1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: In this podcast, we're going to talk frankly but sensitively 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: about some tough issues including sexual abuse, drugs, and suicide. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Check out this podcast notes page for information on mental 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: health resources in the queer community. 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: This is Shattering the System. I'm Sinari Glinton. In our 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 2: previous episode, we learned that a twenty six year old 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: gay black man, Jamel Moore, was found dead in the 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: apartment of Ed Buck at one two three four North 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: Laurel Avenue in West Hollywood. Buck, who is white, was 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: sixty two years old at the time, and he had 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: kind of turned his home into a sort of drug 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 2: or sex dungeon on the street. They called it the 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: Gates of Hell. Now in his apartment he displayed photos 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: of prominent politicians, the trappings that came with being a 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: political donor. And it's interesting to me how the media 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: covered Melmore's death. Let's get into it. 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 3: It has been three months since twenty six year old 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: Will Moore found dead the West Hollywood home wealthy democratic. 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 4: Donor at Buck. 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 5: Initially, his death was ruled accidental, but they better mean overdose. 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 6: Moore's mother, Letitia Nickson, has pressed police to continue the 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 6: investigation into worse On Jamil's or theorious death. 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: Jamel Moore is dead. Then five days later the case 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 2: is closed, ruled an accidental overdose. Now that's despite Jamel 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: Moore's diary. That's despite a bag of evidence. That's despite 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: other victims who'd been in this very apartment and have 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 2: stories to tell. Ed Buck was out in the streets 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: and he was becoming kind of a local news celebrity. 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: Jamel Moore's mother would begin a campaign not only to 30 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: get ed Buck put in jail, but to get the 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: politicians who gave them money held accountable. The local news 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: site U Hillville covered this very vigil held in front 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: of the Los Angeles County, the Sheriff's. 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 6: Office, the lord to cover this family with club and 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 6: peace even in this difficult times. 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: Now, this is Letician Nixon, Jamel Moore's mother speaking to reporters. 37 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 7: This is something that shouldn't have happened. It just shouldn't 38 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 7: have happened. My son fouled police reports. It's crazy how 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 7: the whole entire situation was handled. My son's dead, and 40 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 7: five days later the case is closed. 41 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: I'm standing in the spot where Letitia Nixon spoke those 42 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: very words literally across the Street. A few years later, 43 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: on the fourth anniversary of her son's death, she would 44 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: get a measure of justice for her son. Ed Bud 45 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: would be convicted of federal charges, including the death of 46 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: Jamel Moore, but justice was not swift at all. Eighteen 47 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: months after Jamel Moore was found dead in his apartment, 48 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: another black man, Timothy Dean, was also pronounced dead from 49 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: an overdose in the exact same apartment in ed Buck's 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: apartment in West Hollywood. And even after a second death, 51 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: ed Buck walked the streets with impunity. 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 5: And that's what I saw ed Buck as being in 53 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 5: this case. He was an offender who had acted with 54 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 5: impunity for nearly a decade. And I was made aware 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 5: through the course of this case that ed Buck is 56 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 5: not alone and he is not the only person victimizing 57 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 5: underserved populations in Los Angeles. So this was a really 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 5: important bell weather and deterrent for other people who would 59 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 5: victimize these populations. 60 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: This is shattering the system, the rise and fall of 61 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: ed Buck. That's after this breaking years ago, when I 62 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 2: was a young local public radio reporter, I went to 63 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: a local journalism awards banquet. Didn't have a car, so 64 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: a newspaper reporter offered to give me a ride home. 65 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: Her name was Linda Lutton. She'd been the big star 66 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: of the evening. Actually, she won the prize for investigative journalism. 67 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: She had won that award because she helped to put 68 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: a local official in jail with her reporter. Now, as 69 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: we're driving home to the South Side Chicago, I remember 70 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: asking her an important question for me, which was what 71 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: made her look into this. I don't know local school 72 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: official so closely. What a tipped her off? I asked her, 73 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 2: and she looked at me and matter of factly said, 74 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: scenari he was an asshole. It's hard to be an 75 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: asshole in only one part of your life, you see. 76 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: The thing is you get the sense, at least from 77 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: everyone I've talked to in this story. Even before the deaths, 78 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: ed Buck was kind of an asshole. 