1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm at the casino until roughly four am in Louie. 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 2: Eyes of the morning. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 3: After all, I have gone to bed. 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I leave the casino. I get home within twenty minutes. 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: I had an apartment that was close by. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I go on to myself, think of things at Juice. 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 5: You a regular night, I. 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 2: Go to bed, Yeah, but I fall asleep. 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Period one. 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 5: I get woken up to a loud pounding on the door. 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: If there is anything, it's either you're getting robbed, someone 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: trying to knock down the. 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 5: Door, or the cops. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: So I grabbed my gun right away to defend the house. 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: I always have a lot of cash in my safe. 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: Ju Young. 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 5: Then I hear I just put my gun down. I 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 5: go open the door. 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: But when you looked at me, smile. 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: Hands up, that's when it all begin. 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: That's Ray. He surrendered to the FBI right then and there. 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: If you asked me when we were kids, where Ray 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: would end up, honestly, I would say right here, handcuffed 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: in his Gucci shorts and Gucci slides, flashing his newly 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: minted Veneers as the neighbors stood there gawking. He was 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: probably more worried about how pale and skinny he looked, 27 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: and less worried about the handcuffs on his wrists. For 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: as long as I could remember, Ray was always good 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,279 Speaker 2: at making a couple of pennies. The problem was didn't 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 2: matter how Rachel Panney was being arrested for fraud, conspiracy 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: to commit security fraud more specifically, and conspiracy to commit 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: wire fraud for what you might ask well. Ray's company 33 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: was called Centritech and he was one of the founders. 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: During the summer of twenty seventeen, center Tech became a 35 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: massive success, raising millions of dollars from investors. A list 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: celebrities like Floyd Mayweather and DJ Khaled touted the company 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: as the next big thing, and their success wasn't limited 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: to the US. Center Tech went global. Two kids from 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: New York were going to change the world until they didn't. 40 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: And I'm here to tell you why. 41 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 3: You know wonder will I ever be back with you? 42 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: Ray and his partners raised millions of dollars on false 43 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: promises and partnerships that they claimed would disrupt the financial industry, 44 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: and they made these claims across interviews, social media, and email. 45 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: When centri Tech launched, not only had they caught the 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: attention of hundreds of investors, but also the SEC and 47 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: FBI law enforcement had rarely come across a crime like 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: this before. Centri Tech was something new, novel, unregulated, the 49 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: opportunity to deceive was high and the stakes were massive. 50 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: By the time the FEDS caught up with Ray and 51 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 2: his partners, the initial funds that were raised had turned 52 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: into a lot of money. And when I say a 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: lot of money, according to the pending class action lawsuit, 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 2: we're talking billions of dollars. That's a billion with a 55 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: capital B. I'm Johnny be Good and this is creating 56 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: a con The Story of Bigcom Episode one, breaking. 57 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 4: Bed this SEC crack down on initial coin offerings. They 58 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 4: arrests of the co founders of an ico that was 59 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 4: backed and promoted by Floyd Mayweather. DJ coll Ed. 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: The founders of that company. 61 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 6: They've been indicted now for defrauding investors. In the course 62 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 6: of operating their company, Centric Tech. 63 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 7: They found rampant plagiarism, identity theft, fake executive teams. The 64 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 7: danger is there's manipulation, there's fraud, and people don't know 65 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 7: the difference. 66 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: Ray was mixed up in one of the largest financial 67 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: crimes of the decade, he found himself far away from 68 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: home and in a shit ton of trouble. His company, 69 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: centri Tech, found itself directly in the crosshairs of the FEDS. 70 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: And as the FBI and SEC turned their eyes on Ray, 71 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: well he was fucked. But Ray wasn't the only one 72 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: who'd lose everything. I threw my phone on the floor. 73 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: I was like, I invested how much money into this shit? 74 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: All of centri Tech's investors would see their valuable investment 75 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: in the company evaporate instantly. 76 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 8: When my assets went from three million dollars to zero overnight, 77 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 8: I went on to Centertech's website. 78 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: It just said shut down and you had no answers. 