WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 042322 The Execution of Patrick Lyoya (Part 1)

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am your

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<v Speaker 1>host rams this joh And.

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<v Speaker 2>In case you didn't know, I can go by the

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<v Speaker 2>name q War.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes indeed, and be sure to stick around radios because

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<v Speaker 1>we've got a lot to talk about this show. As

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the show, we talk about issues that are

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<v Speaker 1>important to the Black community as well as non black communities.

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<v Speaker 1>We do our best to try to find a way

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<v Speaker 1>to be better brothers and sisters to each other in

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<v Speaker 1>this country. Sometimes, unfortunately, that means that we have to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with some more challenging subjects, and today we are

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<v Speaker 1>going to deal with a couple of those. One in

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<v Speaker 1>particular has to do with a man named Patrick Leoya.

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<v Speaker 1>We didn't cover his story last week because we wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to give it a little bit of time for reasons

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get into, but we will be discussing his execution

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<v Speaker 1>style death in the state of Detroit and discussing where

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<v Speaker 1>we go from here. A little later in the show,

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<v Speaker 1>we're also going to talk about the criminal justice system

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<v Speaker 1>and how it tends to mistreat black people and brown

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<v Speaker 1>people in this country, and we have one such example,

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<v Speaker 1>a man by the name of Daryl Howard. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to examine his situation a bit and just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>give you some insight into what we know to be

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<v Speaker 1>true but you may not. We're going to spend a

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<v Speaker 1>little time talking about the first African American umpire in

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<v Speaker 1>Major League Baseball, a man by the name of emmittt Ashford,

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<v Speaker 1>for a way black history fact. And we're also going

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss a movie that I was able to watch

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<v Speaker 1>recently that I would love for you to watch. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell you a little bit more about it in our

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<v Speaker 1>bah Ba segment. That is Baba Become a Better Ally,

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<v Speaker 1>So be sure to stick around for that as well,

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<v Speaker 1>because it is definitely an insightful movie. It's called Who

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<v Speaker 1>We Are, So a lot to stick around for today,

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<v Speaker 1>so be sure to stay tuned. But first and foremost,

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<v Speaker 1>like we always do it, this time, que with your permission,

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<v Speaker 1>can we jump into some ebony excellence?

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<v Speaker 2>Shall we Wishall?

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<v Speaker 1>All right? So this is a weird one, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was a story that I loved. Okay, it's not weird,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just unusual for our ebony excellence, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>it fits. I love this story. So this comes from

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<v Speaker 1>fijisun dot com and a few other sources. Washington Post

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth and so on. This is just the

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<v Speaker 1>article I like the most. Meryl Pittman Cooper Age one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and one had a distinguished career as one of

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<v Speaker 1>the first black trolley car drivers in Philadelphia and a

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<v Speaker 1>powerful leader in the Union. But when he was a

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<v Speaker 1>teenager during segregation in the nineteen thirties, his single mother

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<v Speaker 1>was two poor to pay school tuition. Nineteen thirty eighty,

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<v Speaker 1>just finished his junior year of high school at Stora College,

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<v Speaker 1>a boarding school founded after the Civil War that initially

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<v Speaker 1>educated formerly enslaved children. Mister Cooper said he realized his mother,

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<v Speaker 1>who worked as a living housekeeper, couldn't afford to make

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<v Speaker 1>the final tuition payment for a senior year. He took

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<v Speaker 1>a job at the women's apparel store in Philadelphia to

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<v Speaker 1>help pay bills, and then he was hired in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>forty five as a city trolley car operator, and he

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<v Speaker 1>says it was tough when he first started. He remembers

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<v Speaker 1>the racism he endured. He says, quote, I wouldn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to repeat some of the things people said to me

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<v Speaker 1>when they saw me operating the trolley. Right. He goes

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<v Speaker 1>on to say, we had to have the National Guard

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<v Speaker 1>on board to keep the peace. But he was proud

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<v Speaker 1>of his career. However, there was always one thing that

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<v Speaker 1>bothered him. He wished he had graduated from high school

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<v Speaker 1>and received his diploma. Well eighty four years later, he

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<v Speaker 1>has been finally able to realize his long held wish.

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<v Speaker 1>His family arranged his surprise graduation ceremony in his honor

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<v Speaker 1>March nineteenth at a hotel in Jersey City. Mister Cooper's

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<v Speaker 1>son in law, Rod Beckernick, is a retired social studies

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<v Speaker 1>teacher who heard mister Cooper talk about the difficulty of

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<v Speaker 1>getting an education as a black teen in the nineteen thirties.