79 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 4: He was a troublesome kid. 80 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 8: His mother, interviewed over the years, said she knew when 81 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 8: the phone would ring it would be the school reporting 82 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 8: another problem. But her son, she'd pick up the phone saying, now, 83 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 8: what's he doing? So he was a little bit difficult. 84 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 8: He was a very handsome young man. He became a model. 85 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: Hank Scott reported extensively on that book, his political connections 86 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: and the deaths in his home. Scott started the local 87 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: website Wehillville, which covers West Hollywood. And I always think 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: the names are important, So let's begin. Edward Bernard Peter 89 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: Buck Milter. That's Ed Buck was born in August twenty fourth, 90 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four, in Steubenville, Ohio, which is just about 91 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 2: a half an hour or so from Pittsburgh. Other famous 92 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: residents from Steubenville late Great Dean Mark. Now. When Buck 93 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: was six, he moved from Steubenville with his parents, one brother, 94 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: and two sisters to Phoenix, Arizona. He went to a 95 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: Catholic grade school and North High in Phoenix. By all accounts, 96 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 2: his family is pretty middle class. My childhood was uneventful 97 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: as hell. That's at least what Ed Buck told the 98 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: Arizona Republic in June nineteen eighty seven. Now, Buck would 99 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: later say that he was molested as a child, and 100 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: he would describe his father as a longtime alcohol and 101 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: when reading about his youth, you kind of get the 102 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: sense it was anything but uneventful. Buck came out of 103 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 2: the closet to his family in the early seventies. He 104 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: would eventually shorten his name from Buck Melter to Buck. 105 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: Let's go back to Hank Scott, the founder of the 106 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: local news website Hill vill. 107 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 4: He spent a number of years in Europe modeling and 108 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 4: touring work, living in Paris and other places. 109 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 8: And then he came back and he had friend of 110 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 8: his had a small business, an odd business that involved 111 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 8: documenting driver's license information for an insurance company, strange things, 112 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 8: and the business was struggling. Ed stepped in to help 113 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 8: the guy. He bought it from me, and it took off, and. 114 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 4: Then sold it and he ended up at. 115 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 8: The age of thirty maybe thirty two, he ended up 116 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 8: a million dollars times pocket and that, you know, that 117 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 8: changed his life. 118 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: It was this money that would allow Buck to launch 119 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: a recall campaign against the then governor of Arizona, Evan Meetcha. Now, 120 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: at the time, Buck was a registered Republican and the 121 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: Republican governor, among other things, was opposed to the Martin 122 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: Luther King Holiday. Meechim even defended the use of the 123 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: word Picaninny. Anyway, Buck would lead a campaign to get 124 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: Meetum recalled. Now, this was alongside of an impeachment and 125 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: a federal indictment. Now politics being politics, Buck was attacked 126 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: by Beecham, calling Buck and his supporters quote a band 127 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: of homosexuals and dissident Democrats. The Arizona campaign will give 128 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: Buck his first taste of the spotlight, and in an 129 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: interview with the Arizona Republic at the time, when asked 130 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: if he would ever run for office, he said, quote, 131 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: I think I'd be more effective as a private citizen. 132 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: The recall movement has shown how people can get together 133 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: and change things. I know how to do that now 134 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: it may come in handy later. All of that attention 135 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: that Buck received was very unwanted. The bright lights might 136 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: just reveal that he had had a few run ins 137 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: with law. 138 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 8: Ed Buck was arrested at one point for using a 139 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 8: fraudulent prescription to get some drugs from pharmacy. Ed Buck 140 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 8: got in trouble in an adult store when a cop 141 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 8: saw him grabbing the crotch of another man nearby. So 142 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 8: you know there were those sorts of issues at the time. 143 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 8: But he then when Meetam was pushed out office, Edbuck 144 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 8: decided to move to where well, Hollywood with better place, 145 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 8: and he moved to a place where he lived for 146 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 8: another thirty years on Lowell Avenue apartment in a fairly 147 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 8: ordinary building, looking very fancy. 148 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 4: And he slowly got involved in civic life. 149 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: Can you discuss, So what is a gay man, an 150 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: out gay man getting involved in civic life. Tell me 151 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: what that looks like in West Hollywood. 152 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 4: For ed Buck, Oh, it looks great West Hollywood. 