1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio, 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: American politics has long served as inspiration for movies, plays, 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: and especially television, from shows like The West Wing, Madam Secretary, 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: or Veep, all of which I really enjoyed, to late 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: night comedy shows, and for a lot of people, shows 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: like those have become a major source of information when 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: it comes to our government, our political system, and even 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: the state of the world. You know. In fact, when 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: I was Secretary of State and I was visiting Myanmar 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: formerly Burma, and I went to their first gathering of 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: people who were part of their parliament congress, I was 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: told that a lot of them had learned about politics, 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, not from reading books, but watching The West Wing. 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: So this has a big impact on how people think 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: about politics and government, and that's why I wanted to 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: explore all of it on today's show. So I'll be 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: talking to three people known for playing politics on TV 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: because they have played politicians or talked about politicians, and 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: it's clear their influence extends well beyond their audience. We'll 21 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: hear from Carrie Washington, who is every bit as much 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: of a political Powerhouse as her fictional character Olivia Pope 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: on Scandal, and I'll be talking to Alec Baldwin, who 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: has finally been able to retire from playing Donald Trump 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: on Saturday Night Live. But first, I am so delighted 26 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: to be speaking with Samantha By. Like a lot of people, 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: I first started watching Samantha By during her time as 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: a correspondent on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: in she started her own show, Full Front Told with 30 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: Samantha By on TBS. I really like her biting, hilarious 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: interviews and commentaries on topics that don't get nearly enough 32 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: coverage in the usual news cycle, you know, ones like 33 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: voting rights, or women's health or the importance of reigning 34 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: in big tech. These days, Samantha, her husband, and her 35 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: three kids are waiting out the pandemic in New York City, 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: and I am so happy to have her on this podcast. Hello, Hello, 37 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: oh Samantha, I'm so happy to see you. I am thrilled. 38 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: How are you and your family holding up under the pandemic? Well, 39 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: thank you for asking. I don't know. Well, let's talk 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: about it two years from now and see where we 41 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: are mentally. I mean I'm very grateful nobody in our 42 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: immediate circle was ill. I think we're all like, emotionally 43 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: in the same place everyone else is in. We're so 44 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: ready for this to be over and try to get 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: back to something resembling quote normal life. My kids are 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: in the New York City public school system, and they 47 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: have not been in school for so long. You know, 48 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: my eldest daughter occasionally will go for a very socially distant, 49 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: cold weather masked walk with her friends. But all of 50 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: my young son's friends are immuno compromised in some way, 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: or they live with an elderly relative, so he hasn't 52 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: seen another boy his age since March last year. I mean, 53 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: it's crazy. That is so hard. I think you're right 54 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: on point in saying that we're not going to know 55 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: for a couple of years what all of the costs are. 56 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: We obviously know now more than five hundred thousands people 57 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: have died, which is not to even mention the probably 58 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands more people who died and was never 59 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: attributed to COVID, and the millions of millions and millions 60 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: of millions of people who got so ill and disrupted 61 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: their lives and their work and they're everything. It's so 62 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: it's devastating, and it's one of those I'm incandescitely angry about. Yeah, 63 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: well you're good at incandescent anger. I know throughout the pandemic, 64 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: you've you've continued to, you know, try to do the show. 65 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: I guess you were off for a while, but then 66 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: you came back. Yes, well we didn't actually take that 67 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: much time off. We took only really one show off 68 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: of the calendar. Wow, Because well, I was born in 69 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: Canada and I was raised there, and I am, if 70 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: nothing else, very pragmatic, Like I have a staff of 71 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: about sixty five to seventy people, and for that reason, 72 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: and my husband and I really wanted to get the 73 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: show back on the air as fast as possible, just 74 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: to put like a point of focus on our own week, 75 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: but also on the weeks of all the people who 76 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: work at Full Frontal. Just to have one thing to do, 77 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: to have one thing to be able to say, like, 78 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: I have a mission this week, I thought would be 79 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: really critical. So we worked so hard to get the 80 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: show up and in action as quickly as possible. You know, 81 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: it's such a typical hard working woman's commitment to say 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm going back, I'll multitask, I'll be there very much. So, yeah, 83 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: very much like doing this podcast. You know, we took 84 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: a little break where it started a little later. I'm like, great, 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do the dishes, like exactly. You're always 86 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: there's never really a moment where you just sit and 87 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: stare into space. You know, your show, it's it's almost 88 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: hard to believe now started during the election cycle. I remembered, well, 89 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: and honestly, I don't know how someone with your intelligence 90 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: and point of view really got through the last four 91 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: years because you had to cope with this you know 92 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: phenomenon Donald Trump. I don't know how any of us 93 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: really made it through, to be perfectly honest, yourself especially, 94 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how we did it. I don't know. 95 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that we ever got used to it. 96 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't what we wanted. I definitely, you know, I 97 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: deflected this question a lot, which was like, but aren't 98 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: you secretly happy because it gives you so much to 99 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: talk about on your show? And I was like, trust me, 100 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: there's lots to talk about other than this person. And 101 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: so you know now that we're trying to build the 102 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: show without the looming specter of that person and that 103 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: administration lurching behind us the way that he lurched behind 104 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: you on the stage. You know, we have a full 105 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: slate of stories that we're doing. There's lots to cover, 106 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: there's so many stones to overturn, and and we're approaching 107 