1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight. From Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast, George

3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 1: Nori with you, David Weatherley back with us. They renaissance

4
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 1: man of the strange and the supernatural. He has traveled

5
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 1: the world in search of mysterious monsters, ghosts, magic, folklore

6
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: and legends. And from dusty castles to strange remote islands

7
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 1: to ancient sites, He's been there. He is journeyed to

8
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: the most unusual places on the globe, seeking the unusual.

9
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 1: David has become fascinated with the weird and the unusual

10
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 1: at a very early age, and for decades he has

11
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,200
Speaker 1: charted a course of exploration and investigation under the unexplained. David,

12
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 1: welcome back, my friend. George. Goodness, talk to you looking

13
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,879
Speaker 1: forward to this. And how young were you when you

14
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,280
Speaker 1: got interested in these unusual things? Well, you know, I

15
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 1: was one of those kids who grew up loving ghost

16
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 1: stories and you know, hearing my grandmother tell different tidbits

17
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: of old folklore and such. So you know, by the

18
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 1: time I was in my early teens, I was actively

19
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: investigating this stuff. And of course that was in nineteen seventies.

20
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't. It wasn't a very hip thing back then.

21
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 1: You know, I always tell people when I got into

22
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,520
Speaker 1: this into this field. You know, if I went to

23
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: a party, I was guaranteed a nice, quiet evening alone

24
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: as soon as I mentioned what I was interested in,

25
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 1: because nobody wanted to hear, you know, about ghosts or

26
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 1: bigfoot or UFOs and things like that. It was, you know,

27
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,039
Speaker 1: stay away from this guy. But it's kind of the

28
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 1: polar opposite now. You know, I go to a gathering

29
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: and mentioned what I do, and there's a queue out

30
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: the door because everybody has a story to tell. Yeah,

31
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,120
Speaker 1: now you're the center of attention when when you bring

32
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: it up. Yes, so, oh that's fantastic. And you have

33
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 1: brought us over the years, David, some great stories. Ry

34
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 1: how many years you've been on past with us? Now, oh, guys,

35
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 1: I can't even remember ten, maybe at least at least gosh,

36
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 1: And I'll always remember Black Eyed Kids. That that that

37
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 1: incredible book, The Black Eyed Children is Uh, it's still haunting.

38
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: You know that people pick people picture these kids coming

39
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: to your door. You know, let us in, let us in.

40
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 1: It's it's something. How did you stumble across that story, uh,

41
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 1: that one. Well, you know, in the early days of

42
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,959
Speaker 1: the Internet, of course, stories started circulating about the black

43
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: Eyed Kids. Brian Bethel's account, of course, the most famous

44
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 1: one that you know, became pretty widespread, and then a

45
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 1: lot of other accounts. Back then, just like now on

46
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 1: the Internet, when something was posted, it very difficult to

47
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 1: trace down the source, and it kind on my radar

48
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: just because I was, you know, one of those people

49
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: that tried to track all kinds of weird and creepy

50
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,240
Speaker 1: stories and so forth. But it didn't put a lot

51
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: of energy into it until people started giving me proportion

52
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 1: directly they had encountered these things. And then it kind

53
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,919
Speaker 1: of took on a different a different texture, because suddenly,

54
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't just a secondhand story or a

55
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 1: friend of a friend, you know, suddenly there were people

56
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,359
Speaker 1: that I was able to talk too directly that had

57
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 1: encountered these things. And now, of course eerie companions, a

58
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: history of haunted dolls. How many dolls are we talking about?

59
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: Is this is this like widespread? Oh it is indeed, yeah, yeah,

60
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean this has become, of course a big thing

61
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 1: in recent years because of the hobby of collecting haunted objects.

62
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 1: So there's actually a pretty extensive what they call a

63
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: haunted doll trade that takes place online. You know, you

64
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 1: can go on eBay on any given day and find

65
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, dozens upon dozens of these things for sale

66
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: their websites that sell you know, dolls, and all of

67
00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: these I should know, aren't you know, purportedly they're haunted, right,

68
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 1: But of course each one has to be taken on

69
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 1: an individual basis. But the thing is is that it's

70
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: grown into this whole m segment of the doll trade,

71
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, which is of course very old at this

72
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 1: point anyway, And the media has helped hype this so

73
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,280
Speaker 1: much because you know, look at how many creepy doll

74
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,480
Speaker 1: movies come out George, oh my god in recent years,

75
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: which of course, the an a doll franchise, right, which

76
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: was edon Lorraine Warren's taught the story, wasn't it. That's right? Yeah? Yeah?

