WEBVTT - #050 Jason Flom with Ronald Cotton 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.080 America has two point two million people in prison. If 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.200 just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two thousand people. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.039 That's a lot of people's lives destroyed. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.440 If the system want to take you out of society, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.800 they will do it no matter what laws they have 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.680 to break, saying that they are enforcing the laws, but 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:25.800 they're breaking the lord. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.360 Having to hear those people say that I was guilty 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.479 of a crime that I did not commit, and then 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.559 hear my family break down behind me and not be 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.600 able to do anything about it. I can't describe the 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:38.640 crushing weight that was. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.680 I'm not anti police, I'm just anti corruption. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.840 A lot of times we look and we see something 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.200 happen to somebody, and that's the first thing we said, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:50.720 that could never happen to me, But. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:01:16.000 They can. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.200 Conviction with Jason Flamm. Today's episode is one of a 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.920 kind because I have two people here who are truly 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.400 one of a kind, both individually and together. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.080 Their story begins in nineteen eighty four, when Jennifer was 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:35.080 a college student in North Carolina. A man broke into 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:36.240 her apartment. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.320 Even as she was being raped. Jennifer summoned the strength 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.679 to study her attacker. She tried to memorize his face, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:44.520 his eyes, his hair. 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.120 Jennifer eventually escaped, eventually made her way to the police, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.400 where she used that image burned in her mind for 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.639 an artist to create this sketch. That guy, she says 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.960 she was one hundred percent sure about, was Ronald Cotton. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.200 Ronald Cotton was twenty two years old and worked at 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.360 a seafood restaurant near Jennifer's home. 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.760 Ronald went to trial Jennifer again I d'd him in court. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.920 It took a jury four hours to convict him, and 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.600 a judge sentenced him till life. Eleven years went by. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.880 Cotton maintained his innocence. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.600 Scientists were able to isolate a tiny fragment of sperm 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.560 that they could test. The results confirmed what he had 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.640 been saying all along. The DNA did not match. On 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.680 June thirtieth, nineteen ninety five, Ronald Cotton walked out of 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.840 the Alamance County Courthouse a freeman. 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.120 Without further ado. Ronald Cotton, Welcome to rafel conviction. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.440 Thank you pleasure to be here today. 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:45.519 And with him is Jennifer Thompson. Welcome to raful conviction. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:46.400 Thank you, Jason. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.040 Let's go back to the beginning first of all, but 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.919 talking about North Carolina and Jennifer's that where you grew up. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.040 Yes, yes, I grew up in Winston Sale, North Carolina. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.840 But the crime happened in Burlington, North Carolina when I 0:02:58.840 --> 0:02:59.640 was a college student. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.640 And of course it's a client that Ronald was wrongfully 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.880 convicted of. But at the time it seemed like an 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.400 open and shutcase. And that's one of the things that 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.880 makes this story so important. Again, Let's go back to 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.880 that time. You were a twenty two year old girl 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.440 becoming a woman. You sort of had the world at 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.160 your feet, so to speak, right, and everything to look 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:30.720 forward to until one horrible night. Yes, and can you 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.840 tell us about that night and how this all started? 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.520 Sure? Sure, I had gone to bed on July twenty eighth, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.480 nineteen eighty four alone. I had had a headache that evening, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.880 so my boyfriend that I was dating at the time, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.320 we were talking about getting married, took me home. I 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.920 went to sleep around nine o'clock and didn't really hear 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.040 anything that was going on in the community. There was 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.800 police kind of circling the neighborhood. They were looking for 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.160 someone who had attempted to break into a neighbor's house. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.360 We know now that they couldn't find him because he 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.560 was hiding out in my apartment. So around three am 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.720 on July twenty ninth, I heard a noise in the bedroom, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.440 like feet moving across the carpet. Of course, I lived alone, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.160 and as I kind of woke up and that in 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.120 between place of being awake and asleep, I saw the 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.320 top of a person's head beside my mattress and I 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.479 quickly asked, who was that? Who's there? And a man 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.560 jumped up on my bed. I screamed. He covered my 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.320 mouth with a gloved hand and put a knife to 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.560 the left side of my throat and told me to 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:32.919 shut up. He was going to kill me. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.120 It's literally a horror movie like this. