Speaker 1: Look mad, oh, I see you? Why why? And look
Speaker 1: over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness ding dong
Speaker 1: culture racist calling Matt. But I feel have a feeling.
Speaker 1: I know what you want to talk about. What do
Speaker 1: you think I want to talk about? Well, Bowen actually tests.
Speaker 1: He didn't test me. Actually I believe it actually was
Speaker 1: a little bit of a test. It was also a
Speaker 1: text because a test can be attacked. It's actually a
Speaker 1: leal culture number forty nine attacked, can be attacked. And
Speaker 1: I said to me and vice versa, it's it's actually
Speaker 1: a verse. It's a verse situation. Um, like Zachary Quinto maybe, um,
Speaker 1: just kidding, don't don't just just just throwing it out
Speaker 1: there as a possibility. Um, he has top energy. To me, actually,
Speaker 1: this can all be cut. I think we keep this anyway.
Speaker 1: I think that we keep this just throwing it out there. Um,
Speaker 1: everyone should be very us. Were all adults anyway? Were
Speaker 1: all it's actually a roller culture number ninety nine, everyone
Speaker 1: at all? Right, So the text was are you watching
Speaker 1: selling Sunset? And I had to say I had been
Speaker 1: made it through some part of the first season, but
Speaker 1: wasn't as excited as Bowen seemed to be. Bowen Yang.
Speaker 1: You are deep into selling Sunset. Well, I am not
Speaker 1: even that deep. I mean, there's some folks out there
Speaker 1: who have. I was talking to Mrs Rose Dammio. She
Speaker 1: had been to the whole all three seasons in one weekend, um,
Speaker 1: and we were we were sort of sharing thoughts, but
Speaker 1: I was I had put this out last week. I
Speaker 1: was asking people, is it worth it. I'm always suspicious
Speaker 1: of these shows that are just all white, that these
Speaker 1: reality shows that have all wait casts. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the value in this is. I don't particularly care
Speaker 1: for real estate um or for properties. You think you don't,
Speaker 1: you think you don't, and then I mean, but this,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know if it's good or about that.
Speaker 1: The show sort of like versus you. There's that word again,
Speaker 1: versus you in the langue and like the truly in
Speaker 1: sort of the world of realists. And now I'm just
Speaker 1: now I'm paying attention to the counters and the finishes
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Oh yeah, I didn't even really
Speaker 1: know what staging meant until now. I'm not happy that
Speaker 1: I do, but I have to say it is like
Speaker 1: that's actually my wo The whole show lulls you in
Speaker 1: even with the drama, because the first like five episodes
Speaker 1: of season one, I would say, I'm just like, I
Speaker 1: don't really I'm just doing the dishes as I watched this,
Speaker 1: I'm not really invested. I'm not like yeah, on the
Speaker 1: edge of my seat. And then all the threads sort
Speaker 1: of come together by the last two episodes in the
Speaker 1: first season and then you're like, Okay, now we're now
Speaker 1: We're off to the races. It's sort of like mad
Speaker 1: Men in that way, right, So Son of So Selling
Speaker 1: Sunset is a lot like it's the mad Men of
Speaker 1: Dumb the Hills offshoot reality shows, which this very much is.
Speaker 1: Even the fonts how they introduced the character really give
Speaker 1: me the Hills, and like, I feel like this is
Speaker 1: like if the Hills girls grew up and like really
Speaker 1: engaged in their job and like really good at their job.
Speaker 1: If it was all Whitneys, if it was all Whitney's
Speaker 1: on the Hill, if it was nine whitney Ports and
Speaker 1: some of them sort of did fun things with their hair,
Speaker 1: and they all have to sit in a like open
Speaker 1: office plan, which I love their office. It's really fun. Also, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I would suck the Twins would have would let both
Speaker 1: the twins take me, probably at the same time. And
Speaker 1: that's just my journey. You don't have you don't have
Speaker 1: to agree, you do have to respect. And this is
Speaker 1: what I'll say, here's how I'm feeling about the girls.
Speaker 1: Christine Quinn could sell me a migraine for a half
Speaker 1: a million dollars. I would be too scared to say. Now.
Speaker 1: She is the show. She is the show. If Christine
Speaker 1: Quinn asked me do you have dementia? I would say, yes,
Speaker 1: I do have dementia. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is this is a reference on the show. I mean
Speaker 1: she so so she and chrishll have this big fight
Speaker 1: at the end of season one. She she takes Chris
Speaker 1: shell up on um for selectively forgetting something that she
Speaker 1: had said, and then Christine keeps saying the line do
Speaker 1: you have dementia? Which is kind of kind of wild
Speaker 1: and but if if Christine, if if I was confronted
Speaker 1: with that line of questioning, I would say yes, just everyone,
Speaker 1: I want you to imagine your worst bully from childhood
Speaker 1: looking you in the eyes, and they're the hottest they've
Speaker 1: ever looked, and they keep yelling at you. Do you
Speaker 1: have dementia. That's sort of the reality programming that Bowen
Speaker 1: and I are hashtag standing right now. Not only that,
Speaker 1: but if your childhood bully, if your high school bully
Speaker 1: was an a fab drag queen like fully who, like
Speaker 1: I told you this, man, I think she is like
Speaker 1: an echo of Regina George. Oh yeah, you pointed out
Speaker 1: that made a lot of sense when you pointed out
Speaker 1: Bone was saying that Regina George might have been a
Speaker 1: formative character in Christine Quinn's life. Well, the way that
Speaker 1: you and I talk about how Rachel McAdams as Regina
Speaker 1: George has influenced the whole generation of blonde women who
Speaker 1: are cruel like I, I think I think Christine is
Speaker 1: is has sort of inherited that um that's sort of existence.
Speaker 1: And I think, so it's so wonderful. And Christine, here's
Speaker 1: the thing. She's funny, she's smart, and she is competent,
Speaker 1: like I believe her to be a good agent. I
Speaker 1: don't Chrischelle, Heather, I don't. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: I watched the show and I watched them sort of
Speaker 1: do their showings, and I'm like, Krishell, why are you
Speaker 1: so nervous? Yeah, well, I'll tell you so uncomfortable doing this,
Speaker 1: Krishell to me, I can't. Here's the thing about Krischelle.
Speaker 1: When you are someone like Krischell and you walk into
Speaker 1: Christine's space, you actually do have to earn Christine's yes,
Speaker 1: And the way that you don't earn her respect is
Speaker 1: by cowering around, like sort of being nervous around her.
Speaker 1: When someone comes in the room and you go, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I have to go get a drink. You're you're being
Speaker 1: dramatic and be you are like running away from conflict.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you some of my Christine, who
Speaker 1: is a formidable reality television show villain, is not going
Speaker 1: to respect that. And it's gonna be harder for you
Speaker 1: if you keep creating these problems for yourself by not
Speaker 1: standing up and being a tough bitch in a in
Speaker 1: a workplace with tough bitches and the rest of them.
Speaker 1: Sort of I'm like on the fence about like Heather,
Speaker 1: I feel like has like um hold on energy, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, girl, what's happening here? I agree? I feel
Speaker 1: like Christine Maya are are sort of like that. I
Speaker 1: see them sort of uh excelling in that environment. And
Speaker 1: and I believe them to be good agents. Mary as well.
Speaker 1: All I like Mary. I can't believe her boyfriend can't
Speaker 1: believe Mary's born. We can't. We can't really talk about Romaine.
Speaker 1: I don't. It's too it's it's it's a lot, but
Speaker 1: it's fraud, it's fraught. I think that um cryschell. Fran
Speaker 1: Harada pointed this out. Chrystell As as an actress, she
Speaker 1: needs people to like her and that's why she keeps crumbling.
Speaker 1: And with Christine, she doesn't give a funk what anyone thinks.
Speaker 1: This is who I am actually, and it doesn't end
Speaker 1: like and it's just it's it's truly an embodiment of confidence,
Speaker 1: and it's so alluring. It's you're riveted, You're like, I
Speaker 1: want to like she's the star, Like let's let's fix
Speaker 1: on her. The way that her stepping out of a
Speaker 1: vehicle is a cinematic moment just whenever you see whenever
Speaker 1: they're talking about Christine, and then they cut to a
Speaker 1: scene of just legs entering like a luxury vehicle and
Speaker 1: the song the songs come in. It literally we were
Speaker 1: said we could we could like like improvised songs that
Speaker 1: would play. It's like you better hurry up because the
Speaker 1: crocs are coming in you. You can't stand the heat.
Speaker 1: Like it's just like she's just like really like she
Speaker 1: should put out a single? Should put she should put
Speaker 1: out a single? And that, actually, interestingly enough, is quite
Speaker 1: a good segue into what I have to say. Is
Speaker 1: our are true like distinguished guests. I am so excited.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited they're here. Um, I mean just this
Speaker 1: year alone, the the the work has been stellar. I
Speaker 1: mean where would where think about think about where where
Speaker 1: we would be without music this year? My life would
Speaker 1: be so much worse without music this year, specifically music
Speaker 1: music specifically. I was going to say our our guests
Speaker 1: contributions to the musical canon, and we don't say that lightly, okay,
Speaker 1: because it is canon? And also can I say something
Speaker 1: it was it was late last year or maybe earlier
Speaker 1: this year when my concept of time has gone out
Speaker 1: the window. But who's who's been standing lose you to
Speaker 1: love me from the beginning, who's been standing from the beginning,
Speaker 1: Matt Rodgers And you've been standing where the beginning? Love
Speaker 1: rare and our our our our lovely friend Leland. I mean,
Speaker 1: what a beautiful sort of convergence of talent there um.
Speaker 1: I mean Selena. Selena not only has an army of
Speaker 1: gays that are her fans, she's got an army of
Speaker 1: gays behind the scenes. And the queers are are they
Speaker 1: know that to combine with Selena is something special. Yes,
Speaker 1: And our guests is actually rocking our shirt that says
Speaker 1: Queers Together and that's actually an early front runner for
Speaker 1: title of m early front runner, Matt, why don't you
Speaker 1: go through the credits. I would be pleased to go
Speaker 1: through their credits. So everyone just in two thousand twenty alone,
Speaker 1: our guest has written songs on Selena Gomez is rare.
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga's Chromatica. Have you ever heard of it? I've
Speaker 1: been like stomping the fields on my hikes lately to Chromatica.
Speaker 1: Romatica an amazing workout album if you have. If you didn't, well,
Speaker 1: I've been hiking the Griffith Park and it's Chromatica actually
Speaker 1: has been driving me. One of my personal favorite albums
Speaker 1: of the year, Gaslighter Do Alipa's Future Nostalgia. Literally, you
Speaker 1: could put the fucking album of the Year Grammy, like
Speaker 1: put together with all of this for me and from
Speaker 1: my point of view anyway, and the aces under my
Speaker 1: influence just to name a few, including one of the
Speaker 1: songs he wrote was of Course you Lose You to
Speaker 1: Love Me, which I just mentioned before, which was number
Speaker 1: one hit on the Billboard, which is not for nothing
Speaker 1: and achievement. They also wrote I Am I Am America
Speaker 1: with Sia Diamond who we know Diamond at Yes at
Speaker 1: this gala. Yes we met her at the human rights gala.
Speaker 1: They she had performed when m Bowen received his Visibility Awards.
Speaker 1: She is unbelievable, also not for nothing, but contributed songs
Speaker 1: to thank you. Next the Jonas Brothers Happiness Begins, Camilla, Caabaos, Romance,
Speaker 1: Kesho's High Road, like all truly unbelievable albums. And I
Speaker 1: have to say, like even going back, like I have
Speaker 1: songs to bring up that I've been my jams on
Speaker 1: older albums. He worked with Kelly on a song that
Speaker 1: I love and I want to talk about UM and yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so they're excited to um but UM. Basically, this
Speaker 1: is an activist singer songwriter extraordinaire. I always love to
Speaker 1: have people that have actually made contributions to the culture.
Speaker 1: And this is one of those people. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I'm supposed to talk yet, but that's too hard
Speaker 1: not to laugh at that. So well that well, thank
Speaker 1: you laughing. And the person who that lifel musical laughter
Speaker 1: belongs to is the one the only welcome to your ears, Justin,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: as you all know, I like message you or interact
Speaker 1: with you on the internet like at least twice a
Speaker 1: day because I'm I'm obsessed with both of you. So
Speaker 1: it's a we loved you honor to be here. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, we we don't lie when we say like
Speaker 1: you really have, like you are a part of our lives,
Speaker 1: like you have created so much of what we enjoy,
Speaker 1: what we consume. So this is so exciting for us
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Well, thank you, thank And it's
Speaker 1: so cool too for you guys to talk about everything
Speaker 1: that um I've worked on that came out this year,
Speaker 1: because not that I'm complaining, but so much gets brought
Speaker 1: back to like my my first couple of years of success.
Speaker 1: It's really cool to talk about the stuff that came
Speaker 1: out now because obviously with COVID and everything, I'm not
Speaker 1: like doing a thousand interviews. So it's nice to hear
Speaker 1: people talk about the Dixie Chicks and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's all totally um. I think we'll talk about this
Speaker 1: is this is just a concept that I am like
Speaker 1: fascinated with, just in terms of creative practice in general,
Speaker 1: because I was reading I was reading an interview if
Speaker 1: You're justin where you were talking about how the transition
Speaker 1: from being a vocalist yourself and and and being in
Speaker 1: this group and performing and touring was wonderful and gratifying
Speaker 1: and so great, but that you seem to be more
Speaker 1: suited towards helping other people writing to their voices, and
Speaker 1: that you just you just love the practice around writing
Speaker 1: for other people, which I know, like I don't know
Speaker 1: why I'm so like fixated on this. I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm like sort of like I always spot
Speaker 1: these people out. These people stand out to me anytime
Speaker 1: like they make that known. Like it takes like it
Speaker 1: takes a creative competence to say I am good at
Speaker 1: helping other people be creative. I think know for me,
Speaker 1: I was just it happened at the right time, and
Speaker 1: I mean like literal like my age. It was like
Speaker 1: happened at the right age, where like the band had
Speaker 1: been through so much fucking bullshit, like every industry cliche,
Speaker 1: have dropped from four record deals, and you know, obviously
Speaker 1: being a queer person and am person like people just
Speaker 1: saying to you, like emails that were sent to the
Speaker 1: whole record label like hey be less gay, or hey
Speaker 1: can we edit out this shot because your hand is
Speaker 1: moving too femininely, which is hysterical hand, your hand is
Speaker 1: moving gay and like, well you do know that shot
Speaker 1: the whole video in like gold glitter eyeshadow and the
Speaker 1: six inch heels, I don't really know. The hand isn't
Speaker 1: going to really help the situations too late. That sounds
Speaker 1: like a gay eraser. We can take to this. It's
Speaker 1: just kind of what it is, semi precious weapons. We
Speaker 1: should say. Yes, the band was called Signs of Weapons.
Speaker 1: Um fabulous glamrock situation, New York City based. We opened
Speaker 1: for Gaga, we opened for Cashow, We did a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of awesome ship But when the opportunity to try
Speaker 1: to write with and four other people showed up, I
Speaker 1: was like fuck it, Like what else do I have
Speaker 1: to lose? I've been dropped from all the record deals. Um,
Speaker 1: and then I discovered how beautiful it was. And I
Speaker 1: think because in my band, I was living my truth
Speaker 1: so boldly, um and like a definitely like heightened version
Speaker 1: of my truth. It was like hyper sex, hyper fem
Speaker 1: hyper everything. UM, still who I was, but it was
Speaker 1: like going for it that I think it really makes it.
