Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2: All Right guys, Part two, Welcome ladies and Mike to
Speaker 2: the podcast.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hey him, Mike, Hi, Hello Michael.
Speaker 1: The first time I looked into your eyes, oh god,
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I know you guys have had
Speaker 3: a few.
Speaker 4: Well, I feel like we're both similar in that sense,
Speaker 4: a little bit like where we both kind of want
Speaker 4: to avoid each other and don't look at each other's eyes.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like when we saw each other at
Speaker 1: the movie theater. Do you remember that? You don't remember that?
Speaker 1: It was awful.
Speaker 5: I saw It.
Speaker 1: Was like we were both there with the kids.
Speaker 4: I was like, hey Joie, Hey Jace, and then I
Speaker 4: like run away and then we go up to the
Speaker 4: register and the hands up the one right next to me.
Speaker 5: Ago.
Speaker 1: It was I think it's the first time I really
Speaker 1: saw you though, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think so, this is really my first time seeing Mike really. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm not on the soccer circuit. I'm not in the
Speaker 3: movie theater, and so we have not seen each other.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been we were saying an episode, first episode,
Speaker 2: how it's been two and a half years. I mean
Speaker 2: since we even did you know we've we were married.
Speaker 2: It's it's been a minute.
Speaker 4: That's crazy. It's crazy. It kind of feels like yesterday
Speaker 4: and also a lifetime ago. Honestly, No, there's yeah, we
Speaker 4: have two babies to show for it. So it had
Speaker 4: to be.
Speaker 1: All right, everybody raise your head.
Speaker 3: If you're wildly uncomfortable. Right, I have a question to
Speaker 3: open it up. Why does Mike dig wear his shoes
Speaker 3: in here? And we do? Oh, you're not new.
Speaker 1: For the comedy relie.
Speaker 3: We got to do something. Uh.
Speaker 2: So I think a big piece of divorce is divorce
Speaker 2: and friendships as well.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: Obviously, something that I was going to say and when
Speaker 2: I was talking with the girls early on the first
Speaker 2: podcast was in a way we've uh we have a
Speaker 2: great relationship now a new relationship. And I always wondered
Speaker 2: if it was hard for the girls because all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, like okay, Mike and Air good, but like
Speaker 2: we need to be good because for the kids. But
Speaker 2: you guys have had your whords. Yeah, we're like what
Speaker 2: about us and Mike?
Speaker 3: And so it's I'm like.
Speaker 1: Christal a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think it's hard because it's like
Speaker 2: they were your friends too, but you just you know,
Speaker 2: when people leave divorces, it's we people friends kind of
Speaker 2: separate a little bit, right, and that can be hard
Speaker 2: for all parties involved, exactly, especially when things can.
Speaker 3: Be uncomfortable, like at the moment. Want to.
Speaker 1: Know, I guess not.
Speaker 3: All right, Well this is a great thirty message. Okay,
Speaker 3: Well I have a question that maybe well it's going
Speaker 3: to go we'll go in fast. But it relates to that, okay,
Speaker 3: because the last tame, last time I think I actually
Speaker 3: saw you was in your old home, and it is
Speaker 3: absolutely incredible to me that I could avoid someone as
Speaker 3: big as you as much as I did, Like you
Speaker 3: did not exist to me, and that was hard for me,
Speaker 3: because you know me enough to know that's hard for me.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 3: I also I was telling kat this I in the
Speaker 3: compassion human part of me because I'm very much Janna
Speaker 3: first like you, and we've all talked about this on
Speaker 3: wine Down before that.
Speaker 2: I loved you as long as Janna loved you. Jane
Speaker 2: didn't love you.
Speaker 3: I was getting the garbage bags and extra set of
Speaker 3: hands because you're a big guy. Correct, Okay, read about
Speaker 3: that in the good fight we did. Yeah, so, but
Speaker 3: in the compassionate part of me, I also know a
Speaker 3: lot about you from us being on the road and
Speaker 3: being friends, and I know your history, and I know
Speaker 3: fourteen year old Mike and what has set the tone
Speaker 3: for fourteen year old Mike's life and the habits that
Speaker 3: fourteen year old Mike picked up that had stayed with
Speaker 3: him through marriage. And so the compassionate part of me
Speaker 3: wants to know, how did it feel when you watch
Speaker 3: it all dismantled the way it dismantled, because it was
Speaker 3: it feels to me quick once it was decided, it
Speaker 3: was like we're moving you out. You are like it
Speaker 3: just was. It just happened so fast that I also
Speaker 3: wondered was there a moment in your walk, because we
Speaker 3: hear about Jamna's walk, But was there a moment where
Speaker 3: you thought, I'm really just watching this all fall apart
Speaker 3: like my friends are, because there's a guy group at
Speaker 3: that point, there's a husband group, there's you know, I've
Speaker 3: been on Wine Down with you and Jana. We've been
Speaker 3: driving through Texas. We had a two tall mic series,
Speaker 3: like we've had these histories with each other, and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, all of the people that have like
Speaker 3: brought you into the fold. Are also like drawbridge is up.
