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Speaker 1: New episodes of Monster BTK are released every Monday and

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Speaker 1: brought to you absolutely free. But if you want to

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Speaker 1: hear the whole season right now, it's available ad free

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Speaker 1: on iHeart True Crime Plus. For more information, check out

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Monster BTK, a production of iHeart Podcasts

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Speaker 2: and Tenderfoot TV. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: On June thirteenth, two thousand and four, a man was

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Speaker 3: walking to work in a secluded part of Whichital. As

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Speaker 3: he reached the intersection of First in Kansas, he noticed

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Speaker 3: something odd, a plastic bag taped to the back of

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Speaker 3: a stop sign. He opened it and found a letter

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Speaker 3: inside with a label that read BTK Field Ground. It

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Speaker 3: was a three page story written by BTK in the

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Speaker 3: third person. Here is what it said.

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Speaker 1: If a person happens to be out on one of

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Speaker 1: these cold mornings in a certain part of Wichitah, that

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Speaker 1: is the northeast part, on a particular morning in January,

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Speaker 1: he might have noticed a man park his car in

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Speaker 1: a store parking lot, pause briefly, then walk across the

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Speaker 1: street and disappear among the houses and commercial buildings. If

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Speaker 1: they had followed him, they would have noticed his head

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Speaker 1: bent load the ground and wearing a heavy parka. If

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Speaker 1: they would have looked closer, they would notice his eyes

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Speaker 1: dark back and forth across the street, checking the house

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Speaker 1: windows and door. As he nears a house on the corner,

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Speaker 1: he quickly glanced around and jumped the wooded fence surrounding

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Speaker 1: the house. He knew the family left the house at

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Speaker 1: approximately eight forty five and would walk out to the

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Speaker 1: car and leave for school, and in approximately seven minutes

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Speaker 1: the lady Judy would return home. He had earlier in

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Speaker 1: the week seen them leave for school. One day, he

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Speaker 1: thought to himself, say, this may be it a perfect setup.

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Speaker 1: A house on the corner, a garage set off from

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Speaker 1: the house, a fenced yard, a large space from the

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Speaker 1: nearby neighbor's house, especially the back door. It was a

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Speaker 1: few days later that he stopped across the street and

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Speaker 1: followed the family car to see where they went. That morning,

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Speaker 1: she took the kids to school each and returned. A

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Speaker 1: perfect setup. It was close to his fantasy of a

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Speaker 1: victim all to himself, a person he could tie up, torture,

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Speaker 1: and maybe.

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Speaker 4: Kill, killed four members of a family.

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Speaker 5: Had you vanished from her home, suddenly last weekend, her

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Speaker 5: phone lines had been cut, her door left open.

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Speaker 4: You see the victim playing there with plastic bags over

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Speaker 4: their heads, strangled.

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Speaker 6: You could tell it was a plan scenario.

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Speaker 5: Well, police have said no more about the contents of

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Speaker 5: the letter. It does contain some sort of threat and

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Speaker 5: implies the killer may strike again.

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Speaker 1: He's going to play with these victims.

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Speaker 2: He'd get him to the point of death and then

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Speaker 2: bring them.

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Speaker 4: Back and then brings them back to the point of death.

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Speaker 3: From My Heart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Susan Peters

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Speaker 3: and this is Monster BTK. It was June of two

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Speaker 3: thousand and four and BTK was back. Starting in March

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Speaker 3: of that year, BTK had begun to send letters to

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Speaker 3: news outlets and police with haunting and threatening messages. At

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Speaker 3: KKE TV, this was a massive by far the biggest

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Speaker 3: story since btk's first murders in the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 7: And Good Evening we have exclusive details a new communication

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Speaker 7: that could be from the serial killer BTK. On June thirteenth,

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Speaker 7: Whichita police recovered the letter which you heard about at

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Speaker 7: the top of the episode. It was discovered by a

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Speaker 7: man who was walking to work taped to the back

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Speaker 7: of a stop sign. It was btk's third correspondent since

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Speaker 7: his return and his longest letter to date. Previous letters

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Speaker 7: had been short, vague packages sent to local news outlets,

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Speaker 7: but this was different.

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Speaker 3: It was a lengthy and detailed recounting of his first murder,

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy four killing of the Otero family. He

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Speaker 3: gave a detailed, first hand account of the event from

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Speaker 3: thirty years earlier.

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Speaker 1: About twenty minutes before nine, the door unlocked and the

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Speaker 1: boy stepped outside. In just a flash, he ordered him

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Speaker 1: back inside, confronting the family, armed with a pistol and knife,

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Speaker 1: he told them that this was a stick up and

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Speaker 1: not to be alarmed.

