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Speaker 1: All right, hey everybody, it's me and you found it again.

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Speaker 1: This is Onward with Rosie O'Donnell and I of course

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Speaker 1: am Shaka Khan. I feel for you. I think I

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Speaker 1: love you. I don't know why I do that all

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Speaker 1: the time. It really amuses only me. Anyway, we have

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Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful show for you Lena Wait this year,

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Speaker 1: and she is just amazing and everything she does. We

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Speaker 1: have a wonderful conversation about growing up and people who

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Speaker 1: resembled us on TV kind of mask presenting tomboyish girl

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Speaker 1: boys or boy girls. You know, I don't know. My

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Speaker 1: daughter would claim that's non binary. They are ten years old.

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Speaker 1: And they asked me when we were in therapy last

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Speaker 1: week if I would get the work they tattooed on

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Speaker 1: my inner wrists so that I would always see it

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Speaker 1: and always get it right. And I think I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do that for Dakota. I think that Dakota really

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Speaker 1: wants me to do it right. And I'm really trying,

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Speaker 1: and it's tough. I was at Kathy Griffin's wonderful Salon

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Speaker 1: party honoring the lunch honoring Dylan mulvaney and it's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful afternoon. She throws a great salon party, and there

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Speaker 1: are rules, and Kathy's very strict about the rules, but

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Speaker 1: it all works out in the end and had a

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Speaker 1: great time. And two of the other women there were

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Speaker 1: mothers had children who are also They them pronouns, and

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Speaker 1: we all were talking about how, over sixty, how hard

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Speaker 1: it is to change the way that you perceive and

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Speaker 1: the pronouns that you use for your own kid. It's

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Speaker 1: not done at listen, I understand fully the need to

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Speaker 1: have your pronouns be correct, and believe me, I'm trying,

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Speaker 1: but my little ten year old is teaching me so anyway,

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Speaker 1: Lena and I talk about that about life, about about

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Speaker 1: just being who you are, and how that is so

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Speaker 1: valuable in today's society. Authenticity, I think is the only

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Speaker 1: thing that's worth its weight in gold. So Lena, today,

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Speaker 1: right now, don't go away. Well, hello, Lena, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm so good, Rosie O'Donnell. I'll have to be talked

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was really so fascinated by everything I

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Speaker 1: learned about you while I was preparing for this interview.

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Speaker 1: Right first of all, that I'm twenty two years older.

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Speaker 2: Than you, okay, got its.

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Speaker 1: Sting to me, you know, like I look at you

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Speaker 1: like the next generation. Like I tried to imagine who

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Speaker 1: it was that you were looking to in the public

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Speaker 1: sphere that you thought, well, that's kind of like me.

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Speaker 1: Was there anyone at that point?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think the reason why this is

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Speaker 3: like so full circle is because I watched you every

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Speaker 3: day at three o'clock in Chicago. I remember one time

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Speaker 3: when you were interviewing when Whitney finally came back.

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Speaker 2: After she missed the show, she was duper Cinderella.

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Speaker 3: I had to walk. It took me like fifteen minutes

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Speaker 3: to get home. Bob power walked so school that out

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Speaker 3: of two forty five, I had to get home. Because

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Speaker 3: that's the thing. Back, You couldn't t bow.

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Speaker 2: You can record, no such you had exactly.

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Speaker 3: So I was like power walking home to watch her

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Speaker 3: on the show with you, and it was a great episode,

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Speaker 3: and you had a funny bit about there being a

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Speaker 3: security camera outside of her trailer to make sure she

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Speaker 3: didn't leave, and you were like, I paid the security

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Speaker 3: guard one hundred bucks to make.

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Speaker 2: Sure she needs anything exactly.

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Speaker 3: So you know, so I was watching you and there's

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Speaker 3: the thing about I think queer folk is that even

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Speaker 3: if someone doesn't say they're queer, there's a knowing yes,

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Speaker 3: And so I agree, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like, it's just.

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Speaker 3: Really been amazing, I think for me to come up

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Speaker 3: and to be I never thought I would be on television.

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Speaker 2: That's the other thing. Ilways wanted to be a television writer.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's from the beginning. You didn't want to perform.