Speaker 3: God saved the Queen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly how it felt good, right, No, none
Speaker 5: of that's a surprise to me. That's the thing. It's like,
Speaker 5: as much as we were all friends too, I knew that, yeah, right,
Speaker 5: But that's part of all, even going back to nine
Speaker 5: years ago when I first moved here for Jana, right, Like,
Speaker 5: it's just I left all of my people, my friends,
Speaker 5: and so I knew immediately everyone that I became friends
Speaker 5: with we're going to be attached to Janna. It's hard
Speaker 5: to go back because it does, like Catherine said, it
Speaker 5: feels like yesterday, but also ten years ago, two and
Speaker 5: a half years ago, and a lot has changed since then,
Speaker 5: so it's hard to really recall exactly what I was feeling.
Speaker 5: I just knew the difference at that point was as
Speaker 5: bad as it was and painful as it was for everyone,
Speaker 5: I was like, this, this just has to happen a
Speaker 5: little relieving, partly terrifying, isolating. I was felt completely alone,
Speaker 5: but it needed to happen. And one thing that's coming
Speaker 5: up for me now that I said to my therapist,
Speaker 5: then to my my, my men's groups, my whatever, I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't say this necessarily with pride. I say it
Speaker 5: to affirm how badly that needed to happen. I didn't
Speaker 5: shed a tear year after we separated and divorced, not
Speaker 5: because I didn't care. I truly believed. I was like,
Speaker 5: because this is unlike me. I'm still an emotional person.
Speaker 5: I've always been like an emotional person, but I physically
Speaker 5: couldn't cry. And what that was telling me was like,
Speaker 5: God is like literally hardening my heart right now. He's like,
Speaker 5: I got to get you, you guys out of this cycle,
Speaker 5: because that's helping nobody. It's not helping Jana, it's not
Speaker 5: helping you, not helping your kids, not helping your families,
Speaker 5: your friends, nobody. And that lasted for a long time
Speaker 5: where it just no matter how much I talked about
Speaker 5: it from a therapeutical standpoint, spiritual standpoint, I just never
Speaker 5: really purged that emotion because it was something bigger than myself.
Speaker 5: Not to get hokey on it, but spiritually it was
Speaker 5: something bigger than me. To be like this is ending now. Period.
Speaker 3: You don't think it's a detachment because you do have
Speaker 3: a history of detaching, right.
Speaker 5: And I know the difference. That's that's the thing where
Speaker 5: it's like, Okay, this is this is different. This isn't
Speaker 5: me detaching to save myself. This is out of my hands.
Speaker 5: At this point, I can kind of.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't relate to the not crying piece
Speaker 2: I was like or on crid bo days, but the
Speaker 2: moment that I worried about in the laundry, why didn't
Speaker 2: we didn't fight back?
Speaker 3: I didn't fight back.
Speaker 2: That was my that moment for you where I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's done because the fight was gone, and that was
Speaker 2: like that I can so I can relate to that
Speaker 2: moment too, or it's like a yeah.
Speaker 4: We did you Did you ever feel when y'all were
Speaker 4: going through this though that it was toxic and then
Speaker 4: it needed to end?
Speaker 1: Did you ever feel that way?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Of course, Yeah definitely. But at that point, part
Speaker 5: of me didn't know what was real and what was
Speaker 5: not sure right, because so much of our identity was
Speaker 5: that it's like Mike messes up poor Janna, same narrative,
Speaker 5: different time of year. Uh, we talk about it, we
Speaker 5: write about it, we do all these things, we do
Speaker 5: work on it, and it was just like this cyclical
Speaker 5: lifestyle that we were never getting out of.
Speaker 3: But the piece of that that was repetitive was you
Speaker 3: also me.
Speaker 2: I couldn't like, I don't want to just like give
Speaker 2: it all Mike. But it's hard turn to ask Mike no,
Speaker 2: But I think it was. It's not totally fair just
Speaker 2: to put that no no. But the pattern of the
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying, that was yes him, and then
Speaker 2: it would bring out But I told you the anxious attachment.
