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Speaker 1: H how they made to live and how they got by,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and I can't imagine. I try not

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Speaker 1: to complain about anything because they they had all the

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Speaker 1: right in the world. And I never heard him or

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Speaker 1: my grandmother negative on anything is positive, had a lot

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Speaker 1: of respect for him. On this episode of the Bear

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Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, I want to introduce you to my friend

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Speaker 1: and mentor, James Lawrence. James is seventy two years old

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Speaker 1: and he's a master whitetail hunter for the region he lives.

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Speaker 1: James's life and hunting career was heavily influenced by one

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Speaker 1: of the first deary ever killed in nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: It was a giant buck, and previous to him killing

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Speaker 1: the buck, he'd found three years of matching sheds. The

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Speaker 1: story has many layers and some significant twists and turns.

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Speaker 1: James's life has been a significant inspiration to me, and

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Speaker 1: it has impacted me on many levels. I want to

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Speaker 1: explore how and why some relationships deeply impact our lives.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna enjoy a great white tell story, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: learn how to still hunt, but I'm also gonna explore

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Speaker 1: how relationships helped form our own identity. But before we start,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question. Who are the

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Speaker 1: influential people in your life? And why? My name is

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Speaker 1: Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and

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Speaker 1: unlikely places, and where we'll tell the story of Americans

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Speaker 1: who lived their lives close to the land. James Lawrence's

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Speaker 1: family homesteaded in a small rural community in the Washingtal

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Speaker 1: Mountains of western Arkansas in the mid eighteen hundreds. They

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Speaker 1: weren't wealthy people, but common people, typical of the demographic

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Speaker 1: of those migrating into the Arkansas Highlands. Most of these

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Speaker 1: newcomers came by the way of the Appalachians and were

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Speaker 1: of Scotch Irish descent. In the mid eighteen hundreds, up

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Speaker 1: to fifty percent of the migrants that were coming into

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Speaker 1: the Ozarks came from Middle Tennessee. But James's family came

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Speaker 1: directly out of Kentucky into the Washingtals, which is a

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Speaker 1: range of mountains south of the Ozarks. To this day,

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Speaker 1: the culture of all these regions are almost mirror reflections

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Speaker 1: of each other. All the history of James's family is

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Speaker 1: held simply in what can be remembered by those still alive.

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Speaker 1: If they'd been wealthy, are famous, perhaps some documentable history

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Speaker 1: would have deemed their story worthy of remembrance. Today, weathered

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Speaker 1: headstones of granite with the name Lawrence are their only

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Speaker 1: literary hat tip. This is it right here. That's my folks,

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Speaker 1: and that's my grandparents. Um, what was your what was

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Speaker 1: your grandmother's name? Edna, Edna Goldie. I feel like in

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Speaker 1: order to understand the context of this story, we gotta

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Speaker 1: go way back. We're in a cemetery in western Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: the Lawrence Family Cemetery. What do you know about your

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Speaker 1: family history back in here? Well, the Lawrence has come

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Speaker 1: here from the East Kentucky. My dad was James Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: My granddad was James Dan Lawrence, and I'm James Edward Larnch. Now,

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Speaker 1: your grandma was a dear uter though, Oh yeah, Now

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Speaker 1: was that unusual for a woman to be a pretty

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Speaker 1: serious deer hunter or a real serious deer hunter like

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Speaker 1: she was? Was that unusual or was that comp a

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Speaker 1: little of both? A couple of her her sisters were

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Speaker 1: serious hunters, you know. And did they hunt because they

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Speaker 1: loved it? Or were they hunting for meat. It was

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Speaker 1: strictly for meat. You told me that your grandmother taught

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Speaker 1: you had a shock poucher deer, her and her brother.

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Speaker 1: Shock pouching is when you remove the lower leg bone

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Speaker 1: from the four legs of a deer, leaving the dew claws.

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Speaker 1: Then you criss cross the legs, tying them together and

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Speaker 1: effectively make backpack straps out of a deer so that

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Speaker 1: you can carry the deer out of the woods on

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Speaker 1: your back. Actually made a video of this that's on

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Speaker 1: the meat eater dot com called shock pouching that you

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Speaker 1: can see the whole thing that James taught me how

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Speaker 1: to do. Do you have any idea where that came from?

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Speaker 1: Just that's how they carried her out. Did they do it?

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Speaker 1: Just about every year? That's why they when you find

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Speaker 1: them and when they come out with him, that's the

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Speaker 1: whey they would beg they'd have it. They put off

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Speaker 1: tied in the nut and they'd carried them out physically.

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Speaker 1: You know what's pretty interesting to think about. To think

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Speaker 1: about the eighteen thirties seems like so long ago, But

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Speaker 1: if you think about it like this, you're seventy two.

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Speaker 1: You knew people that were. Your grandmother was born in

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Speaker 1: nineteen o nine, so she would have you know, her

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Speaker 1: grandparents would have been people that would have been here

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen thirties. So you think about like your

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Speaker 1: life was influenced by people whose lives were directly influenced

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Speaker 1: by people that had no technology, no cars, no phones,

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Speaker 1: like totally almost like primitive like. And so when you

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Speaker 1: think about it like that, like you're two steps away

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Speaker 1: from I mean, it's like in the scale of human

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Speaker 1: history for how long we've been here, that's like a blip.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the same part of Arkansas as James,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't meet him until he was sixty two

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Speaker 1: years old and I was around thirty. His reputation preceded him,

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Speaker 1: and I was told he was one of the best

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Speaker 1: mountain deer hunters around. I got his address, drove to

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Speaker 1: his house, and knocked on his door cold turkey. I

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Speaker 1: introduced myself to a warm, humble, and rugged man who

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Speaker 1: opened the door. I received immediate credibility because of the

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Speaker 1: man who told me about him, a mutual friend of ours.

