1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Rebecca Nagel. Here before we get into this episode, I 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: wanted to let you know that you can hear episodes 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: of First America early and ad free by signing up 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus. You'll also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks, 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and other binges from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Find Pushkin Plus on the First America Show page on 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm slash plus. Let's 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: get into it. Do you remember where you were on 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: the afternoon of January sixth, twenty twenty one. I remember 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: where I was climbing through the window of my then 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: boyfriend's house. It was pouring down rain. He was at work, 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: and I had two things that really sucked to have 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: at the same time, COVID and bedbugs. I needed to 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: isolate somewhere while my house was treated, but my boyfriend 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: forgot to leave out a key, so in I went 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: through the window. I remember sitting down on his couch, 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: exhausted and wet, and pulling up Twitter, and there I 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: saw a stream of images of an angry mob storming 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: the US Capitol. Lawmakers were barricading themselves into their offices. 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't clear if all of them were safe. It 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: was scary. It felt like maybe there wouldn't be a 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: peaceful transition of power, like our democracy was going off 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: the rails. And then I saw this image that made 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: me stop and go, wait, what the It was this 25 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: one rioter. He was bare chested, his face was covered 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: and paint. He carried a spear, and on his head 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: sat a fur and featherhead dress with horns. 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: He was among the first to break into the building 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: and headed for the US Senate Chamber, where he sat 30 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: in the presiding Officer's chair that was vacation by Vice 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: President Mike Pence and scribbled this note, It's only a 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 2: matter of time. Justice is coming. 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: It was the QAnon Chaman. I remember how much people 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: talked about him the days after January sixth. People found 35 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: him funny and strange, but also confusing. Why would a 36 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: white guy storming the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow 37 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election dress up like a Native American. 38 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: The answer to that question actually explains how the whole 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: thing happened in the first place. You're listening to First America, 40 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: the true story of how the United States came to 41 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: be and how our current political moment is two hundred 42 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: and fifty years in the making from Pushkin Industries and 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Critical Frequency. I'm your host, Rebecca n Agle Goheen dal 44 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: Dan Jeleca Yedlie gay La, citizen of Cherokee Nation. A 45 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: lot of people felt confused by the Qann Shaman's outfit. 46 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: You know how I felt tired. Whether it's sports mascots 47 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: or Coachella or Halloween, I see white people dress up 48 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: like natives all the time. It's exhausting to see this 49 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: racist character of your culture constantly reflected back to you. 50 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: But it's also defeating that despite all the advocacy Native 51 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: people have done, it keeps happening. And I wanted to 52 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: know why, Why do Americans keep doing this? And so 53 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: I went back in history to try and find where 54 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: it all started. In the beginning was a lot earlier 55 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: than I would have guessed. Last episode, we talked about 56 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: how the American Revolution started in Pennsylvania over Native land, 57 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: not in Boston over taxas well. For this episode, we 58 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: are going to Boston and we are covering the most 59 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: famous event leading up to the Revolution, the Boston Tea Party. 60 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: You've probably heard of the Boston Tea Party, but there's 61 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: a part of the story I bet you haven't heard, 62 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: and that's the native part. Earlier this year, I visited 63 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: the Boston Tea Party, Ships and Museum with my producer Keim. 64 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: Through the magic of historical tourism and reenactments, I was 65 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: able to travel back to the year of the Boston 66 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: Tea Party seventeen seventy three. And I met someone who's 67 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: going to help us tell the story, well, someone pretending 68 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: to be someone. 69 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 3: So my name is Archibald McNeil. I'm a rope maker 70 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: here in Boston. 71 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: His real name is Jeff. He works at the museum 72 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: as a tour guide. 73 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: Now I've been living in Boston my whole life. 74 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: Will you tell us what you're wearing. 75 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: I love getting to talk about my outfit. So I'm 76 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: wearing my striped green and white trousers, my trusty boots, 77 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 3: and then I'm wearing my linen shirt, and then I 78 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: have my short jacket here which is made of wool. 79 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: It is quite cold. And then I have right now 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 3: on a linen cap. 81 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: In his little outfit, he kind of reminded me of 82 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: a newsboy, but I know the time period is off. 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: As a tour guide, Jeff seemed really earnest. 84 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: I might not look like I have much money, but 85 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: my family does own land here in Boston. 86 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: At the museum, he tells the story of the Boston 87 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: Tea Party. See if you can catch the native part. 88 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: It starts in seventeen seventy three, when Boston is boiling 89 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: with anger. 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: Bostonians have been at the forefront of fighting back against 91 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: Tymannical taxes and oppression. 92 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: They're mad at George, the third King of England. George 93 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: has started imposing taxes on the colonies to pay for 94 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: that huge World war we talked about last episode, and 95 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: when the colonists protested in Boston, George Ison and troops. 96 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 3: I've witnessed the protests, and some of us even considered 97 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: an invasion by British forces in our own town. 98 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: When a crowd of colonists through snowballs and ice at 99 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: British soldiers, the soldiers fired into the crowd. 