WEBVTT - Instant Reaction: Supreme Court Backs Full Access to Abortion Pill

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. We have some breaking

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<v Speaker 1>news for you here.

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<v Speaker 2>The Supreme Court is upholding full access to mif a

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<v Speaker 2>pristone abortion pill. So this ruling came as the FDA

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<v Speaker 2>had imposed restrictions on the pill that the agency found

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<v Speaker 2>were unnecessary, and a court considered a Biden administration appeal

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<v Speaker 2>of that ruling. And the requirements were things like making

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<v Speaker 2>in person visits to their doctor in order to obtain

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<v Speaker 2>this pill. And it looks like the FDA won this case,

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court upholding full access to mif a pristone abortion pill.

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<v Speaker 2>The issue really was about did the FDA overdo it?

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<v Speaker 2>Did they expand when they shouldn't have. We are going

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<v Speaker 2>to be talking about that much more. June Grasso is

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<v Speaker 2>in studio joining us. No, you're ready, You're good, You're good, great, okay, great, Hi,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks for joining you ran here. We appreciate you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, thank you. Okay, So walk us through the importance.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, obviously, the importance is that MEPhI pristone is the

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<v Speaker 3>abortion drug that is most used excuse me, in this country,

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<v Speaker 3>So putting restrictions on it would mean problems for a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Of women in this country.

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<v Speaker 3>In this case, what the Supreme Court did, and this

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<v Speaker 3>is not a surprise decision actually, because after the oral

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<v Speaker 3>arguments in the case, it was pretty much telegraphed by

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<v Speaker 3>the justices that they were going to go off. They're

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<v Speaker 3>not talking about MIFHA pristone, they're not talking about abortion.

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<v Speaker 3>What they're talking about is standing, which is a procedural thing, really,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's a way sometimes for them to get out

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<v Speaker 3>of cases, out of deciding the merits of the case

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<v Speaker 3>by looking at the procedural elements.

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<v Speaker 1>So here they said that the doctors who.

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<v Speaker 3>Challenged it and the groups who challenged it didn't have

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<v Speaker 3>standing because they weren't hurt in any way. One way

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<v Speaker 3>they put it is like, you know, have a dog

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<v Speaker 3>in the fight. So the doctors, they were trying to

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<v Speaker 3>show that they had some injury. What was their injury

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<v Speaker 3>that it was very speculative, you know, if someone came

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<v Speaker 3>into an emergency room and needed an abortion, and it

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<v Speaker 3>just was ridiculous. So at that point the justices all

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<v Speaker 3>seemed to agree that they didn't have standing. So it's

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<v Speaker 3>an off ramp. They haven't decided anything really about abortion.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, but this, for all intents, this settles The issue

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<v Speaker 4>as it relates to this particular drug, is that the

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<v Speaker 4>case is that where we are right now. I guess.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure because I think we'll see challenges to

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<v Speaker 3>all kinds of abortion, you know, abortion pills and everything else,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, because the lobby is so strong against it.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm not sure this ends it. This ends this

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<v Speaker 3>particular challenge, but I don't know that it ends any

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<v Speaker 3>challenge to mif for pristone. You know, they still have

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<v Speaker 3>the base. They still have the base challenge, which is

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<v Speaker 3>that the FDA didn't have the authority to put the

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<v Speaker 3>for pristone on the market the way that it had

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<v Speaker 3>through the you know, to get it through the mail

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<v Speaker 3>and things. So I mean, I'm not sure they may

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<v Speaker 3>be able to find a different group that has standing

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, reassert the challenge, but you know, I'm trying.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know what group they would find.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I just sort of break this down in

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<v Speaker 2>Layman's terms, So the Biden administration made this drug more

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<v Speaker 2>widely available, then the doctor said.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't want this, we want more restrictions. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>what this is one doctor through like one doctor's group.

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<v Speaker 3>A doctor's group that is anti abortion, a conservative Christian

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<v Speaker 3>doctor's group said challenged it, and I mean the way

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<v Speaker 3>these things work is, you know, there are conservative organizations

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<v Speaker 3>and conservative legal groups that go out and look for

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<v Speaker 3>plaintiffs to find when they want to sue on something.

