Speaker 1: The big bummer too. Of those fucker's ruined his logo
Speaker 1: and it just fucking that's that's the hardest thing to that.
Speaker 1: That just kills me, It really does. They changed the logo.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Maddie, we should do it before and
Speaker 1: after because they totally ruined me. Oh no, heartbreaking. They
Speaker 1: changed the golf man put pants on him more than
Speaker 1: one dude, more than once. It was like it was
Speaker 1: like a chick that does bad botox and she keeps
Speaker 1: going and it's seriously, what I mean, don't put that
Speaker 1: on anything, man, do not. You gotta watch what you
Speaker 1: say with Maddie because he kind of can fucking coming
Speaker 1: submarine another log fi. Nobody here here is get time.
Speaker 1: M H. Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chanella.
Speaker 1: We're back at the fire Pit, which always feels good.
Speaker 1: We've been busy interviewing and editing season two, which will
Speaker 1: start dropping lead February. Among other things, you'll be hearing
Speaker 1: tributes to Charlie Sifford, Tony Gwynn, and longtime colleague and
Speaker 1: friend Tim Rosafort. Haven't in reporting your story was like
Speaker 1: having rock heell Welch is your waitress. It's like I
Speaker 1: can't do any better than that. I mean, you just
Speaker 1: keep on coming back to the table, sweetheart. It asked me.
Speaker 1: If I want to water refill eleven times between now
Speaker 1: and in midnight, that would be just fine. Plus stories
Speaker 1: from Nancy Lopez, Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer and Lanny Watkins
Speaker 1: on Ben Hogan. Yes there's dear Landy and clothes with
Speaker 1: my check for war dollars for your skins. Yesterday, with
Speaker 1: all the confusion of our intruder, I simply forgot this.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine this fellow doing that. It was my
Speaker 1: first experience of this kind. I really didn't know how
Speaker 1: to handle the situation except to just quit. Hopefully we
Speaker 1: can all have another game soon. All my good wishes
Speaker 1: for you at the US open at Marian. I know
Speaker 1: you can win it best, Ben. We've also just launched
Speaker 1: the Firepit Collective dot com where you can find all
Speaker 1: of the content will be producing, which will include this
Speaker 1: podcast plus journeys traditional travel stories to destinations all over
Speaker 1: the world. Plus we're bringing back The Ambush, which is
Speaker 1: a new digital series celebrating the venue, your itinerary, best practices,
Speaker 1: and your buddy strip planner. The camaraderie and the unique
Speaker 1: traditions of your trip. Submit your trip at Firepit Collective
Speaker 1: dot com and you and your crew might be next.
Speaker 1: We'll all so be producing features on people, places or
Speaker 1: things that deserve a closer look. And I'm back to
Speaker 1: writing a blog on destinations, developments, architecture, rankings and trends
Speaker 1: in the golf and travel industry. We also added the
Speaker 1: Pitch Shop, which is where you can buy fire Pit
Speaker 1: merchandise as well as shop Preferred partners and cool ship
Speaker 1: I think you should be aware of. But for now,
Speaker 1: with yet another mini pod, we're helping our friends at
Speaker 1: links So celebrate and honor the life of Barry Grimes, who,
Speaker 1: at the age of six, died of brain cancer last year.
Speaker 1: As you probably heard in season one of The fire
Speaker 1: Pit in the episode which told the story about the
Speaker 1: building of Ashworth, Barry Grimes was critical to the development
Speaker 1: and success of that brand, a brand I was in
Speaker 1: love with as a kid. I never got to meet
Speaker 1: Barry grind but I've now heard a lot about him.
Speaker 1: He has survived by his wife Kristen, and his two sons, Paul,
Speaker 1: who was a freshman at a s U and chart
Speaker 1: a junior in high school. In this podcast, you'll hear
Speaker 1: why Barry Grimes was so special, and at the end
Speaker 1: of the stories, you can hear about how you can
Speaker 1: help the cause. We start with Jeff Cunningham, who, along
Speaker 1: with John Ashworth, is the co creator of Links Soul.