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<v Speaker 1>He decided it was long past time his father in

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<v Speaker 1>law received the diploma he'd missed when he dropped out

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<v Speaker 1>just before his senior year. So I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>shout that story out as a heartwarming story. And we

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<v Speaker 1>love those two every so often. I do believe that

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<v Speaker 1>is an example of ebony excellence, even at one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and one years. Now, on to heavier things. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you're listening, we really did put this off. So I'll

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<v Speaker 1>ask you, have you been able to digest properly this

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<v Speaker 1>Patrick Leoya story?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that there's a such thing as a FAIRCT.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm past the point of being able to reconcile things

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<v Speaker 2>like this. There's no point where after either the video

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<v Speaker 2>or the story, where enough time passes where I'm like okay,

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<v Speaker 2>now I'm okay. There's like there's no moving on anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Just the frequency, the gravity, the impunity of it all.

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<v Speaker 2>It's impossible to at the grievance. It's not a grievance period.

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<v Speaker 2>It's almost constant now, you know what I mean. Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like we heal and we move on, like no,

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<v Speaker 2>You'll still be hurting and processing the last one. And then,

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<v Speaker 2>as you know in our text thread, in our inbox,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a story of five more, ten more, a dozen more.

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<v Speaker 2>We can't fit them all in our shows. That's sad. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have enough space to talk about the number

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<v Speaker 2>of these types of stories that we have to try

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<v Speaker 2>to digest. But I have indigestion with regards.

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<v Speaker 1>To it now.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't get to a point where it ever settles.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, said man, that was visual, and as someone who

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<v Speaker 1>has to processes say with you very much accurate. I

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<v Speaker 1>do want to offer this though we stated this on

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<v Speaker 1>the show before. We decided early on You and I.

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<v Speaker 1>We decided when we were making this show in its

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<v Speaker 1>early days, that we did not want to become desensitized

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<v Speaker 1>to black trauma, to black death, to harm being done

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<v Speaker 1>to black bodies. And so we instituted a rotation for

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<v Speaker 1>stories where I'll read a story and I'll watch a video.

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<v Speaker 1>These videos oftentimes the end in death of black people,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's very, very heavy. I'm not going to speak

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<v Speaker 1>for all black people. I'm just going to speak for Ramses.

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<v Speaker 1>I am a human being with a beating heart, and

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<v Speaker 1>I have feelings. So if you can relate to any

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<v Speaker 1>of those, then you might have some insight into how

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<v Speaker 1>this feels. Right. So for me to see anyone and

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<v Speaker 1>be harmed, it's like, I don't celebrate that. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>the sort of person that goes hunting and in the

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<v Speaker 1>lives of animals because you know, for no reason. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I get that some people got to eat that way

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, but it's not my thing. But it's a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit heavier when the person is black, because then

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<v Speaker 1>it feels a little bit more personal, it feels a

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<v Speaker 1>little closer to our doorstep. And so we instituted this

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<v Speaker 1>rotation so that we could deal with these stories without

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<v Speaker 1>overwhelming ourselves and without you know, there's been this big

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<v Speaker 1>push in recent years to protect your mental health, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and so this was one of the steps that we

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<v Speaker 1>tried to implement in producing the show for you guys

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<v Speaker 1>every week. So this one, I know for a fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I put it off to the very last minute. I

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<v Speaker 1>knew it was there. I just didn't want to watch

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<v Speaker 1>the video. I just didn't. I just didn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>see it. I heard that Patrick was shot in the

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<v Speaker 1>back of his head and that felt different. And here

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<v Speaker 1>we are, and now I have to talk about it,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I respect and understand whatever whatever, however deeply

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<v Speaker 1>you have dived into this because I recognize the gravity

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<v Speaker 1>of it. But this one was my turn of of course,

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<v Speaker 1>as you know you and so here we are now.

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to mention that some of my readings

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<v Speaker 1>today come from the Detroit Free Press, that the Detroit

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<v Speaker 1>Free Press is a black owned newspaper, like the Atlanta

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<v Speaker 1>Black Star, like the Grio. Some of our sources we

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<v Speaker 1>just pulled from black sources because this is the place

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<v Speaker 1>for that, and a lot of times they'll tell the

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<v Speaker 1>story in the way that we really need to hear

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<v Speaker 1>it and to share it with the listener you, so

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<v Speaker 1>I'll begin. A black man, faced down on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>was fatally shot in the back of the head by

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<v Speaker 1>a Grand Rapids police officer the violent climax of a

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<v Speaker 1>traffic stop, refootchase, and struggle over a stun gun, according

