WEBVTT - The Reunion Part 2 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.399 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.680 All Right guys, Part two, Welcome ladies and Mike to 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:13.040 the podcast. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.360 Hello, Hey him, Mike, Hi, Hello Michael. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.959 The first time I looked into your eyes, oh god, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.480 I can't. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.400 I was like, oh, I know you guys have had 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:24.720 a few. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.800 Well, I feel like we're both similar in that sense, 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:29.560 a little bit like where we both kind of want 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.960 to avoid each other and don't look at each other's eyes. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.640 It's like, it's like when we saw each other at 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.800 the movie theater. Do you remember that? You don't remember that? 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:39.479 It was awful. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:41.800 I saw It. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.160 Was like we were both there with the kids. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.519 I was like, hey Joie, Hey Jace, and then I 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:47.320 like run away and then we go up to the 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.199 register and the hands up the one right next to me. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:51.760 Ago. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:53.519 It was I think it's the first time I really 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:54.520 saw you though, Yeah, I. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.520 Think so, this is really my first time seeing Mike really. Yeah. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.720 I'm not on the soccer circuit. I'm not in the 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.400 movie theater, and so we have not seen each other. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.240 Well, it's been we were saying an episode, first episode, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:09.800 how it's been two and a half years. I mean 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.119 since we even did you know we've we were married. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:14.399 It's it's been a minute. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.120 That's crazy. It's crazy. It kind of feels like yesterday 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.280 and also a lifetime ago. Honestly, No, there's yeah, we 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.000 have two babies to show for it. So it had 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:23.280 to be. 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.600 All right, everybody raise your head. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:34.280 If you're wildly uncomfortable. Right, I have a question to 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:36.480 open it up. Why does Mike dig wear his shoes 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:42.680 in here? And we do? Oh, you're not new. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.000 For the comedy relie. 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.680 We got to do something. Uh. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:52.520 So I think a big piece of divorce is divorce 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:53.600 and friendships as well. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:55.000 And so. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.559 Obviously, something that I was going to say and when 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.320 I was talking with the girls early on the first 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:06.880 podcast was in a way we've uh we have a 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:13.120 great relationship now a new relationship. And I always wondered 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.639 if it was hard for the girls because all of 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.280 a sudden, like okay, Mike and Air good, but like 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.080 we need to be good because for the kids. But 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.840 you guys have had your whords. Yeah, we're like what 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:21.679 about us and Mike? 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:24.480 And so it's I'm like. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:26.840 Christal a little bit. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.480 Yeah, And so I think it's hard because it's like 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.000 they were your friends too, but you just you know, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.600 when people leave divorces, it's we people friends kind of 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.640 separate a little bit, right, and that can be hard 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:44.120 for all parties involved, exactly, especially when things can. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.200 Be uncomfortable, like at the moment. Want to. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:49.280 Know, I guess not. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.600 All right, Well this is a great thirty message. Okay, 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.600 Well I have a question that maybe well it's going 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.120 to go we'll go in fast. But it relates to that, okay, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.200 because the last tame, last time I think I actually 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:07.920 saw you was in your old home, and it is 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.840 absolutely incredible to me that I could avoid someone as 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.600 big as you as much as I did, Like you 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.040 did not exist to me, and that was hard for me, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.360 because you know me enough to know that's hard for me. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:19.680 Yes. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.600 I also I was telling kat this I in the 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.919 compassion human part of me because I'm very much Janna 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.600 first like you, and we've all talked about this on 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:34.600 wine Down before that. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.520 I loved you as long as Janna loved you. Jane 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:39.160 didn't love you. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.280 I was getting the garbage bags and extra set of 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.839 hands because you're a big guy. Correct, Okay, read about 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.880 that in the good fight we did. Yeah, so, but 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.920 in the compassionate part of me, I also know a 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:53.680 lot about you from us being on the road and 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.920 being friends, and I know your history, and I know 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.160 fourteen year old Mike and what has set the tone 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.160 for fourteen year old Mike's life and the habits that 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.120 fourteen year old Mike picked up that had stayed with 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:11.080 him through marriage. And so the compassionate part of me 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.560 wants to know, how did it feel when you watch 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.920 it all dismantled the way it dismantled, because it was 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.960 it feels to me quick once it was decided, it 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:31.360 was like we're moving you out. You are like it 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.760 just was. It just happened so fast that I also 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.640 wondered was there a moment in your walk, because we 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.440 hear about Jamna's walk, But was there a moment where 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.760 you thought, I'm really just watching this all fall apart 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.640 like my friends are, because there's a guy group at 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.760 that point, there's a husband group, there's you know, I've 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.320 been on Wine Down with you and Jana. We've been 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.719 driving through Texas. We had a two tall mic series, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.120 like we've had these histories with each other, and all 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.880 of a sudden, all of the people that have like 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.599 brought you into the fold. Are also like drawbridge is up. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:06.280 God saved the Queen. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:15.280 Yeah, that's exactly how it felt good, right, No, none 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.120 of that's a surprise to me. That's the thing. It's like, 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:26.719 as much as we were all friends too, I knew that, yeah, right, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.760 But that's part of all, even going back to nine 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.280 years ago when I first moved here for Jana, right, Like, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.120 it's just I left all of my people, my friends, 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.760 and so I knew immediately everyone that I became friends 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:46.480 with we're going to be attached to Janna. It's hard 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.600 to go back because it does, like Catherine said, it 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.680 feels like yesterday, but also ten years ago, two and 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:57.440 a half years ago, and a lot has changed since then, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:04.320 so it's hard to really recall exactly what I was feeling. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:11.800 I just knew the difference at that point was as 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:13.800 bad as it was and painful as it was for everyone, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.960 I was like, this, this just has to happen a 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:29.920 little relieving, partly terrifying, isolating. I was felt completely alone, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:37.440 but it needed to happen. And one thing that's coming 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.839 up for me now that I said to my therapist, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:48.560 then to my my, my men's groups, my whatever, I don't. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.840 I don't say this necessarily with pride. I say it 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:59.239 to affirm how badly that needed to happen. I didn't 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:05.039 shed a tear year after we separated and divorced, not 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:10.400 because I didn't care. I truly believed. I was like, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.440 because this is unlike me. I'm still an emotional person. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.480 I've always been like an emotional person, but I physically 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.920 couldn't cry. And what that was telling me was like, 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:28.040 God is like literally hardening my heart right now. He's like, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.760 I got to get you, you guys out of this cycle, 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.200 because that's helping nobody. It's not helping Jana, it's not 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.000 helping you, not helping your kids, not helping your families, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:53.239 your friends, nobody. And that lasted for a long time 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.080 where it just no matter how much I talked about 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:02.160 it from a therapeutical standpoint, spiritual standpoint, I just never 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.240 really purged that emotion because it was something bigger than myself. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.520 Not to get hokey on it, but spiritually it was 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.760 something bigger than me. To be like this is ending now. Period. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.960 You don't think it's a detachment because you do have 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.560 a history of detaching, right. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.840 And I know the difference. That's that's the thing where 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.720 it's like, Okay, this is this is different. This isn't 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.880 me detaching to save myself. This is out of my hands. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.080 At this point, I can kind of. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.559 I mean, I don't relate to the not crying piece 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.200 I was like or on crid bo days, but the 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.000 moment that I worried about in the laundry, why didn't 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:43.880 we didn't fight back? 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:44.880 I didn't fight back. 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.400 That was my that moment for you where I was like, oh, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:54.280 it's done because the fight was gone, and that was 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:55.880 like that I can so I can relate to that 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.360 moment too, or it's like a yeah. 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.439 We did you Did you ever feel when y'all were 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.080 going through this though that it was toxic and then 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:06.920 it needed to end? 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:08.760 Did you ever feel that way? 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:17.160 Yeah? Of course, Yeah definitely. But at that point, part 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.640 of me didn't know what was real and what was 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.440 not sure right, because so much of our identity was 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:34.640 that it's like Mike messes up poor Janna, same narrative, 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.320 different time of year. Uh, we talk about it, we 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:40.960 write about it, we do all these things, we do 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.760 work on it, and it was just like this cyclical 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.880 lifestyle that we were never getting out of. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.280 But the piece of that that was repetitive was you 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:54.440 also me. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.520 I couldn't like, I don't want to just like give 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.840 it all Mike. But it's hard turn to ask Mike no, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.400 But I think it was. It's not totally fair just 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.160 to put that no no. But the pattern of the 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.640 that's what I'm saying, that was yes him, and then 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.760 it would bring out But I told you the anxious attachment. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:15.199 I've said that to you. I'm kind of protection a 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:15.679 little bit. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.240 That's fine. Mike's not really scared of me, let's be honest. 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.280 But I'm just patterns, but also in the in his 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:30.120 patterns without without his patterns and with his patterns here. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:38.280 Yeah, I'm just this is the cause and effect I'm talking. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.600 I'm trying to get out of those no like I mean, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.199 I'm just I'm also asking questions that listeners would want 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.439 to know. You guys were on this, This was your 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.640 show for a long time, and you know, like people 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.959 want to know that stuff, like because that is how 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.880 it looked. It looked like you do this. This happens, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:11:00.680 there's apology, Jana cries, you know, but I saw and 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.640 I said this to Jana before, and I've said it 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.960 to you, like I always thought you guys would be 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.600 the best of friends. I always saw you as best friends. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.720 I was like, if you guys could just get it 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.120 together on the marriage side, I just knew it would 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.920 be epic. Like I've always seen you as homies. So 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.640 that I think was That's kind of the thing for 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.559 me is I'm like, does it feel like I watched 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.920 her anxious attachment? I watched it sometimes I suffocated for you. 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.280 I knew why she was doing it, though, because what 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.680 other choices she have, Like she has to check and 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.960 double check and triple check and then sit down in 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.480 a check in and a check check because if she doesn't, 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.240 something's going to slip through the cracks, and something's going 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.040 to make the bottom fall out, and something's going to 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.079 take her trust away again. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.120 Yeah, I don't disagree with you, right, you know. That's 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.720 the thing over the last two and a few years, 0:11:54.720 --> 0:12:00.120 I own my pard and everything and I always and 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.160 I have on my part now. Yeah, and that's the 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.640 whole thing where it got It's got so cyclical or 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.640 even in my mind at the time, I would still 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.280 try to put on Jamie. I was like, well, if 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:18.280 you just gave me some space, this wouldn't happen. Is 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.960 there some fact and truth behind that? Sure to a degree, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.760 But that's how bad that cycle got where we didn't 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.880 even know where it beginning ended it anymore. It's like, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:31.760 did it really begin with me doing something again? Or 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.200 did what? The same pattern was there, but it was 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.959 so lost that at that point it didn't even matter. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.800 What would you say to couples then going through that piece, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.679 because I think that's the hard part because I get 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.880 a lot of people that say, do you believe in 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.720 your book? And I still to this day will say yes, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.040 I do, absolutely, But there's a piece of me that 0:12:54.160 --> 0:13:00.280 also goes when that trust is broken. Maybe one you 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.120 can get over it, but the amount of times I 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.719 don't know if that's actually I don't know, and I 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.520 don't know if that's just a personal like a It 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:14.040 takes a very strong person to let go of that 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.320 resentment and actually trust them. Because I would say I 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.679 trusted you, I never trusted you. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.880 You say that you didn't. It was the same thing. 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:22.520 So it was like. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.520 You did not not resentle because it's like we were 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.680 saying things we didn't really believe it we wanted to 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.400 believe it. But I'm like, I still struggle with that answer. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.640 When people go, well, if they've done it again, I'm like, 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.360 I don't know what even to say because I know 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.960 what it did to me not trusting and you know 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.760 what resentment and feeling suffocated to you. So it's like, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.520 I don't I think people could get over in fidelity 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.600 if it happens maybe once, but I don't know if 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.560 I could if twice, how people can form a new 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.360 because I can't let that stuff go. 