Speaker 1: When I say Barry Grimes, Jeff, what do you say, oh, man,
Speaker 1: um genius? Probably first, Honestly, I've only met a couple
Speaker 1: people in that that I put in that rank, and
Speaker 1: I have them like and a little file in my head.
Speaker 1: Somebody that, no matter what they do, I just always
Speaker 1: looked up to and right off the bat, I mean,
Speaker 1: Barry just had that. I wasn't all Berry. I was fourteen.
Speaker 1: I think when I met him probably um, right off
Speaker 1: the bat. I've just never seen anybody like him. He's
Speaker 1: just mesmerizing. If I don't meet Barry Grimes in L
Speaker 1: A and seven, We're not having this conversation. John Ashworth
Speaker 1: with more background on his buddy Berry. You know he
Speaker 1: had you know, he had longer hair than I do now.
Speaker 1: He had long hair beard. Uh. He was from Alabama.
Speaker 1: He only went to like maybe a year and a
Speaker 1: half of college, then dropped out and drove out to
Speaker 1: l A because he was an artist and he wanted
Speaker 1: to be in l A where the action was. And
Speaker 1: he did not have one lick of an accent. He
Speaker 1: grew up in Alabama, you know, born and raised. You
Speaker 1: would have thought he was from l A. He could
Speaker 1: play the guitar like crazy, you know. Uh, he could
Speaker 1: draw and paint and he was funny. He was so
Speaker 1: down to earth and just would talk to anybody and listened,
Speaker 1: and and doing film and that whole world pre computer
Speaker 1: set up graphic. He could do all that and did
Speaker 1: that like our first ads were like film that you
Speaker 1: would do and then send off to the magazine. And
Speaker 1: Jeff with more on why Berry was so special. Creativity
Speaker 1: relied so much on intuition, and it's so much intuition,
Speaker 1: but you can also get into a technical role with
Speaker 1: it too. Barry had this balance between the technical and
Speaker 1: the intuitive that you can really only find in like
Speaker 1: Jedi Masters, Jimi Hendrix. Like it's that level of where
Speaker 1: you've mastered the technical so well that it fuels your
Speaker 1: intuition and they work together in this harmony that you know,
Speaker 1: become something else. It's like Ben Hogan is like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's expertise, really, but it's it's it's to another level.
Speaker 1: So it's like, and you see it an art all
Speaker 1: the time. You see people that are really intuitive but
Speaker 1: they're technical, they just crap. Or you see people that
Speaker 1: get really technical and they lose the field. And so photos, music, golf, swings,
Speaker 1: everything gets really tight, you know, and we've all experienced
Speaker 1: that before, and you you know, you lose that touch.
Speaker 1: Barry had that ability to no is technical stuff inside
Speaker 1: out and backwards. Best I've ever seen a computer, best
Speaker 1: I've ever seen with a camera, any machinery, anything, there
Speaker 1: was new inside out and backwards. He took the time
Speaker 1: to know exactly why every bit of that thing did
Speaker 1: what it did, which people don't do anymore, and then
Speaker 1: kept his whole creativity the entire time too, which is
Speaker 1: just like you just don't see that. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: and when you do, it's special, it's and it's and
Speaker 1: it changes the face of things. And that's what Barry did.
Speaker 1: I mean, he changed the face of all these things.
Speaker 1: He's influencing people still and they might not even know
Speaker 1: they're being influenced. But if you've noticed that all these
Speaker 1: photographers right now in golf that are starting to look
Speaker 1: a certain way of whatever whatever. A lot of that
Speaker 1: stems from Barry. You know. Still, but back to seven
Speaker 1: for a second, when John Ashworth needed some help developing
Speaker 1: his apparel idea. Here he is now on how he
Speaker 1: met Barry and why it was such a great fit.
Speaker 1: His friend of mine is going, I need to get
Speaker 1: a graphic artist. You know, this friend of mine that
Speaker 1: was a golfer. Lane Morey is his name, you know.