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: it really joyfully. Oh that's good. Clearly a lot of 108 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: people get their news from all kinds of sources, but 109 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: one of the sources is comedy shows like yours, and 110 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: you regularly on like some tackle serious issues that you 111 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: clearly feel a sense of urgency about. You tackle family separation, 112 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, me to equal pay and and lots more. 113 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: And how do you balance that? I think difficult role 114 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: of being both a source of comedy and a source 115 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: of information. First of all, I have an incredible team 116 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of bona fide journalists on my team, 117 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: and a really strong adherence to research, commitment to getting 118 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: the story straight. Actually, I have a brain that doesn't 119 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: remember names. Like, if you ask me who my biggest 120 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: influences are, I can never remember the right person, and 121 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: then two hours later I go, oh my god, it 122 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: was her the whole time. I never am so bad 123 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: at that, But I actually was really trying to pin 124 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: it down the other day and I was like, right, 125 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: it's like my show is like this weird intersection of 126 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: like sixty minutes segments that I really love, and also 127 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Jon Stewart, you know, and my years at the Daily Show, 128 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: but also Howard Stern. Like those three influences, if combined, 129 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: have a love of news and a real love of 130 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: great journalism from my early childhood, honestly, and I also 131 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: love comedy, and so the intersection of those worlds it's 132 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: just the sweet spot where I like to live. Tell 133 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: me about one of the episodes you're most proud of. Well, 134 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: as I've stated, I can't ever remember anything that I've 135 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: ever really done, I would say that one of the 136 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: episodes I'm most proud of relates to you. I think 137 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm very proud that we made an episode the day 138 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: after the election, And believe me, it took a lot 139 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: because we were destroyed, um shocked, up hauled. I mean, like, 140 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: who am I talking to right now? But it was 141 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: obviously was an earthquake, and then we were expected to 142 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: go and make jokes, and we had this loon drop 143 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: planned and we had Lizzo was on a private jet 144 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: to the studio to sing an awesome song about feeling great. 145 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: We were all peers and retreating into our turtlenecks, and 146 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: people on staff with family members in Iran, We're like, 147 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm never going to see my family again. Like so, 148 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: I'm really proud that we dusted it off and did 149 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: a show. I'm proud of our show about family separation 150 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: and multiple shows. I'm proud of our coverage of the 151 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: Me Too movement. I'm really proud of the people that 152 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: I work with. They're just great. Well. But it also 153 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: I think added to this whole sense of protecting democracy, 154 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: protecting the vulnerable and the marginalized, standing up to all 155 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: these forces that came out from under all the rocks 156 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: that were kicked over, and perhaps on a more shallow note, 157 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: it is also nice, well, okay, on an shallow note, 158 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm happy to have planted a flag in history and 159 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: said I'm on this side. This is where we stand, 160 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: and we think this is an abomination and we're just 161 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: gonna park it right here, and we're just going to 162 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: keep saying that until it's over. And this is the 163 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: shallow part. I'm really happy to be on the correct 164 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: side of Ted Cruise. Yes, we've gone hard on Ted 165 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: Cruise over the years on the show, and it feels 166 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: great to be so right. Sometimes you just have to 167 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: bathe in that golden glow. Yeah, you've earned a place 168 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: there and you should just keep under that bright light 169 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: of vindication. But the other thing you've done, which of 170 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: course I pay particular attention to, is you've been quite 171 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: brave and stepping up and saying, wait a minute, it's 172 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: not just what the politicians are doing. It's the way 173 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: the media covers what they're doing. But when you go 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: after the media, of which you are a part, how 175 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: does that work out? You actually have to be very 176 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: thoughtful about it. We're a part of the media ecosystem, 177 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: and we can't make everyone in the media mad at us, 178 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: or then they won't cover our show. So that's a 179 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: really serious part of our internal conversations. It's like, how 180 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: do we talk about Facebook when we're promoting our show 181 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: on Facebook? And ultimately, we have taken really I think 182 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: we've taken really big swings, and I'm proud that we 183 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: stick to our guns. I definitely experienced. You know, I 184 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: can't believe I'm bringing it up because they don't often 185 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: choose to bring it up. But when I had my 186 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: biggest controversy when I used a slur against Ivanka Trump, 187 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: I really had a moment where I just I felt 188 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: like I walked through fire. I felt like I walked 189 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 1: over hot coals and came out on the other side 190 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: with a deep understanding of how a big story can 191 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: just be totally obfuscated by a small medium moment of 192 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: a lady calling another lady a bad thing when what 193 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: we were really talking about was family separation, Like, the 194 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: story became what I had said versus the story that 195 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: I was trying to cover, And for about a week, 196 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: the story in the media was what a shame that, 197 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, the use of the slur took away from 198 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: that story about family separation. What a shame. And I 199 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: was like, you're the media, that's right, you're supposed to 200 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: cover the other thing. That's not myum a comedy lady, like, 201 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this. It's not comedic. 202 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: Where our hearts are broken right now, it's your job 203 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: to go, oh, that was a thing, But what was 204 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: she really talking? Right, we should be focusing on family 205 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: separation seven until it's remedied. But you know what happened 206 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: to you as you just described, it shows part of 207 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: a much bigger pattern, which is how easy it is 208 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: to deflect the so called mainstream media away from underlying stories. 