100 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: Five men were gunned down outside the State House. I 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: was there and watched some of my dear friends get killed. 102 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: This was the Boston massacre. 103 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: March fifth of seventeen seventy three. 104 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: Years later, the British Parliament passes a law called the 105 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: Tea Act. It gives us one British company a monopoly 106 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: over all tea ship to the Americas. That insult to injury. 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: The tea it wants to send is bad, it's old, 108 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: it's moldy. And then there's the tax. For every pound 109 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: of moldy tea. The colonists have to pay a three 110 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: pence import tax. Three ships of moldy monopoly tea are 111 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: docked in the Boston Harbor. 112 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 3: We cannot send the tea back. The moment that tea 113 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: is offloaded, the taxes have to be paid, and we 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: know what has to be done. 115 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: They decide to throw the tea into the harbor. 116 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: And so December sixteenth, in the middle of a snowstorm, 117 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: it's quite cold, About one hundred and fifty of us 118 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: storm down to Griffin's Wharf. We board the ships. There 119 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: are thousands on the shoreline watching us. Now some more. 120 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: And here's where I want you to pay attention to 121 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: what Archibald and his fellow colonists were wearing. 122 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: We cover ourselves in cloaks, coats, blankets, anything to disguise 123 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 3: our figures. Some folks might smear some lamp light soots 124 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: on their faces, this is going to be trees. And 125 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: after all, when we throw this tea into the harbor, 126 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: we want to make sure that none of us are recognizable. 127 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: There's an important detail missing, but we'll come back to that. 128 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: The only thing you can really hear is the breaking 129 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: of the chests and the splashing on the water. The 130 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: heaviest of these chests are weigh about four hundred pounds. 131 00:07:58,320 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 4: It's a lot of. 132 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: Tea to get all the way up above board. It's 133 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: packed in so tightly, and so we're having to hit 134 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: it and scrape it with our axes, boots, anything that 135 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: we can to get it loose. And it takes us 136 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 3: about three and a half hours to destroy ninety two thousand, 137 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 3: six hundred and sixteen pounds of tea. It's about ten 138 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: thousand pounds of British sterling worth of tea, which I believe, 139 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: in your day is approximately one point five million dollars 140 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: worth of property damage. 141 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: We had to cut our interview with Jeff the actor 142 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: short because it was time for him to start another tour. 143 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 5: Fortunately, I do have to give my office back here. 144 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 6: I should get a photo of you too. 145 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 5: He's actually about to ring the bell. 146 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: Of course, I appreciate it. Of course, as a tour guide, 147 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: Archibald takes visitors through the museum and it is an experience. 148 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: I went on a replica ship, drank actual tea paintings, 149 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: came to life and yelled at me. 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 7: The Supreme comes to. 151 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: That part was a little Harry Potter ask on the tour. 152 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: I was watching out for how the museum tells the 153 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: native part of the Boston Tea Party, and it was there. 154 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: Sure in the museum. There's a cartoon on the wall 155 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: and a book and a glass case near the entrance. 156 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: There's actually a big sign about it. Museum staff pointed 157 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: it out to us. 158 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 5: We wanted to make sure that this message was communicated 159 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 5: to all of our guests. 160 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 6: I can also imagine though, kind of walking past. 161 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 5: It, you can yep, yeap people aren o'blivia sometimes, you know. 162 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: My sense was that unless you were really looking, the 163 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: native part was easy to mess Would you mind saying 164 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: your name where you're from? 165 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 8: So your my name is Jenny, I'm from Dublin in Irelands. 166 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to test my hypothesis, and so as people 167 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: left the museum, I stopped them outside. 168 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 6: This is gonna sound like the weirdest question you've ever 169 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 6: been asked. But from going through the museum, did you pick. 170 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: Up on, like what the rioters were wearing when they 171 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: stormed the ships? 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 8: I think I have a picture my head. 173 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 6: What's a picture in your head? 174 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 8: I don't know, like leather boots and sort of like 175 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 8: loose pants like britshes and maybe loose shirts. Maybe I'm 176 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 8: confusing with Shakespeare, but you know, like waistcoats and hats. 177 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 8: Mel Gibson and The Patriot is kind of my reference here. 178 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 6: So as the actual Boston tea party, they dressed up 179 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 6: like native people. 180 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 8: Oh oh, I don't know that at all. It's really interesting. 181 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: I talked to about a dozen people as they left 182 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: the museum, I homeschooled kids, tourists from Germany and Florida, 183 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: and none of them picked up on the fact that 184 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: the rioters were wearing Indian costumes. No, but I find 185 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: it fascinating why in the world would eighteenth century colonial 186 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: riders dress up like Indians? To try and understand why 187 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: the heck colonists dressed up like native people to throw 188 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: tea in the Boston Harbor, I met up with a 189 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: historian from Harvard. This is Phil Delora. He is a 190 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: descendant of the Standing Rock and Yankton Sioux tribes. 191 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 6: Where are we standing, Phil? 192 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 7: We're in front of the Boston Tea Party Ships and Museum. 193 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 7: The fifes in the drum music is playing. 194 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: What's fife? 195 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 7: Oh, it's a little flute. 196 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 6: What's that building called? 197 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 7: That's called the Old atm Classic American tourist infrastructure. 198 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: Phil wanted in on the fund and so we boarded 199 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: a ship it's part of the museum and docked in 200 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: the real Boston Harbor. 