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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Thursday, April ninth, and yes,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. Sean Diddy Coombs

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Speaker 2: is back in federal court today. He wants out. Is

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Speaker 2: it possible that will happen? Plus Milania Trump big big

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Speaker 2: announcement today, She came out and had a press conference,

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Speaker 2: really distancing herself from any relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 3: Also Keith Layton, we mentioned this last night.

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Speaker 2: He's a former DEA agent who's joining us to talk

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Speaker 2: to us about all things wiretaps, which is one of

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Speaker 2: those topics that we all us can't get enough of.

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Speaker 3: But first, listen, body is out today.

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Speaker 2: She's not feeling well. Listen, we heard it a little

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Speaker 2: bit last night. Those allergies are really kicked in. So

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Speaker 2: we're wishing you good healthy spirits body. And it's Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and Taha House in the seat with us tonight.

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Speaker 2: And of course we have Sam and Adam in the

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Speaker 2: control room, who are standing by waiting for your call.

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Speaker 3: Eight eight, eight to three one crime. So listen.

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Speaker 2: This Bahamas case, we obviously been talking about it all week.

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Speaker 3: By the way, we made it to the end of

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Speaker 3: the week. It's so good to be with you, guys.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be here. Great to be here. So

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Speaker 3: this Bahamas case is a troubling one.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: Again, when it first happened, the story was, you know,

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Speaker 2: she fell off the boat. It was accidental with the keys.

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Speaker 2: But now the husband has been arrested, and also there

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Speaker 2: have been some new troubling voicemails that are very concerning

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Speaker 2: that have been now released. And Courtney, you've obviously been

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Speaker 2: following this, so clo closely tell us everything.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, this this investigation continues and it's all centering

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Speaker 5: around the disappearance of Lynette Hooker. So she's a woman,

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Speaker 5: she's American, but she was voting in the Bahamas with

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Speaker 5: her husband, Brian Hooker, and she vanished on Saturday evening

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Speaker 5: while on a trip. And her husband, Brian claims that

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Speaker 5: Lynette fell overboard. There were difficult weather conditions, but tides

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Speaker 5: have changed. Didn't mean that pun and a lot has

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Speaker 5: come out. Media outlets have started publishing voicemail sent by

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Speaker 5: Brian Hooker, and again he has been arrested in connection

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Speaker 5: with the disappearance. Interestingly, no formal charges have yet been

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Speaker 5: filed and Brian's attorney is absolutely maintaining Brian Hooker is,

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Speaker 5: you know, not at fault for any wrongdoing and is cooperating.

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Speaker 5: So that's the long and short of it. But we

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Speaker 5: have a talkback to go to.

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Speaker 4: I true, I'm listening to your most recent podcast talking

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Speaker 4: about what happened in the Bahamas with that couple. When

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Speaker 4: this first broke the news, I turned to my husband

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Speaker 4: and I said, he did it. It's going to come

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Speaker 4: out in about seven to ten days, and it's going

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Speaker 4: to be a dateline episode in two years, mark my words.

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Speaker 2: Listen, then if we can beat them, isn't that the truth?

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Speaker 3: Right? So yeah, we completely say to.

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Speaker 5: Me, that's what you said you were from jump. You're

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Speaker 5: like this is fishy, and I, as always I'm like,

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Speaker 5: I'm witholding you know, any kind of judgment, But listen,

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Speaker 5: you and the talkback were absolutely correct.

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Speaker 2: This one gave me a spighty sense and I don't

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Speaker 2: always jump on board with that but yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: something about this didn't add up. But let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: it's really her daughter's testimony, you know, to authorities basically

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Speaker 2: that I think really made things turn around.

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Speaker 3: You know, she was not convinced.

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Speaker 2: This was her stepfather, who you know, claimed this was

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Speaker 2: an unfortunate, tragic accident, and she really wasn't buying it.

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Speaker 3: And it sounds like he was.

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Speaker 2: Surprised to hear that that he felt he had a

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Speaker 2: very close relationship with his stepdaughter.

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Speaker 6: That was just going to jump in and say that,

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Speaker 6: Like I think last night we were saying how she

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Speaker 6: heard she got a message from her father and his

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Speaker 6: demeanor seemed very kind of chill and relaxed, and I thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 6: you know, who knows what this situation is. But when

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Speaker 6: I heard the clip, which the audio, it actually did

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Speaker 6: change my attitude a little bit too. And we actually

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Speaker 6: do have that.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear it.

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Speaker 6: Listen to it.

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Speaker 7: Hello, Annie, I just got a call.

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Speaker 8: From Hopetown Search and Rescue and they have found a

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Speaker 8: flotation device that I threw to mom when she fell overboard,

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Speaker 8: and so there they haven't found her yet, but they

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Speaker 8: can now focus all of their efforts in a smaller

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Speaker 8: area and they're still out there searching today. So I

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Speaker 8: just wanted to update you and let you know I

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Speaker 8: love it. I'll talk to you later.

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Speaker 7: Bye bye.

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Speaker 3: Why does he sound like he's giving good news.

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Speaker 2: It sounds so amissing too, Like he's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, the flotation device turning up is not good news.

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Speaker 2: It's actually very tragic news because that means that she

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Speaker 2: may not have survived the water. So that to me

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Speaker 2: seems very grave in fact, not that we're wishing that,

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Speaker 2: we are praying for the safest, most perfect return obviously,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, that's this unsettling voicemail. Can you imagine your

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Speaker 2: stepdad leaving that so nonchalantly your mother is missing.

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Speaker 5: You know, without knowing the man like my father in

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Speaker 5: law actually comes to mind, and I now, in almost

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Speaker 5: twenty years, I can't imagine him raising beyond that level

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Speaker 5: of tone of void really the truth. Yeah, and we've

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Speaker 5: heard all kinds of news over twenty years. Okay, you know,

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Speaker 5: you know that's fair happening.

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Speaker 2: So however, that's a matter of factness to it, which

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Speaker 2: you know, by the way, can you also imagine, just

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Speaker 2: to play play on that a little bit with you

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Speaker 2: court you're in shop, like you can't even believe he's

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Speaker 2: like ordering a ham sandwich is what it sounds like.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, because he's in survival mode potentially, and this

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Speaker 2: is a trauma response.

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Speaker 3: Possibly possibly.

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Speaker 5: However, you were correct to mention that Lynette Hooker the

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Speaker 5: missing woman. It was really her daughter, Carly Aylesworth, and

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Speaker 5: she raised concerns from the beginning. She also made some

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Speaker 5: allegations regarding the suspect, Brian Hooker's potential involvement in her

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Speaker 5: mother's disappearance. So Harley, the daughter was raising the alarms.

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Speaker 5: And then have you guys heard about the recent reports

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Speaker 5: of an old domestic violence incident.

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Speaker 2: Something that happened in twenty fifteen, correct.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right.

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Speaker 5: So back in twenty fifteen, so we are talking eleven

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Speaker 5: years ago, there was a domestic violence incident. It happened

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Speaker 5: at their Michigan home and it involved Lynette and Brian.

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Speaker 5: During the altercation, both Brian and Lynette accused each other

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Speaker 5: of assault. At the time, police noted that Brian was intoxicated,

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Speaker 5: he had a bloody nose, and Brian Hooker at the

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Speaker 5: time alleged that his wife, Lynette, who he claimed was

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Speaker 5: also intoxicated that Lynnette struck him multiple times in the face.

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Speaker 5: Lynette ultimately was arrested and spent a night in jail,

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Speaker 5: but the warrant was ultimately denied because there was insufficient

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Speaker 5: evidence regarding who initiated the assault.

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Speaker 2: Yet she spent the entire night in jail. You know,

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Speaker 2: that kind of felt a little unsettling to me and

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Speaker 2: just kind of reminded me a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 2: just a little bit. Again, we're not asserting that this

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Speaker 2: is a done deal or that Lynnette is lost, or

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Speaker 2: that he is the person who's done it.

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Speaker 3: He claims his innocence, really just to be clear.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Gabby Patito and Brian Laundry, they were

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Speaker 2: the young couple who you know, went across country van life,

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Speaker 2: you'll remember, and then she went missing and police pulled

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Speaker 2: them over because they were having an incident, and really

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Speaker 2: she took the heat for it, and ultimately a day

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Speaker 2: later turned up dead. Right, So or was missing and

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Speaker 2: later turned up dead by him. I just don't like it,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. For some reason that bothered me. So

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Speaker 2: he didn't have sufficient evidence yet they dragged her away

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Speaker 2: and had her spend the night in jail. Brutal On

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Speaker 2: the same hand, and we see things like this Taylor

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Speaker 2: Frankie Paul incident where the bachelorette and her ex those

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Speaker 2: two wild animals right, that tape was really difficult to see. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: these are all complicated, complicated issues.

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Speaker 6: But not necessarily because there's domestic violence. Is that meaning

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Speaker 6: you know he went as far as killing his wife,

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Speaker 6: So I know I'm going back and forth. In one breath,

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Speaker 6: I'm saying, Oh, it's making me think oddly.

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Speaker 3: About him because it's complicated.

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Speaker 7: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 6: So it is something to think about.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, if you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight.

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Speaker 5: I am Courtney Armstrong here this evening with Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 5: and Taha. How's and we have been talking about the

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Speaker 5: disappearance of Lynette Hooker. She's the woman who went missing

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Speaker 5: in the Bahamas after falling off her boat. Her husband

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Speaker 5: has been arrested. We'd love to hear your thoughts on

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Speaker 5: this eight at eight to three to one crime. And

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Speaker 5: people have actually a already sent talkbacks in about this case,

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Speaker 5: So let's grab another one.

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Speaker 9: Hi, guys, it's cricket in Connecticut calling about the woman

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Speaker 9: that went overboard in the Bahamas, and it seems a

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Speaker 9: little odd to me that somebody would have a key

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Speaker 9: that is in the ignition of the boat, also tucked

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Speaker 9: into their pants, so that when they mysteriously go overboard,

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Speaker 9: the key goes with them. I'm not sure if I

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Speaker 9: buy that as reasonable, just saying, hmmm.

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Speaker 3: So let's play that out.

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Speaker 2: Can we play that out for one second, just as

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Speaker 2: a theory, because it is a loose thread that has

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Speaker 2: been gnawing at me a little bit as well.

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Speaker 3: Great question, cricket.

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Speaker 2: Good to hear your voice. So he gives her the key,

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Speaker 2: puts it in her pocket. Remember we discussed it yesterday

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Speaker 2: that typically he is pretty controlling about the key, according

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Speaker 2: to her daughter, so she falls into the water. This

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Speaker 2: is harrowing with the key by design, he is guilty

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 3: Why would that be beneficial?

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be more beneficial for him to have the

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Speaker 2: key so that he could be on the boat and

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Speaker 2: pretend to search for her if in fact he had

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Speaker 2: ill intentions and this was premeditated.

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Speaker 6: Well, just playing devil's advocate, if I wanted to make

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Speaker 6: sure it looked like I wasn't involved, I can say

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Speaker 6: I didn't even have the key she fell over with

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Speaker 6: it and now you know, right right right?

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Speaker 2: So I had to be here, helpless with this harrowing

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Speaker 2: decision in the dark. Do I jump overboard in hopes

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Speaker 2: of saving her? Or do I stay with the boat

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Speaker 2: because I fear I won't be able to swim back

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Speaker 2: to it. That's a nightmare scenario. For some reason, that

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Speaker 2: scenario is so scary to me. Yeah, it's like the

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Speaker 2: scariest thing I've ever thought of.

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Speaker 3: In fact, well, of.

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Speaker 5: Course it is. It's open waters. We spoke last night

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Speaker 5: about the fact that the weather condestions were less than ideal.