Speaker 1: He lived in l A And I go, Lane, I
Speaker 1: need I need to find it. He goes, Hey, I
Speaker 1: got this buddy of mine, Barry Grimes, who works at
Speaker 1: NBC Studios and he likes golf and he went to Scotland.
Speaker 1: And I go, great, give me his number. So it
Speaker 1: gives me his number. I called Barry and I'm explaining
Speaker 1: about go Barry. You know, I'm trying to do this
Speaker 1: new clothing line, and I wanted to be sort of like,
Speaker 1: you know, old school meets new school. I'm really into
Speaker 1: walking and you know, the traditions of the game, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to be hip and modern. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just telling all this stuff, like, you know, I
Speaker 1: love Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I've never been
Speaker 1: to Scotland. I love Scotland, he goes, I've been to Scotland.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, you know, so we're just talking
Speaker 1: on the phone, and unbeknownst to me, he's actually, you know,
Speaker 1: as artists do, he's actually stoodling in sketching. He actually
Speaker 1: drew the golf Man from that Converse station. The Ashworth brand,
Speaker 1: and specifically the golf Man logo, had an immediate impact
Speaker 1: on otherwise stagnant golf apparel industry. For more, we hear
Speaker 1: now from Jim Nance, Fred Couples and then John Cook,
Speaker 1: three of the original Ashworth Ambassadors. Let me just take
Speaker 1: this opportunity to to add that Barry Grimes was someone
Speaker 1: who really captured the look of Ashworth two. He just
Speaker 1: his artistic flare and his ability to even create the
Speaker 1: golf Man logo. I mean, the golf Man logo was
Speaker 1: basically scratched on the back of a paper napkin, and
Speaker 1: that logo became a universal symbol for people that cared
Speaker 1: about the game of golf. The logo is incredible. Um
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, can you argue I can't think
Speaker 1: of another There are a lot of great legs. Don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, but the Ashworth logo was something you know,
Speaker 1: Johnny oh Now with with his bordon and a guy
Speaker 1: standing standing next to it is a phenomenal logo, but
Speaker 1: I don't think it beats the Ashworth logo now golf Man.
Speaker 1: The golf Man was iconic. That symbolism went beyond guys
Speaker 1: on TV wearing the product. It evolved into what Ashworth
Speaker 1: called the Ardage Book, an annual fashion magazine or style
Speaker 1: book that showcased a year of memorable imagery of the
Speaker 1: Ashworth Ambassadors, more from Nance, Couples and Cook on the
Speaker 1: photo shoots. Well, John came up with the idea of
Speaker 1: we ought to have the Yardage Book and we can
Speaker 1: make it into almost like a magazine. We can distribute
Speaker 1: at the green Grass, all the shops, and we can
Speaker 1: tell stories in their right articles and in the body
Speaker 1: of that of that magazine. We can also have some
Speaker 1: pretty cool photos and we can also put them on
Speaker 1: our hand tags. The photo shoots. You know, there's a guy,
Speaker 1: Barry Grimes, who's who's really really he's not doing that
Speaker 1: well right now. And I told John the other day
Speaker 1: and I texted Barry and I said Barry. This is
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you being ill. I said, you
Speaker 1: were by far the most fun of anything I've ever
Speaker 1: done in golf, and you made the shoot so easy.
Speaker 1: And I get a little edgy because you know, I
Speaker 1: don't like kind of taking pictures and doing all that.
Speaker 1: And we did so many weird things, John and so
Speaker 1: many fun things that uh, I think Ashworth knew you
Speaker 1: know what John Cook and I liked, and we wrote
Speaker 1: in cars and then of course later on Ernie Els
Speaker 1: hopped in and of course one and open wearing the clothing,
Speaker 1: and this thing just took off and and now everyone
Speaker 1: has the same kind of clothing. It's it's it's been
Speaker 1: a wild ride and started way back in eight seven.
Speaker 1: You never shot at me this stuff in digital, like
Speaker 1: the idea I was thinking about Vegi, Like I go
Speaker 1: out and I shoot a thousand shots for a photo shoot.
