1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, Welcome 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: back to the show. What's your Name? My name is Matt, 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: my name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined, 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. This 10 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: is an episode that we've received numerous requests for, and 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Matt if I if I recall correctly, and at least 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: the two of us, we were both surprised that we 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: had not done this yet. Is that is that accurate? Yeah, 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: We're having many echoes of videos such as the Project Artichoke, 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: several parts series that we made in the past, and 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: we've mentioned mk ultras so many times on this show 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: just as a throwaway mention of mind to control. Whenever 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: we bring something even closely related that or kind of 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: related to mind control, we always joke I'm gultra, right right, 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: but we've never put it all in one thing. So 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: here it is m kaultra one oh one. For a 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: lot of us listening today, It's true that there has 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: been a war going on somewhere on the planet for 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: every moment of your life. Not all wars are created equal, 25 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: of course, Some are fought out in the open, massive 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: waves of soldiers crashing against one another in the blood 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: and the dirt. Others, of course, are fought through proxies, 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: where it's where foreign powers turn a third nation or 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: country into a battleground and mercenaries disguised as student activists 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: or freedom fighters kill one another while the people who 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: live there look on helplessly. Others, of course, are fought 32 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: surreptitiously in the shadows, kind of a spy versus spy thing. 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: And if you were born after World War Two, that 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: means you were live during what we call the Cold War, 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: this long running ideological hegemonic conflict between the USSR and 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: the West. Most mainstream thought will tell us that this 37 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: Cold War ended with the fall of the Soviet Union, 38 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: although some people will quietly assure you this war continues 39 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: today and a lot of those people under some people 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: are Russian pointing that out, yeah, and or just people 41 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: who work in the state Department and perhaps those as well. Yeah, 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: so intelligence agencies on both sides of the Cold War 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: tried to get any sort of edge they could better technology, 44 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: better access to resources, better propaganda displays like getting into space, 45 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: landing on the moon, or I was thinking about digging 46 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: a giant hole and going as far as you can 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 1: into the Earth, just as a fun thing to say, Yeah, 48 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: we dug the biggest hole. What's up? I know, I 49 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: know Russia has done that. Yes, that's true. That is 50 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: a true story. There's another aspect that we don't talk 51 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: about as much, perhaps as we should, which is gaining 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: better control over people, regardless of where they live or 53 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: what they do. In today's episode, as as you said, 54 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 1: is ultimately about that last idea, how do you best 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: control people? The CIA pursued this question through a series 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: of programs collectively known today as m k Ultra. Here 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: are the facts. Actually, no, we have to skip it 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: for this one. Here's where it gets crazy straight to crazy. 59 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah dang, so, here here are the two days you 60 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: need to know. But then there's a third one and 61 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: it sounds complicated, but it just means from at least 62 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: nine to nineteen sixty four. Officially, wrapping all the way 63 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: up in nineteen seventy three, the CIA used various front 64 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: companies and the like to conduct at it at times 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: illegal experiments on unwitting human subjects. And this included exposure 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: of things like illegal drugs, LSD, other chemicals, and a 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: large dollop of what we would consider to be social manipulation. 68 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely in the aims of these programs all varied and 69 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: they ran the gamut, but they also shared a common 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: theme to explore previously unexploited ways of influencing human behavior. 71 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: Can we actually brainwash someone? Can we genuinely hypnotize someone? 72 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: Can we make them tell the truth? Or can we 73 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: implant some series of future actions in their mind? False memories? 74 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: Uh Manchurian candidate, I was going to say, I didn't 75 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: want to say it. Oh did I spoil it? It's okay, 76 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about it. Trigger word, assassins, ladies in 77 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: polka dot dresses. There we go, inception style dream exploration. 78 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: And for years and years and years and years and years, 79 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: rumors about this kind of nefarious activity floated around in 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: the counterculture of America. The mainstream largely dismissed it until 81 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: the seventies when a New York Times journalist named Seymour 82 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: her who will be familiar to longtime listeners of Stuff 83 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know, published a story in 84 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four detailing how the CIA conducted non consensual 85 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: drug experiments and illegal spine operations domestically on US citizens. 86 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: Would later come to find that Canadians were victimized as well. Uh, 87 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: the the spook squad flew out of the country to 88 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: experiment on some folks they consider representative of a communist block. 