209 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: They're so easily distracted. We see it all the time. 210 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: And there was a public appetite too for that kind 211 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: of distraction. I mean, I do worry that we all 212 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: maybe have the attention span of goldfish. It's really really 213 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: hard work to stay focused on stories that no one 214 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: wants to talk about. Well, is there some story looking 215 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: back now four years ago that you thought is the 216 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: most important, untold or undertold story from the Trump era? Yes? 217 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: I mean the answer is yes, times ten thousand. His 218 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: international business dealings is just a story that did not 219 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: grip people. You know, Adam Davidson was doing like incredible 220 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: reporting at The New Yorker about his business ties in 221 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: Azerbaijan and internationally that are fascinating, and just a ball 222 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: of tangled wire to unferral his tax dealings, his relationships 223 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: to known money launderers, like all of those stories just 224 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: nothing stuck. I agree with you, But when thinking about 225 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: these last four years as you've chronicled them, I think 226 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: it's important to ask how close do you think we 227 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: came to really losing our democracy to you know, seeing 228 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: changes that we're almost becoming irreversible. I think we came 229 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: much too close to another Trump victory. Honestly, when as 230 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: I say it out loud as we're talking about it, 231 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: I did start to sweat. There is an enormous number 232 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: of people who said yes to more of that, and 233 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: that I find so scary and so daunting. So I 234 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: think we came really close, and I think we are 235 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: still close. Listen, I think people are generally and I 236 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: still say this after five years of doing the show. 237 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: They think people are generally good. We're a nation of 238 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: really great people. We can do it, but it takes 239 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: so much work, and so does I do worry a 240 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: little bit that we're going to kind of come out 241 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: of the pandemic into the roaring twenties again and being 242 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: really loosen, we're great colors and Peppy's leaves and start 243 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: partying and kind of forget about the underlying meat on 244 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: the bone of keeping this work going. I think you're 245 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: so right to point that out, because that's what happened 246 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: after the so called Spanish Flu. We went into the 247 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, the Roaring nineteen twenties, and I mean, I 248 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: want people to roar again, the economy to roar again. 249 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: But I do want people, as you rightly say, Samantha, 250 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: to think about what we went through. I can't thank 251 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: you enough for what you do all the time. You 252 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: really try to help us all understand better what we're 253 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: going through. Well, the feeling is very mutual, my friend. 254 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: I hope your kids get to have a play date sometimes. 255 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: I hope they get to go back to school sometime. 256 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: The same for your grandkids. I hope they get to 257 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: meet other kids. Happy novel. They're all like a bunch 258 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: of little you know, Martian aliens coming to gather for 259 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: the first time. You're just going to play the mirror game. 260 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: What are you? What are you? Where have you been? Oh? Samantha, 261 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much and please keep going. We need you. 262 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: Thank you. You can catch Samantha Wednesday nights on TBS, 263 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: and you can also hear from her on her podcast 264 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: Full Release with Samantha B. Now I'm getting to talk 265 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: to Carrie Washington. She's an actor, producer, director. She runs 266 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: her own production company called Simpson Street. I first became 267 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: aware of her certainly on Scandal, literally couldn't take my 268 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: eyes off of her because of her grace and her 269 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: power on the screen and in real life. She's a 270 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: dedicated advocate on behalf of racial justice, voting rights, democracy, 271 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: and so much more. So. Welcome. I'm so happy you're 272 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: with us, Carrie, Thank you, thank you so much for 273 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: having me. I want to talk about your amazing career 274 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: and the fabulous roles you've played, but I want to 275 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,479 Speaker 1: start on the activism side, because I think you and 276 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: I share a sense of urgency. Last year, you joined 277 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: the Black Voices for Black just As Fund as a 278 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: co chair, and you ended up helping to distribute over 279 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: one and a half million dollars to black leaders fighting 280 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: for a more fair, equitable, anti racist America. What does 281 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: that work mean to you. I'm really proud to be 282 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: a co chair for the fund because one of my superpowers, 283 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: because of how lucky I've been in my career, is 284 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: that people pay attention to the things I'm doing or saying, 285 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: whether I like it or not, whether you know, whether 286 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: it's like pop Rozzi following me around when I'm pregnant 287 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. For some reason, I have eyeballs 288 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: on me at times, and so to be able to 289 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: shift the as eyeballs and resources to activists on the 290 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: ground who are doing the day to day work of 291 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,719 Speaker 1: ending racism, working towards equity, working towards liberation for all people. 292 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: I'm so passionate about that. I wanted to talk to 293 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: you not only because of you know, the great roles 294 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: you've played and your success, but because you feel so 295 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: deeply that this work is critical to your life, the 296 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: lives of your children, and to our country. Yeah. We 297 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: produced a project this year at Simpson Street called The Fight. 298 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: It's a documentary about the a c l U. I 299 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: think this film is the thing I'm most proud of 300 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: in my career today, which is so funny because it's 301 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: the one project where I'm not on camera right, but 302 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: it's um. I love this film so much because we 303 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: had unprecedented access into the a c l U. And 304 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you the a c l 305 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: U has sued every administration in the last one years. Democrat, Republican, 306 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. They are invested in defending the human rights 307 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: of all people. And so we got to be the 308 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: trenches with these lawyers and get to know them. For 309 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: the superheroes that they are defending justice, but also we 310 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: got to go home with them, so we got to 311 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: see them, you know, trying to keep their kids quiet 312 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: while they're on a zoom call and losing, you know, 313 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: being afraid that they're not going to be able to 314 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: hear the Supreme Court decision because they can't find their 315 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: charger for their cell phone. Right Like, we got to 316 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: to just see them as everyday people. And one of 317 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: the things that we really like to do at the 318 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: company is figure out how to upend otherness. Right Like, 319 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: there is this paradigm and culture that a certain kind 320 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: of person is the hero of the story, the hero 321 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: of of our legends are sort of shared cultural stories, 322 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: and that there are other people who get to play 323 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: supporting roles and characters. And traditionally women have been in 324 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: the supporting role, and people of color have been in 325 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: the supporting role, the wife, the best friend, and that 326 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: the heroes have been you know, straight white, cis gender men. 327 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: And so we really like the idea of up ending 328 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: that idea that each of us is at the center 329 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: of our own story in real life and in our 330 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: shared narratives. Well, you really upended a lot of those, 331 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: uh preconceptions. With Scandal, where you played Olivia Pope, everyone 332 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: knows that alter ego a powerful black woman with a 333 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: prominent position in Washington, and I think you really helped 334 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: to change the entertainment world and the discussion about whose 335 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: story is worth telling. And although this was a fictional character, 336 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: it was still something that gripped the imagination of millions 337 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: of people looking back on that. How do you feel 338 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: about Olivia Pope and Scandal now? You know, I think 339 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot about the history of Scandal now that I'm 340 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: out of it. I think when I was in it, 341 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: it was such a whirlwind. You know, it's hard to 342 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: have perspective about these big historic moments while they're unfolding. 343 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: But you know, when when our show for aired, people 344 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: talked about how much of a quote unquote risk it 345 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: was for the network to center a black woman as 346 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: the lead of a network drama. And it hadn't happened 347 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: in I think thirty eight years at the time, almost 348 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: forty years, and I was in my early thirties, so 349 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: in my lifetime, I hadn't seen it. And I just 350 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: remember the pressure, the pressure, the expectations of like you 351 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: have to succeed. I felt like, if our show didn't 352 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: make it, it would be another forty years before a 353 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: woman of color. You yeah, you, I felt it. But 354 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: what was thrilling was not because we were so great. 355 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: We worked really hard on that show, but because audiences 356 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: showed up. Audiences turned on their televisions, they recorded us 357 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: on their DVR, they talked about us on social media. 358 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: We became a success, which allowed for other women of color. 359 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: Panco Chopra had to show. Viola Davis had a show 360 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: and made history winning the Emmy, like you know, Empire, 361 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: all of these other show was that centered black women 362 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: because suddenly it wasn't a risk, Suddenly we were approven 363 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: deal exactly. It changed the landscape of who we believe 364 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: deserves to be at the center of stories on network television. Well, 365 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: when you're talking about how long it had been, I 366 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: couldn't help but think about Cecily Tyson, who we just 367 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: recently lost, and she was someone who I admired from 368 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: a distance. I remember Sounder. I remember Miss Jane Pittman 369 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: and Miss Jane Pittman was a one hour long TV movie. 370 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, exactly, and I remember when I saw 371 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: it all those years ago, probably before you were born. 372 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: I was so struck by how what should have been 373 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: a breakthrough back then, you know, kind of went silent, 374 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: and then it had to be done all over again. 375 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: And one of the challenges will be making sure it 376 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: doesn't revert back. I just love her. I won't even 377 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: say loved. I love her so so so much. I 378 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: have all these connections to her. She was at my 379 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: baby shower from my Isabel. She and Diane Carroll Um 380 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: and Jane Fonda, all my kind of like Hollywood goddess 381 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: mentors um. But I was born on the night of 382 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: the last episode of Roots. Oh my gosh. That funny. 383 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: And I know that because my dad was not in 384 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: the delivery room. He was in the waiting room with 385 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: the nurses watching the final episode of My mother was like, 386 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: where is everybody? It's a very famous story in our family. 387 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. You know. 388 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: You have taken on so many roles, but one very 389 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: moving performance was when you played Anita Hill in the 390 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: movie Confirmation about her incredibly brave testimony during Clarence Thomas's 391 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: confirmation hearings in did you meet her when you were 392 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: making the movie? I did tell me about that. She 393 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: was so generous with sharing her experience with me, and 394 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: I'll be forever grateful because it's a real responsibility. I mean, 395 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: it's funny. Cecily Tyson talked about this a lot, the 396 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: responsibility of sort of playing characters with dignity, and with 397 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: Anita Hill, there's no way not to. She's such a 398 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: person of grace and elegance, and even her fierce courage 399 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: came cloaked in her elegant dignity at all times. So 400 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: I really I loved having the opportunity to play her. 401 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: But I also really loved producing that material right because 402 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: it allowed me to have a real voice at the 403 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: table about what her experience was like as a black woman, 404 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that there was authent the city there. 405 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: And also she and I had a great laugh because 406 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: when I shot that scene of the Senate hearing, I 407 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: got to experience what she felt of being this black 408 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: woman facing a sea of powerful white men sitting above her, 409 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: looking down on her, just like attacking her with questions 410 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: at times. The twist from what she did and what 411 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: I did thirty years later was that now all of 412 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: those white men were actually working for me, and so 413 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: I got to sort of live in the emotional tumult 414 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: that she experienced. But when we called cut, I was 415 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: in charge, and we we really sort of laughed about 416 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: how wonderful that was that I could honor her in 417 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: that way. Well, you're so right about that elegant dignity. 