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.880 Oh yeah, it's a horror movie. There's several things going on, right, 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.600 I mean, you're trying to figure out what's happening. It's 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.520 that that place where you're you're wondering if this is 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.680 a dream or this is really happening, and then you 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.880 realize that you are in terrible danger. I knew, I 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.400 knew that he was going to rate me. That was 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.400 very clear. But what you don't know, no survivor ever knows, 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.479 is was he going to kill me? And I honestly 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.159 believe that I'd probably not live, that he would slip 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:06.920 my throat, that he would, you know, beat me. And 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.599 you start wondering in those moments, how quickly will I 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.840 be able to die? And while I feel it as 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.680 I'm dying, will it be painful? Will it you know? 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.080 Will it just be quick and over with? And you 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.880 start thinking about your parents, You start thinking about your future, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.800 You start thinking about the things that you're going to miss, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.919 and you you know, the things you wish you had said, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.360 and that was what was happening, and that you know 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:34.640 that moment when when you realize that this could be 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.520 the last thing that ever touches your skin. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.240 Be cliche about your whole life lashing before your eyes, 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:40.080 It's really true, isn't it. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.120 It's really true. It's really true. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.599 And I know you've spoken about how you at that 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.440 moment you made a commitment to do everything you could 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:56.360 not only to survive, but to memorize every detail of 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:01.960 your assailant, your attacker, your your torturer, so that you 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:08.240 could identify him. I mean that's some very amazingly sort 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.799 of clear thinking at a time of utmost terror. Right, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:18.039 you were a clear eyed college student. You weren't high 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.359 or stoned, you hadn't been out drinking that night. You 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:28.520 were perfect for this particular task that now lay in 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.200 front of you. When this attack finally ended, And how 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:33.400 long did it go on for? 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.040 By the way, well, from the beginning of when he 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.200 woke me up to when I was able to escape 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.440 was probably around twenty minutes. The assault lasted probably five 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:45.960 and I was able to talk him off of me 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:51.200 after part of the assault had happened, because I knew 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.599 that I needed to find a way to escape. But 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.680 during that time, when I was trying to figure out 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.720 a plan, I was able to stand close to him, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.839 to gauge his height, to gauge his weight, to remember 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.640 his clothing. I mean, everything became important to me that night. 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.760 And I'm glad you said task because that's exactly what 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.280 was happening in my head. I was very task driven, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.840 I mean, a survive, find a way to live and 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.440 be watch him rotten hell for the rest of his life. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.280 So I was making a very concerted effort to pay 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.800 attention to everything even listening to his voice as he 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.160 began to talk to me, trying to pick up any 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.880 details that he might you know, kind of drop, and 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.240 I could remember in getting myself into different positions of light. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.800 It was all, you know, part of that need to survive, 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.000 and that task gave me that need and will to 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.640 survive until I was able to escape after about twenty minutes. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:49.400 You made this amazing commitment to this process right when 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.000 I think most people would have just been focused on 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.440 getting out of there. Right, and if this wasn't enough 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.360 of a horror movie scenario, your sailing had cut the 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.720 phone line as well. Right, He had. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.080 Cut the phone line. He had been in my apartment 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.520 for hours, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer out of my refrigerator. 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.480 He'd stolen money out of my wallet. He'd even gone 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.080 through a photo album and taken photographs of me out 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.320 and actually asked permission. He said, I hope you don't mind, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.120 but I took some of the photographs of you to keep. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.840 I mean, it was it was a mental, physical torture, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:32.600 and you know, it was sexual assault and violence. It 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.320 is a forever thing. And he changed me that night 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.720 in ways that I that you know, the girl was 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:48.079 just the girl died that night. She she was gone. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:53.040 You did manage to escape, obviously and run down the road, 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.880 which was a very brave thing to do, not knowing 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:57.680 you know, he could have come after you, and he 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:58.440 did come after me. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.080 He chased me through the. 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:06.600 Dark, unreal. But you out ran him. Is that basically 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:07.280 how to come down? 