89 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: So this allegation hits in the nineteen seventies, as we said, 90 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: with the New York Times publishing it. But the problem 91 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: here is that this is a newer chapter in a 92 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: very long story. When we talk about truth serums and 93 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: the attempts to discover one, we go all the way 94 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: back to nineteen sixteen, right, oh yeah, way way way back, 95 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: and that's when the that's the first time that scope 96 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: mean is seen to be like having an effect on 97 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: a human and ultimately scope of me is something that's 98 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: used to I guess as a truth serum, is used 99 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: as a true truth serum. But back in nineteen sixteen 100 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: is when it is first seen. Then you can jump 101 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: all the way to nineteen thirty one when you see 102 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: um sodium pentethal, which is the thing we've discussed before 103 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: the official truth serum, but never actually tried. Yeah, yeah, 104 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: that we know of, right, Oh, that I know of. Uh. 105 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: And then since ninety two on the US government has 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: been interested in this kind of stuff, right, especially originally 107 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: under General William Wild Bill Donovan. So this this stuff 108 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: has occurred, it's just most people didn't know about it 109 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: to one degree or another. What makes complete sense anytime 110 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: you are at war and you've got an enemy combatant 111 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: and you if you could inject something into that combatant 112 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: and then get the coordinates of where the rest of 113 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: his battalion is or something, I mean done, end of story. 114 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: You're gonna do that absolutely. And in his article, Hirsch 115 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: also talks about how they managed to bring these details 116 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: about him k Ultra to light. It looks legit. His 117 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: sources are right, He's walked through the process. You can 118 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: see chain of custody for all the stuff he found, 119 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: and then primarily he found it through a government mistake. 120 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: This was never meant to be discovered, but the discovery 121 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: resulted in calls for an investigation. Eventually, even Congress paid attention, 122 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: which is unusual for Congress. They held a hearing on 123 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: this in the famous Church Committee, and they had Senate hearings, Uh, 124 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: just a little bit later, that's right. The later hearings 125 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: only occurred after a fo I Freedom of Information Act 126 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: request uncovered a cash of twenty thousand documents that were 127 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: related to Project m k Ultra. And according to that report, 128 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: mk Ultra was meant to develop, to the words of 129 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: the report, developed a capability in the covert use of 130 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: by iological and chemical materials. Pretty vague, um doesn't really 131 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: tell you what they were going forward covert secret use 132 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: of some biological or chemical materials, but to what end um, 133 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: But what they're referring to was mind control efforts, and 134 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: they started in earnest In under the name of Project Bluebird. 135 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: I've been talked about pretty extensively on the show. More 136 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: back on the video days. I would say, right, yeah, yeah, 137 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: we I think we mentioned Bluebird when we made the 138 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: Arctic Joke videos. And there are a whole bunch of 139 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: those code names that we can get into maybe a 140 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: little later, But Bluebird was a a big one, and 141 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: Bluebird was reactionary, right. Yeah, it was in reaction to 142 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: the quote bizarre conduct of a cardinal by the name 143 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: of men Zenti at his trial in Budapest when he 144 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: confessed to treason. He clearly in their in their minds, 145 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: he clearly appeared to have had brainwashing techniques applied to him. 146 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: He confessed the stuff he Demoli shriably did not and 147 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: could not have done. He claimed that he was going 148 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: to topple this one regime to bring in I guess capitalism, 149 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: and then he was going to supplant the United States 150 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: after it was a one world government and become the 151 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: supreme authority of the country himself. It was very, very strange, 152 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: but yeah, they they thought they have done something to 153 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: this guy's mind, and we need to be able to well, 154 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: the way they phrases, we need to be able to 155 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: stop it, or we need to know what they're doing. 156 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: What they really meant is we need to have that capability. 157 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: So they started contemplating behavior control for offensive purposes. They 158 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: were at least partially motivated by fear that China and 159 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union had already made significant breakthroughs in this field. 160 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: I was either probably terrified of that yeah. And here's 161 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: the thing. Although it sounds like a rationalization at this point, 162 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: the c I A History vindicated them. They were they 163 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: were correct. The Soviet Union had been conducting wholly independent 164 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: research along the same lines, with a lot of extra 165 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: parapsychological stuff thrown in, and they had a decades long 166 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: jump on Uncle Sam. All in all, as far as 167 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: we know, they spend at least a billion dollars. It's 168 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: still even more enigmatic than mk ulture. We don't know 169 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: when it ended, but we know they called it psychotronics. 170 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: Psychotronics that's a cool name, and as a record store 171 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: in my hometown and called Psychotronic Records. Whoa Soviet front, Dude, 172 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: watch it's very small. I don't know where they would hid. 173 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: Maybe it's subterrane the base always the basement with Russians. Well, 174 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: that's a that is a great video. A couple of 175 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: videos we've made and uh, I think an episode we 176 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: did a full episode on that didn't the psychotronics all 177 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: if not, it's coming soon and that was fascinating because 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: it's looking into everything, right. It was it was like Stargate, 179 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: Like Project Stargate was almost to the United States where 180 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: we're looking at psychic soldiers and all that stuff outside 181 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: of just truth serums and LSD and effects of the mind, 182 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: right right. It's interesting because in the US these were 183 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: more compartmentalized. Um like when Nolan I interviewed Russell Target 184 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: earlier and he he was talking a little bit about 185 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: Project Stargate that was not related to im K culture. 