Speaker 2: I've said that to you. I'm kind of protection a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 3: That's fine. Mike's not really scared of me, let's be honest.
Speaker 2: But I'm just patterns, but also in the in his
Speaker 2: patterns without without his patterns and with his patterns here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just this is the cause and effect I'm talking.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get out of those no like I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm also asking questions that listeners would want
Speaker 3: to know. You guys were on this, This was your
Speaker 3: show for a long time, and you know, like people
Speaker 3: want to know that stuff, like because that is how
Speaker 3: it looked. It looked like you do this. This happens,
Speaker 3: there's apology, Jana cries, you know, but I saw and
Speaker 3: I said this to Jana before, and I've said it
Speaker 3: to you, like I always thought you guys would be
Speaker 3: the best of friends. I always saw you as best friends.
Speaker 3: I was like, if you guys could just get it
Speaker 3: together on the marriage side, I just knew it would
Speaker 3: be epic. Like I've always seen you as homies. So
Speaker 3: that I think was That's kind of the thing for
Speaker 3: me is I'm like, does it feel like I watched
Speaker 3: her anxious attachment? I watched it sometimes I suffocated for you.
Speaker 3: I knew why she was doing it, though, because what
Speaker 3: other choices she have, Like she has to check and
Speaker 3: double check and triple check and then sit down in
Speaker 3: a check in and a check check because if she doesn't,
Speaker 3: something's going to slip through the cracks, and something's going
Speaker 3: to make the bottom fall out, and something's going to
Speaker 3: take her trust away again.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't disagree with you, right, you know. That's
Speaker 5: the thing over the last two and a few years,
Speaker 5: I own my pard and everything and I always and
Speaker 5: I have on my part now. Yeah, and that's the
Speaker 5: whole thing where it got It's got so cyclical or
Speaker 5: even in my mind at the time, I would still
Speaker 5: try to put on Jamie. I was like, well, if
Speaker 5: you just gave me some space, this wouldn't happen. Is
Speaker 5: there some fact and truth behind that? Sure to a degree,
Speaker 5: But that's how bad that cycle got where we didn't
Speaker 5: even know where it beginning ended it anymore. It's like,
Speaker 5: did it really begin with me doing something again? Or
Speaker 5: did what? The same pattern was there, but it was
Speaker 5: so lost that at that point it didn't even matter.
Speaker 2: What would you say to couples then going through that piece,
Speaker 2: because I think that's the hard part because I get
Speaker 2: a lot of people that say, do you believe in
Speaker 2: your book? And I still to this day will say yes,
Speaker 2: I do, absolutely, But there's a piece of me that
Speaker 2: also goes when that trust is broken. Maybe one you
Speaker 2: can get over it, but the amount of times I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's actually I don't know, and I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's just a personal like a It
Speaker 2: takes a very strong person to let go of that
Speaker 2: resentment and actually trust them. Because I would say I
Speaker 2: trusted you, I never trusted you.
Speaker 3: You say that you didn't. It was the same thing.
Speaker 3: So it was like.
Speaker 2: You did not not resentle because it's like we were
Speaker 2: saying things we didn't really believe it we wanted to
Speaker 2: believe it. But I'm like, I still struggle with that answer.
Speaker 2: When people go, well, if they've done it again, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what even to say because I know
Speaker 2: what it did to me not trusting and you know
Speaker 2: what resentment and feeling suffocated to you. So it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't I think people could get over in fidelity
Speaker 2: if it happens maybe once, but I don't know if
Speaker 2: I could if twice, how people can form a new
Speaker 2: because I can't let that stuff go.
Speaker 3: I realized that in me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think. I'm just curious that's your case
Speaker 5: case basis, it takes special people to get over it
Speaker 5: even once. Now, what I will say, and I'm with you,
Speaker 5: I've defended the book where I'm like, I still believe
Speaker 5: in the things that we talked about in there. We
Speaker 5: were just in a place that was too far gone.
Speaker 5: But I will say this now having been through all
Speaker 5: of that, and you can probably attest to this if
Speaker 5: something were to happen in another relationship done and because
Speaker 5: we spend a lifetime dealing with that, and so I
Speaker 5: don't know. For the people that ask, I don't know
Speaker 5: that that's my answer I don't know because I don't
Speaker 5: know your relationship.
Speaker 3: I think it also depends on the willingness for people
Speaker 3: to want to dig deep and make a change, and
Speaker 3: also the actual just like chemistry and workability of two people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was because the ones cheer, I'm like, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've cheated in my past. I wouldn't cheat in this relationship.