79 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: Ray and his partners were lying to stealing from and 80 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: cheating on witting investors, and they left a lot of 81 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: destruction in their wake. 82 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 8: It did lead to a lot of family trauma, and 83 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 8: ultimately I haven't spoken to my father in four years now. 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: All Right, you might be thinking, some shithead ripped off 85 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: a lot of people, Why the fuck should I care? 86 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: Sounds like something I've seen on Netflix. Guess what you 87 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: probably have. And that shithead you're talking about, well, he 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: happens to be my best friend, and before you start 89 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: judging me, you have to understand growing up, Ray was 90 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: basically a member of my family. Sometimes I'd come home 91 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: laid from a cello lesson or some shit, only to 92 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: find Ray there playing Nintendo in my room. As we 93 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: got a little older, I knew he was getting into 94 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: shady shit, but he was like my brother. I knew 95 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: the things he did for money weren't exactly legal, but 96 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 2: so what. We've all got that friend or relative. If 97 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: you don't, I promise you that you do. The thing 98 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: is people don't just turn to a life of crime overnight. 99 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: Ray was no different. It wasn't always a criminal, at 100 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: least not before the age of ten. It was an evolution. 101 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: Didn't matter if he was selling drugs or one of 102 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: the most prolific con artists of all time. To me, 103 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: Raychelkannie was always just that quirky kid from Atlantic Beach 104 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: who always had my back. Growing up in ab there 105 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: was a lot of money around us. It's a white 106 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: collar town with blue collar running through its veins. Ray 107 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: saw early on money was within his grasp. 108 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: I've been saying since a very young age that I 109 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: was going to be a million right. I believed I 110 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 1: could speak it into existence. 111 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 2: Ray never lacked confidence, that's for sure, But it was 112 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: more than that. Certain things are placed on a pedestal 113 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: in Atlantic Beach. If you walk into the town hall, 114 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: you'll see a sign poster of the Sopranos. I should 115 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: tell you everything you need to know about the town's values. 116 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: I always wanted to be a criminal when I was 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: a kid. I was fascinated with you Catch me if 118 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: you Ken, Wolf of Wall Street, these type of movies. 119 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: And guess what. That's exactly what Ray did. He became 120 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: a career criminal while friends were at grad school, working 121 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: on Wall Street or busting their ass trying to break 122 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: through as a writer. Like me, My best friend was 123 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: plodding and scheming toward his next big payday. But to 124 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: understand how Rachel Panney ended up surrendering to the FBI 125 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: and facing over a hundred years in prison, we need 126 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: to go back to where his story begins in Atlantic Beach, 127 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: New York. 128 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 5: Room. How you cramped back there? 129 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: You guys are Yeah, I know you're the one that 130 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: got the stupid car. 131 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: Good thing on in my old car, Yeah on my car, 132 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: probably more room. This is long Beach. Atlantic Beach is 133 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: just like the private sector of Long Beach. This is 134 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: a beautiful neighborhood. Like this is like where we used 135 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: to skateboard all the time. This is Putnam. I'm where 136 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: are you? 137 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 5: You live in rent? 138 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: No, Putnam is the street away from where I used 139 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: to live Plaza you're thinking of, I'm terrible with like geography, geography, geography, geograph. 140 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: He has a way with words, doesn't it. Long Beach 141 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: is really like what people know. It's what people come 142 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: to serve and party. And Landing Beach is just like 143 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: all the rich people that don't want to live in 144 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: the craziness of Long Beach. 145 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 5: They just live in a landing beach. 146 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: Atlantic Beach, or ab as we call it, carried a reputation, 147 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: and the kids that lived there did too. We weren't 148 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: so much degenerates, but we weren't not you know what 149 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: I mean. At the end of the day. We always 150 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: had each other's backs. The town it thrived off hedonism. 151 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: We went to high school in Lawrence. If you've ever 152 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: seen Goodfellas, you've probably heard of it. By sophomore year, 153 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: my parents were done with Atlantic Beach, so we relocated 154 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: to Florida. It was not my choice, My parents were 155 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: afraid of Ray's influence on me. They wanted to separate us, 156 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: and my dad knew relocating was the only way. Can 157 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: you imagine my parents decided to move our entire family 158 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 2: to another state because of bad influences. But here we are. 159 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: Ray was always a little different. His outlook on life, 160 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: it wasn't the same as mine. Everything he learned he 161 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: learned on the streets of Atlantic Beach and from his family, 162 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: especially his grandfather. 