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:57.760 I realized that in me. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.480 Yeah, I don't think. I'm just curious that's your case 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.480 case basis, it takes special people to get over it 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.640 even once. Now, what I will say, and I'm with you, 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.520 I've defended the book where I'm like, I still believe 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.680 in the things that we talked about in there. We 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.240 were just in a place that was too far gone. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:20.800 But I will say this now having been through all 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.040 of that, and you can probably attest to this if 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:32.360 something were to happen in another relationship done and because 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:40.520 we spend a lifetime dealing with that, and so I 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.480 don't know. For the people that ask, I don't know 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.040 that that's my answer I don't know because I don't 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:45.960 know your relationship. 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.040 I think it also depends on the willingness for people 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.520 to want to dig deep and make a change, and 0:14:54.360 --> 0:15:02.920 also the actual just like chemistry and workability of two people. Yeah, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:04.480 I was because the ones cheer, I'm like, well, yeah, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.760 I've cheated in my past. I wouldn't cheat in this relationship. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:09.640 Just because he cheated in the past doesn't mean he'll 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.520 cheat in his her next relationship. So it's like the 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.680 ones cheater, I was cheated, not really, but maybe in 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.440 the mirror. It's like it's just sore. It's like you 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.200 just don't know the ins and outs of the relationship. 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.000 So it's like I just I always say for me personally, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.720 once trust is broken, I have to physically walk away 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:27.920 or I will become controlling, manipulated, you know, suffocating, intolerable. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:29.160 I will agree. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.520 I'll say this because I've obviously been asked this question 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.880 a lot, and whether it's I'm dating or whatever, or 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.600 people ask me it's like, oh, will you do you 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.360 think you'll cheat again? And my my whole concept of 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:49.840 that has flipped, where before I would answer is like no, 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.280 because I wouldn't want to hurt you, right, Like I 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.440 wouldn't want to hurt the other person At this point, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.880 I'm like, it has nothing to do with not wanting 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.520 to hurt the other person, has everything to do selfishly 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.720 with I refuse to be in a relationship where I 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:10.160 feel like I'm in a down position. Ever again, ever again, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:16.320 Like that's the thing. If there's nothing else, if I 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.880 am actually just a terrible person and a piece of crap, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.440 if there's anything else stopping me, it's that I refuse 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.200 to be live in a down position? 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.600 Did you want me? I always wondered. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.680 I'm like, did you want me to do something so 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.640 that you could have a reason to be out, so 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:49.840 that you wouldn't be the down? 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.000 Not so I wouldn't not so I would have an out, 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.400 but sure so the playing field. 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.680 Was Yeah, really glarn a lot of airreor. 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.000 I think that's something we all kind of felt like 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.320 that was probably the case. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.919 Catherine, I think you've got some where y'all's relationship. Not 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.600 to take away from none of our guyses, but I 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.760 think there's some stuff that maybe you'd like to clear 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.040 to not have the. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.240 I wish people could be in this room. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:27.920 I know writing cut the tension with an eye. 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.520 Well, first of all, hearing you say the cycle, I'm 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.680 really nervous, Like this is hard for me. I want 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.080 you to know that, and I'll probably cry, so just 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.560 bear with. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.880 Me, but say why, because I think it was beautiful 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.320 what you said last night on the plane. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.160 Hearing you say the cycle, first of all, I want 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.000 you to know more than anything that that's what I 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.439 always saw. It wasn't just Mike the cheater, and I 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.280 know it probably felt that way to you, but I 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.560 need you to know that I saw the cycle. I 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.640 saw what happened. I saw how she reacted, I saw 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.439 how she did the things that she did. I truly 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.520 could see all of it. But I had to be 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.080 on her side. She's my best friend, she's you know. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:14.399 And I still struggle with that now because I feel 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.320 like obviously we lost a friendship, but like I loved 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.399 you through it too, you know, And it was really hard. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.399 It was a really hard place to be in. And 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.680 I don't I don't take back anything that I said. 