186 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: It's an important difference in ka Ultra is how can 187 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: we control the mind? And and uh it Stargate is 188 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: more about what we would consider psychic or superpowers. They 189 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: also said that we have to understand these techniques because 190 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: we need to defend ourselves against people who might not 191 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: be as restrained in the use of these tactics as 192 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: we are. So we're learning how to do evil stuff 193 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: because we're very good boys. That's that's sort of the logic. 194 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I I get it, but you can see 195 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: where it's I don't want to say disingenuous, but convenient. Sure, 196 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: like definitely see that. So that's what they describe. Where's 197 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: the line? Why? Why is this? You know who cares? Well? Yeah? 198 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: But who what's too far? Right? I mean, if you're 199 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: already doing this stuff, where at what point do you 200 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: say Okay, we shouldn't do that anymore. Um, let's look 201 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: at that right after a quick word from our sponsor. 202 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good question. There's nothing wrong with 203 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: secret government projects legally speaking, as we listen to this episode, 204 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: no matter where you're listening, where you're located, or where 205 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: what you can sider your home country, we can virtually 206 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: guarantee you that they are up to something and it 207 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: is occurring in secret because it's meant to protect the government, 208 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: the employees of the government, and citizens of the country. 209 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: You know, let me call it national secrecy. The problem 210 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: here is that despite that that theory and practice, secrecy 211 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: is often used to hide acts that would be crimes 212 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: if anybody in the country committed them. The CIA was 213 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: doing stuff that we give people, uh life in prison 214 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: with no parole, Oh for sure. I mean let's like, 215 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: let's say, for instance, that we catch a wild hair 216 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: and we go around sneaking drugs in people's food here 217 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: in pont City Market. If we got caught, we'd go 218 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: to court. Those rules are just different when it comes 219 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: to government sanctioned acts. We would go to court and 220 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: probably just go straight to jail, straight to hail. Yeah, 221 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: and and well again, and we're kind of like joking 222 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: about it in a way, but this is exactly what 223 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: the Central Intelligence Agency did. No, oh, absolutely, they put 224 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: stuff in people, and they those people had no idea. 225 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Only two years after the program was officially approved, the 226 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: project was already having just serious issues with a thing 227 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: we've mentioned here before that happens in a lot of 228 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: big projects with a lot of money, even here at 229 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: our job, especially here at our job, Mission creep, oh, 230 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: mission creep, where just that one little thing that you're 231 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing ends up turning into all these 232 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: other things and spreading all the way out to the 233 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 1: edges of the desk. So the scope of experimentation expanded, 234 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: and it was they were trying to find, well, let's 235 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: just let's call this discovery of the following materials and methods, 236 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: including those which will promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol. 237 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: That sounds nice, So make you more drunk, more quickly, 238 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: more severely. Yeah, that's nice, Which will render the induction 239 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness. Okay, I 240 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,479 Speaker 1: can see why you're going to use that in some interrogation, 241 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: which will enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, 242 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: torture and coercion during interrogation, and so called brainwashing. Oh, 243 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: so privation is what the what the hell is that? 244 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: We just we we talked about this a little bit 245 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: off air. So privation is the act of depriving people 246 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: of basic human necessities food, clothing, water, shelter, air, I guess, 247 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: but not for too long. And um, you pointed out 248 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: all that that's pretty weird language wise, linguistically, that's weird. Well, well, 249 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: I said it is. So is privation like the opposite 250 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: of deprivation, which would be extremely to give people stuff? 251 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: But no, no, it is. How did you put it then? 252 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: What I would? It's just it's to deny them, to 253 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: deprive the Yeah, I got you. This is just it's 254 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: got really complicated. Man, this isn't even the rabbit hole 255 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: for today. Alien here we are. I'm feeling privd of 256 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: a direction, so let's keep doing this. They're also looking 257 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: for that which will produce amnesia for events proceeding and 258 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: during their use, So a drug or some their substance 259 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: that would do that. Uh, that which will produce shock 260 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: and confusion for extended periods of time and capable of 261 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: surreptitious use. Wow, this sounds like just the best stuff 262 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: ever that which will produce physical disablement such as paralysis 263 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: of the legs, acute anemia, etcetera. Essentially prescribed or they're 264 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: describing roal hypnol or um some other drug with amnesia. Uh. 265 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: And then let's see according to the Hearing Report, eighty 266 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: six universities or institutions were involved. Eighties six universities or 267 