201 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 4: I love this stuff. It's super cool, right. 202 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 7: It's full of ropes and riggings, and it's surprisingly small 203 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 7: for a ship that's going to be sailing on the 204 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 7: open ocean. 205 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 4: I mean to me, I would be scared to be 206 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 4: on this ship. 207 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 7: Frankly, Can I throw a box of tea over fantastic? 208 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 7: Standing here holding this this creative tea or a replica 209 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 7: of a creative tea? 210 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 4: Here we go. 211 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 7: Listen for the splash. All right? 212 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 4: I feel very American right now. 213 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 6: If you can put yourself in the shoes of you know, 214 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 6: a young lad who's throwing the tea overboard. What do 215 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 6: you think is going through his mind? 216 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 7: Oh? I think he's having so much fun. It's dark, 217 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 7: you're in disguise, you're with your friends. The ways that 218 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 7: like when we jump outside of civil order, you know, 219 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 7: it can be incredibly liberating. 220 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: Bill wrote about all this for a book called Plain Indian. 221 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: In it, he says that the American tradition of white 222 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: people dressing up like Indians, it starts with the Boston 223 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: tea party. 224 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 7: They were wearing something that they thought of as Indian costume, 225 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 7: more or less right. 226 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 4: But what does that mean? 227 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,239 Speaker 7: You know, some lamp black on their faces. 228 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: Which is basically sut to darken their skin. 229 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 7: Maybe a feather or two, some blankets, blankets, even at 230 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 7: this moment associated with Native people, they actually attached a 231 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 7: tribal name to this. They call themselves Mohawks. 232 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: The way this story gets told a lot is that 233 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: the Rioters dressed up like mohawks for disguise, the way 234 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: a burglar would wear a mask. After all, they were 235 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: committing a crime. Phil and other historians think that's wrong. 236 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 7: It's pretty clear that if you knew Boston street politics, 237 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 7: the identities of most of these people are not really secret. 238 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: Phil says, the Rioters weren't wearing a disguise. They were 239 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: wearing a costume. 240 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 7: You know, Boston is Boston, the tea is the tea, 241 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 7: and to sort of call it a party, the costumes 242 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 7: make that possible. 243 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: That's what's strange about the Boston Tea Party. I mean 244 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: it's part protest, part riot, but large part party. To 245 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: understand why eighteen century rioters would want to wear a costume, 246 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: Phil says, we have to go back to medieval Europe 247 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: and to this thing called misrule. 248 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 7: Misrule itself is about inverting the social order. So you 249 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 7: can go to old church festivals and find the bishop 250 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 7: suddenly becomes mounted backwards on a donkey and drag through 251 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 7: the church. Horrendous, right, you know, sacrilege. 252 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: At this time for peasants, laws are really harsh. For 253 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: poaching a deer from the king's forests, the punishment was death, 254 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: so they'd find ways to push back, like ganging up 255 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: on a sheriff. 256 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 7: Sometimes you can think of these as little baby riots, right, 257 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 7: little baby riots that have a kind of a traditional 258 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 7: folk character to them. 259 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: To add fun to their civil disobedience, they'd wear a 260 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: costume while they did it. 261 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 7: You know, when they were exercising these rituals and misrule, 262 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 7: they would men would put on women's dresses. 263 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: Banging pots and pans in the street, riding someone out 264 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: on a rail, even tarring and feathering. All these things 265 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: go back to medieval Europe. 266 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 4: And they make their way to the New World. 267 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: So by the time we get to the Boston tea party, 268 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: having a little baby riot to protest the King's unjust 269 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: tax is not new. Even putting on a costume for 270 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: your baby riot is not new. What changes is the costume, 271 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: Phil says. Colonists decide we. 272 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 7: Don't want to dress up like women, you know, in 273 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 7: the way that they used to do it back in 274 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 7: the old country. But we need to dress up. We 275 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 7: want to do something. And here's this Indian costume, and 276 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 7: it does all the right stuff. 277 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: And that costume of the Indian it starts to mean 278 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: something to the colonists, and that meaning is connected to 279 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: the land. You have to remember in England it's illegal 280 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: to hunt in the King's forest, it's illegal to collect wood. 281 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 7: To suddenly landing in New England finding that yes I 282 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 7: can go out and hunt deer. If I want to 283 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 7: have a big fire and stay warm, I can do that. 284 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: So North America, in this very practical material way comes 285 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: a land of freedom and opportunity. 286 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 7: And Indian people Native people end up I think being 287 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 7: kind of exemplars of that. It's like, well, what's the 288 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 7: symbol of this freedom right that we're claiming for ourselves. 289 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 7: It's those Native people. 290 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: Were Native people seen as more free than Europeans at 291 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: the time. 292 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 7: Yes, if we're in purit to New England, this is 293 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 7: not a particularly free kind of society. So there's a 294 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 7: lot of condemnation. You have to wear a scarlet a 295 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 7: if you're an adult, right, I mean, so if you're 296 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 7: looking out at Native people, you might actually be envious, 297 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 7: you might actually be desirous of that kind of status. 298 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: So freedom this thing that is the cornerstone of American identity. 