1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: If you're trying to understand prices in today's day and age,

2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,520
Speaker 1: you have to understand both markets and politics because the

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 1: undercurrents are systemic, whether it comes to energy, electricity, natural gas, oil,

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about bitcoin, even gold today, they're being driven

5
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: by more than just market factors and understand this is

6
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: the key to surviving this. Today, I'm sitting down with

7
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,640
Speaker 1: Marty Benn. He is the host of TFTC. He's been

8
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: creating content for over a decade on the financial markets,

9
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: in the bitcoin space and the energy sector, and we're

10
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 1: going to dive deep into all of things happening around gold,

11
00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,840
Speaker 1: around bitcoin, around energy, around prices and the system that's

12
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: pushing the prices. So it's a great conversation with Marty,

13
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 1: one I've been looking forward to for a really long time.

14
00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 1: So let's got to just jump right into it, all right, Marty,

15
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,120
Speaker 1: thanks for joining today. Good to see you. I want

16
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,519
Speaker 1: to start with something tangible, So we were just talking

17
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,280
Speaker 1: about a chart that Chi Moth had posted on Twitter. Today,

18
00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: I'll have my producer put it up on the screen,

19
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: and they showed how some states are pain way more

20
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 1: for the same basic inputs. So when you think about it,

21
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 1: from like a system's explanation. I mean he's showing red

22
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 1: versus blue, But like, what do you think about policy

23
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 1: mechanisms that drive these prices?

24
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,039
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, just looking at the chart, I

25
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 2: have it up in my another monitor here. Obviously, California

26
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 2: dark blue, New York darkish blue, Massachusetts connectic and New

27
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 2: England very blue. And I'll ask in Hawaii, I'll give

28
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 2: them a break because they're relatively remote areas, but it's

29
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,120
Speaker 2: really I mean state regulations. I know New York especially,

30
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 2: I mean they have the double whammy where they have

31
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: incredible resources under the ground in natural natural gas, but

32
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 2: they refuse to allow industry to drill for it and

33
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 2: pipe it to where it could be turned into electricity.

34
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,640
Speaker 2: They famously shut down the Indian Point nuclear facility that

35
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 2: was on the Hudson, which was providing reliable electricity to

36
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 2: Manhattan for decades. Yeah, I think it all comes down

37
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: to policy. And obviously in California, I mean, you have

38
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 2: a situation where you're not allowed to use coal power.

39
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,320
Speaker 2: You have abundant oil and gas resources under the earth

40
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 2: in that state too, but it's really hard to get

41
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 2: drilling permits and build it to market. So it's a

42
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 2: state manufactured high energy prices because they won't let the

43
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,760
Speaker 2: free market actually flourish.

44
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard. It's hard not to make

45
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: it a political conversation when you can see the demarcation

46
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 1: of the political lines so apparent like this in the

47
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 1: in this case, yeah, in California. Here in Orange County,

48
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean like Huntington Beach, Surf City, USA, Like there's

49
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,519
Speaker 1: still oil rigs, Like you drive around and they still

50
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: have oil rigs pumping, but it's all pretty much been

51
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,560
Speaker 1: driven out of the state. It's crazy.

52
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,239
Speaker 2: I've got a friend, Mike, Mike Umbro who's in California.

53
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 2: I free out Watch County, but he's been trying to

54
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 2: get a drilling permit for oil for i think the

55
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 2: better part of a decade now, and they're making him

56
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 2: run all these like lizard surveys and nonsensical ecological permitting

57
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 2: requirements that make it impossible to actually tap into your resources.

58
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. I watched part of Trump's address to

59
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,839
Speaker 1: Davos yesterday. I don't know how much you got through

60
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: on that, or if at all, but he was talking

61
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: about how he's driving gas prices down across the country.

62
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: And he thinks he'll get him below two dollars a gallon,

63
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, like he did, he said, like in his

64
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 1: first term. But here in California you see like six

65
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: dollars seven dollars gas in some places. So it's like,

66
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 1: from a federal standpoint, if we if we have more

67
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 1: oil and we have more natural gas, you would expect

68
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 1: the prices to come down, and we're producing more oil

69
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: and gas than ever before. But in California and natural

70
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 1: gas prices are up like four or five times.

71
00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny, Mike Umbros, he's trying to drill

72
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 2: in Kern County and now being refreshed of like conversation

73
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 2: in California, especially as it's frustrating because you have all

74
00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 2: those good oil and gas resources under the air there

75
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: and the inability to actually tap into those is driving

76
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 2: the state of California to import oil and gas from

77
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 2: countries like Ecuador, where their ecological processes are much more

78
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 2: disastrous for the environment. And then on top of that,

79
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 2: you're shipping oil and gas on large on large ships

80
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 2: through the ocean, which has consequences for that for that environment.

81
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:33,280
Speaker 2: So it's just complete abdication of common sense. If you will,

82
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,239
Speaker 2: and then you get into the whole requirements for wind

83
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,360
Speaker 2: and solar. And I know for a fact that they're

84
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 2: piping in electricity from Wyoming as well, which is they'll

85
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 2: be produced as coal in Wyoming and they'll transmit it

86
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,720
Speaker 2: to California. But since it's not being produced in California,

87
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,840
Speaker 2: it's technically clean. It's just insane. And then you were

88
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 2: describing the mandate that you can't build any new homes

89
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: with natural gas doves or natural gas, uh sort of.

90
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 1: Gas burning logs. I was telling you about we couldn't

91
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 1: get gas burning logs in California.

92
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 2: And then like, so you're just increasing the electric electricity

93
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 2: burden on the on the grid as well, because you

94
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 2: have to go all these electric power stoves and other

95
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,159
Speaker 2: utilities that could be powered by natural gas or something

96
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,120
Speaker 2: like that. And so you're just increasing the burden on

97
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,840
Speaker 2: the grid and then preventing yourself from actually producing more

98
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: electricity because of some environmental concerns that are being proven

99
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 2: to be completely asinine. As you're mentioning Trump, I think

100
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 2: that was one of his big points to make, is

101
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 2: the abject failure of net zero carbon goals and climate hysteria.

102
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 1: Generally he called it out pretty strong. I mean, he

103
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 1: had some pretty strong words about the green climate scam.

104
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,919
Speaker 1: I think he called and called it, talked about Germany

105
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: committing suicide by shutting down all their nuclear reactors, although

106
00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 1: not the new chancellor, he's trying to bring it back.

107
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 1: He kind of made sure to say that the new

108
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: guy's kind of got to figure it out. But yeah,

109
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: he was, he was, he was. He was pretty blunt.

110
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people like that. That's

111
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: kind of another rabbit hole. I was just gonna say, like, uh,

112
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,600
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting to see that. You know, he's if

113
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: you listen to him. I mean, he was just slamming this,

114
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,480
Speaker 1: this globalist agenda. Why would you sacrifice your own national

115
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: security Germany be dependent on Russia and then try to

116
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: fight a war with them, which obviously doesn't make any sense.

117
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,839
Speaker 1: Brent Johnson I saw he said, like like imagine like

118
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,040
Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks like offshoring their sword manufacturing to their

119
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 1: enemy kind of a thing. But then with all of that,

120
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: like apparently the globalists don't like that, and now like

121
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: Mark Karney and Canada and all those people, now they

122
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 1: just want to align with China.

123
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: So I guess.

124
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: China's better than like interesting.

125
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 2: China spending a lot of money. They'll come in and

126
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,520
Speaker 2: build your Belt and Road initiative if you have it.

127
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 2: And it is a yeah, I was saying before we

128
00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 2: hit record, it's a very interesting inflection point we find

129
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 2: ours in in terms of how fraid the geopolitical situation

130
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 2: is becoming. And I mean it was. It's been funny

131
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 2: observing the reactions to all the speeches coming out of

132
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 2: Davos this week, whether it's Donald Trump's, Howard Lutnix, Scott descent.