77
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 1: And then the Chucky Doll, the Chucky Chucky, which you know,

78
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,720
Speaker 1: my our our mutual friend, Joshua Warren, he and I

79
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 1: talked a lot about Robert the Doll, who I called

80
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: the grand the granddaddy of haunted dolls exactly. He kind

81
00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: of sets the precedent, and it's such an amazing story

82
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,600
Speaker 1: about a haunted object, the whole, the whole tale of Robert.

83
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 1: But there's a lot lot of indications that Robert was

84
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: a big influence on the creators of the Chucky franchise.

85
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 1: Some people dispute that, but Joshua and I have both

86
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,599
Speaker 1: heard things that I agree with you pretty much directly

87
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: point to Okay, yeah, he was a major influence. David.

88
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 1: How far back does the origin of haunted dolls goll?

89
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: How far back have you traced it? Well, now, that's

90
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 1: a curious question in some ways, George, because the origin

91
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 1: of dolls themselves, of course go back thousands of years.

92
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they found dolls in ancient Egyptian ruins. They

93
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: they found the dollar a few years ago that was

94
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 1: mad to four thousand, five hundred years old. And the

95
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 1: thing is is, when we get into the early period

96
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 1: of these dolls not necessarily haunted. But what's curious is

97
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,479
Speaker 1: that many of these objects were used not as toys

98
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 1: but for magic and ritual and that kind of curves

99
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: right into one of the reasons that dolls can be

100
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: haunted is their use in ritual magic. So you know,

101
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 1: if we if we look at that question on one hand,

102
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 1: we could say, well, you know, we've got Robert who

103
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: showed up in the early nineteen hundreds. But if we

104
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: look at sort of that creep factor in what can

105
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,839
Speaker 1: be instilled in dolls, then we're going back easily hundreds

106
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 1: of years. I had talked to a voodoo practitioner, David,

107
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 1: about voodoo dolls, and she had told me that the

108
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 1: media blew it out of proportion and completely change the

109
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,119
Speaker 1: meaning of their dolls. And this is what she said.

110
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: She said, we would pray for individuals, We'd make a

111
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 1: doll in their image. We'd put their name on a

112
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: little piece of paper and stick a pin through it

113
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,920
Speaker 1: to keep their name on the body of the doll.

114
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 1: And you know, that way, we would pray for you,

115
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 1: and we'd have this little figurine that looked like you.

116
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: And when the media started covering it, all they saw

117
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 1: were pins stuck in dolls, thinking that it was something

118
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 1: evil like your sense, you know, sticking a knife in

119
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 1: someone and saying a prayer and it got blown out

120
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 1: of proportion. That was an interesting story. Yeah, and that's

121
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,640
Speaker 1: kind of you know, that's certainly one perspective and from

122
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 1: a practitioner like that is pretty interesting to hear. I

123
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: will say, however, that this idea of using dolls to

124
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: curse things, it's it's much much older than that, because

125
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 1: what happened with the voodoo doll in particular, is that

126
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 1: we have something created essentially from the melting pot of

127
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,160
Speaker 1: early America. You know, we had the the slaves who

128
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: were in the country, of course, and the Europeans from

129
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 1: various countries that were mixing their ideas. And if we

130
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 1: look at the what we now perceive as a modern

131
00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: voodoo doll, you know, it's just a little cloth thing

132
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 1: that's sewn together. Well, that relates more to a European

133
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 1: tradition of using what's called a poppet, and poppets can

134
00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 1: be used in various kinds of magic to often to

135
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 1: harm people, but for other reasons too, And it's sort

136
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 1: of married into African and Asian traditions of using cards

137
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: fetishes for various magical purposes. So it's really interesting to

138
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 1: look at, George, because you know, this comes in from

139
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 1: so many different directions and so many different cultures. I

140
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: do agree that the media sort of co created this

141
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,600
Speaker 1: whole idea of the terrifying voodoo doll that can be

142
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,680
Speaker 1: used to harm someone. However, there are times historically we

143
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 1: can go back and point to specific instances of people

144
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: using dolls, whether it's a poppet or something else, to

145
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 1: try to curse someone. And in fact, one of the

146
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: greatest stories is from the early eighteen hund Caroline of Brunswick,

147
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: who was Princess of Wales. She was married to Prince Regent.