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Speaker 1: James's response was predictable of the mountain people. If he's

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Speaker 1: a friend of yours, then you're a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: I told him I was writing an article about deer

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Speaker 1: hunting in the mountains of Arkansas. Our hunting culture has

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Speaker 1: gradually moved to being dominated by deer feeders and sacks

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Speaker 1: of corn. I'm not necessarily against feeding deer. I do

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Speaker 1: it myself some, but it has undisputably degraded the level

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Speaker 1: of knowledge about deer and deer hunting in the modern era.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to an expert who hunted deer

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Speaker 1: in the mountains on public land. Something immediately told me

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Speaker 1: I had found one. His face was worn with deep

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Speaker 1: wrinkles that had clearly greeted the sun daily for decades.

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Speaker 1: I'd learned that he used to be a smoker, but

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Speaker 1: had quit for health reason some years ago. In his

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Speaker 1: early thirties, James was a game warden, but resigned after

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Speaker 1: a series of incidents, one of which involved him ticketing

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Speaker 1: a government official for a game violation, but he was

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Speaker 1: then later told to rescind the citation in a back

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Speaker 1: room meeting with a supervisor. The injustice was too much

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Speaker 1: for a man ray eased in the mountains who never

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Speaker 1: heard of silver spoons or the advantages of political hierarchy.

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Speaker 1: James made his living as a carpenter, stonemason, and cattle farmer.

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Speaker 1: He once built an entire complex of buildings in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. It was a mountain retreat center, and the

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Speaker 1: job called for four hundred tons of native stonework. James

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Speaker 1: spent years gathering the rocks by hand and doing the work.

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Speaker 1: In my mind, James is representative of the Mountain people,

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Speaker 1: hard working, humble, independent, leery of outsiders, but quick to

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Speaker 1: befriend you if friendship is offered. He doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: lose a grudge too quickly, but to his friends he's

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Speaker 1: deeply loyal and sacrificial. On that first meeting with James

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, I looked at a wall

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Speaker 1: of white tailed deer racks. The horns were screwed to

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Speaker 1: the sheet rock wall in his garage, and they were

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Speaker 1: all cut from the skull plate in the same way

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Speaker 1: I'd learned that his uncle showed him how to cut

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Speaker 1: the skull plates, so they set flat on the wall,

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Speaker 1: displaying the rack at a very particular and natural angle.

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Speaker 1: His uncle taught him to tan the hide and put

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Speaker 1: it back on the skull plate. Bucks that had been

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Speaker 1: off the hoof for fifty years still had their original hair.

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Speaker 1: They ranged in size from basket rack bucks to mature,

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Speaker 1: top notch white tales. For the region. One rack stood

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Speaker 1: out from the rest, and the yellowed horns looked old.

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Speaker 1: The hair on the skull plate was faded. Surely this

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Speaker 1: deer had a story. I walked to the rack and

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Speaker 1: touched its rough burrs, and I asked him about the deer.

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Speaker 1: I was amazed at the story that he began to

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Speaker 1: tell me. But before you hear the story directly from James,

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Speaker 1: you've got to understand the context. In the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: and sixties, deer numbers in Arkansas were low, and for

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Speaker 1: an even deeper look into the context, on December eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh seven, President Teddy Roosevelt created the Washington nash

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Speaker 1: No Forest, and prior to that the region had been

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Speaker 1: logged at a landscape level, meaning almost everything was cut.

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Speaker 1: With the trees went the wildlife in most of the

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Speaker 1: other big game, including bears, but don't get me started

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Speaker 1: on that. With the new management of the Forest Service,

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Speaker 1: by the nineteen fifties, the forests were recovering, but the

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Speaker 1: primary method of deer hunting the low density population was

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Speaker 1: with dogs. Using the dogs was a traditional and effective

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Speaker 1: method for rousing deer out of their layers, but very

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Speaker 1: few hunters at the time knew how to hunt deer

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Speaker 1: on their natural patterns. So when you hear this story,

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Speaker 1: I think you'll agree that it was an incredible feat,

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Speaker 1: especially for a young boy. When I was with my

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Speaker 1: uncle out here on weekend when we lived in town

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Speaker 1: at the time. All the weekends out here, Uh, he'd

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Speaker 1: give me a twenty two rifle, and ammunition was cheap.

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Speaker 1: And when I was out here, I was out wondering

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Speaker 1: the fields, and all of it was family owned. Right

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Speaker 1: here where we're sitting, the first sheds was probably a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards from where we're sitting, across the Costa,

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Speaker 1: the head waters of the Costa, and there they were

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Speaker 1: just together, touching each other, just laid right on top

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Speaker 1: of each other. They do on top each other. And

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Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't pick them up and run over

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Speaker 1: here and show them quick enough. And you would have been, uh,

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Speaker 1: you'd have been eleven years old. These first sheds you

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Speaker 1: found right here would have been in like nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: probably three years of sheds and then the bucks of

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Speaker 1: fifty nine, sixties, sixty one, and sixty two. You killed

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Speaker 1: the deer, so you found this, these sheds just right there.

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Speaker 1: You pointed out to me a cedar tree that they

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Speaker 1: were laying by, And that was during a time when

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Speaker 1: there there weren't deering these mountains. During that time, James's

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Speaker 1: family would go off to deer camp, but James rarely went.

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Speaker 1: He'd stay home and wander around alone on his home place,

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Speaker 1: shooting squirrels and rabbits with his twenty two. These early

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Speaker 1: solo hunts would set a track for his future hunting,

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Speaker 1: but it also brings up the question why I wasn't

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Speaker 1: he included in these family outings. I was one of

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Speaker 1: the only ones that was out drashing through the woods

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Speaker 1: and through the fields and the thickets for the rabbits

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Speaker 1: and squirrels. I was jumping deer. You know. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: explain it to them because they I was jumping deer

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Speaker 1: all the time, and they were going off dog hunting

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Speaker 1: and they're occasionally killing deer, and the family wouldn't seeing it.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't follow me around, and I would try to

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Speaker 1: tell him what I've seen, and I know it's hard

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Speaker 1: to believe. They were off, scattered out hunting and they're

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Speaker 1: not seeing anything. They come in and I've got these stories.

