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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk Nashville.

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Speaker 2: Hi, this is Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking a

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Speaker 2: Walk Nashville, and I want to give a special shout

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Speaker 2: out to Sennheiser today. I am using their profile USB

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Speaker 2: podcast Mike, and I'm loving how versatile it is, how

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Speaker 2: it's sounding, and how it is on the go. So

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Speaker 2: thank you Senheiser. Today with me, I have a very

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Speaker 2: special guest, Mary go Shay. She is a Grammy nominated

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Speaker 2: American folk singer, songwriter and author. Her songs have been

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Speaker 2: covered by performers such as Tim McGraw, Blake Shelton, Kathy

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Speaker 2: Mattea Boy, George, Jimmy Buffett, Betty Levette, Candy Stayton, and

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Speaker 2: Amy Helm to name a few. Her Grammy nominated twenty

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Speaker 2: eighteen album Rifles and Rosary Beats was co written with

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Speaker 2: military veterans in their families. Join me as we dive

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Speaker 2: into her story today.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Taking a Walk Nashville with your hosts singer

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Speaker 1: songwriter Sarah Harrelson.

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Speaker 2: Mary, thank you so much for being on Taking a

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Speaker 2: Walk Nashville today. So your roots run from Louisiana to Boston,

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Speaker 2: and you attended culinary school in Boston. Were you already

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Speaker 2: writing music at this time when you were in culinary

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Speaker 2: school or was Dixie Kitchen the name of the restaurant,

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Speaker 2: and also your first album, Was that kind of the

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Speaker 2: turning point for you to start your career in music.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. I have a really unusual story in

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Speaker 3: terms of music business. Anyway, I was in the restaurant

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Speaker 3: business in Boston. I'm from Louisiana, and I made a

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Speaker 3: decision to go to chef school in the Boston area

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Speaker 3: to to get trained. I'd always worked in restaurants, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't have the culinary expertise I needed to be

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Speaker 3: a chef. I was more of a manager. So I

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Speaker 3: went to chef school and the lead chef and the

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Speaker 3: chef school told me that what I had to do

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Speaker 3: was follow my heart. And what I had in my heart,

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Speaker 3: he said, was Louisiana. So we found investors and ended

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Speaker 3: up with a Cajun style restaurant in Boston. And that

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Speaker 3: was nineteen ninety and so the Cajun style restaurant we

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Speaker 3: called Dixie Kitchen after the Little Feet song Dixie Chicken.

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Speaker 3: Loel George was a hero of mine and I loved

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Speaker 3: the Little Feet and that song came on when I

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Speaker 3: was trying to name the restaurant, and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: Dixie Chicken, Dixie Kitchen, And so we had a ten

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Speaker 3: year run with the Dixie Kitchen. After I graduated chef school,

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Speaker 3: well somewhere in there, I got sober. And after I

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Speaker 3: got sober, I started writing songs, and so I had

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Speaker 3: the restaurant before I ever became a songwriter. Uh. And

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Speaker 3: in the process of running and cooking at the restaurant,

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Speaker 3: I started going to open mics. I had a lot

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Speaker 3: of time on my hands having gotten sober, and I

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Speaker 3: fell passionately in love with music and songwriting. And I

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Speaker 3: mean I already was, but until I got sober, I

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Speaker 3: wasn't capable of writing songs. Writing songs for me takes

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Speaker 3: a quite a bit of focus, attention, and commitment, and

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Speaker 3: I was just a I could run a restaurant, but

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Speaker 3: I couldn't write a song. It's a if you ever

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Speaker 3: watched Anthony Bourdain, you could see how drunks and addicts

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Speaker 3: can run restaurants, but men, look, it's harder to focus

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Speaker 3: for long periods of time on on on mental work

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Speaker 3: like restaurants become physical work pretty quickly. Anyway, long story, short,

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Speaker 3: I became more in love with music and song than

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Speaker 3: then Jambalai and gumbo U. And so in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and one, I came to Nashville and I decided to

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Speaker 3: take a leap. I was forty years old, and that's

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Speaker 3: what makes my story unusual. Who starts at forty in music? Well,

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Speaker 3: I did, and you know what, I'm sixty four now.