133
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: I saw Governor Newsom it was on a fireside chat

134
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: this morning. But it's like it's one movie or it's

135
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 2: like one screen but two different movies. The reactions are

136
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 2: on the polar opposite ends of the spectrum. Depending on

137
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 2: where you lean politically. You have a complete opposite reaction

138
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 2: to other people. Because me personally, I wash what Lutnick

139
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 2: dissent Trump Elon Musk earlier today on stage, and the

140
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 2: way that opposserby Jamie Diamond even called out the globalists. Yeah,

141
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,560
Speaker 2: even yeah, Larry Fink even had about face now that

142
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 2: he's the head of the wef He even said like, hey,

143
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 2: people aren't picking up our message, and I think it's

144
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 2: an important This is an important week for the World

145
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 2: Economic Forum. I think it should go away. But I

146
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,680
Speaker 2: think the fact that the Trump administration and some business

147
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 2: leaders in the US Brian Armstrong was standing up for bitcoin,

148
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 2: it was an important message to send, like, hey, we're

149
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 2: not going down this road of hollowing out our domestic

150
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,680
Speaker 2: manufacturing base and exporting dollars for the sake of having

151
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 2: the world reserve currency. Like our people are struggling and

152
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,200
Speaker 2: we really want to bolster the domestic economy. And I

153
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 2: think the CENT particularly at a very optimistic message, which

154
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 2: is like grow, baby, grow, we can all do this together.

155
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 2: There's a way to individually strengthen our domestic economies and

156
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,679
Speaker 2: the lives of the quality, quality of lives of our

157
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 2: citizens and still work together. We don't need to go

158
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,760
Speaker 2: down the road of pure globalism. You will own nothing

159
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,960
Speaker 2: and be happy. It's obviously not working for people.

160
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I listened to Trump talk, he was talking

161
00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 1: about how kind of the same like abundance mindset. He

162
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: was like, hey, when the US does good, everybody does good.

163
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 1: Like it's not like, hey, we want to do good,

164
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 1: so you can suffer. He's like, no, like, let's all

165
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: do good together as opposed to let's all go suffer together.

166
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,840
Speaker 1: I prefer that. And and I saw Howard Lutnik, who

167
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: sounded amazing. I mean, he's he's so smart, what a

168
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: patriot too. But like al Gore was like trying to

169
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,839
Speaker 1: like call him out from the back of room. I

170
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw that. Al Gore was like heckling him,

171
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,839
Speaker 1: like seriously. I think Howard said something like how many

172
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 1: drinks have you had or something like It's like crazy,

173
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: It's like it's like child's playing. But you mentioned Brian

174
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 1: Armstrong is over there, and he's doing a pretty good

175
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 1: job sort of standing up for you know whatever. We

176
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 1: don't want to call it sor but the crypto industry,

177
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 1: if you will, let's call it like the freedom to

178
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 1: choose what we want for money. And specifically in the US,

179
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: we passed the Clarity Act and the Genius Act, and

180
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 1: it seems the Trump administration, bacent, et cetera, really want

181
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 1: to see stable coins grow. They want for many reasons.

182
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,959
Speaker 1: Congress signed it, Trump signed it, and now the banks

183
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: are fighting it. Right, That's the way it seems to me.

184
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: So what do you think about the Trump administrationcent pushing

185
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 1: stable coins? First of all, and then let's kind of

186
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: get into like why are the banks fighting it.

187
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 2: I mean, the argument that we'll hear for why they're

188
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 2: pushing it is twofold. They want to be innovative, which

189
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 2: I think is earnest. And the second is it's going

190
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 2: to help bolster the treasury market because these stable coin

191
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 2: issuers the need to hold cash like short term debt instruments,

192
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 2: which are typically US treasuries, bills and notes. And I

193
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,959
Speaker 2: think it's a good narrative, but like, is it actually

194
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 2: going to be able to plug the whole of treasury

195
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: demand if foreign nations are dropping treasuries for other assets

196
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 2: like gold and silver. Maybe not. But the other reason,

197
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 2: I think they just want to look tech forward, which

198
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 2: I think makes sense. And obviously I'm a bitcoiner and

199
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 2: I think bitcoin is the best money and it's what

200
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 2: you should save your money. And I don't really think

201
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,360
Speaker 2: there's a pressing need for stable coin adomption amongst American citizens.

202
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 2: We have a pretty robust banking and fintech infrastructure that

203
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 2: works pretty well right now. There are certainly marginal user

204
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 2: experience benefits that come with stable coins. But yeah, I

205
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: think they just want to look tech forward, that they're

206
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 2: being innovative. I do think they would hope that stable

207
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 2: coins get to a market cap that it could actually

208
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 2: begin to materially plug the whole of treasury demand as

209
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: FEIM buyers ditch treasuries for other assets. But to the

210
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,240
Speaker 2: bank's point, like it is interesting watching this battle over

211
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 2: the market structure Act, particularly around the ability of stable

212
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 2: coin issuers to pass on the yield they generate from

213
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 2: holding short term treasuries to the end user. The banks

214
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,599
Speaker 2: do not want them, Yeah, which is just comical, and

215
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 2: I wonder if it will create this this gridlock and

216
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 2: an impasse that they can't get over. Because if stable

217
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,679
Speaker 2: coins are able to offer this, and you have relatively

218
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 2: high yield saving accounts, they can simply download on your

219
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 2: phone and transfer your your Federal Reserve banking system dollars

220
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: in the stable coins and get three to four percent

221
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 2: interest for just holding a stable coin in the wallet.

222
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 2: That's going to be a very very strong shot across

223
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 2: the bow the banking industry, which is not sharing the

224
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,679
Speaker 2: yield of their treasury instruments with their end users.

225
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: Let's Let's break that down a little bit. So what

226
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 1: you're saying is that they sort of want the world

227
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 1: to buy dollars. So then you know Scott is Sent's

228
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,280
Speaker 1: job is to get people to buy treasuries, like that's

229
00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: his job. He's a treasury salesperson. But we may see Venezuela, Argentina, Lebanon, Peru,

230
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 1: whatever I ran, moving to US dollar stable coins, it's

231
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 1: not a big representation of buyers. So it's still not

232
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 1: enough demand for the treasuries, is what you're.

233
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 2: Kind of saying.

234
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: Every day we see headlines about inflation and dead and

235
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: diminishing control over our own money. That's why I always

236
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 1: come back to bitcoin because it's built for generations, it's

237
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: built for legacy. But protecting your bitcoin legacy the right

238
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 1: way is not always simple. It demands discipline, focus, and

239
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 1: the right partner. Now that's why I personally use Unchained Signature.

240
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 1: It's a premium private client service for serious bitcoin holders

241
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 1: who want expert guidance, resilient custody, and an enduring partnership.

242
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: Now Signature, you're paired with your own dedicated account manager,

243
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 1: someone who understands your goals helps you every step of

244
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 1: the way. You're going to get white Glove onboarding, same

245
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,720
Speaker 1: day emergency support, personalized education or reduced trading fees, and

246
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: priority access to exclusive events and features. Unchained collaborative custody

247
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 1: model is designed to provide the same security as the

248
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 1: world's biggest bitcoin custodians, but for those who prefer to

249
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 1: hold their own keys. Now. I've been using and recommending

250
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 1: unchained for years. I even got my parents to set.

251
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 2: Up with them.

252
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: So if you want to get set up, check out

253
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: Unchained signature at unchained dot com, slash mark Moss, and

254
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 1: as a loyal listener, I got a discount for you.

255
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: Just use code Moss ten at checkout to get ten

256
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: percent off your first year. Because your bitcoin isn't just

257
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 1: for life, it's for generations.