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Speaker 3: From the beginning, I want your right half power comedy

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Speaker 3: and I never dreamed about winning an Emmy for that.

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Speaker 3: That wasn't the goal. I just wanted to be good,

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Speaker 3: and so I think I didn't realize and watching you,

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Speaker 3: you know, even though definitely Whoopy as a blueprint, even

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Speaker 3: though she's not queer, she's a person who the queer

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Speaker 3: community definitely feels is like someone who's.

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Speaker 1: Totally she's she's queer adjacent. If anything, she's totally in

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Speaker 1: the mix of LBGTQYA.

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Speaker 3: You know, absolutely, she's like such a you know, a

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Speaker 3: wonderful ally but you know, like I would see a

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Speaker 3: queen Latifa, you know, and said that yes, and yes

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Speaker 3: I would see you know Ellen as well on TV.

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Speaker 3: And Ellen reached out, you know, after seeing a master

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Speaker 3: of note, which I was grateful for.

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Speaker 2: It's just like there are.

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Speaker 3: People that I would look at and I would see

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Speaker 3: I remember Tasha on The L Word, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 2: It took just a while to get a black girl

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Speaker 2: up there.

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Speaker 3: But yes, that's why I was such a full circle

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Speaker 3: moment for me to come back and be on the

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Speaker 3: return of The L Word and to look at Shane

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Speaker 3: and like us to have a cool scene and.

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Speaker 1: Same with me. Yeah, yes, right, I had the same

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Speaker 1: thing with The L Word that when it was first out.

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Speaker 1: I remember I was a little nervous about who's going

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Speaker 1: to know? And did people know? You know, you had

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Speaker 1: to almost watch it in secret, you know, like.

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Speaker 2: I watched it in secret for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be on it then was really a

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Speaker 1: full circle moment for me to go in there and go, God,

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Speaker 1: how far I have come in my own self acceptance

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Speaker 1: and perhaps cultural acceptance of queerness in a manner that

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Speaker 1: was not evident when I was a kid growing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have any kind of gay lesbian icon marker

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Speaker 1: for me, you know, being that I'm twenty two years

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Speaker 1: older than you. I was trying to think as I

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Speaker 1: was reading about you, who it was. And I think

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Speaker 1: the first really mask presenting lesbian that was a superstar

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Speaker 1: was Katie.

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Speaker 2: Oh Wow, Katy Lang. And there's also Tracy Chatman.

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Speaker 1: Tracy, Yes, for sure, for sure, she came on my show.

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Speaker 1: I was so overwhelmed by her smile and her physical

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Speaker 1: beauty that I like, she's so shy and so freaking adorable,

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Speaker 1: like I guess, and such an artist that I was

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Speaker 1: completely flirting with her, even though I didn't at the time.

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Speaker 1: If you would have said, were you flirting with Tracy,

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Speaker 1: I would have been like, no, not me, of course not,

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Speaker 1: but yes, I definitely was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean obviously like I was Walker being a you know,

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Speaker 3: obviously on the color.

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Speaker 2: Purple course, So there's definitely some touch points.

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Speaker 3: But I think for me growing up and me being

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Speaker 3: a product of all that, I think by the time

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Speaker 3: I appeared on Master of None and ASA had met me,

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Speaker 3: I was so comfortable in my own skin because I

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Speaker 3: was also living in Los Angeles, yes, and I was

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Speaker 3: coming into my own and I just was very comfortable

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Speaker 3: in my skin. And I remember thinking, if I ever

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Speaker 3: did become a public person, I would not have to

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Speaker 3: come out to the public, because I would be out period, right,

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Speaker 3: And I didn't think about.

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Speaker 2: The significance of that.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how. I want some historians who may

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Speaker 3: know better than I. But I did not come out

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Speaker 3: publicly because I was just out. I was a lesbian

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Speaker 3: on the show. I was a lesbian in real life,

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Speaker 3: and I think that was new for people. They were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: so you're just going to be gay and open about it,

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Speaker 3: and I was like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, and thank god, thank god all the people

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Speaker 1: who came before you and encouraged you to live in

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Speaker 1: your truth. Yes, in the twenty two years of difference

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Speaker 1: between us, so much had changed.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, but you're very much a part of that for me.