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: institutions and one hundred and eighty five non government researchers 268 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: and assistance worked on these these projects. What and then 269 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: we have another quote here. It says physicians, toxicologists and 270 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: other specialists and mental and narcotics. Mental and narcotics were 271 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: lured into mk ULTRA through the provision of grants that 272 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: were made under ostensible research foundation auspices, thereby concealing the 273 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: CIA's interest from the specialists institution. So what are we 274 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: saying here. It's what we said at the top. They're 275 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: concealing that they are actually doing this. That is the 276 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: c i A with their tentacles going into these other 277 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: institutions essentially getting money and researching stuff that they're going 278 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: to use in the field. Right, But they don't think 279 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: they're working for the CIA. They think they're working for, 280 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: like the American Foundation of totally legitimate benevolence. Oh, the 281 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: you mean the specialists and the Toxic College, other people 282 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: who are working with the drugs and the methods. They 283 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: don't know exactly, So it's the CIA. Like again, it's 284 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: like the Black Tar or the Black Goo and X files. 285 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: It's just like seeping in finding its way and infecting 286 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: people without knowing it. The Pink Slime and Ghostbusters too, 287 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: very similar. A voice for both good or sen she goo. 288 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: So for members of Congress, this was just s op 289 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: standard operating procedures. CIA had not inherently crossed the line 290 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: by conducting these experiments in secret by lying to the 291 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: scientists or the researchers. Instead, they crossed the line when 292 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 1: they didn't inform volunteers. This was also, you know, this 293 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: is taking place right after Watergate, so distrust of the 294 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: government is at an even higher mainstream level than before. 295 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: So in his opening remarks during the hearing, Senator Edward 296 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: Kennedy described mk ultra as on extends of tasting of 297 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: experimentation program which included Covart drug tests, and on on 298 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: wedding citizen's at all social levels, high and law, Native 299 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: Americans and foreign Several of these tests include the administration 300 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: of the last day to unwdding subjects on social situations. 301 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: What I did there, you guys, was Fred Gwen from 302 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: pet Cemetery. That's That's the closest thing Barry her. Oh 303 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: did you guys? In the trailer for the new one, 304 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: they don't say the soil is sour anymore. They say 305 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: the soil is bad. Yeah, was like, oh, I heard 306 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: it's really good, but it's quite good, all right. So 307 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: what he means by this and that? Off off air, 308 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: Matt Night did try me a little bit. I don't know. 309 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: As long as you didn't feel bullied, we were. It 310 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: was just a great voice. I didn't feel bullied at all. 311 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: I never feel bullied by you guys. Awesome. I always 312 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: feel big up good guys. I mean, I think you're 313 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: the new Kennedy for for the show. But but he's 314 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: making a good point. Despite despite our compatriots mallifluous and 315 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: beautiful re enactment, there, Kennedy was saying stuff that that 316 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: had substance and presented a clear and present ethical danger. 317 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: There were not medical professionals around for a lot of 318 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: this dosing. The CIA agents doing this and their proxies 319 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: were not doctors. Often at least one person went to 320 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: the hospital, probably more. Two people definitely died, a fellow 321 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: named Frank Olsen who was involved as a non civilian, 322 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: and Harold Blower. But the testing continued, and when we 323 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: say two people died, we mean at least two people. 324 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: We really don't know how many deaths or injuries can 325 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: be attributed to this program, because it's also hard to 326 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: really tell how long the program had been going on 327 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: outside of the official numbers, and how long it continued, 328 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: right right, Just the stuff we know, again is from 329 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: that Freedom of Information Act. Will will explore this in 330 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: a second. But let's let's walk through what they were 331 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: actually doing with them k Ultra. They weren't in many ways. 332 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: It was as dirty as the Tuskegee experiments. Uh, some 333 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: people may see even a little worse. They went to 334 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: twelve hospitals that we know of, and testing was testing 335 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: was conducted on patients who had various forms of terminal cancer. 336 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: They were they were not coming back. It was time 337 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: to make your peace, not time to pursue other options 338 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: of treatment. And this meant that we can we can 339 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: assume safely that whatever those experiments the cancer patients were 340 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: part of we're doing to the human body, it was 341 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: going to have long term detrimental, possibly fatal effects. And 342 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: the deal was simple. It was the devil's bargain, the 343 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: CIA's proxies. You know, um doctor uh every man good 344 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: name comes in from the Society of regular business and says, 345 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: I will pay the medical bills for these terminal cancer patients. 346 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: And all we have to do, you know, in in 347 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: addition to all the top notch medicines were already exposing 348 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: them to, will exp them to this other experimental medicine, 349 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: and then we'll close the doors and turn off the 350 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: lights and just see what happens. Right, And they may 351 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: have glowed because we're typing radiation exposure for some of 352 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,479 Speaker 1: the terminal patients, but yeah, like any something that was 353 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: probably going to kill them harder or faster than the cancer. 