258
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was actually writing about Tether's Q three at

259
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,480
Speaker 2: the station. Obviously Q four isn't come out yet and

260
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 2: should come out. Q four to twenty twenty five should

261
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 2: come out probably next week or the week after. But

262
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 2: as at the end of Q three twenty twenty five,

263
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 2: Teather just surpassed South Korea as the seventeenth largest holder

264
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 2: of US treasuries in the world, which is pretty crazy

265
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 2: to think a company with less than two hundred employees

266
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 2: having that much impact on the treasury mark. But if

267
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,640
Speaker 2: you look at the treasure distribution of treasury ownership amongst

268
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 2: countries and individual actors, it's a pretty steep decline. So

269
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 2: seventeen it's certainly nothing to scoff at and something that

270
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 2: Teler should probably be proud about, but it's still nowhere

271
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 2: near the amount of vallon that would be needed to

272
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 2: plug a hole if you have countries like Japan and China, or.

273
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 1: I mean you got Scottisent says he thinks it can

274
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 1: get to three trillion by twenty thirty, which would pick

275
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 1: up all of China, all of Japan. It could just

276
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 1: absorb that if they could get to that level. I think, yeah, certainly,

277
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 1: maybe that's more like a marginal buyer. But you also

278
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 1: mentioned like maybe there's really no need for a US

279
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: resident to own a stable poin the US is only

280
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: four percent of the world, but we are abnormally a

281
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 1: large part of the of the GDP of the world.

282
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 1: But to the point that you're making like we already

283
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: have a stable point, right, Like I already transacted with

284
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: my debit card credit card anyway, and it's a dollar.

285
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: But I think what's interesting is if I'm Walmart and

286
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm running seven hundred billion dollars of transactions per seven

287
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: hundred billion per year, and I'm paying call it three

288
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 1: or four percent to process those transactions, if my merchants

289
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 1: would come in and pay with stable coins and I

290
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 1: could put three or four percent of seven hundred billion

291
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: to my bottom line, I kind of want my people

292
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 1: to use stable coins, if I'm Walmart or Amazon or whatever.

293
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: So I think maybe from a consumer standpoint, maybe there's

294
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: not a big push for stable coins, but I think

295
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 1: from the merchant side, they're going to push that hard.

296
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 2: I agree, and it'll be interesting to see if that

297
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: actually scales, right because these stable coins right now they

298
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 2: run on a number of different blockchains, Slona, tron, Ethereum,

299
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 2: and we've seen it on Ethereum specifically, And I think

300
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: if it reaches the scale of three six trillion dollars,

301
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 2: whatever it may be by twenty thirty, twenty three five,

302
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 2: that's gonna be a lot of volume flowing through these blockchains,

303
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 2: despite the fact that fees are relatively low. Now, who's

304
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 2: to say that if you flood these blockchains with a

305
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 2: ton of transaction volume that fees won't rise in the future.

306
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 2: I think that's yet to be determined. That could eat

307
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,200
Speaker 2: into the savings on fees that they have. Is why

308
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 2: I think like bitcoin overlighting the way Lightnings designed with

309
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 2: instant settlement. It's not to say that fees will be

310
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 2: as low as they are now forever, but I think

311
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 2: the scalability of that second layer protocols is definitely more

312
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 2: And so like these apps like Strike which allowed easily

313
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 2: interchange dollars for bitcoin and pay bitcoin invoys cash Uptress

314
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 2: launch that feature, I could see that being a better

315
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 2: savings mechanism for end merchants at the end of the day.

316
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think they could. I think they're trying

317
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:57,239
Speaker 2: to push stable coins on on the masses. And the

318
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,400
Speaker 2: one thing I would just warn't everybody about it's like, hey,

319
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 2: the marketing is like, hey, we don't want to see BDC.

320
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 2: We want a free market of cryptocurrencies, if you will,

321
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 2: and stable coins being one of the ones that we

322
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 2: really want to support. But I think be careful what

323
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 2: you wish for in terms of stable coins, specifically because

324
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 2: the way they operate there issued by central issuers who

325
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 2: have the ability to freeze and prevent you from moving money.

326
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of making sure that the public knows that.

327
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of confusion around this. It seems

328
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 1: obvious to me, but stable coins are not censorship resistant money.

329
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 1: They're centralized, they're controlled. They can be frozen any given time,

330
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: and you can see what just happened in Venezuela to

331
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: see exactly how that worked.

332
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 2: So they freeze like one hundred and twenty seven million

333
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:49,160
Speaker 2: or something.

334
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's obviously, I mean it should be obvious.

335
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 1: But they are issued by a common issuer and they

336
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 1: hold the dollar of your dollar in custody, so you

337
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 1: can't fork it. You can't have a decentralized stable cooin

338
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 1: because you can't fork it. You can't create additional dollars

339
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: out of thin air. So I think that should go. Certainly,

340
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 1: it should. People need to understand that. But I think

341
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: is it really any more risky than using the dollar

342
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: that we have today anyway? I mean, bankou's get freeze

343
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: frozen all the time, right.

344
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, And I would again go back to like

345
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:28,199
Speaker 2: I do think there are material ux inefficiency improvements. Yeah,

346
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,239
Speaker 2: when using stable coins over incoming dollars. The one thing

347
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,199
Speaker 2: I look out for for Genius Act for the Genius

348
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,439
Speaker 2: as specifically, and something that could throw a wrench in

349
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: Percents plan, or not that it's percents plan, but people

350
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 2: who believe that via regulatory clarity, we're gonna see it

351
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 2: this explosion a stable coin adoption. I think it's very

352
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 2: important to understand how Teather has gotten as big as

353
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: it has, and it's because it operated in the gray market,

354
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:59,719
Speaker 2: where people without licenses or source security numbers and other

355
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 2: kind trees or bank accounts could download a piece of

356
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 2: software and accept USDT could accept the Tether stable coin

357
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 2: rather trivially. And it's still not clear to me, but

358
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 2: the way the Genius Act was written, it looks like

359
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 2: they're going to sort of try to force kyc AML

360
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: registration compliance on the stable coin providers. And it's not

361
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: clear to me because I think it may be for

362
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: US issuers only. But Tether's success to date has been

363
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 2: the fact that they've been able to export the dollar

364
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: globally because they've created the user experience where somebody could

365
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 2: download a wallet and receive Teather without having to go

366
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: through any of that kyc AML. You could curb stable

367
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 2: coin adoption outside of the United States. If you have

368
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 2: this KYC AML compliance rules applied to non US citizens,

369
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 2: where they could find themselves in the situation where they

370
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: download the app, theyre asked to put in a license,

371
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: a passport, whatever it may be, and they simply don't

372
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 2: have it, so they can't download the app, and therefore

373
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: they can't participate in the dollar economy in the stable

374
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: coin row.

375
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point when you look, I

376
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 1: guess you'd have to kind of go back to understanding

377
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: why does the administration want stable coins? And if it's

378
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 1: truly kind of to the point that we said, like, hey,

379
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: bring the world on to the dollar standard to buy

380
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: dollars to then thereby by.

381
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 2: The US treasuries.

382
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 1: If really we want to get the rest of the

383
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: world on it, then then you can't have KYC. The

384
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: rest of the world can't pass KYC. They don't have

385
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: the documentation. They just had to flee Syria. You know,

386
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: they were born in a country that has whatever the

387
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: case may be. So if they really want to bring

388
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: the world on to dollars, they can't have KYC. If

389
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: they put the KYC, then it shoots themselves in the

390
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: foot and they can't bring the world on.

391
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that I was actually at a Bitcoin Policy

392
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: Institute event last year, I think last June in Palo

393
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: or dno CEO of Tether was there, and it's basically

394
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 2: explaining how they attain their success and they have a

395
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: pretty strong ground game, like they get on the ground

396
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 2: in these developing economies and teach people how to download

397
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: stable coin walllets and accept and send stable coins. And

398
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 2: he basically said, we're not the only people on the

399
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 2: ground in these areas. You have people who are pushing

400
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: the digital you want on the ground to try to

401
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 2: do the same thing that we are. And so his

402
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: point was like, hey, we've had a lot of success.