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Speaker 5: I mean, to be floating away from a boat, yes,

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Speaker 5: And then do you if your loved one is in

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Speaker 5: the water. I don't know that I could ever live

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Speaker 5: with myself, so do you?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Gosh, So I want to believe that he's just destroyed

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Speaker 2: with guilt and sadness because he loves his wife so

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Speaker 2: much and he's just you know, lost his mind. But

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Speaker 2: wouldn't you sort of think that you would be screaming

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Speaker 2: and yelling and swimming all day trying to still find her.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, or show a little bit more freaked out emotion

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Speaker 6: in the voicemails that you're leading to your daughter. But

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Speaker 6: I did read somewhere that he has a little bit

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Speaker 6: of military background, so maybe sometimes a bit of measured kind.

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Speaker 3: Of Now.

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean to cut you off on that, but

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Speaker 2: to that point, just to add to that, I got excited.

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Speaker 2: Is it possible that he wanted to remain very calm

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Speaker 2: for his daughter because he's trying to stay even tempered.

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Speaker 2: Remember like as a mom, when you had a talk

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Speaker 2: like a baby baby, you know, your body temperature and

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Speaker 2: your heart rate really determined sometimes if your baby was okay,

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Speaker 2: if they were in the hospital for example, you know,

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Speaker 2: they would always say lower your heart rate, lower your

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Speaker 2: heart rates. So you're calm, your kids are calm. Maybe

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Speaker 2: that's what his tactic was. That's a good point, I

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Speaker 2: could see that.

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Speaker 3: Or he murdered his wife, which is such a bummer,

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Speaker 3: or that.

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Speaker 5: So, yeah, this is really captured a lot of people's

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Speaker 5: attentionion And like you guys said, it's complicated. Every case

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Speaker 5: that involves a married couple or a long term couple

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Speaker 5: in and of itself is complicated because think about.

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Speaker 3: There's so many instances.

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Speaker 5: And granted, right now we spoke about one that did

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Speaker 5: involve the police that did involve you know, some violence,

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Speaker 5: but there is so much you can point to back

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Speaker 5: and forth of the good.

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Speaker 2: But of course it's so true, you know, I'm sure exactly.

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Speaker 2: We've seen the photographs. Some of them look so happy,

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Speaker 2: right that she has such a happy phase. They look

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Speaker 2: like they're going to be they're on a boat. It

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Speaker 2: seems idealic and perfect. So yes, any relationship, certainly in marriage,

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Speaker 2: could probably have a highlight reel and a low light reel,

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Speaker 2: depending upon the story you're trying to tell.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, we should withhold judgment.

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Speaker 2: But the sister, you know, the daughter, I should say,

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Speaker 2: you know, feels not very conflicted.

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Speaker 6: It appears, Yeah, but I think they're going to try

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Speaker 6: to get away with a crime. I mean, if this

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Speaker 6: feels like another one where we're out in the ocean

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Speaker 6: somewhere and it feels like that's that's the one place

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Speaker 6: where I don't know if I want to be alone

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Speaker 6: with someone that I might have had some issues with,

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Speaker 6: because it seems like everything ends horribly and uh, there's

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Speaker 6: not a good way to find the body. The evidence is,

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Speaker 6: there's all a lot of circumstantial evidence, So that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: that one frightens me.

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Speaker 5: You know, in the water up on a cliff like

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Speaker 5: Gerhart Koeningg who is guilty of attempted manslaughter of his wife.

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Speaker 5: Thank god, his wife Ariel survived being hit by a

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Speaker 5: rock and almost thrown off a cliff. But that's another

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Speaker 5: instance of just being out and when you add elements

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Speaker 5: also to anything, it's so true.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, listen, we're gonna come right back because

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Speaker 2: I feel like we have a couple of more talkbacks

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Speaker 2: as well. Plus this Diddy wildness. Diddy's defense attorneys back

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Speaker 2: in court today because they're basically saying the judge is

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Speaker 2: given him stress because maybe he has a bone to

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Speaker 2: pick or is maybe holding some stuff against him, which

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Speaker 2: you know, the jurors found him innocent of. And it's

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Speaker 2: a fairly compelling argument. And yes, people are reporting did

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Speaker 2: he may walk even within the.

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Speaker 3: Next few days.

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Speaker 6: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So stay with that and also a little bit

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Speaker 2: more on this Epstein update and Milania Trump.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Keep it here.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Laidecker here with

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Speaker 2: my Courtney Armstrong. Listen, body is not feeling well. This evening,

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Speaker 2: so we miss your body feel better and Taha is

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Speaker 2: just jumping right in your grave real quick.

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Speaker 3: There he is, Come.

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Speaker 2: On, Taha, he is ready to rumble and take a name.

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Speaker 3: So welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: And if you're just joining us eight eight eight three

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Speaker 2: one crime, we'd love to hear from you. Sam and

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Speaker 2: Adam are standing by, or you could always leave us

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Speaker 2: a talk back. So Sean Diddy Combs, I've been dying

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Speaker 2: to talk to you guys about this all day. So

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Speaker 2: he snuck in there somehow. Not Sean personally, but his

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Speaker 2: attorneys came to court today and they are really putting

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Speaker 2: up a big appeal and they have some new arguments

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Speaker 2: that are fairly compelling. Have you guys heard anything about

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Speaker 2: this yet. Yes, I'm so curious to hear your take.

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Speaker 5: I know you think it might be you know, kind

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Speaker 5: of provocative or compelling, and I you lay it out

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Speaker 5: and I have different opinions.

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Speaker 6: Yet because I haven't heard.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so it's two party, right, So two part one.

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Speaker 2: I'll give it in Layman's terms and then we can

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Speaker 2: read more of the specifics. But the first part is

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Speaker 2: he's really basically claiming that the judge who we found

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Speaker 2: very measured and tempered, basically kind of has a bone

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Speaker 2: to pick with him, or has sort of the inability

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Speaker 2: to remain indifferent and is sort of kind of convicting

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Speaker 2: him for four years for crimes that the jurors really

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Speaker 2: did not convict him for, so meaning the judge was

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Speaker 2: a little too hard on him because maybe of his lifestyle,

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Speaker 2: maybe some of the things that he has heard, they

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Speaker 2: were never able to prove the trafficking of it all,

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Speaker 2: and just the idea of having women or men who

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Speaker 2: were escorts traveling across state lines that just maybe the

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Speaker 2: world in general was also something that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the judge was holding against him a little bit. Accordney,

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Speaker 3: what do you think of that.

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Speaker 5: I think that this is a hail mary on the

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Speaker 5: defense's part. I think they are doing their job. I

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Speaker 5: think this whole thing is unwarranted. I think that the judge, listen,

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Speaker 5: the judge, if you wanted to go and be absolutely punishable,

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Speaker 5: he could have given ten years, and he didn't, so.

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Speaker 3: We thought he would too.

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Speaker 2: I actually think he was a little light on Diddy

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Speaker 2: based on what we have seen. Also, is it possible

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Speaker 2: that some of the video that was seen you know

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Speaker 2: of him, you know, beating his ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura

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Speaker 2: in the hotel lobby. Remember did he wasn't being a

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Speaker 2: charge for domestic violence.

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Speaker 3: This was federal charges. It was racketeering.

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Speaker 2: There was, you know, the the ambiguous sex trafficking part

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Speaker 2: of it that was up for discussion. I don't know, man,

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Speaker 2: this seems like a real Hail Mary as well.

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Speaker 3: To me.

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Speaker 2: The part that I was like, wow, he's really playing

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Speaker 2: all in right now, but there could be something technical

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Speaker 2: to this is the additive that he's saying the escorts

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Speaker 2: or the people that he flew across state lines for,

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Speaker 2: you know, his freak offs, and of course those freak offs,

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Speaker 2: you guys will remember, sorry mom, cover your ears, were

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Speaker 2: essentially just drug fueled sex parties, right that went on

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Speaker 2: for days, Remember the hotel nights when the hotels were

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Speaker 2: like damp from all of the oil that they were using.

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Speaker 2: So he's now claiming that that wasn't a freak off

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Speaker 2: or you know, even a consensual relationship between he and

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Speaker 2: and his lovers, which is what he once said in trial.

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Speaker 2: But rather these were amateure. These were amateur porn films. Basically,

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Speaker 2: he was basically making adult videos and amateur pornography and

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Speaker 2: everyone should just let it go.

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Speaker 5: Okay, And I appreciate that that is the defense is

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Speaker 5: it's one of their two main arguments is this amateur pornography,

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Speaker 5: which of course is that's protected by the First Amendment,

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Speaker 5: as opposed to you know, the illegal prostitution as he

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Speaker 5: was found guilty of by the Man Act. Right, So

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Speaker 5: what I think of that argument is that it is

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Speaker 5: too little and it is too late. The trial happened

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Speaker 5: in front of a jury, they found him guilty, and

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Speaker 5: that's it. I mean, it's too little, too late, that's right.

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Speaker 6: Ki can both be true. Kit couldn't. He also couldn't

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Speaker 6: be amateur pornography, but he did also hire prostitutes like

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Speaker 6: that was a violation that is defined as the Man Act.

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Speaker 6: So I guess what I'm not following is how what

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Speaker 6: it is that they think should have happened is such

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Speaker 6: a great question.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, the First Amendment being such a

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Speaker 2: precious thing which we all would agree with or to

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Speaker 2: the odds body, I was so excited to have her

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Speaker 2: wigh in on this. We'll have to ask her on Sunday. Yes,

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Speaker 2: his First Amendment rights should be held, but even if

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Speaker 2: he was making adult films that were amateur and everybody

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Speaker 2: was participating with Will, he was still being abusive.

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Speaker 3: By testimony that we have heard.

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Speaker 2: So even if that was like a set, wasn't the

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Speaker 2: abuse or the behavior that was testified about still not okay?

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Speaker 6: Yes, it's definitely not okay. But I think, if correct me, Courtney,

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Speaker 6: because I know you or see a little or know

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Speaker 6: a little about this, that's a completely separate offense that

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Speaker 6: they're concerned about. The defense is also saying separately, there

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Speaker 6: are abuse allegations, and I think, if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 6: that his defense is saying that that shouldn't even factor

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Speaker 6: in in this scenario, like the Cassie abuse of everything

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Speaker 6: that we've seen, that shouldn't even be considered in the

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Speaker 6: totality of this case, which I disagree with, like the

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Speaker 6: entire time we've been talking about it. I'm like, I

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Speaker 6: feel like all of this it ties in with the

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Speaker 6: entire situation that has been in and it.

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Speaker 3: Is one of those technicalities.

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Speaker 2: Though I don't know this, I thought will be interesting

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Speaker 2: to see how Judge Submarinean kind of decides on this one,

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Speaker 2: because again we're getting into technicality talk here. You know

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Speaker 2: what it bothers me though, never do we ever really

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Speaker 2: hear did he say, you know what, I'm sorry, I'm

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Speaker 2: really sorry, man, I take it all back, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it all feels like these tend gestures. And boy, after

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Speaker 2: that documentary that dropped the reckoning by fifty cent, if

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen it, please do you know you think

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Speaker 2: you'd be groveling at least or a little bit more.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, Oh my Stephanie, he could not have

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Speaker 5: been farther than that. You know you're saying. He didn't

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Speaker 5: even apologize. No, Instead, he put up a you know,

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Speaker 5: this ridiculous video of kids from the Boys and Girls

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Speaker 5: Club like searing his name running through the streets because

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Speaker 5: he's such a great guy. That's that's what he did.

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Speaker 5: That's eden say I'm sorry, he said. Give me applause.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, you're so right. I blocked out that video.

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Speaker 2: And if you're just misremembering anybody, Courtney Armstrong, you're so clever.

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Speaker 3: It's so true.

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Speaker 2: Right for closing arguments, which is again something that the

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Speaker 2: judge we all thought I'd never seen that before. How

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Speaker 2: about closing arguments where you just press play and the

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Speaker 2: play was just a love letter a video to Diddy, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, most judges would never allow for that

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Speaker 2: was definitely a win on the ditty front. Cringey as

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Speaker 2: we all found it, because it seemed incredibly tone deaf

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Speaker 2: him with his little babies and hugging on its kids,

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Speaker 2: you know, despite the fact that we had already seen

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Speaker 2: too much. I guess that's the line. He's saying, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you guys saw too much, and the judge is now

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Speaker 2: unable to remove those images from his mind.