354 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: And in the and they conducted experiments and prisons as well, 355 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: and this one, for some reason bothers me even more so. 356 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: In the prisons, the mentally ill, specifically described as criminal 357 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: sexual psychopaths, were also subjected to experiments, they are considered expendable. 358 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: I guess in somewhere maybe there was there was a 359 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: benefit to their mental state, like they were trying to 360 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: like trigger them even further to break. It's a good question. Yeah, 361 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: I don't know. Um So, while prisons were informed of 362 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: the broad strokes of one experiment or another or another, 363 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: and while they some of you know, they did volunteer. Uh, 364 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: they did so when they were promised access to their 365 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: addictive drug of choice, which, as we know from even 366 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: just watching films, you know, a junkie will do just 367 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: buy anything for their fix. Right. Is it consent if 368 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: a person who is in the depths of heroin or 369 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: opioid withdrawal is offered opium or heroin? Like are they 370 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: saying yes, I don't know, So it's user is said 371 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: at the very least. Yeah, absolutely, and manipulative and borderline. 372 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: It's it's not not borderline definitely on ethical that's breaking. Yeah, 373 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: in any kind of controlled medical tests or any kind 374 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: of clinical trial, that would you know, you can't that 375 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: that throws your data out the window. That's not that one, right, 376 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: That's why you don't see more those situations in studies 377 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: on you know, but the fad diets or social media usage. 378 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: So so let's get to uh, let's get to some 379 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: of the things that we put in place after World 380 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: War Two. Right, the Cold War is not counted as 381 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: a war, so these things are not counted as war crimes. However, 382 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: they clearly violate the Nuremberg Code, which the entire imperfect 383 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: world approves of. As a result of the findings, President 384 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: Ford and then President Carter and then President Reagan all 385 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: issued orders banning all future human experimentation without consent by 386 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: government agencies and even kicked back a little bit of 387 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of make it Right money to the 388 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: people that were inarguably harmed by the test. Just the 389 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: people that were inarguably demonstrably harmed. A lot of people 390 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: fell through the cracks. This sounds like it could be 391 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: an expose in the halls of Congress, right. Just the 392 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: wheels of justice grind slow but exceedingly fine, a very 393 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: go team moment right way of your flags. Uh, feel 394 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: proud to be an American. But the problem is that 395 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: this only scratches the surface. That's why this ultra one 396 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: oh one you see before that article comes out in 397 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: the New York Times and years before the congressional hearings, 398 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: the CIA has an internal purge in three when you 399 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: Matt earlier said, it officially wrapped up. The CIA director 400 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: at the time, Richard Helms, ordered all of the documents 401 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: related to anything associated with any mk ultra program to 402 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: be destroyed. This means even today, we still do not 403 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: know everything that happened, and the hints that we get, 404 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: the little tantalizing scraps are even more disturbing. It's a 405 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: sinking shame and we're gonna learn about it right after 406 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy, kip, 407 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: double crazy, double crazy. We we know that there were 408 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: other experiments, we don't know how many, and we don't 409 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: know the details of all of them. But here's just 410 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: a whitman sampler of the sort of stuff that they involved. Electroshock, 411 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: harassment techniques for quote offensive use, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, 412 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: has assassination delivery systems. This begins to get wrapped up 413 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: in because these committees were also looking at stuff like 414 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: the CIA attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro. Oh yeah, can 415 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: we talk about what you said? Harassment techniques for offensive 416 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: use really fast. Yeah, a lot of times, or maybe 417 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: you've heard of this before, something called gang stalking or 418 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: some of these other things. I can imagine that's where 419 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: a lot of those feelings arise, or the beliefs that 420 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: something like that is happening to you, just from that 421 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: one little thing, the the concept that the CIA was 422 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: truly researching at one point harassment techniques for offensive use. 423 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: They really were doing it. No, we know the gang 424 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: stalking can sometimes sound a little bit tinfoil hattie for people, 425 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: but they they were purposely doing it, and the idea 426 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: is to push someone further and further into a paranoid state. Yes, 427 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: and it works alright. So scientists were also greenlit for 428 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: research involving radiation and paramilitary devices and materials. Isn't that 429 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: nice looking into radiation? Yeah, that's good. And going back 430 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: to your point in all that you said about the 431 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: the vague language here paramilitary devices and materials. M hmm, 432 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: that's pretty It could be anything. Yeah, it could be 433 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: those crazy Air Force coffee mugs that are so expensive. 