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Speaker 3: So that's why I think it's such a full circle moment.

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Speaker 3: I remember, I think we met for the first time

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Speaker 3: at the Netflix special when we were backstage and I

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Speaker 3: was there introduced Wanda Sykes. Was also a really wonderful moment.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: You were kind enough to let me hang in your

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Speaker 3: green room, which was a really big moment for me.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to geek out and make it weird,

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Speaker 3: but I was just like, this is insane, like what

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Speaker 3: so like? And then also, I love you, know Mary

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Speaker 3: Tyler Moore. And I'm so glad you watched the documentary.

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Speaker 3: It's just there's so many touch points. So I'm just

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Speaker 3: really honored to be talking to you. You know, it

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Speaker 3: took me, took me a beat to get here.

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Speaker 1: But well, thank you, Lenna. It's very mutual. I have

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Speaker 1: to say, I look at you, I look at the

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Speaker 1: work you've done. I look at the movies you're a

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Speaker 1: part of. I anticipated in the Mary Charla Moore one

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Speaker 1: and and I loved the finished product. I loved it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: And I was so thrilled to see that you had

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Speaker 1: that much interest in Mary Tyler Moore. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just didn't think to myself, wow,

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Speaker 1: Lena Waite and Mary Chyla Moore, that that's that's a match.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like that. It wasn't on my Bigo card.

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Speaker 1: But how how did she influence you? How did she

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Speaker 1: influence you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm very grateful that because I'm a student of television,

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Speaker 3: and specifically half hour television, because that's what I love.

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Speaker 2: Even though I write.

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Speaker 3: You know, people know my drama, they know the Shy

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Speaker 3: as well, but you know, writing twenties and getting a

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Speaker 3: chance to work on Master of None. Half hour is

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Speaker 3: really my sweet spot. So I got to study the greats,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I watched All in the Family because

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Speaker 3: my grandmother watching Old tval On the Family, Jefferson's Good Times.

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Speaker 3: I was a young kid watching those shows. But then

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Speaker 3: also I want to watch shows that were current to me.

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Speaker 3: So I wanted to watch a different world, Martin Living Single,

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Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. But it was a great

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Speaker 3: education to see to see my shows that are half

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Speaker 3: hours that were working and I enjoyed, but then also

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Speaker 3: to be educated by the Dick Van Dyke Show and

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Speaker 3: Mary Tyler Moore show.

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Speaker 2: Also loved Maud. Also big fan of Rota, really loved

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Speaker 2: Vali Harper makes she rest in Pees.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we have the same exact loves of half hours.

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Speaker 1: I was to me the goal of life was to

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Speaker 1: be in a sitcom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you were all give me a break. Then you

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Speaker 3: do give me a break, that's right. So which I

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Speaker 3: love Nel Carter.

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Speaker 1: And at the time when when Nell was very unwell

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Speaker 1: and very unhappy to be there, and it was my

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Speaker 1: first thing in showbiz, so like I walked on so

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Speaker 1: new and excited to be on the lot to do

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Speaker 1: this is what I always wanted to do, and she

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Speaker 1: was such in a bad place, you know. And it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because I had seen her and kind of geeked

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Speaker 1: out from ain't misbehavior. Wow, you know, I had seen

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Speaker 1: her on Broadway and was blown away by her, and

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Speaker 1: so it was so crushing in some ways that you know,

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Speaker 1: it was the last season, she was not in a

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Speaker 1: good place in her private life, and it just it

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Speaker 1: crushed me a little bit, just at the start of

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Speaker 1: my career.

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Speaker 3: No, I get that, and I think there's something about

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Speaker 3: that story, because we do. There's something about show business,

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Speaker 3: right that draws us to it. Yeah, and that's its job,

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Speaker 3: is to razzle dazzle us. And then we get in

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Speaker 3: there and it's like going you know, backstage at the

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Speaker 3: you know, at the amusement park, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: You go back there and you see, you know, Mickey

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Speaker 3: ain't got his hat on, you know, and so it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is not what I thought.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's the weird thing.

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Speaker 3: But people that don't work in the business and don't

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Speaker 3: see how the sausage is made.

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Speaker 2: For them, it's just a beautiful entree.