Speaker 1: I have the skill set now to help other people
Speaker 1: go for whatever their truth is. And it has sadly
Speaker 1: got to be a glam rocker with a six inch
Speaker 1: heel collection, but it is digging into people's truths about
Speaker 1: whether it's like their breakup or something weirder than that
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And I just kind of found,
Speaker 1: um that it's like such an underrated thing to help
Speaker 1: other people tell their stories. I think we're also obsessed
Speaker 1: with telling our own ship, which is good too. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you've really found the emotion in pop like this
Speaker 1: is this is what? This is Something that I really
Speaker 1: respond to. Is I love emotional pop music. I love
Speaker 1: fun pop music. So many of your songs are so fun.
Speaker 1: But the reason I love Lose You to Love Me
Speaker 1: so much is because it really feels like Selena Gomez
Speaker 1: is truth and it really feels like it came from,
Speaker 1: you know, the belly of her particular beast, and I
Speaker 1: really I really responded to that and respected her um
Speaker 1: so much. Really with this whole album, which I actually
Speaker 1: have on vinyl um Yeah, and uh, it's really the
Speaker 1: album fucking slaps and that song, as I think the
Speaker 1: intro to that album was such a bold choice because
Speaker 1: it is a balad, you know it is. It is
Speaker 1: more emotional than stuff that we're accustomed to hearing from
Speaker 1: Selena Gomez. But I think it was really the right
Speaker 1: choice because you have to trust the audience that loves
Speaker 1: the artist, you know what I mean, like and I
Speaker 1: think that's what I think. That was a really really
Speaker 1: good choice of the first single, and what a success
Speaker 1: it was, well, and it was her first choice, that
Speaker 1: was it was really Selena is so amazing in so
Speaker 1: many ways. Uh, if she wants to at some point
Speaker 1: in life, she'd be the best A and R that
Speaker 1: there is. She here's the coolest song, She co writes
Speaker 1: the coolest songs, and she picks good for You was
Speaker 1: her putting her foot down from the last album Good
Speaker 1: for You. Good for You was her putting her the
Speaker 1: label loved it, but they just didn't think that was
Speaker 1: a single because radio wasn't that minimal at that point.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that sort of like mid tempo linear pop
Speaker 1: music was not a thing. But then it did go
Speaker 1: in that direction. Well, you know, I had to do
Speaker 1: what I had to do. We have someone here that
Speaker 1: had a little something to do with it. No, but
Speaker 1: it was Selena going, this is my first fucking single,
Speaker 1: going all right, let's see what happens. And then it
Speaker 1: was you know, number one on pop radio, and then
Speaker 1: the same thing, will Lose You to Love Me, not
Speaker 1: a typical first single, but also the whole idea of
Speaker 1: the one to punch of going with lose You to
Speaker 1: Love Me, and then surprised the next day there was
Speaker 1: look at her Now all Selena's idea too. So I'm
Speaker 1: very grateful to be in the room and be a
Speaker 1: part of the sun Rine process. But when it comes
Speaker 1: down to those choices and when it comes to Selena,
Speaker 1: it's all she has complete control of it and like
Speaker 1: tells people what is happening. It's really cool to watch. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's that. I I do just want to say
Speaker 1: how phenomenal look at her now? Is just then, I
Speaker 1: mean sort of if you want. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to just put out there and correct me if I'm wrong, justin.
Speaker 1: But like the chorus is basically wow, look at it now.
Speaker 1: It's it's so like it's so skeletal and like simple,
Speaker 1: and yet it like fucking like hits you like it.
Speaker 1: It hits the ear so well that you're like, wait this,
Speaker 1: there's there's just enough going on here. It's not like
Speaker 1: it's just it's just so well constructed and so stable
Speaker 1: with what it has. It's I don't know that that
Speaker 1: is so so fucking sweet, and I will I love
Speaker 1: that song so much. And when she told us that
Speaker 1: she's gonna do the one to punch, I was like,
Speaker 1: that's really really smart. But also I think look at it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, such a fucking smash and could
Speaker 1: go to number one on radio on its own and
Speaker 1: gave it its own life. But in terms of the storytelling,
Speaker 1: it was so smart, so like she was right in
Speaker 1: the long run. But as a songwriter, you want like
Speaker 1: all of your of course that it was she was,
Speaker 1: she was, she did the right thing. She was I
Speaker 1: think as an artist, like trying to see the forest
Speaker 1: for the trees there. And I actually really loved that
Speaker 1: both those songs were out because it made me more
Speaker 1: excited for the album, which I was going to speak
Speaker 1: a lot of different languages. And I would say, also,
Speaker 1: the thing about um look at It Now that I
Speaker 1: love is it is a song that is really telling
Speaker 1: a story, but the choruses is exactly what you're saying,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I also just love
Speaker 1: the lyric. Of course she was sad, she's glad, she
Speaker 1: thought a bullet to soak up the tears. But look
Speaker 1: at her Now, which is a perfect follow up to
Speaker 1: Lose You to Love Me. I didn't realize that storytelling
Speaker 1: that she was so intentional with that that you know
Speaker 1: it follows up directly from that song, you know. I
Speaker 1: always said, like, you know, people who were child stars
Speaker 1: or who got a moment of like random viral fame
Speaker 1: from whatever website they get viral on, they can have
Speaker 1: one hit or one moment or whatever it is. When
Speaker 1: there is when it happens again and again. It has
Speaker 1: to be because the artist is in charge of it
Speaker 1: and knows what they're doing, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like some kids randomly blow up on TikTok and have
Speaker 1: one hit. If that kid has fifteen hits, there's a reason,
Speaker 1: you know that it is that that person has that talent.
Speaker 1: So Selena coming from Disney, if there would have just
Speaker 1: been one hit, well she was famous on Disney and
Speaker 1: it just happened. Now there's been so many. You you
Speaker 1: know that it is because of her. It is because
Speaker 1: she is that good. Yeah, that's part of totally what
Speaker 1: do you make of artists where the assumption sometimes for
Speaker 1: an audience is while they couldn't have like masterminded this
Speaker 1: whole thing, they have a whole team behind them, Like
Speaker 1: like like where like how do you sort of place
Speaker 1: that power, in that control in anyone that you work with?
Speaker 1: You know, I get asked a tell, what doesn't it
Speaker 1: make you so mad that like you're the one like
Speaker 1: writing the songs and they get all the credit, and like, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm co writing the songs, but second
Speaker 1: of all, like it always takes a team. Someone has
Speaker 1: to be in charge, but it always takes a team.
Speaker 1: And if it's so funny, no one is furious that
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep didn't write and direct and star in her film.
Speaker 1: Yet people get furious that pop Stars had help and
Speaker 1: I don't. It's such an interesting Whitney Houston never wrote
Speaker 1: a song. She's a artist, and you can't say she's
Speaker 1: not exactly or like Dally Parton is one of the
Speaker 1: great American songwriters. But she also if she hears a
Speaker 1: song that somebody else wrote and she loves it, she
Speaker 1: will sing that fucking thing, you know. So it's I
Speaker 1: just have to laugh it off because people do get
Speaker 1: weird about it, But like, what are we gonna do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I did I and I did just want to
Speaker 1: like we definitely went through the credits. But I want
Speaker 1: people that might not be as familiar to just understand
Speaker 1: the breath of like your influence on music. So I
Speaker 1: want to list some artists that you've worked with. Britney Spears,
Speaker 1: Gwen Stefani, Lincoln par Kelly Clarkson, Who's My Girl, Selena Gomez,
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, d n C Kesha, who I've really been
Speaker 1: enjoying her last album actually lately, and I feel like
Speaker 1: people slept on um in real life, Fifth Harmony, Five
Speaker 1: Seconds of Summer, Arianna Gaga, of course, B Miller, and
Speaker 1: Fallout Boy, just to name a few. Obviously, in addition,
Speaker 1: to that is your girl, Julia Michael, who is your
Speaker 1: your partner? Yeah, but about like half of the songs
Speaker 1: I've ever written have been with with Julia. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: we once we met kind of, we just had this
Speaker 1: magical chemistry and wrote. I would say that for their
Speaker 1: like three years, I wrote like the songs I wrote
Speaker 1: I wrote with her. Um. And then obviously she became
Speaker 1: a pop star in her own right, um, and I
Speaker 1: had to keep working. So you know, I'm not about
Speaker 1: to go on tour again. So I so now there
Speaker 1: is a whole other chapter. Um, that stuff that I
Speaker 1: didn't do with Julia. But what fucking sucks. Obviously COVID
Speaker 1: sucks for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: that it sucks for me is that me and Julie
Speaker 1: a she wasn't gonna tour this year, and we were,
Speaker 1: we were already back in the studio. We did. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard Czara Larson's Love Me Land,
Speaker 1: but I think you would love it. It's a really
Speaker 1: fair song called love Me Land that me and Julia did,
Speaker 1: And me and Julie are about to go do a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of ship together and then obviously everything got
Speaker 1: shut down. But yeah, that's my girl. I mean hearing
Speaker 1: you talk about Julia the way that she's taken off
Speaker 1: who and she still managed to maintain this songwriting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's been spitting that play like among like the performance aspect,
Speaker 1: and it's good that she like knows her comfort, she
Speaker 1: knows her line in terms of like if she doesn't
Speaker 1: want to tour, then that's like fully her decision, which
Speaker 1: is like perfect, Like are you at this point and
Speaker 1: not to bring up seveny precious weapons again? But are
Speaker 1: you sort of I mean, was was that did at
Speaker 1: least such a terrible taste in your mouth that you
Speaker 1: just have no interest in anymore? Or I mean, are
Speaker 1: you open to it in the future. That's such a
Speaker 1: weird thing because the guys in the band were alsto
Speaker 1: really close. The drummer in the band works with me
Speaker 1: on a whole bunch of stuff. I'm currently making a
Speaker 1: queer Christmas album for a very very magical project that
Speaker 1: will be announced soon. Um, it's really exciting. It's it's
Speaker 1: no fucking joke. And the drummer from SPW is with
Speaker 1: me working on the whole thing, so we're all still
Speaker 1: super good it was just the experience of kind of
Speaker 1: what I went through and it all happened. You know,
Speaker 1: this was like spw's peak years, like two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight to two thousand and eleven twelve, and like you know,
Speaker 1: the ship that reporters would say about our band. They
Speaker 1: would lose their jobs now for the blatant homophobia that
Speaker 1: would be said and creative ship. But it was just
Speaker 1: kind of exhausted me. And this is going so well,
Speaker 1: I don't really want to funk with it, you know,
Speaker 1: And I'm finding that, um there are things I miss.
Speaker 1: I miss talking about the visual I miss talking about
Speaker 1: the live show our band. For the live show, we
Speaker 1: were not known for our songs, which is funny because
Speaker 1: now I'm a professional songwriter, but um so I missed that.
Speaker 1: But you know, I have artists signed to me now
Speaker 1: and we get to talk about their videos and talk
Speaker 1: about what the show might look like if you know,
Speaker 1: America ever gets this fucking ship together and we can
Speaker 1: all look for again. Um Or, Like I'm working on
Speaker 1: a bunch of film and TV stuff, which is super
Speaker 1: exciting because there's it's not just write the song and
Speaker 1: go home. There's a whole big conversation involved, so those
Speaker 1: things that I do miss from being an abandoned touring
Speaker 1: and performing, I'm finding ways to like scratch those itches
Speaker 1: in other places. So, um, just to talk about this
Speaker 1: year a little bit more. I have a couple of
Speaker 1: questions because you've truly worked on, I mean, several of
Speaker 1: my favorite albums this year. I mean just just even
Speaker 1: talking about Chromatica and Gaslighter and Future Nostalgia that's like
Speaker 1: so unbelievable. But I did want to ask about Chromatica
Speaker 1: specifically first, because you wrote nine one one. What intel
Speaker 1: did you have about the CHROMATICA truth to transition into?
Speaker 1: Like did you know that was happening when you heard it?
Speaker 1: What did you think? Like, what did that moment feel like?
Speaker 1: I wish there was a story to tell you. I
Speaker 1: had no part of that process. I wrote Alice and
Speaker 1: I went one with you know. It was like we
Speaker 1: we we did two days for the album and those
Speaker 1: were the two songs. And me and me and Gota
Speaker 1: go back years and years when be open for her
Speaker 1: her first couple of shows as Lady Gaga were opening
Speaker 1: from my band in New York. There's this really cool
Speaker 1: full circle for us to be together and write songs.
Speaker 1: You know, well we never wrote in the old days,
Speaker 1: so right together finally and um, but then you know,
Speaker 1: Stars Born happened because we wrote the songs before Starsborn
Speaker 1: came out, and so Stories Store is Born, Star Storis Bar,
Speaker 1: Stories and Barn happened. That's about. It's great great film,
Speaker 1: great film. Um And obviously you know the conversations about
Speaker 1: what was happening on CHROMATICA. We're not that they ended,
Speaker 1: but for me they did because I wrote the songs
Speaker 1: and then she went and did a you know, six
Speaker 1: month long promo tour for Stars Born. Um, so when
Speaker 1: I didn't hear I heard it. When you heard it,
Speaker 1: that's the first time. That was such a moment. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I remember listening to it the first time through it
Speaker 1: that moment, just like that collapse into that song and
Speaker 1: just how so it's it's such it's such a highlight
Speaker 1: of an album that is chocked full of highlights. So
Speaker 1: it's it's just I had to know, like what you
Speaker 1: felt when you heard that happen, like because it really
Speaker 1: does it just it rocket launches you into that next Well,
Speaker 1: I actually, to be honest, I didn't know what was
Speaker 1: even I just saw like ten thousand tweets of Carmatica
Speaker 1: two into nine one one. What the fund are they
Speaker 1: talking about? I don't even know what's happening. It was
Speaker 1: also to like a lot of the old school fans
Speaker 1: who either fell in love with us in New York
Speaker 1: at the same time or fell in love with my
Speaker 1: band because we were on tour with her. They were
Speaker 1: so excited that we were back together in some version. Um,
Speaker 1: and so they're all just tweeting directly at me or
Speaker 1: tagging me, and I'm like, what the funk are these
Speaker 1: kids talking about? UM? And so then I listened like
Speaker 1: it's mean, it's so good, and then to have it
Speaker 1: become like the meme of the year is pretty pretty fierce,
Speaker 1: pretty fierce literally incredible, and then um, so to totally
Speaker 1: shift gears musically. You also worked on gas Lighter, and
Speaker 1: you wrote so many great things on this on this album,
Speaker 1: like Texas Man Is is incredible. My favorite song I
Speaker 1: think is sleep at Night. I always love like I
Speaker 1: love a good fucking I love like a great pop song,
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to ask, like, what was it
Speaker 1: like to work on that with the icons that are
Speaker 1: the chicks, like you know, like it's like gay people
Speaker 1: who have the internet, we say icon a lot, but
Speaker 1: like they actually are like yeah, for no, for sure,
Speaker 1: I mean this is no no hyper no hyperbole. This
Speaker 1: they are it. All three of them though, like like
Speaker 1: you watch you go back and watch it up and sing,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they all had the way they all
Speaker 1: supported each other and Natalie and I mean, like you
Speaker 1: just that's that that isn't that that almost never happens
Speaker 1: that kind of like harmony and that support. It's it's
Speaker 1: so beautiful and inspiring. But yes, their icons. What was
Speaker 1: that like? Walking in the first day, which was also
Speaker 1: fabulous because as me and Teddy Geiger, who I don't
Speaker 1: know if you love, one of the greatest producers of
Speaker 1: our time, and she's just she came out as trans
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and so it's just like
Speaker 1: for you know these we all know that the chicks
Speaker 1: are really progressive. We like, we know that, but still
Speaker 1: their country queens, right, So to like have these country
Speaker 1: icons with me and you know, possibly the biggest trans
Speaker 1: music producer in the world, you know, um, pretty cool
Speaker 1: moment for the first day that we meet, and the
Speaker 1: first day we met was sleep at night so I
Speaker 1: mean that that song is so great and I just love,
Speaker 1: like I said, just it's so emotional and it's so
Speaker 1: and there's something about you know, you know, the song
Speaker 1: is beautifully written. And also Natalie mains voice. I mean,
Speaker 1: we talked about how you can feel everything she's gone
Speaker 1: through in her voice. The voices is pure heaven. And
Speaker 1: what was so fun too, is like so she's you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's an odd experience. You guys are writers,
Speaker 1: you understand like you sometimes you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: how if it works for you guys, but for me,
Speaker 1: a lot of times, you you write songs with someone,
Speaker 1: you just met them. There's no lunch beforehand, there's no anything.