299 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: When early Americans were trying to figure that freedom out, 300 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: Indians represented it. And it wasn't just in costumes. The 301 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: founding generation put the figure of a native person in paintings, 302 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: on political pamphlets, the figureheads of ships on guns. Eighteenth 303 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: century white dudes had weird societies where they gave themselves 304 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Indian names and performed made up rituals. They were obsessed 305 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: and one of the places this Indian symbol shows up 306 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: is political cartoons Phil brought want to show me. 307 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 7: It's called the Female Combatants. 308 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: In the cartoon, England is represented by the figure of 309 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: a white woman. She's wearing this long flowing robe. 310 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 7: The very ornate sort of hair style, and she's like 311 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 7: literally holding out her fists as if she's boxing. 312 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: Who is she boxing, of course, but the colonies in 313 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: North America, and in the cartoon, the colonies are represented 314 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: by a native woman. 315 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 7: There are feathers coming out of her hair. There's a 316 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 7: kind of breechcloth thing no top, so her breasts are exposed, 317 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 7: and she's reaching out to punch Britannia in the face, right, 318 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 7: and Britannia is saying, I'll force you to obedience, you 319 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 7: rebellious slut. 320 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: Does the native woman in the picture does she represent 321 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: Native people or does she represent white people? 322 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 7: She absolutely is not representing Native people. She's absolutely representing 323 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 7: American colonists who are rebellious. 324 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: Okay, So in this cartoon, they're not Indigenous people, have 325 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: nothing to do with the political struggle. It's just a 326 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: stand in for the white colonists exactly. 327 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 7: It's a symbol. 328 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of weird. 329 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 4: It's very weird. 330 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 7: It's very weird. 331 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: At the time of the Revolution, colonists needed a national 332 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: identity and they were in an awkward place. They were 333 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: not English anymore, but they're not American yet. Phil says plain, 334 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: Indian is the bridge that gets them to American. 335 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 7: Looking at England, you are rebelling literally against the monarch. 336 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 7: And what do you say, I'm not that, I'm not 337 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 7: that dominating kind of thing. No, no, no, I'm back over here. 338 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 7: I'm Aboriginal. I'm of this land, this land of freedom 339 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 7: and liberty and abundance. I've been made a new person. 340 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: Those lofty Enlightenment ideals we all know from the Declaration 341 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of Independence. They're great and all, but revolutions and regular 342 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: people need symbols. They need something tangible that represents those 343 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: big ideas. And for the founding generation, that symbol was Indians. 344 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: Do the colonists need to take on native identity to 345 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: become American? 346 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 7: They do, but they can't fully take it on right 347 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 7: because they also are repulsed by it. 348 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 9: Right. 349 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 7: And I think it's this sort of dynamic of sort 350 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 7: of desire for something about being native or Aboriginal to 351 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 7: this place and repulsion right of thinking these are savages. 352 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 4: We want to have nothing to do with them. 353 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: And so the way early Americans played Indian had this 354 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: big contradiction baked into it. They despised actual Native people. 355 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: We were the merciless Indian savages of the Declaration of Independence, 356 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: Indians of their imagination. They loved those Indians. Those Indians 357 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: had all this freedom and all this land the colonists 358 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: wanted for themselves. After Phil and I both took the 359 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: tour of the Boston Tea Party Ships and Museum, I 360 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: told him what I thought. 361 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 6: To me, the museum feels like this metaphor of how 362 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 6: Native history has talked about, where it's kind of hiding 363 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 6: in plane site, like you know what to look for, 364 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 6: you can find it, but also if you're not looking 365 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 6: for it, it's really easy to miss. 366 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 367 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 7: I think hiding in plain site's a good way to 368 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 7: think about it. 369 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: I asked the museum's creative manager, Evan O'Brien, what he 370 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: thinks about all this. Why don't they emphasize the mohawk 371 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: costume part more? 372 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 8: Yeah? 373 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 5: Sure, So in all regards we want to balance, well, 374 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 5: actually we want to strive for balance and both areas. 375 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 5: We want to be as authentic as possible and The 376 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 5: complexity with the Tea Party is in order to be 377 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 5: fully authentic, you cannot ignore the indigenous disguises that we're involved. 378 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 5: You simply can't. However, we also want to be sensitive 379 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 5: and not make any offense. History is complex. We can 380 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 5: learn from it, but we also don't want to repeat 381 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 5: the same mistakes. 382 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: And so do you guys think it would be racist 383 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: basically to have white folks today dress up like natives 384 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: in your programming? 385 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we don't allow that. We don't do 386 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 5: that in any capacity. 387 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: Evan has seen volunteers show up to their reenactments dressed 388 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: in native costume. 389 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 5: When we first did it in twenty twelve, there were 390 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 5: a few gentlemen that showed up with fringe and all 391 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 5: kinds of stuff, and we had to say, gentlemen, we'd 392 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 5: love to have you involved, but you can't wear that. 393 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: I understand why you don't want to just be like, 394 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: all right, everybody dress up, you know, but do you 395 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: think there's any risk then that folks who are coming 396 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: through the experience sort of missed that fact. For me, 397 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: learning about this time period, what's so clear is that 398 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: like colonists knew about Native people, they were talking about 399 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: Native people. We were omnipresent in their lives, but in 400 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: the way that contemporary Americans tell that story, were absent. 