Speaker 3: Just because he cheated in the past doesn't mean he'll
Speaker 3: cheat in his her next relationship. So it's like the
Speaker 3: ones cheater, I was cheated, not really, but maybe in
Speaker 3: the mirror. It's like it's just sore. It's like you
Speaker 3: just don't know the ins and outs of the relationship.
Speaker 3: So it's like I just I always say for me personally,
Speaker 3: once trust is broken, I have to physically walk away
Speaker 3: or I will become controlling, manipulated, you know, suffocating, intolerable.
Speaker 1: I will agree.
Speaker 5: I'll say this because I've obviously been asked this question
Speaker 5: a lot, and whether it's I'm dating or whatever, or
Speaker 5: people ask me it's like, oh, will you do you
Speaker 5: think you'll cheat again? And my my whole concept of
Speaker 5: that has flipped, where before I would answer is like no,
Speaker 5: because I wouldn't want to hurt you, right, Like I
Speaker 5: wouldn't want to hurt the other person At this point,
Speaker 5: I'm like, it has nothing to do with not wanting
Speaker 5: to hurt the other person, has everything to do selfishly
Speaker 5: with I refuse to be in a relationship where I
Speaker 5: feel like I'm in a down position. Ever again, ever again,
Speaker 5: Like that's the thing. If there's nothing else, if I
Speaker 5: am actually just a terrible person and a piece of crap,
Speaker 5: if there's anything else stopping me, it's that I refuse
Speaker 5: to be live in a down position?
Speaker 3: Did you want me? I always wondered.
Speaker 2: I'm like, did you want me to do something so
Speaker 2: that you could have a reason to be out, so
Speaker 2: that you wouldn't be the down?
Speaker 5: Not so I wouldn't not so I would have an out,
Speaker 5: but sure so the playing field.
Speaker 3: Was Yeah, really glarn a lot of airreor.
Speaker 4: I think that's something we all kind of felt like
Speaker 4: that was probably the case.
Speaker 2: Catherine, I think you've got some where y'all's relationship. Not
Speaker 2: to take away from none of our guyses, but I
Speaker 2: think there's some stuff that maybe you'd like to clear
Speaker 2: to not have the.
Speaker 3: I wish people could be in this room.
Speaker 1: I know writing cut the tension with an eye.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, hearing you say the cycle, I'm
Speaker 4: really nervous, Like this is hard for me. I want
Speaker 4: you to know that, and I'll probably cry, so just
Speaker 4: bear with.
Speaker 2: Me, but say why, because I think it was beautiful
Speaker 2: what you said last night on the plane.
Speaker 4: Hearing you say the cycle, first of all, I want
Speaker 4: you to know more than anything that that's what I
Speaker 4: always saw. It wasn't just Mike the cheater, and I
Speaker 4: know it probably felt that way to you, but I
Speaker 4: need you to know that I saw the cycle. I
Speaker 4: saw what happened. I saw how she reacted, I saw
Speaker 4: how she did the things that she did. I truly
Speaker 4: could see all of it. But I had to be
Speaker 4: on her side. She's my best friend, she's you know.
Speaker 4: And I still struggle with that now because I feel
Speaker 4: like obviously we lost a friendship, but like I loved
Speaker 4: you through it too, you know, And it was really hard.
Speaker 4: It was a really hard place to be in. And
Speaker 4: I don't I don't take back anything that I said.
Speaker 4: I don't take back anything because I truly, deep down
Speaker 4: knew y'all could not make it work. I wanted to
Speaker 4: believe her when she wanted to stay, and she wanted
Speaker 4: to try to, and every time she did, I made
Speaker 4: the decision to still love you and still try with y'all. Essentially,
Speaker 4: I know it wasn't I wasn't in the marriage, but
Speaker 4: at times I felt like I was, and maybe I
Speaker 4: shouldn't have been, but I was put in that position
Speaker 4: at times. And there's really not much I even want
Speaker 4: to ask you. There's not much. I just want you
Speaker 4: to know that more than any thing, because it hurt
Speaker 4: me too, you know, I mean, we felt I think
Speaker 4: as friends, we all felt lied to, we all felt
Speaker 4: like we had a friendship that was ripped apart. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and it's just it's been. It's been actually really hard
Speaker 4: on me. And I don't even remember what I said
Speaker 4: in the first one, but it's you know, it's it's
Speaker 4: not easy being on this side either.