Speaker 1: So it's like you just meet this person and I'm
Speaker 1: beyond starstruck. And my my intro to the Chicks is
Speaker 1: a little bit different than a lot of people. I
Speaker 1: was Patty Griffin obsessed in in the late nineties. Um
Speaker 1: so I saw her perform at like the B stage
Speaker 1: of Lila Fair and like nineties six or ninety seven
Speaker 1: or something. Patty Griffin, who if you don't know who
Speaker 1: she is, she's like kind of like the queen of
Speaker 1: new folk music. Americana just like Heaven, and the Chicks
Speaker 1: were obsessed with Patty and UM covered a couple of
Speaker 1: her songs, including Fly which would let him fly on
Speaker 1: out Fly, which was amazing song. And so I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's this country group covering Patty Griffin? And so then
Speaker 1: I fell in love with the Chicks that way. And
Speaker 1: so even though I found the Chicks in a different
Speaker 1: way than most people, I was still obsessed. And so
Speaker 1: you're meeting this person who's an icon, who I've loved
Speaker 1: for years, over twenty years, yeah, twenty years, and you
Speaker 1: just have to write a song for a second you meet.
Speaker 1: And obviously she was going through a lot of crazy
Speaker 1: things in her personal life. That's her story to tell,
Speaker 1: not mine, but she's been public about it so we
Speaker 1: can all we all know what's happening. And you know,
Speaker 1: we're just saying people say things, and my favorite thing
Speaker 1: to do in the sessions go whatever someone just said, Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's going in the song. Well that's kind of
Speaker 1: a mouthful. How do we fit it in to an
Speaker 1: actual melody and the lyric? And so those pre courses
Speaker 1: were just like taking direct words from her mouth and
Speaker 1: finding melodies for them, and the other ones can be
Speaker 1: like more poetic and whatever. But I love to find
Speaker 1: those lyrics in the song that are just like, no,
Speaker 1: someone actually said that, now we're going to sing it
Speaker 1: because it just like cuts that much deeper. It's just
Speaker 1: so funny. I have to laugh, like there's nothing funny
Speaker 1: about that, like like like that pre court, like like
Speaker 1: those elements you would say, my husband's girlfriend's husband just
Speaker 1: called me up and I messed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. That was just figuring, like shoving actual
Speaker 1: conversation into song, which is my favorite favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1: And so that's the first thing we met with that
Speaker 1: and we just like really loved working together and love
Speaker 1: the vibe, and um just kept going. And but I
Speaker 1: think we wrote five songs and four made the album,
Speaker 1: which that's not a normal presentage normally, right, like half
Speaker 1: of what you write gets thrown away forever, but that
Speaker 1: there's so special at all at all. Most of it stayed.
Speaker 1: And I gotta say those four songs are pretty much
Speaker 1: my four favorite, Like young Man, I love young Man.
Speaker 1: Don't don't try that song. You can't even try that song,
Speaker 1: Like she's trying to be sitting like she's untriable. It's
Speaker 1: a thing where it's just like, this album is very
Speaker 1: much about divorce, and this is an element. This is
Speaker 1: such a huge element of it. And I feel like
Speaker 1: in one song she was able to really write a
Speaker 1: love her to her sons, and you know, you guys
Speaker 1: just did an unbelievable job on that. And I also
Speaker 1: love love my best friend's weddings. I mean like that
Speaker 1: song is truly, truly great and we bop out to
Speaker 1: Texas Man and it honestly made me want a Texas Man.
Speaker 1: It's stirred us. It stirred our loins. Well I'm glad
Speaker 1: I'm stirring loins, you know what I mean that. I
Speaker 1: didn't think I was in stir loins with the Dixie Chicks,
Speaker 1: but at least loins have been stirred. We are blue
Speaker 1: blue bottom bottoms. No, blue blue bottom bottoms, another front
Speaker 1: runner for title of No, No, No, What is blue?
Speaker 1: What are you getting at here? Okay, we're worried we
Speaker 1: have to cut this out. Blue. No, it's not getting
Speaker 1: cut it's it's it's blue ball, blue bonnet, blue bonnet bottom.
Speaker 1: That's what I meant lord, blue bonnet girls. Anyway, Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: we are going to take just the quickest break and
Speaker 1: be right back with our guests Justin Trance, And believe
Speaker 1: it or not, we're back and we're here with Justin Trancer,
Speaker 1: and we've just been kind of, you know, to use
Speaker 1: an off these word gagging so over their contributions to music.
Speaker 1: And I did say before, um so I stand Kelly,
Speaker 1: and you wrote the song Nostalgic and I this is
Speaker 1: this is such a good song, and I literally thought
Speaker 1: to myself, like should this be a single on this album?
Speaker 1: And then they kind of build on that album. But
Speaker 1: I love that song. Now what are you what are
Speaker 1: you saying to me? Okay, I'm reading, I'm just tell
Speaker 1: truths because it's so long ago, we can just tell
Speaker 1: all the truths. Tell truths. Okay. One, it is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite things songs ever. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: a great song. But two, it's the first time a
Speaker 1: superstar ever recorded a song of mine. Now she has
Speaker 1: got as you know. I'm well, I'm sure both of
Speaker 1: you by default, because I'm sure Matt has forced you
Speaker 1: to know every Kelly Clarkson's story ever. But but I
Speaker 1: saw the view. I can tell you're a fan too,
Speaker 1: But I know that that Matt is the main one here,
Speaker 1: but you know, she got um pregnant. I think it
Speaker 1: was the second kid, and so even though she was
Speaker 1: my it was the first big cut I ever had.
Speaker 1: It was not the first big song, not the first
Speaker 1: big hors to play out a song of mine, but
Speaker 1: it was the first big cut because it didn't come
Speaker 1: out for like another year and a half because of
Speaker 1: the baby situation. Because great people, they can't stop so um.
Speaker 1: But Nostalgic is so important to me because of that,
Speaker 1: and I love that song, and it was one of
Speaker 1: the I normally don't sing demos because I have like
Speaker 1: a rock voice, but that is one of the songs
Speaker 1: I did sing the demo on, so it's like extra
Speaker 1: special to my heart. And that was kind of the
Speaker 1: song that they based like the whole vibe of the
Speaker 1: album really and they would we would hear from everybody,
Speaker 1: which I didn't know at the time is actually a
Speaker 1: bad thing because they A and rs and label people
Speaker 1: will play it for everyone saying this is our vibe,
Speaker 1: but then it gives them like two years to find
Speaker 1: a song in that vibe that maybe is more current
Speaker 1: or maybe it's more whatever. But at the time, like fabulous.
Speaker 1: The whole Kelly album is based off my song, but
Speaker 1: then it wasn't fabulous because then it wasn't a single
Speaker 1: and it wasn't blah blah blah. But it's still really
Speaker 1: special to me, and she sounds so good on it.
Speaker 1: And when I went because I didn't get to hear
Speaker 1: her vocal right away. I heard it before it came out,
Speaker 1: but I went to the New York offices where her
Speaker 1: labels based, I'm like, oh, do you want to hear
Speaker 1: her vocal? And I was like, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: have to. I'm gonna die. And I'm in this office
Speaker 1: like trying to be like super cool, like I'm former
Speaker 1: glam rocker now I'm like buzzing on the pop charts,
Speaker 1: and they played a Kelly vocal and I start crying
Speaker 1: in an off building, like because of me, I've been
Speaker 1: to a fan for so long in her voice is
Speaker 1: just so fucking good and it just blew my mind
Speaker 1: piece by pieces, even as like a Kelly I'm not.
Speaker 1: I I am not as much of a fierce fan
Speaker 1: as mad is, but I can recognize that piece by
Speaker 1: piece is this and it was, I mean, it was
Speaker 1: the last album she was on before she was kind
Speaker 1: of liberated into meaning of life. But I feel like
Speaker 1: a very personal album obviously, but also very like solid, fun,
Speaker 1: varied songwriting. I would say, like, um, like and you
Speaker 1: had you had our girl Maren Morris on it, you had, yeah,
Speaker 1: um there was. I think it's a solid, very overlooked
Speaker 1: Kelly album. Maybe not. I mean, maybe it's not to
Speaker 1: the wider Kelly fan base or or even the narrow
Speaker 1: Kelly fan base, but I feel like we don't as
Speaker 1: a culture recognized piece by piece for its musical We're
Speaker 1: still like, you know, a singles culture. And there wasn't
Speaker 1: that real home run single on that album, so that
Speaker 1: people don't know. But you know, if you're listening to this,
Speaker 1: listen to Nostalgic just because it's you know, my first
Speaker 1: my first cut, and Nostalgic to me is the bop
Speaker 1: on that album. And then I think, actually, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes what happens with Kelly is she will always find
Speaker 1: a way to make you talk about how talented she is,
Speaker 1: because it's when she I remember I was actually watching
Speaker 1: Live oddly enough, I hadn't watched American Idol and so long,
Speaker 1: but she had hand to god, I like it was
Speaker 1: my life when I was young, and then I somehow like,
Speaker 1: um new to tune in because she was going to
Speaker 1: be honest, because it was like the quote unquote last season,
Speaker 1: now it's back or whatever. But um, but she came
Speaker 1: back and she was so pregnant, and she did that
Speaker 1: that piano version of Piece by Piece, and it stopped
Speaker 1: time and went right to the top of the charts,
Speaker 1: and she got a Grammy nomination for it and brought
Speaker 1: more attention to that album. But I was really grateful
Speaker 1: that she did that as a fan who wanted people
Speaker 1: to listen to Piece by Piece because I thought it
Speaker 1: was great that album was made of hooks like that.
Speaker 1: And honestly, for me, Nostalgic is the bop of that
Speaker 1: album for me, because it just she sounds like she
Speaker 1: was having fun doing it. Sometimes I think in those
Speaker 1: later years at our c A, it sounds like she
Speaker 1: was maybe a little disinterested in some of the songs
Speaker 1: she was singing, like I don't know if she gives
Speaker 1: a funk about heartbeat song, Like for for me, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a whatever thing. And when that when it's
Speaker 1: it's a bob version of Jimmy Eats World of the Middle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think that I think she thought the monster
Speaker 1: on that album was going to be Invincible, which is
Speaker 1: a great song. Doesn't see a song? Right, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and um, for some reason, it just didn't. It didn't
Speaker 1: make it happen on radio. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: good stuff on there, and Nostalgic is my favorite song
Speaker 1: on it, so I had to give the kudos. Well,
Speaker 1: think I actually have another Kelly Clarkson story if I
Speaker 1: may indulge, yes, please please please. So, um, I was
Speaker 1: and I mean this, this isn't just like internet talk
Speaker 1: whatever people say that when they're pretending to be humble.
Speaker 1: I was actually like super fucking honored and excited to
Speaker 1: be nominated for Golden Globe because it's like a music
Speaker 1: person getting to hang out with movie people and TV people.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh now, I'm like actually cool, Like he's
Speaker 1: fucking sick, right, so grateful for a Grammy nod, Thank you,
Speaker 1: baby Jesus. But like the Golden Globe was kind of
Speaker 1: cooler because I knew I was gonna get to go
Speaker 1: to the Golden clubs at my Stars born No for
Speaker 1: um uh oh my god. What then is the movie
Speaker 1: called ferninand um, it's a song like Jonas. It's it's
Speaker 1: like a really beautiful, like inspiring kids song. It's the
Speaker 1: kids song. But I love it, and um, so I
Speaker 1: got to go. And so they put me at like
Speaker 1: the music table, so it's me and Nick Jonas and
Speaker 1: he brought Joe as a brother and then um, it
Speaker 1: was Kelly Clarkson was presenting, so they just put her
Speaker 1: at the pop music table because they just figured and
Speaker 1: then and I hadn't met her yet, so even though
Speaker 1: she caught nostalgic, it was like all done, like she
Speaker 1: was a Nashville Incent. So I got to meet her
Speaker 1: finally and what was It was just so cool. And
Speaker 1: I met Sharon Stone that night and made a total
Speaker 1: fool of myself. She's my number one, Like I'll pull
Speaker 1: myself to Sharon Stone, happen to it. If that's if
Speaker 1: that's what it takes to save Sharon, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1: So I love that she's a great number one. No,
Speaker 1: she's my number one of anything anything in the world.
Speaker 1: I got to meet Sharon Stone and blah blah, but
Speaker 1: it was so fucking cool to watch. And Matt, You're
Speaker 1: gonna love us the most is that every movie star.
Speaker 1: The reason I met Sharon Stone's because she stopped to
Speaker 1: introduce herself to Kelly Clarkson, who doesn't love her, who
Speaker 1: doesn't love Tina Davis stopped to introduce herself to Kelly Clarkson.
Speaker 1: Every movie I got to meet every fucking A list
Speaker 1: or I ever wanted to meet because they wanted to
Speaker 1: meet Kelly Clarkson. And it's so funny you say that,
Speaker 1: because that was famously the Red Carpet where she almost
Speaker 1: tripped down the stairs because she got so excited because
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep was there and she went over to Mertyl Streep.
Speaker 1: So I feel like everyone thinks, like, oh, Kelly, she's
Speaker 1: just like us. You know, she's normal. She fans girls
Speaker 1: over celebrities. But to hear that they actually are fangirling
Speaker 1: over her is the real truth. That's And then who's
Speaker 1: the who's that? I don't really like care what straight
Speaker 1: men do in this planet. But there's the guy he
Speaker 1: was in fourty year old version, what's his name? Steve Carrell?
Speaker 1: And there's the moment where he gets waxed and yelled
Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson. He came over to introduce himself to Kelly Clarkson,
Speaker 1: she owes her isn't that crazy, And they had this
Speaker 1: whole moment together about the movie and it was like
Speaker 1: a whole ship bang. That is so good. I love
Speaker 1: her so much. She's nice, She's the best. She couldn't
Speaker 1: be nice. There couldn't be cooler. She brought her own
Speaker 1: food to the Golden Globe. She's like, I'm not eating
Speaker 1: this ship. Kelly has that power though. It's like she
Speaker 1: is forever a pop culture like a staple, but like
Speaker 1: this whole like she like legitimized the whole show, a
Speaker 1: whole franchise worldwide, like she is the reason why idolists still,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's wild, and she'll never go
Speaker 1: away because she always she she's always going to remind
Speaker 1: you how talented she is and to back it up.