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Speaker 1: Well they wasn't interesting in my stories. I mean it really,

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Speaker 1: here's the here's the bigger question. Why weren't you hunting

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Speaker 1: with them? They I went with my granddad and sat

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Speaker 1: on a stand freeze to death. We'd build a little

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Speaker 1: bitty fire if we're just stay warm. And he was

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Speaker 1: waiting on the dogs to run a deer by us.

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Speaker 1: Why would it accuse us when there's standards everywhere. We

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Speaker 1: would occasionally see deer, but I could stay home and

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Speaker 1: I could just walk down the fence rows and I

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Speaker 1: could see dere So you started really learning from a

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Speaker 1: young age how to hunt these deer. Well, it was

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Speaker 1: just from being out. So you saw him. I saw him.

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Speaker 1: I saw him twice. So you came back and told

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Speaker 1: your family, I saw a big buck, and I know

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Speaker 1: I had excitement. I was excited all over. After James

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Speaker 1: found the first set of sheds the next fall, he

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Speaker 1: actually saw the buck hard horn. He shared the sighting

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Speaker 1: with his family, but you can guess the response that

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Speaker 1: he got a little kid claiming to have seen a

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Speaker 1: giant buck. He was dismissed, you know. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: hard to visualize that thing when I was a kid

220
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Speaker 1: seeing the buck of that, yeah, standing a broadside, nothing

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Speaker 1: between me and at me. With the twenty two, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't go any further. I had to come tell somebody,

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Speaker 1: which was my uncle. And I don't know I would

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Speaker 1: have got excited if eleven year old kids come up

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Speaker 1: and told me what they've just seen in excitement. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it just didn't seem to They kind of dismissed you. Well,

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Speaker 1: it just feels it hurt my feeling. But I had proof,

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Speaker 1: you know. So that second year, so you find these sheds,

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Speaker 1: and just to give people a context, that first year sheds,

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Speaker 1: I think I scored it in the high one forties,

231
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Speaker 1: one fifties. I mean, so this is not a small deer,

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Speaker 1: especially for the late nineteen fifties and the Washtaw Mountains.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is like a major your dear, So

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Speaker 1: you come back with the sheds the second year, you're

235
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Speaker 1: you're you, How did you find the second set of

236
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Speaker 1: sheds the same way I had my twenty two and

237
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Speaker 1: it was right over here. I was stumbling around, I

238
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Speaker 1: was squirrel hunting up the road, and I was going

239
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Speaker 1: up that dark I called it dark hollow. There's a

240
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Speaker 1: holler where the road and makes a sharp bend, and

241
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Speaker 1: I'd go up that hollar on rocks basically where I

242
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Speaker 1: could slip up. And you're at the squirrel barking, and

243
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Speaker 1: and I was on my way back come around and basically, oh,

244
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Speaker 1: all but inside of where we're sitting right now, coming down.

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Speaker 1: So you pick up the second year sheds of this buck. Yeah,

246
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Speaker 1: the third year. Tell me how you found those horns?

247
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Speaker 1: Same way? How was that stumbling? Where was where was that?

248
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Speaker 1: They were separate? They were on up the head of Costa.

249
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Speaker 1: The Costa Tot is a fast flowing eighty nine mile

250
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Speaker 1: long river in western Arkansas that flows out of the

251
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Speaker 1: Southern Wash. It toss its headwaters basically start on the

252
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Speaker 1: Lawrence family homestead. The word costatat is a Native American

253
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Speaker 1: word that roughly translates into skull crusher. It's known for

254
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 1: its rapids further down the river. Hey, in the third

255
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Speaker 1: set of sheds, I scored that deer, given it the

256
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 1: same spread credit as the actual deer in that dear

257
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 1: gross scored over a hundred seventy. I mean so this

258
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 1: is in the in the now, we're into the early

259
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, and so I mean, this is a this

260
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Speaker 1: is a gross one seventy plus typical. And you have

261
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: found third years. She has. And I want to say

262
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Speaker 1: something like people in the Midwest today, in farm country,

263
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Speaker 1: they'll have history with deer. You know, they'll find two

264
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Speaker 1: or three years the sheds of a buck down here.

265
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Speaker 1: In the nineteen fifties and sixties, that was unheard of.

266
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Speaker 1: It was now the fall of nineteen sixty two. James

267
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: was now thirteen years old, and he'd collected three years

268
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Speaker 1: a giant sheds of a buck almost within sight of

269
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Speaker 1: his house. He'd been dismissed by many of the hunters

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Speaker 1: and his family, but things were about to change. And

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Speaker 1: so tell me, tell me about that day. Wow, a

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Speaker 1: typical deer season day. I'd been roaming around jumping deer,

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Speaker 1: as was typical. James stayed home and hunted while his

274
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Speaker 1: family went off to deer camp. He had a stand

275
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Speaker 1: at a deer crossing that he'd often go and sit

276
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Speaker 1: most of the day. By stand, he didn't mean a

277
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Speaker 1: tree stand. It was a stump that he set on.