434 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: Have you heard about these? That was apparently a line 435 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: item in the Air Force budget for like a hundreds 436 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars for these like high tech coffee 437 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: mugs that had built in warmers, and apparently they're very fragile, 438 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: so they had to replace them. A bunch people would 439 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: drop them on the planes and they would just shatter 440 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: and then so that, you know, waste not, want not 441 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam boy. It's like that old sorry about the 442 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: three hammer. Right. So what we do know is that 443 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: at least one hundred and forty nine of the m 444 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: K Ultra subprojects had some kind of connection with research 445 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: into behavioral modification, drug acquisition and testing or administering drugs 446 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: on the sly yeah for for for all kinds of things, 447 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: including what you said before again been assassination delivery systems. 448 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Assassination delivery a gun that would 449 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: be one or you know some some type of yeah, 450 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: like you combine them. But I love the I love 451 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: the the banality of that, you know what I mean? Absolutely, 452 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: they do have some poetic language in here, though. We 453 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: have lists of different projects. They had six projects that 454 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: were intentionally meant to test unwitting subjects, eight with hypnosis. 455 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: Two of those used drugs, seven that just used drugs. 456 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: Four here's the poetry that used the quote Magician's art 457 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: the magician's arm art art, and specifically in that one, 458 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: it's about finding a way to get probably a chemical 459 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: into someone's drink, or into someone's food, or into someone's 460 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: body in a way that they don't know. Right, this 461 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: is dangerous through a magician's art, through a magician's off 462 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: close magic. Ye, you just got darted totally, which you know, 463 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: just from the use of that phrase. I don't mean 464 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: that belittle the horrible things that happened, but just from 465 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: the use of that phrase, doesn't it sound like one 466 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: of the CIA people really, which is just a repressed magician. Yeah, 467 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: fan of magic. That's right. They wouldn't let him in 468 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: the magic Castle. What is it called the Magician's Castle? 469 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: The magic Castle? The magic I have yet to go myself. 470 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: I have to be in. I did. There's there's there 471 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: there's a loophole where you can go and get a 472 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: commemorative photo or something like that, like one one day. Yeah, 473 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: it's like a sort of like open house at at 474 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: at elementary school. You know. Lauren Vogelbaum went, she had 475 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: an end, Yeah, with some kind of fancy actor. I 476 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: don't trust stage magicians. It's one of my few prejudices well, 477 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: do you recall that our buddy Russell Targ had fascination 478 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: with stage magic, which I found very interesting considering that 479 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, attribute some of the 480 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: techniques of stage magicians to cold reading and is to 481 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: fake being psychic. I'm not. I don't think that's what 482 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: Targ is about, but I do think it's interesting that 483 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: he his mind kind of started going down that path 484 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: through a false way and then ultimately found its way 485 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: to a more true way what he perceives what he 486 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: perceives to be as a true way. It's it's interesting. 487 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: That's a derail too much, But I you know, how 488 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: you can be intellectually aware of something but then a 489 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: emotionally degrees opposed to it or vice versa. Right, Like, 490 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: intellectually I understand that stage magicians are normal human beings 491 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: who get up and have jobs and they're not evil 492 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: or you know, like I have all these stereotypes about them. Emotionally, 493 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: I can't get over it. Yeah, I feel monstrous about it, 494 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,239 Speaker 1: and I apologize to any stage magicians, Uh listening to 495 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: the show, Please don't send me videos of your stuff. 496 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So you understand like the whole the 497 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: whole category everything about it. I don't know why you 498 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: whenever they like David Copperfield as a kid, I'm okay 499 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: with mentalists, you know, like Darren Brown. For some reason, 500 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: it's okay. And just like pull out the cards and 501 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: they make me tap on stuff. It's something must have 502 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: happened to me. You don't like people to ask you 503 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: to do stuff either, Ben, who likes people to ask you? 504 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: If it's all in the way you ask, it's all 505 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: the way you ask, that's true. I agree. But you know, 506 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: if if I just walked up to when I said, Ben, 507 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: tap on this deck of cards with two fingers, you 508 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: would probably punch me. I would. I would punch you 509 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: because now I would know where's coming from. You look 510 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: at me. Askance though, I'll tell you that yes, it 511 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: would be would be very very distrusting in the very 512 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: least you touch it with three fingers. It would be 513 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: like if it would be like if somebody if if 514 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: mad Orrai came up to you and we're like, hey man, 515 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: open this bag and we had hidden a birden there, 516 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: like that's not cool. If you guys could see me 517 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: out there in podcast, my eyes just went wide, like 518 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: a couple of saucers. I have nightmares sometimes that there's 519 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: a bird under my covers. We will never do that, thanks, guys. 520 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to freak you out. Did a bird 521 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: hurt me? Is that what you're gonna ask? Don't look 522 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: under the desk right now? Okay, that's this is being 523 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: This is mean, and I'm sorry your face was so 524 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: genuine and scared that I'm sorry. I feel like the 525 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: c I A right, Okay, it's okay, man, And that's 526 