401 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: And so for me, it's like there's another layer of 402 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: the conflict, which is, how how do we make sure 403 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: that the Native part of the story isn't. 404 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 5: Miss Yeah, that's absolutely fair. And what's difficult about these 405 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 5: sorts of stuff, especially in society today, is we tend 406 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 5: to fixate on the stuff that stir up the most 407 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 5: emotional reaction, right the stuff that's dividing us and making 408 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 5: people angry with each other, and don't want to water 409 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 5: down the content and the history. But what we also 410 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 5: don't want to do is make those sorts of things 411 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 5: the focal point. 412 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: I really sympathize with Evan. I think he's kind of 413 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: stuck between a rock and a hard place. And I 414 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: don't think the museum is the only one that doesn't 415 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: know how to talk about this history. But that history 416 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: that we don't know how to talk about it explains 417 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: so much of what is happening today. The QAnon Shaman 418 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: and the rest of the mob on January sixth, their 419 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: version of America and what it stands for is unrecognizable 420 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: to many of us. But you know who I think 421 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: would recognize it. Those early Americans who also dressed up 422 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: like Indians to riot, who also took matters into their 423 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: own hands, who also wanted a version of freedom that 424 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: was rooted in their imaginations, not in reality. What that 425 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: means for our country today. After the break in my twenties, 426 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: I lived in Baltimore and I was often the only 427 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: Native person in the room. I felt this responsibility to 428 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: advocate for Native people, but at the same time I 429 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: would feel like I wasn't native enough, or not native 430 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: in the right way. I'm mixed, I look white. That 431 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: comes with a lot of privilege, and also I'm Native 432 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: because I'm a citizen of my tribe. But for a 433 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: lot of non native people, that wasn't enough. Once there 434 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: was a group email where colleagues debated whether or not 435 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: I was Native based on my physical appearance. I wish 436 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: I hadn't internalized all that, but part of me did. 437 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: I was young and still figuring out who I was, 438 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: And then I would see those same people drawn to 439 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: this cartoon version of being Native, like they would burn 440 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: sage to kill bad vibes, or have a dream catcher 441 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: hanging from the rear view mirror. Baltimore was close enough 442 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: to DC that I was surrounded by merchandise for the 443 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: Washington Arskins. I'm not going to say the slur. I 444 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: remember one time a colleague gave me a ride home. 445 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: This was someone who I respected a lot. I got 446 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: in her car and looked down the floor mats were 447 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: the Arskins logo, where I was supposed to place my 448 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: dirty shoes was on a cartoon of a Native person's face. 449 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: I didn't say anything. I just felt really alone. But 450 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: I started to wonder if those two things were related. 451 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: How people loved the cartoon version of natives but not me. 452 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: I asked Phil Dolori about this back in Boston, and Phil, 453 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: being a professor, answered me with a story. This story 454 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: starts in the early nineteen hundreds, but it explains this 455 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: fascination Americans have with Native characters today. Back then, the 456 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: adults were worried about the youth. 457 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 7: They were so worried that urbanization and modern technology was 458 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 7: just taking American youth and making them feminine and non masculine. 459 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 7: There's a crisis around adolescence, which is a term that 460 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 7: gets invented around this moment. This guy g Stanley Hall says, 461 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 7: you know, look, the course of development of the individual 462 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 7: human being echoes the course of social development of societies 463 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 7: and civilizations, and so the child has to pass through 464 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 7: the savage state before they move on to something a 465 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 7: little more civilized. 466 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: And so people created summer camps where white kids could 467 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: spend time pretending to be native. 468 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 7: The idea is, get all of these kids out of 469 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,959 Speaker 7: the city, get them into the woods, teaching them how 470 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 7: to shoot a bow and arrow, how to paddle a canoe. 471 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: What kinds of names would the kids go by. 472 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 7: Flying cloud, rolling hawk, and you know, things like that. 473 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: And at camp, what would the kids be wearing? 474 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 4: You know, we can just sort of look at this. 475 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: Fill pulled out a photo from his book. 476 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 7: Well, here's one where they're you know, they're in blankets, 477 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 7: they're holding arrows, they've got buffalo horn headdresses, a lot 478 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 7: of feathers. Here's a kid with a drum, a lot 479 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 7: of blankets, a lot of like no shirts. 480 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: Early Americans played Indian as a way to say we're 481 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: not British, we're American. One hundred years later, Americans know 482 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: they're not British, but they're still plain Indian. Why what 483 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: is it that they're looking for. 484 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 7: I think they're looking for a kind of authenticity right 485 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 7: in the face of the modern So it's like we've 486 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 7: become a more secular society, but Indians have the spirituality 487 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 7: thing going, like they're in touch with the universe. 488 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 4: Right, we have to live. 489 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 7: In cities, but they got to live out in the 490 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 7: in the woods, in the wild. 491 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 4: You know. 492 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 7: So at every turn, at every step, Indians represent this 493 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 7: new authentic way of being. 494 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: And so Americans are still searching for who they are 495 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: when they play Indian, but now it fills a different void. 496 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: It's a void created by an industrialized, modern, alienating world. 