Speaker 1: She's also has that energy from within that emanates out
Speaker 1: like not surprised at all that she's now when Emmy
Speaker 1: winning daytime talk show hosts, like it's it just nothing
Speaker 1: surprises me. And I always knew, like I've been a
Speaker 1: fan now for almost twenty years of hers, like a
Speaker 1: big fan, and I've always even in the ups and
Speaker 1: downs of her career because there were major downs. I
Speaker 1: mean the my December era whatever was going on with
Speaker 1: her and Clive Davis at that time, Like that was tough,
Speaker 1: and like there there there's been ups and downs, but
Speaker 1: I'm I never am worried about her. I'm always just
Speaker 1: like excited about what she's gonna do next, and I
Speaker 1: always enjoy everything she does. And I wanted to, but
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask about our other icon, which
Speaker 1: is Gaga. Um just you know we touched on the
Speaker 1: nine on one of it all. There was this time
Speaker 1: in Gaga's career even before Star is Born. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean and then I'll sort of like made sense later
Speaker 1: on in hindsight, but like you had these dual tracks
Speaker 1: of Gaga after Joanne where she was doing the Cure
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, this is like nineties R and B,
Speaker 1: like what is this? This is? This is this is
Speaker 1: something fun and novel in New and then and then
Speaker 1: you know Stars Born happened, and then you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: so that must have been like a Star is Born
Speaker 1: cut or something she wanted to keep for herself. And
Speaker 1: then but then like the Enigma thing happened in Vegas
Speaker 1: where like is this the Enigma era Enigma and then
Speaker 1: chromatic it happened, but then it all sort of converged,
Speaker 1: I think in the perfect way with Chromatica, where you
Speaker 1: had like new disco and like house, like all these
Speaker 1: different elements sort of coming together. So I think it
Speaker 1: all sort of convalesced and and coalesced in in the
Speaker 1: right way. Yeah. When blood Pop, who produced the bulk
Speaker 1: of Chromatica, UM is just I think one of the
Speaker 1: coolest producers in the world. Uh. And we me and
Speaker 1: Julia did justin Bieber Sorry with blood Pop. M so
Speaker 1: another monster smash, just a little ditty for the kids
Speaker 1: for the children's UM. But it was really cool too
Speaker 1: because then when I went back and wrote on Chromatica
Speaker 1: with Gaga, um, it was with blood Pop again, who
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen for we a couple of sessions since Sorry,
Speaker 1: but not a lot. And so then it was so
Speaker 1: cool because it's not only coming back with Gaga, but
Speaker 1: then getting back with blood Pop, who's just his his
Speaker 1: sound choice is like kind of the coolest in the
Speaker 1: world right now. He likes can you talk a little bit?
Speaker 1: Although I know that you can't share the gritty details,
Speaker 1: like can you talk a little bit or speak to
Speaker 1: the creative collaborative environment that is working with Lady Gaga.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, I mean, you know it's I've been in
Speaker 1: some form or another, been around her from a couple
Speaker 1: of years before she got I would say the Fame,
Speaker 1: but actually the album, the fame and being famous, and
Speaker 1: then I'm very much at the beginning, yeah yeah, and
Speaker 1: then working on Cromatica and um, you know, she just
Speaker 1: just is the musicians musician, she's the performers performer. Um,
Speaker 1: you know those all the huge hits from the Fame,
Speaker 1: it was just her and read one alone. It was
Speaker 1: just the two of them, which I think is you
Speaker 1: gut from my you know, follow both of you enough
Speaker 1: online like your pop super fans. You know that nowadays
Speaker 1: most songs have minimum three people minimum, but like a
Speaker 1: lot of times there's a lot more, especially if it's
Speaker 1: their samples involved and you have to credit the writers
Speaker 1: from the original sample and there's like then there ends
Speaker 1: up being twenty people in the song. All those early
Speaker 1: Gaga songs that was sucking her and her alone, I
Speaker 1: mean speechless, she wrote by herself, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like there's like you're you You're walking into a room
Speaker 1: with a real songwriter, a real singer, and a real performer. Um,
Speaker 1: and then now she's a fucking actress, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like the whole You're walking into someone who
Speaker 1: has the whole thing and who knows exactly where she's
Speaker 1: what she's aiming for, and he's gonna fucking figure out
Speaker 1: how she's going to hit that balls like every time. Um.
Speaker 1: And also to what's so cool with hers is she
Speaker 1: just takes real risks, not like, oh, I'm a pop
Speaker 1: star who's gonna like, you know, get personal this time. No,
Speaker 1: Like she takes you know, that's always really take you know, love,
Speaker 1: I'm getting this is my most personal album. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: about the last single from yesterday that wasn't anyway? She
Speaker 1: always takes real risks, like the sonic jumps and the
Speaker 1: whole look changes, And I just think it's it's so
Speaker 1: cool to like be a part of the process with
Speaker 1: someone who's jumping off the fucking ledge every time. Like
Speaker 1: it's that. That's honestly we talked about Kelly. For me,
Speaker 1: that's for me. Yeah, because the Monster ball did you
Speaker 1: see me on the Monster I did not see the
Speaker 1: Monster The first tour I ever saw was Joanne, but
Speaker 1: Monster Ball I was following. But she literally did save
Speaker 1: his life. She did, but but but but with the
Speaker 1: Monster Ball, I was looking up every single YouTube video
Speaker 1: of people recording and of course it was it was
Speaker 1: it was s p W and it was And then
Speaker 1: I have rewatched the HBO Fame Monster on the Monster
Speaker 1: Ball just recording. It's pretty insane. So many times, I
Speaker 1: think that is one of the most important tours ever.
Speaker 1: It's our generation. It's our generations. Yeah, it's our generations,
Speaker 1: like Blond Ambition, Who's That Girl? And um The Girly
Speaker 1: Show all in one. It's like all these huge Madonna
Speaker 1: tours all in one because she like did like what
Speaker 1: seven different legs of it. It It was like a two
Speaker 1: year long tour. I was that was There was only
Speaker 1: six weeks we didn't do because the City Sisters did
Speaker 1: six weeks. But so of the two year tour, we
Speaker 1: did every single show except you know, however, many shows
Speaker 1: are in six weeks, but nuts we did. We did
Speaker 1: North America twice, we did Europe twice, we did Australia
Speaker 1: only one. But just like it just never ever, it
Speaker 1: might have been North America three times. I don't fucking know,
Speaker 1: because she did it was a lot, because she did
Speaker 1: North America. She did this stage version, the theater version,
Speaker 1: she and then the arena version, and that she'd may
Speaker 1: be born this way into born this way. Like the
Speaker 1: theater version I think is possibly like my my most
Speaker 1: favorite pop tour. And I don't mean because I was opening.
Speaker 1: I mean like her, her show, not me. Her show
Speaker 1: was my most I think, my most favorite pop tour,
Speaker 1: like the last at least fifteen years. It's you know,
Speaker 1: blond Ambition holds a very special place in my heart.
Speaker 1: But I definitely think that the theater version of the
Speaker 1: Monster Ball was like actual perfection. There was one time
Speaker 1: we were in the l a show and I went
Speaker 1: out to watch. I watched like almost every night because
Speaker 1: it was just that good. Why not you know, there's
Speaker 1: people actually like killing each other for tickets and I
Speaker 1: can just like walk out and see it so I
Speaker 1: might do it. She did this thing with the audience
Speaker 1: like it was a stop in one of the songs.
Speaker 1: I can't which one she was in, like the beige
Speaker 1: skeletal outfit, and she stopped and like they were applodding
Speaker 1: and like she just let them keep applauding, and then
Speaker 1: she did like a fake yawn like and they went
Speaker 1: even crazier and I was like, well, that's one of
Speaker 1: the cooler things I've ever seen one a rock star move.
Speaker 1: And no, my favorite, the thing that has like informed
Speaker 1: everything about like my conception of performance is her during
Speaker 1: the Love Game, in between Love Game and the remix
Speaker 1: of it, like her just doing the whole like damn
Speaker 1: motherfuckers dance motherfucker's or her just being like I've heard
Speaker 1: they've got really big cock here in Northern Ireland, So Belfast,
Speaker 1: get your dicks out, like every city like just just
Speaker 1: mad living in the city's like it's it's so genius.
Speaker 1: It's like what it really that you bring up Belfast
Speaker 1: because in many cities in Belfast is one of them,
Speaker 1: they would put up after the first night that I
Speaker 1: would perform the next night, they would either um threatened
Speaker 1: to not let us perform if I didn't change certain
Speaker 1: aspects of the show, or they'd put up signs saying
Speaker 1: that the opening act is not appropriate for children. That's
Speaker 1: obviously like extreme fem phobia. And at that time I
Speaker 1: was I was in homophobia and like I was presenting
Speaker 1: so fem which I still do now if I'm like
Speaker 1: going out, but it's only I'm going out. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, so there's elements of transphobia and that where
Speaker 1: they would like literally threaten to arrest us happened in Boston, um,
Speaker 1: and then in Belfast, like we was all one of
Speaker 1: the many times like warning like this is not appropriate
Speaker 1: for children, and I'd be like, but when the SIS
Speaker 1: woman says get your cocks out, totally fine. But because
Speaker 1: I'm I mean are we had some crazy lyrics and
Speaker 1: like I would change my outfit on stage and it
Speaker 1: looked like I was naked, but it was a full
Speaker 1: like nude body suit, so I was not naked at all. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, oh, that's that's interesting. So she's cool,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna get arrested. Millions and millions of people
Speaker 1: in this world are literally afraid of gay people and
Speaker 1: of gay sex, which is literally what homophobia is and means.
Speaker 1: And it's so it's very, um shocking to confront that,
Speaker 1: even in the environment that is like a Lady Gaga show,
Speaker 1: but that is unfortunately, um, a reality. I um but
Speaker 1: what but really quickly, I I just I love that
Speaker 1: Justin's pointing out the distinction between homophobia and femp and
Speaker 1: of course trans but the fem phobic aspect is this
Speaker 1: thing where it's like sometimes I'll just I mean this
Speaker 1: past season of work, I would just be standing in
Speaker 1: a sketch, and then I think, like I would get
Speaker 1: tweets that week when I wasn't in any other sketch
Speaker 1: besides just like basically standing in the corner of one
Speaker 1: and saying one thing, and then someone being like multiple
Speaker 1: people being like Bowen keeps acting gay? Why why does
Speaker 1: he keep acting gay? Can we do anything with his hand?
Speaker 1: His hand is being gay. There's like, no, there's nothing
Speaker 1: we can do about our very nature. I mean, thank thankfully,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get that note internally, um, which
Speaker 1: which which I'm very grateful for. But I mean in
Speaker 1: terms of, like the response from just anybody thinking that,
Speaker 1: like thinking that there's likely there's a threshold of gayness
Speaker 1: that they can handle as an as an audience member
Speaker 1: is like so interesting to me. It drives it drove
Speaker 1: me insane. I was just like, this is it's not homophobia,
Speaker 1: because homophobia is like, okay, cool, Like the idea of
Speaker 1: a gay person I'm is like enrages me. But the
Speaker 1: idea of a person like with a limp wrist visibly
Speaker 1: visibly fem's totally different. Yeah, that's it's you know, I
Speaker 1: think too because and I try to always like forgive
Speaker 1: queer people because there we've there's so much shame that's
Speaker 1: been put upon us. As we all know. You know,
Speaker 1: gay men are very guilty of fem phobia too. When
Speaker 1: you're opening for God, God, there's a lot of gay
Speaker 1: men who are very uncomfortable with me being so femi
Speaker 1: and so sexual as well, because it's like, okay, no,
Speaker 1: we're cool with like Neil Patrick Harris, but you not.
Speaker 1: That's too far. That's too far. Um. And Neil Patrick
Speaker 1: Harris can play head big, but that's a character and
Speaker 1: this is actually who you are. So that's because we
Speaker 1: know he wears a tie. We love it tie. We've
Speaker 1: seen it. We've seen the girls in it. You know,
Speaker 1: we've seen him in a tie and so and the
Speaker 1: tie wearing a man very safe. Yeah, and the pe
Speaker 1: standing up. Thanks, thanks, thank you, even when they're tired,
Speaker 1: even when they're tired, you know what you know, because
Speaker 1: we have to ask you the question, the question capital
Speaker 1: t capital que but before we do. I would be
Speaker 1: remiss if I didn't mention just one more song which
Speaker 1: makes me act like an absolute wrror um and my
Speaker 1: and my and my dwellings here, which is the iconic
Speaker 1: make Me Feel by Janelle Mona. I mean, can we
Speaker 1: just like this and Dirty Computer the whole album unbelievable
Speaker 1: but make me feel said, this is what I am like.
Speaker 1: Can you speak a little bit about that song? And
Speaker 1: working with Janelle? I mean, one of the coolest human
Speaker 1: beings to ever live, right, that's just we all love them.
Speaker 1: And she shows up to the studio looking fierce, which
Speaker 1: I really appreciate. You know, I feel like if we're
Speaker 1: it there, you know I was I was writing this
Speaker 1: Christmas album. I telling you guys about I was writing
Speaker 1: the Christmas album in my house with my friends. We
Speaker 1: all got tested so we could be together, you know,
Speaker 1: like do this album and I still show up too.
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna if I'm gonna write a song, there
Speaker 1: needs to be some sort of look. You know. If
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a T shirt like this, I'm still
Speaker 1: going to do like a high waisted jean, I'm still
Speaker 1: gonna put a fierce shoe on. We're creating. We're creating.
Speaker 1: You're coming to work, you're dressing in work at tire.
Speaker 1: If we're creating, we're creating, and that's real culture number
Speaker 1: one hundred and six. If we're created, we're c And
Speaker 1: I don't think you can create in sweatpants. I just don't.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with it. I don't approve of it.
Speaker 1: And I'm ready, I'm ready to die in this hill.
Speaker 1: You know, of all the things I agree with, but
Speaker 1: my real activism is sweatpants while creating. It should be outlawed. Bamn.
Speaker 1: I'm calling Glad and telling them the new agenda. This
Speaker 1: is it. Yes, and you are a board member, a
Speaker 1: board member, and they are a board member. Yeah you.
Speaker 1: By the way, Also to just you guys, know, all
Speaker 1: pronouns are fine with me, so don't ever stress with
Speaker 1: my pounce love them all, take them, I take them.
Speaker 1: But they are a board member, damn it. So Janelle
Speaker 1: shows up to the studio always in a look alia
Speaker 1: every time, every time. I love it. And what a
Speaker 1: gorgeous to talk about. Two gorgeous women. Oh my god, women,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I saw alipa guest hosting Kimmel the
Speaker 1: other night. I was like this bitch is on a
Speaker 1: zoom looking like oh, a model all day every day.
Speaker 1: Gwen Stefani, Honey, I'll show up to the house at
Speaker 1: ten am, you know, because she's on mom schedule. So
Speaker 1: I'm showing up at tenni m to write a song
Speaker 1: with Gwen. She's she's looking like she's looking like Gwen
Speaker 1: Stefani and the she's always done. She's just she's always done.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying everyone has to live that life, but
Speaker 1: I just want to shout out the people didn't do
Speaker 1: because I think it does take work. It doesn't take work.
Speaker 1: She's the same age as Ted. Our Friendicle Conlin says this.
Speaker 1: She's conservativism eats you from the inside. You look like
Speaker 1: shit and people look mean you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: ugly people inside, deep and deep in there. This is true,
Speaker 1: but make me feel so how to talk about where
Speaker 1: this fucking came from? Like, because this is this this
Speaker 1: song is an Alzheimer thank you. Um it came from
Speaker 1: uh Me and Julia, Mattman and Robin knowing that we
Speaker 1: were maybe going to have a chance to Matt and
Speaker 1: Robin are my favorite producers in the world. Mind now,
Speaker 1: Matt Men and Robin the best. Oh and they're like
Speaker 1: super cute Swedish boys, like they're just the best. Um,
Speaker 1: one just had a baby. Congratulations, creepy, but good for him.