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Speaker 1: Family loaded up and was going. I was out of

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Speaker 1: school that day. Family went over and they let me

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Speaker 1: stay home because of I've been telling them what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were off hunting, and that was what

282
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Speaker 1: I did. I went up and said on that stand

283
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Speaker 1: because it was basically acrossing for year. And this was

284
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Speaker 1: with my new thirty thirty marline. I said to lunch

285
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Speaker 1: time and I was at top of the hill eating

286
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 1: lunch at our house where we lived, looking down on

287
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Speaker 1: the field and I seen a dough down in the

288
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Speaker 1: field while I was taking a breaking. I hadn't seen

289
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Speaker 1: anything at that time. It was a big deal to

290
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: see it. Dear. Yeah, I had my sandwich, walked back

291
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 1: down the road. I got caught and it was a

292
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: It was a local person asking me if I've seen

293
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Speaker 1: any dogs or picked up any dogs, or hurt any

294
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Speaker 1: dogs or whatever. Standing there talking to him. They were

295
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 1: gonna pick up and I looked across the foot of

296
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Speaker 1: the truck out in that field while we were talking,

297
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,160
Speaker 1: I could visualize and I could see horns up above

298
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Speaker 1: safe grass. This is you're looking across the hood at

299
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Speaker 1: this vi here exactly while talking to him, I was

300
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,880
Speaker 1: looking at for that dough. I didn't tell him about

301
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Speaker 1: the dough. I didn't fasten any information anyway. I didn't

302
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 1: say anything to them, but I kind of wanted them

303
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,399
Speaker 1: to go on, and they did. I went on around

304
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 1: like I always do, get in that stand setting up

305
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 1: there in that little cap. I get up there and

306
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 1: sitting down, and I started thinking about that there did

307
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: I don't really see. I get up and slipped down

308
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 1: and had a fence to cross to get in that field.

309
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: I slipped down there and a dog jumped up. Man,

310
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Speaker 1: it got me excited. And the dog went out in

311
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Speaker 1: the middle of the field and I've seen a movement

312
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 1: and here was here was a ship buck just come

313
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: up out of that sage grass and looked at me.

314
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Speaker 1: He was in it bed. He stood up out of

315
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 1: the grass and he was standing up, raring up to

316
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: get up. When I shot the first time, and you

317
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 1: hit him the first time. I hit him the first time,

318
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: but you jacked another shellacked another shell, hit him again, disappeared,

319
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 1: he went down. What did you feel like when you

320
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 1: walked up to that buck? I'd I don't know how

321
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: to describe it. I still remember the excitement, but you

322
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: know it was I didn't know what to do. James

323
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: set and admired the shed buck for a while, but

324
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 1: ended up going home to wait on the return of

325
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: his family from deer hunting. Taking to consideration that this

326
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: was the biggest buck anybody in the family would have

327
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: ever seen, and if James could forecast in the future,

328
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: he'd see that it would likely be the biggest buck

329
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Speaker 1: he'd ever kill in his life. You'd think he'd get

330
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 1: a good response. And I, you know, we talked about

331
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: it before. I didn't get the response that I was.

332
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: You know, they walked up on it, the deer was

333
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 1: laying there, they feel dressed a deer, and we drug

334
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: it out. And you know, I've got pictures of when

335
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: I was a kid holding my dad's deer. Don't There

336
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: wasn't no picture taking. There wasn't know, so they didn't

337
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: celebrate with you. There wasn't a celebration. My uncle took

338
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: the horns, like I showed you different ones that he

339
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 1: took it, cut the horns off and put the skin

340
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: back around it and put it on a board it

341
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: And that would have been the biggest deer that any

342
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: of these guys had ever seen. Obviously, you know, my

343
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: dad killed several deer, but they wouldn't nothing, because James,

344
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: you've been hunting right in here since nineteen or late

345
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, so that's over sixty years, and this is

346
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: the biggest buck that you've killed this day. And you've

347
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: probably killed over a hundred white tails since then. Well

348
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: over that. Yeah, what I meant to say was that

349
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: he's killed over a hundred mature mountain bucks on public

350
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: land without bait, most without trail cameras, in the majority

351
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: of them from the ground while still hunting. James would

352
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: become a master at hunting the mountains of Arkansas. He

353
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: hunted out of tree stands, but he loved to still

354
00:21:54,440 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: hunt the buck. I I scored it this deer, James.

355
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: This is what I love about you is that you

356
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: never had that deer scored you. You never even cared

357
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: what it scored. And then I think in two thousand

358
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: and ten, I saw the deer and I said, hey,

359
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: we gotta score that deer, and you were like, yeah,

360
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: let's see what it scored. And I scored that dear,

361
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: GROWTH scored it right at a hundred sixty inches. The

362
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: buck was starting to go downhill. The prior year he

363
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: grows scored a hundred and seventy inches. I can't express

364
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 1: what an incredible feat this would be to kill a

365
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty inch deer at any time by anybody,

366
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: but even more so in nineteen sixty two by a

367
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: thirteen year old boy. I asked James how killing the

368
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: buck affected the trajectory of his hunting. Two times before that,

369
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: I went to the dog camp the deer deer season

370
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: for the It was a camp house. It was a

371
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: relative old home place. How was still standing? That was

372
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: the camp My granddad's brother. He was always off still hunting.

373
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: Twice he invited me to go. My uncle invited me

374
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: to go with him, and he started showing me we

375
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: didn't the amazing part of him when a't odd ball

376
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: in the family, just kind of done things different than

377
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: the rest of the boys did. They had hunting dogs

378
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: and he didn't have any. He didn't go to set

379
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: on the deer stand like the rest of them. He

380
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: would go off a different direction. But the thing that

381
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: really I tried all my life to do, he started

382
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: hunting when he took the first step off the road,

383
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: and when he get inside of the road, he didn't

384
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: quit hunting. He when he stepped back in the road

385
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: is when he quit hunting. M when he stepped in

386
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: the woods. He was hunting. Even in the first time

387
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: we left across the road from the cabin over the

388
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: house where the deer camp was at with all the

389
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,719
Speaker 1: barking dogs and the people and excitement and stuff. And

390
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: we started hunting the minute we stepped off the road

391
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: across from cabin. And he taught you how to track there.