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Speaker 3: I've been in Nashville since two thousand and one. I've

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Speaker 3: made a living making music since the day I got here.

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Speaker 3: I continue to and it's just been a real good

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Speaker 3: decision for me to commit full time, full on to

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Speaker 3: being a songwriter.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it takes so much time to run a

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Speaker 2: restaurant that it would be hard to focus on music

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Speaker 2: at the same time. I do still do a lot

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Speaker 2: of cooking today, or is it just something you do

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Speaker 2: for fun?

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Speaker 3: Nope, I don't really mess with it. I sort of

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Speaker 3: put it down and left it down. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: can do a dinner party, I can do basic stuff

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Speaker 3: around that kitchen, but I don't really have the passion

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Speaker 3: for it like I once did. And so I'm a

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Speaker 3: competent cook. I'm able to pull something together successfully, but

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Speaker 3: I don't really love it. And so I have my

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Speaker 3: favorite places I go to around town. We go out

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Speaker 3: to eat all the time, like we're spoiled in that way.

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Speaker 2: What are your favorite restaurants in Nashville?

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Speaker 3: Well, I, first of all like not to have to

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Speaker 3: fight parking, So let's start with Nashville has become a

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Speaker 3: major metropolitan area, and parking has become a major headache

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Speaker 3: like every other major metropolitan area. If the parking costs

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Speaker 3: more than the dinner, what are we doing? So I

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Speaker 3: like places that it's on the outskirts able to park

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Speaker 3: that tend to be I fancy restaurants that are owner operated,

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Speaker 3: where there's someone in the kitchen or in the dining

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Speaker 3: room that has their eyes on all things that owns

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Speaker 3: the place, and that those places tend to obviously not

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Speaker 3: be corporate, and they have something that I am drawn

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Speaker 3: to as a a former restaurant tour which is someone

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Speaker 3: who really loves their attachment to what they their hands

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Speaker 3: and their heart and the work is reflected in the restaurant.

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Speaker 3: So the places I tend to go to are like that.

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Speaker 3: My favorite of favorites is Margo's on the East Side.

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Speaker 3: There's a Gilly wasn't Dave Rowlins on a studio right

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Speaker 3: next to Margo's, a woodland studio, and in the studio

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Speaker 3: parking lot you spend like eight ten bucks and you

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Speaker 3: can get a parking spot easily. Just walk to Margos,

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Speaker 3: have a long, full meal. And she's always been an

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Speaker 3: extraordinary chef, and she's announced her retirement this summer. I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know what's Nashville about Margo's for me,

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so many good restaurants and Nashtau including that one.

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Speaker 2: A lot of good casiun style restaurants here too. There's

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Speaker 2: voodoo gumbo I love over here in Belleville. But going

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Speaker 2: back to music, you know, you've received many awards for

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Speaker 2: your own music, have had many other artists cut your songs.

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Speaker 2: But did you ever think your music would take you

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Speaker 2: down this path or was music for you merely saving

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Speaker 2: you on your journey with sobriety.

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Speaker 3: Well it's interesting because I started later. I had no

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Speaker 3: idea if I could pull this off, when this would

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Speaker 3: be one one hell of a hat trick, If I

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Speaker 3: could start at forty, come to Nashville openly gay back

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Speaker 3: then was not exactly a career move in Nashville. When

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Speaker 3: I came here, they called this town the buckle of

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Speaker 3: the Bible Belt, and so I knew I had some

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Speaker 3: obstacles age and and and also being openly gay my

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Speaker 3: whole life. There was no closet big enough for this,

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Speaker 3: So I had to I had to overcome what I

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Speaker 3: think were obstacles, which which which turned out to not

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Speaker 3: be such a big deal. What I learned quickly about Nashville. Nashville,

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Speaker 3: if you have the songs, they let you in. So unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: I had some songs that opened doors and that allowed

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Speaker 3: me an opportunity to be invited in. And once I

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Speaker 3: got in, I was able to make the most of

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Speaker 3: the connections I made. And I think that's because of

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Speaker 3: my age and business experience that worked to my advant

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Speaker 3: My age worked to my advantage. And I think my