163 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: For as long as I can remember, I was always 164 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: trying to make a couple of pennies. A couple of 165 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 1: pennies is actually my grandfather saying, no matter what it was, 166 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: no matter how much, it's always a couple pennies. It 167 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: didn't matter how or why. I was always going to 168 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: find a way to make money. I saw other people 169 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: doing it, and I knew I could do it better. 170 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: Everything around me was illegal, but my brothers were all 171 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: selling weed. My grandfather is kind of like a mafia criminal. 172 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: He's like the one that's carrying the family financially, and 173 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: my mom's busting or asking. I'm like, one day I'll 174 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: be able to help my mom and pay all her bills. 175 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: I always saw a raised pop was in the mafia, 176 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: just never heard him say it before. Rai's desire for 177 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: wealth was born out of his surroundings. 178 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: This is my house growing up, was over here with 179 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: the trampoline and all this crazy shit. I don't know 180 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: what crack had moved in here, but it looks worse. 181 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 5: Than it did. 182 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: It looks exactly the same. 183 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: My mom bought that house on foreclosure to put us 184 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: in a good neighborhood. 185 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: Ray's dad was out of the picture by the time 186 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: Ray was born. 187 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: My mom worked all week in the hospital, like I 188 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: see you, just to like kind of sure. We were 189 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: able to pay the mortgage, living like above our means 190 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: in a nice town. 191 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 2: That nice town, the nice neighborhood raised mom carry Trapani 192 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: wanted for her son. Well, it came at a cost. 193 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 3: We were the poorest people on the block, let's put 194 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: it that way. 195 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 8: But they knew that they were loved, you know, and 196 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 8: they knew that they were safe, and that was the 197 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 8: most important thing to me. 198 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: My family's broke and my mom's busting her ass eighty 199 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: hours a week, killing herself, and then like all my 200 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: friends around me, they don't have to hustle. 201 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 5: Their mom's not killing theirselves. They're all stay at. 202 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: Home moms and you know, like their dad just like 203 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: a stockbroker or owns some big business. So like you're 204 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: always chasing basic life and then everybody around you is 205 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: like well off. It's very hard not to be like, oh, 206 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: I got to get to where they're at. 207 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 5: That made me very me against the world. 208 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people that grow up around 209 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: more wealthy people and are struggling as a kid tend 210 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: to do a legal activity. 211 00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 5: And they're also the. 212 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: More flat people, which I always was. It's like a 213 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,479 Speaker 1: poor man's quality is like that flashiness. 214 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: Ray was always flashy, and come to think of it, 215 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: so is His grandfather. William Hagner Bill or as Ray 216 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: called him, Pop, was the family patriarch, the protector. In 217 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: many ways, he would shape who Rachel Panney would become. 218 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: So back in the day, my grandfather. He's a bigger guy, 219 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: very tan, super german, fucking always a lot of gold 220 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: on like your prototypical not Italian mobster, but he looked 221 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: like a mobster. He was the head elevator inspector for 222 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: New York City and the correlation between that and organized crime. 223 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: The elevator unions are always the most shady unions because 224 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: they control all the flow in any construction job, because 225 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: you need an elevator to bring windows or anything to 226 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: the next floor. Right, So every job that went on 227 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: in New York City, you know, he obviously got a 228 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: piece of that. But he was just super connect the guy. 229 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: If there was one thing that Ray got from his grandfather, 230 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: it was loyalty. Pop always supported him. Ray was his blood. 