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.679 I outran. The trick for me was I knew I 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.440 had to get to light, and I knew he wouldn't 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.920 come under light with me. So I found a carport 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.079 that was on at a house that I didn't know 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.040 who lived there. I just kind of prayed that people 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.920 were there, but I knew he wouldn't come underneath that 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.880 carport because if someone was home, they would see him. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.360 So that kept him away from me. As I banged 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.760 on the door, and fortunately the husband and wife and 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.600 the family were there, and the woman recognized me. She 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.760 was a professor at the college I was attending. I 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.720 didn't take any of her classes, but she had seen 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.840 me on campus and they let me in and basically 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:44.480 saved my life. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:51.640 Well, what a story I have any words? Now, Ronald, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.360 let me turn to you for a second. So did 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.480 you live in the same town I did yes. And 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:02.480 in the days and weeks prior to your arrest, were 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.199 you aware of this was this big local news? 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.240 Well, I guess it was. The week before I got arrested. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.880 Me and my brother were standing on the Sweet corner 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.520 and I let a newspaper, local newspaper down and in 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.520 the rapper. I pulled it out the rapper on the 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:21.600 front page and there was this SketchUp guy and it 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.000 described him and showing a picture of him and instruction 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.960 that he committed a crime upon this female and it 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.319 was Jennifer. I didn't know Jennifer, you know. I just 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.199 read the article and I told my brother then that 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:36.920 I don't know who the guy is. But when they 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.080 get him, I said, he's through, you know, he's done. 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.720 And uh. Well, that following Monday, I went home from 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.120 not staying in the hotel with my girlfriend, and my 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.880 mother and boyfriend told me as I approached the door 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.720 that the police had been looking for me, and I 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.200 went down to find out for that particular crime. 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:02.120 Now, prior to this nightmare unfolding in your life, how 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.840 was your life before that? How old were you? 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:11.199 I was about the same age. Well, I had been 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.920 working at local restaurants and you know, seafood places and uh. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.360 And at the particular moment in the time, I was 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.160 not working. I was unemployed. I was in the process 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.400 I building that application here and there, you know, trying 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:25.640 to become employed. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:25.920 Uh. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.120 But that particular time, I had been in the fast 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.240 lane running the bars. And you know, I had quit 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.240 school and and I was working. I was just enjoying 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.440 life in general. Once my mother boyfriend instructed me that 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.920 the cops were looking for me, I had walked inside 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.680 the apartment. I know. It was a paper there on 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.920 a television. It had named on it. So I took 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.560 the paper. I read it, and instruction on it was 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.320 how this individual had entered the Stompson apartment and committed 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.920 to scrime upon her. And I said, no, they got 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.640 the wrong guy. And some of my mother boyfriend said, well, 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.440 you all gonna get it straightened out. And so I 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.200 walked outside and I looked across the road and I 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.680 noticed my neighbor Patricia was standing on the front board sweeping, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.720 and I walked over and asked her to bought her 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.640 car to drive down the police apartment and see what's 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.280 going on in this matter. I said, well, I take 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.440 my sister Tuoty with me just in case they locked 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.920 me up, and that way she can bring your car back. 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.000 So on our way there, we buried off and went 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.400 by my girlfriend Teresa's place, and she come running to 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.559 the car and crying, holling Ryan and Ron the police 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.280 been over here looking for you, saying that you rate 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.199 this woman. And she said, I know you didn't. I said, no, 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.800 I did not. I said, baby, we're all getting ready 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.760 to go to the police department right now and trying 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.839 to get this minter taken care of. So I want 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.760 to ride. So we all hopped in the car and 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.520 went down and pulled in the parking lot. I exited 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.920 the car. I was approaching the police apartment and I 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.960 looked up. You know, it was about two three stories high, 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.040 and the older cops that was I saw him looking 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.000 at the window. Rush away from the wonder and run 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.160 downstairs and met me at the door. And out the 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.040 door pops Mike Golden, and uh, he saidthing detected, Mike Goldan. 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.640 I said, yes, I heard you. I've been looking for 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.199 me for a crime in the community that I need committed. 