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<v Speaker 1>to videos of the April fourth incident released Wednesday. The

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<v Speaker 1>release by Grand Rapids police spark renewed protests and calls

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<v Speaker 1>for justice Wednesday, as state and state officials promised to

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<v Speaker 1>full investigation. It comes in the wake of other police

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<v Speaker 1>involved shootings in Grand Rapids. The video released Wednesday includes

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<v Speaker 1>footage from the unnamed officer's body camera, which was deactivated

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<v Speaker 1>shortly after the officer told the suspect, twenty six year

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<v Speaker 1>old Congolese refugee Patrick Leoya, to quote let go of

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<v Speaker 1>the taser. End quote. The video, collection of dash cam footage,

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<v Speaker 1>bodycam footage, and a home security camera and a cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone video, shows the unnamed officer pulling over Lioya and

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<v Speaker 1>a passenger for a quote license plate that doesn't match

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<v Speaker 1>the car Quoteleoya gets out of the car and the

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<v Speaker 1>officer gets out and tells him to get back in

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<v Speaker 1>the car. The officer asks for his driver's license and

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<v Speaker 1>then asks whether Lioya speaks English. Elia then appears to

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<v Speaker 1>run around the car. The officer chases and tackles him

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<v Speaker 1>to the ground on the front lawn of a house.

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<v Speaker 1>They struggle, and the officer can be heard yelling to

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<v Speaker 1>Lioya stop and let go of the taser. After about

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seconds, the officer is lying on top of Lioya,

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<v Speaker 1>who's face down on the ground. The officer, still yelling

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<v Speaker 1>for Lioya to let go of the taser, proceeds to

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<v Speaker 1>shoot him. Leoya is shot in the head. Police Chief

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<v Speaker 1>Eric Winstrom confirmed. Winstrom said the taser was deployed twice

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<v Speaker 1>but did not make contact. Okay, now, I recognize that

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<v Speaker 1>if you're hearing our voices today, and we do appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>every listener, everybody that has a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>moral compass in their heart and they want to do right,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're taking the time out as you're doing right now,

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<v Speaker 1>to listen to our voices and try to become a

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<v Speaker 1>better person for your brothers and sisters. You know that

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<v Speaker 1>you share this country with This is a this is

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<v Speaker 1>a this one feels different to me, and I know

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<v Speaker 1>that the police will always have an excuse, right, And

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<v Speaker 1>I've said this many times on the show. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>for those of you who maybe you're on the fence,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you're in the gray area, or maybe you have

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<v Speaker 1>to have really important conversations with people who I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like the police are justified. You know, there are people

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<v Speaker 1>who do their best to try to find the justification

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<v Speaker 1>in the police's actions. There's no objection, there's no objectivity,

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 1>if you will, right, They are trying to find out

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<v Speaker 1>who did what wrong to justify what the police did. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>he shouldn't have did this, he shouldn't have ran, he

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't you know whatever. So as I do, I'll break

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<v Speaker 1>this down how I see these things happen. Okay, Now

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<v Speaker 1>this is a refugee. So let's say he's not aware

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<v Speaker 1>the extent of police violence in this country. Let's say

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't grow up in a place like Detroit, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>or a place like Compton, where I'm from. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>cues from Detroit shout out to the mon So he

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been taught from a young age to fear the police.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, many of you listening might think, well, no,

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<v Speaker 1>the police are the good guys. You know, why would

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<v Speaker 1>anybody fear the police? You know, there are parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the country where the police don't really behave like across

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<v Speaker 1>the board in a way that makes you feel like

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<v Speaker 1>they're there to protect you. At least. That was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of my interactions with the police in my nearly

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<v Speaker 1>forty years of living. In that time, I've learned that police.

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen police rob people. I've seen police beat people up,

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<v Speaker 1>not even take them to jail, just beat them up

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<v Speaker 1>and leave them there. I saw that happen. These eyes

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<v Speaker 1>saw it happen. I've learned, obviously doing this type of

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<v Speaker 1>show and just kind of being a conscious black man

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<v Speaker 1>with black children to raise black sons, specifically, that it

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<v Speaker 1>is possible and legal for police to lie to you

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<v Speaker 1>when they interrogate you. So the police can say to you, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, we have your DNA at the scene.