153 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 8: I mean, you know, out came in with money, getting 154 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 8: involved in civic life. I mean it made him a 155 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 8: welcome figure. There were a couple of causes he cared about. 156 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 8: One was building Terra. You know about that. It's an old, 157 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 8: old building. Who's owner. You didn't sign a written contract 158 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 8: with you orally it gave it to the City of 159 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 8: West Hollywood as long as it would preserve it. 160 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 4: The city decided it. 161 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 8: Wanted to turn it into the apartments and build housing 162 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 8: for low income seniors. And of course the neighbors who 163 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 8: owned their own homes bought that and launched a campaign. 164 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 8: Terror took the City of West Hollywood at court. Ed 165 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 8: Buck supported it, and Taror won. 166 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: So let's think about this for a minute. There's a 167 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 2: building called Tara in ed Buck's neighborhood. Now this is Hollywood, 168 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: so they call it that because it looks like the Tara, 169 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: you know, the one from Gone with the win well 170 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: Ed Buck was living in a rent stabilized apartment on 171 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: the same street, actively working against and helping to stop 172 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: a plan to convert the building into housing for low 173 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: income seniors. And he was living again in a rent 174 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: stabilized apartment. 175 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 8: It now remains an empty building. While there's a struggle 176 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 8: for people to find housing in West Hollywood, terras, it 177 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 8: there empty, and so he got involved in that. And 178 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 8: then he had a passion for animal rights and this 179 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 8: was his big, big thing. So he was involved in 180 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 8: an animal rights group, and he decided to form an organization. 181 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 4: That campaigned for a band and the sale of Furr 182 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 4: in West Hollywood. 183 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 8: Furr was not something most West Hollywood residents went out 184 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 8: and bought, but a section of West Hollywood adjacent to 185 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 8: Beverly Hill, the design district, was full of very affluent 186 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 8: stores like those in Beverly Hills, and somebody flying in from. 187 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 4: New York might go by for a. 188 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 8: Code and had led a campaign to stopped the sale 189 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 8: of her and West taller Wood became the first city 190 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 8: in the nation to ban you know, I haven't been 191 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 8: a resident of West Holloway for a long time, and 192 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 8: I will tell you that I'm so proud of my 193 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 8: city right now. 194 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: Ed Buck clearly saw the fur band as a badge 195 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: of honor. We'll hear more about his animal rights activism later. 196 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: Hank Scott, the journalist, says ed Buck early on developed 197 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 2: a reputation for being difficult. 198 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 8: Also said he was a really difficult guy. 199 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 4: So, uh, you know a number of people. 200 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 8: Steve Martin, who ran for city council long city council, 201 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 8: talked about the difficulty of feeling with it. 202 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 4: Book, A number of people who difficult difficult. 203 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 8: He would get angry, he would get nasty, he would 204 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 8: get semi violent. There were a couple of instances where 205 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 8: he appeared at city council meetings and made statements, and 206 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 8: they were one city council member who asked that I 207 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 8: not declared her name, but I think everybody knows. 208 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: She actually had the sheriff. 209 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 8: Steputies escort with the car after the city now council 210 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 8: meeting to hear the Dead Book to attack her. I 211 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 8: met someone else who was very involved in the animal 212 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 8: rights movement. With that who's no one even lives in 213 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 8: the United States, but she told me that she feared 214 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 8: violence from Medoc. They would get in what she thought 215 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 8: of as a minor disagreement and he would get violent. 216 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 8: So this was a part of his personality, and I 217 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 8: think maybe it. 218 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 4: Got worse when the drug used took all. But he 219 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 4: was known as a difficult guy to deal with. 220 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: West Hollywood can look on the outside as if it's 221 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: some harmonious gighborhood, but there is a long history of 222 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: racism and sexism in West Hollywood. Just for example, it 223 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: was long a practice that black men would have to 224 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: show multiple forms of ID to get into bars, and 225 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: the city can be incredibly unwelcoming to lesbians. Also, the 226 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: city can be very much a not in my backyard 227 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: kind of place, which ed Buck fit right into. Henry 228 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: Scott says, there are a lot of divisions in West Hollwood. 