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Speaker 3: This letter was handed over to Wichita PD. Police detective

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Speaker 3: Kenny Landwaer quickly noticed that the letter was actually a photocopy,

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Speaker 3: most likely of a journal entry about the murder written

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Speaker 3: by BTK right after the killing in nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 1: The family was preparing to leave. The kids were packing

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Speaker 1: their lunches and they had to gather their coats by

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Speaker 1: the table. The mother, Judy, asked what was going on

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Speaker 1: and said they had no money or anything of value.

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Speaker 1: The boy was by his folk's side looking scared, and

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Speaker 1: the girl Josephine was beginning to cry. All of them

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Speaker 1: gathered in the hall. He told them their orders. He

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Speaker 1: was wanted and needed the car money in food. Joe

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Speaker 1: noticed his gun hand shake and told the family to

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Speaker 1: settle down and all would be okay.

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Speaker 3: The letter also included a graphic hand drawing titled the

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Speaker 3: sexual Thrill is My Bill. It depicted a naked and

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Speaker 3: tied up woman hanging by the neck from a rope.

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Speaker 3: Why this letter, why recount the Otero story once again?

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Speaker 3: And why did he leave it in a remote location?

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Speaker 3: Raider would answer some of these questions years later in

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Speaker 3: the book Confession of a Serial Killer.

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Speaker 1: I left the package at first in Kansas. This symbolic

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Speaker 1: meaning was important to me. We live in a symbolic world.

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Speaker 1: I didn't pick the spot just because it was handy.

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Speaker 1: There was a purpose. The stop sign was stop and

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Speaker 1: look people of Kansas. The poll was the male symbol.

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Speaker 1: I picked the number three type date attached the package

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Speaker 1: on June twelfth. The package was wrapped in plastic and

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Speaker 1: duct tape, a symbol of bondage and staple items in

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Speaker 1: a BTK hit kit. By posting it here, I figured

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Speaker 1: an amateur would handle it before the police that would

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Speaker 1: destroy key evidence.

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Speaker 3: As we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, BTK

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Speaker 3: labeled the letter as a quote field gram. Raider would

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Speaker 3: later explain what this meant.

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Speaker 1: The BTK field gram is like a telegram. It short

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Speaker 1: has important news coding from Morse code in the cat

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Speaker 1: and Mouse game. I envisioned the chapter of the first

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Speaker 1: BTK hit, chapter one, being the oteros.

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Speaker 3: So this was chapter one of the BTK autobiography that

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Speaker 3: he had promised in a previous letter. If you remember

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Speaker 3: from the last episode, one of btk's earlier packages included

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Speaker 3: an outline for a thirteen chapter book about his deeds.

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Speaker 3: Rader intended to share each chapter of his story one

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Speaker 3: at a time, and this was just the beginning. Rader

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Speaker 3: wanted to keep the momentum going, and so the pace

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Speaker 3: of his letter started to pick up. The next one

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Speaker 3: came only a month later. This time it was found

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Speaker 3: somewhere that no one expected to find it.

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Speaker 5: This is the strongest warning yet police have issued for

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Speaker 5: widgetans to watch out and take extra precautions. After a

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Speaker 5: letter was found at the Wichitaw Public Library early Saturday morning.

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Speaker 3: This new package was discovered by a Wichita library employee

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Speaker 3: on the morning of July seventeenth, two thousand and four.

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Speaker 5: Speculation immediately went to BTK and another possible communication from

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Speaker 5: the serial killer. Police now confirming they are turning the

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Speaker 5: letter as such while they wait for the FBI to

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Speaker 5: confirm whether the letter is in fact from BTK.

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Speaker 3: At Cake, we didn't know the contents of this letter.

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Speaker 3: Police had confiscated it before any journalists had a chance

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Speaker 3: to see it, but investigators had it and they were

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Speaker 3: shocked by what it said. In it, BTK claimed responsibility

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Speaker 3: for a new victim. This letter was titled Jakie, and

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Speaker 3: this time BTK says he met and killed a nineteen

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Speaker 3: year old named Jake Allen. Just a few weeks earlier,

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Speaker 3: a Jake Allen had been found dead near Wellington, Kansas,

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Speaker 3: just outside of Wichita, but police hadn't determined the cause

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Speaker 3: of death just yet. And then this new letter arrives,

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Speaker 3: where BTK writes.

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Speaker 1: I had to stop work on chapter two of the

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Speaker 1: BTK story due to the death of j I was

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Speaker 1: so excited about this incident that I had to tell

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Speaker 1: the story.