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Speaker 3: By the way, isn't that the judge's job. He does

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Speaker 3: this all day, right, isn't it exactly what the judge's

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Speaker 3: job is is.

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Speaker 2: To remove all the other things that are not pertaining

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Speaker 2: to the case from his mind.

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Speaker 3: That's why he's the judge. He's very good at that.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean that is my feeling. That is absolutely

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Speaker 5: my feeling. So this will be you know, this will

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Speaker 5: be interesting to see. There were two hours of arguments

436
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 5: and it was overseen by Circuit Judge William Norden, who

437
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 5: said acknowledged this is an exceptionally difficult case and that

438
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 5: it does raise questions of first impression, not only for

439
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 5: the court he was presiding over, but for any federal

440
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 5: court in the country, So we'll see again. I think

441
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 5: it seems superfluous on the defense's part.

442
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: But if this, I love that word.

443
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 6: It's a great superfluous.

444
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 5: Say it again, superfluous. So that is what I feel

445
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 5: about the motions. But if this, you know, Judge Norden

446
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 5: feels differently, who's to say. But obviously we'll keep on

447
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 5: it because he just keeps coming.

448
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: He has a lot of curve. He just got like

449
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: a win too, didn't he just get his sentence reduced.

450
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: He's like reduced while.

451
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 5: We're at it.

452
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: I'd like to walk home tonight reduce.

453
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 6: It even more. If he gets out early, I mean

454
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 6: people are going to be it's going to be an uproar.

455
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 6: But because to your earlier point four years already felt

456
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 6: like a light sentence. So if anything less is there's

457
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 6: a deduction with that. I'm going in the street with

458
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 6: a flame and a pitchfork because this is ridiculous.

459
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 7: Yeah.

460
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 2: I was wondering if they were going to add some

461
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 2: on because they watched the documentary.

462
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: Listen Why We Have You?

463
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: There was a couple of like real bombs that were

464
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: dropped in this recent documentary. I don't know if you

465
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: caught it from prison, But did you kill biggie?

466
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 7: Like?

467
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: That's pretty major? You know, is Tupac on your hands?

468
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: Where is the line so to to go from that,

469
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 2: which of course has not been proven, and he says

470
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: he has no, no, no part of but there was

471
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 2: some compelling stuff there. So to go from that to nothing?

472
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 6: Wow?

473
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 9: Wow?

474
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: Who knows? Stranger things have happened though, Court, that is

475
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: a fact.

476
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 5: If you're just joining us, you're listening to true crime tonight,

477
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 5: and we're just talking about the fact that Shansy Combs

478
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: his attorneys are trying to get his prison sentence lowered.

479
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 5: That remains to be seen what will happen. But in

480
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 5: the meantime, we have a talkback to.

481
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 10: Go to Hi, I am just on the flip side

482
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 10: of this Pam Bondi thing, and I think that maybe

483
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 10: she has all of the information and was going to

484
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 10: blow the lid off this thing, and she was fired

485
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 10: to suppress all of the information, and that's why she's

486
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 10: been sent to this private sector.

487
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: Or what have you.

488
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 3: Now.

489
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 10: I mean, there's so many lies and things and who

490
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 10: knows what's really going on that I think it's the

491
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 10: exact opposite of what has been.

492
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: Told thank you.

493
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: I by the way, that is a juicy take on this.

494
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: You imagine, by the way, it hadn't even occurred to me.

495
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: That's a great observation. What a gangster move that would

496
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: be of Pam Bondi in the eleventh hour on behalf

497
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: of all survivors and victims throughout the land and all

498
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: one thousand plus women and men who have come forward

499
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: against Epstein, and she's like, you know what, I'm going out,

500
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: And that's why she got She did kind of get

501
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: booted at the back door for really no apparent reason.

502
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 5: Well, some people listen, there could be really infinite reasons.

503
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: And could she have been about to expose everything in

504
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 5: the files? Perhaps that seems deeply unlikely to me personally.

505
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: And even Todd Blanche who is now the new Pam Bondy,

506
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: even he said that the only person who really knows

507
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: why Pam Bondi was fired was or is President Trump?

508
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: Interesting?

509
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 5: You know, I had an interesting thing I was listening

510
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 5: to regarding Pam Bondi's firing and a lot of that

511
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 5: reporting that came out of the New York Times, you know,

512
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 5: according to the multiple sources, the indication was largely that

513
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: Pam Bondy has been ineffective at what Trump's was very

514
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 5: clear and playing about, you know, his retribution to her

515
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 5: really of trying to get people in prison who wronged him,

516
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 5: and that's been it's been going very poorly. Cases have

517
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 5: been kicked out, under kicked out, and that that was

518
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 5: the real rationale. Who knows it could have been part

519
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 5: of the rationale.

520
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 6: Logical, but that right.

521
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: Because she has not been able to get convictions here.

522
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: And by that you mean the convictions of James Comy

523
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: for example, or many of the others who have been

524
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: targeted because of ill things that they had said about

525
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: President Trump in his first term.

526
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 6: Is that act?

527
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: That's right, That's exactly right.

528
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would believe that more so than she was

529
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 6: going to release more of the Epstein files. I feel

530
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 6: like she would be a little more guarded and protected

531
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 6: with that, but who knows. And speaking of, you know,

532
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 6: the Epstein files, I think today there was some big

533
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 6: news with First Lady Milania Trump regarding the Epstein files,

534
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 6: and I think that's something we should probably mention if

535
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 6: we want to.

536
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: Mention, Yeah, I want to unpack that that is like

537
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: big breaking news. In fact, I don't think we'll even

538
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,479
Speaker 2: have enough time. We'll have to probably catch it right

539
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: after this quick break, right because I think I can

540
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: play a little portion of that.

541
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: I'm dying to talk to you guys about it.

542
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 6: Let's do that. Let's play the clip, and then we'll

543
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 6: follow up with it in the next segment, because there's

544
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 6: a lot to unpack with that.

545
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 11: I have never had any knowledge of epstein abuse of

546
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 11: his victims. I was never involved in any capacity. I

547
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 11: was not a participant, was never on Epstein's plane, and

548
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 11: never visited his private island. I have never been legally

549
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 11: accused or convinced of a crime in connection with Epstein's

550
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 11: sex trafficking, abuse of minors, and other repulsive behavior. The

551
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 11: false smears about me from mean spirited and politically motivated individuals,

552
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 11: entities looking to cause damage to my good name to

553
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 11: gain financially and climb politically must stop.

554
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 5: This is so notable, largely because how rarely does First

555
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: Lady Milania Trump, you know, make addresses. First of all,

556
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 5: So I mean that raises the importance level.

557
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's true. So this one, we're going to dig

558
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 6: into that one. And also I think we're going to

559
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 6: talk a little bit about other people that have been

560
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 6: subpoened in this So I think that's something I want

561
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 6: to dig into. And I know Stephanie and what you

562
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 6: both do.

563
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: So we're talking about this really unprecedented, unexpected, incredibly wild

564
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: press conference that was given by the First Lady Milania

565
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: Trump today and she really did give a seven minute

566
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: presentation or a speech basically saying she did not have

567
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and any suggestion to the

568
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: otherwise is in a curate and would need to stop now,

569
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: and continued to say what I thought was staggering, where

570
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: she basically says, listen, some of the victims, if we

571
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: want to do open I'm paraphrasing, by the way, public trials,

572
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: so the victims can actually go before Congress and be

573
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: formally on record before Congress under oath in public.

574
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: Should the victims want.

575
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: To do that, that they should have their moment in court.

576
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: And you know, look she did say that, Look, my

577
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: husband and I did not meet through Donald Trump.

578
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: That was like some of the.

579
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: Gossip that we've heard throughout you know, that's been said

580
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: many many times. It's been said, I don't know that

581
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: I'm seeing that all over the news, or that Milania

582
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: Trump is being associated too too much with Epstein. I

583
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: don't even know that that was the suggestion per se,

584
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: but it appears that she is no longer having it

585
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: and really is advocating for victyms to come forward and

586
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: have a public trial so that they can be heard

587
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: and hopefully find justice. That is the presentation. But it

588
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: came out of nowhere, and there's been all these new reports.

589
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: Some say that Trump was aware of this. That was

590
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: the early report that CN ended earlier in the day

591
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: when this first happened, and then now later breaking news

592
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: before we came on the air. Their reports are saying

593
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: that President Trump was not aware of this press announcement

594
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: that she gave.

595
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it was.

596
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: Pretty on the money in terms of, you know, the flags,

597
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: and it was a presentation. This was presidential of sorts

598
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: and probably took a lot of courage.

599
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: So I'm so curious what you guys think. What do

600
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: you make of this?

601
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 6: Well? Am I the only one that finds it hard

602
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 6: to believe that he wouldn't have known about this, Like

603
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 6: it seems like he should and would be aware of

604
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 6: something so monumental that she's coming out to say that

605
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 6: part to me sounded a little unusual. I would believe

606
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 6: more so that he was aware.

607
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 3: Courty, what do you think.

608
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 5: I think it is such a high unlikelihood that he

609
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 5: didn't know about this.

610
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: Like I said, that was a flag, that was a podium,

611
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: and of course he knew.

612
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 5: And then maybe I know he was asked in an

613
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 5: interview and he said he didn't know about the details.

614
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 5: Maybe he didn't like how it came out at the end,

615
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 5: But why would that be the case?

616
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: So let's just play out both scenarios because they're both

617
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: a little confusing. So one scenario, let's go with this

618
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: one that President Trump knew, by the way, and a

619
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: husband knew that his wife in the first lady was

620
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: going to have this really unexpected big press conference. Remember,

621
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: there's been zero interest in anybody surrounding President Trump to

622
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 2: talk about the Epstein files. You mean Todd Blanche you know,

623
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: just this week or said that we wouldn't be hearing

624
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: any more about it.

625
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: We should all move on. And Donald Trump.

626
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: Himself has always called it a hoax and that there

627
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: wasn't anything to see specifically, So even by Malania saying

628
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: that there were in fact crimes, does in fact say

629
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: a lot and that he did not act alone. That

630
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: was a staggering sentence, that Epstein did not act alone

631
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: her when her better half or her other half is

632
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: saying that there's nothing there and there's never been anything

633
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: there and this has been a hoax from day one,

634
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: very conflicting images. So what would be the upside to

635
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: him sending his wife out in public to bring the

636
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: Epstein conversation back up when they've been trying to distance themselves.

637
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I could, uh win, this is adring it, Adam,

638
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 3: go ahead.

639
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 12: I just think it's so weird that this happened today,

640
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 12: Like was this even like in the like public conversation,

641
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 12: Like I feel like I wasn't hearing any conversation about

642
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 12: Milania meeting Trump through Epstein or anything, So like why

643
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 12: would she put all of this like a spotlight on herself?

644
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 12: And and yeah, you're what you guys are saying is interesting.

645
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 12: It's like now she's saying things that Tromp has denied.

646
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: The very opposite messaging. It's very strange.

647
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 6: So let's just.

648
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: Play out another scenario. Oh sorry, taha, go ahead.

649
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 6: No, I was just going to say the only theory,

650
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 6: which I think you know a few friends and people

651
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 6: have said sometimes you'll do this if you want to

652
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 6: get ahead of something that's happening. So maybe there's a

653
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 6: world where something is about to happen that She's like, Okay,

654
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 6: let me quickly get out there. Make sure I'm not

655
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 6: a part of that. I mean, that's that's the one

656
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 6: side of a b.

657
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 2: So let's play that out. Let's play that scenario out.

658
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: So the scenario being that a little bit similar to

659
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: when Prince Andrew took their last real hit.

660
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 3: Remember they were.

661
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: Like, hey, by the way, even though no one's talking

662
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 2: about Prince Andrew today, but we, of course all had

663
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: been for a very long time, all the rumors circulating

664
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: his involvement in the Epstein files. But out of nowhere

665
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 2: kind of prior to this big dump, the you know,

666
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: Buckingham Palace was like, yeah, no more titles for you,

667
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: no more home for you. It seemed a little out

668
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: of nowhere, even though their big news was still to come.