229 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 8: Then the other division that I've found fascinating his division 230 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 8: between what I call the work gays and the old 231 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 8: gay boomers. There's plight a division there that we see, 232 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 8: particularly on the city council right now. 233 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: Ed Buck made friends and some enemies in his early career, 234 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: getting involved in democratic clubs and donating money. He gave 235 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: nearly half a million dollars doing it mainly at one 236 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: grand to five grand at a time. One of the 237 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 2: people who benefited was John Duran, a former city council 238 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: person and former wehome here. 239 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 9: When I first met at, he was very talkative, he 240 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 9: had intelligence, but the fact that he'd run for office 241 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 9: and almost took Governor Meetrom of Arizona out made him 242 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 9: interesting to me. But he was out as a gay man, 243 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 9: and if you move into West Hollywood either gay or 244 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 9: presumed to be possibly gay, and so I think by 245 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 9: the time ed got here, he intended this destination to 246 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 9: explore his sexual element. 247 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 10: I first met ed Buck when I got involved in 248 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 10: city politics. 249 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: Lindsay Horvav was a second woman mayor in West Hollywood's history. 250 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: She's currently on the LA County Board of Supervisors, and 251 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: she began volunteering in West Hollywood in two thousand and seven. 252 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 10: I volunteered on campaigns for city council he had run 253 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 10: at the time. I did not volunteer on his campaign, 254 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 10: to be very clear, but that's how I met him. 255 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 10: He was running and some of his friends were running 256 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 10: against people I was supporting. 257 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: So what would you say? What was your impressive him? 258 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 10: At the time, I wasn't politically aligned with ed Buck. 259 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 10: I didn't see I didn't share his worldview, and my 260 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 10: experience was that any bud who was on the other 261 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 10: side of him, he made an enemy. 262 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: It's not clear when ed Buck began using meth, but 263 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: there was an influx of drugs into West Hollywood at 264 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: the end of the nineties. Again, John Durant, former mayor 265 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: of West Hollywood. 266 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 9: He was very involved with the Democratic Party, the Democratic Clubs, 267 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 9: the Stonewall Democratic Club, but his role in West iod 268 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 9: government has been primarily as a agitator. 269 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 4: You know. 270 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 9: He'd come to council meetings on occasion and scream and 271 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 9: yell about development issues. 272 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 4: That's what I recall. 273 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 9: Now I'm wondering whether some of those appearances before council 274 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 9: were under the influence of myth because that sort of 275 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 9: anger and agitation, and the sweaty brow, the clenched fists, 276 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 9: the teeth being gritted. I mean, now I recognize all 277 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 9: of that to be the symptoms of somebody under the 278 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 9: influence of amphetamine. 279 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 8: Crystal meth has had an incredible impact, negative impact on 280 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 8: West Hollywood and other gay communities because West Hollywood is 281 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 8: so much of a quote gay community thirty percent of 282 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 8: the population that's gay. I have lost friends to meth, 283 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 8: and I have seen friends lose their careers. I had 284 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 8: someone I lived with for three years in New York 285 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 8: and was very close to who lost his job almost 286 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 8: committed suicide. 287 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 4: Amost everything he am. 288 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 8: And one of the challenges I found in West Hollywood 289 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 8: was the unwillingness for the gay community to acknowledge the 290 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 8: horrors of men. 291 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: It's not clear when Ed Buck began using meth, but 292 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 2: there was an influx of math into West Hollywood at 293 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: the end of the nineteen nineties. Over time, Buck began 294 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: to become involved in fetish play. His fetish focused on 295 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: black men dressed in white underwear. He enjoyed humiliating men, 296 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: and according to prosecutors, there were thousands of videos of 297 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: Buck smoking up with and eventually slamming or shooting men 298 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: up with meth. Neighbors began noticing the parade of black 299 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: men going into Buck's apartment. This is shattering the system, 300 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 2: well just the beginning. To do me a favor and 301 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: push yourself. 302 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: My name is Ludlow b. Query the Second. I am 303 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 3: a Los Angeles based lawyer. I was co counsel as 304 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: Edward Buck's defense. 305 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 2: Council, this is shattering the system. I'm snari Clinton at 306 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 2: this part of the story, we thought we needed to 307 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: understand what ed Buck was thinking besides his statements at trial. 