403
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: Our hearts are in this for the right reason. When

404
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: they launched Tether, they didn't even think there was going

405
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: to be a product market fit. He said, we thought

406
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen there maybe be one hundred million dollar

407
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: market cap. They sort of stumbled into a massive success

408
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 2: and they've done a really good job at executing and

409
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: expanding that product and getting into the hands. I think

410
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: he said there was four hundred million Tether wallets that

411
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: exist out there. And so that talking about dollar dominance

412
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: and going BX to this KYC thing, if that's truly

413
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: your end goal is to make sure that dollars remain

414
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 2: the predominant currency, not only in the US but outside

415
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: of it. Yet, I think you have to recognize these

416
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: these nuances and the fact that you're not the only

417
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 2: one on the ground trying to pitch your currency. The

418
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: Chinese are out there and others as well.

419
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good point. It's an interesting point though,

420
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: because typically you would think about the dollar success not

421
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: just as reserve currency, but it's a payment network, right.

422
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: Network effects have played out for sure, But part of

423
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: the reason why, maybe other accounts and maybe some of

424
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: the dollar bulls would tell us that there's no replacing

425
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: the dollar because there's not the network those of corresponding banks.

426
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: But you don't have the open capital market, so like

427
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna trust Chinese currency. They can't allow that to float,

428
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: they can't have that open And so then it seems

429
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: pretty easy to understand. The more I try to restrict it,

430
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: the less people could use it. So yeah, I guess

431
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: the US is going to have to find themselves deciding

432
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: which one they want. Do they want the dollar to

433
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: flourish and allow it to continue to freely trade or

434
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: do they want to restrict it now. One thing I

435
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: would say is years ago, I was working with a

436
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: client and he was a really high level consultant to

437
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of different companies, and one of his clients

438
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: was the US Treasury, And so this is somebody I

439
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: was working with firsthand. He was working with the Treasury firsthand.

440
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: So it's not a telephone game here. But he went

441
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: and met with the Treasury and they were building several

442
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: new facilities around the United States, and they're building them

443
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: to print to print dollars, and they're building them right

444
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: at airports. And he's a bitcointer, so he was like,

445
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: I thought the dollars sort of winding down and digital currencies,

446
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: and like, why are you expanding, Why are you building

447
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: multiple facilities multiple to print more dollars? And they're like,

448
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no. The demand for dollars they're never

449
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: even stronger. But they're building them on airports because they're

450
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: shipping the dollars out to other countries, right, But that's

451
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: all non kyc.

452
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: Now, it's cash. I mean, we found this out with

453
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 2: the Smali fraud in Minnesota. It seems like they were

454
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if the Treasury built built one of

455
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: these facilities outside the Minneapolis airport. But it seems like

456
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 2: that was one of the mechanisms for them to get

457
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: money out of the US and into Somalia was cash.

458
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: Is that how they were doing it?

459
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: Cash?

460
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: I didn't hear that part.

461
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean there's been multiple report I mean yeah,

462
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: like Duffel bags full of cash. Wow, millions and millions

463
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: of dollars over the course of a decade.

464
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Duffel bags of cash. It's pretty hard to get cash

465
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: out of the country. A lot of airports. I see

466
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: they have dogs that are trained to sniff for cash.

467
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: That's pretty interesting. That's a whole other point that I

468
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: want to come back to about the fraud that we're

469
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: dealing with. But if we just stick on stable coins

470
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: for a minute, So if I give them a dollar,

471
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 1: they give me a stable point token back in return.

472
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: It's not decentralized, it's not sensual resistant. There's reasons why

473
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: you may or may not want to use that. But

474
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: now that company is, to your point, like Teather is

475
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: now buying treasuries, they're earning a yield on that. Why

476
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: not share some of that yield with us? Right? That's

477
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: kind of sticking point that the banks are having right now.

478
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: But why why are the banks so opposed to that?

479
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: Is it as simple as it creates competition for them,

480
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: or is it something bigger?

481
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: The way I understand is they're taking the yield from

482
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: their treasuries and then they're putting it in overnight markets

483
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: and they're levering up five to ten x to try

484
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 2: to make profits trading markets. I think it's as simple

485
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: as that, and I had it described to me. I

486
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: was actually in DC last week at another Bitcoin Policy

487
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: Institute event to launch of their new office at pub Key,

488
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: and there are some people within the government there and

489
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: this was the day the market Structure bill sort of

490
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: fell apart, and we got obviously, that was the topic

491
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: d jure during the during the event that night, and

492
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: we got on this topic of why don't the banks

493
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: want to share the yield? And number one, that leverage

494
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: situation was explained to me. And then number two, if

495
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 2: they do it, like banks have to just become much

496
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: more risk of and more narrow. And so the way

497
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: it was described to me, it's like banks like JP

498
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: Morgan back in America City would actually be fine, they

499
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: would survive, but community banks would would actually suffer because

500
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: they depend heavily on being able to take risk in

501
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: these overnight markets to eke out profits. And so yeah,

502
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 2: there is like a dynamic at play here, just like

503
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: a structural dynamic where just the edifice of the banking

504
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: system has been built up in this way over the

505
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: course of decades, and you have a lot of leverage

506
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 2: in the system, and the ability to unwind that is

507
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: not straightforward or easier will come without pain, right, And

508
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: so I think there is some sort of existential risk

509
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: to a part of the banking system, but just because

510
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: of how they've become comfortable with leveraging the yield from

511
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: these treasuries.

512
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what Brian Armstrong from coinbase was

513
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: trying to point out. And he's like, it's not because

514
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: they think it's risky. Their model is risky. And so

515
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: what he pointed to specifically was the fractional reserve nature

516
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: of the bank. So I think it's more than just

517
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: they don't want to share some of the rewards, right,

518
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: So like if I give if I deposit my money

519
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: to the bank, I'm now an unsecured creditor to the bank,

520
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: and then they're making money by loaning that money back out.

521
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: But that's the simple part. But the reality is the

522
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: entire business model is built off fractional reserve. And so

523
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: then they loan that money back out at five years,

524
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: seven years, ten years, thirty years, and so then you

525
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: have like that mismatched duration duration mismatch, right, And so

526
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: if I can just custody my own money, my own

527
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: stable coin, or I could move it over to whoever

528
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: tether and they paid me a couple points on that,

529
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: it completely destroys the entire fractional reserve banking system because

530
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: if they don't have our unsecured deposits, then they can't

531
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: they can't fractionally reserve.

532
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: It, right, Yeah, And this is this is a similar

533
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: situation we found in a custodia bank, Kaitlin Lowns Bank Alwyoming,

534
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: which for the longest time couldn't get a FED master

535
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: account because they were running a full reserve bank. They

536
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: were marketing themselves as a full reserve bank. And obviously

537
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: the FED and the Treasury made a bunch of excuses

538
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: in the UCC for why they couldn't issue a master

539
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: account to Custodia, But at the end of the day,

540
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 2: it was really because once you have a full reserve

541
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: bank in the system, that provides an opportunity for you

542
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: to store your money in a full reserve bank and

543
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: not a fractional reserve bank. You're going to see deposits

544
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: flood to that because people don't want banks taking that

545
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: much risk with their money. So this is just the

546
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: resurging of a problem that Custodia went through as well.

547
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: And it's funny too, because you know it loves this

548
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: the most, is Tether, because Tether sort of got It's

549
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: actually comical to me they've gotten out sort of the

550
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: unscathed from a narrative perspective, because this is their whole

551
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: business model. They issued a stable coin, take the cash,

552
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: buy treasuries, and then they just rake the yield onto

553
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: their palace. Cheat is profit and so like, they've never

554
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: shared yield. But now you have like Circle and coin

555
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: based coming out trying to think of a value add,

556
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: value added product line that could add to their exchanges,

557
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: which is yield sharing of the stable coin revenue from

558
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: holding treasuries, and it's being dragged out in for the light.