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Speaker 3: And for us, it's like you had no idea what

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Speaker 3: it took to put that on the plate exactly right,

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Speaker 3: and thinking about Neil Carter as the icon that she is,

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Speaker 3: it's like, you know, to me, she's you know, a

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Speaker 3: woman that you know, probably was it also felt like

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Speaker 3: an unsung hero and probably didn't get some opportunities that

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Speaker 3: she would have wanted, didn't get to play you know,

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Speaker 3: the sollly romantic interest, still trying to step out of

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Speaker 3: certain stereotypes that people would put you know, women that

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Speaker 3: looked like her in.

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Speaker 1: Yes, totally true.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's really how I came to understand

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Speaker 3: about the importance of the Mary Tyler Moore Show. And

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Speaker 3: I will say this initially because when I was watching comedy,

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Speaker 3: it was very fast, you know, Will and Grace and

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Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff where it's like, yeah, they're

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Speaker 3: putting like five jokes in a minute, and Marry Tyler Mooreshaw.

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Speaker 3: One of its most iconic episodes is Chuckles Bice the dust.

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Speaker 3: You have to wait until the end of the episode

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Speaker 3: to get the biggest leave. And so what I was

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Speaker 3: learning about from that the writers was just about pacing

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Speaker 3: patience character and how you never sell a character down

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Speaker 3: the river for a joke, and how to make something

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Speaker 3: timeless and so and that was what fascinated me first.

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Speaker 3: And then of course I'm a human, as Oaac was

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Speaker 3: Rahi would say, so of course I'm looking at Mary

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Speaker 3: telling Moore and I'm just as enthralled by her and like,

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Speaker 3: who was this person?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: And then I read her memoir after all when I

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Speaker 3: was like like end of like high school, and just

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Speaker 3: because I was fascinated, and her memoir really blew me away,

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Speaker 3: learning about her alcoholic yes, learning about the loss she

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Speaker 3: had in her life, and learning about how she could

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Speaker 3: not have been more opposite from the character she was

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Speaker 3: playing when she was playing them, you know, and particularly

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Speaker 3: Mary Richards where she was a married woman that entire time,

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Speaker 3: and Grant Tinker was, you know, creating this machine that

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Speaker 3: was MTM, you know, productions that would pump out Saint elsewhere,

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Speaker 3: and obviously all the spin offs of Mary Tyler Moore

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Speaker 3: Show as well as Mary Tyler Moore Show itself, and

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Speaker 3: so it was just very fascinating. And then until she

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Speaker 3: later in her life when she divorced Grant Tinker and

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Speaker 3: obviously married her amazing widower, doctor Robert Levine before but

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Speaker 3: also I love that window post Grant Tinker, Robert Levine.

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Speaker 3: She actually gets to live like Mary Richards in her

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Speaker 3: forties in New York City, being single, you know, having

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Speaker 3: that experience and so and I think that's when she

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Speaker 3: blossomed the most because she kind of got a chance

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Speaker 3: to be that independent woman she played so well on television.

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Speaker 3: So that that's also what the fascination is is about.

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Speaker 3: I'm really into persona versus the person, and I think you.

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Speaker 2: Know a whole lot about that.

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Speaker 1: I certainly do.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, when you're on every Day, there was

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Speaker 3: a persona about Romeo Donald.

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Speaker 2: It was like, oh, this she is.

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Speaker 3: And every time with women, it's like they want us

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Speaker 3: to be their mother. They want us to be kind,

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Speaker 3: they want us to smile, they want us to coddle them.

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Speaker 3: So it's like, why is that expected of us as women?

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Speaker 3: And then when you're queer woman and you have maybe

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Speaker 3: more masculine energy, you're not deemed to be ladylike, which

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Speaker 3: means you're not likabule. And there's this desire for women

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Speaker 3: to be liked that men don't have to deal with totally.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's something as society we have to

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Speaker 3: reckon with. And that's all with the center of the

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Speaker 3: documentary of being Mary telling Moore. So that's a very

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Speaker 3: long winded answer, but.