308 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: What possible excuse would ed Buck have for his behavior now, 309 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: so that you all know at the start of the 310 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: process for doing this podcast, we reached out to ed 311 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 2: Buck and his family. They declined. We did speak to 312 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: one of his lawyers, Chris Darden and Ludlow B. Query. 313 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: The second were ed Buck's lawyers. You might remember Chris 314 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 2: Darden from the OJ case. Darden was one of the 315 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: prosecutors who tried OJ Simpson for the murder of his 316 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 2: ex wife, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman. 317 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: Simpson was acquitted. Darden, though has since become a very 318 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: well paid defense attorney. His co counsel Ludlow B. Query, 319 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: also a defense attorney. If less famous, he is very 320 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: much la He was bussed to Beverly Hills High. I 321 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 2: have to say that talking to Ludlow Query was possibly 322 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: one of the more memorable interviews that I've done in 323 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 2: my career, in part because of how he defends at Buck. Well, 324 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: you know, when I think of this case, like, you know, 325 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: the average person who might be listening this, like, Okay, 326 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 2: I understand black man is a criminal defense attorney, that's 327 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: the thing. But then I have to ask the question 328 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: that I feel like the average black of Angelino might say, 329 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: which would probably be something like, look, Chris Darden on 330 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 2: the wrong side yet again, is he on the wrong 331 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 2: side you and you and Christy Darden like in this case, Like. 332 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 3: It depends on obviously, if you look at this case 333 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: you were talking about the ed Buck case. Obvious, Yes, 334 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 3: if you look at it outside of the criminal justice 335 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 3: sphere or the criminal justice space, then I can understand 336 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: why people would say that. Yes, I mean ed Buck 337 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 3: is accused of court doing horrible things that resulted in 338 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 3: the deaths of two black men. He's accused of exploiting 339 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 3: black men in particular. Those are the allegations. And you know, 340 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 3: it appeared that Jackie Lacy, the district attorney at the time, 341 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: wasn't willing to file a case against them. And I 342 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 3: can understand how the public couls see that as, oh, well, 343 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 3: these are just black men and black lives don't matter, 344 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 3: and so you know, wealthy ed Buck is going to 345 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 3: not be prosecuted because the victims happen to be blackmail, 346 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 3: homeless black men, black men who have drug addiction problems, 347 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 3: black men who are in prostitution, so they're to. 348 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 11: Society, they're looked at is throwaway. 349 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 3: And to people who are advocating that black lives matter, 350 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 3: and particularly and in this particular insin black gay lives matter, 351 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:51,239 Speaker 3: I can understand how it would be perceived that me 352 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: and Chris are on the wrong side yet again. But 353 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: lawyers and the criminal justice system doesn't operate, it's not 354 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: supposed to operate under the influence of public opinion. You 355 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 3: cannot get justice if you prosecute or don't prosecute, or 356 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: convict or don't convict based on what the masses want. 357 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: But our justice system is based on testable evidence. You 358 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: know what I mean. 359 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 4: You can't bring in a mob. 360 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 12: A crowd and say to the jury, well, the mob 361 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 12: says they're guilty, so you better convict. 362 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: Now, this wasn't necessarily a mob action. Prosecutors would eventually 363 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: find thousands of videos of ed Buck in his victims, 364 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: both ed Buck injecting them and smoking meth with them. 365 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 2: In addition to that, there was the actual evidence that 366 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: was found inside of his apartment, as well as the 367 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: willingness amongst his victims to testify if they got immunity. 368 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: One of the big questions of the case seems to be, well, 369 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: you know, I live around the corner from at Buck's 370 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: apartment and I look at one, two, three four, Laurel, 371 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, is he really a wealthy man? 372 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 11: Well, you know, I mean, I'm not going to comment on. 373 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 3: On his assets, you know, but that was certainly what 374 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 3: the public, the public perception of him. 375 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: Was one of the things regardless of what you think 376 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: about this case, I think about, who's no one to 377 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: think of him as a boogeyman? 378 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 11: Okay, right, so right, this is not a boogeyman. He's 379 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 11: just not. 380 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 3: He was portrayed as a boogeyman by the prosecution and 381 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 3: by the press. 382 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 11: But he's not a boogeyman. 