669
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 2: So yet to your point, that is kind of the playbook, right,

670
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: let me get ahead of it. So it seemed as

671
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: though the you know, Buckingham Palace and the King and

672
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: all of them were like, oh, this is about to

673
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: hit the news, So let's make sure that we cut

674
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: ties now because we have some insider info. That's a

675
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: little bit how it read to me as oof is there?

676
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: You know, if the implication is that Epstein was the

677
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: great blackmailer, like we've talked about to nauseum, is that

678
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: playing a part anywhere? And is like, why would Malania

679
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: Trump elegantly come out and speak on behalf of the

680
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: victims that her own husband has suggested our lying And

681
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: why would he want her to do that if in

682
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: fact he knew about it?

683
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 5: Well, her office, the Office of the First Lady, sent

684
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 5: an email out yesterday notifying that there would be a

685
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 5: statement made at the White House today. So this was

686
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 5: this was public knowledge, this was planned.

687
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 7: And is it.

688
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: Possible that they thought it was about childcare or something

689
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: or like the state of the Union, and oh, you

690
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: know her infancy, she does have a real passion for

691
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: young children, So you know, maybe it's pot I mean,

692
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: there's obviously a lot going on right now in the

693
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: White House.

694
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: I would assume I hope at the Pentagon.

695
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: They're you know, all hands on deck dealing with a

696
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: ceasefire and so many other things in the world. Is

697
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 2: it possible that she was on the books to give

698
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: you know, a little speech maybe about child development or

699
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: something kind of in her ether of things that she's

700
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: spoken out about as a mission previously, and then she

701
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: came out and like dropped any information that could be

702
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: catastrophic within her own family.

703
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 6: Now, I think you're onto something there.

704
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Now.

705
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 6: It's that's that's where my mind is going now that

706
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 6: maybe she was always supposed to come out and say something.

707
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 6: He was aware, but whatever she wound up saying, maybe

708
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 6: they shifted a few lines in who that she said,

709
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 6: and that's why the sort of like I didn't know

710
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 6: if she was going to come out and say that.

711
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 6: Maybe it's specifically what she said. Maybe I don't know.

712
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: It's kind of strophic.

713
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: I also saw Lisa Phillips, who was the victim slash

714
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: survivor who we've had her on the show. Remember she

715
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: was She's such a wonderful speaker and was a former

716
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: model still is a model and had some real hirowing

717
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: tales to say about the modeling industry. And I saw

718
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: an interview with her post Milania's you know presentation slash speech,

719
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: and she basically said, like, look, I feel like I

720
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: know Milania a little bit because they both shared their

721
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 2: modeling background, and that you know, she might just be thinking, oh,

722
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 2: you know, she thought it was a positive thing, and

723
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: that she's hoping that it's a positive thing, and that

724
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: she's just really hopeful that somebody's going to take them seriously.

725
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: You know. Of course this brings it all right back

726
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: up again.

727
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 2: But for someone who's been distancing themselves from this mess,

728
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: why today, And if what you're saying is accurate, then

729
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: if she's in line with her husband, then why would

730
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: she bring this up? Because again, her husband's trying to distance.

731
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: Many people are trying to distance in the Epstein class,

732
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: let's be honest. Or if he was not aware, then

733
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 2: she went rogue ooh possibly.

734
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, speaking you use the word distance, and I think yes.

735
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 5: And it was very important that first Lady Melania Trump

736
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 5: said that the survivors should be able to speak in

737
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 5: front of Congress and have that go on the congressional record.

738
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 5: That is huge. But the distancing is the largest part.

739
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: Of what she did.

740
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 5: In my opinion, that she has never been named in

741
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 5: legal documents relating to such Chaffrick or Jeffrey Epstein. She

742
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 5: never witnessed his crimes, visited his island or his paragras.

743
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: But that's an acknowledgement of these crimes, you know, don't

744
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: forget so many people have been saying there are no crimes,

745
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: there was nothing to see, the files had nothing. We

746
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: were assured of that. So that's a pretty big, small statement.

747
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 5: We've been assured of everything under the sun. We were

748
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 5: assured before this presidency that President Trump was indeed going

749
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 5: to break these files open and see every single thing,

750
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 5: every lecherous detail that was in it.

751
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 3: So we have been told everything.

752
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with you that it doesn't make a

753
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 5: lot of sense of like who's on what base?

754
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is impossible. I don't know track of this game. Yeah,

755
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: Whereas like who do we believe in? I know, where

756
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: do we have to put our hearts and souls?

757
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 7: Right?

758
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 2: So fascinating, By the way, if anybody has an opinion,

759
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear it. I really don't know the

760
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: answer here. It's all really complicated, really confusing, and completely

761
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: out of left field. It is definitely intentional, and I

762
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 2: think the fallout from this will be very real.

763
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 6: Agreed, And let's let's be clear. I think her coming

764
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 6: forward and saying this, she should be applauded because she's

765
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 6: advocating for victims. So I'm one hundred percent behind that.

766
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 6: But the other side of the coin is known about

767
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,959
Speaker 6: this for a while now. Maybe you could have said

768
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 6: something sooner, you know, Listen.

769
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: We talked about this last night. Again, I'm paying devil's

770
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: advocate right now. You know that I want justice for

771
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 2: the survivors more than anything, so, but just to play

772
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 2: devil's advocate. We talked about the Long Island serial killer

773
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: last night and his wife standing by him to the

774
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: bitter end. And there was confidentiality between a husband and

775
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: a wife that we learned about through Jared Farantino when

776
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: he was here with us.

777
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: You know, she stood by her man.

778
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: We you know, judged and applauded Hillary Clinton also to

779
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: stand by her man. Is this another example of that

780
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: She referred to him as Donald you know several times

781
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: as opposed to the president. You know, this was a

782
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: little bit that fine line between a wife and a

783
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 2: first lady speaking out and a woman.

784
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: It's really complicated.

785
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah it is.

786
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: And or is this the new distraction?

787
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: Like ironically, you know, the rumors are like, oh, the

788
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: Epstein Files, the war is an Epstein Files distraction.

789
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: What if the reverse just happened.

790
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: Now suddenly the Epstein files become the war distraction.

791
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: Oh it's all so confusing.

792
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I'm torn with everything.

793
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: But do you think no, it really is?

794
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 5: I mean, the rational, the why now, I think the

795
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 5: simplest answer is that this is a get ahead of it,

796
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 5: whatever it is. I feel like something is about to

797
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 5: come out in some capacity, and that Milania Trump would

798
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 5: like to be far away from it. So that's is

799
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 5: it self. Preservation is maybe what I'm reaching for. She's

800
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 5: a mother, right, you know, this is who it's competent.

801
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 5: But you know, speaking of testimony, there's still a whole

802
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 5: bunch coming up. Howard Lutnik, the US Cromer secretary.

803
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, he is.

804
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 5: Slated May sixth to go in front of the House

805
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 5: Oversight Committee.

806
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: I'm particularly interested in Howard Lutnik. He's always standing behind

807
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: the president. Whenever you see really it feels like whenever

808
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: you see President Trump, Howard Lutnik is always standing beside, not.

809
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: Always, but often standing behind him.

810
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: And remember he's the one that went on sixty minutes

811
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 2: to say he doesn't He got icked out from Jeffrey

812
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: Epstein immediately and lived next door to him for years

813
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: and oh he was you know trash.

814
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 5: Yet Okay, yet? Am I confusing matters? Or is this

815
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 5: the same man who got so grossed out that he

816
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 5: then chose to bring his family to have Steins Island.

817
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: No, that's the right man. He brought a higher family.

818
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm convinced the family was the family

819
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: story was also a cover.

820
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: I think he was.

821
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: That's my personal opinion that is not founded. But I

822
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: was like, this whole family thing seems strange to me

823
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: in and of itself. But a he denies it ever

824
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 2: being there, ever knowing the guy.

825
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 3: Turns out that's not accurate in any way.

826
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: Oh, in fact, not only did you know him, you

827
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: went to the island and you brought your daughter's family

828
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: and your wife, you brought your younger daughter, your figure kids.

829
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: That is also just egregious beyond measure. But again, like,

830
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 2: why lie.

831
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 7: About it, right?

832
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: Just saying I didn't know the guy. I didn't know

833
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: that this guy was that much of a clown. And

834
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: my family and I were going by, and we were

835
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: in the area, and we took her boat and we

836
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: just stopped by it to say, hi, that could happen

837
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 2: Milania Trump. She said, let people take pictures. I thought

838
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: that was a reasonable setup to this story. Why doesn't

839
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: everybody get ahead of it? But all the secrets and

840
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: lies we now know better.

841
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: I feel you know it better.

842
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, keep it here, because coming up at the

843
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 5: top of the hour, we're very excited we have Keith Lytton.

844
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 5: He's a retired DEA special agent and he's going to

845
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 5: be revealing what it's actually like to track drug networks

846
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 5: and the small moments that can make or break the case.

847
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

848
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

849
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker back again with

850
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

851
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 3: Body is out for the evening.

852
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: We're missing you, Body, but Taha is here jumping in

853
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: and listen. We have a very big night tonight because

854
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: we finally are talking about wiretaps. It's one of those

855
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: topics that we get so many questions about.

856
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: It's one of those you, I don't know.

857
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 2: Forensic things that everyone's really interested in.

858
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: What happens in the world of a DEA agent.

859
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: We're about to find out, and Taha is going to

860
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: do his first official introduction.

861
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 6: So well, drum roll, drum roll for here we go.

862
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: Bring it.

863
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 6: Well, I'm only doing it because I had the pleasure

864
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 6: of speaking with Keith Keith Layton earlier this week riveting conversation,

865
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 6: So you guys are going to love it. But for

866
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 6: everyone listening, Keith is a retired supervisory special Agent with

867
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 6: the DEA and the DEA for in case you're not

868
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 6: completely aware of the Drug Enforcement Administration, he spent nearly

869
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 6: thirty years taking down drug networks, specializing in wired tapping

870
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 6: investigations and some really complex cases. So you're going to

871
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 6: love what he's going to talk about because a lot

872
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 6: of this is in his book called Badges, Bad Guys,

873
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 6: and bus So I got to sneak peak some of

874
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 6: these cases. So we're going to dig into all that.

875
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 6: But Keith, welcome to the show. Glad to have you

876
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 6: with us.

877
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for letting me be here. This

878
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 7: is awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

879
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: First, First of all, what a banger name for a book, right,

880
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: so so good? Yes, great title.

881
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 7: I have to give props and even my daughter asked

882
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 7: me to give her props. That name came from my daughter,

883
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 7: Lindsay she thought of the name. I was trying to

884
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 7: think of different things, and she came up the name.

885
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 7: I was like, let's roll that. Let's roll.

886
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 6: Good job with that.

887
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: Lindsey gets a lifetime of something, right, So lifetime on

888
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: dessert or you know, all the great things.

889
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: Congrats.

890
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 6: Anythinks she wants before we go too far into everything, Keith,

891
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 6: because there's so many stories that I'm dying for you

892
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 6: to get into. But take us back a little bit

893
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 6: and let us know a little bit about when you

894
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 6: first realized that you wanted to go into law enforcement.

895
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 6: Because I found that interesting. We spoke.

896
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 7: That's a strange, really strange story because it just didn't

897
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 7: happen overnight. So I'll try to make this brief. I

898
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 7: was a I would say, fizzed undergrad eighteen year old,

899
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 7: didn't know really what I want to do with my life.

900
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 7: I enjoyed working out, going to the gym. I played

901
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 7: college football at a small school and just decided to

902
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 7: major in phized and I went with that for four years.

903
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 7: At the end of four years, still didn't really want

904
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 7: know what I want to do. I kind of just decided,

905
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 7: let me just keep going to school. I continue my education.