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:13.400 Uh. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.160 He said, well, come on inside and let's talk. About it, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.440 and uh, you know, trying to get this thing worked out. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.440 So I went inside and the alibi that I gave 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.320 them was totally different, because you know, I parted a 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:26.880 lot and I wasn't keeping up with everything. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.760 So how long after the actual crime was this taking place? 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:32.640 Augustry? First? 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:33.320 Three days? 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:33.600 Yeah? 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:34.439 Oh, sub short time. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.960 Augustr first around about twelve thirty, and we went upstairs 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.240 and they began to ask me a question about Jennifer. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.360 You want They ended, I want in this woman apartment, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.560 committed all the acts un her, and I said, I 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.719 kept telling him, no, I did not. I said, my 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.720 reason for coming down here, for trying to get this 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.320 matter taken care of. And then the police chief he 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.640 told me that, yeah, I took a flashlight and held 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.520 it in a woman's facing rape, which I was I said, 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.240 I convict him. Happened that night as well. I told him, Noah, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:07.559 I said, you got me wrong. You know I did 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.240 not commit this crime. He said yeah, he said, you 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.320 think you missed the big stuff going around town swim 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.719 white women. I said, sir, you're totally wrong. I did 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.280 not commit these crimes. Then they was instructed to take 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:20.960 me in a room and lock me up, you know, 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.800 photograph me, fangle print me, and they took me down 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.720 to that Damans County jail, put mine one hundred and 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.160 fifty thousand dollars bail. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.200 And there was no way you could post that. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.720 No, I was there ontil due date. 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.160 A trial actually didn't walk out for eleven years. Yes, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.520 I mean that night you spent in the motel was 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.120 the last night you spent as a free man. Yes, 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:56.840 until this whole thing was finally resolved all those years later. So, Jennifer, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.360 you had now seen his picture see Royn's picture in 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.840 a photo array, and you had identified him, and now 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.120 they had him under arrest, so you must have felt 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.800 a huge sense of relief I did. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.200 I mean, there had been another rape immediately after mine, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.960 and we knew it was the same person. An hour later, 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.800 a mile down the road, there's another woman who's assaulted, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.400 and I felt that we had a serial rapist in 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.080 the community and he needed to be removed. So yes, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.560 I thought a huge sense of relief after I knew 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.360 that he had been arrested and of course would be 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.320 held over for probable cause and we would go to trial, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.000 which became a next task. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.680 How did they know that it was the same person. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.800 It was a description of the clothing. Both of us 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.400 had said that the person who had attacked us had 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.960 had on a navy blue shirt with three white stripes 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.280 that went along as biceps. He had on khaki tight pants. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.800 He had white gloves that were knit. I mean, both 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.800 of us had the same exact description. And as he 0:15:59.920 --> 0:16:05.240 was running from the second rape survivor, police were being called, 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.480 and he actually passed the police, so there was a 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.920 police that actually got a short glimpse of the assailants, 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.200 so we knew it was the same person. It was 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.600 the same person who had attempted to break into the 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.040 woman before me, because she had said the same thing 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.920 and arm was coming through her door, blew shirt with 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.840 white stripes, nick gloves. She just happened to be awake 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.800 and called the police. So he never assaulted the first woman. 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:33.200 The other woman who was raped, Was she involved in 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.400 this process in any way? Did they show her the 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.040 same photo array and if so, did she identify ron 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:39.480 as well? 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.000 They did show her the same array, and she was 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.720 much older than me. And during her assault, he hit 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.960 her and bitter and put a flashlight in her eyes 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.840 and put a pillow on her face when he raped her, 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.040 So she was not able to get the same kind 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.200 of description and details that I was able to get. 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.840 And so when she went to the photographic lineup and 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.520 physical lineup, she wasn't sure. She said that I think 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.119 it's number four, but it could be number five. And 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.840 so the district attorney made the decision to not try 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.040 the cases together, that they would only try my case 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.880 because basically they had a better conviction with just my identification. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.080 Right again, yours was perfect, seemingly right right. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.720 I literally was called the perfect witness. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.240 Yeah, so you're in prison. You're getting some sleep now, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.360 hopefully by not really, where were you staying, by the way, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.000 when this rapist was still on the loose. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.119 I was staying about three miles off campus in a 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:36.440 condominium complex. 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.199 But you didn't stay in your own apartment after this? 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.080 Oh no, I never returned, just only for my things. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.760 And you know, again, the thing about being an assault 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.280 survivor is when when you're broken, like I was broken, 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.240 you can't ever return to that place that you were before. 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.720 And I talk to people, your lens that you look 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:01.120 at through the world becomes distorted and everything you choose 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.040 becomes seen through that distortion. Your place in the world 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.480 is now distorted. What value do I have? 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:08.720 You know? 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.800 Where do you go from here? Because who you were 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.480 before is no longer an option and it's now trying 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.840 to recreate this new person. But you have no support. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.399 So people didn't want to hang out with me. My 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.560 family wouldn't talk to me about it. My boyfriend said 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.119 he just couldn't handle it, so he broke up with me. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:33.359 I mean, literally everything in my world was gone, and 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:39.240 your task now with trying to somehow recover. And I 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.439 use that like with a big sigh, because it is 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.640 a forever recovery. It's just as long as you live, 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:47.720 you're still in recovery. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.160 It's hard for me to adam how those particular people 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.600 who were so close and intimate with you made exactly 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.200 the wrong choice ron back to you. So you are 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.520 in crazyland now, right because you can't possibly understand I 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.040 imagine why this is happening. And now all of a sudden, 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.000 you find yourself in the situation that you had just 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.560 been discussing with your brother, right, you had just predicted 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.639 your own fate actually right, because you had said, whoever 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.160 they get well of this guy's going down whatever, right, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.639 that's right, and now it's you. The day of the 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.480 trial comes. How long had you been held by then? 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.160 About four months? 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.080 Four months, so you had been in for quite a while. 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.560 And the jail. I don't know how that jail was, 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.480 but we know that a lot of the jails in 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.520 America are even worse and even more dangerous and scary 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.080 than the maximum security prisons. Was this jail one of those? 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.919 I wasn't one of those. Just a lot of guys 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.960 talking jump and you know, if you wanted to make 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.440 a stand, you know, you took a chance, you know. 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:50.879 So, Jennifer back to you. So the day of the 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.840 trial comes, you're there hoping to get some closure, right. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.600 Well yeah, closure is such an interesting part. Well yeah, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.000 I mean you're looking for justice, is what you're looking for. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.120 And that's what I was looking for. I was looking 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.639 for him to be held responsible for what he had 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.800 done to not just me, but the other woman who 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.560 wasn't going to be able to tell her story and 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.119 other women who could never find justice. So it was 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.000 like kind of this thing I needed, I really needed 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.720 it to move to the next place of my life. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.440 And the trial was over, two weeks long. 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.480 Wow, Yeah, that's a long trial. I'm actually surprised it 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:30.200 was that long. But by now you had identified ron 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.440 in a photo array and in a lineup, and it's 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.840 important to highlight the fact that he was the only 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.919 person that was featured in both the photo array and 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.359 the lineup that is correct, which is obviously going to 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:48.160 have some impact on your perception, your memory, right. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.080 And of course what we know now is that the 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.000 perpetrator was never in any of the lineups. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.679 So it seems like they did what they could in 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.480 a very imperfect system to try to be in harshall. 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:01.520 Was that accurate? 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:02.040 Not? 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.399 Really. They had thought before I went down to do 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.800 the photographic lineup, they had believed that Ronald Cotton had 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.640 actually committed these crimes. So during the first lineup, which 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.960 was the photographic lineup and what they call six pack, 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.640 and I had been given some instructions to take my time, 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.479 not feel compelled to choose anyone, which was pretty modern 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:23.800