392
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: And the man could track a deer, just go through

393
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: the woods and find a track and could stay on it,

394
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: and and where every time I went like mud, this

395
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: is like Lee rock piles, right, he's tracking deer, and

396
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: he's tracking deer. And most of the time I had

397
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 1: to step in the same tracks that he stepped as

398
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: he slipped through in it. You know, sometimes Clay, we

399
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: wouldn't go thirty yards, and I swear it was thirty minutes.

400
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: And in other times we would travel a little bit faster.

401
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: But I know the first time we went, we was

402
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: almost back inside of the hunting party when we jumped

403
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: the deer and we've been on him for a while,

404
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: and he was, I don't like, just amazed me. So

405
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 1: I took two different times we did that, and I

406
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: took quite he he showed me, but he didn't really

407
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: show me. I just picked up on what we were

408
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 1: doing in the way he was doing it. And so

409
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: there was something appealing to you about your uncle what

410
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: was his name, Raymond an Ashcraft, Raymond Nashcraft in the

411
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: way the way he hunted in James, to this day,

412
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: that's the way you prefer to hunt. And you'd call

413
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: it still hunting. That's all that I mean, that's what

414
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: they called it then, and that's all I know how

415
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: to call it. It was still that. Some people call

416
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: it slip hunting. And I don't have the patience that

417
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: I used to. But years ago, I'd spend a day

418
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't go nowhere. I mean, you know, I

419
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: had dear I thought pinpointed in the area they was in,

420
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: and just amazed me how a little travel I'd be doing.

421
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: But you know, a few steps or a tree, uh,

422
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 1: And it's amazing how many deer would get up and

423
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: start slipping out away from you that you pick up

424
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: or Yeah. I got more specific with James about the

425
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: details of the style of still hunting that he d

426
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: on a good November morning when you were still hunting

427
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: like you would have done all those years. What kind

428
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: of area were you going to? Why would you be

429
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: going to that area? And then what would you do

430
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: when you got there? When I'd go into the woods,

431
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: unless something calming that I had to be back out,

432
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: if this was a day that was set aside for

433
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: me that I didn't have to come back, I left

434
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: that truck intention to coming back at dark. When I

435
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: leave the woods the year before, I know that I

436
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: had left deer in that area, so I didn't do

437
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: any pre scouting. I just could go back into the

438
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: area where I know that I left good Bucks the

439
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: year before. I had already learned some trails, some saddles,

440
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: some gaps. The area is on the mountain that I

441
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: would finding more signs, so I would go into it

442
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: that way, I didn't disturb anything, and I would hunt

443
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: from the time I've left the road going into the

444
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: woods to the mountain. Basically in our mountains run east

445
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: and west, most of our winds coming out of the south,

446
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: so I always I could calculate which direction I wanted

447
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: to hunt on the mountains. And uh, I think that

448
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: helped more than anything than scouting, because the scout and

449
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: I'd always disturbed deer. This deer hadn't been disturbed this

450
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: area that I hunt. I know there's nobody been in there.

451
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: That's a big key right there, as you intentionally we're

452
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: going in on undisturbed still, honey, it didn't help me

453
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: anybody going in and trying to locate stuff. I would

454
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: go in on something that's already familiar with from the

455
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: year before, and I skipped around. I mean I covered

456
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: quite a bit of ground. But I'd pick out an

457
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: area to go into without any monet that you know,

458
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: the wind, and you would go in with the wind

459
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: at your face or across wind. And then would you

460
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: pick a certain kind of day? Did you need wet

461
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: leaves so he could move quiet? Or could you go

462
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: when it was dry? I didn't. I'd go when I could.

463
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: It didn't matter. I didn't wait on a particular day.

464
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: If it's dry, just took you a little longer. There's

465
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: still on end. But in our reality, I didn't move

466
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: any faster. I don't move any faster. And wet ground

467
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: and I don't dry. If you're setting up in the

468
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: tree stand and you hear a deer coming, if you'll

469
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: walk like a there, you can walk up on a deer.

470
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: A deer will walk and stop and walk and stop.

471
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: And if you do the same thing, you can do

472
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: the same thing to deer. So you you would just

473
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: you'd start hunting as soon as you left the road

474
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: and tracks, just I really, would you just move just slow?

475
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: Like how far would you travel in a given period

476
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: of time. That's a hard question to answer, because sometimes

477
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: I may not be a hundred yards from where I

478
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: was at an hour ago, okay, or hardly there, I

479
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: mean fifty yards even I guess you'd be encouraged by

480
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: seeing signing, like seeing rubs or seeing seeing a little sign.

481
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: And squirrels will happy, bird will happy. You know, if

482
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: there's something moving out here, you're a squirrel barking down here,

483
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 1: and no one is not barking at you. You know,

484
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: I've sat there many, many, many times in the squirrel

485
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: be barking at a coon or something else, thinking it

486
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: was a deer. Sometimes it's a deer. I could spend

487
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: half a day and not go for yards. What would

488
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: you do? Would you lean up against the tree? Would

489
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: you like find landmarks? And you'd say, I'm gonna try

490
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: to get to there, and then so I did never

491
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: do that, Okay, no landmarks. I mean, I know what

492
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: you're saying, but I would head to the landmark, but

493
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know if I'm gonna go this direction over

494
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: that holler, I'd take my time getting to it. And

495
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: if I dropped down and then coming over the next

496
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: ridge or a sale, that's when I'd spend a lot

497
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: of time EA's and up and covering all the ground

498
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: on the next area ahead of me. How how do

499
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: you usually see deer? Like? What did they do? And James?