559
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would disrupt their business model, but

560
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: I think they'd probably trade that out for being, you know,

561
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: one of the most widely recognized, legally compliant companies out there.

562
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: Teather also has a big benefit, which I guess a

563
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: lot of banks do. There's a lot of uproar. I'm

564
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: sure you saw in California they passed a law where

565
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: they can just seize your bitcoin, which is sort of

566
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: like a bunch of made up hoopla. It's it's accounts

567
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: they get abandoned, you know, the state takes those over.

568
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: But Tether specifically, you know, people lose track of their

569
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: crypto accounts all the time and Teather doesn't really know,

570
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: but they estimate that maybe up to like six billion

571
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: dollars has been like.

572
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: It's just lost lost the private key.

573
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, law no different than Starbucks is sitting

574
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: on billions of dollars in their little Starbucks app and

575
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: people forget that as well. But like, yeah, six billion

576
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: dollars that they made just you know, they it's not theirs,

577
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: but they can earn yield on it.

578
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: You know.

579
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of interesting. But I think, you know,

580
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: she why wouldn't they pay you a couple of points back, well.

581
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: Especially a Tether scale, like they can afford it, Like

582
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: I said, they have a team of less than two

583
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: hundred people. It's not like their overhead is obscenely expensive

584
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: for a company doing as much profit as they are.

585
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: Now, what's interesting is is the Stable Cooin Bill, the

586
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: Genius and the Genius Act. It was signed by Congress,

587
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: it was it was signed by President Trump, and now

588
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: the banks are trying to fight it, like, isn't it

589
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: isn't a little bit too late, Like the cows have

590
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: already left the barn, so to speak. So you know,

591
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: I know you've talked about like who rights the draft,

592
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: who lobbies, like who gets the carts? I mean, do

593
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: you think the banking industry, the lobby groups, is strong

594
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: enough to sort of overturn laws that have already been

595
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: signed by Congress and the president.

596
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: You know, the birdies I have on the Hill. That's

597
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: That's what they've been signaling to me in the last month,

598
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: is that the banking lobby has stepped in, yeah, and

599
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: throwing their weight around. They're leading in the center to

600
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: warn and fear mongering about terrorists, financing and all that

601
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: to really try to curb this.

602
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: It's funny because when Biden was still in office, the

603
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: banks were pressuring the sec to overturn the bulletin that

604
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: prevented banks from using custody or custody and crypto. So

605
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: then as soon as Trump took office, he overturned that

606
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: to allow the banks to get into it. So now

607
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: they got what they wanted, and now they don't really

608
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: want it. Well, we want it, but just don't pay yield.

609
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: They want their regulatory mode. They're trying to box everybody out.

610
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: I think now the posture is, Okay, we want this,

611
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: but we want to own it too. I think we

612
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: don't want these upstart crypto companies playing in our playing

613
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: in our pool. Yeah, if you will, So.

614
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, the boxing them out, so to speak.

615
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: So a lot of people fear that bitcoin is getting

616
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: too institutional. It's you know, the black rocks are obviously

617
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: building ETFs and the bitcoin treasury companies, and you know,

618
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: now the government wants to buy it. You know, how

619
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: do you look at that? Like, for me, from like

620
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: a bitcoin lens, like bitcoin was always going to take

621
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: over the world, so of course every business and government

622
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: would use it at some point. But now we have

623
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: people afraid that businesses and governments are using it. How

624
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: do you balance those two things. Governments will never stop

625
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: printing money, so inflation it's not going away.

626
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: Now.

627
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: If your money's not earning at least ten percent a year,

628
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: you're losing purchasing power. That's why I talk about bitcoin.

629
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: It's the number one way to beat inflation and cure

630
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: your future. And the question I get asked almost every

631
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: day is where do you buy your bitcoin?

632
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: Now?

633
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: For years, I've personally use River dot Com and I

634
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: only take on sponsors that I use and I trust,

635
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: and I trust them because River's bitcoin only. They have

636
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: one hundred percent reserve, and they keep your bitcoin safe

637
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: in cold storage with no middlemen, and you can actually

638
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: talk to a real person, a US based support, dedicated manager. Now,

639
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: try getting that peace of mind from coinbase. Of course

640
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you can't now the perks. If you set up auto buys,

641
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 1: you can pay zero fees plus instead of you're bank

642
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: paying you, you know, zero point four percent on cash,

643
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: River pays you three point seven five percent on cash

644
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: paid in bitcoin. So if you're ready to build your

645
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: bitcoin position with confidence, go to River dot com, slash

646
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: mark Moss and get up to one hundred dollars in

647
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: bitcoin when you sign up. Because freedom starts when you

648
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: own your money, and your money starts with bitcoin.

649
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: I think exactly what you said is some I believe

650
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: for my entire time in bitcoin over a decade now,

651
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: which is like, hey, bitcoin is the best money in

652
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: the world. It is truly distributed, decentralized, and possible to control.

653
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: There's going to be demand for it from everybody eventually,

654
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: and so it does not surprise me that institutions are

655
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: stepping in and trying to get exposure to it. They

656
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: sat on the sidelines and watch the best performing asset

657
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: over the course of thirteen years do its thing without them,

658
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 2: and obviously these people are profit driven. At the end

659
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: of the day, I'm driven by greed, which isn't a

660
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 2: bad thing, and they want They decided Okay, this doesn't

661
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: seem like this is going away. We should definitely benefit

662
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: from this ourselves, and so it's not shocking. I don't

663
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: think it's detrimental to the long term viability of bitcoin

664
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: as a neutral, reserve, distributed sovereign asset. But with that

665
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: being said, I do think people have to stay vigilant

666
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: and make sure that we have the ability to write

667
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: open source software and self custody bitcoin if we so

668
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: choose and I think that's a big part of the

669
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: Market Structure Bill as well, is making sure that we

670
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: have those abilities. And so I think it is uncomfortable

671
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, particularly early bitcoiners, to see

672
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: Larry Fink and Michael Sailor coming to bitcoin in a

673
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 2: big way over the last five years. But as you said,

674
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 2: like this should be expected, but do not get complacent.

675
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: Make sure that you're standing up for property rights in

676
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: the digital age and the ability of open source software

677
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: contributors the right code that makes it easy for individuals

678
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: to self custody, send them receive a bitcoin.

679
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: So then you don't see Michael Sailor getting three, five, seven,

680
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: ten percent of the bitcoin supply or black crots i

681
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: bit doing the same thing. You don't necessarily see that

682
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: as being a major failure point maybe or a point

683
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: of it's more about the laws that would get put

684
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: in place that would prohibit the way that we use bitcoin.

685
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: The latter is certainly bigger concern to me, but that's

686
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: not to say that the former couldn't introduce market disruptions

687
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: like if like obviously if Michael Sailor, I mean, I

688
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 2: think strategy presents a bigger risk than ibit. I mean

689
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: ibit at the end of the day, Yes, everybody, you

690
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: see the headlines black Rock bought five hundred bitcoin today,

691
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 2: but really, at the end of the day, they're buying

692
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 2: bitcoin on behalf of individual customers. So the ownership distribution

693
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: within Blackrock is way larger than Strategy as a singular

694
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: bitcoin treasury company. And I'm not saying that Michael Sailor

695
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: will ever do this, but it is possible. Like I think,

696
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: that's more of a systemic risk, not a systemic risk,

697
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: but more of a potential disruptive risk, particularly for the

698
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: price if for some reason or another they were either

699
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: forced or decided for some reason to sell their bitcoin.