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.639 I don't take back anything because I truly, deep down 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.480 knew y'all could not make it work. I wanted to 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.720 believe her when she wanted to stay, and she wanted 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.800 to try to, and every time she did, I made 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:44.080 the decision to still love you and still try with y'all. Essentially, 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.320 I know it wasn't I wasn't in the marriage, but 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.800 at times I felt like I was, and maybe I 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.160 shouldn't have been, but I was put in that position 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:56.640 at times. And there's really not much I even want 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.639 to ask you. There's not much. I just want you 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:03.800 to know that more than any thing, because it hurt 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.159 me too, you know, I mean, we felt I think 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.160 as friends, we all felt lied to, we all felt 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:14.399 like we had a friendship that was ripped apart. Yeah, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.920 and it's just it's been. It's been actually really hard 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.400 on me. And I don't even remember what I said 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.960 in the first one, but it's you know, it's it's 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.440 not easy being on this side either. 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:28.800 But I also want you to know I hear you. 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.840 Even though you haven't said this, I'm sure you feel 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.760 like it was very one sided and I just hated 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.879 you and I you know, I like to think that 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.880 I still treated you well during that time. I don't remember. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.320 Maybe I had some resentment too. I'm not even. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:52.639 Sure I appreciate that. The thing is like I've remember 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:58.639 had necessarily anything against either one of you guys or 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.240 anyone else, because it wasn't a surprise to me, because 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.239 like we talked about the beginning of this episode, like I, 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.760 you guys are going to default to Jana. I get that, but. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.520 I defaulted to you so many times on behalf of 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:18.080 yourself behind the scenes too. It wasn't like she can 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.360 attest to that. I was always like, I. 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.159 That doesn't surprise me, and I believe that when you 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.480 say it. That's the thing, it's my thing, is like, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.879 all right, after all this stuff happens, what am I 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:36.400 going to say? 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:37.280 Right? 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.360 How many times have you guys, over the last almost 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.480 ten years that we've known each other, how many times 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.239 have you heard me say I'm sorry? Right? And how 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:53.320 many times did something happen again? Right? And you guys 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.520 were hurt again and Channa was hurt again. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:02.080 Well, and I'm not even carrying it like I'm like, 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.600 you hurt me personally. I think I just I think 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.520 I just saw more in you than you even saw 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.640 on yourself. I got sad because you guys have two 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.960 beautiful kids. 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:16.640 I think it's all of it, that's just the one. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.480 Yeah, I mean also friendship, like you know me, Mike, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.879 like I don't like to be a dick to anybody, Like, 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:23.440 don't make me be a dick to you? Is where 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.320 I was getting to, you know. But then it also 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.760 is just like I was so mad at you because 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.400 I just kept being like, fucking get it together. 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:33.359 We have a. 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.440 Family here, like you have a family. And I get 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.560 it now, And I even got it then. I think 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.679 I understood it so much, and that's maybe why I 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.040 was so mad, as I was just like, I know, 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.000 this isn't just a Jana thing. I know this isn't 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.000 just a Mic thing. But I was like, can somebody 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:49.840 just get out of the cycle so we can just 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:54.880 and listen? I see it now. The thirty thousand feet 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:59.640 perspective is stunning. I mean, I love Alan, I love 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.239 who Jenna is. Janna's a different human. This is a 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.280 completely different Janna than you were married to. This is 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.440 a different Jana than people knew in the Good Fight. 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.680 I mean, the amount of absolute trench work this chick 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.640 is done, and she's not even saying I'm done, I'm healed. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.880 It's just different and it's calmer, and it's more certain, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:27.400 and it's honest, and I get why it all had 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.520 to fall apart. I just want you to know that 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.720 I was never going like I mean, it was finally 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:35.000 where I just look at channel I was like, it's 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.840 just time because I was watching it all be the same, 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:41.640 and I hated it, and I hated it for you 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.160 because I actually do think you can be a really 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.360 good dude. I think that's where my frustration came in. 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.400 Yeah, and I know that I am and. 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.720 I mean, I'm Juris out, but for me was gien. 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:01.000 And I agree with you with the things you're about China. 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.520