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Speaker 3: BTK goes on to say that he supposedly corresponded with

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Speaker 3: Jake over email. According to the letter, the two men

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Speaker 3: talked about explicit sexual desires.

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Speaker 1: Jakie had fantasies about sexual masturbation in unusual ways with

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Speaker 1: bondage and homosexual thrills.

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Speaker 3: The letter implies that at some point BTK convinced Jake

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Speaker 3: to meet him in person, and that BTK then murdered him.

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Speaker 3: Also included in this library package were photos of a

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Speaker 3: hooded figure in bondage and a crew drawing of a

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Speaker 3: bound up mail. The BTK Task Force looked into the

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Speaker 3: supposed connection to Jake Allen, but they found no evidence

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Speaker 3: that BTK was actually involved, and in fact, it was

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Speaker 3: eventually determined that Jake Allen had actually come headed suicide.

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Speaker 3: So what was this all about? Just a prank raider

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Speaker 3: would later admit that he was just toying with police.

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Speaker 3: Here's what he said years later, we're counting the library package.

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Speaker 1: I posted the Jaki letter under the cover story of

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Speaker 1: Erin's on a Saturday morning. I handled the Jakie package

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Speaker 1: with gloves. I saw the article about him in the

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Speaker 1: Wichita Eagle. I meant no disrespect to his family. I

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Speaker 1: only used him as a symbol to stir the pot.

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Speaker 1: I used some male slick ads to draw off. With

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Speaker 1: this letter, I let the police know that I was older,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps smarter with age, even if they didn't know

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Speaker 1: my age. At the age of fifty nine, I was

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Speaker 1: pretty old for a serial killer to be on the prowl.

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Speaker 3: Raider was pretty happy with himself. He thought he had

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Speaker 3: thrown the police for a loop. At the very least,

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Speaker 3: he made them suspect that he was still dangerous, that

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Speaker 3: he might be able to kill again all these years later,

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Speaker 3: and in fact, Raider was considering it throughout two thousand

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Speaker 3: and four. While sending these letters. He was still prowling,

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Speaker 3: planning to kill again, and he had his eyes on

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Speaker 3: a new target, which he discovered while working his job

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Speaker 3: with Wichita Animal Control. It was his first real project

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Speaker 3: in fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: My first attempt was October twenty second, two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: As I drove back and forth to the Wichita Animal

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Speaker 1: shelter on North Hillside, I watched the address alone hydraulic.

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Speaker 1: The houses were set back a little. The house had

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Speaker 1: a female, a high school girl, and a male at

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Speaker 1: one time, but he disappeared or left as the days passed.

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Speaker 1: I would write in a log book the dates and

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Speaker 1: times of her routines. She had a perfect pattern. She

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Speaker 1: was a brunette, a bit heavy, medium height, in her

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Speaker 1: thirties or forties. She worked at a machine shop on

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Speaker 1: the corner of Hillside in thirty seventh, just north of

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Speaker 1: the shelter, so easy for me to stalk.

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Speaker 3: We don't know her real name, but Raider called her

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Speaker 3: project board Water. After enough stalking, he finally picked a

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Speaker 3: day in the fall of two thousand and four and

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Speaker 3: made his move.

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Speaker 1: On Friday, October twenty second. I packed up my hit kit,

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Speaker 1: bike and gear I was going to use on her

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Speaker 1: at the house, so I was ready. I drove by

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Speaker 1: the house all pent up. I saw a crew working

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Speaker 1: at the curb near her house. The unknown always and unknown,

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Speaker 1: too many people around. I waited the time ran out.

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Speaker 1: I was disappointed. I wasn't going to do the hit,

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Speaker 1: but I thought I would try again in the spring

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Speaker 1: when I had an excuse for fishing.

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Speaker 3: It was a failed attempt. He got to buy the

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Speaker 3: number of people surrounding our house, most of them apparently

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Speaker 3: construction workers. But Raider wasn't done that day. He decided

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Speaker 3: to do something else instead. Before going home, on October

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Speaker 3: twenty second, he made a detour. He stopped off at

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Speaker 3: the Omni Center in Wichita.

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Speaker 8: A UPS worker comes and goes with nothing to say,

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Speaker 8: not willing to talk about his colleague who's believed to

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Speaker 8: have found a suspicious package in this dropbox on Friday,

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Speaker 8: October twenty second, and this FedEx worker says, the employee

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Speaker 8: who usually runs by here has to be taken off

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Speaker 8: this stop because of what happened Friday night. This email

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Speaker 8: is all police would release concerning the package, it says. Recently,

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Speaker 8: the Wichita Police Department obtained another letter that could be

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Speaker 8: connected to the BTK investigation. It comes on October twenty second,

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Speaker 8: the thirtieth anniversary of his first communication with police concerning

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Speaker 8: his string of killings.