Speaker 1: Babies are terrifying. But um, so we knew we were
Speaker 1: gonna get a chance to maybe work with her, so
Speaker 1: we like just dreamed up a little starter idea because
Speaker 1: she's a real writer, right, so you can't show up
Speaker 1: the song with Genomene, she's gonna smack you in the face.
Speaker 1: Like it's gotta be just a little starter idea. And um,
Speaker 1: Luckily she came in, she heard it and she was
Speaker 1: like fuck, yes, let's go. Um. And it's one of
Speaker 1: those magical songs all my favorite songs for the most part,
Speaker 1: they all it feels like they write themselves, like you
Speaker 1: don't know who said what or where it happened. It
Speaker 1: just kind of comes and like the meat of all
Speaker 1: my favorite songs, like the core of them. Um all
Speaker 1: happen in like I would say, forty five minutes at
Speaker 1: the longest, Like it just like this dump of creativity. Um,
Speaker 1: what a horrible word choice, dun't dump of creativity. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it's a front runner for the title of I Don't
Speaker 1: Know what to say, when these things happen, it's it's
Speaker 1: against my better judgment. We have to just do what
Speaker 1: the universe is saying, you know, just let it happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you know what it is, it's like stung writing.
Speaker 1: Really when the title of that arrives, it arrives, and
Speaker 1: dump of Creativity is registering at about number three on
Speaker 1: the list things could change, things could change. We don't
Speaker 1: know that is truthful operation. That's like when that's what
Speaker 1: it's like the best and that's why it's always so funny,
Speaker 1: which I love that you guys have not asked me
Speaker 1: this at all today, Like so at this part of
Speaker 1: the song, who did that part? And not only is
Speaker 1: that not important because we're all in there doing it together,
Speaker 1: but most of the time I don't even remember, you
Speaker 1: know it, Julia came in with the main idea. Of
Speaker 1: course we remember that, like she came in with the
Speaker 1: main idea, like hands to myself as Julia walked in
Speaker 1: with that idea, So of course we remember that. I
Speaker 1: love that song. Oh my god, the body of work,
Speaker 1: thank you, but yes, just and actually what's really cool
Speaker 1: too is that when we were writing it, um the
Speaker 1: lyric sexual bender. It was kind of being interpreted as
Speaker 1: like when you go on a drinking bender, like a second,
Speaker 1: that's how that's how I hear it. That's how I
Speaker 1: hear it too. But then she made the video that
Speaker 1: was very clearly a bisexual situation. So a lot of
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, sexual bender, like a gender bender,
Speaker 1: but a sexual bender, like she can go both ways.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's a lot cooler than
Speaker 1: what I thought. The song that I isn't that cool.
Speaker 1: So I don't know she heard, like if that's how
Speaker 1: she wanted the video to like heighten that line, or
Speaker 1: if it's just with all amazing coincidence, but yeah, she's
Speaker 1: She's the best. What a pre chorus it's thinking perfect?
Speaker 1: So good. Also, wait, we have to shout out, um
Speaker 1: two of two of my favorite songs that you've worked on,
Speaker 1: which are off well of course Erica Jane, how many facts?
Speaker 1: But also yes the number one but let me let
Speaker 1: me couple these together. And then Britney Spears do you
Speaker 1: want to you want to come over? I think like
Speaker 1: on ironically, like one of Brittany's better songs, RuPaul's drag
Speaker 1: Race is making the biggest mistake of their life by
Speaker 1: not having that as a lip sing song to me
Speaker 1: is screaming out my first lip snce make me feel
Speaker 1: oh my god. Yes, it was a winning lips sha
Speaker 1: motherfucking kol make me feel oh my god. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the last episode. That was the last at
Speaker 1: WoT that cool? Well, honestly, I will say, do you
Speaker 1: want to come over? Should be allips song? That song
Speaker 1: is it? Whatever you want, whatever you need a hut
Speaker 1: like it's it's again, it's skeletal. It's like there's there's
Speaker 1: no there's no excess. It's exactly the amount that we need.
Speaker 1: That's matt Man and Robin production as well, Julia, Mattman
Speaker 1: and Robin and we wrote it the morning after we
Speaker 1: were all in Vegas on this in this writing camp,
Speaker 1: and we went to go see Brittany perform, of course,
Speaker 1: and she pulled me up on stage because her manager,
Speaker 1: you know, made it, fixed it. So I got to
Speaker 1: be up on stage and I got to be like
Speaker 1: the when she's like the Dominatrix thing and she's like
Speaker 1: I crawl, you know that whole thing. Have you seen
Speaker 1: the Vegas Show? Anybody? I've not seen the Vega Show.
Speaker 1: I've seen enough clips to basically piece it all together. Okay,
Speaker 1: then like Andy Cohen did, like you know whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I was doing that, and then the next morning
Speaker 1: we wrote make Me Not, Make Me Feel Sorry? Do
Speaker 1: you want to Come over? Um? And fully inspired by
Speaker 1: um by the moment. Yeah, zanes An r had asked
Speaker 1: us to try to like submit some songs for Zane
Speaker 1: and we were just too overwhelmed by the performance we
Speaker 1: saw the night before that we just had to write
Speaker 1: a Brittany song. Sometimes you just got to write a
Speaker 1: Brittany song, I find, you know what I mean, especially
Speaker 1: in Vegas when you're in Vegas and she's in the air.
Speaker 1: She's in the air in the Vegas. When you go
Speaker 1: to Vegas, it like it is informed by who's like there.
Speaker 1: There's like the Secret and Royd era where it's like
Speaker 1: you go to it. Like I remember as a kid
Speaker 1: going to Vegas and being like, oh, like this is
Speaker 1: where like miles like two miles away from wherever, secret
Speaker 1: from wherever Selina's wherever we're like that person is and
Speaker 1: like she like was like the queen of Vegas for
Speaker 1: like that period. Yeah, well I think Brittany reinvented what
Speaker 1: Vegas meant like, you know, even though it wasn't at
Speaker 1: her peak peak of fames, she was still Brittany was
Speaker 1: still kicking ass. And so to go to Vegas where
Speaker 1: everyone else went like when it was years and years over.
Speaker 1: So I think Brittany really reinvented all these all these
Speaker 1: people are going in their prime. I mean, Gaga was
Speaker 1: just there. It was sucking stars Born took over the
Speaker 1: whole planet, you know what I mean? Do you do
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts about what is happening with Brittany
Speaker 1: right now? I mean, I feel like it's kind of
Speaker 1: top of mind for everyone that is a big fan
Speaker 1: of hers, Like I think that everyone's a little concerned.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you have a take on that situation.
Speaker 1: And my take is that I just love her so
Speaker 1: much and the because you know, we did right together.
Speaker 1: Do you want to come over? We just wrote for her,
Speaker 1: but some of the songs in the album we one
Speaker 1: pcent wrote together. We were in the room, so she's
Speaker 1: also they're contributing. And yeah, there's a song called just
Speaker 1: like Me on um Glory that's this really twisted concept
Speaker 1: of her amazing concepts. Twisted is a compliment when you
Speaker 1: talk about Britney to be very careful because her fans
Speaker 1: are very passionate. So when I say twisted, the beautiful
Speaker 1: Britney fans, I mean there's a compliment, had this beautifully
Speaker 1: twisted concept about walking in on her lover, cheating on
Speaker 1: her with someone who looks just like me. I see
Speaker 1: twisted concept, twisted, twisted. Yeah, And so yeah, definitely spent
Speaker 1: time with her. She couldn't be sweeter, she couldn't be cooler.
Speaker 1: That beautiful vocal tone is actually just comes out of
Speaker 1: her face, that special weird tone of hers again, weird
Speaker 1: compliment Britney fans ums. And so I just love her
Speaker 1: and I have so much love for her, And all
Speaker 1: I really want to say is that I just hope
Speaker 1: whatever is happening, that she is as happy as she
Speaker 1: possibly can be. Yes, I think with the controversy, uh,
Speaker 1: we're all just I mean, you can't really take a
Speaker 1: side on it beyond just being like, we just hope
Speaker 1: she's okay, like she turns out okay. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: tough too. I think with you know, I think some
Speaker 1: of the who I just I just wonder if all
Speaker 1: this drama is helping her, you know, That's what concerns me,
Speaker 1: is that I know that people want the best of her.
Speaker 1: I know that people are are rooting for her. Um,
Speaker 1: I just hope that the way that they're rooting is
Speaker 1: actually helping her. That's because I just want amazing. I
Speaker 1: wanted to be happy, and that's all, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's all I know. I think I think fandom has
Speaker 1: evolved over the last uh a few years in a
Speaker 1: way that I think or and I can see that
Speaker 1: she is able to tell when concern for her and
Speaker 1: care for her is is coming from a good place.
Speaker 1: And I think there is this collective sense of like,
Speaker 1: what's different from how however she experienced things in her
Speaker 1: past is that I think it's very clear that everyone
Speaker 1: is just um, just wants the best for her. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's what's tough, is that it's all with any
Speaker 1: with anyone who's in the limelight. It's you know, when
Speaker 1: fans are trying to express love, it's a tricky thing
Speaker 1: because we don't know how that person wants to receive love.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, that's the fucking triple quadruple edge
Speaker 1: sort of being famous is like who knows what the
Speaker 1: right thing to do is so I just wanted to
Speaker 1: be happy and healthy and she deserves the best because
Speaker 1: she's given us all she's I mean, that's the thing too,
Speaker 1: is like you have to remember Britney Spears's contributions to
Speaker 1: music and pop culture. Like it's not just it's not
Speaker 1: just like she came in was a success and now
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, you know, she's doing whatever she's doing
Speaker 1: and is feeling harever she's feeling. She came in and
Speaker 1: she changed the culture, you know what I mean. She
Speaker 1: is a once in a lifetime, once in a generation
Speaker 1: um movement moment like it is it is, and she
Speaker 1: has earned this place in people's hearts. That that's where
Speaker 1: I think this is all coming from. It's like, it's
Speaker 1: it's not like we are just you know, naval gazers
Speaker 1: wanting to know what's going on with her. It's we
Speaker 1: we need Brittany to be all right, and we we
Speaker 1: we love Brittany from the bottom of our hearts. And
Speaker 1: we are people who call ourselves lost culture stuff and
Speaker 1: we talked about pop culture and let's give it up
Speaker 1: for Britney Spears because she is a legend. And it's
Speaker 1: an overused word, but that's a real bona fide living
Speaker 1: legend well, and she changed pop culture like this second
Speaker 1: her video showed up on MTAs second she showed up,
Speaker 1: it was one world, and then the next day it
Speaker 1: was another world, another world, and the people are still
Speaker 1: rooting for her. Happiness twenty two years later is fucking
Speaker 1: amazing and she deserves it, though she she she has
Speaker 1: put in the work to this fan base that you
Speaker 1: know she deserves all that love, every second of it.
Speaker 1: You're right, Um, I want to ask one thing before
Speaker 1: we do a break, and then we'll ask justin the question.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I do want to ask, and
Speaker 1: I really genuinely want to know is them. I talked
Speaker 1: to James Anderson, who's this writer SNL who's been there
Speaker 1: for twenty years and who's who's written so many things,
Speaker 1: and he talks to me all the time about how
Speaker 1: he's like sometimes I'm just like I forgot that I
Speaker 1: wrote that thing. Do you have that kind of thing
Speaker 1: with your catalog or I'm from Okay, that's perfect and
Speaker 1: that that is only a good sign that you have,
Speaker 1: like are so creatively just like solid with your output
Speaker 1: that you're just like, oh, it's not even about keeping
Speaker 1: track of my hits anymore. You know, well also too,
Speaker 1: it's just like you know, you'll be in of course,
Speaker 1: the ones that got played to death on the radio.
Speaker 1: It's hard not to remember them. But you know, before
Speaker 1: the world ended, and you'd be walking through the grocery
Speaker 1: store or something and like an album cut would come up,
Speaker 1: because that's just what's on the grocery stores playlist, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, that sounds so familiar. What is this cool? Right?
Speaker 1: Got it? I actually co wrote the song and it's
Speaker 1: a really weird. It's like such a weird thing to
Speaker 1: like on the Gwen album, I made, um, this is
Speaker 1: what the truth feel This is what the truth feels like.
Speaker 1: Great album, great album, Thank you, And there's so many
Speaker 1: album cuts on there that like grocery stores love like
Speaker 1: make Me Like You is a grocery store song, and
Speaker 1: I mean that in the highest honor. Oh god, it's
Speaker 1: so good. I love Misery. Misery is my number one
Speaker 1: from that whole album. I think, Yeah, that was that
Speaker 1: was that was a special because she she's in my
Speaker 1: in my probably top three artists of all time. Work
Speaker 1: with her was like it was pretty shocking. And then
Speaker 1: to make an entire album with her, and then a
Speaker 1: Christmas album with her. It's like just I'm good, I
Speaker 1: can just I can jump in my pool, never come
Speaker 1: out ever again. Do you remember that you wrote like
Speaker 1: Maria by Fifth Harmony? You know, because I remember again
Speaker 1: it's so so Camila's Camila is like lokin, no joke.
Speaker 1: Camille is so fucking talented it's disturbing. It's disturbing. Her
Speaker 1: voice terrific. Her voice, the way she writes melodies is terrific.
Speaker 1: But like Maria again, if I'm talking way too much,
Speaker 1: you can cut all this out. But the I'm living okay. So,
Speaker 1: like Maria, I wrote with a woman named Roger Kumari
Speaker 1: and the producer J R. Rhoda, and we are my
Speaker 1: first it ever was follow up boys centuries um probably
Speaker 1: might have not crossed your guys radar because which they
Speaker 1: actually wrote after watching a YouTube documentary about Marsha P.
Speaker 1: Johnson and You'll remember me for centuries. And then I
Speaker 1: went in and wrote, so happy birthday, Marcia. It's Marsha's birthday.
Speaker 1: Mr Mashaie. She would have been seventy a much much
Speaker 1: not nearly as important. Note. So I was with that
Speaker 1: team and the producers Like I just talked to Fifth
Speaker 1: Harmonies A and R. They really want a song where
Speaker 1: they sample something from Mariah and I was like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: and then he sampled the and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: that sample is just too iconic. We have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: Mariah in the lyric. It will just be distracting. It's
Speaker 1: too distracting. Um. And so that's that's how that happened.
Speaker 1: And pretty pretty dope that because Fifth Harmony does have
Speaker 1: one of those crazy fan bases. So even though it's
Speaker 1: not it's not even close to one of my like
Speaker 1: most well known songs, it does get brought up a
Speaker 1: lot because that fan base does not funk around. No,
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a lover of harmonizing and harmony. I
Speaker 1: I love it harmony. And we were we were saying,
Speaker 1: Normandy was it since before everyone else? I mean that album,
Speaker 1: that first album is, I mean Sledgehammer and then Top
Speaker 1: Down and then like that is such a solid album.
Speaker 1: Do you know who wrote Sledgehammer? Megan Trainer? Yes, I
Speaker 1: didn't know this, And so she's kind of a kind
Speaker 1: of the slagh of the millennium, isn't she? Megan Trainer?
Speaker 1: I wish that everyone could see Matt Space right now
Speaker 1: because the true sort of like you. It's like it
Speaker 1: feels like you're Sherlock Holmes, who just get the ultimate case.
Speaker 1: Let's get down to business here. Meghan Trainers kind of
Speaker 1: the slagh of them the millennium. I've only ever written
Speaker 1: one song with Megan Trainer and it's called Genetics, And
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it, it it features the pussy Cat
Speaker 1: Dolls and you guys would love it. It's like one
Speaker 1: of the gayest bops of all time, which is obviously compliment.
Speaker 1: It's obviously complain. I don't need any like I think
Speaker 1: with her fans call themselves like m trains or something.