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: what we just did. We did a thought experiment to 527 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: let you know how the c I must feel after 528 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: being taken to task for a lot of this stuff, 529 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 1: and how quickly it got out of control because they 530 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: were also dosing one another at some point. It was 531 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: just for frenzies, like Smitty, he's tripping balls? What is 532 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: your stage magic? Now? Oh wait, he's going outside on 533 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: the balcony. Oh that's interesting. Ones that does that? Of 534 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: course happened, right, yes, yes, Frank Olsen specifically, he was 535 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: a biochemist at a lab that was conducting those LSD 536 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: experiments for the government. And the story is still very 537 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: murky today. I think it's mentioned in the Netflix series Wormwood. So, 538 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: according to uncle sam Ulsen, knowingly ingested LSD and then 539 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: because it affected him in an adverse way, he eventually 540 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: took his own life by jumping from his hotel room 541 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: on the thirteenth floor of a New York City hotel, 542 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: and you know, he died. However, his family and numerous 543 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: people don't buy the story. They say that he was 544 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: dosed without his consent uh, and that he would never 545 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: have committed suicide, that he did not have nascent suicidal tendencies. 546 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: They say he was murdered because he knew too much. 547 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: The US government gave them a settlement of seventy thousand 548 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: dollars in nineteen seventy five. But yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, 549 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: his body's exhumed and the coroner sees head injuries and 550 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: he says, wait, Olsen was knocked unconscious before his death. 551 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: How do you figure that out that long afterwards after 552 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: you fell from a really high height. I don't know. 553 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: I totally hear you. That is crazy, though, right, yes, yeah, 554 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: it's it's strange and questions remain. And it's also I 555 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: hate to say, man, but it's extremely possible that he 556 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: was killed and was a cover up because ultra is 557 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: the top above top secret level classification for projects at 558 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: this time. And this leads us to, you know, the 559 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: big question. Surely one day there's gonna be justice. Not 560 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: so fast. Yeah, a lot of the sciencests involved honestly 561 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: had no idea what they were actually doing. That they 562 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: were working for the CIA. They knew they were administering something, 563 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,959 Speaker 1: they knew they were maybe doing it a little surreptitiously, 564 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: but they didn't understand that it was this kind of 565 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: this kind of thing, right, And they, along with the 566 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: CIA assets, are legally immune at this point from consequences 567 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: of their actions. Can you believe that that's that's true? Seriously? Yep, 568 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: they're immune. And and here's why. There are two lawsuits 569 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: related to mk Ultra that made it as far as 570 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: the freaking Supreme Court, and the court found in favor 571 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: of the government twice. Both times. Yeah, the court held 572 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: in a case called CIA versus Sims that the names 573 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: of institutions and researchers who participated in Project in k 574 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: Ultra were exempt from revelation under the Freedom of Information 575 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: Act because the CIA needed to protect its intelligence sources. Again, 576 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: national security. Just throw that up anywhere and you're good 577 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: to go. And then also here's a case called United 578 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: States versus Stanley, and the court held that this serviceman 579 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: someone he was working with them who had volunteered for 580 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: a chemical weapons experiment. Let's call it that a chemical 581 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: weapons experiment. This guy was actually tested with LSD. And 582 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: this guy was barred from bringing a claim under the 583 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: this thing called the Federal Tort Claims Act. And uh, 584 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: what has a tourt been? A tort is essentially when 585 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: someone does something bad to you, a bad action. So 586 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: Towart law is the area of law that protects people 587 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: from bad acts of others. Historically speaking, citizens in the 588 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: US cannot sue states because of the concept of sovereign unity. 589 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: Can't just sue this state because there are very specific 590 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: concepts of constraints or situations where you can do that. 591 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: And the f t c A or Federal Tort Claims 592 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: Act federal statute that allows private parties to sue the 593 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: US in a federal court for most of these torque 594 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: cases committed by people acting on behalf of the US. 595 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: It's a little bit illegalis but but that's it. He um, 596 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: he was Stanley was attempting to attempting to sue, but 597 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: it was kicked out because it was not because he 598 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: was he was not allowed to use the Federal Tort 599 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: Claims Act. Okay, that makes sense. National security, national security, 600 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: national security twice eight seven. So that's almost where we 601 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: are now today. MK Ultra is firmly enshrined in the 602 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: world of conspiracy lore, their fictional programs like Wormwood. There 603 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: are documentaries, There are books ranging from fiction inspired by 604 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: this to maybe more fringe research that the authors will 605 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: tell you it is true, dull sorts of films that 606 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: explore aspects of the program or use it as a 607 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: jumping off point for speculation. But like any piece of folklore, 608 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: and I would argue there's a lot of folklore around 609 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: him Cultra, there is an arguable grain of truth inside 610 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: the story, and that leaves us with some burning, disturbing questions. First, 611 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: what