WEBVTT - Streaming Tops Cable and Apple's Monopoly 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.640 From the heart of where innovation, money and power Colli 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:11.000 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:27.280 Emily jay I. Remember like check in San Francisco, and 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.560 this is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.680 For the first time ever, streaming topped cable, with US 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.839 viewers watching more on Netflix, Who and Disney Plus and 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:41.120 more than cable television. We'll digin to a historic see 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.760 change in entertainment and just how far the wave will go. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.320 Plus the venture capitalist who claims Apple is the greatest 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.360 monopolist today. Why he thinks regulators are losing the plot 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.920 while chasing Meta and Amazon, and it could be the 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.840 fire Festival of travel startups. We'll tell you about Pollen, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.280 a luxury trip planner that blew up during COVID. It 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.119 started with big concerts canceled, then things quickly spiraled out 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.000 of control. Meantime, for the first time ever, US viewers 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.320 are watching more hours on streaming than cable, marking a 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.800 historic change in entertainment. Subscribers to services like Netflix and 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.520 Hulu accounted for thirty four point eight percent of all 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.240 TV consumption in July, according to research from Nielsen, that 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:32.319 edged out cable television at thirty four point four broadcast 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.080 a distant one point six percent. Let's break this all 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.160 down with Blue Ver Fluca Shaan Kevin Tran media and 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.160 entertainment analyst for the Decision Intelligence Company, Morning Console Lucas. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.560 I'll start with you. Set the stage here, the big picture. 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.080 What are these numbers tell us well that that streaming 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.600 TV continues to gain share from broadcasting and cable. I mean, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.160 Nielsen rolled out this metric, the Gauge, a couple of 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.200 years ago. It was one of the first of these 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.080 third party metrics that Netflix actually endorsed. It had been 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.080 very skeptical through the Nielsen weekly ratings, and there was 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.200 a period of about a year ago, I want to say, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.840 where streaming share seemed to flatline, and you've had a 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.520 lot of traditional media people saying, Oh, it's streaming hit 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.600 its peak, and that clearly hasn't happened. The one thing 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.360 I would note is that if you put cable and 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.000 broadcast together, PayTV still accounts for more TV viewing than streaming, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.520 but streaming is gaining share and is only going to 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:26.480 continue to do so. Kevin, what's your take, Um, you know, 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:28.920 just a couple of months ago, we were talking about 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:33.800 Netflix losing subscribers, and here we are with these big numbers. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.480 How do you square that? Yeah, I think it just 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.480 speaks to the amazing amount of content that's available across 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:46.280 the other services that are in Netflix, UM, Paramount Plus, Hulu, 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.239 Apple TV Plus have all really pushed their original strategy 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.160 really far ahead, especially after the initial COVID outbreak, And 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:58.919 like Lucas just mentioned, UM, this streaming gauge that Nielsen 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.880 has rolled out is in really helpful because the streaming 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.160 companies themselves don't report a metric uniformly that can be 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.240 allow others to measure uh you know, usage or reach 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.440 among them across each other. So it's a big moment 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.400 for for streaming to overtake traditional I would can expect 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.559 to continue to happen, maybe not every month, uh continuously 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.400 as uh major sports seasons start, like the NBA, But 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.440 I don't think this will be the first time we 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:34.000 see streaming overtake traditional TV. What do you think the differences, Kevin, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.160 between Netflix and Disney Plus. You know, we've been concerned 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.960 about Netflix losing subscriber subscribers, but Disney, according to its 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:46.000 latest earnings report, gaining subscribers. Yeah, I think the main 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.200 differences Disney's historic vault if I p which families and 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.720 really consumers globally can can identify with, and um you know, 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.600 really go back to growing up with those types of franchises. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.120 And Netflix has been pushing forward with its UH initiative 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.160 to build out more franchises for for for titles like 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:11.160 Stranger Things and um other big originals that it's rolled out. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.440 So it's trying to push the envelope in terms of 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.839 franchising titles as well, so that streamers are consumers have 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:20.520 a better idea of what they're signing up for with 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.960 the original strategy of Netflix, UM, which I think a 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.040 lot of people will have more of an idea of 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.880 what Disney Plus will offer with their originals. Now, there 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.440 was a question when Disney launched Disney Plus about whether 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.279 it would be too kids focused. I I was recently 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.760 speaking with Ross Gerber, a longtime investor in Disney. Take 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.320 a listen to what he had to say about that. 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.679 Parents like me absolutely trust Disney content with my kids. 