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Speaker 3: sexuality has very little or nothing to do with my music.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't make music about sex. I make

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Speaker 3: music about the human heart, and it jumps over all

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Speaker 3: those things that we think divide us, they actually are

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Speaker 3: false constructs. Nobody has ever, I think, blocked me because

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Speaker 3: of who I am in Nashville. I think I've been

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Speaker 3: given opportunities based on my work and that that feels

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Speaker 3: fair to me. And so yeah, I came here with

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Speaker 3: some songs that that that helped me get in.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure it's been so healing too, just being

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Speaker 2: able to write about your experiences with getting sober, being

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Speaker 2: openly gay, even just being maybe a female in the

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Speaker 2: music industry.

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Speaker 3: I always tell people that if I were pressed to

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Speaker 3: ask the real mountain to climb, it's not being gay,

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Speaker 3: it's being a woman. It's a very male oriented business,

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Speaker 3: and it's a very male dominated business, especially in Nashville.

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Speaker 3: But for me, music and song, as you have referenced

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Speaker 3: a couple of times now, have been more about healing,

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Speaker 3: about truth and beauty, about creating art over hits and commerce.

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Speaker 3: And because I'm focused on the art of song, I

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Speaker 3: have a different career than what you would think of

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Speaker 3: as a Nashville type career. I'm a troubadour. I traveled

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Speaker 3: the world with a guitar, a spotlight, and a bottle

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Speaker 3: of water, and I have stories and I tell them

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Speaker 3: and people connect to those stories, not in large numbers,

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Speaker 3: but in numbers large enough for me to not have

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Speaker 3: to do anything but that I've I've found music and

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Speaker 3: song to be very healing from me personally. But then

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Speaker 3: when you put it in the world with that as

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Speaker 3: your mission statement, it does things that other people appreciate

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Speaker 3: other than just entertainment. And so that's been my mission

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Speaker 3: and it's I think it's been a great source of

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Speaker 3: my success is that I'm not aiming for a marketplace

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Speaker 3: that's hit strict, that's hit driven. I'm a storyteller, and

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Speaker 3: if you can write and tell a good story, people

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Speaker 3: love stories. You know. We're just in the desert in

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Speaker 3: West Texas, in a old silver mining town and it's

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Speaker 3: just a bunch of cowboys and you know, mice and

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Speaker 3: rattlesnakes and we saw it tarantula and a lot of dust,

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Speaker 3: and you know, this is a remote, remote place to Linguo, Texas.

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Speaker 3: And I'm in this old theater that used to not

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Speaker 3: have a roof, called the Starlight Theater. It's half restaurant,

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Speaker 3: half bar. We're playing in the bar, and I watch

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Speaker 3: these cowboys like tough guys, these guys living out in

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Speaker 3: the elements. Once the stories I start telling the stories,

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Speaker 3: you can just see people almost become children listening to stories.

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Speaker 3: Stories captivate people. A story well, toad acrosses all boundaries

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Speaker 3: and I just know and believe in the magic of

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Speaker 3: good stories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely agree with that, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: the key is to write songs that are not only

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Speaker 2: about your own experiences, but ones that other people can

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Speaker 2: relate to. And you definitely do that with blending genres

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Speaker 2: like country, Americana and folk.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a

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Speaker 1: Walk Nashville Podcast. Welcome back to Take in a Walk Nashville.

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Speaker 2: Your twenty eighteen Grammy nominated album Rifles and Rosary Beads

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Speaker 2: that was co written with US veterans and their families,

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Speaker 2: arising out of your involvement with the organization Songwriting with Soldiers,

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Speaker 2: And you noted that every day, on average, twenty two

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Speaker 2: veterans commits suicide and a portion from this album benefits

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Speaker 2: this wonderful organization and how to be healing for the

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Speaker 2: veterans to be able to put their experiences and their

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Speaker 2: trauma into music. So how did you get involved with

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Speaker 2: Songwriting with Soldiers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's a nonprofit that was started by

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Speaker 3: a dear friend of mine named Darden Smith. He stumbled

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Speaker 3: on this opportunity to co write a song with someone

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Speaker 3: who was in the military, and he realized, Wow, there's

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Speaker 3: something here that feels powerful, these things that we find

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Speaker 3: each other connecting on. He thought he had nothing in

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Speaker 3: common with the soldier, with someone in the military, and

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Speaker 3: he found he had everything in common. And so that

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Speaker 3: was an illuminating moment for the songwriter. And so the

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Speaker 3: songs that we write with the veterans help us as

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Speaker 3: much as them. Really, we just find each other there.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, the the process is one of really truly

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Speaker 3: listening and connecting. And I would like to just sort

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Speaker 3: of put a fine point on the word healing. It

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Speaker 3: gets tossed around a lot, to the point of almost meaninglessness.