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 1>So if you confess to the crime that you may

0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 1>or may not have committed. But let's say in this example,

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 1>you didn't committed but if you if you confess, I

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.959
<v Speaker 1>can make it easier on you. It's legal for them

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>to lie to you and say things like that, oh,

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.520
<v Speaker 1>we can you know, do whatever, and make it, make

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>it easier on you. But then what happens is you

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 1>confess to a crime that you didn't commit and it's

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 1>all because the police officers did that. So rather than

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 1>committing being committed to finding the truth, this is a

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.960
<v Speaker 1>legal thing that happens all too often. You know, if

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 1>you don't believe my words here, please look up and

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 1>follow the Equal Justice Initiative. A man named Brian Stevenson.

0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 1>He's a person that I look up to very much,

0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 1>h And he's a person that fights to overturn wrongful

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>convictions using DNA evidence or whatever you mean, legal means

0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 1>that he can and obviously a success rate is very high,

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 1>which is how he's known for doing this. And overwhelmingly

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 1>the people that are beneficiaries of his services and those

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Equal Justice Initiative are black or brown and

0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>overwhelmingly poor. And so what we're looking at is a

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>problem with policing, with confessions and so forth. But more

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>times than I've seen the police be the good guys,

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I've seen them be the bad guys in my actual

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 1>lived life. I'm not talking about in TV. I'm not

0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>talking about in videos, you know, because I do respect

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 1>the fact that lots of police do lots of good work.

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I have to say that, as many people as might

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 1>get mad at me for saying that there are lots

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>of police officers do lots of good work, I'll see

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>that entirely. But I don't understand, and I don't know

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:50.920
<v Speaker 1>that I ever will how the police get to be

0:15:53.160 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the heroes and they always fear for their life? Right?

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Are you that brave? Or are you not that braid?

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:11.640
<v Speaker 1>You know? Are you afraid? I remember reading a story,

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and this was some time ago, so my details a

0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 1>little hazy, but it was a person was shot and

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 1>killed by an officer, and the officer had shot the

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>person's hands right or or hand or something like this,

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and I remember it and when, uh, the officer had

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to like explain what had happened. Actually, I'm not even

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 1>sure that the person died, but either way, the officer

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>shot to him, okay, and it shot the person's hand

0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 1>through the hand. The officer was able to suggest that, well,

0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I shot through the hand because the person was trying

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.199
<v Speaker 1>to grab for my gun, right, And if that's the

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 1>end of the story, that makes perfect sense. Off you're

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to grab the officer's gun. The officer needs to

0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 1>take action, discharge the weapon. Boom, problem solved, right, protect

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the officer's life at all costs, right, This is kind

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.639
<v Speaker 1>of the way that works. That's kind of one of

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.680
<v Speaker 1>the protections you're afforded if you sign up to become

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:25.159
<v Speaker 1>a police officer, that your life matters more than everyone else's.

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 1>But the person who was shot, it was either that

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.080
<v Speaker 1>person or their family. I don't remember the details exactly,

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 1>but that person or their family was saying, like, your

0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>instinct is to try to keep the weapon from being

0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 1>pointed directly at you, because you know that once that

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 1>reapon is raised raised, rather that it spells the end

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>of your life. You know what I mean, I'm going

0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.399
<v Speaker 1>to get shot, So you will reach out your hands

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 1>and try to keep the weapon from going all the

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>way up, you know, try to block it. This is

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of an instinctive thing, right, And so they were

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to say no, this person wasn't trying to grab

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 1>the gun, take it away from the officer, turn it around,

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.879
<v Speaker 1>grip the gun, and then discharge the weapon in the

0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 1>officer's direction. This person was simply trying to save his

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 1>own life, which anything with a nervous system does and

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 1>in theory should be allowed to do. Right. So this taser,

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:40.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know all the details yet. I

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 1>did wait to try to wait for more things to

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>come out, but this one might take a while. A

0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of these do. But that taser. When they say, like,

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, the officer said he was grabbing for his taser,

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.160
<v Speaker 1>the way that story hits the public is like, well,

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.960
<v Speaker 1>this Congolese refugee who was running away from the officer

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 1>decided that he was going to get the taser tase

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 1>the officer, and therefore the officer was in danger. So

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the officer had every right to shoot the man in

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the back of the head, right. I want to add

0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 1>to that. Tasers are supposed to be non lethal. So

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:30.159
<v Speaker 1>if someone does get your taser, officer, you know, we

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know the officer's name here, but if someone does

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.919
<v Speaker 1>get your taser, again, a non lethal weapon. This is

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:37.840
<v Speaker 1>why you have it as an alternative to your gun.

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Someone does get your taser, the understanding there is that

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:47.120
<v Speaker 1>that device is not going to end a life, right,

0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 1>So fearing for your life doesn't really make sense to me,

0:19:53.880 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, based on you know those details. Right. Furthermore,

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>if this man has the taser. The taser went off twice.