700
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: That would hurt if you have seven hundred thousand bitcoin, yeah,

701
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: getting sold in one fell swoop. But as the market

702
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: cap goes up, that risk becomes more diminished. Yeah. We

703
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: saw that last year with I think Galaxy reported that

704
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: they did in eighty thousand bitcoin sale over the course

705
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: of a few days and the price barely went down

706
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: a few percent. Yeah, So as the market cap goes up,

707
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: the risk of incredible price disruption from micro strategy dumping decreases.

708
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: There would obviously be some some narrative blow if that

709
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: were to happen to But if you compare like Strategy

710
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: and I BIT, I think it's certainly higher. The risk

711
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: is higher with Strategy. I don't think Michael Sailor ever,

712
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: I believe him when he says he's never selling his bitcoin.

713
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: If even if he died and somebody new took over

714
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: control of Strategy and they're like, this is the stupidest

715
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: thing we're doing, Like we're going to unwind this position,

716
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: so let's just whatever hypothetically say that happened. It would

717
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: be completely asinine and most likely to see I would

718
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: find themselves in jail for breaking their friditioniary duty if

719
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: they market sold that bitcoin. So like, even if that

720
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: were to happen, it's not going to dump that in

721
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: a day, Like they don't want the slippage selling down.

722
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: They don't want to like destroy their asset based So

723
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: even if they wanted to unwind it, they would they

724
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: would sell that in orderly fashion. The only way it

725
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: would probably be detrimental is if some hostile actor tried

726
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: to take it over to crash the price momentarily. So

727
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: it seems like it seems like the risk, the potential

728
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: risk is slim to none.

729
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: On that, I'd say, yeah, I would agree.

730
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: And then if you look at traditional assets, I mean,

731
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: like you have three companies that make up like eighty

732
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: five percent of all equity ownership.

733
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: Like and it's and then even with that, like you

734
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 2: have seven companies driving most of the equity returns as well, right,

735
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: not like concentration of ownership, a concentration of returns.

736
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: The concentration gold ownership. So like the concentration of bitcoin

737
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: ownership is small, and unlike the equity ownership. What Blackrock

738
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: is able to do even though they buy those equities

739
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: on behalf of their customers, they take the votes, but

740
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: Big onoin has no votes.

741
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah if they like I mean

742
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, if they wanted to vote on like

743
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: a protocol change, it would have to get coinbase to

744
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: move all the bitcoin the custoding on behalf of Blackrocks customers,

745
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: and it would be a logistical nightmare.

746
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Us jump to another topic. I want to jump to.

747
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: We kind of throughout earlier. It was some of that

748
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: some of the fraud that we've seen you mentioned Minnesota,

749
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: but it's being uncovered all over all over the country

750
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: right now. And we sort of have like I think

751
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: this like escalating situation going on. And I think when

752
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: Elon Musk moved into DOGE and he started exposing where

753
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: a lot of this money went, it was like it

754
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: was really punching the gut for a lot of people.

755
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: And I think it's like, you know, Mike Green put

756
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: out that amazing piece of information that was like the

757
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: new poverty line is whatever, one hundred and forty hundred

758
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars, and so people are breaking, people can't afford.

759
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: They don't understand that the money printing has caused the inflation.

760
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: They understand they're barely getting by, but they're doing their best,

761
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: they're working hard. But then when Elon Must you know,

762
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: uncovers like USA and shows us where that fraud is,

763
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's like what okay, But like

764
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: let's soldier on and hopefully they're going to do something.

765
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: And then back to the Migreen post, one of the

766
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: biggest problems for the average person is the childcare. I

767
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: think it was it was like thirty two thousand a year,

768
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: So like one of the biggest burdens a US taxpayer

769
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: has is childcare. And then we find out all the

770
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: fraud is happening in childcare. I mean, if that, like,

771
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm not

772
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: sure what it is, but what's your take on that.

773
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: Wrote a newsletter about this, tweeted about it like it's taxation.

774
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 2: Is the humiliation ritual? Yeah, it's like, to your point,

775
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: the American worker, if you're not well off enough and

776
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: you need both parents to be in the workforce, you

777
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: have to pay for childcare. And I think it's just

778
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: not only humiliating but insulting that we have these government

779
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 2: programs and Medicaid and Medicare that are just ending out

780
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: billions upon billions, trillions of dollars of the course of

781
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 2: years to these programs for people to set up daycare

782
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: centers that aren't being used to actually watch over kids.

783
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 2: And not only that, it seems like immigrants, both legal

784
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: and illegal, are getting preferential treatment in terms of access

785
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: to those federal dollars. Like you said, Minnesota's just the

786
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 2: tip of the iceberg. The daycare centers just the tip

787
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: of the iceberg. You have these hospice centers that are

788
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: being uncovered as completely fraudulent. You have the transportation companies

789
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: that are supposed to be driving people around to these

790
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 2: medical centers, completely fraudulent obviously of the H one B

791
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: system which is being completely manipulated and taking advantage of.

792
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: And again, I mean, many people don't like to hear this,

793
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: but it seems like it's objectively true based off of

794
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: a lot of the reporting that is coming out. You

795
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 2: have Steve Robinson who's doing a similar investigation in Maine

796
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: that Nick Shirley did in Minnesota, and it's a lot

797
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: of immigrants, and it seemed pretty clear that there is

798
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: a system that's been set up to set up these

799
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: sort of federal grant programs funnel them towards humans, Health

800
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: and Human Service, Medicaid, Medicare, and again immigrants are getting

801
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: preferential treatment. And then they're taking that money, usually not

802
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: doing in most cases, not doing what they're supposed to

803
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: be doing with that money by setting up a legitimate business.

804
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: They're buying houses, they're buying cars, setting it off shore

805
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: through the Minneapolis airport, and I'm sure many others. And

806
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 2: then they're funneling some money back to politicians. And it

807
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: seems like there is a scheme going on where the

808
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: American taxpayer money is being taken legal immigrants or being

809
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: given money so that they can live a lifestyle, take houses,

810
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: take cars, drive up the cost of necessary goods for

811
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 2: everybody else, and then they're funneling money back to Democrats

812
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: and then voting for them on top of it to

813
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: sort of exacerbate that cycle, to ensure that it continues.

814
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: And it's completely insane, and again it's a humiliation ritual

815
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: and sad not sad. The frightening part about it is

816
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: you have to wonder, like how much of the system,

817
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 2: like how much to what degree is the system dependent

818
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: on like this fraud continuing to be enabled because at

819
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 2: the end of the day, this money is being taken

820
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: from taxpayers, it's being printed or being raised via debt,

821
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: via treasure auctions and push towards these things. But at

822
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 2: the end of the day, these people are buying houses,

823
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: buying cars, buying food, They're sending their kids to skulls,

824
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: so they are spending money throughout the economy. So how

825
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: much of the economy is dependent on this fraudulent sort

826
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: of racket that's being uncovered? And like, if you were

827
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: to essentially just rip away all the fraud at once,

828
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: what effect would that have on GDP on the economy

829
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: will be best thrown immediately into a recession or depression? Yeah,

830
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: and that's that's the scary part. It's like, can you

831
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: not stop it because the system is dependent on the flows.

832
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: When you say it's like a humiliation ritual. So it's like,

833
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm being humiliated because like, I'm working so hard, you're

834
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: taking my money, which makes it even harder. I'm not

835
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: living the life that I should. I don't have my

836
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: American dream. But then I see these immigrants getting the

837
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: benefit of it and getting to live with the go

838
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: on TV with my two thousand dollars glasses or whatever,

839
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: and so that's like sort of the humiliation ritual, like

840
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm being put down trying to abide by the rules,

841
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: watching these other people sort of get ahead off of

842
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: my hard earned money.

843
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think the most effective way

844
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: I've heard this explain if you think about like how

845
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: much we paying taxes thirty to forty percent, so you

846
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: work three to four months out of the year.

847
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: Fifty percent in California and New York.