231 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: My grandfather was always on my side no matter what. 232 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: He didn't know what the fuck I was doing. Oh, 233 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: Ray has a business idea, Let's give it a try. 234 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 2: Pop was the one male influence in his life that 235 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: would encourage him support him. Pop instilled loyalty in Ray. 236 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: He always had Ray's back and that stuck with him. Hell, 237 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: Ray even has a tattoo it's his loyalty running up 238 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: the side of his torso. But that's the thing about Ray. 239 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: If you're in his inner circle, he's loyal to you 240 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: to the day he dies. But if he doesn't know you, 241 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: he'll be the first to fuck you over and leave 242 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: you with nothing on the side of the road. Ray 243 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 2: was attracted to that power, that influence. He saw a 244 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 2: firsthand how his grandfather operated. He compared that to how 245 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: hard his mom worked double ships and overnights just to provide. 246 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: That wasn't for Ray. Growing up. When Ray wasn't with 247 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: his grandparents, he was out on the streets. It's where 248 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 2: we spent most of our days when we weren't at school. 249 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: That's where the AB boys come in. 250 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: That Atlantic Beach Crew had a huge influence on this town. 251 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: They were like the surfer you know, they run the streets. 252 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: They're doing all like the bad shit in town, all 253 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: like blue collar families, and they got like all the girls, 254 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: so we looked up to them in a way. They 255 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: were like the surf gangs from Point Break, just dowing 256 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: more drugs. Ray saw the AB Crew making more money 257 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: from drugs than lifeguarding, and he wanted a piece of that. 258 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: They say Atlantic Beach dies in the winter and comes 259 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: back to life every June. Summers in Atlantic Beach were special. 260 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: Even after moving to Florida, I'd go back for the 261 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: next five years. The beach was my first job, where 262 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: I met my first girlfriend, where I smoke my first blunt. 263 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: Most of us were content to just be teenagers and 264 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: enjoy making a few bucks on the beach. 265 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 5: But not Ray. 266 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: He saw a bigger opportunity than parking his ass on 267 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: a lifeguard stand. His life of crime, Well, it all 268 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: started with weed, and it started on the beach. 269 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: This bowl looks like shit, like Long Beach Bowlok is 270 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: brand new. This bowl looks so shitty. One of the 271 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: coolest memory like for me is this is actually where 272 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: I worked when I first sold wheat. 273 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: And Ray had the perfect cover to get started. 274 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: We were chairboys, so like it would be two chairboys 275 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: and a security guard. And then like when people would 276 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: comment they say that last name, you take their chairs, 277 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: you bring them down for you and they give you 278 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: a tip. 279 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: Look, as a kid from a b your summers were 280 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: spent as a chairboy or a lifeguard. These jobs weren't negotiable. 281 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: They were passed down from generation to generation. We doated 282 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: on the rich people of Atlantic Beach as they paid 283 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: us peanuts to carry their shit. They made leather out 284 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: of their skin as they parked their ass on the 285 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: beach all day. Ray realized his time had more value. 286 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: He also paid attention to who was coming to the beach. 287 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 2: It wasn't the people like my father busting his ass 288 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: working one hundred hour weeks. These people were comfortable. Some 289 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: made an honest living. Others, well, Atlantic beaches will want 290 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: to be mob town. You literally had the retired mafia 291 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: living right there and a lot of people getting rich 292 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: off backroom deals, making others do their dirty work while 293 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: they got fat. And Tan Ray took note. 294 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: It was just like a good station to set up 295 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: and bag up my wheat. As long as people are 296 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: getting in chairs, no one's complaining, no one's going to bother. 297 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: You made ten grand, like eighth grade going into ninth grade, 298 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: which is like a lot of money for someone that 299 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: has no money at all. 300 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: A fourteen year old walking down the hallways of Lawrence 301 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: High with ten k in cash. 302 00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 5: You know what am I going to do? Go make 303 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 5: seven dollars an hour and just sit at the beach. 304 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: Hey, I was that kid. I was happy to collect 305 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: my seven dollars an hour. Ray he needed more. Maybe 306 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 2: Johnny worked here more than me. I switched up and 307 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 2: started doing other shit. That other shit. Ray got into 308 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: girls and drugs. 309 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: I've definitely smoked blunts with girls here and like caught 310 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: head sitting here. And we were little kids just enjoying 311 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: the day smoking, And. 312 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 5: There were definitely times where I would go and pick. 313 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: Up with girls to do whatever with them. 314 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 9: Right was got along with women. 