Speaker 1: But I also want you to know I hear you.
Speaker 4: Even though you haven't said this, I'm sure you feel
Speaker 4: like it was very one sided and I just hated
Speaker 4: you and I you know, I like to think that
Speaker 4: I still treated you well during that time. I don't remember.
Speaker 4: Maybe I had some resentment too. I'm not even.
Speaker 5: Sure I appreciate that. The thing is like I've remember
Speaker 5: had necessarily anything against either one of you guys or
Speaker 5: anyone else, because it wasn't a surprise to me, because
Speaker 5: like we talked about the beginning of this episode, like I,
Speaker 5: you guys are going to default to Jana. I get that, but.
Speaker 3: I defaulted to you so many times on behalf of
Speaker 3: yourself behind the scenes too. It wasn't like she can
Speaker 3: attest to that. I was always like, I.
Speaker 5: That doesn't surprise me, and I believe that when you
Speaker 5: say it. That's the thing, it's my thing, is like,
Speaker 5: all right, after all this stuff happens, what am I
Speaker 5: going to say?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 5: How many times have you guys, over the last almost
Speaker 5: ten years that we've known each other, how many times
Speaker 5: have you heard me say I'm sorry? Right? And how
Speaker 5: many times did something happen again? Right? And you guys
Speaker 5: were hurt again and Channa was hurt again.
Speaker 3: Well, and I'm not even carrying it like I'm like,
Speaker 3: you hurt me personally. I think I just I think
Speaker 3: I just saw more in you than you even saw
Speaker 3: on yourself. I got sad because you guys have two
Speaker 3: beautiful kids.
Speaker 1: I think it's all of it, that's just the one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean also friendship, like you know me, Mike,
Speaker 3: like I don't like to be a dick to anybody, Like,
Speaker 3: don't make me be a dick to you? Is where
Speaker 3: I was getting to, you know. But then it also
Speaker 3: is just like I was so mad at you because
Speaker 3: I just kept being like, fucking get it together.
Speaker 1: We have a.
Speaker 3: Family here, like you have a family. And I get
Speaker 3: it now, And I even got it then. I think
Speaker 3: I understood it so much, and that's maybe why I
Speaker 3: was so mad, as I was just like, I know,
Speaker 3: this isn't just a Jana thing. I know this isn't
Speaker 3: just a Mic thing. But I was like, can somebody
Speaker 3: just get out of the cycle so we can just
Speaker 3: and listen? I see it now. The thirty thousand feet
Speaker 3: perspective is stunning. I mean, I love Alan, I love
Speaker 3: who Jenna is. Janna's a different human. This is a
Speaker 3: completely different Janna than you were married to. This is
Speaker 3: a different Jana than people knew in the Good Fight.
Speaker 3: I mean, the amount of absolute trench work this chick
Speaker 3: is done, and she's not even saying I'm done, I'm healed.
Speaker 3: It's just different and it's calmer, and it's more certain,
Speaker 3: and it's honest, and I get why it all had
Speaker 3: to fall apart. I just want you to know that
Speaker 3: I was never going like I mean, it was finally
Speaker 3: where I just look at channel I was like, it's
Speaker 3: just time because I was watching it all be the same,
Speaker 3: and I hated it, and I hated it for you
Speaker 3: because I actually do think you can be a really
Speaker 3: good dude. I think that's where my frustration came in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I know that I am and.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm Juris out, but for me was gien.
Speaker 5: And I agree with you with the things you're about China.
Speaker 5: Going back to what you originally said, it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: we you know, we had kids and we had a
Speaker 5: family with our group, even you saying that when I
Speaker 5: look at it from the outside, yes, But then when
Speaker 5: I put myself back into where I was then not
Speaker 5: nothing against you guys or anybody, I still felt alone.
Speaker 3: Sure I can see that actually right.
Speaker 5: Like I felt like and again and you guys, it's
Speaker 5: not that anyone whether it's your husband's or you guys
Speaker 5: directly or anybody else that was in our life and
Speaker 5: no one did anything directly for me to feel this way.
Speaker 5: It was my own doing over time, but we all
Speaker 5: want those fox whole friends, right, like we all have
Speaker 5: those people in our life. Here at that time when
Speaker 5: things are just towards that end, I felt, I was like,
Speaker 5: I don't have anyone in my foxhole in terms of
Speaker 5: like our closer group, right.
Speaker 3: Were you in your own foxhol.