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Speaker 3: So I try not to say healing because it sounds slippery,

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Speaker 3: and I think of the process more as alchemy. A

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Speaker 3: song can take your darkest moment, the hardest thing you've

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Speaker 3: ever gone through, and turn it into something beautiful and

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Speaker 3: useful in the world. And that type of transformation is magic.

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Speaker 3: I mean, everybody knows that when you listen to the blues,

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Speaker 3: you feel better. That is a paradox. Why listening into sad,

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Speaker 3: slow songs about misery, why would that make me feel better? Well,

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Speaker 3: let's start with one. You know you're not alone. Two,

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Speaker 3: there is something about being seen, heard, and known in

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Speaker 3: a song that is a relief. So alchemy is a

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Speaker 3: magic that the arts can bring to people who are

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Speaker 3: dealing with heavy loads and trauma. And I love the

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Speaker 3: alchemy of songwriting. I teach a lot of songwriting now,

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Speaker 3: and what I find is that if we write about

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Speaker 3: personal stuff, we're only gonna have so far over reach.

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Speaker 3: If we write about deeply personal stuff, we hit what

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Speaker 3: is I think of the human experience that transcends the personal,

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Speaker 3: and this is where we find each other in the

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Speaker 3: stuff that's deeply personal that we tend to keep a

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Speaker 3: lid on because we don't know if it's something we

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Speaker 3: should even talk about. It's awkward, it's not something you

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Speaker 3: bring up at a dinner party or a barroom conversation.

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Speaker 3: But in a song, this is the appropriate place to

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Speaker 3: do it. And it transcends the self. It hits the

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Speaker 3: human condition, and that's where we meet and find each other,

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Speaker 3: and that's where we start to alchemize things and transformation

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Speaker 3: is possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I love that you bring that up. And

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Speaker 2: you know, when you're co writing with professional songwriters, you

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Speaker 2: get into a habit of opening up to each other.

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Speaker 2: But when you're co writing with veterans who maybe have

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Speaker 2: never written a song before, maybe it's hard with their

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Speaker 2: past experience to deeply open up. So did you find

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Speaker 2: that maybe it was hard to dig deep with them?

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Speaker 2: And what was your experience like putting their story into

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Speaker 2: lyrics and music.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't hard at all. And here's here's why the

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Speaker 3: songwriter in that scenario shows up as a midwife. We're

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Speaker 3: there to bear witness and and to patiently sit and listen.

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Speaker 3: And if you've ever really been listened to, I mean

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Speaker 3: people pay therapist two hundred dollars an hour to listen intensely,

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Speaker 3: if you've ever really truly deeply been listened to by

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Speaker 3: someone who's in non judgment of whatever they say is okay.

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Speaker 3: There there is no morality clause in songwriting. We're there

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Speaker 3: to listen, bear witness, and take what we hear and

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Speaker 3: turn it into melody and poetry and song. So so

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Speaker 3: they open up because the song opens them up. We

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Speaker 3: play start to play back what we hear them saying.

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Speaker 3: It's a mirror and the songwriter's job is to not

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Speaker 3: insert self. We know nothing, absolutely nothing about them or

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Speaker 3: about military service. So We're not gonna apply our own

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Speaker 3: experience to that. We're gonna take their experience and just

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Speaker 3: ask gentle questions so that we can better understand them

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Speaker 3: and write a better song. When you're truly witnessed and

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Speaker 3: heard and you know you're not judged, you'll talk maybe

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Speaker 3: not about feelings, but about experience, and the feelings will

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Speaker 3: come from the story of the experience. We don't need

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Speaker 3: to talk about feelings. We need to show and tell

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Speaker 3: the story. The feelings are a result of this story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure so beautiful being for them to be

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Speaker 2: able to hear their story come into life and something

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Speaker 2: they can listen to and have forever.