315 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: That's Mara. The three of us were inseparable in high school. 316 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: She knows Ray as well as I do. 317 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 9: Everyone would meet up on the beaches at night and 318 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 9: get fucked up. 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: A lot of these girls, like their first time doing 320 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: anything was with me. That's the most part. They're not 321 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: having sex. Some of these girls are just starting to kiss. 322 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: I kind of knew everything that was like sexually to do, 323 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: and it wasn't just sex. 324 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 9: Ray was always a little bit ridiculous also in the 325 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 9: sense of like he smoked pot before everyone that I 326 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 9: ever even met. It was like kind of always the 327 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 9: kid that was stoned. 328 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: We're introducing them to like everything. The first time everybody 329 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: does mushrooms is with us, or the first time anybody 330 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: tried to smoke weed is with us. We were like 331 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: the bad influences. I was probably the worst influence there 332 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: ever was. 333 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 2: We had plenty of excitement growing up, smoking weed, breaking 334 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: into cabanas, partying. It felt like there were no rules. 335 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: We even had some close encounters with the cops, but 336 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: we never took it seriously. 337 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was definitely fun. Running well. That was like 338 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 5: how it was with the cops. 339 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: Like it was just like Cat and Mouse came at 340 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: all time enjoyable cat and Mouse because the cops weren't 341 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: like out to get you. You almost felt like untouchable 342 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: in that sense. 343 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 2: The reality was most of those cops were our friends 344 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 2: and family. The line between criminal and cop was a 345 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: thin one. A lot of the guys that ended up 346 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: joining the Forest were some of the biggest scumbags at Lawrence, 347 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 2: so there wasn't really any respect for authority, And as 348 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: Ray got older, that untouchable mentality persisted. 349 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: When you start coming in real crimes, you're not really 350 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: like trying to have any sort of police interaction. 351 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 2: Atlantic Beach had a bad drug problem that was no secret, 352 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: and Ray was mixed up in it. We were all 353 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 2: worried about him. Here's Mara again. 354 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 9: The dynamic definitely changed at one point because Johnny moved 355 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 9: to Florida. And when Johnny moved it was kind of 356 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 9: like the band broke up a lit all and Ray 357 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 9: was doing his own thing. 358 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: It was a good time until he started beering off 359 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: the wrong way. That's Ray's childhood friend, Bert Feldman. 360 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 8: Seemed clear that Ray started moving away from me to 361 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 8: harder shit. 362 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 10: You know, anytime you get a bunch of kids together 363 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 10: and they get nothing to do, I think leads to 364 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 10: drug abuse. 365 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: That's Ray's father filled your panny. They aren't exactly close, 366 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 2: but Phil came back into the picture. 367 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 10: They would feel their parents' drugs and then they'll put 368 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 10: them in a big bowl and they would just share 369 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 10: the drugs like that prescription medication. 370 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: Bert Mara and I were in no position to really 371 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 2: help Ray. We were all dealing with our own substance 372 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: abuse issues. If I tried to get him clean, he'd 373 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: be the first to point out the hypocrisy, Like I. 374 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Was on a crazy amount of drugs. I was taking 375 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: twenties Annex a day, which is you know, like anyway 376 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: that ever did ones annex like fucked up? Like I 377 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: was taking twenties annex, smoking weheed all day, plusing heroin 378 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: with that. 379 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 9: I was definitely concerned when he started doing harder drugs. 380 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: Raise mom Carrie had her own concerns. 381 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 8: He stopped hanging out with kids in Atlantic Beach, like 382 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 8: with Johnny and stuff like that, and he started to 383 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 8: hang out over the bridge. 384 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 3: That's when he started to go, you know, because there 385 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 3: were bad people over there. 386 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: In some neighborhoods, you talk about the wrong side of 387 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 2: the tracks. In Atlantic Beach, it's the wrong side of 388 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: the bridge. Our parents tried to keep us on our side. 389 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: Here's my sister, Alyssa. She's three years older and was 390 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: a part of that ab crew. She knew all this 391 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: shit Ray was up to. 392 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 6: When you go over the bridge, it's really only for 393 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 6: one thing, and that's to sell drugs. 