383 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: So humanize him for me helped me understand. 384 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 11: Ed book was. 385 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: In my opinion, ed Buck was a meth amphetamine addict 386 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 3: that is a diction and had gotten control of him 387 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: and as a human, as a person, you know, apart 388 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 3: from this horrible drug, he is a compassionate, you know, 389 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: civically active, caring man. I mean he howso because you know, 390 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 3: as intent always is to help people. Now it got 391 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 3: twisted by an addiction. Yeah, it got twisted by an addiction. 392 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 3: And you know, doing drugs with people is definitely not 393 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 3: helping him. 394 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 11: And another thing I mean this is does ed Buck 395 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 11: have a history of victimizing black men? 396 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 6: No? 397 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 3: I mean you go back and back in time in 398 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: his life, there's none of there's no history of him 399 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 3: abusing and victimizing black men. 400 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 4: You know. 401 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: So, how do you explain the thousands and hours of 402 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 2: hours of tape that I mean, like. 403 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 11: How do you make people that is all well, that's. 404 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 3: All within the context of this crazy world that he 405 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: was living in under the influence of this addiction. I 406 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 3: think that the thousands of hours of tape really didn't 407 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: speak to what the charges were in the sense that 408 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: the things that he was that were the picture of 409 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: him that was being painted with the thousands out of 410 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: hours of tape was that he was sexually assaulting people, 411 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 3: that he was torturing them. 412 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 11: Well, he wasn't charged with any of that. 413 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 3: He was charged with distribution, causing death and bringing somebody 414 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 3: from another state. 415 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 11: For the purposes of prostitution. That's what he was charged 416 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 11: with that as well. 417 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: But so. 418 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 3: To prove that he distributed meth amphetamine to these two 419 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: gentlemen who passed away, you didn't need thousands of hours 420 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: of what I called shit show evident that just made 421 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 3: him look horrible, made him look like a monster, but 422 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 3: it didn't. 423 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 11: It wasn't relevant to the actual charges. It made him 424 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 11: look like a sexual assaulter. 425 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: It made him look like a torturer, evil man, but 426 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 3: the charges did not reflect. 427 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 11: Any of that. 428 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: That was just poured on. 429 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 11: To make the jury hate him. 430 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 12: Think about what it says that this person, let's say, 431 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 12: in some crazy world that doesn't actually exist, there had 432 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 12: never been any ill will. Two terrible tragedies, two terrible accidents. 433 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 12: Many you find more people ever sick. That's sick. The 434 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 12: best case scenario is almost unimaginably sick. 435 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: In my opinion, it unduly prejudiced the jury against our client, 436 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: and so it wasn't even about what he was charged with. 437 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 3: It was just like a monster. Whatever he's charged with, 438 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 3: find him guilty. But we're going to find him guilty. 439 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 3: I'm really just doing my job, you know. I just 440 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 3: happen to be a black lawyer, you know, But I've 441 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 3: represented white supremacists. I have represented white supremacists. Now, does 442 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: that mean I believe in white supremacy. No, not by 443 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 3: any means do I believe. 444 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 11: In white supremacy. So that gets to. 445 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 3: The your clients, Aret, your friend's trope Again, I'm not 446 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 3: going to go to the clan rally just because I'm 447 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 3: representing somebody who might be a member of the Aryan 448 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 3: Brotherhood or. 449 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 11: The klu Klux Klan. 450 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna like join the clan or start espousing 451 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 3: their hate speech. 452 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: No. 453 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 3: But my job is to make sure that criminal defendants 454 00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 3: get due process. So I'm not here to judge him. 455 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 3: I'm here to make sure his rights are protected. Doesn't 456 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 3: mean I'm buddies with him, doesn't mean I agree with 457 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 3: anything he says, doesn't mean I agree with any of 458 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 3: his beliefs, doesn't even mean I like him. 459 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 11: Doesn't even mean I like him. You know what I mean. 460 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 11: I'm doing my job now. 461 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: I do care about it, Buck, because I got to 462 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 3: know it, Buck, and and and how I feel about 463 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 3: it Buck, and how I feel like he was sort 464 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 3: of portrayed as something that he Wasn't you know that's true? 465 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: You should you cared about uh Ed fuck, and I'm not. 466 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: I'm not asking this question in a flippant way. 467 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 11: Why Because I got to know. I got to know him. 468 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 3: You know, I have to be careful what I say 469 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: because I can't, you know, divulge our conversations, you know, 470 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: but I got to know him. 471 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: What's he like as a client? 