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Speaker 3: It was a big day for BTK. This new letter

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Speaker 3: included information about his background and upbringing. This was chapter two,

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Speaker 3: titled Dawn. It included his supposed birth year and told

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Speaker 3: stories from his childhood. He admitted to being a peeping

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Speaker 3: tom and even gave away that he had been in

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Speaker 3: the Air Force. This very likely gave Raider a confidence

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Speaker 3: boost his story was getting out there. But this new

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Speaker 3: information also emboldened the police. They started looking for men

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Speaker 3: matching his age and history, and very soon they found someone.

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Speaker 3: On December one, two thousand and four, investigators honed in

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Speaker 3: on a promising BTK suspect. All day, police staked out

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Speaker 3: the house where the suspect lived. Then at around seven

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Speaker 3: thirty pm, they raided the house guns drawn.

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Speaker 9: I had thought what I heard were knocks on the door,

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Speaker 9: like hard knocks, and I wasn't feeling well that day.

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Speaker 9: I had already turned in for the night, and the

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Speaker 9: next thing I knew there were people in my house,

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Speaker 9: several plain clothes policemen and some uniform There were at

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Speaker 9: least five nine milimeters pointing at me.

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Speaker 3: The man they arrested was sixty four year old Roger Valadez.

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Speaker 3: He was born in nineteen thirty nine, the year BTK

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Speaker 3: had claimed was his birth year in the last letter,

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Speaker 3: and he lived near railroad tracks, something BTK had also

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Speaker 3: alluded to in the letter. I remember this night well.

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Speaker 3: My news director and I had to spend the night

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Speaker 3: in the newsroom just in case an announcement was made,

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Speaker 3: so Cake could be the first to announce btk's arrest.

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Speaker 3: They arrested Validez on some small charges misdemeanors like trespassing,

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Speaker 3: our housing code violations. Police made a mess of his

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Speaker 3: house and interrogated him for the next twenty four hours.

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Speaker 9: They broke the storm door open, and they broke the

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00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 9: wooden entry door to gain entry into my house, and

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Speaker 9: there they were. They told me that I had given DNA.

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Speaker 9: They held me down and they swabbed my cheek and

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Speaker 9: they took it forciately.

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Speaker 3: After the DNA swab, they waited for the results. But

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Speaker 3: a few days later KSNTV announced that BTK had been

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Speaker 3: caught and that his name was Roger Valadez. They had

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Speaker 3: jumped the gun because soon the DNA results did come back.

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Speaker 3: Roger was innocent and cleared of suspicion, but the damage

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Speaker 3: on Roger's life was already done. He was supposedly branded

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Speaker 3: a killer by some people in the community and struggled

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Speaker 3: to regain his trust with local He later sued the

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Speaker 3: TV station for one point one million dollars and one.

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Speaker 9: My name was in My family's name was besmirched and

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Speaker 9: damaged by the media in a negative way. I want

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Speaker 9: this to come out and be known that there was

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Speaker 9: a travesty of justice here.

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Speaker 3: This false alarm was only a temporary distraction, because a

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Speaker 3: few weeks later BTK would remind everyone that he was

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Speaker 3: still out there. Here's former Wichita Deputy District Attorney Kevin O'Connor.

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Speaker 6: Dennis Raider called a quick trip, told a kid that

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Speaker 6: was working there that there was a package in a park,

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00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 6: gave directions to it, but he gave the wrong directions

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Speaker 6: and the police couldn't find it. There was a gentleman

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00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 6: that was walking through the park about a week or

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00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 6: so later that saw a package, picked it up, took

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Speaker 6: it home.

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Speaker 3: This discovery took place on December thirteenth, two thousand and

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Speaker 3: four in Murdoch Park.

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Speaker 2: He lived with his mother.

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00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 6: They opened it up and it was a doll purported

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00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 6: to be Nancy Fox and a description of the Nancy

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Speaker 6: Fox murder.

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00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 1: I spotted Nancy one day while cruising the area, found

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00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,719
Speaker 1: out her name by checking her mailbox, and tracked her

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Speaker 1: to work up close. I visited the store where she worked,

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Speaker 1: asking for.

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Speaker 6: Some jewelry, and they did what all good citizens would

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Speaker 6: do in this situation like this. They called KKE TV.

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00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 6: And I'm being sarcastic because they didn't call the police

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Speaker 6: like they probably should have. But they called kke TV

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Speaker 6: and KTV reporter went out there, Janine Keasling, who's a

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Speaker 6: friend of mine. Janine was the reporter on the street.