418 00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: She withstood such a brutal, consistent attack on her character 419 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: and her veracity, and you know, it did trigger a reaction, 420 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, the women of the House marched over to 421 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: the Senate. Changes were made, women were elected. But I 422 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: could not help thinking about her during the Brett Kavanaugh 423 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: confirmation hearings because I thought about how controlled and careful 424 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: she had been when she was being attacked. And then 425 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: we saw Christine blazie Ford feeling, you know, very pained 426 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: because they wouldn't believe her, and I thought, you know, 427 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: these two women decades apart, telling their truth in their 428 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: own way, and they're both being disrespected. I really thought 429 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: a lot about Anita Hill, Professor Hill, in that moment too, 430 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: because the attack on her, just like the attack on 431 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Christine Blasie Ford, was concocted so that Clarence Thomas, who 432 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: I went to lost gool with, I have known a 433 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: very long time. Wow. And the reactions that he and 434 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh both had were deliberately absolutely intended to spark indignation 435 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: and outrage. I mean, the whole thing was just, you know, 436 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to me, because you know, you'd hope that things 437 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: would have changed more than they did, given how brave 438 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, those women were to come forward to do 439 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: what they thought of as you know, their duty. Yeah. 440 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: I spoke to Anita a lot in that period. I 441 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: remember calling her and checking on her, and one of 442 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: the things that I thought a lot about was, these 443 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: are the moments that invite us to realize that we 444 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: don't get to check out right, these are the moments 445 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: that pull us back in. We don't get to act 446 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: like this is ancient history, exactly that misogyny is ancient history. 447 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: And also these moments provide us with an opportunity to 448 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: see that there are systems in place, that this is 449 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: not about personalities, This is not about individuals, This is systematic. 450 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: I just think it's so important for us to to 451 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: hold that and to somehow like to somehow keep working 452 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: for change, right, to somehow keep saying yes, well. I 453 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: also think there has to be a way of using storytelling, 454 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: which is what you're an expert at in helping us 455 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: craft a news story that welcomes everybody in. But people 456 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: have to be willing to ask hard questions of themselves 457 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: and you know, of their own view of reality. And 458 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: of course that's become infinitely harder because of social media, 459 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: which traps people in these very divided, you know, Fox realities. 460 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: How would you even think about that, because you're a storyteller, 461 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: you're a producer of stories. How would we try to 462 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: think of a broader basis for such a an effort. 463 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: I think a big part of it is again inviting 464 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: people to understand that they are the hero of their story, 465 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: because I think we get involved, even in politics, maybe 466 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: especially in politics, in this hero worship where we place 467 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: the power for change in the hand of this person 468 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: that we have idolized, and we expect other people to 469 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: fix our problems, and so our stories get corrupted by 470 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: the idea that we don't have agency, that people that 471 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: look like us, walk like us, talk like us, are 472 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: in fact us, that we can't make the change. I mean, 473 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: I remember waking up the morning after the election in 474 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: and my social media was flooded with Olivia Pope. You 475 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: have to fix this, Olivia, I wish you could to day. Yeah, 476 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: me too. At the time, saved the day, and I 477 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: remember thinking like, oh, this is actually part of the problem, right, 478 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: because so many people sat out because somebody else was 479 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: supposed to do the work. Somebody else was going to vote, 480 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: somebody else was going to knock on doors, somebody else 481 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: was going to make it better. And I remember thinking like, Okay, 482 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: how do I and it really sort of galvanized my activism. 483 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: How do I get people to understand that Olivia Pope 484 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: is not a real person, that that you, each person, 485 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: each one of you that just tweeted that you have 486 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: infinitely more power than Olivia Pope because you can vote, 487 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: you can volunteer, you can fill out your senses, you 488 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: can actually make a difference in your community. And so 489 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: getting our stories to be rooted in the idea of 490 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: our power as people to impact our communities positively, I 491 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: think that is really import and yes, we need great leaders, 492 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,959 Speaker 1: but I think our greatest leaders are the ones who 493 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: look back to us and say, I'm here to represent you. 494 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: The power is yours, I am your voice. Just that 495 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: like constant willingness to center the people and to make 496 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: the people the solution instead of those small number of heroes. 497 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: I agree with that completely. You know, for months after 498 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: that election, I had a steady stream of people, mostly 499 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: young women, coming up and apologizing, often bursting into tears. 500 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know you needed my vote. I didn't know 501 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: you needed my help. I felt like I was I 502 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: was supposed to be giving absolution. It was the strangest experience. 503 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: But out of that, at least we saw first and 504 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 1: and then we saw again in I think the number 505 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: of people who understood that they did have not only 506 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: an opportunity but a responsibility for me. Really, in the 507 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: advocacy and activism space, it's so much is about centering 508 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: other heroes, right, like centering not centering myself. Like even 509 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: on the campaign trail, not saying like you should vote 510 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: for Biden and Harris because I'm Carrie Washington, and I 511 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: tell you to know, like, it's not about that. It's like, 512 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: you have the power as a community to transform your community. 513 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: Look at these candidates and look at how much better 514 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: they will be for you. It has nothing to do 515 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: with me. I'm here to be a conduit too, and 516 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: for you to understand your power for you to know 517 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: that you're so much more powerful than Olivia Pope. That's 518 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: what I'm here to share with you. I know because 519 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: I was her, and she does not have your power. 