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<v Speaker 3>So this group in particular sued in this case. Some

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<v Speaker 3>states tried to intervene and the Supreme Court didn't allow that.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, states may be able to come forward

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<v Speaker 3>and say this, this hurts are What they say is

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<v Speaker 3>that this hurts our bottom line because we don't get

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<v Speaker 3>to have, you know, different healthcare choices.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there are all different ways.

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<v Speaker 2>Because in the lower court ordered the FDA to impose

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<v Speaker 2>restrictions on the pill that the agency was like, look,

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<v Speaker 2>this is not necessary and these are things like you

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<v Speaker 2>have to make an in person visit to your doctor

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<v Speaker 2>before you.

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<v Speaker 1>Get the pill.

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<v Speaker 2>That is what is no longer there, right Like, that

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<v Speaker 2>is what the Supreme Court ruled and said, nope, you

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<v Speaker 2>can have this free access.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, I haven't read the case.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if they sent this back to the

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<v Speaker 3>Fifth Circuit or not, so I don't have the case

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<v Speaker 3>in front of me. I'm sort of working in the

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<v Speaker 3>dark here.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if there's darkness better than us.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, good. But I don't know if they send it

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<v Speaker 3>back to the Fifth Circuit for more findings, because this

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<v Speaker 3>came up from a Texas judge and the Texas judge

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<v Speaker 3>had even more restrictions on it, and it went to

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<v Speaker 3>the Fifth Circuit, they dial back some of the restrictions,

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<v Speaker 3>and then it went to the Supreme Court. So when

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<v Speaker 3>I get my hands on the opinion, I may be

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<v Speaker 3>able to tell you more.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, does this affect individuals? How does this affect individual states?

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<v Speaker 2>And women in those states that no longer have access

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<v Speaker 2>to MEPhI princetone.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know it should individual states can do different things. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>so individual states are looking for a lot of different

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<v Speaker 3>ways to penalize women who leave the state for abortions. So,

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<v Speaker 3>but with MYFI pristone, because it comes through the mail,

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<v Speaker 3>it's much easier.

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<v Speaker 1>For women to get.

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<v Speaker 3>And in fact, some organizations have been stockpiling MIFA pristone

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<v Speaker 3>just in case anything happened with the Supreme Court. So

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<v Speaker 3>what they'll be able to do, I mean, I think

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<v Speaker 3>what this says is for right now, there's full access

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<v Speaker 3>to MIFA pristone. I mean, the states have been ingenious

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<v Speaker 3>in coming up with ways to try to stop abortion.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean you've seen the different ways that they've tried,

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<v Speaker 3>not only you know, to the point where women can't

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<v Speaker 3>even get emergency medical care if they need an abortion.

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<v Speaker 3>And that case is coming up, by the way, that

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<v Speaker 3>Idaho case is coming up. Whether or not if a

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<v Speaker 3>woman is not in fear of her life is not

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<v Speaker 3>on the line, but perhaps some other things are on

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<v Speaker 3>the line, perhaps her organs are in jeopardy or something

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<v Speaker 3>like that, whether they have to give her an abortion

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<v Speaker 3>if that's what is necessary, And that's coming up. That's

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<v Speaker 3>an Idaho case that was heard late in the term.

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<v Speaker 3>So there are ingenious ways to try to stop abortion.

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<v Speaker 3>And I don't know for sure, but in.

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<v Speaker 4>Reality, can can women in all fifty states get this

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<v Speaker 4>via the mail?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I mean there's no and I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 4>how is there practical ways you stop that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there's an act that hasn't been there's an act

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<v Speaker 3>that hasn't been the Comstock Act that hasn't been used

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<v Speaker 3>for I don't know how long, and that some conservatives

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<v Speaker 3>say that maybe the next avenue that you shouldn't send

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<v Speaker 3>certain things through the mail, so that could be another

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<v Speaker 3>way to attack it. As I said, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't want this to be the end of the attacks, right,

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<v Speaker 3>just think that it's just been shown that there's so

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<v Speaker 3>many ingenious ways to I mean, this is the law

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<v Speaker 3>you know you have we do you have one argument

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<v Speaker 3>and it turns out there are ten arguments. So but

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<v Speaker 3>this one. You know why it was easy for the

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<v Speaker 3>Supreme Court I'll say easy in quotes, because they found

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<v Speaker 3>an easy way to get out of it. They just said,

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<v Speaker 3>and they do this a lot, right, people will say standing,

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<v Speaker 3>what's standing?

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<v Speaker 1>Standing?