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Speaker 5: Police have not confirmed this latest package was from the killer,

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00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 5: but also inside was a note with what previous investigators

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00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 5: say appears to be BTK signature. We've been asked not

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Speaker 5: to show that.

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Speaker 6: What ended up happening is is that they wanted to

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Speaker 6: film police opening up the things, and the police, of

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Speaker 6: course we're not going to let them do it. I

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Speaker 6: think that created some animosity.

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Speaker 3: I can remember about this time, tensions were rising between

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Speaker 3: us in the newsroom and the police. All of us

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00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,199
Speaker 3: wanted to catch BTK, but there were some disagreements about

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Speaker 3: what to make public and what to withhold. That would

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00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 3: become an issue once more when BTK sent a slew

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Speaker 3: of new letters toss at KTV.

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Speaker 10: It appears BTK is communicating again. KKTV receiving another mysterious

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00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 10: message today.

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Speaker 5: This one contains both a message to Cake and police

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Speaker 5: on Janine Keasling, all the exclusive details coming up in

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Speaker 5: a live report.

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Speaker 3: The first of these was a letter received on January

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Speaker 3: twenty fifth, two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: It said date week of January seventeen eight, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, where between sixty ninth Street North and seventy

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Speaker 1: seventh Street North on Seneca Street contents post toasties box,

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00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: PJ Little Mix and doll, punt of KS, acronym list

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Speaker 1: and jewelry.

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Speaker 3: This time, the Cake news director sent reporters to the

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00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: site to gather the package, which was in fact a

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Speaker 3: post hosty cereal box. It contained a list of his

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00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 3: favorite acronyms, including DBS for death by strangulation and DTPG

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00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: for death to Pretty Girl. It also contained a naked

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Speaker 3: barbie doll with a noose around its neck. Police thought

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00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 3: PJ Littlemechs might be referring to the murder of twelve

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00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 3: year old Josephinotaro, along with the other three members of

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Speaker 3: her family, who were killed in nineteen seventy four. The

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00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,239
Speaker 3: Cake team brought the package back to the station and

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Speaker 3: the news director wanted to use it as a bargaining

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Speaker 3: ship with the police.

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Speaker 6: And the police weren't having that, and it created some difficulties,

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Speaker 6: and I even had to get on the phone and

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Speaker 6: talk to KKETV saying this is a homicide investigation and

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Speaker 6: we were going to get that information one way.

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Speaker 2: Or the other.

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Speaker 3: Even KKTV anchor Larry Hattiberg thought it was a bad

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Speaker 3: idea to keep the new package hostage.

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Speaker 4: We had one instance in which a news director started

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Speaker 4: to withhold one of the postcards and try to trade

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Speaker 4: it for an interview with the police chief. I was

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Speaker 4: standing there when he said that I had encouraged him

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Speaker 4: not to do that at any time. The police got

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Speaker 4: very mad and he came within ten seconds of being

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Speaker 4: arrested and hauled them to the jail.

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Speaker 3: The situation did create some sourdness.

359
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 6: So what Cake ended up doing is sending a film

360
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 6: crew out to where the cereal box was. That created

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00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 6: some hard feelings since they drove into a potential crime scene.

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00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 4: They ran over some tracks in the gravel road with

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Speaker 4: their car. That's a big no no, and it was

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00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: because the two were a little bit inexperienced. Police are

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00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: probably not happy about that and certainly let us know.

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Speaker 6: That was a difficult time. But I also tried to

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Speaker 6: take into account the pressure that the media had too,

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00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 6: the need to be the first reporting. So it was understood,

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00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 6: but it did create an animosity that hadn't been there before.

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00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 6: Because I think if you go through this case, you

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00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 6: see the media doing their best they can to help

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00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 6: as much as they can and still be responsible journalists.

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Speaker 3: My opinion on the matter is this, it was a

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Speaker 3: very tricky time for all the media in which it all.

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00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 3: I agree with Larry as a longtime news anchor, it

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00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: was a very tough balancing app This on one hand,

377
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 3: was the biggest story any of us would ever cover

378
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 3: in our career. While we felt the drive to do

379
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 3: it better than our competitors, we were also aware that

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00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: at this point we were literally partnering with the police

381
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 3: department to try and catch a killer. After this event,

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00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 3: we all collectively decided to cut the in fighting. We

383
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: all had a more important job to do and we

384
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: didn't want BTK to win. The next time a BTK

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00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: letter came through, we were all on the same page,

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00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: and that next letter only came about a week later.