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Speaker 1: No, but it's so fascinating to me. You know, I

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Speaker 1: used to watch it all the time. And then when

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Speaker 1: I was a stand up, a young stand up, it

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Speaker 1: was on three times in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: It was on after Linda Ellerby from like one o'clock

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Speaker 1: to three thirty or something, And so I would come

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Speaker 1: home from waiting to get on stage at Catch or

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Speaker 1: the Improv, and I'd come to my little apartment in

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Speaker 1: Queen's and I'd write all of the question trivia questions

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Speaker 1: in a notebook that I had kept since I was little.

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Speaker 1: When it was on once a week, and I had

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Speaker 1: written all these questions, like what's the number of Mary's

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Speaker 1: apartment when it's the number of roters apartment, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: really interesting detailed facts. And when I first met her,

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Speaker 1: she came on the show and she was in her

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Speaker 1: dressing room and I knocked and came in and she said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you're saying hello. On David Letterman.

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Speaker 1: They don't say hello, they just throw you out there.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, not only am I going to say hello?

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Speaker 1: I'm going to show you my trivia book from nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy five with two thousand Mary Tarla Moore questions in it.

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Speaker 2: Was she like mind blown?

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Speaker 1: It blew her mind. It changed the way that we

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Speaker 1: were able to relate to each other because she really

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Speaker 1: knew that I was a for real legit fan, sort

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Speaker 1: of like my thing was Streisand you know that she

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Speaker 1: could have been so annoyed by the You know, in

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Speaker 1: some ways I could see, as an entertainer of that

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Speaker 1: legendary status that here comes this new kid, and all

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Speaker 1: she wants to do is meet you. And then when

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Speaker 1: she meets me. She even wrote me a letter and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you meet me, the illusion is over.

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Speaker 1: And I said, not for me, not for me, And

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Speaker 1: it hasn't. It hasn't changed anything. And it just made

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Speaker 1: like my knowledge of the truth of manifesting yes, really

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Speaker 1: come to the forefront. Because I would go to sleep

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Speaker 1: at night and I would I wonder where she is.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if she's at dinner in La, I wonder

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Speaker 1: Whitney Easton. Yes, did you ever get to meet her?

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Speaker 2: No? I did not.

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Speaker 3: I did not, but I am grateful I got to

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Speaker 3: see her in concert. I got to see her in concert,

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Speaker 3: so I'm very grateful for that. My mother made sure

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Speaker 3: that happened. She came for her My Love as Your

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Speaker 3: Love tour. She started it in Chicago. Wow, for no reason.

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Speaker 2: At although, of course I believe the reason is because

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Speaker 2: I was there.

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Speaker 3: But but but but I remember she was on Oprah.

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Speaker 2: You know how everybody had to go through you know,

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Speaker 2: you gotta go through.

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Speaker 1: The Oprah exactly.

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Speaker 2: Ring of course she was, and she had.

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Speaker 3: Been on She'd done Oprah many times, but she was

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Speaker 3: there on Oprah to talk about like I'm here, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna be performing, you know, and and Oprah asked her

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Speaker 3: why Chicago? Why are you starting this in Chicago? And

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Speaker 3: I remember, of course I'm watching, like with baited breath,

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Speaker 3: like yeah, why she was like, it's just the first

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Speaker 3: stop of the tour.

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Speaker 2: She left, there's no significance, No, I Love Whitney was.

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Speaker 3: Like, I'm not going to give you some The tour

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00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 3: manager said we're starting in Chicago exactly. So of course

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Speaker 3: for me and my family, you know, it was a

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Speaker 3: big deal. And they were like, oh, well, Lena has

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Speaker 3: to be in the building and I'll never forget it,

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Speaker 3: you know, to watch her and it was the first stop.

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Speaker 3: So she was very like happy to be out there.

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Speaker 3: She was like she was like, okay, we're back at it,

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Speaker 3: back on the road again. So I know that's why

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Speaker 3: I think I related to you so much. And I

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Speaker 3: love Streisand are you kidding? Like I know, you know

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Speaker 3: I'm not as like you know ray Man, but I

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Speaker 3: know I'm a The reason why I love Streisan is

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Speaker 3: because streisand you know, she tapped Whitney.

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Speaker 2: You know, she said like she's she's got something.