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Speaker 3: And it absolutely and it is a universal experience. That's

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Speaker 3: where the alchemy comes when they realize that their story

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Speaker 3: is not just theirs, it is a universal experience of

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Speaker 3: human beings who have been through what they've been through.

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Speaker 3: This is what happens, and this is how people feel

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Speaker 3: in that situation. That it de personalizes it, it universalizes it.

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Speaker 3: And they realize really quickly that telling their story in

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Speaker 3: their song helps other veterans, which is huge for them,

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Speaker 3: because our veterans here in this country are volunteers, they're

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Speaker 3: not drafted, and these people are fundamentally and intrinsically built

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Speaker 3: to serve. They want to serve, and if telling their

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Speaker 3: story is serving other veterans, they become much more willing

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Speaker 3: to do so. And it is serving other veterans. They

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Speaker 3: see themselves in these songs, and they know they're not alone.

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Speaker 3: This is the power of music and song.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's so beautiful and such an important cause. In

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Speaker 2: addition to being an artist and songwriter, you are also

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Speaker 2: an author publishing your book Saved by a Song the

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Speaker 2: art and healing power of songwriting. I think this book

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Speaker 2: is for anyone who loves music or maybe they're going

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Speaker 2: through recovery themselves. So was it cathartic for you to

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Speaker 2: write about your story and book form and share it

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Speaker 2: with the world.

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Speaker 3: Maybe? I think more it was an organizing principle. After

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Speaker 3: teaching for decades and working with veterans for for ten

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Speaker 3: twelve years, I had a lot of experiences that taught

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Speaker 3: me things. So I learned a lot and maintaining sobriety

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Speaker 3: and recovery now for many, many decades, I've learned a lot.

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Speaker 3: And so the book is an organ you organize your

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Speaker 3: your understandings when you write a book, and so it

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Speaker 3: allowed me to to sort of go, oh, I see

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Speaker 3: this happened, led to this, led to this, which is

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Speaker 3: how I ended up here, which is where I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be all along. But I wouldn't have gotten here

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Speaker 3: without this and this. Writing your story helps you understand

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Speaker 3: your story, and I think it helps you to make

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Speaker 3: sense of who you are. So Catharsis is not exactly

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Speaker 3: the experience. Catharsis is more more from songs. I think

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Speaker 3: a book is an organizing principle in him, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's also an ambassador. My book is an ambassador

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Speaker 3: for me. It comes in before me, introduces me to people,

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Speaker 3: so they feel they already know me if they've read

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Speaker 3: the book, because they know what I know about me,

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Speaker 3: and also my understanding. The book is really about my

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Speaker 3: understanding of art ands and particularly song is a transformative

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Speaker 3: medium that's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Where can people find this book?

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Speaker 3: Everywhere? You can get it anywhere you just Google saved

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Speaker 3: by a song. I have them on my way site

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Speaker 3: there Amazon, It's on Audible. Uh. The the book I

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Speaker 3: think is included if you have a Spotify account, you

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Speaker 3: can listen to it through Audible. These uh, you know

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Speaker 3: there there is a hundred ways to get the book,

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Speaker 3: or there are one hundred ways to get the book

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Speaker 3: if you just google it. It's everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hope people will go check it out.

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Speaker 2: And this year you have a busy tour schedule with

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Speaker 2: your partner Jamie Harris, who is also going to be

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Speaker 2: on Taking a Walk Nashville. Are you excited to keep

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Speaker 2: performing together this year?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I can't wait to get it going again.

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Speaker 3: We've taken about five weeks off over the holidays. I'm

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Speaker 3: ready to. I'm ready to. We played in the Desert,

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Speaker 3: but that was one of I'm ready to be on

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Speaker 3: the road again. I like. I like my job a lot.