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Speaker 10: Today's message is aily similar to a postcard Cake received

388
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 10: last week. Keate Janine Keysling is live outside the Cake

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Speaker 10: studios in northwest Wichita, Jenny Well Larry.

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00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: For the second time in just more than a week,

391
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 5: another possible communication from BTK arrives here at our studios.

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00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 5: The communications are getting more frequent and a lot more

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00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 5: personal which top police have asked us not to reveal

394
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 5: certain information contained in the communications sent to Cake News.

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Speaker 5: Investigators are concerned it could hamper the BTK investigation. To date,

396
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 5: we have honored all of their requests.

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00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 3: This letter, though, contained a troubling message from BTK, thanks to.

398
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: The news team for their efforts. Sorry about Susan and

399
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: Jeff's colds.

400
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: As we told you about in episode one, Cake was

401
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 3: btk's favorite news station, and this letter revealed that he

402
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 3: knew about our colds, which my co anchor Jeff and

403
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: I had briefly mentioned on the air just a few

404
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: days prior. It was a chilling realization that BTK was

405
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: watching us. From that day forward, I had to be hypervigilant,

406
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: never leaving the station at night alone or engaging with

407
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 3: any strangers who approached me. Unfortunately, that letter didn't provide

408
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: any new leads for the police. However, the earlier letter

409
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 3: that revealed the location of the toasties box had one

410
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 3: more curious message to follow up on.

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00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: It said, let me know somehow if you are Richita

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00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: PD received this. Also let me know if you were

413
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: PD received number seven at home depot Dropsite one eight

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00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: five thanks.

415
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 3: After seeing the reference to home Depot in btk's previous letter,

416
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: police combed every home depot in the area. They posted

417
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: notes in the employee breakrooms asking if anyone knew anything

418
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: about a strange package. Finally, one employee responded. He said

419
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: that some weeks earlier, in January, he noticed an odd

420
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: cereal box sitting in the bed of his pickup truck.

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00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 6: Didn't think anything of it. I don't know what rock

422
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 6: the person was living under, but didn't really think anything

423
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 6: of it and threw it away.

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00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: This is Kevin O'Connor again.

425
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 6: Well, it turns out that his roommate had not put

426
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 6: the trash down, so they actually did recover it. Home

427
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 6: depot was extremely cooperative and had very good cameras. We

428
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 6: were able to see a car pull up next to

429
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 6: this employee's car. One of the detective's detective Ralph, who

430
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 6: knows a lot about cars, immediately identified it as a

431
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 6: black cheap Cherokee. One of my duties then was to

432
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 6: track down and go through or try to get a

433
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 6: list of all the black jeep Cherokees in which Ta Kansas,

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00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 6: and there's a lot of them.

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00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 3: The letter in this home Depot Cereal box also had

436
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: an interesting question written on it.

437
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: Can I communicate with a floppy not be traced to

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00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: a computer? Be honest?

439
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: BTK was actually asking police if he could communicate with

440
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: a floppy disc without being caught. So far, he had

441
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 3: been communicating solely with paper. Maybe he thought it was

442
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: too risky and that floppy discs would be safer. The

443
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 3: letter continued.

444
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: Under miscellaneous section four ninety four, rex it will be okay.

445
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: Run it for a few days. In case I'm out

446
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: of town. I will try a floppy for a test

447
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: run sometime in the near future February or March.

448
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: Let me translate. BTK was instructing police to post an

449
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: ad in the miscellaneous section of the newspaper. If the

450
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: ad had the message rex it will be okay, that

451
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: would signal BTK the police had agreed to communicate via

452
00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: floppy disc. Of course, investigators jumped at the opportunity. On

453
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: January twenty eighth, the police ran a classified ad in

454
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: the Wichita Eagle. It used that phrase so BTK would

455
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: know it was for him, and it asked him to

456
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: contact the police at a specific PO box address. Raider

457
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: thought he had them in his track. Little did he

458
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: know he was about to fall into theirs. In the

459
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: book Confession of a Serial Killer, author Catherine Ramslin describes

460
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: Raider's mindset at this point.

461
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 11: Rader trusted the police to tell him the truth. He

462
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 11: had already questioned an officer, Randy Stone, about the security

463
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 11: of email and learned that it can be traced. He

464
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 11: thought that floppies were another matter, however.

465
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: And on February sixteenth, police got their biggest break when

466
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: Raider sent his final correspondence in the form of a

467
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: floppy disc. It also came with postcards with instructiontions on

468
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: how to keep communicating, but this time police wouldn't need them.