497 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: You can see it in the fringe buckskin and featherhead bands, 498 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: hippies war, and the weird sweat lodge ceremonies New Agers performed, 499 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: even in the back to Nature Make America Healthy Again 500 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: ramblings of the QAnon Shaman. At pretty much the same 501 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: time summer camps became a thing, there was this other 502 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: American tradition taking shape. Sports mascots. 503 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 7: You know, early twentieth century is when mascots in general 504 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 7: start showing up in sports, and you know, and so 505 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 7: you do get these Indian mascots kind of right from 506 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 7: the very beginning. 507 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: Phil says, mascots and the whole summer camp thing, they're related. 508 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 7: The mayor of Kansas City at one point was also 509 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 7: very big into the Boy Scouts. 510 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: As a Boy Scout leader, this mayor liked to dress 511 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: up like an Indian, and he kept dressing up even 512 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: after he became mayor, which earned him the nickname chief. 513 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 7: Chief in that sense might mean like the mayor, the boss, whatever, right, 514 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 7: but also means like Indian chief. And before you know it, right, 515 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 7: all of a sudden, you've got the Chiefs. 516 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: So the mascot is paying homage to a white man 517 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: who liked to dress up like an Indian. 518 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 4: I think you could say it that way. 519 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: Yes, that's wild, And that's how the Kansas City Chiefs 520 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: got their name. It's been over one hundred years since 521 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: cartoon natives started showing up in sports, and I wanted 522 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: to know what the deal is, Why are people still 523 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: so into them? So after leaving Boston, I got on 524 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: a plane and I went to a football game in 525 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: Kansas City. I found a stadium full of Chiefs fans 526 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: singing the Tamahawk chop. I'm gonna warn you it was 527 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: a lot. 528 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 6: So the thing that we're asking people today is about 529 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 6: the Tamahawk chop. 530 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: How do you guys feel about the chop? 531 00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 3: Love it? 532 00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: Love it? 533 00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 9: Love it. 534 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: I heard people sing the chop as they walked up 535 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: the long Stadium ramp to find their seats. People sing 536 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: it in the parking lot. You know, most of the 537 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: Native songs I've heard, they have words. It's weird to 538 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: hear this impression of our music that doesn't even have 539 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: a consonant. I talk to fans who put the chiefs 540 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: logo in places you might not expect, lest anyone doubt 541 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: our fandom. 542 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 7: That's my actual wedding ring. 543 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: Can you just describe what it looks like. 544 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 3: It's got a ruby background with the Chief's arrowhead logo in. 545 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 8: The middle of it. 546 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: I even went to a tailgate party that was also 547 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: a memorial. 548 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: So we're here for our buddies tailgate to celebrate his dad. 549 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 5: We just every year. 550 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 7: This is the third or fourth year we've done this tailgate. 551 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: People told me the team name honors Native Americans. 552 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 9: I think it's just like the fighting spirit of like 553 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 9: the Native Americans, you know, that never back down mentality. 554 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 9: I mean, like from the male perspective. That's probably the 555 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 9: cooler part. 556 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: I got the sense that the game, the stadium, the colors, 557 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: even the chop isn't just about football. It's deeper than that. 558 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: Fans use this one word to describe it. 559 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 8: It's tradition. 560 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 9: Everything's so tradition based. 561 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 10: Just always thought of it as like a tradition of 562 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 10: the game and a tradition of the chiefs. 563 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: What I heard people say is that it's part of 564 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: who they are. Would you guys be mad if the 565 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: name changed? 566 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I wouldn't want it to change. 567 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 5: I would want it to change. 568 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: Why not? 569 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 6: I mean it would still be football, Like if they 570 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 6: were you know, the Kansas City Woods or something like that, 571 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 6: would still be the same team. 572 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 9: It's just history. 573 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: It's its own culture, and there's hundreds of thousands of 574 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: fans as. 575 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 5: A part of a nation. 576 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 10: Are you upset about the use of the Toma chop 577 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 10: and arrowhead and chief or you're upset about that? 578 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 6: You know, there's been some like research where they look 579 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 6: at the effect of Native mascots kids and they have 580 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 6: found that exposure to Native mascots actually lowers those kids 581 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 6: self esteem and sense of pride in being Native. 582 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 10: So I'm not disgra I'm like not discounting the research. 583 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 10: But we need to like help them and educate them. 584 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 10: So let's not try to like make your childhood bad 585 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 10: because you see this happening in sports, Like you have 586 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 10: to help them through that and. 587 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 9: Your culture, you know, and have your kids engage in 588 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 9: what your culture is. 589 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: It sounds like. 590 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 6: What you're saying is that it's like kind of on 591 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 6: Native kids and Native communities and parents to correct whatever 592 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 6: negative impact mascots might have on them. 593 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 10: I'm an Italian American. There's a lot of we're all 594 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 10: in the mafia. We all love pasta, we have greasy hair, 595 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 10: or you just gotta expect that, and I do love pasta. 596 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 5: All right, I'm gonna go watch some football. 