Speaker 5: Yeah? Well that was the thing I thought. I was like,
Speaker 5: this is all I got. I don't have them alone
Speaker 5: because just because of whatever reasons, again mostly stemming from
Speaker 5: my own decision making over the years and all of that.
Speaker 5: But that's part of where, just like that cycle needed
Speaker 5: to end because this is as much as yes, the
Speaker 5: only shame that I have that still comes up is
Speaker 5: stuff with the kids, Right, would I change anything? Still? No,
Speaker 5: because I see where Jan is at and I was
Speaker 5: just on the previous episode, I was talking to Mark
Speaker 5: and how much I love Alan.
Speaker 3: I mean, who doesn't love Alan?
Speaker 5: I told her. I said the same joke to to
Speaker 5: Mark this episode, I was like, Jana, how does that
Speaker 5: make you feel You're not the prettiest in the relationship anymore?
Speaker 5: I mean, this guy, we're at soccer practice. It's like
Speaker 5: a nice autumn day, like pea.
Speaker 1: Coat on straight out of the UK.
Speaker 5: His hair was flowing.
Speaker 1: Of course he always I swear.
Speaker 5: He turned to the right and I was kind of
Speaker 5: back behind them, like catching up to me. He turned
Speaker 5: the right and it's like the wind hit it just right.
Speaker 5: I was like, is he slow motion right now?
Speaker 3: In slow motion? Also, if you made an Alan like
Speaker 3: action figure, it would be Peacoat not sold separately. That's
Speaker 3: like how he is in my brain, dapper Allan, Where
Speaker 3: is he pop out right now?
Speaker 1: Because so funny.
Speaker 5: So I you know, I might like him more than Jana, but.
Speaker 1: That's though that makes me happy.
Speaker 5: But that's a testament to the person that Jean has found,
Speaker 5: the person that she found that she deserves right.
Speaker 2: And I will say that the one thing of anything.
Speaker 2: And you know, Kat was asking about, like, you know, apologies,
Speaker 2: and like did you think I get apology wanted? And
Speaker 2: I said, there's one thing that he said to me
Speaker 2: at the very out of all the years, that was
Speaker 2: everything I ever needed to hear. It wasn't the full
Speaker 2: apology that I thought I deserved, or this or that
Speaker 2: or the other you said to me when I got
Speaker 2: engaged and you knew, you knew at that time I
Speaker 2: was pregnant, but you said, after everything that I put
Speaker 2: you through and you've been through, you deserve this and
Speaker 2: I'm really happy for you. And it was like that's
Speaker 2: everything I needed to hear, and I believed you and
Speaker 2: that is the.
Speaker 3: That was. It was beautiful.
Speaker 2: So I just I really appreciate that comment because that
Speaker 2: has that was the one thing that was like.
Speaker 5: Okay, well you're welcome and I meant it. And on
Speaker 5: a lighter note, can we tell the pregnancy story?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, did.
Speaker 1: Jana tell you guys?
Speaker 3: So yeah, don't you tell you guys?
Speaker 1: I don't know out Oh yeah no.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, okay, so for those of you listening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can tell the story. It's so really funny.
Speaker 5: So we're sitting at soccer practice. Was this in the spring? Yeah?
Speaker 3: The day does matter because the protesting.
Speaker 5: On your spring spring and we're at.
Speaker 3: March it was like March twenty fourth to twenty six whatever.
Speaker 5: It was dating Joys soccer practice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was so So it was in April when
Speaker 2: I when you found out.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, no, that wasn't even that was.
Speaker 3: Bringing on the phone.
Speaker 5: Was on the phone, that's right.
Speaker 3: You didn't say anything.
Speaker 5: I didn't say anything. Yeah, So Jane was said she's like, hey,
Speaker 5: can you get the kids or something or whatever. It's
Speaker 5: like I just haven't been feeling well. I'm like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 5: and then like a week goes by and then I
Speaker 5: hear on the phone obviously I know Jane. I'm like,
Speaker 5: you still don't feel like She's like no, I'm like
Speaker 5: it's been a week, like what and then she makes
Speaker 5: this audible sound over the phone that I've heard her
Speaker 5: make two other.
Speaker 1: In you would figure it out first.
Speaker 5: And so she makes the sound like this little dry heave,
Speaker 5: throw up.
Speaker 3: Sound, and I was just like, you don't say anything.
Speaker 5: No, I said what I said. I was like, what
Speaker 5: was that? She's like, I was like, what was that noise?
Speaker 3: And immediately when he asked me, I was like I
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 5: I was like Janna, I was like, are you I
Speaker 5: don't know what's talking about.