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Speaker 3: And I remember there's footage because I know I've seen

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Speaker 3: a lot of fusion Whitning uston of her on Entertainment

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00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,600
Speaker 3: tonight and Barbara Streisan has was having something at her

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Speaker 3: home or something and she was doing something and Whitney

380
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Speaker 3: was invited and she was out there like being interviewed

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Speaker 3: and it was like, look, I'm grateful to be here.

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Speaker 3: And it was very much like Whitney was like, Barbara

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Speaker 3: has invited me, and I'm grateful.

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Speaker 1: I am thankful for that exactly.

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Speaker 3: Listen to her for sure, and so I think for me,

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Speaker 3: it's like we're part of a sorority almost.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's like those singers are really important.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the thing I think I had to

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Speaker 3: wrap my brain around. I know you got to wrap

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Speaker 3: your brain around it too. Like we're people that have

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Speaker 3: obsessed over other people in the public eye totally, and

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Speaker 3: then now to meet people that see us in that way,

393
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Speaker 3: it's a very interesting thing. And I think that's why

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Speaker 3: I was able to do I've done, you know, I've

395
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Speaker 3: been a part of a documentary about Dick Gregory, to

396
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Speaker 3: be a part of obviously Mary tellingmore, a document about

397
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Speaker 3: this gentleman named.

398
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Speaker 2: Ellis Haslib who had a show called Soul.

399
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Speaker 3: He was a queer black man and he had I

400
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Speaker 3: got a chance to help get that on HBO Max.

401
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Speaker 3: And so I think I'm very fascinated by people who

402
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Speaker 3: have impact on a lot of people, right and what

403
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 3: that means. And I think I'm a big believer and

404
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 3: that we're all connected. And so when I would see

405
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 3: you talking about TV shows and your love for this

406
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 3: and that, I saw myself. I was like, and I

407
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 3: saw myself in more ways than one, not just at

408
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Speaker 3: our random you know. And so and I just thought, huh,

409
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 3: what your presence on television did was in some way

410
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Speaker 3: because I did not want necessarily to be on TV,

411
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Speaker 3: but it said there's a place for me in this world.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's so beautiful, Lena.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know you. For you, it's like a job.

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Speaker 3: You're going every day, the different desks, ibody, doing that

415
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 3: whole thing. It's like, it's just it's it's people sometimes

416
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Speaker 3: don't know the significance of just their presence. Yes, And

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00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 3: I now have an understanding of it. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's why when people meet us, I know, you feel

419
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 3: that pressure. It's like we want them to walk away

420
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Speaker 3: feeling good, Yes, because we don't want them to feel like, oh,

421
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Speaker 3: this person who I wondered what she was doing every

422
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Speaker 3: night before I went to sleep, you know, made me

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Speaker 3: feel And I don't know if people out there understand

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Speaker 3: the weight that comes with that.

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Speaker 1: It's a big, big burden in many ways. And you know,

426
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Speaker 1: people say, why did you leave your show at the

427
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 1: height of its success. Why I couldn't take it anymore.

428
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Speaker 1: I couldn't take the lack of humanity that happened. Like

429
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Speaker 1: I needed to get off the airplane. Wow, get a

430
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 1: parachute and get back down to Earth, hang out with

431
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: my family for a few years, not do anything. Paint,

432
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Speaker 1: absorb art that ingest art that I that I love

433
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Speaker 1: and it took that long, like four or five years

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Speaker 1: for me to get back into just being me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I get it, and you know,

436
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 3: and I ain't got to bring this up, but I

437
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 3: remember when you came back to.

438
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 2: TV, you know, and it was a big deal. Yeah,

439
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 2: it was a big.

440
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 3: Deal and you were no longer sitting at a desk

441
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 3: by yourself, but it was such a big thing to.

442
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 2: Have you back in our living rooms again.

443
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think what happened was what happened again

444
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: humanity had disappointed you, Yes, and you were like, I

445
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 3: can't be in front of y'all smile and acting like

446
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 3: everything's okay, and.

447
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: I can't ignore what's happening in the world because where

448
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 1: women and the man who was running the show thought

449
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: that women should talk about things that women don't talk about.

450
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: So I would say, in the middle of where it wore,

451
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: can we not discuss, you know, or the Bill Cosby thing. No,

452
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: we can't discuss the Bill Cosby thing. We can't. There

453
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: were so many landmines of what you couldn't couldn't say

454
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: that for me, it was the non fit, you know.