520 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: She really doesn't carry Washington. I am just so grateful 521 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: to know you, and you've got so much more to 522 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: do ahead of you. It's very exciting for me to 523 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: have this chance to talk with you. Thank you so much, 524 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. What an honor and delay. You 525 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: can keep up with Carrie's acting and her activism on 526 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: social media, and I highly recommend the documentary she produced, 527 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: called The Fight, which is streaming online in lots of places. 528 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: Go to Fight the film dot com to check it out. 529 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: I can't talk about politics on TV without talking about 530 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: what is like to see myself portrayed on Saturday Night Live. 531 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: I can't say that I've enjoyed every part of it, 532 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: but I certainly have admired the extraordinary abilities of the 533 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: actors who have portrayed me, most recently the terrific Kate McKinnon, 534 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: and opposite her, of course, was my next guest, Alec Baldwin, 535 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: masterfully playing a role he never imagined he'd be stuck 536 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: with for four years and for this he blamed s 537 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: n l's legendary producer, Lauren Michaels. But he also played 538 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: another Republican character, Jack Donneghee opposite Tina Fey on Thirty Rock. 539 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: In real life, he's a proud Democrat. He's lent his 540 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: voice and his energy and talents to countless political causes 541 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: and candidates over the years. How are you doing, Alec? 542 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: Are you holding up? I'm good, but I'm intimidated as 543 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: always because what could I possibly talk to you about politics? 544 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: What could I possibly say to you? This is like 545 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: Joe Namath throwing a football with a four year old. 546 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: Maybe the four year old was I don't know, Tom Brady, 547 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: who knows right future? A budding star. Well, first of all, 548 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: you have a lot to say about a lot of things. 549 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: I know that because we've had the chance to talk before. 550 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: But it's so interesting for me to hear your perspective 551 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: about where we are today versus where we were a year, 552 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: two year, three years ago, because know, you gave voice, 553 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: gave life to a couple of different characters whose politics 554 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: you don't agree with at all. And it's not just Trump, 555 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: it's you know, Jack Donneghie and you know, how did 556 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: this become your specialty? Oh god, I needed a job 557 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: and they paid me. I'll play any woman to play. 558 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I'll find a way. But when 559 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: I think about the Trump thing on S and L, 560 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: and it's so ironic to talk to you, of all 561 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: people that you know, Lawrence said to me, it's only 562 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: gonna be two shows. We you know who's gonna win, 563 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: and it's only gonna be two shows. And I thought, okay, 564 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: I can. I can bite the bullet and and endure 565 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: this for two shows. So it's election night two thousand 566 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: and sixteen, and my wife and I are watching the 567 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: TV and and finally we go to bed. We just 568 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: can't take any and we fall asleep, and three o'clock 569 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: in the morning rolls around. I wake up and I go, 570 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: he won. And my wife rolled up and goes, oh 571 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: god no, And then she rolled over and went back 572 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: to bed, and I sat there and I went, Now 573 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: I got to play this character for the next four 574 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: were years. Knowing Lauren, he'd be like, come on them, 575 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: he was here first call it like four o'clock in 576 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: the morning, right right right now, he's he's he's going 577 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: to bed at four o'clock in the morning with his schedule. 578 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: But I think the point that I always think about 579 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: is that people say to me, you know, what was 580 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: the point in your mind, like why did you do this? 581 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: Because it wasn't about money or anything. I said that 582 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: it's one thing if people have reversals, they make mistakes, 583 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: and you attack them. There are Republican candidates that I 584 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: have admired in some sense. Romney was a successful businessman. 585 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: I might not agree with some of his policies. McCain 586 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: was somebody I could agree with. I mean, there are 587 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: Republicans that if they won, I could have lived with. 588 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: But when this guy came and you're a New Yorker 589 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: and you knew what he was and wasn't, what I 590 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: thought was there's people who you will never change their mind. 591 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: There's people who don't ever need to change their mind, 592 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: and that group in the middle. We thought if we 593 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: kept doing it. At least in my mind, I thought, 594 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: if I kept doing it, one year goes by, two 595 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: years goes by, and they go, well, I thought he 596 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: would change, adapt and become better at the job. And 597 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: what we reminded them of us, he's not changing, he's 598 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: not growing. Every human being, as you know, better than 599 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: I'll ever know every man thus far who's in that job. 600 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: What a journey of growth exactly to be the president 601 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: of the United States. That we talk about what you 602 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: see and learn. So when he came along and we 603 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 1: kept giving it to him, it was to remind people 604 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: that he isn't changing. There's a benefit of the doubt 605 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 1: we gave him, and he's already gone past the statute 606 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: of limitations on that. But given what a rabid, obsessive 607 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: TV watcher he is, I thought also, you know, maybe 608 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: there was a tiny sliver of self recognition, but no, 609 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: there is not a smidgeon of self awareness. I don't 610 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: think people would send me framed cartoons, you know, not 611 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: not many, but a handful of them. And my favorite 612 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: one was one of them where the guy and the 613 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: women are watching Trump and they go, boy, that Alec 614 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: Baldwin is amazing, and the other person goes, that's Trump. 615 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny that someone told me that some 616 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: of the things you might want to cover are the 617 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: representation of the presidency in the media. And for me 618 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: and I date myself, I am rounding the corner here 619 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: towards sixty three years al and but but the representation 620 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 1: of the presidency has and I'll pick two examples of 621 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: someone overwhelmed, be leaguered, exhausted, and yet still maintaining that 622 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: core of integrity and ethical primacy that that role demands. 