472 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 11: He's you know, he's he's easy going. Really, you know, 473 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 11: he's not he's not a person. He's not. 474 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 3: He's respectful, he's highly intelligent, he's very practical, and he 475 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: wasn't he wasn't a problem on any level. 476 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 11: As a client. 477 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: Now, can I tell you that one of the most 478 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: surreal things is to hear the lawyer for Ed Buck 479 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: getting misty eyed about gay black men. I talked to 480 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 2: Query for two hours in downtown Hollywood. Aside from defending 481 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: that Buck, because that's your job. Yes, what do you 482 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: say to the young man who's moving to West Hollywood 483 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: and Jamelle Moore of today, the young person who's comes 484 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: to Hollywood. What advice do you give to that young 485 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: person who's arriving today? 486 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 11: The la is a jungle. 487 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: You gotta be careful. 488 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 3: I would just, you know, hope that you don't get 489 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: involved in anything that involves you, you know, doing drugs, 490 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: because that's just a bad it's a cliche path. 491 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 11: In Hollywood. 492 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 3: It's a it's an la cliche and it just leads 493 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: to nothing good. 494 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 11: And you matter. You matter. 495 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: The vigor with which you defend mister Bob. Do you 496 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 2: think that that's in the message to gay black men 497 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: that they matter? 498 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 3: I think that I in doing my job. And this 499 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 3: again is the This is where you compartmentalize as a lawyer. 500 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: This is what makes this is one of the hard 501 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 3: parts about being a lawyer, and what's so unique about 502 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 3: being a lawyer is you have to compartmentalize because. 503 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 11: All I had to focus on defending my client. I couldn't. 504 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 3: Focus on the message I was sending to young gay 505 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 3: black men. I couldn't focus on that and do the 506 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: job I was supposed to do. This was not about 507 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 3: callousness or uncaring for young black gay men. This was 508 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 3: about me doing my job for my client and nothing more. 509 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 11: As a black man, I love all of my brothers. 510 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: But you know what, we know that America did not 511 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 2: love these brothers, the gay black men. Even after Jamal 512 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: Moore was found dead in the apartment of a white 513 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: man with a troublesome pass ed, Buck continued to walk free. 514 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: He had the privilege and he had power, and he 515 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: used that to continue to stop his prey, and the 516 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 2: system did not protect them. Later in the series, we 517 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: look at what it finally took to get ed Buck arrested. 518 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 5: I initially reviewed all of the reports and immediately saw 519 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 5: that we had a disturbing pattern of what I later 520 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 5: learned to be party and play, which was Buck luring 521 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 5: his victims to his apartment to inject them with methamphetamine 522 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 5: and then on some occasions sexually assault his victims. 523 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: The team gathers to take down ed Buck. This is 524 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: Shattering the System. I'm Snari Glinton. Stick around for the 525 00:32:47,320 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: next episode. Shattering the System is a production of Macro 526 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 2: Studios and iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Snari Glenton. You 527 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: can follow me on Instagram at Snari plus the Number One. 528 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Charles D. King, Asha Corpus, Win 529 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 2: Royal Reccio, Jonathan Unger, Lindsay Hoffman, and Sonari Glinton. That's Me. 530 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: Our podcast is co written and produced by Ralph Cooper 531 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: the Third and ben Corey Jones. Erica Rodriguez is our 532 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: Associate producer. Dana Conway is our archival producer, Chris Mann 533 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: is the audio engineer, and Lisa Pollock is our consulting editor. 534 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: Sound design and music provided by Chris Mann with pod 535 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: Shaper Clips provide a courtesy of TV one LLC, All 536 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: Rights Reserve and the Damage Report Special thanks to Porsche 537 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: Robertson Maigas and Karen Griggsby Bates. We'll be back next 538 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: week when we find out that's shockingly another man showed 539 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 2: up in ed Buck's apartment dead and no one filed charges. Again, 540 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: that's on the next shattering the system. I'll see you 541 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: next time.