Speaker 3: No. No.
Speaker 5: And then it's like a couple of days later, we
Speaker 5: had the soccer practice and we were.
Speaker 2: At Jason's surgery was a surgery, and I looked up
Speaker 2: and he's just like, you're still not feeling good. He's
Speaker 2: like Jana, and I was like m m mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, long story short. He totally I
Speaker 1: called her to keep that from him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, are you pregnant? And I was just
Speaker 2: like mm hmmm. And then You're just like, I'm.
Speaker 5: Really happy for I was uncle Mike here, I.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's not with the old before the words. I
Speaker 4: was trying to think of funny stories. But then, of course,
Speaker 4: as I'm like going through these questions, I'm like, remember
Speaker 4: when he cornered me in the bathroom, and do you remember?
Speaker 1: It's not a funny story, That's what Jenny was.
Speaker 4: Like, no, And I was like, you don't remember that.
Speaker 4: It was like dancing with the stars. After she first
Speaker 4: found out you'd been away from a while. You come
Speaker 4: back and she doesn't tell me, mind you that you're
Speaker 4: coming back, and I'm there, and.
Speaker 1: So I'm like awesome.
Speaker 4: You know. So I'm like in the bathroom, do my makeup,
Speaker 4: and you walk in the bathroom.
Speaker 1: There's nowhere for me to go. I am cornered into makeup,
Speaker 1: just letting you.
Speaker 4: Talk, and I'm just like, but I mean that was
Speaker 4: a I mean a huge memory for me.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was big of you.
Speaker 4: Honestly, you know, you came in and you apologize to me,
Speaker 4: and you you know, whatever.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so.
Speaker 4: I was trying to think of stories and I just
Speaker 4: kept coming up with these and she's like, these aren't
Speaker 4: funny stories, like you know it was, And then I
Speaker 4: was like I did appreciate it though when he with
Speaker 4: a hand.
Speaker 3: On the table the stories. But in my mind it
Speaker 3: was funny.
Speaker 2: Remember when we ruined the Gamelberg Gatlinburg. Is someone farted,
Speaker 2: You're like.
Speaker 1: I didn't fart.
Speaker 3: We were just thrill us in there, like I'm not
Speaker 3: a grown up, like saying I'm a grown up. I
Speaker 3: didn't far.
Speaker 1: Other funny now though, so that's the good news.
Speaker 3: I remember when we did wind Down Texas, and that
Speaker 3: was I felt like, I felt like we were really funny.
Speaker 3: We were thank you. And I remember you were too
Speaker 3: tall for everything we tried to put you in, and
Speaker 3: so then it became a series too tall Mike, and
Speaker 3: so Carl, Carl, Carl and I were taking pictures of
Speaker 3: you when you didn't know in tiny.
Speaker 1: Space stop it.
Speaker 3: He would drive the jeep that we were renting. We
Speaker 3: had to go like four hours and they love murder
Speaker 3: mystery shows or whatever, and I was like, I'm in
Speaker 3: my own personal health and so mom and Dad were
Speaker 3: in the front and they're driving and he like Mike.
Speaker 3: I was like, there's no way he doesn't have like
Speaker 3: an actual kink because he was like so hunged over,
Speaker 3: so too tall. Mike was a good memory.
Speaker 2: Is there anything as we wrap up this episode that
Speaker 2: you guys want to say to move on?
Speaker 3: Let the past be the past.
Speaker 2: Obviously it's long gone, but you know, to move on
Speaker 2: and start a new chapter in this friendship.
Speaker 3: Mine is quick, So Kat, would you like to go first?
Speaker 3: I feel like I want you to feel like good relief.
Speaker 4: I want us to be in a room and be
Speaker 4: able to get along. First of all, I want to apologize.
Speaker 4: This will be hard, but I want to say that
Speaker 4: I am sorry because even though I didn't really have
Speaker 4: a choice, the last thing I said to you will
Speaker 4: always stick with me. It in the divorce situation, which
Speaker 4: I'm sure you know remember that was very very hard
Speaker 4: for me and.
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 4: I was doing what I knew she needed me to do,
Speaker 4: and I you know, I just I said to you,
Speaker 4: you just trust me, and then you walked out the door,
Speaker 4: and I was just like I.