906
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 7: I got a master's degree, and by that time, though,

907
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 7: I was really kind of stuck. And I was home

908
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 7: for a break one year and talking to my dad.

909
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 7: My dad was career military, twenty six years in the

910
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 7: Air Force, and he told me, I know you're kind

911
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 7: of stuck and don't want to really get into this,

912
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 7: and I know you've always been interested in law enforcement,

913
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 7: which I was. I was just always kind of watching

914
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 7: different crime shows and I really was into it. And

915
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 7: he said, why don't you pursue that? And I thought, hmm,

916
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 7: that might be a good avenue to pursue. But his

917
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 7: parting words were, if you want my recommendation, I would

918
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 7: go into federal law enforcement, because you know Air Force,

919
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 7: I can highly recommend the benefits are the best, which

920
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 7: I can say they are government benefits are incredible. And

921
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 7: I decided to take a turn. And this is nineteen

922
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 7: ninety nineteen ninety one. I literally I was in Springfield,

923
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 7: mass That's where I did my grad work at Springfield College.

924
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 7: I literally walked down to the Federal building in Springfield,

925
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 7: Mass again pre internet, pre cell phone. I went to

926
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 7: every floor and I picked up all these different paper

927
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 7: applications and I was upseessed for about a year, year

928
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 7: and a half, and we're talking DA Sleeper Service, FBI,

929
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 7: US Marshals, customs atf you name it. I just started

930
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 7: sitting again. I'm going to really date myself here, sat

931
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 7: at a typewriter and banged all these applications out and

932
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 7: started sending them in. And then that was my life

933
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 7: for about a year year and a half because it

934
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 7: does take a long time to get hired on. But

935
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 7: one day I was going for a physical assessment test,

936
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 7: another day for written tests, another day for a polygraph

937
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 7: and it just went on and on and on until

938
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 7: I know, I'll try to make this quick because it

939
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 7: gets kind of crazy. One by one, either they fell

940
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 7: off or I decided the job wasn't for me. A

941
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 7: perfect example, the FBI said, sorry, you're not qualified. FBI

942
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 7: is very hard to get into. They require either a

943
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 7: law degree or you know, being a CPA or knowing

944
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 7: some exotic language like Farsei. I didn't have any of that.

945
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 7: Twenty twenty five years old, and it came down to

946
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 7: just two two were left Dea and Secret Service out

947
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 7: of the thirteen. Getting kind of depressed, and then all

948
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 7: of a sudden, the phone rang one day and Dea

949
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 7: offered me the job and I was off and running.

950
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 5: Off and running.

951
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: That is awesome fighting.

952
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, what a story of stituativeness too, I mean, like

953
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 5: just a great life lesson what So, Keith, what was

954
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 5: your first real case like?

955
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 3: And sort of and yeah, what was your first real

956
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: case like?

957
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 7: So this is really it's a funny story. It's in

958
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 7: my book. It's kind of mundane, but it's how he

959
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 7: got started. And there was us obviously much bigger things

960
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 7: coming my way. It was just a funny story. I

961
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 7: was in Miami. I went to Miami. That was my

962
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 7: first post out of the academy. I spent seven years

963
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,720
Speaker 7: there in ninety two to ninety nine. And at first,

964
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 7: you know, they kind of just bring you along slowly.

965
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 7: You have a senior agent, a field training agent, and

966
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 7: they kind of just wanted to bring you along slowly. Well,

967
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 7: finally they said it's time for Keith to get his

968
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 7: feet wet. They gave me an informant. I signed up

969
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 7: the informant. They wanted me to get the use of

970
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 7: the paperwork. Working with an informant. We started doing these

971
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 7: small undercover buys. It was a really really small case

972
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 7: for Miami. But they wanted me to just get used

973
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 7: to the paperwork, get used to gathering the evidence, get

974
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 7: used to running an informant. And we made the arrest

975
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 7: and it was really small for Miami, and I went

976
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 7: on too much bigger and bigger things. But I mentioned

977
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 7: this in my book and I just think it's a

978
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 7: hysterical statement. All of a sudden, my case was done,

979
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 7: We made the arrests, and all of a sudden, the

980
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 7: special Agent in charge of Miami calls me down to

981
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 7: his office and I was like, oh good, this cannot

982
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 7: be good, especially in charge to talk to me. I

983
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 7: go down his office. He tells me to sit down,

984
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 7: and I just thought it was a funny kind of

985
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 7: you know what he said to me. Really I heard

986
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 7: about this case. Really good for you, young agent, proud

987
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 7: of you. Just want to wish you congratulations. Welcome to Miami. However,

988
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 7: moving forward, I want you to know, Miami is the

989
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 7: land of elephants, not an elopes.

990
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: And what's that?

991
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 7: Basically, men like we hunt elephants, we hunt big animals.

992
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 3: Here, you don't not the little ones.

993
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 7: You did a great job, but I expect bigger and

994
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 7: better things from the bigger Okay, we'll think about it too, gratulations,

995
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 7: but you need to step it up, which I did,

996
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 7: Which I.

997
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 3: Did, so South Beach.

998
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: You were in Miami, remember everybody, these are the nineties

999
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: in Miami, and if you're thinking Scarface from yesteryear and

1000
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: sort of the drug trade that was happening at that time,

1001
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 2: and the drug classes were changing so quickly at that

1002
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: time too, and it was like that is like probably

1003
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: the place in you know, eighties nineties Miami is like

1004
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: that's when the drugs were probably really flowing until you

1005
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 2: showed up and then I'm sure there was no more.

1006
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 7: It was it was the best assignment a young agent

1007
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 7: could could get. It was right after the Escobar and

1008
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 7: Medie hotel. We were actually chasing those guys around. Escobar

1009
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 7: was still alive back then. He had a lot of

1010
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 7: properties in Miami. You were chasing them and his lieutenants. Yeah,

1011
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 7: it was I like to say this, and again I

1012
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 7: date myself. So I'm in Miami ninety one ninety two.

1013
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 7: I was Miami Vice before the show Miami Vice Can.

1014
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 3: Oh, by the way, I could totally see it. We

1015
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 3: could see it, you know, because that was the time.

1016
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 3: Did you wear a suit? Did you wear a purple suit, and.

1017
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 7: I did not have an alligator, I did not have

1018
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 7: a boat. I did not wear leisure suits.

1019
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 6: But I'd like to say that, well, I guy to

1020
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 6: ask you about this because you ended up specializing in

1021
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 6: wire tapping, which I find incredibly fascinating. How do you

1022
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 6: even get into that and walk me through what that's like.

1023
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 7: So it started really generically. I was in a group

1024
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 7: and we were just a normal enforcement group. However, the

1025
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 7: assistant special agent charge that was over my group had

1026
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 7: just come from New York, and New York had done

1027
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 7: wire taps all the time, and he just kind of

1028
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 7: made a statement, we need to start doing wire taps.

1029
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,439
Speaker 7: We need to start finding and I love this term

1030
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 7: command and control numbers that are coming out of Columbia

1031
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 7: to all the lieutenants in Miami, and we need to

1032
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 7: start taking down these organizations. And he held kind of

1033
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 7: a little conference and he brought down these New York

1034
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 7: agents and he started talking about these wire taps and

1035
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 7: these clandestine investigations. And you know, you're tapping phones, you're

1036
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 7: listening to conversations, you're going after the elephants. You were

1037
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 7: going after the elephants, and I was just I was fascinated.

1038
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 7: I was like, this is what I want to do.

1039
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 7: This is why I hired on no offense to any

1040
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 7: state of local police officer. I did not want to

1041
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 7: ever be on the side of the highway running radar.

1042
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 7: That wasn't for me. Of those guys, those guys are

1043
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 7: true American heroes to do that way. But I was

1044
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 7: always interested in complex investigations and wire taps was the way,

1045
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 7: and I was like, let me and let me do this.

1046
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 5: Oh, it's so fascinating. And if you are just joining us,

1047
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 5: you are hearing true crime tonight. And we're so excited

1048
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 5: because we are joined by Keith Layton. He's a retired supervisor,

1049
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 5: a special agent with the DEA, the Drug Enforcement Administration,

1050
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 5: and listen, Keith has spent nearly thirty years taking down

1051
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 5: drug networks and specializing in wiretap investigations.

1052
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: I had a question because I also know that you

1053
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 2: were not only in the DEA but also the FBI

1054
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 2: at the same time, which is pretty much like I've

1055
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,919
Speaker 2: never even heard of that, So that's extra special and

1056
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 2: a how does that happen?

1057
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 3: And be the wire taps?

1058
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: Like, in your opinion, have you did you kind of

1059
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: know what this scenario is and the wire taps kind

1060
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 2: of confirmed your hunch or were you Sometimes like whoo,

1061
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 2: I did not hear that come in, Like wow, that

1062
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: conversation is so left field.

1063
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: Thank god for the wire tap.

1064
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 7: Yes, So a wiretap is a very complex investigation. And

1065
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 7: what I loved about it is it's actually an art.

1066
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 7: I was always the afvient. Somebody always has to write

1067
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 7: the affidavit, and I became really really good at it. Actually,

1068
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 7: to brag a little bit, I was probably the best

1069
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 7: affidavit guy in the US at the time. I started

1070
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 7: traveling around the country teaching other agents how to write

1071
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 7: this because it's an art, it's a science. Do you

1072
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 7: have to convince a federal judge and also US Department DOJ,

1073
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 7: the Attorney General, that you have tried every way to

1074
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 7: get this bad guy. We've tried informists, we've tried grand jury,

1075
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 7: we've tried you know, surveillance, We've tried everything. We can't

1076
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 7: get them. The only way is to give up his

1077
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 7: sacred right of private conversations and we have to listen

1078
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 7: in So those affidavits, which used to be like ninety

1079
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 7: two hundred pages, I became an expert at so it's

1080
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 7: an art and I loved it. I became very good

1081
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 7: at it, and I traveled the country. Now I'm just

1082
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 7: going fast forward. Now you asked about how I became

1083
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 7: involved with the FBI. So I'm at the tail end

1084
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 7: of my career. I'm here in Columbus, Ohio. I'm a supervisor.

1085
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 7: All of a sudden, my boss with DEA is very

1086
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 7: good friends with the FBI boss just across down on

1087
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 7: the other side of Columbus. They're having lunch one day

1088
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 7: and the FBI boss says, I am having the worst

1089
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 7: problems with this one gang. It is called the Short

1090
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 7: North Posse. There's a section of Columbus called the Short

1091
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 7: Norths and they're called the Short notth Bosse. These guys

1092
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 7: were stone cold killers. They had murdered a lot of people.

1093
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 7: The FBI at their wits end. They couldn't get them.

1094
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 7: And he just mentioned over lunch, believe or not, and

1095
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 7: he goes, I can't get him. I can't get him.

1096
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 7: And my boss said they would try a wire tap,

1097
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 7: and the FBI guy said, I don't have anyone that

1098
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 7: can do it, and my guy said, I do. I

1099
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 7: got your guy, and they sent me over to the FBI,

1100
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 7: which is on the other side of the town. No

1101
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 7: big deal. They dispatched me there for three years. I

1102
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 7: was the affiant, the case agent for the short North possible.

1103
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 7: He took down the whole organization acredible success. And like

1104
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 7: I told Daha one time on our conversations, at one

1105
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 7: point they gave me FBI credentials and a badge, and

1106
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 7: I thought, like, this is kind of cool. I've got

1107
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 7: a lot of awards and accolades, but I think I

1108
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 7: got to be the only federal agent in the United

1109
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 7: States that has DEA badge and creds and FBI badge

1110
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 7: and crabs. So yeah, that's how it kind of came

1111
00:59:55,080 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 7: full circle where this whole wire type experience paid off.

1112
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 7: And I was with the FPI for three years and

1113
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 7: it was just it was awesome.

1114
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 3: That is so cool.

1115
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 5: Stephanie, Oh, we're having a little bit of a quick

1116
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 5: speaking of wiretap there, she is.

1117
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 7: No.

1118
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 3: I was gonna say.