455
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 3: But it's so interesting because who do we talk about

456
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 3: today in turns of influences with the goverg who follows you,

457
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, who had to get suspended

458
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: for two weeks. It's just like you know, and look,

459
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: I've gotten my licks as well because I've understand. I

460
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 3: had to understand that I'm an artist that does not coddle.

461
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: I confront correct, you can't.

462
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 3: But I'm a woman, even though I'm like, They're like,

463
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 3: but you're a woman, even though your mask, you're a lesbian,

464
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 3: You're a woman. You're supposed to give us a happy ending, right,

465
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: supposed to survive. Yes, but this is in the history

466
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 3: of Rome and Juliet, Bonnie and Clyde. But being born

467
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 3: black and woman and queer, I am born to be defiant.

468
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: Correct, That was in our DNA is there right? When

469
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: you are other in a society and you know for

470
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: you right away to be born into black skin and

471
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: to have that be the world through which you are experiencing,

472
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: it's an It's a completely different thing. And the same

473
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: way that queerness is not equal and you know, but

474
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: but the difference to feel other, to feel other in

475
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: our society. We'll be right back with Lena after this.

476
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that for Whitney that the whole gay

477
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: thing was part of her demise? Do you think if

478
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: she had been able to say, I'm with Robin, that's it,

479
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: leave me alone and then get out there and sing

480
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: like you know, do you think that that played a

481
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: big part in her early ending?

482
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 3: You know, it's so fascinating because I I've thought about obviously,

483
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: you know, thought about her and her passing a lot,

484
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: and I ruminated.

485
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: On a ton.

486
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 3: What I believe is that in order to be an icon,

487
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: there are things you have to leave behind, true, and

488
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 3: I think there are pieces of yourself that you don't

489
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: get to have. And I think the biggest choice that

490
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 3: she had to make is do I be an icon

491
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 3: or do I be myself?

492
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: And I don't think she could have been both at

493
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: that time.

494
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: At that time in society, I agree.

495
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: At that time, and so I think that she chose

496
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: in a way, she almost sacrificed herself yes for others. Yes,

497
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: because her presence in the world impacted and continues to

498
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: impact so many people, regardless of her sexual orientation. Because

499
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 3: she never said it, I don't necessarily adopt it, even

500
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: though I do.

501
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: I mean I read Robin's book.

502
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 3: I trust everything, you know, right, he said, And so

503
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 3: I just believe that she was a person that had to.

504
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: Be so many things to so many people.

505
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: So many things to so many people.

506
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that is what you're talking is

507
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 3: that burden. It's that weight that everybody can't it's hard

508
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: to carry it. And I think it shows up in

509
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: a lot of different ways. And I think what it was.

510
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: We look out.

511
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 3: It's so interesting because I'm looking at you know, say

512
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 3: a little nas X, or I'm looking at right, you know,

513
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: you know Billy Porter, Yes, exactly. Even though Billy Porter

514
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: has been around.

515
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: Yes he has. We did our first bird Way show together,

516
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: me and him.

517
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I love Billy. I'm doing a ball

518
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: with Billy.

519
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: He is fantastic, really a unique individual and always has been.

520
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, she's amazing. Actually, I a picture of

521
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 3: me Billy, Lil naz X Cynthia Rivo at the Grammys

522
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: Wow a year ago.

523
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: So there was as good.

524
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: Little Naz came over to say hello, and Billy was

525
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: over there and we were like, we gotta capture.

526
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: Gotta get a picture of this, Gotta get a picture

527
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: of this.

528
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: It's the gayest, blackest photo that ever exists.

529
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: To and good for you, you know.

530
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 3: But what I look at and even I'm sure little

531
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 3: Naz is looking at people coming up behind him, what

532
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: happens is with time, progress.

533
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 2: Is inevitable, yes, And so I love that And.

534
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: Even talking to Wanda, you know, at the special were

535
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: I think Wanda looks at me and it's just like

536
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: what you know, I get to chat with Queen Latifa

537
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: and it's a really I love that everybody can see

538
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: that I am a beneficiary. I'm a descendant, yes of

539
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: you all, and what I'm seeing are descendants of mind.