148
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: He would later become King George the Fourth, but she

149
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:15,079
Speaker 1: hated in George. So there's historical documents her diary in fact,

150
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: that talks about the fact that she would spend hours

151
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 1: crafting watch images of him little dolls in his whiteness,

152
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: stick them full of pins and put them over a

153
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: fire to roast. She did the opposite of what a

154
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 1: voodoo doll should have been. Huh, well, she was, I mean,

155
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 1: she was trying to curse him, in trying to harm

156
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: him because she despised him so much. What happened to

157
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 1: the guy ultimately, there's nothing that you know, we can

158
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 1: point to that say he didn't die of a heart

159
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 1: attack or anything like that, right, so, you know, because

160
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,160
Speaker 1: she ended up. Of course, they separated and she went

161
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,559
Speaker 1: to live with her lover in Italy or something like that.

162
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 1: But you know, it's still it's just a fascinating historical

163
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 1: record at this idea has been with us for a

164
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 1: very long time. That the concept that you can take

165
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 1: an image of a person, it's sympathetic magic is what

166
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: it's called. You can take an image of a person

167
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 1: and use that to project something onto them by manipulating

168
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 1: the image, whether that be positive or negative. That's a

169
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 1: good point. It's gonna be interesting when we take calls

170
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 1: next hour, David to see if people have any dolls

171
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 1: stories they want to share with us as as well.

172
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 1: They are kind of they are kind of freaky, aren't they.

173
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,679
Speaker 1: I Mean I get freaked out with children ghost stories.

174
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,679
Speaker 1: I mean they just creep me out. I don't know why,

175
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: but they just do. And you know, when you hear

176
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 1: these movies and you hear a little kid's voice from

177
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: the other dimension, you know, mommy, mommy, where are you?

178
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but why do little kids stories

179
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: ie dolls freak us out so much? Well, there's a

180
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 1: couple of answers to that, George. You know about little

181
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 1: kids stories, like you know, punting locations that reportedly have

182
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 1: children's spirits and things like that. There's a psychological component

183
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,839
Speaker 1: that comes in because you know, adults are hard wired

184
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 1: to take care of children, and you know, if something

185
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 1: like that is it's contradictory. It's the same thing we've

186
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,559
Speaker 1: talked about with black eyed children. You know, we're hardwired

187
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: to help kids, and if a kid comes up and says, mister,

188
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 1: I need, you know, to use your phone, or I

189
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: need to find my mother or something like that, you're

190
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 1: going to want to help them. But if all your

191
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: warning signals are going off, that's something's wrong. It's a

192
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 1: whole different ballgame. So you know, this translates somewhat to dolls,

193
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,959
Speaker 1: but then not quite because what we get with dolls,

194
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 1: we get something that is in the image of a human,

195
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 1: but there's no way to really relate to it. You

196
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 1: would another live being. And you know this, this is

197
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 1: a very difficult thing for people to deal with. You know,

198
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 1: there was a whole study done in twenty thirteen that

199
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,640
Speaker 1: talked about creepiness. You're talking about how creepy these things

200
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 1: are and would you be shocked to know, George, that

201
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 1: one of the creepiest hobbies is collecting dolls. Creepiest hobby

202
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: one of these I would think it, I would think

203
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 1: it was not a non creepy hobby. But go ahead

204
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,960
Speaker 1: tell me more. Well, you know, they did this study

205
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: to determine exactly what creepiness, you know, what made people

206
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 1: feel creepy, what things registered has creepiness, And one of

207
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 1: the things that came up were hobbies. So they pulled

208
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 1: all these people and you know, a couple of thousand

209
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: people and they looked at this this concept and basically said,

210
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, what do you find creepy? And again, one

211
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: of the things that topped the list was was adults

212
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,920
Speaker 1: who collect dolls. But this goes right back into this

213
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 1: concept of an object that is not something we can

214
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: really relate to, even though we should be able to do. So,

215
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's there's something you have to consider

216
00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,040
Speaker 1: if if you and I are sitting talking in you know,

217
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: face to face, there are subtle things that go on.