1119
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 2: The only question I still have, but I know we're

1120
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 2: running out of time, is just you know how wire

1121
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: taps have kind of evolved, right, Like I'm picturing somebody

1122
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 2: in a van outside, I'm picturing body in a van outside,

1123
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, spying on somebody wearing headphones, and there's like

1124
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: you got to sneak in the wire tap. But I

1125
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: don't think that's how it goes down any longer. It's

1126
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: pretty sophisticated operation in terms of things listen in the air.

1127
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 5: Well right, and we're actually we're gonna ask you to

1128
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 5: get into all of those details sort of how has

1129
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 5: the evolution happened? And also you know, I think you

1130
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 5: are going to talk with us about some moments when

1131
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 5: investigations maybe sideways and how they get back on track.

1132
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: So stay with us.

1133
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 5: We will be here with former DA agent Keith Layton.

1134
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 5: Stick around. We are true Crime Tonight. We are talking

1135
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 5: true crime all the time.

1136
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

1137
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1138
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong Taha House and we are talking all things

1139
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 2: wire taps. So Keith Layton is here. He's a former

1140
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 2: DEA agent and also a former FBI agent, so we

1141
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: have we're in some fine company and some very safe company,

1142
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 2: I might add, which feels great.

1143
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 3: So where should we go? Court I know you had

1144
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 3: a question first up.

1145
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think actually I wanted to go back to

1146
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 5: what was kind of broached at the end of the

1147
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 5: last segment, which is the evil of wire tapping and

1148
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 5: what does that look like, Keith.

1149
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 7: So it's incredible how far it's come. So I've said

1150
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 7: this before, I'm dating myself. We used the wire tap payphones.

1151
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 7: It was a nightmare because you can imagine back in

1152
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 7: eighties and nineties how many people would use a payphone

1153
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 7: and you had to kind of filter out the people

1154
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 7: you wanted to listen to and not listen to. How

1155
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 7: we did it. I've actually wired tapped a fax machine.

1156
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 7: You can do all kinds of crazy stuff landlines. Of course,

1157
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 7: the prevalent mode was a cell phone. But here I'm

1158
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 7: just going to tell you the evolution. One of my

1159
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 7: last cases, I didn't work and I was a supervisor,

1160
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 7: but I had an agent in my group that tapped

1161
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 7: a BBM app, a BlackBerry messenger app where they would

1162
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 7: talk across an app a BlackBerry message and we could

1163
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 7: tap that. So we've gone from payphones all the way

1164
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 7: to now tapping apps. I don't even know if the

1165
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 7: exists anymore. BlackBerry.

1166
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 3: I loved by BlackBerry.

1167
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: By the way, how great was the BlackBerry can we

1168
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: go back to the BlackBerry. There was no greater time

1169
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 2: than the BlackBerry days when it was like click click

1170
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: with your right.

1171
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: In your left hand, like just chomping away at it.

1172
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: Those were the best. But yeah, sophisticated stuff. Now I'm

1173
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: assuming that my computer and phone are tapping me already?

1174
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 3: Is that that thing?

1175
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 7: No, I don't know about promputers. I'm sure I've been

1176
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 7: out of the business now, geez. I retired in twenty twenty.

1177
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 7: I'm sure it's evolved even more so than that. But

1178
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 7: when I left, we were starting to do apps. So

1179
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 7: god knows what we're tapping these days.

1180
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: Wow, tapping an app is wild.

1181
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing, Keith,

1182
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 6: Was there ever a time you felt like a case

1183
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 6: or even your safety was potentially on the line, Like

1184
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 6: you were really frightened about something that could happen.

1185
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 7: Not really. They train us in the academy very well.

1186
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 7: We always work in groups, never like in the old

1187
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 7: in the movies. It's never one on one middle of

1188
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 7: the night, you know, in a dark alley. We always

1189
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 7: work in groups. If we're going to arrest one people,

1190
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 7: we bring five, If arresting two people, we bring ten.

1191
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 7: Everything we do is out in the open. I always

1192
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 7: found this fascinating too. Everything we did was in like

1193
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 7: Walmart parking lots, home depot parking lots. We never went

1194
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:36,439
Speaker 7: into houses, we never got cornered, we never went into

1195
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 7: bad guys houses where we didn't know what was waiting

1196
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 7: for us. Everything was out in the open. And even

1197
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 7: today I found it. I find it fascinating when I

1198
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 7: pull into a Walmart parking lot or home depot, like

1199
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 7: there might be an undercover meeting going on right here.

1200
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 7: Because we did everything out in the open. We wanted

1201
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 7: to mix in with the public. We didn't wear uniforms,

1202
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 7: who drove plane cars, we didn't have you know, mark cars.

1203
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 7: We would just want to kind of blend in. We

1204
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 7: also want to be able to move guys around to

1205
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 7: the different parts of the parking lot. I can see him,

1206
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 7: he's in my view. He's in section E. He's meeting

1207
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 7: with the bad guy. Now wait a minute, and walking away.

1208
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 7: All of a sudden, another Asian pipes up. I got him.

1209
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 7: Now he's on my part of the parking lot. Everything

1210
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 7: is down in the open, but I always see him.

1211
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 7: Fascinating And there's some great books out there. One of

1212
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 7: them is by James Mills. I forget the name of

1213
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 7: that book, but he talks about how this whole multi

1214
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 7: billion dollar industry called the drug trade is really done

1215
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 7: underneath our very eyes and nose.

1216
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 3: That makes sense to me too.

1217
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: You think about those parking lots, the home depo, for example,

1218
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 2: not that the home depot.

1219
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 3: We love a home depot, but.

1220
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 2: There's trucks and you know, there's activity happening there anyway,

1221
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 2: So you're not really assuming that the two people that

1222
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 2: are sitting in their car are potentially, you know, having

1223
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: a situation which is so interesting also, or that drug

1224
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: deals are being you know, happening right around me.

1225
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 3: I would be so oblivious it would be painful.

1226
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 2: This is scary stuff. Yeah, this is scary stuff. Did

1227
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: you ever fear retribution? I mean, you're putting away very

1228
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: bad people for very long periods of time, and maybe

1229
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 2: they might recognize you at the grocery store just you know,

1230
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 2: or a family member could recognize you.

1231
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 7: Well, not me, not so much. I mean I was

1232
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 7: in Miami, I did not speak Spanish, I did not

1233
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 7: do a lot of undercover. But the undercover agents that

1234
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 7: we did use, if we did do it like a

1235
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 7: bust a takedown. They would actually wear masks because they

1236
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 7: didn't want to ever have to be seen again. I

1237
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 7: didn't have to worry about that. I was not an

1238
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 7: undercover agent. I had my own specialty. We talked about that. Also.

1239
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 7: There's ways that we were always protected. So one example

1240
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 7: is we were able to go used to get like

1241
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 7: a memo that was signed by our special agent in

1242
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 7: charge and actually think there's some statute that allows for this.

1243
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 7: We could file this downtown in the clerk at courts

1244
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 7: or wherever. And all of our names who were taken

1245
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 7: off of housing utilities, any public record, you couldn't find us.

1246
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 7: You couldn't go down and just say, this guy Keith

1247
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 7: Layton arrested me whatever six months ago. Where does he live?

1248
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 7: You couldn't find that. And then there was other things.

1249
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 7: We were well trained, little tiny things. We're always told,

1250
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 7: never take the same way home, never go to grow

1251
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 7: up the same way. There's certain things we learned about

1252
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 7: choke points. If somebody really wants you, and they know

1253
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 7: the exact way you're going every day, and they really

1254
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 7: want you, a choke point is like they'll find somewhere

1255
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 7: where the traffic's all jammed up and they will, you know,

1256
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 7: cause an accident and you're sitting there and all of

1257
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 7: a sudden they'll come up on you. It's just little things.

1258
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 8: You know.

1259
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not right there. Pas pause pause, Can you

1260
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 3: pause for one second.

1261
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 2: That's an astounding thought that it had never really occurred

1262
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 2: to me before. Number one great tip, Keith, don't always

1263
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 2: take the ride home the same or walk the same

1264
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 2: way home. You know, that kind of repetition makes you

1265
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 2: a target if somebody wants to victimize you.

1266
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: That's a general rule.

1267
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: Keep the idea of being in a clogged traffic area,

1268
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:27,919
Speaker 2: you know, Miami.

1269
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 3: Good luck finding a place that's not.

1270
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 2: That's very scary, and then they jump out and commit

1271
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 2: a crime.

1272
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 7: If they want to get bad enough and you're not

1273
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 7: following the protocol and you're not paying attention. I mean,

1274
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 7: if they really want you and they know like this

1275
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 7: part of whatever highway at nine am jams up every

1276
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 7: morning because of traffic, and if you take the same

1277
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 7: way every day and he's just sitting there or you're

1278
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 7: sitting duck. So they told us and nice to do

1279
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 7: it all the time. I still do it. Once in

1280
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 7: a while, I'll just say, let me just take a

1281
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 7: different way to work. I don't really think any watch

1282
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 7: me anymore. It's been a while, but change it up,

1283
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 7: go a different way. I mean, just you know, just

1284
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 7: never be routine. I guess what they taught.

1285
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 3: Us, it's.

1286
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, you get helpful for all of us across the board.

1287
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 6: Can I jump back to the wired tapping part because

1288
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,719
Speaker 6: I still I'm just curious, like for for some people

1289
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 6: who don't understand the wire tapping world, what is it

1290
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 6: that you're actually sort of listening for? Like what makes

1291
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 6: something stand out or actionable?

1292
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 3: Great question.

1293
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 7: So this is really why I fell in love with

1294
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 7: wire tap cases. And I mentioned this in my pre

1295
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 7: interviews with you guys. A wire tap target is actually

1296
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 7: the phone itself. You are chasing the phone. Now, of

1297
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 7: course you want the person using it, but the actual target,

1298
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 7: because they're making the conversations, is the phone. And I

1299
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 7: found it fascinating and also what helped us was that

1300
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 7: means you can you can do a wire tap with

1301
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 7: John Doe. You don't. Let's say it's early investigation. I

1302
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 7: don't know who this guy is, but I know the

1303
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 7: phone is dirty. He's making all these drug calls. Well,

1304
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 7: the target's your phone, So you can go up on

1305
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 7: the phone belonging to a John Doe. Hopefully you're going

1306
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 7: to identify him through surveillance and everything else, but you're

1307
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 7: able to just got your target. Really and I found

1308
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 7: that stuff kind of fascinating. Now where that gets? And

1309
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 7: then one of my pre conversations with you guys is

1310
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 7: where's this get? Kind of like what throws you off?

1311
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 7: What tumbles what? Well? We had a guy I can't

1312
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 7: mention his name. I'm not sure if he's still around,

1313
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 7: but I got to protect him. He was really savvy

1314
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 7: to law enforcement. He kept like ken cell phones on

1315
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 7: him at all times. We would get up on one

1316
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 7: phone and we didn't have identify at the time. We

1317
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 7: just knew the phone and we were sudden like bingo,

1318
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 7: we're up. The judge signed it, We're off and running,

1319
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 7: and we started listening and we're getting close to identify him.

1320
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 7: And all of a sudden, next day the monitors would

1321
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 7: turn me and say, like it's done. Done. He would

1322
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 7: dump it and go to another one and we had

1323
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 7: to start all over again and find that, find a

1324
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 7: new phone, write the ninety page AFFI David and we

1325
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 7: were just pulling our hair out. I actually had hair

1326
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 7: back then, and Taha asked me, you know in our

1327
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 7: pre conversations, did you ever get the guy? And I

1328
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 7: did not. It was one of my failures. But I

1329
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 7: did find out years ago. I was out of Miami.

1330
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 7: I was another location. He finally got his due and

1331
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 7: he was arrested, So I was somebody was. But yeah,

1332
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 7: but those are some of the pitfalls of you know,

1333
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 7: we do fail once in a while, but.

1334
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 2: You start that an investigation and it gets picked up

1335
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 2: at a later date. You know, some of these crimes

1336
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: and investigations are very ongoing, and you know, batons get passed.