597 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 7: Thank you, guys. 598 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: That same researcher who found native mascots hurt Native heads, 599 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: she and a colleague also looked at white students and 600 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: it had the opposite effect on them. Seeing a racist 601 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: mascot gave white people a boost and self esteem. I 602 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: talked to Phil Doloria about this. 603 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 4: Look. 604 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 7: This whole mascot practice is super bad for Native kids. 605 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 7: When Native kids see the powerlessness of their parents and 606 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 7: their elders and their leaders to stop this thing. They 607 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 7: feel an incredible lack of efficacy for being Native that 608 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 7: seeps into the blood and the bones of Native kids, 609 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 7: that does this kind of damage. This isn't just a 610 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 7: trivial thing. 611 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: When I was at the football game, I heard over 612 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: and over that mascots honor Native Americans. But when I 613 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: confronted fans with the harm mascots do to living, breathing 614 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: Native kids, they didn't want to hear it. It reminded 615 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: me of how I felt back in Baltimore. 616 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 6: I think what. 617 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: Feels really frustrating for me as a Native person is 618 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: that at the same time that like we're everywhere, right, like, 619 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're mascots, were you know, like a wooden 620 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: figure outside of the gas station were also nowhere, And 621 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: just like how often I feel really invisible in the 622 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: United States. Do you think that those things are connected. 623 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 7: They're just two sides of the same coin, right, I mean, 624 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 7: Indians are everywhere because settlers have to imagine Indian nests 625 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 7: and appropriate for themselves and sort of take it and 626 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 7: like always playing with it. At the same time, every 627 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 7: time that there's a real, actual red blooded Native person 628 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 7: standing there in front of them. It is a reminder, 629 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 7: right that all of this land was once native land. 630 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: That dynamic of white people liking the Indian that exists 631 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: in their imagination but not actual Native people. It's still 632 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: around today, and the Indian of white people's imaginations, that 633 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: Indian only lives the past. 634 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 7: That Indian is the pure Indian, the authentic Indian, the 635 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 7: Indian of desire, And if you could just get access 636 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 7: to that Indian who you've been trying to destroy for 637 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 7: the longest time, then you could learn something. 638 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. 639 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: I get asked pretty offensive question by non native people 640 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: a lot. They'll ask me like if I grew up 641 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: on a reservation, what my blood quantum is. It's this 642 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: weird thing where people who don't actually know what any 643 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: of that means are trying to like measure if I'm 644 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: authentically native enough. And the same click for me while 645 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: I was reading your book, that what they're testing me 646 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: against is the sort of imagined Native person that actually 647 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: doesn't exist. 648 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really interesting, right because at this moment, right, 649 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 7: the framing of that Indian that we're going to desire 650 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 7: is an archaic, ancient, timeless person who can't exist within 651 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 7: history at all right, because who are the name to 652 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 7: people who are the most important shakers and shapers of stuff. 653 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 7: They're traveling the world, they're global citizens. They're all wearing suits. 654 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 7: They're buying cars and refrigerators and sewing machines. Right, they 655 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 7: are people living in history. 656 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: I'm forty now. Most of this stuff hurts less than 657 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: it did when I was younger, But it still felt 658 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: really good to have an elder validate my experience to 659 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: say it's them, not you. Phil says that weird dynamic 660 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: of liking cartoon natives more than real ones goes back 661 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: to this thing called settler colonialism. 662 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 7: This is the difference between sort of regular colonialism and 663 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 7: that thing we call settler colonialism. You know, regular colonialism 664 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 7: is kind of a binary thing. Right, You're gonna send 665 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 7: me to India. Oh, I'm going to stay British. There's 666 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 7: no way that I'm going to become India Indian. 667 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 4: Right, I'm gonna stay British. What do I want to do. 668 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 7: I'm gonna send my kids home to Eton and to 669 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 7: Cambridge and Oxford. 670 00:36:58,640 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 4: What do I want to do. 671 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 7: I'm gonna get the hell out of here and go 672 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 7: home and retire to Northumbria, you know, and have a 673 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 7: little estate. 674 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 4: Am I going to stay here? No? 675 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 7: Am I going to embrace these people? 676 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 4: Absolutely not. 677 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 7: I just want to extract their labor, all right, and 678 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 7: their resources. That's like classic colonialism, But the settler colonial 679 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 7: kind of. 680 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 4: Structure is a different position. 681 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 7: They're not going to go back home to the mother country, right, 682 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 7: because settlers come to stay. 683 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 4: That means they. 684 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 7: Care more about land than about labor, and they find 685 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 7: ways to take and appropriate the identities of the indigenous 686 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 7: people who are there. 687 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: Sellar Colonialism is complicated, of course, it spans continents and centuries, 688 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: but phil says the easiest way to understand it is this. 689 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: You want to build a new country on a piece 690 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,479 Speaker 1: of land, but you have a problem. People already live there. 691 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: So you come up with all these ways to get 692 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: rid of the people living on the land you want. 693 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: And as you're pushing people out, you need to claim 694 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: that you belong. How do you do that You take 695 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: on the identity of the people you pushed out. 696 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 7: The dilemma of the settler right is always to be 697 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 7: on the edge of feeling bad about yourself. 698 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 4: Right. 