500
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: Are they moving? Are they bedded down? Anything from a

501
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: twitch for an air as a tail, any kind of movement,

502
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: just lock in on it and and not move. You know,

503
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: what about your shots? Are you having to take a

504
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: lot of moving shots? Just of all those deer on

505
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: your wall, what would you say would be the most

506
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: common shot? Just he's standing out there broadside, you shoot him. Well,

507
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: you can't really do that and still hunting. You kind

508
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: of have to take the shot when you get it walking.

509
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can catch one standing, of course

510
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: you want to brought that shot. Oh no, they probably

511
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't standing. They'd moving moving, not not not running, and

512
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: when they're traveling even you know, if you got behind

513
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: the buck, I mean between the doe and the buck

514
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: trailing the dough bucks coming through there, but his head

515
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: on the ground and he's already trailing. When you got

516
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: to plan ahead and pull out. And so you've been

517
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: looking for a gap, you'd you'd you'd kind of try

518
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: to predict where he was gonna be, and you'd be there.

519
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: What kind of what was your go to rifle? Started

520
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: out with the thirty thirty Marlin for many many, many

521
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: many years, and later years, uh got a three o

522
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: eight with a scope on it. And all you're stopping

523
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: around out there, James, I know you would, like you

524
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: you would, you would just learn where you would see

525
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: a buck of all this turn where would you see bucks?

526
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: Was there? Trend most of them were close to two

527
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: thirds of the way up the mountain, and a lot

528
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: of these mountains have a little we call them saddles,

529
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: a little gaps, and most of the time they'd be

530
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: on the upper side of those gaps, looking down on

531
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: the gaps, or I mean they're covering their back to

532
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: You wouldn't stay on top of the mountain, you'd be

533
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: on the side. I'm not hunted a whole lot on

534
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: top really just over the turn, either on the north

535
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: or on the south. For many years, I wouldn't not

536
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: on the south. It's strictly the north. Really we went

537
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: into camping one day or sin of camping with me

538
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: any like the south side. We hunted the south side,

539
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: and it's the big Bucks is on the south side too.

540
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: If you could give me one key for still hunting

541
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: these mountains, what would it be. Patience is ninety nine

542
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: percent of it. And you know, of course the wind

543
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: in your face, James, I, I do you think that

544
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: you have h or a hunter has a sixth sense,

545
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: like a like a sensing of a deer being somewhere?

546
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: I do, yeah, I do. How does that feel to you?

547
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: That's a hard one to describe it. I mean, do

548
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: you feel like you know, you feel like he's here?

549
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: If where is he? You know, and maybe there's no

550
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: real reason to know, you just you know, you just

551
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: sense that he's here. Where is it? You don't move

552
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: your head, you move your eyes, you don't move your body.

553
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: You know that, dear, you're right on top of it,

554
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: and that many times you're right and most of the

555
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: time he busts you. But I mean, you'll finally give

556
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: up and make a move and the deer it would

557
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: be basically in plain sight. Now that's that's when your

558
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: go heart goes to something, when you get and you

559
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: know he's there. And many times Clay they are. You know. Yeah,

560
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: it's just like you know they are, you feel that

561
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: they are. They are. But that was excite part of hunting.

562
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: It's not the kill. That's it's out smart and no buck,

563
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: there's one on one out there when you're still here

564
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: now sitting in a tree. I love that po hunting

565
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: um our gunning, but the excitement that I got growing up.

566
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: But still, let's see, I think that you built your

567
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: whole white tail world going off where nobody else wants

568
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: to go, doing it alone. For the most part, you

569
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: had a few close hunting buddies, you took your wife

570
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: sometimes with you, but you learned how to be a

571
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: master woodsman for these mountains. And that's that is what

572
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: I always from the day I met you, James, was

573
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: I valued your humility. I've I valued your your skill

574
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: and craft and the way you dedicated yourself to know

575
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: these mountains and know these deer the way you do.

576
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: And you just learned how to be successful in a

577
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: re the difficult place. Scott Brown and I grew up

578
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: together and share an appreciation for hunting these mountain bucks

579
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: in our region. He has a good story that puts

580
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: James Is hunting into context. My dad grew up with

581
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: a dad who believed the only way you you could

582
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: hunt a deer was to run dogs. You know. They

583
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: were passionate dog hunters, and that was just the you know,

584
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 1: to them, the only way to hunt a deer. And

585
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: so there was this thought that you didn't turn the

586
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: dogs out until the frost melted off. So you get

587
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: them in the morning, make some coffee, you'd sit around,

588
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: lets the sun come up, get the frost melted off.

589
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: Then you load all your dogs up. Everybody go get

590
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: on where they felt a deer was going to come

591
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: running by, you know, And there was some art to

592
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: that and anyway they sit around there. This would have

593
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: been probably in sixty seven sixty eight. They're sitting around

594
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: deer camping, and my grandpa's as well, we're gonna go

595
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: get in this gap. There was a certain gap there

596
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: on the mountain. Nor these deer like if they headed south,

597
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: they were going to go through this low gap in

598
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: the mountain and so they leave out. They walk out

599
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: into this big low gap, real pretty When you get

600
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: up there, my grandpa says, come here, I want to

601
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: show you something. You look at. My grandpa goes, look

602
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: at that right there, and and there's a tree stand

603
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: just basically a platform built on it in a tree

604
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: with some big old nail spikes, spikes, railroad tied spikes,

605
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: just just you know, hammered into this tree and this stand.

606
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: You know. He said it was probably twelve or fifteen

607
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: feet off the ground. You know, it's pretty high. Back then, well,

608
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: that had never even seen a tree stand. Was the

609
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: first one he'd ever seen in his life. My grandpa

610
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: looks at that and he says, would you believe that

611
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: somebody would do something like that? No, I I can't believe.