Speaker 1: I don't when I say it's the gayest song ever,
Speaker 1: that's obviously a compliment. Um, listen to Genetics. It will
Speaker 1: it will ruin your life in all the right ways.
Speaker 1: Best Megan and pop culture. Megan McCain can take a walk. Um.
Speaker 1: I also just want to actually shout out one other song,
Speaker 1: which is is this okay? Is this annoying to you
Speaker 1: that we're just making you talk about? I'm loving it
Speaker 1: because also to guys like I really aren't asking you
Speaker 1: about any of the big radio hits, so I never
Speaker 1: get to talk about these songs. So I'm loving Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to continue that trend and say, you know
Speaker 1: what song made me get to my knees and actually
Speaker 1: almost crying was Jojo song music pitch that fucking song.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with that song and she but when if
Speaker 1: you heard this, it's basically it's basically it's the first
Speaker 1: track on her album called Mad Love I Believe Um
Speaker 1: and she it's basically it's a ballad and it opens
Speaker 1: the it opens the album, and it's basically her saying
Speaker 1: music is the love of her life and she has
Speaker 1: she bets her life on music every day and she
Speaker 1: will never stop despite the fact that it's been so
Speaker 1: hard for she has been paid dust by the industry,
Speaker 1: and she is so gifted and so talented and still
Speaker 1: is out there killing it. And this this song to me,
Speaker 1: can you talk about that song? I would love to
Speaker 1: Working with Jojo was so fucking amazing, like all of us, like,
Speaker 1: not only is that voice insane, but knowing if you're
Speaker 1: paying attention, you know the fucking hell she's been put
Speaker 1: through with a crazy first record deal and all this ship.
Speaker 1: So to get to work with her was so unbelievable,
Speaker 1: and like, I love someone like this, Like the more textured,
Speaker 1: smaller voices that I get to work with. I love
Speaker 1: that because you tell stories in different ways. But then
Speaker 1: when you work with someone like Jojo, you can tell
Speaker 1: stories in like a fucking in a whole other way. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like a Natalie Mains thing. Her voice is like cinema.
Speaker 1: It's like it could do it all, it really And
Speaker 1: then you know that song. Um, the producer name, uh,
Speaker 1: his name is Ucy, but he goes by Yusufer you
Speaker 1: know the producers. He's he's a really really awesome guy
Speaker 1: and very cute. Um and he was playing piano and
Speaker 1: we're worth this amazing other writer named Hanley Warner who
Speaker 1: did Katie Perry's Never Really Over, which I think is
Speaker 1: a rated so great song for me, one of the
Speaker 1: best songs that's come out in the past. This posse
Speaker 1: to four of Us, So the three of us and Jojo.
Speaker 1: We had written probably six songs together at this point,
Speaker 1: and this was the last one. Like, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: we're done with the album, but I didn't do the
Speaker 1: whole album. But just like we were, she was close
Speaker 1: to the end of her process, and um, let's just
Speaker 1: see you can get one more and let's just be
Speaker 1: super raw and vulnerable, like screw the computer. Let's just
Speaker 1: go over to the piano and see what happens. And
Speaker 1: um uc started playing, Hayley started singing this melody and Joe,
Speaker 1: Joe and I were just kind of talking about what
Speaker 1: she wanted to say, and we talked about some real,
Speaker 1: real honest, raw raw shit and that song about her
Speaker 1: you know, her dad and all this stuff. Um and
Speaker 1: so it's just kind of one of those things that
Speaker 1: fell out sitting around a piano like it was the
Speaker 1: old days, no computers involved. Obviously, eventually they had to
Speaker 1: get involved, but we just wrote it at the piano,
Speaker 1: like from the heart and doing what I'd love to
Speaker 1: do the most, which is just like talk to the
Speaker 1: artist and figure out how I can navigate their truth
Speaker 1: the best way possible. All the readers have to listen
Speaker 1: to this song music by Jojo. It's amazing. It was
Speaker 1: a cold writer on the damn track, which is saying something.
Speaker 1: Jojo just sent me a vocal um on Friday night
Speaker 1: or Saturday night of this song she's featuring on for
Speaker 1: this art I'm working with it's like a DJ producers,
Speaker 1: super cool thing. I don't think I can say who
Speaker 1: it is, but Jojo sent me a vocal You're not ready,
Speaker 1: You're not ready. It's like a it's fun. It's like
Speaker 1: a bop, but she's like still singing her fucking ass off,
Speaker 1: which sometimes it's hard to do on a bop. It's
Speaker 1: kind of hard to like really sing. But Joe Jo,
Speaker 1: so of course it happens. Get ready for it. You'll
Speaker 1: know it when you hear it's coming. I think in October,
Speaker 1: who is the most underrated artist right now? The most
Speaker 1: underrated artist out right now? Um, I mean my favorite artist.
Speaker 1: She's not really underrated, but I think she should be
Speaker 1: a thousand times bigger. Is Phoebe Bridgers? Um obsessed with
Speaker 1: shoe Bridgers. She's just she's like a songwriters songwriter, but
Speaker 1: her also vocally she's amazing. Um, she's my favorite artist
Speaker 1: right now. Oh to Neil Towns, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you all ever get into the like the cooler side
Speaker 1: of country music. Well, Dixie Chicks, so obviously you do.
Speaker 1: To Neil Towns has a song called Somebody's Daughter that
Speaker 1: will ruin your life. I guess Tom write with Tanil
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks over Zoom, and I'm so
Speaker 1: fucking excited to check that out. It's like my new favorite,
Speaker 1: Like she's my I think she's like the best thing
Speaker 1: to come out of Nashville in like maybe ten years.
Speaker 1: Like she's unbelievable. I love that, And I love that
Speaker 1: you shouted out Phobe Bridgers, Mat, you should listen to
Speaker 1: this album Punisher. It's it's so good. And I've heard
Speaker 1: a lot about emotional emotion sickness. Have you heard have
Speaker 1: you listen to that song? Matt, Oh, I'll send you
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's it's so good, Oh my god. And
Speaker 1: it's also I'm so because like she's on like she's indies,
Speaker 1: she's cool as like I'll never get to work with her.
Speaker 1: So it's really nice to to have like this this
Speaker 1: to find a new album that I'm just obsessed with
Speaker 1: as like a fan, like I'm fifteen again. It's not
Speaker 1: about like, yeah, I think I could work on that, No,
Speaker 1: it's just like I just listened to it endlessly and
Speaker 1: I wish that I was that good. That's pure. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I am When her album came out and I
Speaker 1: woke up groggy, and I just decided to go to
Speaker 1: go on a run of impressions of her where I
Speaker 1: did I like, I like improvised a Phoebe Bridger song
Speaker 1: and I kept doing it and then it was just
Speaker 1: like I didn't know he was a scientologist, Like it's
Speaker 1: all that's like crazy, these crazy details that she's she's
Speaker 1: such a good lyricist. Um anyway, like I like just
Speaker 1: like tweeted them and then um didn't expect anything. And
Speaker 1: then this was just like this is this is how
Speaker 1: Chloe Fineman Missfield like like like Phoebe found and retweeted.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is this is the perfect like
Speaker 1: full circle thing where like she was able to like
Speaker 1: she had like a sense of humor about her own work,
Speaker 1: which I was like, that's cool, like that is like
Speaker 1: the ideal and good for her for like being there
Speaker 1: because anyway, she just seems rats. Speaking of Chloe, when
Speaker 1: you guys were talking about selling Sunset at the beginning,
Speaker 1: the only thing I know of selling Sunset is Chloe's
Speaker 1: impersonation of the one one Yes. So I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I kind of know talking about but only because you know,
Speaker 1: I stalk all of your whole posse on the internet.
Speaker 1: You need to actually become familiar with Christine Quinn from
Speaker 1: selling Sunset, because I think the tool you could work
Speaker 1: together because I don't know if she has any musical
Speaker 1: talent at all, but I don't think it matters. I
Speaker 1: think that she should become I mean she's like an
Speaker 1: Erica Jane. I have done reality star before. I mean
Speaker 1: Erica does have talent though, so I don't know. But
Speaker 1: you brought up how many thoughts before? And it was
Speaker 1: so funny is that one of my first gigs ever
Speaker 1: of writing for other people was to write for Erica Jane.
Speaker 1: It was not how many facts, it was like way
Speaker 1: earlier and yeah, and she heard something that I had written.
Speaker 1: It would never came out, but someone played her some
Speaker 1: demo I had done and she was like, oh that
Speaker 1: that that that's fabulous, and like checked out my band.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's definitely who should be working
Speaker 1: on my project me Um to Miami, which was really
Speaker 1: glamorous at that time my life. I hadn't been flown
Speaker 1: anywhere because in the band you get places, but you
Speaker 1: pay for it yourself, Like she paid for my ticket
Speaker 1: and I felt so chic um and I don't think
Speaker 1: any of the songs ever came out. But then later
Speaker 1: when I had a bunch of hits and someone from
Speaker 1: her team hit up my publisher and like, anyway, I know,
Speaker 1: I know she's a reality star, but is there anyway
Speaker 1: Justin would work on this? And of course my publisher
Speaker 1: knew that, Like how Eric was one of the first
Speaker 1: people to ever think I was a good songwriter, And
Speaker 1: she was like, let me call let me call Justin,
Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure they'll be down to do this.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I'm fucking giving Erica Jane
Speaker 1: a fucking song to launch her off of Real Housewives?
Speaker 1: That what She's not Real Housewives? Right? Yeah happening, So yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe Erica Jane had a full another another full circle moment.
Speaker 1: Many of those in this car, how matters do I get?
Speaker 1: And no like current like pop star would ever sing that.
Speaker 1: Not only do I just she deserves the respect because
Speaker 1: she she believes me before a lot of people did.
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to get any other pop star
Speaker 1: to say zero zero zero none. How many funks do
Speaker 1: I give? And then there's some really weird rhyme in
Speaker 1: like the second verse way I ran like dicks with
Speaker 1: eight somehow, like you can suck on my date and
Speaker 1: like I've had eight, Like it's not often that you
Speaker 1: get to force rhyme dick with the number eight, and
Speaker 1: if you have that opportunity, you've got to take it. Also, nothingnother,
Speaker 1: but she earns that because she can jump into a split, like,
Speaker 1: come on, the woman is giving you everything the video
Speaker 1: for oh my God, it's one of her videos. But
Speaker 1: she expensive and I still don't give a fuck which
Speaker 1: and she lands into that split. I'm like, bitch, this
Speaker 1: is not a drill. This is I couldn't believe at
Speaker 1: the time. I wasn't watching house I was like the
Speaker 1: attict I am now, But at the time I was like,
Speaker 1: she's on Real Housewives. This is like slang like I've
Speaker 1: never seen before since the war. I haven't seen slanging
Speaker 1: like this since the war. Um, okay, we have to
Speaker 1: ask you the question, okay, and that is what is
Speaker 1: the culture that made you say culture is for me?
Speaker 1: This is formative culture that sort of set you in
Speaker 1: a cultural direction. You said, Sharon Stone is your number
Speaker 1: one of all number ones? But is there are there
Speaker 1: other things that come to mind? So you know, of
Speaker 1: course my my I've listened to the pot I know
Speaker 1: how this goes. And my publicist warned me that I
Speaker 1: would have to answer these and so warned, well, you
Speaker 1: know you were warned. Every interview we do is an assault.
Speaker 1: So it's good that you were warned. And it was
Speaker 1: you know, I have I have an answer for you.
Speaker 1: But just before, I said, I want to just let
Speaker 1: you know there was some serious ties, if not runner
Speaker 1: ups involved, So why don't you say the honorable mentions? Alright?
Speaker 1: So serious honorable mention was Debbie Gibson. Now I think
Speaker 1: I'm older cult, so I don't know if you understand
Speaker 1: the power, you understand the power of Debbie Gibson, the
Speaker 1: original Christina Aguilera sort of you know, and she was
Speaker 1: she produced and wrote everything alone alone, bitch alone. So
Speaker 1: this woman is no joke. And I remember being five
Speaker 1: years old listening to her CD tape. It was a
Speaker 1: tape then, because that's how old am. So this was
Speaker 1: I think it was like Cossette, Miss Cassette Williams. She
Speaker 1: was cossetting, she was cossetting for Jesus, and there was
Speaker 1: a song and I went like, I think I can
Speaker 1: do this. Wow, I could like that So that's a
Speaker 1: big culture moment for me because it was like pop pop,
Speaker 1: female songwriter, big thing right then. There was also much much,
Speaker 1: much much later in life, but in terms of like
Speaker 1: pop cultures, like the trash ere side, because I was
Speaker 1: a total music snob as a kid, because once I
Speaker 1: was past Debbie Gibbson, it was like you were either
Speaker 1: Courtney Love or Anti DiFranco or Tory Amos or you
Speaker 1: didn't exist, like you had to be the coolest of
Speaker 1: the cool you know, the first like big pop culture
Speaker 1: kind of like I don't want to say trashy because
Speaker 1: I loved it and respected it was Jessica Simpson's reality
Speaker 1: situation and were specifically her g Q photo shoot where
Speaker 1: she's in um An America can flag bathing suit in
Speaker 1: a parachute and the parachute straps are like really giving
Speaker 1: a nice frame for the nether regions. That was a
Speaker 1: moment I was like, Okay, this type of pop culture
Speaker 1: now I'm on board. I never understood, but I'm, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty year old hipster living in Brooklyn, and I think
Speaker 1: all these hipsters are wrong. Please stop talking about Strokes.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Jessica Simpson in a parachute,
Speaker 1: so big moment. But then the one that I'm really
Speaker 1: choosing to define me is the Madonna Vogue performance on
Speaker 1: the v M A S where she was giving you
Speaker 1: full Marie Antoinette, And that was the moment I went,
Speaker 1: my life is over. If I'm not Madonna or any
Speaker 1: sort of version of a female pop star, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to survive this world. The best to ever do it,
Speaker 1: the best to ever do ever do it. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I love showing people Truth or Dare, especially younger folks
Speaker 1: that I work with the pop music and they watched
Speaker 1: Truth or Dare and they go, oh, so she invented
Speaker 1: like this whole thing everything and like with lots of
Speaker 1: inspiration from the queer community. But yes, she was the
Speaker 1: first one to fully be inspired by the queer community
Speaker 1: a hundred because now all the girls are only inspired
Speaker 1: by the queer community or black Obviously, long conversation have
Speaker 1: very serious, but Madonna was the first to really blow
Speaker 1: my mind and go, Okay, this is my life now.
Speaker 1: And even with Vogue at the v M AS like,
Speaker 1: you still had your girl Camilla cabe O do like memory,
Speaker 1: which I believe was I believe it was probably a yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's well, but it's still like, oh, but these
Speaker 1: these are timeless things to reference, and there's there's no
Speaker 1: like because there is a world where someone a girl
Speaker 1: now does the thing that Madonna did, like an aesthetic
Speaker 1: bars from a Madonna aesthetic from thirty years ago, and
Speaker 1: it can be received. It's like, oh, that's like actually
Speaker 1: not cool anymore and that looks stupid and bad, like
Speaker 1: why would you ever wear that kind of hoop skirt
Speaker 1: or whatever? And like but now it's like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: like these are all things that can be transplanted to
Speaker 1: any era or any you know, pop culture in in
Speaker 1: like the modern era, like time. You know, it's that
Speaker 1: that's like the power of Madonna. That's the power Madonna,
Speaker 1: and that that that moment, I can see it clear
Speaker 1: as day. It was like the TV upstairs in my
Speaker 1: house I grew up in, and I just remember watching
Speaker 1: that performance and being like, nothing will ever be the
Speaker 1: same for the world end for me. It's all And
Speaker 1: also too, because there was so many she had so
Speaker 1: many very obviously fem queer men on stage serving kissing,
Speaker 1: like not not hiding their femininity at all, and that
Speaker 1: was like, okay, so it might have to be a
Speaker 1: bathup answer. But I can still get on stage like
Speaker 1: that was like a big, big moment. That's so interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like to register yourself in it completely did completely. What's um,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite Madonna album? I was gonna say era.