848
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, fifty So you work six months out of the year,

849
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: six months of your work out of the year is

850
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: dedicated towards funding these programs that are just going to

851
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: people who don't seem to be working at all.

852
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: And then and then, I mean, you know, and in

853
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: Minnesota specifically, or in the Somali case, I believe it

854
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: was seventy eight percent of them that have been in

855
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: the country for more than ten years are still on welfare.

856
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: I think it was eighty percent, eighty one percent.

857
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like that's this humiliation ritual. It's like,

858
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: we're working so hard, we're trying to get by. I'm

859
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: scrubbing toilets, I'm turning pipe, some waiting tables, whatever it

860
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: may be, and these people they don't even have a

861
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: job after ten years of coming to the country.

862
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 2: And that's the saying, Like the it's I think it's

863
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: getting easier to have this conversation because people are getting

864
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 2: so fed up. But it's very easy to race bait

865
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: during these conversations and just paint people with the labels

866
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: of xenophobe, racist, nationalists, whatever it may be. But at

867
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day, at brass Tax, it comes

868
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: down to like fairness. Yeah, Like there is an explicit

869
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: contract between US citizens and the federal government I'm going

870
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: to pay you taxes and you're supposed to do You're

871
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: supposed to make sure the roads are working, that healthcare

872
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: system works, that we have a banking system, whatever it

873
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: may be. Like, I'm going to work. You're supposed to

874
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: protect me and protect our borders and work in my

875
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 2: best interest, and for that, I will siphon off a

876
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: little bit of my paycheck. Because it hasn't always been

877
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 2: that way, but that we've been conditioned, particularly in this

878
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: day and age over the last fifty years, that that

879
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: is the social contract and they are not upholding they're

880
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: end of the social contract. In fact, there abhorrently abusing

881
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: it to the point where it's materially detrimental to the

882
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 2: quality of life of American citizens. Yes, we're actually born here, Yeah,

883
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 2: and would like to be able to work a good job,

884
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: raise a family, and just live in peace.

885
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean for the declaration of Independence, the government

886
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: is there too uphold our God given rights of life, liberty,

887
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: and property. And so if they're not protecting my life,

888
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: like we see a lot of violence happening, they're not

889
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: protecting my property, they're stealing a property, then that's that's

890
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: in violation of that social contract. Uh and and I

891
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want to beat this point

892
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: into the ground. I think it's it's pretty evident. But

893
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. You know, you've been in media for

894
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: a long time now, obviously with with all the things

895
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: that you're doing, by the way, you've done such a

896
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: great job with really building TFTC back up and turn

897
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: into media companies. A good job on that. But as

898
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: somebody who's been doing this for a long time and

899
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: source of seeing what Nick Shirley did and now you know,

900
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: all the want to be copycats like that, et cetera,

901
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: and then you know sort of wore out with the

902
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: rage bait and all that. I mean, do you think

903
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: this is like a defining moment that could really like

904
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: change this situation?

905
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: I should hope so. And I do think. I mean,

906
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 2: I just noticed it in my interactions with people in

907
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: my immediate network who aren't as online as me, And

908
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: I think this story has broken out. There's just been

909
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 2: like a fan like Ah Smalley, immigrants taking the money right,

910
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: like jokes like that, and like so I think people

911
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: are becoming more aware of it. I think the economic

912
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: stress of the time, like the inflation we suffered after COVID,

913
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 2: all the job destruction, particularly of the middle class that

914
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: happened after COVID. I think people are getting to a

915
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: breaking point where it's like, hey, something's got to happen.

916
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: And I mean you can see it in the polls too,

917
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: particularly for people who voted for Trump. They don't think

918
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: he's doing enough. Yeah, Like they want him to be

919
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: more aggressive for this immigration policy. They want him to

920
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: be more aggressive in terms of holding people to account,

921
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: like Governor Waltz or ag Keith ELL's yeah in Minnesota specifically. Yeah,

922
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 2: And there is a large subsect of the country, many

923
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: of which voted for Trump, the majority of the country

924
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: that wants him to do more and is fed up.

925
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: And so I do think we are at a critical

926
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: tipping point. And that's the other thing though, too, Like

927
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: we're talking about independent media, what you're doing, what I'm doing.

928
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: I think this the aftermath and Nick Shirley, what's going

929
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 2: on with the ice protest in Minnesota is an incredible

930
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: case study in media manipulation because I'm sure you've seen it,

931
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: Like President Obama gave Tom Heym saw that.

932
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: I was just thinking of that.

933
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the head of the head of ICE a medal

934
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve for how good he did, how good

935
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: of a job he did deporting illegal immigrants, And in

936
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: twenty twelve he deported twice as many illegal immigrants as

937
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 2: he did in twenty twenty five. And they're just this

938
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,479
Speaker 2: whole media narrative this time around where what he's doing

939
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 2: is bad and he's not even doing his job. I

940
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 2: won't say he's not doing his job as good, but

941
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: he's not even deporting as many people as he did

942
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. So there's just like a complete inversion

943
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 2: of reality, all from media fearmongering.

944
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even Joe Rogan is on that. I

945
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: mean even he is. I'm surprised that his takes on that.

946
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: And you know, the media can spin it however they want,

947
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: and you know they prey upon, you know, our emotions

948
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: or whatever, and so of course it's terrible and you

949
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: see fans getting broken apart in all those things. But

950
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see how that changes, I guess,

951
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: but again we'll see. Well, I don't want to I

952
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: don't want to spend too much some of that. I

953
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: want to finish it back kind of going back to

954
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: bitcoin you know, one of the things we talked about

955
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: sort of like the financialization that's happening and some of

956
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: the risks that's posed. We talk about the stable coins

957
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: and sort of being this maybe inter am medium of exchange,

958
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: but I want to go back to bitcoin in the

959
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: medium exchange and the rails that are going on there.

960
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: A lot of people are thinking that bitcoin could sort

961
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: of be captured as like the store of value asset

962
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: and maybe it'll just succeed there. Maybe I'll buy it

963
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: through my stockbroker account or be in my retirement account

964
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: that my financial advisor manages for me, but then gets

965
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: blocked from being a medium of exchange. I guess number one, like,

966
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: do you think that's actually possible? Could it be just

967
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: moved into an SOB and still not be an MOE

968
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: and then like what's being done to like really kind

969
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: of protect and build that MOE status of it.

970
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: I mean, anything's possible. So yeah, it's totally possible that

971
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: for some reason or another Bitcoin gets pigeonholed as a

972
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: store of value and people refuge either refuse or prevented

973
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 2: from using as a medium exchange. Is that going to happen?

974
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: Is that happening no, I don't think so. I think

975
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 2: the rails that exists today to use bitcoin and media

976
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 2: as a medium of exchange or longer than they've ever

977
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: been the maturing at a quicker pace than they've ever

978
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: been maturing. And most importantly, I think more and more

979
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: people are demanding to get paid in bitcoin. I've noticed

980
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 2: this independently at TFTC. We have some contractors that do

981
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: work for us and pretty larly around YouTube stuff, and

982
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: I was not expecting them to be bitcoiners, but a

983
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: couple on the first invoices they send me were bitcoinner yess,

984
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: just pay me in bitcoin. Secondly, obviously we had Squares

985
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 2: roll out at their point of sale terminal. Any Square merchant,

986
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: four million of them across the United States can easily

987
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: turn on the bitcoin function and begin to accept bitcoins

988
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: payment and save on those interchange fees that exist with

989
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: credit and debit card systems. And then I think one

990
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: thing that's not talked about enough, and this is a

991
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 2: bit of a theory that I have and a prediction,

992
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: and it'll take some time to play out. But if

993
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: this agentic economy does continue to mature and we get

994
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: past the point of individual humans using agents to do

995
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 2: rather rudimentary tasks for them, and things evolve to the

996
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: points where these agents will go in complete economic tasks.