Speaker 1: Barry took maybe five rolls of film and that the most,
Speaker 1: and it's like thirty pictures at a time, and he
Speaker 1: got all those shots. I mean, I used to be
Speaker 1: so stressed out because you know, I mean, you take
Speaker 1: this film, you know when you put it, there's those
Speaker 1: big four by five cameras or wherever they were, and
Speaker 1: you know, you had to have the setting right, you
Speaker 1: had to have a meter write, it had to be
Speaker 1: loaded right, you know, and then you'd have to take
Speaker 1: it and do it and market and put in a
Speaker 1: plastic bag, and you know it was like kind of stressful.
Speaker 1: Really when you're on a photo shooting, you got two
Speaker 1: hours and kind of figure out what to do. And
Speaker 1: the photo shoots were just an amazing experience because it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be anything like you would think of a photo
Speaker 1: shoot would be. Like remember the shot of Fred and
Speaker 1: the water that was the second time, totally dude Barry
Speaker 1: put it was we didn't have a water housing and
Speaker 1: he was like, let's get I wanted because it was
Speaker 1: rain gear or whatever. And he was like he got
Speaker 1: Fred in the pool and because he didn't have a
Speaker 1: waterhouse and he has biggest glass camera. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like camera was an aquarium from my house. He put it,
Speaker 1: no I know, and you put it in the aquarium,
Speaker 1: steal the the aquarium and put it in the aquarium
Speaker 1: and went underwater with the aquarium and shot Fred through
Speaker 1: an aquarium. Cool, unreable. Ash Worth really took care of
Speaker 1: us and I can tell you right now. I did
Speaker 1: a few photo shoots in some areas that, uh, they
Speaker 1: got no clearance. You know, John Ashworth and Berry would
Speaker 1: go find a spot. I'm sure you've seen it where
Speaker 1: I'm hitting on the railroad tracks. I can tell you
Speaker 1: two or three times we hopped off the railroad tracks
Speaker 1: down underneath it. The train would go. Buy in Dallas
Speaker 1: and it's probably you know, I I have the shot somewhere.
Speaker 1: We went through Palm Springs with Cookie and I living there.
Speaker 1: We were in areas that you know, like like, well,
Speaker 1: if the cops come, we just pack up our stuff
Speaker 1: and leave. And I'm like, so are we you know,
Speaker 1: are we supposed to be here? We we don't know,
Speaker 1: you know. So all of it was was really kind
Speaker 1: of fun and it was not nerve rat it was
Speaker 1: just it was just entertainment. It was never boring. And
Speaker 1: trust me, as you get older, you know some sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't want to do things. But John and I
Speaker 1: and then Ernie Els and Mark we the we were
Speaker 1: the guys leading. But really John Ashworth led us and
Speaker 1: and Barry Grinds what a photographer, and he made us
Speaker 1: look like golfers but cool guys too, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I don't usually say that, but I felt like kind
Speaker 1: of a cool guy. We still that's that's still the
Speaker 1: model for every but the model is not shooting on
Speaker 1: a golf course and getting as gritty. And at first
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, really, we're gonna go to
Speaker 1: this warehouse that there's shipped all over the ground whatever,
Speaker 1: And then yeah, it's like, okay, let's go against the grain.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not gonna look like anybody else. I mean,
Speaker 1: we actually did the hall the black and white stuff
Speaker 1: because A we couldn't afford color. It was twice as expensive,
Speaker 1: but b it just looks so cool because it just
Speaker 1: stood out. It didn't look like any stupid ads you
Speaker 1: know that were some guy in a golf course with
Speaker 1: a red sweater on and you know, perfect green grass
Speaker 1: or whatever. Obviously, whatever they did and how they did
Speaker 1: it was working. The Ashworth brand achieved rock star status.