1337
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 5: Keith, I have to know. So in your book Badges,

1338
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 5: bad Guys and Busts, is there a story or moment

1339
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 5: that really captures what the life was like or anything

1340
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 5: that you want to share.

1341
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 7: So I'll go three quickly. I mean, Miami was like

1342
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 7: the wild wild West, and it was just amazing. There

1343
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 7: was one case we were working with our we have

1344
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 7: offices all over the world, it's pretty incredible. We were

1345
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 7: working with our office in Freeport, Bahamas. They had a

1346
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 7: drug dealer that was taking a boat through international waters

1347
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 7: going over to the coast of Viminy, you know, close

1348
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 7: to Florida and dropping drugs. Anyways, I'll try to make

1349
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 7: these quick because there's three I want to touch on.

1350
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 7: All of a sudden, I found myself on a Coast

1351
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 7: Guard cutter flying across the Atlantic Ocean chasing this guy

1352
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 7: and we eventually arrested them, but just to spend a

1353
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 7: day on this coast Guard cutter and I was just like,

1354
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 7: hinch me, this is this is underlie international waters on

1355
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 7: a Coastguard cutters. And then I was I'm.

1356
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,879
Speaker 2: Don Johnson right now on a boat bacon dig busts.

1357
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 7: I did a three year tour in Brussels, Belgium. That

1358
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 7: was pretty cool. I wanted to do a European tour.

1359
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 7: I've always loved Europe. I lived and worked there. I

1360
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 7: worked out of the US embassy, so just to work

1361
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 7: out of the US embassy was pretty cool with a

1362
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 7: foreign government. And then the other thing I like to mention,

1363
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 7: and this was like how we start the book, just

1364
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 7: to keep people's attention. There was a case I worked

1365
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,600
Speaker 7: I was a young agent and they just asked me

1366
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 7: for some help. A lot of times one group will

1367
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 7: go to another, Hey, we got some guys out on

1368
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 7: vacation sick. We need some guys helping us great, and

1369
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 7: it was just a simple a by bust, which is

1370
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 7: you know, where they one guy shows, the other guy

1371
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 7: shows the money, the bad guy shows the drugs. And

1372
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 7: it was really small for Miami. It's only about five kilos.

1373
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 7: People are like, wow, but Miami, that's not a lot.

1374
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 7: Very small case and I'll try to make it short.

1375
01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 7: We go in to arrest this guy. The the signal

1376
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 7: was given that okay, I saw the drugs. We move

1377
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 7: in and we're all, you know, approaching the person. We

1378
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,719
Speaker 7: have our guns out. We have that son da where

1379
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,719
Speaker 7: we're saying please don't move, hands up. Our Spanish guys

1380
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 7: are talking to Spanish to him in case he doesn't

1381
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 7: understand mano salvibez, which is put your hands up and

1382
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 7: way to muavo, don't move close and closer, and with

1383
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 7: a split second, this is where it kind of got scary.

1384
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 7: Thank god, I didn't even have to think about this.

1385
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 7: He reaches into his waistband, he pulls out a gun,

1386
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 7: puts it under his chin, blew his head off.

1387
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 5: Oh my my word.

1388
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 6: Wow.

1389
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 7: That was my second week in Miami when I saw

1390
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 7: oh wow.

1391
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 2: This is after the case where they're like Hey, listen,

1392
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 2: we fight for big elephants, no more ears, we do

1393
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,600
Speaker 2: the whole elephant, and then two weeks later you're the

1394
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 2: man's blows his head off. That's an astounding story and

1395
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: very traumatic. Did we forget for law enforcement on any level,

1396
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 2: they have to really face very scary things.

1397
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 3: That to me is very traumatic. So I'm sorry that

1398
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 3: that happened.

1399
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 2: But also you are such a you know, tough person

1400
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:06,719
Speaker 2: to be able to pull all this off.

1401
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:09,600
Speaker 7: It's true because that stuff takes a toll on you.

1402
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:12,640
Speaker 7: Remember even more next after not only think I was

1403
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,560
Speaker 7: like okay, and my team was okay, but I was

1404
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 7: also thinking about this kind. I don't know if you

1405
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 7: had a wife or kids, but right right a mother?

1406
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but that's you know, you shouldn't be messing

1407
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 2: around with this stuff.

1408
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 3: This is like really hot stuff.

1409
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're keeping us all safe, and we're

1410
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:32,919
Speaker 2: so grateful.

1411
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I am very, very excited to read your book.

1412
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 3: I have to say, I think that's going to be

1413
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 3: my absolute next read. And key, thank you.

1414
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 5: We need to thank you for being here and keeping

1415
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 5: us riveted and informed, and.

1416
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to come back. You're a great storyteller.

1417
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, we want to hear more.

1418
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 7: Absolutely, I would love to come back anytime. And I

1419
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 7: love the whole experience. This is awesome.

1420
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 2: Lindsey gets an appearance, your daughter, she gets to make

1421
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 2: a little weird.

1422
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 7: But she was like, Dad, give me a shout out

1423
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 7: and I can tell her now.

1424
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 5: Shout out to Lindsey who titled the book Badges, Bad

1425
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 5: Guys and Busts, which is a chorus by Keith Layton,

1426
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 5: and it's the untold stories of a Dea Agent. So honestly,

1427
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 5: this book is going to give you the real behind

1428
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 5: the scenes at what these investigations actually actually look like.

1429
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 5: And you can get it Amazon, Kindle, paperback or which

1430
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 5: I'm excited about, particularly the audio book. And guess what,

1431
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:44,839
Speaker 5: Keith narrates it himself. So I am that's awesome.

1432
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:47,679
Speaker 3: Well, that is great.

1433
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 5: So once again, Keith, we appreciate you being here, and

1434
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 5: do stick around. We've got a lot more to dig into.

1435
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 5: We're opening up the talkbacks. We are getting into what

1436
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 5: you have been saying you want to talk about. Keep

1437
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,799
Speaker 5: it here. True Crime tonight. We are talking true crime

1438
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 5: all the time.

1439
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

1440
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time.

1441
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 3: Hey, big thanks to Keith. He was so interesting.

1442
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 2: You know, it's so fun when law enforcement or anybody

1443
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 2: as a guest and you can tell they're so passionate

1444
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 2: about what their career is.

1445
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 3: I find that so inspiring.

1446
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:40,759
Speaker 2: And he is definitely somebody who really loves and loved

1447
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 2: his job, and I just really find it great. So

1448
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, Keith, and more of

1449
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 2: that to come.

1450
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, how much do we love that? We love our

1451
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 6: law enforcement? And hearing the details of For me, it's

1452
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 6: like a sneak peek behind all the movies that I've

1453
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 6: been watching and now I'm like, oh, that's real. I

1454
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 6: didn't Heroin been really good. So we'll keep those going.

1455
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 6: But how about for now. As we're barreling down towards

1456
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 6: the end of the show, we jump into a talk

1457
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 6: back because I hear we got some good ones that

1458
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 6: came in.

1459
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 13: Well, how about it, Hey, y'all, it's Gina and Florida

1460
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 13: and y'all are talking about Rex Huberman today. And I

1461
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 13: always think back to the documentary and about his family,

1462
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 13: and this, of course is nothing compared to the families

1463
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 13: who have lost their loved ones to murder. But it

1464
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 13: just you never really know who a person is. It's scary.

1465
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 13: Her husband is the Long Island serial killer.

1466
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 2: Think about the worst imaginable thing. I mean, we hear

1467
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 2: this a lot, and by the way, I get it,

1468
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 2: this is something that I feel like I understand sometimes,

1469
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 2: you know, people love through things. You know, I often

1470
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 2: say this if somebody accused, you know, we talk about

1471
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: the Coburger family, for example, Brian Colberger accused of the

1472
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 2: Idaho student murders.

1473
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 3: You know, I've talked about this before.

1474
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 2: I have brothers, and if somebody accused one of my

1475
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 2: brothers of something and they looked me in the eye

1476
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 2: and said they didn't do it, I would never believe

1477
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 2: that they did till the death. Like I would spend

1478
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: my entire life till the day I take my last

1479
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,600
Speaker 2: breath defending their honor because I love them.

1480
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 3: So that's like, you know, wonderful.

1481
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 2: So I don't blame a woman or somebody's wife or

1482
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 2: husband or family member, who's who's not able to really

1483
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 2: see the side that others do. I'm sure she's looking

1484
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,840
Speaker 2: at him today thinking what in the hell did I

1485
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 2: see this whole time?

1486
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 6: But there's always a side of me that and maybe

1487
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 6: people are out there are not going to like me

1488
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 6: saying this, but I feel like she had to have some.

1489
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 2: Clues, like we always assume that, But have you ever

1490
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 2: been been boozled before? Or have you ever by the way,

1491
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if she did. I mean I thought

1492
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 2: that as well, So I get this. I understand all

1493
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 2: sides of this. I thought she kind of handled herself

1494
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 2: very elegantly yesterday in what could have been very I mean,

1495
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 2: these are hideous times hideous and you know, to our

1496
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 2: caller's point, of course, the victims, their families, it's that

1497
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 2: we're not making a comparison.

1498
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 3: But for his family, his daughter, his son.

1499
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 2: You know, he's a son that has special needs, and

1500
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 2: the daughter's been standing by him.

1501
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 6: And you know what a d possible wife with his

1502
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 6: wife was you know, pulled in a lot of different directions.

1503
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 6: But I always think to me, you know, to your

1504
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 6: point about being bamboozled, For me, it's sort of are

1505
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 6: you listening to that inner voice? Sometimes there's like a

1506
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 6: spidy sensor that says like, that's weird. He's always away

1507
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 6: when there's a you know, I think you get where

1508
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 6: I'm going to keep. Of course, some people act on

1509
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 6: that and say, let me look into this further, or

1510
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,559
Speaker 6: do they just say I'm just thinking crazy and move on.

1511
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 6: If that makes sense.

1512
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 5: Well it totally bt K is another example. Dennis his

1513
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 5: last time is apes Me is the bind torture kill

1514
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 5: serial killer. But he famously compartment cartmentalized so completely. I mean,

1515
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 5: he was like a minister. He was a volunteer with

1516
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 5: the Boy Scouts. He was a great follow and you know,

1517
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 5: if that is the totality of what you're seeing, I

1518
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 5: don't know, it's hard. Some some people are that good.

1519
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 5: I mean even to a far lesser degree. Think of

1520
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 5: how many people get scammed they fall.

1521
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 2: For Okay, I just bought a thing on Instagram that

1522
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 2: I got scammed on, Like I am, even though I

1523
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 2: know better, I'm still like it seems like it's calling

1524
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 2: my name and it was a scam.

1525
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1526
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 5: Well, and that's you know, people can present one way

1527
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 5: well and one way, And I think is the biggest takeaway.

1528
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 6: VTK. Dennis Raider to your point, like he did leave

1529
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 6: that that life where he's giving one side and then

1530
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 6: I can see being fooled by it. I just I

1531
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 6: think it was just something about being under the same roof,

1532
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 6: and when I heard so many details about how he

1533
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 6: what he did in the basement, and how he bought

1534
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 6: all these items, like all of these things, I guess

1535
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 6: you know.

1536
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but think about it.

1537
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,160
Speaker 5: Huerman's wife, the guy who is now you know he

1538
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 5: is guilty of being the Long Island serial killer. His

1539
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 5: wife is literally in another country during every single one

1540
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 5: of these heinous events.

1541
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:41,679
Speaker 3: She was across an ocean.

1542
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 5: And he was an architect who was buying, like you said,

1543
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:48,679
Speaker 5: all kinds of weird things from say home depot. Okay,

1544
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 5: he's an architect buying strange things. I don't know, it's easy.

1545
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 5: And I think, Stephanie, you said you can love through

1546
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 5: a lot of things.

1547
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:57,479
Speaker 8: I have.

1548
01:22:58,360 --> 01:22:59,799
Speaker 3: I have loved in the face.