happened? That's the easiest question to answer. We will 612 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: not know, we cannot know, we will never know, we 613 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: refuse to know. We shut our eyes in the nearest 614 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: to the truth. Well, not that the first. We just can't. 615 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: We can't know because it's going to be sealed. Because 616 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: they destroyed thousands and thousands of things and When I 617 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: say sealed, I mean in a tomb essentially of its 618 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: own burnt up carbon. Yeah, we're in We're in deathbed 619 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: confession territory. That's where that's that those will be the 620 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: best sources of this second question in a little depressing 621 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: Did any of this stuff actually work? Yeah, some of it, 622 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: some of it obviously, most of it didn't. Some of 623 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: it did, some of it did, right. Yeah, And again 624 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: we're not really sure what we'll find unless some some 625 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: of those experiments that they were doing are just redone 626 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: a lot um. But I guess, I guess the big 627 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: thing is that they never at least two our understanding, 628 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: they never got a true truth serum as close as 629 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: scope I mean, and some of these other things can 630 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: get you. There's no true injectable that we know. Now. 631 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: I'll tell you everything. My fears, my social security. One 632 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: of my feet is larger than the other. It makes 633 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: me uncomfortable. I I'm Edward Kennedy, and uh, some of 634 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: the biggest drugs that I've been doing lately are the 635 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: L S d L. You also kind of got a 636 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: little Peter Griffin, I got, I got a Peter to Jesus. 637 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: So it's It's true they ever found that silver bullet 638 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: truth serum. So far as we know, the data they 639 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: got was of limited use if you think about it, 640 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: because they didn't have solid methodology and a lot of 641 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: these experiments, they did not have ideal monitoring conditions, and 642 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: at some point they just uh had a Lord of 643 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: the Flyes situation, you know what I mean. Big Think 644 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: has a great quote on this. They argue that the 645 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: program may ultimately have been counterproductive. They say mk Ultra 646 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: might have been counterproductive because the counterculture was given access 647 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: to LSD through these experiments. That's true, and they proceeded 648 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: to run in the opposite direction with it. John Lennon 649 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: went so far as to mock the CIA in an interview, 650 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: noting they must always remember to thank the CIA and 651 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: the Army for LSD. That's what people forget. Oh my god, 652 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: it's the young Michael Kine. I'm sorry. They invented a 653 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: state to control people, and what they did would give 654 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: us freedom. Wow. Okay, all right, Lennon, John Lennon, I mean, 655 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: let's that's Michael King. Thanks. But yeah, he's making a 656 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: good point, right, Yeah, they gave us LSD, but they 657 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: didn't give us what what did What didn't they give us? 658 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: They didn't give us shrooms? True? They they did? I 659 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I don't know. They didn't. They didn't 660 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: disclose a lot of the findings. And that's that's the 661 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: scariest question. Most importantly, what's happening now? You have to 662 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: ask yourself listening to this. Would a government genuinely completely 663 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: stop this sort of research if an aspect of it worked. 664 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: Has there at any point, and and forget forget the 665 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: relatively young experiment known as the United States, In the 666 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: course of human civilization, has there been something that was 667 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: an amazing technique or technology that gave one empire the 668 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: edge over the others that they stopped for sueing and 669 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: not being rhetorical? I would love to hear of one example. Yeah, 670 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: send us your examples if you've got them, please. You 671 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter. You can find us on Facebook. 672 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: You can visit our Facebook friend page. I call it 673 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: that because it's just some awesome people there. Thank you 674 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: for being a friend folks. That's right, it's called here's 675 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Join up and let's discuss these 676 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: kind of things. You can post directly there or just 677 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: talk to people. Whatever you want to do. If you 678 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: don't want to do that stuff, you can give us 679 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: a call. We are one eight three three S T 680 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: d W y t K. Leave a message. It's a 681 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: three minute max, but you can leave multiples. So do 682 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: what you gotta do and it might be on the 683 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: air if you if you don't want to be named 684 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: on the air, or you want any other stipulations, just 685 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: specifically say it, because when when you leave a message, 686 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: we may use it on the air. One last thing 687 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: before we go, just a knowing kulture is not lost 688 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: in the past. In December of eighteen, just last year, 689 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: as we record this, declassified documents revealed include at a 690 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: letter to an unidentified doctor discussing work on six dogs 691 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: made to run, turn and stop via remote control and 692 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: brain implants. That's where they were in the sixties and 693 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: maybe if they could do that to a dog then 694 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: or we're at least we're attempting to and then these 695 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: experiments continued. Are they controlling mission control? Paul Decan right now, 696 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: that's the big question. Send us an email. We are 697 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heeart podcast network dot com. Stuff they 698 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of iHeart 699 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 700 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 701 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.