218
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: You know, there are eye movements, there are there's subtle

219
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 1: body language and so forth, and you know that happens

220
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 1: on a regular basis no matter who or what living

221
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: being you're interacting with. Because if you're interacting with your

222
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: dog or your cat or even you know, a squirrel that's,

223
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, sitting on the fence post near you. There's

224
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: certain things that occur that register in our brains that, oh,

225
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,560
Speaker 1: this is a living being I'm interacting with. So we

226
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of know what to expect. We know what's going

227
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 1: to happen to a degree because we we're used to

228
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 1: those living motions and movements. What happens, George, when you're

229
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: confronted with an object that looks like it should be

230
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 1: giving all those subtle signals, but it doesn't really right. So,

231
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, we've got this doll that has human features,

232
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 1: it has eyes. It's a lot of people would say

233
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 1: that thing staring at me, but you know it's probably

234
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 1: not blinking, it's not you know, it's it's not doing

235
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: any of the normal things that would register those subtle

236
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 1: signals for us to be able to interact with it

237
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: as we were another listing creature. And we take the

238
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: next leap when these things do exhibit some kind of

239
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 1: behavior because we know consciously they shouldn't. You know, we're

240
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 1: thinking that doll should not have just turned its head

241
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 1: to look at me. You shouldn't be capable of that.

242
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: So something is very very wrong here, and The fascinating

243
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: thing about this whole this whole idea is creepiness that

244
00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 1: these people studied is that, you know, from from our

245
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 1: early beginnings as humans, we sort of became program with

246
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 1: these concepts, these these things within our brain that help

247
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 1: us register living activity and so forth. Has a safety

248
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, so that we're aware when there's danger and

249
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: so forth. And now when in a world that is

250
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: presenting those with extremely different things that we have to

251
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: somehow comprehend and put into our daily interactions. David, back

252
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, I believe it was nineteen seventy,

253
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: directly the Warrens. We're telling the story about the student

254
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: nurse that was given the doll that they say was Annabelle,

255
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,880
Speaker 1: and that you know, went on and on and on.

256
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: The doll is still around in the Warrens Occult Museum

257
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: in Monroe, Louisiana, and they are dead now, of course,

258
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 1: both of them. Well what do you think of this thing?

259
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 1: Manual Connecticut? Rather it's in Connecticut. It's a you know,

260
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 1: it's definitely one of the most fascinating haunted doll stories,

261
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 1: simply because one has been around a long time too.

262
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 1: It has gotten so much attention too years. Yeah, the

263
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: move the movies you know that sprang off from the

264
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: conjuring that have been very successful, and you know, it's

265
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 1: it's hard really to voice an opinion on the entirety

266
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: of the question of whether or not the same as

267
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: haunted the Warrens believe that it was they did, or

268
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: that you know, um, they devoted their life to these

269
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: kinds of stories. They did, indeed, and you know, we

270
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 1: can certainly say that if if Robert the Doll is

271
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: the granddaddy, then Annabelle is probably the grandmother because it's

272
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 1: been a very solid story for a lot of years.

273
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: And the doll, now, which a lot of people don't

274
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 1: realize this because they're only familiar with the doll from

275
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 1: the movies, but the Annabell doll itself is a raggedy

276
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,200
Speaker 1: and doll, which I don't know about you, George, that's

277
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,679
Speaker 1: probably one of the least frightening. Yeah, they looked at

278
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: just kind of funny looking. Yeah, but it's it's actually

279
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: it's a raggedy and doll, and they change that for

280
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 1: the movie to the real creepy, you know, porcelain headed

281
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,199
Speaker 1: doll just front of fact. However, the Annabelle doll. It

282
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:33,919
Speaker 1: is kept in a secured, you know, blessed holy container

283
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 1: in the Warrens Museum, and no one's allowed to take

284
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 1: it out and touch it and so forth because of

285
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 1: the purported danger that surrounds it. And now, and I've

286
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: seen some dolls that are truly scary looking, and they're

287
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,880
Speaker 1: made that way on purpose, aren't they They are, Yeah,

288
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 1: they are in modern times, you know, because we've gotten

289
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,200
Speaker 1: we've gotten to the point where people are making dolls

290
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 1: to prep There's a whole range of what do they

291
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 1: call them, living dead dolls and other various things that

292
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,120
Speaker 1: are looking to appeal to horror fans and people who

293
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: are interested in the paranormal. Listen to more Coast to

294
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and

295
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more