1549
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 2: I know it stinks, yeah, Like I know it's like

1550
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 2: really really really silly to say, But I feel like

1551
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 2: I'm capable of loving through even that. You know, if

1552
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 2: one of you decided that to me, if you're like,

1553
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 2: it's not true, I know it because I feel like

1554
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 2: you would be able to tell me and then I'd

1555
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 2: be like, I'll cross that bridge of problems then. But

1556
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:25,720
Speaker 2: if someone's like that I love and then I know

1557
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 2: that I feel like I don't expect perfection out of

1558
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 2: somebody either.

1559
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 3: You know, we all have our highs and lows, but

1560
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:32,720
Speaker 3: this is like.

1561
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 2: Whoa can you imagine you don't think a sixth sense

1562
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 2: is something that we really need to trust.

1563
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 3: I would have to assume that we're all correct in that.

1564
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 2: One thing I've learned in this job, and we talk

1565
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 2: about this to nauseum is so many layers to a person.

1566
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 2: How a person presents themselves in one place can sometimes

1567
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 2: be very different, and that is so hard to wrap

1568
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 2: our brains around.

1569
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 3: But it's true, case in point.

1570
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 2: If in fact that's true, and listen, she may have

1571
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 2: had a sixth sense, but think about what that looks like.

1572
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, he had actually killed prior to

1573
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:12,559
Speaker 2: their marriage, she's inheriting a guy that already had killed.

1574
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to be fact checked myself on this, but

1575
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure math wise that they were together, either

1576
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 2: married or together, he had already committed murder. So it's

1577
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 2: not maybe there was like this big change in him

1578
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 2: suddenly where you would imagine, you know, you talk about people, Oh,

1579
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 2: he's having an affair. He just got his spray tan

1580
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 2: and lost a bunch of wade and is suddenly going

1581
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,679
Speaker 2: to you know, Dan's class all the time.

1582
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 3: Okay, you know if you.

1583
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 2: Think somebody is like coming back from you know, murdering

1584
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,719
Speaker 2: people regularly, eight of them, if not many more.

1585
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:50,799
Speaker 5: By the way, Stephanie, you are correct because they got married.

1586
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 5: If what I'm looking at is correct, they got married

1587
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 5: Rex Huermann Long Island serial killer and his second wife Asa.

1588
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 5: It was in nineteen ninety six. However, for murderers date

1589
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 5: back at least until nineteen ninety three.

1590
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 3: So I did that first wife. I'm curious about good question.

1591
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 6: I was when you said that was where my mind went.

1592
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 6: I'm like, I wonder how much she knew or what

1593
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 6: she's saying at the moment at the current time. Yeah,

1594
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:23,680
Speaker 6: that's that's a but yeah, Well, thank you Gina for

1595
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 6: that great question and talking back to think more about it.

1596
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 6: Maybe we can go to another one before we wrap

1597
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 6: up things.

1598
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 14: Hey, guys, I want to preface this talk back by

1599
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 14: saying this is not meant to be insensitive or anything,

1600
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 14: but I was just wondering if you guys had any

1601
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 14: thoughts about why people were so involved in the Nancy

1602
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 14: Guthrie case.

1603
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 4: Right away, it is.

1604
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 5: Because it's a man of Guthrie's mom.

1605
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 14: But I just remember thinking when it all first started

1606
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 14: happening that it was like, there's so many other moms

1607
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 14: out there that are missing, and people just like, no

1608
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,520
Speaker 14: one's talking about those moms, but why Nancy Guthrie.

1609
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:56,799
Speaker 5: So I don't know, I'm just wondering.

1610
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,560
Speaker 14: I'm just pure curiosity.

1611
01:25:58,640 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 5: But love your show.

1612
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 2: I have to confess I thought that too at the beginning.

1613
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: Not that I was anything. We don't want Nancy home safe,

1614
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 2: but it was really front page, in front story on

1615
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 2: every single news outlet in the world. It felt like

1616
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 2: when there were such big things happening. Also in addition

1617
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 2: to other mothers missing, you know, of course there's a

1618
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 2: celebrity angle. But I don't know the answer to that,

1619
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 2: but I did it. Did I did have that.

1620
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 6: Thought also, And yeah, I agree with you. We'll go

1621
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 6: please what we're going to say.

1622
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 5: I was just going to say, I think it absolutely

1623
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 5: is the Savannah Guthrie the quote celebrity angle, and specifically

1624
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:41,759
Speaker 5: as a morning show a wildly watched morning show host.

1625
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 5: People start their day, they have coffee and wake up

1626
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:48,679
Speaker 5: with you and part of your routine, and I think

1627
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 5: that breeds even more of a familiarity than say, Angelina

1628
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 5: Joe Lee. So this is someone I think that helped

1629
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 5: it feel closer to home. But you're so right, there

1630
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 5: are there are so many. I mean, listen, about six

1631
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 5: hundred thousand people are reported missing in this United States

1632
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 5: every year.

1633
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 3: I mean, think about that. That is horrifying. Yes's so scary,

1634
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:13,440
Speaker 3: so scary.

1635
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 2: And listen, I thought it was pretty comforting because we

1636
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:19,800
Speaker 2: all were so galvanized to sort of find answers for

1637
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 2: Savannah and to bring her mother home safely.

1638
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 3: But there was a lot going on in the world

1639
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:25,639
Speaker 3: at that time too.

1640
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 2: Look, the gossip side of that was, oh, this is

1641
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 2: also a psyops which we were learning about something related

1642
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 2: to Epstein, but that never really materialized. But there there

1643
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 2: was conversation. None of this is based in any fact,

1644
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 2: but there was conversation that, oh, well, everybody can really

1645
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:50,560
Speaker 2: relate to elder loss, Like that's such a universal feeling anybody,

1646
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 2: no matter what line in the sand you are on

1647
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:58,759
Speaker 2: or not, everybody can really relate to like losing an

1648
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 2: elderly parent, loved one, or grandmother. It's just it like

1649
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 2: makes us all just want to be helpful. And maybe

1650
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 2: that was a distraction from something else.

1651
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1652
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, but to your point, I do think the celebrity

1653
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:13,919
Speaker 6: is a big factor.

1654
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 3: And then yeah, Savannah, everybody loves Savannah.

1655
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 6: You do know that person. But I do think even

1656
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 6: on our platform, it's important to kind of shed light

1657
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 6: on some of the cases that maybe don't get as

1658
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 6: much attention we had. I think it was a Sheena

1659
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 6: Scarsborough on and her her daughter, Shade Robinson. That's a

1660
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 6: victim of a horrific crime. And when Shawde I mean sorry,

1661
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 6: when Sheena came on the show, she really pointed out

1662
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 6: how many you know, African American girls go missing that

1663
01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 6: don't get a single report on any news coverage, not

1664
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 6: no one talks about it. So that's there are a

1665
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 6: lot of cases that that go onheard that you know.

1666
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 6: With this platform, maybe we can just keep trying to

1667
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 6: shed some light on those and keeping the attention on them.

1668
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 2: I think we should do one missing a week at least,

1669
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 2: like one missing story, like if anybody knows someone, you know,

1670
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 2: we've tried. We get people. Sometimes we get some fake

1671
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 2: ones though, but you know, we do source and stuff

1672
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 2: and we we went we run things to the best

1673
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:17,919
Speaker 2: of our ability through all the channels. But if anybody

1674
01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 2: needs that awareness out there and knows of a case

1675
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 2: that needs extra awareness, that is what we are all

1676
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,320
Speaker 2: about here. Like that's you know, we have such a

1677
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 2: smart audience too, they'll solve it.

1678
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, Well let's see if we were running out

1679
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 6: of time, but maybe we have one one like fun

1680
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 6: one we can go to.

1681
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 5: Hey, this is Lisa from Pittsburgh.

1682
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 4: I've heard aoh chat room, I've heard meet up in

1683
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 4: New York City, I've heard.

1684
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 5: Boston, Salem. What about true crime tonight cruise, all of

1685
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 5: us together for days on it?

1686
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 6: Oh?

1687
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.

1688
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 2: I love it.

1689
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 3: I feel like she's onto something with the cruise.

1690
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1691
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 6: Though we were just saying earlier how much I'm nervous

1692
01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 6: about being in the water now. So after all these

1693
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:01,759
Speaker 6: stories we've talked, Sam, you would.

1694
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 5: Have so many you would have so many people who

1695
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 5: would be so focused on every detail that you safe.

1696
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 2: I think you'd go missing anywhere or anybody on this boat.

1697
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 3: This boat was really a true crime.

1698
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 2: Cruise is probably the safest place a human could ever be.

1699
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 2: We would be on it, like if it wasn't me,

1700
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 2: it would be Courtney.

1701
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 3: If it was important, it would be.

1702
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 2: Body, and then every single person on the boat, every

1703
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 2: single person on it, it.

1704
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 5: Would all be recorded. It would all be time, So

1705
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 5: it would probably we'll be home staving.

1706
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 2: You would be returned safely, and then we'd all be

1707
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 2: dying laughing because the circumstances would be absurd, and you'd

1708
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: come now glowing in handsome and looking like a million bucks,

1709
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:43,080
Speaker 2: and we don't be.

1710
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 6: How much you guess what that could do? Like, that's actually,

1711
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 6: it's so fun.

1712
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:53,240
Speaker 5: And then as long as in this is my I

1713
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 5: feel like we started the dream.

1714
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 3: It had to do with the gluten free clue cruise

1715
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 3: a while ago. Yeah, that's my Yeah, that was by

1716
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 3: the way, that was Riley. Yes, Riley was recommending that.

1717
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 5: Yes, but as long as we can additionally have sort

1718
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,639
Speaker 5: of the the real cheesy uh you know, the the

1719
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 5: limbo and the electric slide, yes, and the fictionary. I

1720
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 5: love games so much. It would be so fun to play.

1721
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:23,559
Speaker 3: We can play.

1722
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 6: Mystery games, miss games.

1723
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 3: We played blue games.

1724
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm not that good at the games, but I'll be

1725
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 2: dancing and I'll be on the I'll be totally on

1726
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 2: the limbo deck.

1727
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 3: I was going to say, you can run the limbo.

1728
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 2: Yes, Hello, can you go hello, okay you.

1729
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 3: Half Yeah, I live it up.

1730
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1731
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 6: Food is the downfall, but also the plus side because

1732
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 6: I'm just gosh. You can eat constantly and you just

1733
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 6: it'll be fun, okay.

1734
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 2: And you can order room service and they do dessert

1735
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 2: in like the middle of the night.

1736
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 3: It's absurdly fun.

1737
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 6: I was annoyed I found out about the room service,

1738
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 6: like the last night. I was like, I didn't know.

1739
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, I don't know.

1740
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 2: They don't tell you, guys, try not to tell you.

1741
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 2: But just so you know, I can't wait for this

1742
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 2: great suggestion. Let's make it happen.

1743
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's make it happen.

1744
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 6: I'm ready.

1745
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 3: It's been really fun, guys.

1746
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 2: Tah, you did such a great job and so crazy

1747
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 2: for you guys, And this week just kind of flew by.

1748
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 2: I know it's a complicated week. There's so much going

1749
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 2: on with everyone. So look, everybody, please just be nice

1750
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:31,720
Speaker 2: to yourselves, be nice to each other, of course, but like,

1751
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 2: let's all be a little kind. If you need the nap,

1752
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 2: take the nap. If you need to get the fresh air,

1753
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,559
Speaker 2: get the fresh air, have the piece of cakes, don't sweat.

1754
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:41,680
Speaker 2: Let's just get us to Sunday. We will see you

1755
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 2: in a couple of days and we're crazy for you.

1756
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 6: Words to live by. This has been fun. Thank you,

1757
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 6: And on Sunday we're going to be following up on

1758
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 6: the latest development on that missing woman in Bahamas. Then

1759
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 6: what's going on?

1760
01:32:55,080 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 2: More scientists, scientists, more missing UFO scientists potentially, so more

1761
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:01,479
Speaker 2: on that to come.

1762
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 3: Stay safe,