612
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: So you just just unheard of during that time for

613
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: people to hunt out of tree stands. Yeah, And it

614
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: was the first time my dad ever realized that you

615
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: could actually still hunt a deer. You know, he was

616
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: raised that wasn't an option. It was kind of eye

617
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: opening to him that you could, you know, you just

618
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: set in that tree and hill a deer walk by,

619
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, and it sounded like an insurmountable task, you know,

620
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: to set that stand, just waiting on a deer to

621
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: happen by. So anyway, my grandpa just kept on about

622
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: it because I just can't believe anybody is sitting something

623
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: like that. He's just stupid, just setting a stand when

624
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 1: you could, you know, turn a dog's loose on something,

625
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, just a totally different frame of mind.

626
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: And Dad, Dad kind of said something, well, whose is it.

627
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: My grandpa said, well, it's that Lawrence boy, and Dad,

628
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: so who's that? And so anyway, he got a My

629
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: grandpa kind of elaborated about James Lawrence back in the

630
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: late sixties and said, nobody in this part of the world,

631
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: at least, you know, in southwest Arkansas was even doing

632
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: anything like that, you know, so he's way ahead of

633
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: his time. But yeah, James was doing he was hunting

634
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: low saddles and mountains and the stuff that I grew

635
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: up thirty years later, thirty years later, and I understood

636
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: that that's what you had to do, you know, that's

637
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: what you did hunt deer. Well that wasn't It wasn't

638
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: that way, you know, people, people didn't really start understanding.

639
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: There was kind of this revival, well not a revival,

640
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: but a new understanding of how to deer hunt came

641
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: in the seven or mass distribution of knowledge about deer

642
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: hunting in the seventies eighties, and then in the nineties

643
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: with outdoor television and just increase of outdoor media. But

644
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys were kind of pioneers for

645
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: how to pattern deer do all this. You like to hunt,

646
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: you like to hunt off horseback too, though, I like

647
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: to hunt horseback, and I like to get as far

648
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: away from rhodes and chicken houses, dogs, you know, and

649
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: get as far back as I can. So you would

650
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: lead the horse in with the saddle paniard, which is

651
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: basically you'd have a riding saddle and then you'd put

652
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: a paniard over and carry all your stuff in. I mean,

653
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: when you were camping, we started out from army duffel bags,

654
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: tying them, balancing them on a saddle. You know, worked

655
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: your way up to that, and then that was wonderful.

656
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: You know, go from backpacking in having that horse carry everything,

657
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: and then you'd get to camp and unloaded, then you

658
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: could ride the horse. We'll see you you taught me

659
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: how to do that. That's the way. That's my favorite

660
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: way to hunt. I missed that so much. There were

661
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: one time you told me you stayed nine days back

662
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: in there by yourself. That's that's the longest I've ever stayed.

663
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: Um And I just want to say that, like out west,

664
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: like there's this big, vast country and you know, people

665
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: go back in on these long hunts. Around here, there

666
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: was very few people that we're getting back in that

667
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: deep and staying that long. I mean, you didn't know

668
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: anybody around here doing that, did you? Nobody did, so

669
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: I just I kind of put that into context. You know.

670
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: It's like for for around here, that was like extreme

671
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: whitetail honey, and would be to this day. I miss it. Well,

672
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, James, you massively inspired me. And I mean

673
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: since we've been good friends for a long time now,

674
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean I model a whole lot of what I

675
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: do after you, you know, And it's my favorite way

676
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: to hunt. And I'm not very good at it. I'm

677
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: not as good at as you are. Oh Man. Mike

678
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: Schultz is one of the leaders in our church and

679
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: he's also a master woodworker. He has also someone whose

680
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: life has significantly impacted mine on many levels. I want

681
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: to discuss with him why and how relationships affect us.

682
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: Mike Schultz, I'm trying to understand why relationships are so

683
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: unique and why some relationships impact us in certain ways.

684
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that you're the one sitting here, Mike,

685
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: because as you know, you're you're a man that I

686
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: would consider someone who's been deeply influential in my life

687
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: in many ways. I also have seen you be real

688
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: intentional with the mentors and relationships in your life. Why

689
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: does some relationships impact us, Well, that's a good question.

690
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: I think relationships are how we gain an understanding of

691
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: who we are. Relationships can fulfill things inside of us

692
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: that we're looking for. Ultimately, I think humans are designed

693
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: to be relational. That's the starting point. We need each other.

694
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: I found that in my own life some relationships I

695
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: knew or divine. Um, I knew it very early on

696
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: inside of the relationship that there was a connection that

697
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: would be deep and that would be really heart joining

698
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: and heartfelt, and that they would be long term. And

699
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: to me that those are the ones that I know

700
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: are divine, those are the ones that I know that

701
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: are orchestrated. I was side of myself their relationships that well,

702
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: the Bible talks about iron sharpening iron, where each person

703
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: is growing, each person is gaining understanding, each person is

704
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: developing as a human being. Mike, I've heard you talk

705
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: about how the different relationships that you've had in your

706
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: life have helped form personal identity for you. Can you

707
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: expand on that? Yeah, I think the best way I

708
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: can talk about that is just through one example that

709
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: comes to mind, a relationship with people that I've had

710
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: on learning new skills and watching someone who had a

711
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: very high skill level in a particular area. And the

712
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: area that I'm going to talk about is a friend

713
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: of mine that was a very very fine woodworker, cabinet maker.

714
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: I came to him and asked him if he would

715
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: begin to mentor me or teach me in that area.

716
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: He was very generous, and I watched him cut handcut

717
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: dovetails for for drawers, and I was impressed by the

718
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: skill of his hands. And when I first saw it,

719
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: I thought this is impossible to do. Seeing his hands

720
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: and watching him and with his encouragement, it took me

721
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: into a whole another level and I discovered something about

722
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: myself that I could do things beyond what I thought

723
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: were possible. And you know what, he didn't just teach

724
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: you with skill, because I think somebody could just say, well,

725
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: he just taught you how to do something. You could

726
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: have watched it on YouTube. I don't think so. Like

727
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: he he did teach you a skill, but he expanded you.