394 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: My other best friend lived over the bridge, got at 395 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: his house regularly smoking the pod and all that type shit, 396 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: and his brother was like the main weed dealer for 397 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: all of Nassau County, like. 398 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 5: A big part of New York. 399 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: His brother has millions of dollars in cash and hundreds 400 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: of pounds of weed. 401 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 6: Where Ray was in Inwood, which is a hood part. 402 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 5: Of Queen's. 403 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: I think I was in like eleventh grade. I got 404 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: my first apartment over the bridge. I've always had like 405 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: a million apartments, but like Atlantic Beach is my home base. 406 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: Lies he had one, but a sixteen year old having 407 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: an apartment still kind of crazy. 408 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: I'd kind of sell drugs out of and that's kind 409 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: of where I'd bag up coke and just kind of parties. 410 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: If I wanted to do like some ecstasy, you know, 411 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: we're all just going to go to that apartment. 412 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 2: At this point, not only was Ray an addict, he 413 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: became a full blown drug dealer, his main product oxy. 414 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: He was fifteen. 415 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 6: When you find out how much you pay for one 416 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 6: of these pills, that's when Ray's eyes lit up in 417 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 6: both ways. Hey I can sell these drugs and do 418 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 6: them for free and make a good profit. Ray was 419 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 6: always about the quick come up since an early age. 420 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: If someone was like, oh, what's your best way of 421 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: making money, I don't think start a business. I'm like, oh, 422 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: we should start some sort of scheme, and I can't 423 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: help it. 424 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 6: Ray is very much a shady person. He would pick 425 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 6: money over everything. 426 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: Dealing wasn't enough. Eventually, the future billion dollar con artist 427 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 2: decided to influence the supply. 428 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: My first fraud was I basically had someone steal a 429 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: pad from a doctor, and then I just had someone 430 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: else go to the doctor get like this script for 431 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: like tailan oil. I copied his exact handwriting. So I 432 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: just wrote out the whole pad of oxy conton thirties 433 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: to all different people in my town, made them all 434 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: go to the pharmacies, cash them in, get the pills, 435 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: and then I would give him thirty pills each most 436 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: of the scripture for one hundred and twenty to give 437 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: him thirty pills, which you know that makes them like 438 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: six hundred bucks. To just basically go into a pharmacy 439 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: per phil you'd give the person thirty pills, you'd get 440 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: ninety ninety times twenty. You'd make like eighteen hundred bucks 441 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: off each one. You'd multiply that by one hundred people. 442 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 2: It's a couple of pennies, one hundred and eighty grand 443 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: worth of pennies. 444 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: It was crazy how many they allowed us to fill. 445 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: One pharmacy alone allowed us to fill about one hundred 446 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: prescriptions from the same doctor without every questioning anything. 447 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: Ray practically had the entire town filling fake scripts. He 448 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: was hustling selling pills fast then he can swallow them, 449 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: making bank. But New York's opioid crisis was at a 450 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: critical mass. The authorities were finally cracking down. 451 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: My girlfriend goes into a pharmacy to fill another prescription 452 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: that's a fake prescription, and she's in there and she 453 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: just comes like running out and she says, you know, 454 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: they were onto the whole scam, and we left. They 455 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: didn't arrest her there. About a week later, detectives showed 456 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: up to my house. They said that I had to 457 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: warrn off my rest for prescription for it for her. 458 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: I think I had like two counts because I filled 459 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: two prescriptions. 460 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 5: Personally. 461 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: They ended up arresting everybody that filled the prescription, Like 462 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: the whole town basically got arrested. They never pinpointed me 463 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: as like a mastermind of the operation or anything like that. 464 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 2: Most people I know got off with basically nothing, including Ray. 465 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 2: You had to do a couple of weeks at drug court, 466 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 2: that's it, and without any real consequences. Ray was back 467 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 2: at it in no time, using more than ever. Here's maa. 468 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 9: He was heavy back on drugs and whatever. The only 469 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 9: time we would leave as if like he needed to 470 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 9: get drugs, which at first I didn't even realize, and 471 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 9: then afterwards I was like, Okay, you're really like fully 472 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 9: back in it. 473 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: I used to shoot two bundles of heroin or you know, 474 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: three bundles of heroin in a day, plus taking siboxin. 