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Speaker 3: I like having Jamie with me. We we play and

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Speaker 3: sing together, and she'd also starts the shows with with

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Speaker 3: her own songs. It's it's a real privilege and blessing

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Speaker 3: to have a partner to travel with. UH. And we

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Speaker 3: do great out there, and we have a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: We meet a lot of people and we see the world.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a it's such a I don't know, it's

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Speaker 3: a it's a dream come true. And and I couldn't

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Speaker 3: have imagined how good. Uh, this this would be. You know,

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Speaker 3: when I started all those years ago, I was just

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Speaker 3: hoping against hope that I could could pull this off

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Speaker 3: in a way that I didn't have to get another job.

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Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't have big, huge, massive dreams of

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Speaker 3: of of giant you know, success, and and and it's

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Speaker 3: gotten much bigger than I ever imagined it could. And

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Speaker 3: and I'm just deeply grateful that we get to keep going.

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Speaker 2: That's wonderful. Yeah, people can find all of your upcoming

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Speaker 2: show and tour dates on your website to see if

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Speaker 2: they're if you're playing in their area. Mary. My last

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Speaker 2: question I always love to ask my guests this, since

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Speaker 2: we're on taking a walk Nashville, do you have a

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Speaker 2: favorite place that you love to take a walk in Nashville.

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Speaker 3: Well, I tend to go to Warner Park. That is

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Speaker 3: a series of parks that were donated to the city

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Speaker 3: a century ago, I guess. And there's a Red Trail

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Speaker 3: which is four and a half miles deep into the woods,

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Speaker 3: quite hilly, always hard, and never an easy hike, but wow,

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Speaker 3: after you do it, you've done some aerobic hiking in

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Speaker 3: the deep woods. And it's twenty minutes from my house.

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Speaker 3: Maybe less with traffic, maybe fifteen with no traffic, I mean.

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Speaker 3: And then there's the White Trail at Warner Park that

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Speaker 3: you can get at the end of Bellemead Boulevard. You

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Speaker 3: just go on down. You see a flag pole of

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Speaker 3: American Flag Park and that's the White Trail. And the

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Speaker 3: White Trail is two and a half miles much less challenging,

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Speaker 3: but it's also hilly and uh, you know, might even

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Speaker 3: go there today. Uh, it's a beautiful walk in the

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Speaker 3: woods and it's very removed from development. So there's owls

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Speaker 3: and I'm stepping over snakes and there's just beautiful. Every

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Speaker 3: single day the forest changes and so there's there's a

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Speaker 3: nature that is untouched very close to the city. We're

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Speaker 3: very lucky to have Warner part that's my favorite hikes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those are absolutely two of my favorite trails. And

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Speaker 2: like you said, when the seasons changed, the trail even

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Speaker 2: looks different even if you've done it a few times.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that that Red Trail. Once you get to

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Speaker 2: the end, you're tired of the hill. So it's great exercise, it's.

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Speaker 3: A real hike, and and it's got it it's got

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Speaker 3: such changing scenery as you go it's anything but boring.

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Speaker 3: I love it, but you do have to watch out,

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Speaker 3: especially in the spring. There are timber rattlesnakes out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I've come up on one once, what that was rattling.

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Speaker 3: And I've come up on one that was on the

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Speaker 3: trail as well, So you've got to keep it's smart

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Speaker 3: not to wear earbuds because the snake's when they rattle,

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Speaker 3: say hey, I don't want to hurt you, right the

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Speaker 3: hell away from me. You've got to be able to

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Speaker 3: hear them, especially in the spring as they're coming out

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Speaker 3: of their sleep. But you know, if you're aware, it's

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Speaker 3: a beautiful, beautiful place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. You always one of my favorites and

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Speaker 2: the popular answer here on the podcast. Well, Mary, thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for being on Taking a Walk Nashville today.

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Speaker 2: I hope everyone will check out your music and books,

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Speaker 2: and I've appreciated having you on today.

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Speaker 3: It's nice speaking with you, Sarah, but thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with Sarah Harrelson.

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Speaker 1: Please check out our other shows produced by Buzznight Media Productions,

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00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: Comedy Save Me and Music Saved Me hosted by Lynn Hoffman,

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00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: and Take it a Walk hosted by you Truly Buzznight.

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Speaker 1: All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and are

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Speaker 1: part of the iHeart podcast network