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.840 And you know, just recently I took YouTube away from 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.200 them because YouTube shorts has become the garbage hole of 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.160 hell and I don't want my kids watching garbage whole content, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.400 and if I put them on Disney plus, there's nothing 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.200 they can watch that's bad. So I think parents really 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.679 trust the brand and and and that's starting to really 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.680 pay off for them. Lucas, do you agree with what 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.800 she said about YouTube? And also, can Disney really win 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.239 over adults? There's no question that that parents trust Disney. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.840 I think that Ross is in the minority in terms 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.440 of parent behavior. You look at the most popular channels 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.560 on YouTube and in any given week, and almost all 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.320 of them are kids channels. It's it's become a default 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.440 babysitter for for so many different families. Um that there's 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.320 not really a comparison. The other thing to keep in 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.400 mind with Disney is Disney didn't grow in the US, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.040 so it's not like they're a bunch of parents who 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.440 are signing up for Disney here. It's really overseas where 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.039 Disney has been quite strong. Um And and that challenge 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.560 that you outlined at the top is still one for Disney, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.599 which is that it's really good with parents. It's really 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.080 good with fanboys people and fan girls, people who love 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.640 Star Wars, Marvel and the like. But it has to 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.320 try to broaden its appeal to a wider group of people. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.039 It's something that's that they're working on. That's why they 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.600 started adding our rated movies. It's why you're going to 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.159 see more different types of programming on Disney Plus because 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.400 they need that to keep growing, to to keep Wall 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:11.159 Street excited about the company. Meantime, Lucas Walmart also getting 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.599 into streaming, teaming up with Paramount. Of course Amazon has 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.520 Amazon Prime Video. What exactly our Walmart customer is going 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:23.520 to get um from this tie up? And is it? 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.720 Is it smart? Well, if you are a customer of 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.760 Walmart Plus, which is if we want to make things 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.680 simple sort of like Walmart's equivalent of Amazon Prime, you 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.159 will have access to Paramount Plus, which is Paramount streaming service. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.960 And that's you know, they're trying to Walmart experiment that 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.240 with making its own video service Voodoo. It didn't work 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.599 very well. They're leaning on a you know, a trusted 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.359 and growing brand and Paramount Plus. It has the potential 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.200 to be mutually beneficial. But it works if for Paramount, 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.719 if Walmart signs up a bunch of people for Walmart Plus, uh, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.920 and it works for Walmart if the Paramount is you know, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.000 enticing enough to get more people to sign up for 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.719 a service. It's pretty early, walmut process is very small 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.919 compared to something like Amazon Prime. Meantime, some big news 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.760 and sports entertainment. You've got Paramount renewing the rights to 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.720 the Champion League foot football matches. You've also got Fox, 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.640 NBCCBS teaming up for the Big ten. I wonder, Kevin, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.760 is sports really the next and only way for these 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.600 streamers to get to the next level, a whole new level, 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.600 not an incremental level. Yeah, I think so. And and 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.600 not just sports but news as well. So, you know, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.000 a lot of these newer streamers with the wave that 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.360 started in late launching um, they came out of the 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.000 gates strong with originals like The Mandalorian from from Disney 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.560 Plus the Morning Show from Apple tv Plus. But one 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.880 of the big things that consumers still can't really do 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.880 with access to these major services like Netflix, Paramount Plus 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.640 and Apple tv Plus is access a significant amount of 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.080 live broad has from the major sports leagues like the NFL, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.040 or UM NBA. So it's not surprising that we're seeing 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:11.440 these big packages increasingly being signed, uh, you know by 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.679 these companies, and I think we're at a point where 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.520 consumers already have access to so many on demand scripted 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.680 and unscripted content, UH choices that right now, it's it's 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.400 really up to the streamers to to differentiate themselves with 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.360 live content, UH and sports being a major part of that. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.240 Apple has been dabbling with sports content, lucas. I mean, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:36.959 where are the battle lines going to be drawn? I 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.400 mean which streamers are going to be bidding for what? 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.680 And is that going to be the next wave of 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:46.120 big competition. Well, the most aggressive of the streaming services 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.720 in sports, if you take ESPN Plus out of the equation, 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.240 because that's really part of the broader ESPN empire, has 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.760 been Amazon. Amazon has Thursday Night Football coming up in 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.720 in a couple of weeks. They have a lot of 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.199 rights in Europe. They were a big player for both 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.520 the Big Ten and Champions League and just didn't get it. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.720 So they've they've shown the biggest commitment and appetite. Apple 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.640 has started to player on the edges. They have the 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.360 MLS rights, They're seen as the front runner for NFL 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.840 Sunday ticket. Netflix hasn't jumped in in a big way yet. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.480 They they offered a pretty what it sounded like kind 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.000 of a paltry sum for the Formula one rights. They 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.640 have been reluctant to spend big on live sports just yet. 