475 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 2: If you don't have a recovering opiate addict in your family, 476 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: you may not know what suboxine is. It's a drug 477 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: that doctors prescribed to treat opiate dependency. Ray used to 478 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: pop them like candy. 479 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, I've had people who die right in front 480 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: of me on heroin or I've like resuscitated the two 481 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: people actually in my life, I somehow saved their life, 482 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: like gave them mouth to mouth after they overdose on 483 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: heroin right in front of me. 484 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 9: His mom definitely was not like helpful in all of 485 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 9: that too. Like her and I've actually had like our 486 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 9: own kind of beef at one point. Everything was everyone 487 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 9: else's fault, never raised fault, and she was very vocal 488 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 9: about that. She had no problems reaching out to kids 489 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 9: and like making them feel like there was something wrong 490 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 9: with them. But you know, it's his own issues that 491 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 9: he was going through. But she did not help. 492 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 2: I don't think Rai's mom, Carrie. 493 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 3: I think he probably had multiple rock bottoms. 494 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 8: But like they say, you should, you know, let them 495 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 8: hit rock bottom. I don't agree with that philosophy. They say, 496 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 8: you know you got to cut them off, you got 497 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 8: I could never do that. I wouldn't be able to sleep, 498 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 8: I couldn't I couldn't live with myself. 499 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 3: You know, I couldn't have him in the street. 500 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 8: You know, that's why I always gave him a house, 501 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 8: a place to live, whatever, you know, food, even if 502 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 8: I knew he was using, because I just something that 503 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 8: I just could not do. 504 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 3: I wasn't going to give up on him. People, Oh 505 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: you're not giving up on him. You're teaching him a lesson. 506 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 8: A kid like Ray would have been dead. 507 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: Despite their disagreements, Maren knew when it was time to 508 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: get Carry involved. She was never one to mince words. 509 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 8: Mara calls me, She's like, he's going to be mad, 510 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 8: but I don't give a shit. 511 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 3: He's selling pills, he's selling weed, he's doing this, he's 512 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: back on the show. So I got my asses right 513 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 3: in the car. 514 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 8: I drove right up and just basically shocked him in 515 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 8: the middle of the night, banged. 516 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: On his bedroom door. You know, I'm here, But are 517 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: you doing an idiot? You know it's not happening. 518 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: I was never able to go against Ray like Marahad, 519 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: I didn't have the balls to call Carry. But the 520 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: truth was we all knew Ray needed rehab. 521 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 8: Yeah, you read a lot of stories about parents that 522 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 8: deal with kids that are having a bad addiction and 523 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 8: the kids are telling them off and cursing them. Never 524 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 8: did that. It's like he knew we had a problem. 525 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 8: He kind of wanted to continue to do his bad stuff. 526 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 8: But if I pulled them in and I said no, hey, we're. 527 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 3: Going, he would come with me. 528 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 7: You know. 529 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 8: He was in thirteen different impatient rehabs over the course 530 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 8: of the ten years, and then he would come right 531 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 8: out and use again. 532 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 6: It's very hard to help Ray. Ray is going to 533 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 6: do what he's going to do, through and through. 534 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: As soon as he completed rehab, Carrie needed to get 535 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: him out of Atlantic Beach as fast as possible, so 536 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: she called her dad for a solution. 537 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: My grandfather, who was like the connected mafia type of guy, 538 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: gets me into construction and I do that for a 539 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: few years, trying to like remain sober. 540 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 8: I wanted to get him out of the area, so 541 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 8: I got him an apartment in bay Own, New Jersey, 542 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 8: and then he was working in the city as a 543 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 8: construction worker. 544 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: My grandfather got me into the union. I was able 545 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: to skip their apprenticeship. Then I do construction for about 546 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: three years, and I hate construction. 547 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 5: It's not for me. 548 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: My whole skill set is all brained and I'm so 549 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: skinny and not strong. 