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.960
<v Speaker 1>No one was electrocuted. And you're wrestling with this person.

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>He's face down, You're on top of his body, and you're,

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I guess tired of wrestling with him because it's been

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 1>a while. Shooting someone in the back of the head.

0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 1>That sounds very gruesome, and you know the video, it's

0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 1>very sad because you see these two forms moving back

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 1>and forth, struggling. Looks like a life and death struggle.

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.919
<v Speaker 1>I'd imagine that for Patrick Leoya, he probably thought that

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:49.280
<v Speaker 1>it was, which is probably why he ran and all

0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.560
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, the gun goes off and then he

0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 1>stops moving and the life is extinguished. And around here

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:05.480
<v Speaker 1>we think life is precious. We feel like we have

0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>to say specifically that black life is precious, because there

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:12.760
<v Speaker 1>are lots of things in the world to teach us

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.680
<v Speaker 1>that black life is not precious. You know, a lot

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.080
<v Speaker 1>of what we talk about on this show is ways

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 1>that this country at least shows us that black life

0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.399
<v Speaker 1>is not precious. And so we use this forum to

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.199
<v Speaker 1>affirm that for ourselves and for our tribe, and we

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:35.479
<v Speaker 1>use this forum to bolster our relationships with the other tribes.

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 1>If you will with our less melanated brothers and sisters.

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.320
<v Speaker 1>We recognize that we were the first men. We recognize that,

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:49.399
<v Speaker 1>as a result, all men are our children, and as

0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:51.320
<v Speaker 1>a result of that, we recognize that we love them

0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.199
<v Speaker 1>even when they're wrong. So if you're listening to this

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.879
<v Speaker 1>show and you might not be black, we love you,

0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>and there's forgiveness built into the narrative, at least on

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.680
<v Speaker 1>civic cipher, because you know it's okay to be wrong

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 1>provided that you're moving in the right direction. I've talked

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 1>at length about why people run. You know, people run

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>because they're scared. So even if this guy didn't grow

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.800
<v Speaker 1>up in the United States, just ran because the police

0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>officer was maybe asking questions, he didn't understand, he didn't

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 1>know what was up, didn't know what to expect. You know,

0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 1>you pick any animal in nature, pick any animal in

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 1>nature scared, and if it doesn't fight you, it'll run. Right.

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 1>That should never be a death sentence because we're dealing

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 1>with human beings. We can figure stuff out later, and

0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 1>nothing is ever that important. Now, I got about a minute,

0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.400
<v Speaker 1>and I do want to get your thoughts too, So

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 1>jump in right here and let me know how this

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 1>feels to you.

0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever seen a gun pointed at an animal?

0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:11.199
<v Speaker 1>I believe I have.

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So there's no you can't tell a dog or

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:18.920
<v Speaker 2>a lion or whatever, hey.

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 1>This is a gun. Yeah, they don't get it.

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>But if you point one at an animal, they understand

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 2>to be afraid. They understand that something's up.

0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:36.879
<v Speaker 2>I remember the first time I saw this happened. My

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 2>neighbor had a pit bull, and he didn't go to

0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the lengths that he needed to to make sure that

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the dog didn't get out in a place where it

0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>could harm people. So very often, his very vicious pit bull.

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Because it's not just the fact that it was a

0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>pit bull, this dog was trained to be aggressive. It

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:01.399
<v Speaker 2>would get out and people would have to call the

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>cops to keep their kids from being killed by this dog.

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, this man loved this dog very much, so

0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:10.800
<v Speaker 2>it did not behave to him the way that it

0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.679
<v Speaker 2>would to a potential intruder or any stranger that didn't

0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 2>live at his house. I remember when I was a kid,

0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.919
<v Speaker 2>the cops came and they drew their guns, and this

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>very aggressive, very vicious dog became very docile and very

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>passive and very scared because even as a dog, it

0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.560
<v Speaker 2>understood that thing that that man has, that it's pointing

0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:35.960
<v Speaker 2>at me, could kill me. So imagine a person that

0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:42.040
<v Speaker 2>absolutely knows better. Of course, it's not even fight or

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:45.399
<v Speaker 2>flight at that point. In most cases, it's just flight.

0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know what, I think that that's what we

0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:52.679
<v Speaker 1>saw when we saw that video, and I get the

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 1>feeling we might end up talking about this one a

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>little bit more, but we did have to broach the subject.

0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:00.879
<v Speaker 1>Forgive us for taking an extra week, but hopefully now

0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 1>you understand why