Well, she was present with you too, right, yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: A bit of a Freudian slip worked.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I didn't plan that.

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Speaker 2: That was good. I was with you, I followed you. See,

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Speaker 2: I'm with you. I am in the present with you.

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Speaker 2: I see that we're doing good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so so yeah, I was born that way,

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Speaker 3: fearful of everything, but particularly very very aware of afraid

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Speaker 3: of dying, because that is what we're really afraid of

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Speaker 3: when we go in that fight or flight survival mode.

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Speaker 3: You know. I talk about fear generally, but the fear

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Speaker 3: specifically is the fear of dying, because that's what helps

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Speaker 3: us to survive as humans. So anyway, I was plagued

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Speaker 3: with that growing up, and it wasn't until I was

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Speaker 3: oh gosh, maybe twenty one years old and the process

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Speaker 3: of graduating from college that it all came to a head.

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Speaker 3: I just the fear turned into terror, and I knew

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Speaker 3: that I had to somehow address what was going on

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Speaker 3: because it was really taking me down the wrong road.

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Speaker 3: And it was right at that time, right at that time,

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Speaker 3: that I had that near death experience. I was in

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Speaker 3: a terrible car accident where I flipped my car over

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Speaker 3: ten or twelve times, and I knew I was dying,

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Speaker 3: and I had one of those life review experiences where

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Speaker 3: my life flashed in front of me. I could see

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Speaker 3: everything that had happened, was happening and was going to

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Speaker 3: happen in my life, and I let go of the

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Speaker 3: steering wheel and I just said, this is it. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to die. And of course I didn't to the

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Speaker 3: best of my knowledge. Yeah, I think that you.

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Speaker 2: I can't touch you there. I'm just listening, right, And

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Speaker 2: so after that.

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Speaker 3: Experience, after that near death experience, it was maybe a

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Speaker 3: week later that I went to visit an old friend

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Speaker 3: of mine and she was in the process of studying

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Speaker 3: yoga and the Kabbala. This was in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 3: when these Eastern traditions were just starting to make their

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Speaker 3: way into the Western culture and particularly on the college campuses,

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Speaker 3: which is where I was. I was taking the summer

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Speaker 3: school class. I needed one more class in order to graduate,

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Speaker 3: so I was up there at Syracuse University in college.

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Speaker 3: I had just gotten back from Woodstock and all right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I went to visit an old girlfriend, and I said,

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Speaker 3: we got to talking about my fear of dying for

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Speaker 3: some reason.

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