469
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 6: This still gives me goosebumps because I was in the

470
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 6: room along with the rest of the task force and

471
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 6: police Officer Stone puts the disc into the computer. He

472
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 6: goes into the computer language. It's just gibberish. I can't

473
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 6: understand it, and embedded in there. As you go through

474
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 6: the lines of meaningless symbols and letters, you see Dennis,

475
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 6: and then a few lines later you see christ Lutheran

476
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 6: Church and then Parksey Library.

477
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 3: Buried in the disc, which had only one file and

478
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 3: it titled this is a test. Was metadata now for

479
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 3: anyone who doesn't know. Metadata is like an invisible record

480
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: of who accesses the data on the disc. And when

481
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: an unbeknownst to Raider he had left his digital tracks

482
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: on the floppy.

483
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 6: Disc, somebody got on Google and just googled Christ Lutheran

484
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 6: Church and up there in the corner I could still

485
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 6: see it to this day is a picture of the

486
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 6: president of the church, which is Dennis Raider. Right away,

487
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 6: Kenny landwere sent out a couple of detectives I think

488
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 6: it was Detective Ralph and Detective Schneider, Clinch Schneider, and

489
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 6: they drove out to an address on Independent Street in

490
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 6: Park City where Raider lived, and sure enough there was

491
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 6: a black cherokee in the driveway that belonged to his son.

492
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 6: Ralph and Schneider wanted to make an arrest right then

493
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 6: and there. I remember listening to the phone call that

494
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 6: Ralph and Schneider had with Land where I was standing

495
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 6: right there, and they called and said there's a black

496
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 6: cherokee in the driveway. And I'll never forget how cool

497
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 6: Kenny Landware was. He said, Okay, come on back, and

498
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 6: they weren't very happy about it. There are a lot

499
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 6: of words that you can't say on TV. Again, I

500
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 6: think it goes to Kenny how prepared he was for

501
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 6: the situation. He wanted to make it a better case.

502
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 6: At that time, there was a concern if that they

503
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 6: went up and contacted Raider, it would spook him and

504
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 6: he would get rid of evidence. So we went about

505
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 6: preparing and stalking him. Learning about Dennis Rader.

506
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,959
Speaker 3: You can understand why Kenny Landweer wanted to wait. Without

507
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: rock solid evidence, Raider might walk free. So they turned

508
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: to DNA. If you remember, they had preserved samples of

509
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: BTK seamen from the crime scenes all those years ago,

510
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 3: and they have been testing it against people all across Wichita.

511
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: Oddly enough, my co anker, Larry Hadiberg, was among those

512
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: swabbed for DNA.

513
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: I had two detectives who I knew, show up at

514
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 4: the TV station and say, Larry, we need to take

515
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 4: your DNA. Said, okay, why do you need my DNA?

516
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: And they said, because we're getting hips to the BTK

517
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: tip line that since you know so much about BTK,

518
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 4: maybe you are BTK. And I said, well, I can

519
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 4: assure you I'm not. And they said, we're pretty sure

520
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: you're not. And what this is is just an elimination process.

521
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 10: Now in the interest of full disclosure. As you know,

522
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 10: the Wichita Police Department has swabbed over four thousand men

523
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 10: to eliminate them as BTK suspects. Well, in the past

524
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 10: forty eight hours, I too have been swabbed. I now

525
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 10: joined the list of many journalists, police officials, and businessmen.

526
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: Who have consented to the swab.

527
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 10: But I will tell you it gives you a very

528
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 10: odd feeling.

529
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 4: I admit at the scenes I fit the age profile.

530
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 4: Then I talk about it on TV, so people say, well,

531
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 4: he must be BTK. I was not.

532
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 3: But police weren't concerned about Larry or anyone else's DNA anymore.

533
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: They only wanted the DNA of Dennis Raider. If they

534
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: could match him to the DNA from BTK semen, it

535
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: was checkmate, and they came up with a scheme involving

536
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 3: Raider's daughter, Carrie Rawson.

537
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 6: He had a daughter that had gone to school at

538
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 6: Kansas State University in Manhattan, Kansas. With her age and

539
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 6: being in school, the investigator said she would have had

540
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 6: a PAP smear while in college. And although there was

541
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 6: some thought of like a TV show where we're going

542
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 6: to go and maybe get a cup of coffee that

543
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 6: he's drinking, or wait until he spits on the sidewalk,

544
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 6: which is a very CSI TV show kind of stuff

545
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 6: where you may or may not get DNA. What we

546
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 6: figured is we could do reverse DNA. We realized the

547
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 6: significance of that decision that we would be going into

548
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 6: somebody's medical history, and I can't tell you that there

549
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 6: was a lot of respect paid to the fact that

550
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 6: we're getting somebody's medical history unknowingly. And so what we

551
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 6: ended up doing rather than issuing a subpoena is we

552
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 6: prepared something akin to a search warrant and brought to

553
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 6: Judge Waller with a affidavid as to why we were

554
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 6: seeking it.