Speaker 1: I was gonna yeah, both answer both questions. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the as an album as a whole, I would
Speaker 1: say Ray of Light. Okay, good answer, that's that. That's
Speaker 1: the smart answer. That's the smart answer. But music ned
Speaker 1: answer the Yeah, but as like as not an album
Speaker 1: as an era, it's weird because they overlapped the like
Speaker 1: a Prayer slash Dick Tracy era because bog which many
Speaker 1: people forget Dick Tracy soundtrack, which makes no very This
Speaker 1: old timey cartoon movie has this song about like how
Speaker 1: gay men dance, how specifically black gay men dance in
Speaker 1: New York in the eighties. How are these? How does
Speaker 1: that work? But that happened, so it's kind of the
Speaker 1: overlap of the like a Prayer, which really you can
Speaker 1: just call the Blonde Ambition era. The Blond Ambition era
Speaker 1: as an era is for sure my favorite by far,
Speaker 1: but as an album there are more because a lot
Speaker 1: of them early Madonna albums if it wasn't a single,
Speaker 1: they some of the songs were pretty hard to listen to.
Speaker 1: Don't Kill Me, Please, Don't Kill Me I worship, But well,
Speaker 1: they have bigger fish to fry right now, and they
Speaker 1: can they can go they can go deal with they
Speaker 1: can come get their girl. Actually, but I'm wanting to
Speaker 1: block out the fact that she's like hawking Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: um medication or whatever the fun You're not medication Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's poison. I'm trying to hydro crocsicuin. Everyone's got to
Speaker 1: get a bottle of Hydroclora cloxicin. Yeah, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: block that up right now. We we Well, I just
Speaker 1: gave you my defining moment of culture. And you know what,
Speaker 1: people can be more than one thing. They can be.
Speaker 1: They can be the defining moment of culture for a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans and people worldwide and also be hawking
Speaker 1: hydro clock as a as a COVID medication, which I
Speaker 1: have to say is hashtag not uh nothing, not really nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did I answer that question correctly? Yes? You did. I
Speaker 1: was I was nervous. I'm not gonna lie to know. Also,
Speaker 1: you've got Sharon Stone and went Stefani and they're contributing.
Speaker 1: It really clears things up for the girls. Okay, share
Speaker 1: Stone and Madonna sort of line up very well. I
Speaker 1: think they tell like their compliments to the same story.
Speaker 1: They are the story. But it's it's the justin Trantra store. Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's that hyper femininity with extreme strength and possible violence.
Speaker 1: You know. Yes, yes, again, I am not. It's a
Speaker 1: last way from a tear, last way from a tier
Speaker 1: tier but I was. I am not. Violence never have been,
Speaker 1: which even though in some instance I probably should have
Speaker 1: been to protect myself more. But yes, yes, there's something
Speaker 1: about that Sharon Stone, all those characters that she played
Speaker 1: so well, where she's so beautiful and so strong and
Speaker 1: might kill you. Really I needed that feminine strength to
Speaker 1: get me through fucking junior high. You know, I totally
Speaker 1: get that this is but this is the thing that
Speaker 1: I was that we were talking about with selling Sunset, Matt.
Speaker 1: It's like the Christine Quinn's, the Regina Georgias. These are
Speaker 1: women who are who could kill you, who could murder you.
Speaker 1: I love the full of this, I do, and I
Speaker 1: need to be put on my toes by some of
Speaker 1: my pop culture obsessions. I need. I need to be
Speaker 1: danger yet. Yeah, I need the threat of death urgency.
Speaker 1: You know, if it's not just at least be super urgent,
Speaker 1: if you're not going to kill us, at least make
Speaker 1: us feel like what you're saying has this extreme sense
Speaker 1: of urgency, and be actively engaged with what's happening, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I love it. I love
Speaker 1: the eye of the tiger in it. I For me,
Speaker 1: it's like if I ever, if I ever am not
Speaker 1: into someone, it's probably because they're aesthetic or their image
Speaker 1: or their energy is passive, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I love energy. Yep, I agree. It's like whether
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with Courtney Love or Little Kim or
Speaker 1: Madonna or Gwen. None of them were making music that
Speaker 1: was anywhere close to each other, but there was this
Speaker 1: urgency in Sharence Don't even though she wasn't making music.
Speaker 1: Even I've tried, I definitely have tried to teach out
Speaker 1: to people. What if she wants a song we don't,
Speaker 1: she could, Yeah, you don't know, that would be huge,
Speaker 1: it would be it would be a colossal global hit. Um. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so now we have come to the moment that is
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey, which I know we've been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of I think so honeys with our guests,
Speaker 1: because I mean, just that has contributed it all capital
Speaker 1: I capital A. But now we're actually gonna turn away
Speaker 1: from positivity and towards what I will will be calling
Speaker 1: on the show negative catharsis um, and we are going
Speaker 1: to do I don't think so honey sixty seconds to
Speaker 1: rail against something in pop culture that we don't think
Speaker 1: so about. Um. So uh bow and I could go first,
Speaker 1: I think I okay, that's good. UM, I will put
Speaker 1: you first. This is the traditional order. This is Matt Rodgers.
Speaker 1: Would you like to say something before? I would like
Speaker 1: to say one thing, which is the almost my I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey, was necklaces that have your name
Speaker 1: on it. Um. But I've decided that I will not
Speaker 1: do that today. Okay, and we have one ready to go.
Speaker 1: Let's just say, let's just say if if I feel
Speaker 1: a certain kind of way about it on another episode.
Speaker 1: I am launching into that one because I I don't
Speaker 1: know if I think so honey about these necklaces that
Speaker 1: say Mary or the necklaces that say your name but
Speaker 1: but it's not today's right. I have to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more oppression than topical. That's right. Okay, So
Speaker 1: this is Matt Rodgers is I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. The
Speaker 1: Republican National Convention, what is happening right now as we speak,
Speaker 1: and if you are listening to it, watching it, responding
Speaker 1: to it, reacting to it, posting about it, stop, I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey, because you know what, that's what
Speaker 1: they want. They're gonna say a lot of crazy fucking
Speaker 1: ship this week, and we're recording this on Monday, which
Speaker 1: means it's begun, and they're probably up there right now
Speaker 1: saying some crazy fucking shit. Don't buy into it. Stay
Speaker 1: focused on one thing, and one thing only, which is
Speaker 1: getting him the fuck out. We already have so many
Speaker 1: concerns right now that we need to be focused on that.
Speaker 1: They are going to be talking about other things tonight, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: the next day, whatever, to distract us. That's what they do.
Speaker 1: It's his playbook. I don't think so, honey. If you
Speaker 1: haven't realized by now that what Trump does is create
Speaker 1: public circuses to distract you from the real issues, which
Speaker 1: are the fact that the postal service is still under
Speaker 1: attack all the time, and you know what they they
Speaker 1: headlines will try to confuse you and making sure it's
Speaker 1: all okay, we need to be worried about voter suppression,
Speaker 1: stay focused. I don't think it's any of the r
Speaker 1: n C and the chaos around it. And that's one minute,
Speaker 1: thank you. This is what this is. This is how
Speaker 1: I feel, which is we're better off not watching it.
Speaker 1: And also what I think is very intentional is that
Speaker 1: the scheduling is crazy because we're recording this Monday, so
Speaker 1: it hasn't even I wasn't even sure like when things
Speaker 1: would start, but like I I got notifications throughout the
Speaker 1: day in the afternoon today where they were like okay,
Speaker 1: they officially renominated Trump and which was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's like procedurally what happens. But then like Trump
Speaker 1: already gave an address I think in the afternoon. But
Speaker 1: then he's speaking every night. I know he's speaking every day,
Speaker 1: but like at like two pm or three pm, he
Speaker 1: like spoke in the afternoon, and like the program I'm saying,
Speaker 1: the programming and the scheduling is also I think intentionally chaotic,
Speaker 1: so that so that no one really knows what to
Speaker 1: focus on or were it not to focus on, even
Speaker 1: so that it's like you're being pulled into this no
Speaker 1: matter what, even if it's against true will. So yes,
Speaker 1: I mean, like try to tune it out as much
Speaker 1: as possible. Uh, don't fall for the distraction, even though
Speaker 1: that's gonna be difficult. I mean, we're gonna inevitably be
Speaker 1: talking about this throughout the week, in the month um
Speaker 1: before the debates, but like it's it's and I will say,
Speaker 1: you know, right now, we literally are talking about it
Speaker 1: because it's happening. And I did make comments last week
Speaker 1: about the d n C, and what I would like
Speaker 1: to say is that we recorded that on Monday, and
Speaker 1: by the end of the week, I actually want to
Speaker 1: give some at it to the people that put together
Speaker 1: and pulled off a virtual d n C, because while
Speaker 1: I don't agree with, in fact strongly disagree with some
Speaker 1: of the people that they had speak, I will say
Speaker 1: that at the end of the week I actually felt
Speaker 1: hopeful about Joe Biden presidency instead of just denying Trump
Speaker 1: and wanted to get Trump out of there. I think
Speaker 1: that it is um really really important that we see
Speaker 1: someone who not only is empathetic and not only really cares,
Speaker 1: but someone who, and this is really important, de centers
Speaker 1: themselves in the narrative. Notice how Trump has an inability
Speaker 1: and incapability when it comes to taking himself out of it.
Speaker 1: It's always about him, It's always about what he's feeling, thinking,
Speaker 1: who's wronging him. He is unable to de center himself,
Speaker 1: whereas Biden will often make things about his son, his wife,
Speaker 1: his vice presidential nominee, his UM party, his American people.
Speaker 1: Understand that's really important. And for someone that is a
Speaker 1: white cis man who's in politics, who's probably been cultured
Speaker 1: to believe that the world kind of revolves around him,
Speaker 1: He's run for presidents several times, it's incredibly difficult for
Speaker 1: someone UM that's running for president to consistently decenter themselves
Speaker 1: in the narrative. And I'm not I'm not just heaping
Speaker 1: praise at Biden's feed. I'm saying I am impressed that
Speaker 1: we have a real UM effort here to make this
Speaker 1: about the American people, and there's a real contrast between
Speaker 1: these two candidates. I don't think I'm speaking to anyone
Speaker 1: that's on the fence. But if I am, I hope
Speaker 1: that's something that you notice because it's growth and it's important,
Speaker 1: and he seems interested in us, which is not an
Speaker 1: interest of the presidents. I think it was of an
Speaker 1: effective messaging moment for for the party. I fucking hate
Speaker 1: that they had Bloomberg up there cracking his bogoo jokes
Speaker 1: and they had I totally agree, they had like a
Speaker 1: virulently anti Muslim Yep, there was not there was not
Speaker 1: enough Muslim presence. There was, there was, there was, there wasn't,
Speaker 1: there was didn't. They could have had Rashida, they could
Speaker 1: have had Alan. They chose that was I think that
Speaker 1: was a choice not to end to instead open up
Speaker 1: big tent bullshit and be like let's have case it
Speaker 1: come and like it's that was the thing. That sort
Speaker 1: of being the wrong way, and it only really worked
Speaker 1: as a harmonious sort of unified party message because you
Speaker 1: had progressives like AOC like Bernie sort of falling in
Speaker 1: line as it were to be like, yes, we were
Speaker 1: throwing our support behind Biden, even though there was that
Speaker 1: dumb AOC dust up with the numb with the sex
Speaker 1: with the second nomination thing um NBC News still owes
Speaker 1: an apology for tweeting out that she quote unquote did
Speaker 1: not endorse our support Biden that night. She was actually
Speaker 1: doing what procedure is, and she was seconding the nomination
Speaker 1: for Bernie because he earned enough delegates. So under they
Speaker 1: they and here's the real truth, and you know whatever,
Speaker 1: I'll just say this. NBC News willingly um posted that
Speaker 1: knowing how this ship works. So we have to understand that.
Speaker 1: You know, I understand that a lot of people stand MSNBC.
Speaker 1: We got a lot of people out of here who
Speaker 1: really appreciate Rachel Maddow and stuff like that. But this
Speaker 1: is a real problem. And I don't want to be
Speaker 1: out here on this podcast being like, don't trust the news.
Speaker 1: But they made a serious, serious, intentional decision there to
Speaker 1: confuse people about what AOC was doing. And it really
Speaker 1: is hard to convince me that the mainstream media doesn't
Speaker 1: want a story, which is the Democratic Party is in
Speaker 1: shambles going forward, because you know what, it's a narrative
Speaker 1: and they're thriving off the narrative. And it's not a
Speaker 1: fucking joke to real people in this country who need
Speaker 1: Trump to not be president. So I'm really disappointed in that,
Speaker 1: and that, honestly is let's just call that another I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey, because because that was really really
Speaker 1: really frustrating and upsetting. It's tough too, because you know,
Speaker 1: I am fortunate to do a lot of fundraising and
Speaker 1: activism for certain groups, and it is always a tough decision, right,
Speaker 1: Like so with the d n C, they were very
Speaker 1: clearly trying to appeal to the white voters, that straight
Speaker 1: white voters who are maybe undecided, right, And it's hard
Speaker 1: to know. I think AOC even posted something about story
Speaker 1: that she understood what they were doing and she respects it.
Speaker 1: She one percent mentioned that there was no Muslims and
Speaker 1: all this stuff that of course, if she was in charge,
Speaker 1: it would have been done much differently. But it's hard
Speaker 1: to know, Like sometimes right in certain fundraising things like
Speaker 1: but do we need a straight celebrity here to help
Speaker 1: us raise funds for l g B t Q causes?
Speaker 1: But then sometimes you do because you you need that
Speaker 1: exposure and you need that money raised. And so these
Speaker 1: are very tough conversations. And I am as progressive as
Speaker 1: as they come. Um, But I will say that just
Speaker 1: because in certain organizations in certain places, I am behind
Speaker 1: the scenes in these conversations, and they are hard conversations
Speaker 1: because if I had it my way at certain events,
Speaker 1: it would only be up and coming l g B
Speaker 1: t Q artists who need all the exposure and all
Speaker 1: the love and all that support. But then we might
Speaker 1: if we don't pair it with straight fucking ciss famous
Speaker 1: people who can really broadcast the message and amplify the message.
Speaker 1: Are are those young queer people even gonna be heard?