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<v Speaker 3>I had a professor that once said, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>ingeniousness of lawyers is that you can always find a

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<v Speaker 3>way to turn it into a procedural argument. And that's

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<v Speaker 3>what they do. And in this case, it was pretty

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<v Speaker 3>easy because you didn't see any injury to doctors. What

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<v Speaker 3>injury do they have?

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<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned the Idaho case that's Moyle versus the

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<v Speaker 2>US right and that issue. It seems like, does the

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<v Speaker 2>federal law permit er doctors to perform abortions to preserve

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<v Speaker 2>a woman's health even if stays outlawed that procedure? So

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<v Speaker 2>this is to your point of like, can they save

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<v Speaker 2>the woman or can they help the woman even if

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<v Speaker 2>the state outlaws abortion altogether.

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<v Speaker 3>So Idaho has a law that allows abortions if the

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<v Speaker 3>woman's life is in jeopardy. The Biden administration came in

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<v Speaker 3>and said no, because you're taking money from the federal government, right,

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<v Speaker 3>we have the right to tell you that you have

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<v Speaker 3>to also treat women who come to an emergency room.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's not that their life is in jeopardy, but

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<v Speaker 3>something else is in jeopardy.

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<v Speaker 1>Their organs are in jeopardy. I mean different kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I'm not a doctor, so I thank god I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not a doctor, so I don't know what, but different

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<v Speaker 3>kinds of things. And you have to treat that woman

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<v Speaker 3>and give her an abortion, even if her life isn't

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<v Speaker 3>in jeopardy. So that's the issue, and that case.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there was a little more.

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't tell you how that case is going to

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<v Speaker 3>come out because it wasn't as clear some of these cases.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we say, oh, we don't know what they're

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<v Speaker 3>going to decide, but it's pretty clear what the going

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<v Speaker 3>to decide. I don't know about the Idaho case how

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<v Speaker 3>that's going to come down.

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<v Speaker 4>So this particular ruling here is is it feels, just

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<v Speaker 4>reading on some of the initial reporting, that it's kind

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<v Speaker 4>of a technical lawyer type thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeap procede, That's what I said.

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<v Speaker 4>So, I mean it sounds like, as you mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 4>that they can various scripts, can come back and approach

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<v Speaker 4>this issue from other angles.

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<v Speaker 3>Perhaps, as I said, it's ingenious the number of ways.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's sort of like if you remember affirmative action,

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<v Speaker 3>and for many, many years affirmative action, it kept on

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<v Speaker 3>getting you know, the protests to it or the challenges

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<v Speaker 3>to it kept on getting rejected. And then there was

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<v Speaker 3>this man who has who has students for fair admissions,

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<v Speaker 3>and he kept fighting and fighting and fighting and waited

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<v Speaker 3>until the Supreme Court turned more conservative, and then all

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<v Speaker 3>of a sudden, the Supreme Courts you know, reversed itself

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<v Speaker 3>and said, no, you know, we can't have affirmative actions.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean, that's what I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>They have very well funded groups that are fighting abortion

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<v Speaker 3>on every level, so I don't, you know, rule out

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that there'll be other challenges to it.

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<v Speaker 5>All.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Hey, June, thank you so much. She literally booked

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<v Speaker 1>in here. We really appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>No, sorry, thank you, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. Jin Gretso Bloomberg joining us there.

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<v Speaker 2>We all want to go to Madelein Meckelberg. She's a

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg legal reporter. She also joins us on this news

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<v Speaker 2>And remember, let's just recap here for a moment. The

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court has ruled that there will be full access

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<v Speaker 2>to mif A pristone abortion pill. Madeline, can you walk

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<v Speaker 2>us through how this case unfolded?

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<v Speaker 5>Hi, thanks for having me on to talk about this case. So,

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<v Speaker 5>the Supreme Court this morning they overturned a decision from

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<v Speaker 5>a federal appeals court that would have prevented mail order

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<v Speaker 5>prescriptions for MIFA pristone. And this is the case that

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<v Speaker 5>started in Texas.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a.

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<v Speaker 5>Conservative group they challenged access to the abortion pill, and

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<v Speaker 5>we're seeking to have the original FDA approved of the

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<v Speaker 5>pill rolled back. As the case moved through the courts,

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<v Speaker 5>the Federal Appeals Court in New Orleans, that's the Fifth Circuit,

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<v Speaker 5>they basically said they can't go back enough in time

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<v Speaker 5>and undo the original FDA approval, but what they can

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<v Speaker 5>do is turn back some of the more recent decisions

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<v Speaker 5>which would have allowed the pill to be sent through

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<v Speaker 5>the mail and used in a wider number of abortions.