Speaker 1: Could I could barely live with it.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just gonna be honest because I felt
Speaker 4: like I had I knew I was doing what I
Speaker 4: needed to for her, but for myself and for you,
Speaker 4: I just it was hard. It was and I want
Speaker 4: to apologize for that. I don't know how I should
Speaker 4: have done it differently. I don't know how I would
Speaker 4: have done it differently, but I do feel like I
Speaker 4: own owe you an apology.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that, and I appreciate that you feel like
Speaker 5: you even owe me an apology. And for those of
Speaker 5: you listening, I mean, it wasn't It was just Catherine
Speaker 5: saying that I don't need to go see GM. So
Speaker 5: you were doing what any.
Speaker 2: Well, you walked outside, and you walk outside. It's in
Speaker 2: the book, it's a chapter outside.
Speaker 5: Done the driveway. I see this guy get out of
Speaker 5: his car, just waddling over to the driveway and I'm
Speaker 5: just like, okay, and he's like, are you might costan?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: You go?
Speaker 1: Could you see me in the window? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: did you see us?
Speaker 3: Video?
Speaker 4: I literally cam and I just watched you from the
Speaker 4: video and it was and she's, you know, screaming in
Speaker 4: the bedroom, and I just like after that, I just
Speaker 4: like sat there for a minute and I was like,
Speaker 4: I mean honestly, like I needed to do.
Speaker 1: De talks for a while after all of this.
Speaker 4: It was a lot for y'all especially, but it was
Speaker 4: also a lot on us too, you know. And that's
Speaker 4: but yes, I felt like I owe you an apology
Speaker 4: for that, because that just never really set well with me.
Speaker 4: I think what I was trying to say to you,
Speaker 4: I just didn't have more words, was I'm actually looking
Speaker 4: out for you too, And it's how I felt in
Speaker 4: that moment, It's what I wanted to say. That's why
Speaker 4: I just kind of looked in your eyes and I
Speaker 4: was like, just trust me, like I knew you'd get
Speaker 4: here eventually.
Speaker 1: I just could so see that. I just knew that
Speaker 1: it had to happen. It did, you know.
Speaker 4: So, But that's that's all I wanted to be able
Speaker 4: to be in a room and be good. That's that's
Speaker 4: you know. I hope that we can be good. I
Speaker 4: hope that you don't have resentment towards me, and.
Speaker 5: No, I I honestly don't. And that's where, you know,
Speaker 5: I never I didn't have a reason the way I
Speaker 5: saw it for the last couple of years, and obviously
Speaker 5: like the fact that we're having this conversation, the whole
Speaker 5: reason why it's good that we've waited so long. Sure, right,
Speaker 5: But at the same time, I was like, I don't
Speaker 5: have any reason to talk to y'all like over the
Speaker 5: last two and a half years, Like I haven't for
Speaker 5: what again, for what reason? Like what what would have done?
Speaker 5: Who would benefit in that moment until the moment came
Speaker 5: like this more organically podcasts or.
Speaker 3: Not organically being video from.
Speaker 5: Microphones and cameras, but for it to come up in
Speaker 5: the way that it did, because other than that, like what,
Speaker 5: I don't know what I would have said to either
Speaker 5: one of you guys.
Speaker 3: I also think it's like God's protection over it too,
Speaker 3: because I think what I would have said to you
Speaker 3: a year ago, even or even right after it happened
Speaker 3: would have been like very sex in the city, like no,
Speaker 3: you know, And I think.
Speaker 1: We needed Jane to get to this place.
Speaker 4: That's where it hit me, Like, yes, I've had some
Speaker 4: you know, things about it, and i've you know, felt
Speaker 4: a way, But when I saw that y'all were good,
Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, it's time it's time for us
Speaker 4: to all be okay, you know, like let's all like
Speaker 4: we're adults. What happened happened. We all know everyone had
Speaker 4: a part in it. I will never fully blame you ever,
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying I blame you either. It is
Speaker 4: it's a it's a relationship that wasn't working, you know.
Speaker 4: So I'm just thankful. Honestly, I'm really really grateful that
Speaker 4: we could sit down and talk it talk it out.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: That's really it for me too, because I honestly, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't do well at not liking people. It takes
Speaker 3: a lot for me to not like somebody. And I
Speaker 3: never disliked you. I was disappointed, and I think I
Speaker 3: felt like I just thought you could always do better.
Speaker 3: I just kind of always knew you guys weren't going
Speaker 3: to do better. You weren't going to be able to
Speaker 3: do better inside of this. No, And I just don't
Speaker 3: want to have to feel like I have to avoid
Speaker 3: you because you're massive, and I just don't dislike you.
Speaker 1: We're all on the same page. We all like each other.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for coming on. Stay tuned for another short
Speaker 2: little wrap up.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned. We should have brought one h