Speaker 1: Couples won the Masters, cook was winning multiple tour events,
Speaker 1: els won several major championships wearing Ashworth. From selling shirts
Speaker 1: out of John Ashworth's trunk, both he and Barry built
Speaker 1: a ninety million dollar business. You know, it was just
Speaker 1: sort of a period of time where everything lined up.
Speaker 1: You know, everything just clicked into place. I mean, and
Speaker 1: without even thinking about it or knowing. It was just
Speaker 1: sort of this timing of everything happening. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's a ton of hard work, but it was just
Speaker 1: all happening. That was then this is now more from
Speaker 1: Jeff Cunningham. John told me that you are too link
Speaker 1: soul what Barry was to Ashworth. What's that mean to you?
Speaker 1: That's a ton, Yeah, I could see that. And it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Ashworth was so much Barry's baby, like there was no
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we talked honestly about going back
Speaker 1: to Ashworth and and fixing it up, and I was
Speaker 1: thinking on my head, you just you can't do it
Speaker 1: without Barry, like it was his thing. And and John
Speaker 1: and him, they they had that I I learned. I mean,
Speaker 1: Ashworth for me was grad school for this and where
Speaker 1: all this stemmed from. But that was his baby and
Speaker 1: and as much as this is my baby and John's
Speaker 1: baby too. So I asked Jeff how and why Barry
Speaker 1: still influences his design and photography. It's funny because I
Speaker 1: still have his voice in my head pretty much daily,
Speaker 1: especially in photography and graphic design, because it wasn't just
Speaker 1: photography with Barry, he knew graphic design. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Johnny would say he probably knew that better. I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know anything about fonts and type a
Speaker 1: graphy and all these things. And Very study that stuff
Speaker 1: endlessly and could point out he knew every single font
Speaker 1: that ever showed up and everything. He could name it,
Speaker 1: every every part of it. And he and he could
Speaker 1: see when things were imperfect. And you know, it's one
Speaker 1: of those things that could drive you crazy. And I
Speaker 1: think that very kind of went crazy with it a
Speaker 1: little bit sometimes. But at the same time, it pushes
Speaker 1: me in my head all the time, like what would
Speaker 1: Bury do here? Like is he would he keep going?
Speaker 1: Would this be? You know, am I willing to put
Speaker 1: this in the world looking like this? Or should I
Speaker 1: actually take another hour at two o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: and make this thing look even one step better? Did
Speaker 1: you get a chance to ever communicate to him what
Speaker 1: he meant to you? Did you ever get a chance
Speaker 1: before he left to just, you know, let him know
Speaker 1: how much you appreciated him or what he meant to you.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't, and I and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: usually something that would haunt me. But it doesn't haunt
Speaker 1: me because I feel like he at some point because
Speaker 1: I've I've followed him so much and and it's so
Speaker 1: clear how he changed my photography and my graphic design
Speaker 1: all the time. But I think in the end he
Speaker 1: probably had to see all that as an homage in
Speaker 1: a way I would if I were him, because I
Speaker 1: mean it was very clear and I and I just
Speaker 1: felt like he knew that for some reason. And I
Speaker 1: feel like he knows that now wherever he is. I
Speaker 1: just I feel like he's still out there guiding things.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I asked John Ashworth if he thought Barry
Speaker 1: Grimes left this world feeling respected and appreciated. He was
Speaker 1: struggling with brain cancer, so you never know what's going
Speaker 1: on what's really important. I don't know how much that
Speaker 1: was important to him. You know, he has two kids
Speaker 1: and two beautiful kids, a beautiful wife, and that's why
Speaker 1: we're you know, Jeff and I. It's Jeff's idea, which
Speaker 1: is a fabulous idea to take one of his photographs
Speaker 1: it's timeless, and put it into a T shirt so
Speaker 1: that we could actually you know, they're going through a
Speaker 1: big transition. Obviously, they don't have their key breadwinner, and
Speaker 1: you know, kids are in college, senior in high school,
Speaker 1: so you know, we're trying to raise some money just
Speaker 1: to just to help him out a bit. So I
Speaker 1: I you know, I think, you know, I think he
Speaker 1: was very secure with what his talent was and how
Speaker 1: he was respected. For sure, Um, I'm not sure, you know,
Speaker 1: at that point in his life. It was a big
Speaker 1: priority to to realize that. You know, I was lucky.