550 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: He was a recovering drug addict. The kid was like 551 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: ninety pounds. 552 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 8: He's like, my, I'm not happy, and I knew he wasn't. 553 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 8: He hated construction. He's not his personality. He just hated 554 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 8: the guys. He hated the work. 555 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: I got disgusted with construction and I go down to 556 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: visit Bird in Florida. 557 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: Bert Raised, childhood friend we met before, was living down 558 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: in Florida at the time. 559 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 8: He calls me and that he's like, you know, Ma, 560 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 8: it's so nice down here. Burke can hook me up 561 00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 8: with the job. 562 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 3: You know, what do you think. 563 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 8: If I moved down and at this point he is 564 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 8: relatively sober. He's on some boxing, but he's clean off 565 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 8: of everything else. I'm like, you know, right, twenty four 566 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 8: if I had the opportunity to just pick up and 567 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 8: go and had no kids, I would do it, could 568 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 8: do it. 569 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck it, I quit, I pack up, I 570 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: put my TV, all my shit in my car. I 571 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: drive down to Florida and I ended up moving in 572 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: with Bert. 573 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 2: Raised. Choice to go to Florida was just the beginning. 574 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: This decision would fundamentally change the course of his life. 575 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: He needed a fresh start, and Bert offered that. Growing up, 576 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: my friend did a lot of shitty things. He was 577 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: no saying. By the time he left New York he 578 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 2: was a career criminal. Little did I realize he was 579 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 2: just warming up. And that's where our story really begins. 580 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: On this season of Creating a Con, I went from 581 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: working construction, hating my life, to making nine grand, ten grand, 582 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: twelve grand in a day, just living like a maniac. 583 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 2: You'll hear the hies. We had an amazing life. We 584 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: would all go to courtside, Miami, e games, dinners, wherever 585 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: we wanted, spending any amount we wanted. 586 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: That first feeling of seeing a million dollars in your 587 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: bank account. You see that extra comment. I was like, 588 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is crazy. 589 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 2: And the Loews my whole life. 590 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: It was always living up to my grandfather. I would 591 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: never be able to face them if I lost that money. 592 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: I realized this was not going to end well for them, 593 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: and they didn't seem to understand that. 594 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: A story that, by the end blurs the line between 595 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: fact and fiction. 596 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: Because once somebody tells a lie enough, they believe that lie. 597 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 2: So tune in each week to learn the truth behind 598 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 2: raich or Pany and Centri Tech. To get an inside 599 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: look into Centri Tech, raich or Pany, and all the 600 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: characters you've been listening to, check out Bitcoon exclusively on Netflix, 601 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: available to stream now. If you would like to reach 602 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: out to the Creating a Con team, email us at 603 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: Creating a Con at gmail dot com. That's Creating a 604 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: CEO n at gmail dot com. We appreciate your support. 605 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: One way to support our show is by subscribing to 606 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: our podcasts on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate 607 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: and review Creating a Con. Five star reviews go a 608 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: long way. A big thank you to those who are listening. Also, 609 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: be sure to check us out and follow us on 610 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: Instagram at Glass Podcasts. Creating a Con is a production 611 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in 612 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and produced 613 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: by me Johnny B. Good, with executive producers and Nancy Glass, 614 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 2: Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Ben 615 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: Fetterman and Todd Gans, additional writing by Matt Delvecchio. Operations 616 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: and production support by Christin Melchiori. Additional production support Trey Morgan. 617 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crimecheck. Sound 618 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: editing and mixing by Matt Delvechio, Consulting producer Nathaniel Popper. 619 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: Creating a CON's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library 620 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: provided by myb Music. Thank you for subscribing to iHeart 621 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: True Crime Plus exclusively on Apple. We hope you enjoyed 622 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 2: this ad free presentation of Creating a Con the story 623 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: of bitcom. Continue binging the rest of the series one 624 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: hundred percent ad free, and stay tuned for early access 625 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: to bonus episodes and additional content exclusively for subscribers. And 626 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: for more podcasts from iHeart and Glass Podcasts, visit the 627 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.