997
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: Have to go out and buy goods and services on

998
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: the web, So you want to send your agent out

999
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 2: to buy you a plane ticket. That's a big conversation

1000
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: right now is like what money are they going to use?

1001
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: And you have companies like Stripes that are working in

1002
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: collaboration with stable coin companies and others trying to create

1003
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 2: like a unified API system that can load up agents

1004
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: with stable coin walllets. I think the banks are working

1005
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 2: on something similar, maybe not with stable coin walls, but

1006
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: with like a Zel like program. But I think at

1007
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's going to be Bitcoin

1008
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: over the Lightning network or cash. And so there's a

1009
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 2: company that recently launched called money dev Kit, founded by

1010
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: Nick Slaney and another gentleman whose name is escaping me.

1011
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: But Nick comes from the Block family of companies. He

1012
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: helped build BICKI, he helped build blocks c equals Lightning Node.

1013
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: I think he worked at cash app on some products

1014
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 2: as well, so we understand the sumer consumer applications very well.

1015
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: And he's building money DevKit, which is essentially the ability

1016
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: to know if you're vibe coding, spin up a non

1017
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: custodial Bitcoin wallet and begin receiving and sending payments in

1018
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 2: five minutes. And if you think of the aegentic economy

1019
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: emerging in the UX of an agent spinning up a wallet,

1020
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 2: whether it's a stable coin wallet or a Bitcoin wallet,

1021
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 2: I think we're going to choose the bitcoin wallet because

1022
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: UX is going to be easier because, again going back

1023
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 2: to kyc AML, if you just have an agent, you're like, hey,

1024
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: I need you to figure out how to receive and

1025
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: then send money as you're going about your day to

1026
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: day work for me, they can be like, Okay, let

1027
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: me check the Stripe API. Okay, you don't have a

1028
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,479
Speaker 2: Stripe account. Someone needs you to get a stripe put

1029
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 2: in all your EI and information in that and then

1030
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: get me An API too can do that, or it

1031
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 2: can do the research on his own. This thing money

1032
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: dev kit exists where I can spin up a Bitcoin

1033
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: wallet and begin receiving payments within five minutes. And so

1034
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: it's maybe a hair brain theory, but I think just

1035
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: from a pure UX perspective of the ability for an

1036
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: agent to spin up a Bitcoin wallet begin receiving and

1037
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: sending payments in a very short amount of time is

1038
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: going to be a massive boon for bitcoin as a

1039
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: meetium of exchange, and that'll be the machine to machine world.

1040
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 2: But then on top of that, I think as inflation,

1041
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: if inflationary pressures persist, maybe not here in the United States,

1042
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: but in other areas, people are just going to demand

1043
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: better money. And I think that is continuing to happen.

1044
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the value and medium exchange continues

1045
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: to get broken apart. So even if I still want

1046
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: to continue to transact on dollars, I still want a

1047
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: better store value just to go back to that agent thing.

1048
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: So I didn't go to Meena this year. The year before,

1049
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: so I was December twenty twenty four. I gave the

1050
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: closing keynote there and I used a couple different charts,

1051
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: one of which is this evolutionary process of money where

1052
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: it goes from a collectible store value and medium exchange

1053
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: to the unit of account. And then I overlaid that

1054
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: to a technolological revolution cycle fifty year cycle, four phases,

1055
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: and I mapped out that I think bitcoin would hit

1056
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: the medium exchange phase between twenty thirty to twenty forty,

1057
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: and I said in that presentation the main driver would

1058
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,479
Speaker 1: be agents doing that, and for many of the reasons

1059
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: that you already given, but also because they're going to

1060
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: need something programmable. So obviously with bitcoin you could you know,

1061
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: put some smart contracts on it something like that if

1062
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,439
Speaker 1: you needed. But also if you think about like when

1063
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,479
Speaker 1: agents are working more and non autonomously and they're hiring

1064
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: other agents, how much would they charge for that, Well,

1065
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: their costs are compute and energy, so it makes sense

1066
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: they'd want to energy money to offset their energy costs directly.

1067
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 2: Right.

1068
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: They don't need FIAT for anything, right, they have to

1069
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: offset that. So yeah, I agree with you. I think

1070
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: it's coming. It's not failed. It's just it's just an

1071
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: evolutionary process. We're not there yet, but man, the rate

1072
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: the agents are progressing at this at this rate right now.

1073
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm thinking too far out. Maybe it's going to

1074
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: happen much quicker.

1075
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean this is just anecdotally, but if

1076
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: I were to open up my podcasting two point zero app,

1077
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: like I could show you streams of people setting me

1078
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 2: bitcoin over the Lightning network literally every hour of every day. Yeah,

1079
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: we'll probably receive over a thousand transactions every while just

1080
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: from the podcast alone. And then Matt and I just

1081
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: did rabbit Hole recap or live stream where we live

1082
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 2: stream to noster Now and that has embedded bitcoin tipping

1083
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 2: it as well. And we just made two hundred dollars

1084
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 2: talk shooting the ship for an hour in bitcoin. So

1085
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: that's like, that's bitcoin as a media make shame. Yeah,

1086
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: people sending it from their walletcar wallet. Yeah, I love it.

1087
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's wrap it up. I'm gonna ask you

1088
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: one last question. So you mentioned earlier stained vigilant about bitcoin.

1089
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: So is there a point where bitcoin has reached escape

1090
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: velocity and it is too big to fail, it too

1091
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: big to try to anchor back down, or are we

1092
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: always going to need to stay vigilant.

1093
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: I think we're always gonna need to stay vigilant. But

1094
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: I do think there is a point where we reached

1095
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 2: escape velocity, Like because here's a scenario can play it.

1096
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: We really we reach escape velocity. Bitcoin's out in the wild.

1097
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: We're using it like crazy, and we take for granted

1098
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: at posts escape velocity that it is working and doing

1099
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: its thing and as beautiful at it as it is,

1100
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: because it has certain properties, and this is a problem

1101
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,479
Speaker 2: for like generations after us, like thirty forty years from now.

1102
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: People just don't understand how bitcoin works and why it's important,

1103
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: so they don't understand the need to actually make sure

1104
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: they're doing things the right way, running nodes, self custody,

1105
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: all that. So I think you get both. You can

1106
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 2: get escape velocity. You can have this period of time

1107
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: where you have a golden era of bitcoin and people

1108
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 2: doing it right. But if you don't impart the knowledge

1109
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: into your progenny in their progeny, that you could find

1110
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: yourself in a situation decades from now where Bitcoin's core

1111
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 2: properties have been perturbed and eroded because people don't care.

1112
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 2: I think Greg Maxwell, the bitcoin developer, put it very well.

1113
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: I think over a decade ago when he was posed

1114
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 2: this question on I believe Reddit or bitcoin talk dot org.

1115
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: Complacency is Bitcoin's biggest risk in the long run. So

1116
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 2: the way to combat complacency is staying vigilant. Yeah, and

1117
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: I agree it exists on the protocal level, and then

1118
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: on the social layer. Yeah. I mentioned Bitcoin Policy Institute

1119
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: a couple of times. I think what they're doing on

1120
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: the social layer, particularly as it pertains to this intersection

1121
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 2: of bitcoin and US government policy is extremely important too.

1122
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 2: Like I know, I don't like the government. I've been

1123
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: talking a lot of shit on the government during this episode.

1124
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: But I think if you do engage, engage earnestly, smartly,

1125
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 2: they will listen to you. And I think efforts like

1126
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 2: those by the Bitcoin Policy Institut, Coin Center and Bitcoin

1127
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 2: Voter Project they're actually having material positive effects on the

1128
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 2: conversation around bitcoin on Capitol Hill, So that's important as well.

1129
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: On the social side, you have to stay involved. Good, good,

1130
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: good point. All right, we're going to wrap it up

1131
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: with that, Marty, thanks so much. Been fun, Mark, It's

1132
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: always a pleasure, sir,