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<v Speaker 5>What the Supreme Court did today was say full access

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<v Speaker 5>has to be preserved.

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<v Speaker 4>So is this the final word for myth of pristone

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<v Speaker 4>and its availability in this country or is it still

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<v Speaker 4>perhaps at risk of some regulation.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think we're still going to see some action

0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.559
<v Speaker 5>on this. This case was on kind of a preliminary

0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 5>basis at this point, I think we could see it

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.679
<v Speaker 5>come back up again. And what the Supreme Court did

0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.679
<v Speaker 5>today was not rule on the merits of the FDA's

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.120
<v Speaker 5>decision to approve myth of pristone. They blocked this lawsuit

0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.040
<v Speaker 5>on standing. So they basically said that the individuals that

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<v Speaker 5>brought the challenge they didn't actually have the right to

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<v Speaker 5>sue because they couldn't demonstrate that the FDA's actions harmed

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.439
<v Speaker 5>them directly because federal law protects doctors from providing abortions

0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.199
<v Speaker 5>if they have moral objections. So they said these people

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.679
<v Speaker 5>can't sue. But that does mean that there may be

0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:19.959
<v Speaker 5>is a pathway for others to bring a lawsuit if

0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.360
<v Speaker 5>they wanted to challenge the same thing.

0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 2>When does the Supreme Court term end? And what are

0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.559
<v Speaker 2>some other big ones that our audience for Boomberg Intelligence

0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Radio will be interested in.

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<v Speaker 5>That's a great question. I know that we're waiting for

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 5>at least one other abortion decision as it relates to

0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 5>emergency room access in Idaho. There are a couple of

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.640
<v Speaker 5>big Trump cases on the docket, so we've got a

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.000
<v Speaker 5>couple of weeks left where we're going to expect to

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<v Speaker 5>see some decisions, and we'll be keeping an eye.

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<v Speaker 4>Out, Madlin. How unexpected was this ruling given the makeup

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:51.760
<v Speaker 4>of the court today.

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.560
<v Speaker 5>I think it's definitely if you're looking just at the makeup,

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 5>this is a surprising decision given what we know about

0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.199
<v Speaker 5>this court that is the same one that overturned Roe v.

0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Wade.

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<v Speaker 5>But when there was a hearing on this case in March,

0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.199
<v Speaker 5>we definitely got a sense from justices that they were

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 5>skeptical about the standing issue that was raised in this lawsuit.

0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 5>So while broadly speaking, this is kind of surprising for

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 5>this court based on this case specifically and what we

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.200
<v Speaker 5>heard from justices previously, it's in line.

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.920
<v Speaker 2>We were talking to June about the other abortion case

0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.240
<v Speaker 2>that's coming to the fore as well, Moile versus the US,

0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 2>and that really centers around Idaho's abortion van considering whether

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.680
<v Speaker 2>a federal law that requires hospitals to provide stabilizing emergency

0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 2>care Trump's any abortion restrictions. Does this give us any

0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>roadmap for that case.

0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 5>It's hard to say. There are really different questions. I

0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 5>think that what we know is that the Court is

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.440
<v Speaker 5>considering any abortion question that comes before it pretty carefully.

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 5>In light of this road decision that sought to return

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 5>things to the state. These are two examples where we're

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.760
<v Speaker 5>seeing them having to deal with the consequences of that

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.679
<v Speaker 5>decision and them weighing in on these regulations. They're kind

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.319
<v Speaker 5>of different issues, but I think that we can expect

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 5>to see maybe some nuanced perspectives from the court on this.

0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 4>All right, madam, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 4>Madelin Meckelburgh, legal reporter for Bloomberg News. She's based in Austin, Texas,

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 4>and it's just you know, when you get a piece

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 4>of news like this coming across it maybe is not

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 4>in our typical remit. We have some experts literally around

0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 4>the corner in June Grass, so literally a phone call

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 4>away in Madeleine Meckelburg to help us understand what which.

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<v Speaker 1>We very much appreciate.

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.840
<v Speaker 4>Which we very much appreciate, makes it sound a lot smarter.