555
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: As Kevin says, Carrie had no idea what was going

556
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: on or that police had been accessing her medical files

557
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: and using her DNA to get to her father.

558
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 12: They got a subpoena and they got a warrant without

559
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 12: my knowledge, and they went to case date dug through

560
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 12: all my health records and found out I had had

561
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 12: PAF smears like in two thousand and two thousand and one,

562
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 12: and there was the slide, and they take that to

563
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 12: the KBI lab in Topeka, and some technicians able to

564
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 12: extract that old DNA mine pretty brilliant from the slide.

565
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: It would take some time to get the results back,

566
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 3: so in the meantime, police followed Raider, memorized his routines,

567
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 3: and learned everything about him.

568
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 6: During that week, we found out where he worked, which

569
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 6: was with Park City. He was an animal control officer

570
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 6: with an office right next to the police department, like

571
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 6: on the other side of the wall, and went about

572
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 6: looking at how he did things. So we knew that

573
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 6: Raider would leave the office before lunch. He would travel

574
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 6: to his home in Park City, not far away, and

575
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 6: so the plans were made. Search warrants were drawn in advance.

576
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 6: We did search warrants for his home, his parents' home,

577
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 6: the Park City Library. I remember being part listening and

578
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 6: watching how they talked about who would be on the

579
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 6: arrest team, how the arrest would go down, what they

580
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 6: would do with him when he was arrested. I mean

581
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 6: they even have it down to who was going to

582
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 6: put the cuffs on him, who was going to walk

583
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 6: him back to the car that Kenny Landwuare was going

584
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 6: to be in. It was a fascinating night to be

585
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 6: a part of I remember asking if I could go,

586
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 6: and they reminded me I was not a police officer.

587
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 6: That they liked me a lot, but I'm not a cop.

588
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 6: I even offered to go in the trunk. I had

589
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 6: to just listen to it from the command center there

590
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 6: the epic center that had been set up, but the

591
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 6: walls around the conference room were all about Dennis Raider

592
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 6: and learning his history and for the lack of a

593
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 6: better phrase, stalking him for about a week.

594
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: Finally, on February twenty fifth, two thousand and five, after

595
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: days of waiting and decades of police work, investigators got

596
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 3: what they were looking for. The DNA results came back.

597
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 6: It told us that the semen that was from the

598
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 6: feet of Josie o'tero, the stain that was left in

599
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 6: the bathrobe that was at Nancy Fox's head, and the

600
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 6: fingernail from Vicky Waigerley all those three DNA samples by

601
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 6: using reverse DNA told us that whoever left those samples

602
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 6: was the father of Kerrie Raider, which meant Dennis Raider.

603
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 6: And then that was the time to make an arrest.

604
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: Next time on Monster BTK.

605
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 6: On that day, I remember it was radio silence.

606
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: When the chief came out and said we've caught BTK.

607
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: Denial was the first reaction. One thing now said, My

608
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: phone started ranging and literally literally didn't quit ranging all

609
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: day on.

610
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 12: I've gone into physical shock.

611
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: I shook for four days.

612
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 12: I'm spinning, literally about to pass out, and I make

613
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 12: it over to my couch right.

614
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 4: Then at that moment, I'm starting to plan my revenge

615
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: now that they got him, how am I going to

616
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 4: get my hands on him?

617
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 11: Once he realized there was no getting out of this,

618
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 11: he then admitted to all the murders and said, well,

619
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 11: since you know about seven, I'll tell you event some others.

620
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 2: Monster BTK is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts.

621
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: The show is written by Nomes Griffin, Trevor Young, and

622
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: Jesse Funk. Our host is Susan Peters. Executive producers on

623
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 2: Behalf of Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay,

624
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: alongside supervising producer Tracy Kaplan. Executive producers on Behalf of

625
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts include Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, alongside producers

626
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk and supervising producerrima Il Kali.

627
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 2: Marketing support by David Wasserman and Alison Wright at iHeart

628
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: Podcasts and Caroline Origemma at tenderfoot TV. Auditional research by

629
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: Claudia Daffrico, original artwork by Kevin Mister Soul Harp, original

630
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Orrin

631
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 2: Rosenbaum and the team at UTA and the Nord Group.

632
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV, visit the

633
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

634
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks for listening.