623 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: I always think of Frederick marchin Seven Days in May, 624 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: and he played the president as this so exhausted and 625 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: enervated by the job, and all these bad things were 626 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: happening around him, and yet he maintained his dignity. And 627 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: I also think of, in a much more almost sci 628 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: fi esque surreal tableau, was Henry Fonda in Fail Safe. 629 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: And now he had to maintain his cool in that chamber. 630 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: He's the president. People are counting on you to not 631 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: act the way other average men might act or women 632 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: if you were bated in this way, so that whenever 633 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: the presidency is portrayed as someone with a preternatural emotional 634 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: steel and will and faith. But you know, it's so 635 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: interesting you mentioned that, Alec, because you know, as a 636 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: woman running for president, I grew up with the same movies. 637 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: I grew up with the same images of real presidents 638 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: who had to withstand tremendous pressure. Whether you know it 639 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: was Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis, or you know, 640 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: looking at what Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford went through 641 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: all the way up into you know, modern times with 642 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: George W. Bush after nine eleven. And you know, my 643 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: understanding of the presidency is exactly as you describe it. 644 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: And I write in my book what happened when you 645 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: know Trump is baiting me and leering at me in 646 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: the seck in debate, and I'm sitting there thinking, Okay, 647 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: do I turn around and really take him up? Or 648 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: do I maintain that calm and that dignity, because that's 649 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: what presidents do. But in today's world, the entertainment factor, 650 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: the so called you know, authenticity, which often to me 651 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: is really a miss you know, nomer, because what you're 652 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: seeing in our meltdowns and nastiness and mean spiritedness, if 653 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: we look at you know, somebody like Trump, how do 654 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: you maintain it? You know, the presidency obviously has a 655 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: very unique place in your life. To say the least. 656 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: I remember a woman I spoke to who shall remain nameless, 657 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: who was adjacent to the Biden campaign. We spoke on 658 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: the phone about something, and I took the opportunity. I 659 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: lunged for the opportunity to say to her, can I 660 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: tell you what I think he should do? Can I 661 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: go offer you my unsolicited advice? And she was very kind, 662 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: she should go for it, please and I and I said, 663 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: just tell him, just you know, it's his to lose. 664 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: Don't take the bait. Let Trump be um. And I 665 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: really mean this. I want to say, be more like her. 666 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: In the debate where you did mainta You were standing there, 667 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: like you said, Tom Brady in the pocket, I'm gonna 668 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: throw this ball into the end zone. You didn't let 669 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: him get to you. That's always the better choice. I 670 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 1: want to loop back with what we were talking about 671 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: earlier because I want to ask you something about comedy 672 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: and about sn L in particular. I appreciated your depiction 673 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: of Trump. Do you think actually doing what you did 674 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: and what SNL does, making terrible people sort of more 675 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: palatable to the general public kind of helps them in 676 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 1: a way. I've heard that many times, many times, that 677 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: what we did only softened the impact of how bad 678 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: they were. But you know, Lord Michaels is someone who 679 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: has steered a show. They're rounding the corner now, towards 680 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 1: fifty years of being on the air. Isn't that astonishing? 681 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: Now the show they found a way with all of 682 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: the digital and online platforms and everything to bring the 683 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: show to an audience that's almost larger than ever. There 684 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: was a larger audience at the heyday, the Friends and 685 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: Seinfeld era of TV watching, and then it went down 686 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: and now it's back up to where. You know, when 687 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: I was doing the debates and McKinnon played you, he 688 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: played the Jaws music and I was coming up behind. 689 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: When the Jaws music is playing the debate one of 690 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: my favorites, one of the funniest things I've ever seen. 691 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: We're doing that, and uh, you know, but Lauren is 692 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: someone who knows that he has two constituents to serve, 693 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: the people that own the company and his audience and 694 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: his staff and writers. And there are lines that he 695 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: has asked to cross all the time that he will 696 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 1: not cross. There are things people pitch. I've pitched things 697 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: which he said there and said to me, maybe not 698 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: because he doesn't want the show to become just outrageous 699 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: or a bully pulpit. It's an entertainment program. And the 700 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: one thing that we were criticized for but I was 701 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: nonetheless the most satisfied with it, and I took the 702 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: greatest pleasure from which is what we said were verbatim 703 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: transcripts of what he had said. You couldn't criticize this 704 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: and say we imagine it was a fantasy. He said it, 705 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: he did it, and we would just do that, and 706 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: I forever I'm grateful for that, because we didn't cross 707 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: with any bounds. Everything was in the whalm of reality. 708 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: But you're right, there are some people who we rallied 709 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: the troops on the other side, we rallied our opposition. 710 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: They would sit there and they were like, you know, 711 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: if I was dying in the desert and Alec Baldwin 712 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: gave me a canteen, I'd rather die than dream from 713 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 1: now like Baldwin's canteen. There is that group. Let's talk 714 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: for a second about thirty Rock and about the character 715 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,760 Speaker 1: you play, Jack Donneghie, which you were brilliant at and 716 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, the boss to the Tina Fey character Liz Lemon, 717 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: and the way you portrayed Donnaghie is that you know, 718 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: you were a Reagan Republican who was going to Reagan 719 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: when you died well. I viewed Donna g as what 720 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: we used to call when I was younger, a Rockefeller Republican, 721 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: which it really wasn't about social issues. Men can go 722 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: ahead and marry each other, and uh, I don't have 723 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: any opinions about other social issues like a woman's right 724 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: to choose and so forth. He's a Rockefeller Republican, which 725 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,959 Speaker 1: means there's no problem you can have in this life 726 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: that can't be solved by making more money. And I 727 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: would really appreciate it if the government in every week 728 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: just got out of the way. I mean, I want 729 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: lower taxes and less regulations of my business, and I'm fine. 730 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: There was a scene I'm on a balcony, I'm on 731 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: a terrace with Tina, and of course the Donaghee character 732 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: was all Robert Carla Cantina. I didn't write it. They're 733 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: the geniuses here and I'm on a balcony with a 734 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: glass of wine and Tina says, I'm working so hard 735 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: and I don't know what e's gonna happen in my life. 736 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: She goes, I'm getting older now. Pretty soon, no one's 737 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: gonna want to even see me naked. And I don't 738 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 1: flinch and I have a drink in my hand, and 739 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: I go, will you make enough money you pay someone 740 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: to see you? And that is donneghese philosophy. Who as 741 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: long as we're making a lot of money, what do 742 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: you care? Money solves everything? But that description of that 743 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: scene and his philosophy. I ran across that in this 744 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: last election. I mean you did too. You know, you 745 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: grew up with people on Long Island who said to you, right, look, 746 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,359 Speaker 1: I can't stand the guy, you know, I think he's 747 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: over the top, etcetera, etcetera. But hey, I'm doing well. 748 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: You know, the business is doing well. He got my taxes. 749 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: I don't care what else he does. Right that, that 750 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: is a real but but you know more of you 751 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: and your husband know more about this than anybody you're 752 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: out here where there are some obviously a lot of 753 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: privileged people. I guess from time to time their attitude was, 754 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm not voting for Trump. I just can't vote for Biden. Yeah, 755 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,359 Speaker 1: I just would not vote for it. You're gonna raise 756 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: my taxes, You're gonna raise my capital gains. I can't 757 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: stand Trump. I'm gonna hold my nose, but I'll never 758 00:45:47,880 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: vote for a never, never we'll be right back. We 759 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: do have to keep laughing. I mean, part of what 760 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 1: I worry about is that the stuff that's happening in 761 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: the country right now is deadly serious, and we know 762 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: how divided we are, and it's a kind of contradiction. 763 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: And I'd love your insight into this and what role 764 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: comedy and theater and and and your work as an 765 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: actor could bring in trying to shine a light on 766 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: some common ground. Is there a way for people to 767 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 1: begin talking to each other again in a useful way? 768 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: I think now that Trump has gone yes, because Trump 769 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: was something we could not set that aside. There are 770 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: people that have had they won. I had profound differences 771 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: of opinion with them, but I could have bitten the 772 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: bullet and a few months goes by and you accept, 773 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: and you also know that we get back to that 774 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: idea of that person growing in the job. George W. 775 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,320 Speaker 1: Bush grew with the job. Who would have thought, especially 776 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: if you're in there two terms, what it are to 777 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: be able to change and expand your mind and your 778 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: humanity And with Trump, none of that. So we had 779 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,720 Speaker 1: no choice. It was truly our civic duty to resist 780 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: him and to underline what he was doing. Now that 781 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: he's gone, we might not solve every problem, but we 782 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,439 Speaker 1: have a chance. With Biden and Harrass, we have a chance. 783 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: Is there anybody currently on the political scene that you 784 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,919 Speaker 1: would want to, you know, play or in some way 785 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 1: convey an image of I want to get away from 786 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 1: the comedy thing now. I really want to kind of 787 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: scrape that coat of paint off me and go do 788 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,959 Speaker 1: I've got some dramatic things lined up. I think right now, 789 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: where I'm kind of setting my lane I'm getting back 790 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: into is working with the United Nations the Environmental Program. 791 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: Because you know, there's institutions that you sit there and 792 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: you want to criticize them. The post office is a 793 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 1: good example. I used to say to myself, why don't 794 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: FedEx and ups just by the post office? And then 795 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: you thought to yourself, oh god, if we made the 796 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: post office a business, how many people would get hurt? 797 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,320 Speaker 1: So I got off that idea. I have a sense 798 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: of some institutions and if I'm critical of them, I 799 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: realized to some degree, I don't fully understand how they 800 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: really work and their importance. And one of those that 801 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: I have abundant faith and I've always been so honored 802 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,720 Speaker 1: to be invited to the party is the United Nations, 803 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: and I'm really going to go full born now into 804 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: my un EP work. We're going off to Norway, We're 805 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: going off to Scotland for the Global Conference. My wife 806 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: and I are really going to commit to showing up 807 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: for these events to support the work of the United 808 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 1: Nations Environmental Program. Good for you. Environmentalism is my new 809 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: big thing yet that I'm going back to more of that. Yea. 810 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: Let me just say to you as we close, and 811 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: that is you and you hear this from your friends, 812 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: and you hear this from your supporters and fans all 813 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: the time. Democrat in the White House, Republican in the 814 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: White House, COVID, no COVID. We need to hear your 815 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: voice giving your measured opinion of all these things. Please 816 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,399 Speaker 1: don't stop doing these shows. Okay I won't, and let's 817 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: keep the conversation going. Thank you. You can hear more 818 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: from Alec on his podcast. Here's the thing. Thanks for 819 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: joining us. If you have a favorite version of politics 820 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,840 Speaker 1: on TV, send us a note at You and Me 821 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: Both pod at gmail dot com because we love hearing 822 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: from you. You and Me Both is brought to you 823 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: by my Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen 824 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help from Juma Aberdeen, Nicky 825 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: E tour, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, 826 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: Rob Russo and Lona vl Moro. Our engineer is Zack 827 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: McNeice and the original music is by Forest Gray. If 828 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: you like you and me both, please tell someone else 829 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what 830 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? You can subscribe to you and 831 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,760 Speaker 1: me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts 832 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.