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.040 You know, we'll see what comes with with the next 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.400 big rights negotiations. You have the NBA, NASCAR coming up 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.120 in a couple of years. Well, if one of those, 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.280 one of those leagues or organizations tries to carve out 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.480 some rights for streaming, that would be another big package 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.120 to go. But it's it's worth keeping in mind that, say, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.079 with something like the NFL, Amazon is the only major 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.920 streaming service that has largely exclusive rights. You know, most 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.080 of the other games are on broadcast TV. All right, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:53.440 knew potential Battleground Bloomberg, Lukashaw, Kevin Tran of Morning Consult, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:10:06.439 thank you both lots to watch. Apple has identified its 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.880 next big business, bringing advertisements to more parts of your 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:14.520 iPhone Today. Apple pushes ads in three places, the App Store, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.760 Apple News, and the Stocks app. In the News and 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:22.320 Stocks apps, Apple shows display advertisements. That means that third 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.400 party companies like card dealerships or mortgage lenders can showcase 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.000 their advertisements just like they can on a website. On 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.520 the app store, the situation is different there. Apple has 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.040 search ads. This allows developers to buy their way into 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.840 showing a pire on search results. For instance, an app 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.360 store developer can bid for the term car, racing or basketball, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.680 so their apps would surface above competing apps in the 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.800 list of results. Apples Push It Too Ads is a 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.839 little ironic given that it's a t T or app 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.240 tracking Transparency. Privacy feature limits the ability for Meta snap 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.640 and even smaller developers to generate as much revenue as 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.800 possible from advertising. That's because the feature allows users to 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.199 choose if they want their data collected and tracked across 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.920 third party apps and websites. Still, Apples hoping to expand 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.400 its own ads business and is planning to add search 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.800 ads to its Maps app. Other areas where ads could 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.560 eventually appear are on Apple Books and Apple Podcasts, along 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.440 maybe one day with an ad supported tier of Apple 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.800 TV Plus to compete with new offerings from Netflix, another 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.480 streaming video providers. I'm Mark Erman. This is power On. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.360 You can subscribe to Mark's weekly power On newsletter at 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.560 Bloomberg dot com. I want to talk more now about 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.840 Apple and ads with Benchmark partner Eric Fisheria, who has 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.680 a few opinions about the iphonemaker's privacy changes. Eric, thank 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.800 you so much for joining us. You had a tweet 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.319 that caught our I this week saying that while regulators 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:59.040 chase Amazon and meaningless tiny acquisitions from Facebook, the greatest 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:03.600 monopolist today Apple has taken a trumpy intact, pushing a 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:08.720 privacy narrative while stifling competition and favoring their own ads business. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:14.720 Why do you think Apple is the greatest monopolist today. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.880 I think that at the end of the day, Apple 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.880 has tremendous market power. And as as Mark was saying, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.800 with the A T t rolloff that they had, which 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:29.600 they've done under the cover of privacy, um they are 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.840 they are simultaneously and I think ironically pushing their own 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.319 ads business. And so while they're crippling other ads businesses, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.120 they are growing their own and benefiting and favoring their 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.440 own And and look, Facebook, Amazon, They're going to be fine. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.360 I'm not really worried about them. But they're thousands of 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:54.280 small companies, direct to consumer businesses, mom and pop shops 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.040 that sell products online and targeted via those ad networks, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.679 gaming companies that are collateral damage with the A T 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.240 t rollout, and and and so my concerns more for 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.719 those companies than it is for Facebook and Amazon. Why 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:15.559 take the trumpion tact the chumpion comparison. I think it's 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.280 the hypocrisy of saying one thing, which is, hey, this 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:24.400 is about privacy and privacy to consumers while simultaneously building 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:28.040 and growing your own out network with its own targeting capabilities. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.520 Like it's it's literally in direct conflict with each other. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.439 So what do you think the government should be doing instead? 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.600 I just think the regulators need to to think about, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:45.360 like what is actually impacting consumers and small businesses and 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.400 it with that lens choose their targets. You know, Facebook 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.160 making a meaningless acquisition and virtual reality is not that 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.040 that doesn't negatively impact consumers, it doesn't hurt the ecosystem. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.760 It's totally fine. Um, whereas you know this this type 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:06.319 of behavior, it's more complicated, it's it's more sophisticated, but 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:11.199 but it is actually impacting small businesses and consumers. Still 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.680 Meta arguing that their acquisition of this VR company within 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.440 unlimited would actually be good for competition. Do you buy that? 