Speaker 1: Is the money going to be raised? It is a
Speaker 1: really really tough thing. And so like, of course I
Speaker 1: wish the d n C E it's the d n C,
Speaker 1: that's the band Jesus Christ. Of course, the I wish
Speaker 1: the d n C was handled in a much more
Speaker 1: progressive like scene, through a much more progressive lens. But
Speaker 1: on the other and I do understand that they're trying
Speaker 1: to get people's votes who haven't decided yet. UM not
Speaker 1: saying that I would have made the same choice. I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to, like always look at the I think
Speaker 1: we're all on the same page about this, I think,
Speaker 1: and I think you mentioned AOC's response, which was I
Speaker 1: thought a perfect response, which was no, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done it this way, but but props and kudos to
Speaker 1: the people that did pull it off. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: there is something to be said about the fact that
Speaker 1: we were not the intended audience for it, whether or
Speaker 1: not that is the right decision about how to program
Speaker 1: it this year. UM, could there have been a little
Speaker 1: bit more outreached to the progressive um block of this party,
Speaker 1: which is very real and very important to be heard,
Speaker 1: and we consider ourselves all a part of that. You know,
Speaker 1: that is a question mark that I have, But I
Speaker 1: thought overall there was a lot of positive stuff to
Speaker 1: be said. And it's also tough two because the super
Speaker 1: a lot all this is a a lot of super
Speaker 1: young progressive people are not registered to vote, and they're
Speaker 1: they're gonna tweet and they're gonna get piste, but they're
Speaker 1: not registering. So on one way it should should they
Speaker 1: have made the convention geared towards getting those fucking kids
Speaker 1: to register? Or are they going to gear it towards
Speaker 1: the people who are already registered because they're sixty years
Speaker 1: old and they're on the fence. Like, I don't have
Speaker 1: the right answer for that. It's it's hard to know
Speaker 1: I mean electoral politics are a nightmare. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a reason why it so difficult to navigate. Why there
Speaker 1: are these like superstructures above the whole like thing of
Speaker 1: voting that like make it hard for people to vote,
Speaker 1: or make it inaccessible or all these different things. So um,
Speaker 1: and we need to be worried about voter suppression. Like yes, yes, um,
Speaker 1: I loved um. I loved the roll call And that
Speaker 1: was fun. It was great. There was there was so
Speaker 1: much great about it, and I thought, I did think
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden's final speech, it was a fantastic beach
Speaker 1: and it was something that I don't think a lot
Speaker 1: of people realize they needed, but you know, the American
Speaker 1: people needed to hear condolences on the unacceptable, disgusting loss
Speaker 1: of life that we have had over these past six months.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's heinous and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: been said at nausea. But it did not have to
Speaker 1: be this way. And um, you know, there is something
Speaker 1: to be said about human decency and there's certainly a
Speaker 1: lot to be said about our fucking democracy. So if
Speaker 1: you are not registered to vote and you're listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast, girl, you gotta get registered to vote, UM,
Speaker 1: and we need to make this happen. And UM, let's
Speaker 1: be really clear about the fact that you know, especially
Speaker 1: in those swing states and red states, we need you. Okay,
Speaker 1: so get out there and let's let's get this done.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be talking a lot about this in
Speaker 1: the coming months. You know, last coach is going to
Speaker 1: be UM having some people on who on a local
Speaker 1: level are going to be running for important offices. Are
Speaker 1: super excited about that. And in fact, next week, UM
Speaker 1: not running for office, but UM, we are having Gabrielle
Speaker 1: Arcasio Cortez, who is the brother of Alexandriacazio Cortez, and
Speaker 1: we are having him on the show and we're very
Speaker 1: excited to talk to him about all things. Who he
Speaker 1: nominated a f C through for brand new Congress so
Speaker 1: that she UM would eventually run for Okay, UM, I
Speaker 1: have I have something. It'll be time now for Bowen
Speaker 1: Yang's I don't think so, honey, UM, that is what
Speaker 1: happens after I go. Bowen goes and he does always
Speaker 1: a stunning job. And this is going to be smart,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be incisive, it's going to be important, it
Speaker 1: will be humorous and it will ultimately teach everyone a lesson.
Speaker 1: So we're I'm so excited and honored to now introduce
Speaker 1: Bowen Yang. Who's I don't think so, honey. Time starts now,
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Velvet couches. Dare you try
Speaker 1: and create static electricity in my house? How dare you
Speaker 1: catch the lint off of my ass and sit there
Speaker 1: and look dusty as hell when you literally just came
Speaker 1: to my house. Let me just say, let me just
Speaker 1: warn do a little consumer warning PSD for everybody. If
Speaker 1: you warner a couch hashtag, if you order a couch
Speaker 1: off of joy bird dot com, they have a wonderfuirty section,
Speaker 1: but if you select the Cobalt blue couch, it will
Speaker 1: not tell you that it is velvet. I thought I
Speaker 1: was getting a canvas, motherfucking couch. They unboxed it and oh,
Speaker 1: it's a velvet, motherfucking couch. It only only works if
Speaker 1: I am stoned off my ass. I was like the
Speaker 1: texture of it against my skin. Otherwise, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm in the eighties. I feel like I'm in Dynasty.
Speaker 1: I don't know it's going on. It takes me a
Speaker 1: second to adjust to the fact that it's velvet. I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey, velvet couch and that's that's one minute.
Speaker 1: Um wow, I have to say I like your couch.
Speaker 1: I think that it No, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a new one. I got a new
Speaker 1: one this weekend. So you mean this new one that
Speaker 1: you don't like has replaced the old one that you
Speaker 1: didn't like. Fu your life. I mean it's the this
Speaker 1: the area is great, it's comfortable to be It's more
Speaker 1: comfortable than than the last one. But I'm never going
Speaker 1: to find the right couch. I mean you can. You
Speaker 1: can do a whole reality show on this. Bowen is
Speaker 1: trying to find the right counch. Honestly, that might sell
Speaker 1: and I know it would make me sick just the
Speaker 1: right that's that's a good couch. I'm really glad I'm
Speaker 1: seeing here because in the couch and like my TV area,
Speaker 1: it's definitely like purple velvet. So I my apologies to you,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad you didn't have to see it this
Speaker 1: whole two hours because that would have just been But
Speaker 1: do you like it? Me? Yeah? Do you like? Oh?
Speaker 1: I love my velvet couch. I think it's amazing, it's comfy.
Speaker 1: She's like, you know, it's you know, it's just because
Speaker 1: everything this is this either I'm you know, she's a
Speaker 1: vegan queen, so I had I wanted to get like
Speaker 1: all the couches are vegan and blah blah. So velvet
Speaker 1: is kind of one of the best options for a
Speaker 1: vegan couch, and it's just really really co syme. It's
Speaker 1: it's a matter of personal taste, which leads me to ask,
Speaker 1: justin what is your favorite what kind of chair do
Speaker 1: you need to be in to work the best? You have?
Speaker 1: You figured this out for yourself. Yet I just like
Speaker 1: the corner of a couch to write in, like the couch,
Speaker 1: and then I can turn, you know, like with my
Speaker 1: legs up of course, like a like a teen queen,
Speaker 1: and like turn and like face the artists that I'm
Speaker 1: writing with, and like kind of in the in the
Speaker 1: corner so you can face the whole room. I can
Speaker 1: turn to the producer who's in front of me, I
Speaker 1: can turn to the side to the artists. We can
Speaker 1: get really intimate and there are queen. Yeah, she's looking,
Speaker 1: I'm looking. Yes, I'm looking. I'm looking my whole life away.
Speaker 1: That's that's my fantastic Okay, I think it's time for Justin.
Speaker 1: I think it's just I don't think so, honey. Okay,
Speaker 1: so before we start, just like you, mat, I had
Speaker 1: one that I was gonna do, but then I changed
Speaker 1: it so that what I was gonna do is YouTube eyebrows.
Speaker 1: YouTube eyebrows, you know, the Kardashian like the overbrow, the
Speaker 1: YouTube makeup brow. It's got to stop. It's um it's alarming,
Speaker 1: it's offensive. Uh, it's it's not flattering on any anyone. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's just the little one. Well, we can say
Speaker 1: happily that it's now on Nottice and it didn't get
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey today, but it is it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if it's still there in a couple of months, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just crash your show again just to talk about brows, please,
Speaker 1: and then we can talk about the nine thousand other
Speaker 1: songs that we didn't even get to today. We can
Speaker 1: truly talk to you forever, um, but for now we're
Speaker 1: about to hear uh the I don't think so honey
Speaker 1: of Justin Tranter. And let me tell you there was
Speaker 1: some contest about which one was going to be, and
Speaker 1: you heard what almost was, and now you're gonna hear
Speaker 1: what it is. So this is justin Tranter's I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey, other time starts, and now I don't
Speaker 1: think so honey. You better find some mother fucking positivity.
Speaker 1: I am elizabethan right. I wanted Elizabeth Moore and all
Speaker 1: the fucking way I didn't get her. And you know what,
Speaker 1: I am finding the positives, and Joe Biden, I am
Speaker 1: the positive Harris. I am one board, and I am
Speaker 1: fucking excited because even though it's not as progressive as
Speaker 1: we want, I am still positive because it's literally the
Speaker 1: most fucking progressive platforms major nominee has ever run on.
Speaker 1: So if you can't get positive about this platform, bitch,
Speaker 1: we'll have fun with Trump ruining your lives, taking your
Speaker 1: friends jobs away, literally killing us all with COVID. So
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Until the election happens, I
Speaker 1: don't think so with your negativity, find some mother fucking
Speaker 1: positivity and shine and because I'm going to vote with
Speaker 1: the biggest fucking smile on my face that I have
Speaker 1: ever had. And that's one minute. And you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy that you said that, because I want
Speaker 1: to say something about Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris is the
Speaker 1: most progressive person that has ever been on a Democratic
Speaker 1: ticket ever. And that is not just which which is
Speaker 1: also not to say that she was the most progressive option,
Speaker 1: but it does. It is meaningful that she is very
Speaker 1: that she is the most progressive person. To make it
Speaker 1: to that, and let's make it clear that I was
Speaker 1: definitely not saying that. I know that she was far
Speaker 1: from the most progressive person that was in the primaries.
Speaker 1: I am a Bernie Sanders voter. I am a someone
Speaker 1: who gave a lot of money to Elizabeth Warren. I'm
Speaker 1: probably very similar to the people in this zoom where
Speaker 1: we find ourselves. But here's the thing, and this is
Speaker 1: something I've been thinking a lot about. This whole thing
Speaker 1: about Kamala is a cop, sure, but I want to
Speaker 1: say something about the way that she's being talked about
Speaker 1: and depicted. Holding a woman of color responsible more responsible
Speaker 1: for a white supremacist system is in and of itself racist,
Speaker 1: and I want everyone to really kind of fucking slow
Speaker 1: their role about you know, fuck Kamala, Fuck Kamala, because
Speaker 1: you know what, how dare you for these last four
Speaker 1: or five months talk about how we have to understand
Speaker 1: the perspective of black women and we have to, you know,
Speaker 1: understand that the black experience is so different, and then
Speaker 1: say fuck her when all of a sudden she realizes
Speaker 1: the American dream of so many millions of Black women
Speaker 1: and Asian women in this country. And I just think that,
Speaker 1: you know what, you're all entitled to your opinion. Is
Speaker 1: she as progressive as we need her to be? Maybe
Speaker 1: not yet, But I am really discouraged and disappointed about
Speaker 1: take on Kamala Harris from a lot of progressive friends
Speaker 1: of mine. And yes, you are all pretty much white.
Speaker 1: And you know what, this is a different conversation for
Speaker 1: people of color that want to have this conversation. But
Speaker 1: the shifting on of Kamala Harris from fucking white progressive
Speaker 1: people and the total disregard for her perspective and her
Speaker 1: lived experience as a black woman who has gotten to
Speaker 1: where she is in an unprecedented way, shame on you,
Speaker 1: and I will say that, and you're you're you're exhibiting
Speaker 1: racist behavior. She um. She did this interview with us.
Speaker 1: It was with an activist UM back in November when
Speaker 1: she was still campaigning UM October maybe uh, And it
Speaker 1: was this. It was this activist who UM was basically
Speaker 1: trying to to abolish policing and UM as as as
Speaker 1: we know, and I think I think he even sort
Speaker 1: of brought up this thing of like, how do you
Speaker 1: square your candidacy as a black woman with UM, you know,
Speaker 1: your record and all this stuff, And she goes, well,
Speaker 1: I just want to talk. Oh no, no it was
Speaker 1: it wasn't even that. It was just about like representation,
Speaker 1: about like what it means for her to run and
Speaker 1: for her to be this contender UM. And she brought
Speaker 1: up this really interesting thing that I haven't forgotten where
Speaker 1: she was like, think about what I like to think
Speaker 1: about what you picture when I say these, for words,
Speaker 1: the boy next door, Like you have an immediate image
Speaker 1: of who that is, what they look like, where they live,
Speaker 1: all of this stuff that informs that image that's not
Speaker 1: even that specific, but you have the specifics kind of
Speaker 1: like programmed in you. And she's basically saying that, like
Speaker 1: and this this was answering again like a representation question,
Speaker 1: but it got me thinking about how she was like
Speaker 1: I am running this, I'm doing this thing that no
Speaker 1: one's ever really seen play out before in a way.
Speaker 1: And she she wasn't saying that in this sort of
Speaker 1: like you know, um um um, finger wagging way or anything.
Speaker 1: She was just saying, like, I'm figuring this out in
Speaker 1: the way that collectively we are all trying to imagine
Speaker 1: what a female candidate for president can be should be.
Speaker 1: How she's able to reckon with her past record with um,
Speaker 1: you know, her policy decisions. And then she like very
Speaker 1: gracefully talked about um, you know, the cars rolls stayed
Speaker 1: after that. It's like she's she's not like stuck in
Speaker 1: that mode of you know, district attorney, like the super
Speaker 1: cop who is like out there like prosecuting all these people.
Speaker 1: It's like she's developing in the way that you would
Speaker 1: even say Joe Biden developed where let's not forget he
Speaker 1: was the one who sort of broke rank and said
Speaker 1: same sex marriage should be legal, and then that forced
Speaker 1: Obama's hand, and then you had a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: a few years later, same sex marriage be legalized. It's like,
Speaker 1: these things are incremental, and yes, this is the most
Speaker 1: progressive ticket, and it's not as progressive as it could
Speaker 1: have been or maybe even should be. But it's like
Speaker 1: it's an incremental change that can still be ledgered against
Speaker 1: all of this other stuff that's going on. So that
Speaker 1: that that that's been helpful for me. Well, I think too.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's incremental in comparison what we want when
Speaker 1: you when you put it up against what we're going
Speaker 1: to get if we don't all get kindness excited, we
Speaker 1: have to be excited, because I think we should be excited.
Speaker 1: It's the most progressive thing we've ever seen. It's not
Speaker 1: what we want, but it could. It's it's the most
Speaker 1: we've ever gotten. Like, and if we don't get this,
Speaker 1: if we don't all get fucking excited and rally behind it,
Speaker 1: then we're you know, we it's the you know, Trump's
Speaker 1: has over a hundred and sixty attacks on the lgbtwo
Speaker 1: Q community and it's not going to stop and let
Speaker 1: alone the racism, let alone the death, let alone all
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I feel like, yes, we want better,
Speaker 1: the sheer incompetence, sheer incompetence. Yeah, it's like we just
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm excited and I can't wait. Yeah, vote vote,
Speaker 1: like I've never voted before, but I love this. I
Speaker 1: love this positivity frame around it. That's perfect, It's wonderful.
Speaker 1: And you you bring this to everybody with your with
Speaker 1: your work and a justin tran where we thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming. What a fun time, so fun,
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much, so wonderful. What a living
Speaker 1: legend like Brittany, same all legends right here, too good.
Speaker 1: I mean, let me just say one thing, and that
Speaker 1: is this. We always and every episode with a song,
Speaker 1: we always go intolinline and that's It's actually all I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do because I'm not going to insult our guests.
Speaker 1: But to hear that song listen to Selena Gomez. I
Speaker 1: think it sounded great. And I've heard I've seen videos
Speaker 1: of you doing your Christmas show where you sing your
Speaker 1: ass off. I know, I know. And baby also too,
Speaker 1: you know all those backing vocals, the big choir in
Speaker 1: Lizzie to Love Me, that's me and Julia doing it.
Speaker 1: There we go and to hear more of that, you guys,
Speaker 1: listen the album rare As. The song is Lucy to
Speaker 1: Love Me. This is Kazy kaz alright, Bye bye