Speaker 1: I got a chance to kind of spend a fair
Speaker 1: amount of time, you know, towards the end with him,
Speaker 1: and uh, I felt like he was pretty, he was
Speaker 1: in a good place. You know, something like that shouldn't
Speaker 1: happen to anybody, but you know, it's shouldn't have happened
Speaker 1: to him. Link Soul has used the making and selling
Speaker 1: of T shirts to contribute to a worthy cause. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: lately they've had several worthy causes and with your help,
Speaker 1: they're making a difference. But we've reached this this new
Speaker 1: thing with Links Soul in this Corona year, COVID year,
Speaker 1: where you know, we're starting to realize. But it's always
Speaker 1: kind of been a goal of ours to to give
Speaker 1: back as many ways we possibly can um with what
Speaker 1: we make and what we're good at. So it's been
Speaker 1: working this year with the charity T shirts for COVID
Speaker 1: Relief and make part of War Foundation, all that stuff
Speaker 1: we've you know, we're raised like three dollars this year
Speaker 1: just through three T shirt designs and plus you know
Speaker 1: like Johnson and over and over again links. So it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here, This wouldn't be happening if it wasn't
Speaker 1: for Barry too. So it's the least we can do.
Speaker 1: The Barry Grames photograph they chose to put on the
Speaker 1: T shirt is a pin flag whipping in the wind.
Speaker 1: For me, it's a strong one. I think it's just
Speaker 1: catches soul and it catches um, you know, time and
Speaker 1: golf and everything in one little moment. You know that
Speaker 1: those brief little things you see, And that's what he
Speaker 1: was so good at, was all those things we see
Speaker 1: as golfers when we're walking around, you know, before Instagram,
Speaker 1: before all this stuff. Barry caught all those things that
Speaker 1: you know. That's what that's what made it, That's what
Speaker 1: made the ashworth two is that like he was catching
Speaker 1: those soulful moments in the moment that we all see
Speaker 1: when we're walking around plan but we just didn't ever
Speaker 1: get on film. And Barry started capturing when all those
Speaker 1: and putting them out and joining people, and they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that about golf. I love the way the
Speaker 1: shadow hits that bunker right there, you know, at this
Speaker 1: time of day, etcetera. We didn't have a million Instagram
Speaker 1: accounts to see all this stuff all over the place,
Speaker 1: so you know, he was He was the o g
Speaker 1: It is a beautiful it's a beautiful photograph, have an
Speaker 1: esoteric sort of timeless, otherworldly look to it, and it
Speaker 1: is very quintessential Barry Grimes too, isn't Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: So let's pour some out for Barry Grimes to his
Speaker 1: life a legacy and his family. To purchase the Grimes
Speaker 1: T shirt, go to link soul dot com. All proceeds
Speaker 1: will help Barry's family and their future On behalf of Kristen,
Speaker 1: Paul and Charlie, thank you for your support of one
Speaker 1: of golf's greatest influencers. Lastly, and on a lighter note,
Speaker 1: one more quick reflection of memory from John and Jeff.
Speaker 1: I don't know it was. We had so much fun
Speaker 1: together too. Honestly, we had so much freaking fun just
Speaker 1: figuring it out as we went and like bouncing ship
Speaker 1: off and I'd be up at his you know, I
Speaker 1: we we'd always pull all nighters because you know, we're
Speaker 1: trying to lay out either the catalog or something print
Speaker 1: wise or do you know whatever, usually catalog or annual report.
Speaker 1: Being a public company, we had to do an annual
Speaker 1: report anyway, and he was he was kind of a procrastinator.
Speaker 1: With the best we got, we called it OPT to
Speaker 1: my eazy that was it wasn't procrastination. We feel like
Speaker 1: we'd get the most out of it the closer we
Speaker 1: came to the dentaline