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.920 I do. I think that if we're in the earliest 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.440 days of virtual reality, in many ways there are no 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:32.520 established metaverse winners or goliaths. As it is today, we 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.200 don't even really know what it is and what form 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.840 it's going to take over the next five or ten years. 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.520 And so you know, small acquisitions with teams and technology 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.320 where everyone is trying to figure it out. Still that's okay, 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.520 Like I feel like that's that's healthy competition. Maybe it'll 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.320 turn into something, maybe it won't, we don't know yet. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.200 Whereas I think some of these other markets are much 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.320 much more established and um and companies have a lot 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.280 of market power. Like Apple, we're looking we're looking at 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.960 the stock plunges of of these companies here today, Apple 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.040 seems to be weathering the downturn the best. What's your 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.360 view and Benchmark's view of what's happening in the markets 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.280 right now, with of course, the benefit of you know, 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:18.240 Bill Gurley and the hindsight of you know, being in 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.800 late nineties, you know, one of the top tech analysts 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.920 on Wall Street. Look, I think that one of the 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.360 things that Benchmark has done consistently since our founding in 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:32.440 the mid nineties is invest consistently. We most of what 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.800 we do of the companies we invest in, our ten 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.120 people a less or less at the time of investment, 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.720 and so when you're doing that, you have a very 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.160 long term view where you're not going to make money 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.600 for eight or ten years if one of those small 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.600 companies grows into something big. And so over the years, 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.880 we want to be consistent pre global financial crisis, post 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.680 global financial crisis. In the last few years and even 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.040 now actually are usm at pace is almost identical. We're 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.240 making the same number of investments every year, and so 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.720 I think that consistency is really huge for the business 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.520 that we're in. Obviously, the last few years, I would 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.480 say we're characterized by FOMO in the growth markets, there 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.440 were there was so much money slashing around. There were 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.160 rounds getting done at insane prices with very little diligence. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:29.120 And so actually I think this correction broadly is healthy. UM. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.080 A lot of speculators will get wiped out, a lot 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.000 of people who are only here to make a quick buck, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.320 We'll get wiped out. And I think to be left 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.320 with a lot of people who have real visions, believers, UM, 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.760 who are willing to put everything into it. And I 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.080 think that's ultimately healthy, and so I'm actually optimistic. UM. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.720 You know, every once in a while, a little spring 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.120 cleaning or or cutting is is good. So here we 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.160 are in the middle of a correction, and you've got 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.760 a lot of controversy surrounding Andrews and Harrow. It's writing 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.640 not just a check to controversial We were founder Adam Newman, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.760 but it's biggest check ever. What do you make of that? 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.480 As as you know, we didn't participate in that round, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.040 although we were Series A investors and we work, um, 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.680 we did not participate in this this recent three or 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:26.040 fifty million dollar round. And look, I can't defend another 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.920 firms investment that's that doesn't there's no there's no value 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.119 in doing that, and I'm not inside their heads. I 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.000 would say this about Adam. We can debate a lot 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.760 of things, but he is definitely top point zero zero 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:45.200 one in terms of his ability to separate people from 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.720 their money. And I'll leave it at that. Hang on, 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.320 you can't leave it at that. What do you mean 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.639 by that? He's he is very very good at raising money, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:00.359 as he's shown time and time again, and and he's 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.320 done that again. Here would you write him another check? 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:10.840 We didn't? Yeah, all right, So what do you think 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.880 that says about Silicon Valley. Is it a broader indictment 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.440 of Silicon Valley or does it showcase a problem in 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.600 Silicon Valley or is this a very specific issue with 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.359 potentially andreas In Horwitz. I think it's a I think 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.199 these mega rounds, I don't know. I can't pretend to 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.360 know what what goes into a mega round or growth 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.640 in a growth round like this, I don't know what 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.320 the calculus is. That isn't the type of investment that 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.879 we make. You know, the vast majority of what we 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:49.560 do is, you know, five fifteen million dollar investments in 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.680 really small companies in their earliest stages, where we're making 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.879 a tenure commitment to work with them, and and so 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.920 I think that's the that's the business I know. I 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.280 think there's a lot of uh, there's been a lot 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:06.680 of changes in growth investing with soft bank and lots 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.359 of firms raising larger and larger funds, But that isn't 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.720 what we've done, so I can't speak to it all, right, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.840 Eric Vistia Partner Benchmark. I appreciate your stopping by, Eric. 