728
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: So there was like a technology that came into you

729
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: about this high level of skill that you didn't know

730
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: it was possible. And to stretch yourself and to grow

731
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: that wouldn't have came from a YouTube video. That's exactly right, Clay.

732
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: And it was through relationship too. It was through his encouragement.

733
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: That's that was the That was the word that I

734
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 1: keyed in on, Mike. I've seen you prioritize relationships inside

735
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: of your life. Why do you do that? It's very

736
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: easy to have a lot of friends for somebody like you,

737
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: it is Mike, maybe uh uh. I think the important

738
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: thing inside of relationship is that relationships can grow us,

739
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: or they can stunt us, or they can slow us

740
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: down in our our development as a as a person.

741
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: And it's important to know which relationships are the ones

742
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: that are are nourishing us personally. I want relationships, the

743
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: deep ones are important to me that those ones where

744
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: I become a better human being. Yeah, the uniqueness of

745
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: who we are as an individual is deeply formed by

746
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: the relationships that we form that nourish us. And there

747
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: are aspects of who we are that actually come from

748
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: different relationships that we have. We need a multitude of

749
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: people around us for us to discover really the multifascined

750
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: nature of really who we are. I think about my life,

751
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: I very clearly see that my life is a unique

752
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: combination of all the people I've been close to and

753
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: I have let in. And I believe that's part of

754
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: the divine nature of life. Uh. Is that that understanding

755
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: that I need others that I cannot be an island

756
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: unto myself. James built much of his life around deer hunting.

757
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: He loved the fall and wild places so much he

758
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: decided he'd work hard for ten months of the year

759
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: and hunt the other two. How maybe it was nine

760
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: and three. The wild thing is is that for somebody

761
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: so passionate, he never shared with many people about his success.

762
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: Maybe he even kept it hidden just a little bit,

763
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: or at least by modern standards, hidden. People in the

764
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: community knew about James hunting, but he wasn't one to

765
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: brag on his accomplishments. I think it probably goes back

766
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: to the initial response he got from the first deer

767
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: he ever killed. Sharing things that are valuable to us

768
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: make us vulnerable. James would learn to set his own standards,

769
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: and he'd celebrate his accomplishments with a few close friends.

770
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 1: He was never bitter, but it made him humble about

771
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: his deer hunting. And trust me, he's the guy you

772
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 1: want around if you have a successful hunt. He's all

773
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: about celebrating the success of others. I don't know that

774
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: I've ever had a hunting buddy that convinced me with

775
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: more certainty that they'd rather me have success than them.

776
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: So you're hunting really shaped shaped your life in a

777
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: lot of ways. I mean, you built your life kind

778
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: of around deer hunt. May be sad, but true. He

779
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: said something to me one time, he said, I'd lose

780
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: a crop for a good deer hunt. Yeah. Yeah, I've

781
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: used that since then, because you know what, I've built

782
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: my life sort of in the same way we we

783
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: like you have grown up out here in the mountains,

784
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: your whole life. To you, this is just normal life.

785
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: But it's a pretty incredible privilege to be a backwoodsman

786
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: in twenty two money. I can't imagine anything else really,

787
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: and this is my life. I mean, that's uh. I

788
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 1: was lucky enough this this property I'm own, um factually

789
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: come up with, uh shy sixty acres of the old

790
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: homestead place where I grew up. I didn't dream of

791
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: the situation growing up. I never thought about losing my family,

792
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: my granddad and my uncle's special It's pretty pretty unique

793
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: for this day and age. I'm blessed to be here,

794
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to do that. What I've

795
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: always noted about James, even from our first meeting, was

796
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 1: this humility in the midst of notable accomplishments. He's never

797
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: left his humble roots. James became a master woodsman in

798
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: whitetail hunter and rarely got more than ten miles from

799
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: where he was born and raised. He's lived an incredible

800
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: life of adventure in back country hunting that I say

801
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: would rival any hunter that I've ever met. He didn't

802
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: have to travel to exotic hunting destinations to experience the

803
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: incredible bounty, both internal and external, that wild places offer.

804
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: James's dedication to woodsmen craft and the specific style of

805
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: hunting is inspiring and challenging to me personally. His humility

806
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: is a standard to which I evaluate my own life.

807
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: His story also causes me to reflect on the early encounters,

808
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: both positive and negative, that I had in hunting that

809
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: steer me to this day, and this makes me want

810
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: to be a positive voice in the story of the

811
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: young hunters of my life. Relationships build the framework of

812
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: our lives and affect its trajectory. James is one on

813
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: a short list of people that have altered the shape

814
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: of my life in a significant way. And sometimes it's

815
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: hard for me to even understand why. The unique shape

816
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: that is our personal identity is a combination of the

817
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: influential relationships in our life. I just can't get away

818
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: from this idea. Yeah, we're hunters that love wild places,

819
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: wild meat, and adventure, but I believe the thing that

820
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: we're after that's of extreme value is the human relationships

821
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: that we build throughout our life. And what we're passionate

822
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: about connects us to people. It's like a bridge that

823
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: connects us. So for us, hunting is that connector so

824
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: then hunting becomes something really special. The cool thing is

825
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: is that we get to choose who were impacted by

826
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: so choose wisely, no matter how technologically advanced hunting gets.

827
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: I hope we never lose what James has shown me

828
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: is still very much alive in North American hunting, a

829
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: lifestyle dedicated to craft, a pursuit of true woodsmanship for

830
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: the region, and the nurturing of an ageless and adventure

831
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 1: a spirit that does not lose its seal. Hey, long

832
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: live the beast, long live the hunt, and long live

833
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: our timeless friendships. M