699 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 7: The United States is founded on a certain premise that 700 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 7: we can hear in the Declaration of Independence all men 701 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 7: are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator 702 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 7: with certain inalienable right. So if you take that as 703 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 7: the vision document, is the foundational document, right, you have 704 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 7: embedded within yourself right something that must necessarily speak to 705 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 7: other people who you have not treated in those particular 706 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 7: kinds of ways. Right. 707 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 4: And that is an inescapable kind of conundrum. 708 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: And that inescapable conundrum. It left us in an awkward place. 709 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: We're not unlike early Americans, Americans today are struggling with 710 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: who we are. 711 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 7: Americas are always uncertain about their identity, which means they 712 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 7: over and excessively overperform right their claims to identity. I 713 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 7: think the sort of inclination to do you performative americanness 714 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 7: which always feels overwrought and overstrained. You know, the renaming 715 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 7: of French Fries freedom Fries. I mean that kind of 716 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 7: thing that we do all the time. You know, a 717 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 7: confident country doesn't do that. France doesn't do that because. 718 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 4: The French know who they are. 719 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 7: We can see this in this moment right now around 720 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 7: certain forms of white nationalism, right, which are claiming a 721 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 7: certain set of things, but which have an air of 722 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 7: desperation about them because of the uncertainty of what it 723 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 7: actually means. What is American identity. I think part of 724 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 7: my sense of it is American identity is unfixed, unfinished. 725 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: When I learned how early Americans built a national identity, 726 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: it kind of reminded me of January sixth, and actually 727 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,479 Speaker 1: it helped me understand it in a new way. I mean, 728 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: some of the parallels are obvious, dressing up like Indians 729 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: to riot, but I found something deeper than that, something 730 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: so deep in the character of America. It's below the surface, 731 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: almost subconscious. At first, for me, what I didn't understand 732 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: about January sixth was how the rioters could claim they 733 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 1: were defending American democracy while also tearing it down. They 734 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: denied the results of a democratic election. They stormed the 735 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: Capitol building. Once inside, they broke stuff. I mean, they 736 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: basically went to the seat of our government and trashed it. 737 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: But after I learned all this history, I realized our 738 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: founding fathers did the same thing. Our founders built a 739 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: national identity on playing Indian at the same time our 740 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: government was rounding up and killing actual Native people. We 741 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: built our national identity on the thing we were trying 742 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: to destroy. It's the type of thing a serial killer 743 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: would do in a horror movie, kill someone, move into 744 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: their house, and then pretend to be them. Today it 745 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,760 Speaker 1: feels like we're experiencing these big ruptures in our national 746 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,919 Speaker 1: identity and what it means to be American, Like it's 747 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: falling apart or breaking in two. And I think there's 748 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: this natural impulse to try and find where things got 749 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: off track. But it's always been this way. Just imagine 750 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: someone did kill a family, move into their house, pretend 751 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: to be them. Wouldn't you expect that person to lose 752 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: their mind to one day's snap. Of course, American identity 753 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: is broken. We all live in that house. What happens 754 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: when you put Native people back into the founding story 755 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: of America? In terms of the fight in the US 756 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: over are we a democracy? It's even a harder question. 757 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, do I have a position on it? 758 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,919 Speaker 1: Next time on First America. If you like what you're hearing, 759 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: please leave a review. It's one of the best ways 760 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: to help listeners find this show. You can also support 761 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: First America by subscribing or sharing episodes with your friends. 762 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: First America was made possible by the generous support of 763 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: the Henry Loose Foundation in the NYU Yale American Indian 764 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: Sovereignty Project. Additional support came from Indian Collective, First Nations 765 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: Development Institute, Jajavio Tom of San Manuel Nation, Borealist Philanthropy, 766 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: and Black Liberation Indigenous Sovereignty Collective. Our fiscal sponsor is 767 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: Red Media. I dream this project into the world in 768 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: collaboration with an amazing group of Indigenous scholars, including Maggie 769 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: Blackhawk Fond de lac Ojibwe Ned Blackhawk, citizen of the 770 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: tm Ok Tribe of Western Shoshone, Phil Deloria, descendant of 771 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: the Standing Rock and Yankton Sioux tribes, and Nick Estes, 772 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: citizen of the Lower burl Suit Tribe. I Rebecca Nagel, 773 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: citizen of Cherokee Nation, also reported, wrote, hosted, and executive produced. 774 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: The show First America is produced by Critical Frequency and 775 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,439 Speaker 1: distributed by Pushkin Industries. Our managing producer is Amy Westerveldt. 776 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: Senior producer and sound designer is Brendan Baker. Our story 777 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: editor is Audrey Quinn. Jules Bradley, Kim Nettervi Petersa and 778 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: Jordan gas Pore are our producers. Our editorial consultant is 779 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: Connie Walker, citizen of the Okinese First Nation. Fact checking 780 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: by Naomi bar Our partnership's director is Lindsay Crowder. Our 781 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: development consultant is Jenny Lawton. Our theme song is by 782 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: Raven Chikan who is Dinney. Scoring by Laura Ortman, citizen 783 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: of the White Mountain Apache Tribe and Raven Chikon artwork 784 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: by Kelly Gonzalez, citizen of Cherokee Nation. The team at 785 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: Pushkin is Greta Cone CEO, Eric Sandler, Chief Strategy Officer, 786 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: Grace Ross VP of Business Development, Morgan Rattner, Director of Marketing, 787 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: Owen Miller, Content Delivery Associate, Keira Posey Creative Partnerships Manager, 788 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan Social Media Manager, Brian Strabinick Senior Analytics Manager, 789 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: and Jake Flanagan Production Council