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:31.800 Thank you. Thanks from the biggest producer of the nickel 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.320 used in electric car batteries, wants to be seen as 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.960 more than just a source of resources. Indonesia's president spoke 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:48.199 to Bloomberg's editor in chief John michaels Waite, what we 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.640 want is the electric cars, not the battery for Tesla. 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.240 We want to build electric cars in Indonesia from Ford 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:01.480 electric Cars, Hyundai electric cars from Japan, Toyota, Suzuki gone gone, 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.000 and we want a huge ecosystem of electric cards. Though 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.760 Indonesia has held talks on potential partnerships with Tesla over 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:22.840 several years, but there have been no agreements. Back to 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.280 the story that's had everyone talking this week in Silicon 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.159 Valley and recent Harrowitz writing its biggest check ever to 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:33.560 controversial we Work founder Adam Newman. The check million dollars, 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.400 instantly making flow Newman's new real estate startup a unicorn. Yes, 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.720 the same Newman whose we Work hit a peak valuation 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.920 of fifty billion dollars then plummeted to eight billion dollars, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.879 with lots of people losing their jobs and some investors 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.119 losing lots of money. There's been quite a few tweets 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.560 about this on both sides of the debate, including this 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.320 from Winnie founder Sarah Moscow. People always ask me why 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.760 I defend quote unquote toxic female founders and association my 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.920 and with female leaders who might have done bad things. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.640 It's because women leaders aren't held to standards. Women leaders 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.800 are held to standards. Men are not. Men get three 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.399 fifty million dollars, women get ostracized. If I don't speak up, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.840 who will? Sarah Mosca joining me now, CEO and co 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.040 founder of Winnie will get to that. But tell me, like, 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.000 why did you want to speak up about this? Yeah? 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.760 I thought you were going to mention my viral joke 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.720 tweet making fun of Adam. That was good too. It 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.680 was a little more inside baseball, but you can explain. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.359 It's so good. My comedy career is my next act. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.359 But you know, I don't think anyone was really surprised 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.680 that Adam Newman was able to raise a mega round 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:44.840 of funding. I think what really struck a chord with 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.480 a lot of founders, especially women founders, is that he 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.960 was given this second chance when so many women, under 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:57.040 represented minorities aren't even given a first chance. Um, and 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.400 you know what other big Bowl ideas and founders could 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.920 we uncover if we invested in people besides white men? 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.200 You know, I've spoken to a lot of people this week, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:09.720 and a lot of people who didn't want to speak 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.679 publicly about this, you know, don't want to say anything 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.439 negative about Andrews and Horowitz. Why do you Why do 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.720 you think people won't talk about it. I don't think 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.679 this is unique to andreasent Horowitz. I think in venture 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.800 capital as a whole, there's been a really big emphasis on, 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.719 you know, sort of growth at all costs and uh, 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.240 you know, burning lots of cash on your way to 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.760 the top. And I actually I am pretty optimistic because 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.399 I think that is really changing, and I think that 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.320 will serve women founders really well. Women get just two 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.119 percent of the venture capital and so we have always 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.119 had to operate, you know, in a profitable way or 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.879 on the paths of profitability. Um, and now that is 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.560 finally getting some respect. It's not just growth and burning 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.600 lots of cash. It's actually growth that's sustainable, and that's 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.199 what we've always done it, Whinnie, and I think lot 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:02.600 of women founders have always done. I think part of 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:04.880 the risk is, you know, if you come forward, would 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.440 you ever get a check from Entrees and Horowitz, which 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.560 is you know, one of the most prestigious venture capital 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.440 firms in Silicon Valley. Why take that risk? Uh, I 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.840 might never get funding from them. I I think, you 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.359 know either way, like this is not anything having to 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:25.440 do with just Andrews and Horwit's. I think a lot 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:27.680 of firms across the board. I mean this is an 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:32.359 industry wide uh number that two percent of the venture 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.520 capital goes to women founders, and even less if you 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:39.199 look at you know, underrepresented women founders. UM. So I 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:40.760 don't think this is unique to them. I think this 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.160 is just a great example and time to say, like, hey, 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.240 what about all the women who weren't given second chances 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:52.120 after they made a big bet that didn't work out? Um, 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:54.960 and many that never gone a first chance, and many 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:57.239 that didn't even get a first chance. And I think 0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:59.800 now is actually a really good time to talk about 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.560 it because there is this greater emphasis aside from this case, 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:09.320 a much greater emphasis on profitability and you know, sustainable growth. 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:11.520 You and I talked when you were launching Whenny. What 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.119 has your experience been like raising money not just as 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.560 a female founder, but a founder raising money for a 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:21.920