540
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: And so it's like and then now there's like gonna

541
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: be kids, there's this new way. I mean, I became

542
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 3: well known from my coming out store you know, we

543
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: all on mass from Nohe I didn't come out to

544
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: the public coming out on Master of None the Things

545
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 3: Given episode, which a lot of people love and tell

546
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 3: me that I watched that with my parents and it

547
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 3: helped me.

548
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: But now as kids saying like why we gotta come out?

549
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: Exactly, man, the kids are gonna be alright. And if

550
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: the kids are all right, then we're gonna be okay.

551
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: And I think that's what I look at is like

552
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: we're waiting for you know, all these folks now that

553
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: are in these leadership positions or in these roles, they're

554
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: they're not going to be here in ten years.

555
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: No, no, and maybe even less. It's these kids are smart,

556
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: they're up standing up for themselves. They're walking out of

557
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: school as they're being killed in their classrooms. They're inspiring.

558
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: Yes, they're drinking less, they're And also I was just

559
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: talking to someone today about, you know, the stories I'm

560
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: telling now, as you know, we write characters, so you

561
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 3: just did you know I'm friends the Abby Jacobson.

562
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: He did leag of their own.

563
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the stories we're telling now, which is also

564
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 3: such a beautiful thing as like obviously we all obsessed

565
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 3: with Leaga their own and come on hello, but in

566
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: the series has its own cult following now as well,

567
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: and how obviously this the sort of the kids that

568
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 3: watch The Leader.

569
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: Yes, can we take it?

570
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: Can we take it?

571
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 4: In?

572
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: Gay it up for real? Like it really is. Because

573
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: when we were doing the show, Lena, the older women

574
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: from the League came on and you know there's like

575
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: a woman big like me, Like she's Irish and She's

576
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: kind of gruff and she's like, this is my roommate, Patricia, Like,

577
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: your roommate? Are we still going by roommate? Are you

578
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: in your nineties? How old are you?

579
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: Right?

580
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: But that was the confines which were placed around them,

581
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: and to think, as a grown woman you can live

582
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: as a lesbian free in society and be successful and

583
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: have people care about you and love you and not

584
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: hold it against you.

585
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: No.

586
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 3: I mean I think it's important and I think it's

587
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: good for you to say, like, look, this is who

588
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: I am, and if you're going to be in business

589
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: with me, this is a part of who I am.

590
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: And it makes me think about you know, when I

591
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 3: was going through the cast and process a Master of

592
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: None with disease, he had an idea of who Denise

593
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 3: was supposed to be.

594
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: It's so much like the Mary Teller Moore show.

595
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 3: Like for the people like you and I, we know

596
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: that Ted Knight, Yes, who would go to play Ted Baxter?

597
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: That character originally was supposed to be a handsome guy

598
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 3: who could potentially be a love interest for Mary. Right,

599
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 3: But when Ted Knight walked in, they're like, oh, this

600
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: is actually funnier, like.

601
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: Much better, you know, a clown, you know what I mean,

602
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: walked cronkite, not very bright.

603
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: And so for Denise, she was supposed to be obviously

604
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: the girl of the crew that ultimately was supposed to

605
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 3: be a love interest for death eventually for his ease.

606
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 3: And so that's where their heads were, you know. And

607
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 3: I think, by the way, that makes so much sense,

608
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 3: Like he's hanging out with this girl, she's on me.

609
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: Did they fall in love?

610
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: So he meets me and I'm open about being queer,

611
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: being myself, and they decide, they're like, you know what,

612
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: I'll never forget. He was like, we're thinking about just.

613
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: Having Denise be like you and be a lesbian and

614
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 3: like rewrite it. And I was like, okayet, that's much

615
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: easier for me to play. And we laughed off and

616
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 3: had no idea of how me showing up and being

617
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: myself and them embracing who I was and who I

618
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: am and saying, you know what, let's just well forget

619
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: that version of Denise and make her queer and make

620
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: her you know, and go from there.

621
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: And I think that's what the rest was history.

622
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: So I think as being ourself, showing up as ourselves,

623
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: it's never going to be bad.

624
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: No, even though it might be scary at first, you know,

625
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: scarier you know, forty years ago than it was twenty

626
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: years ago than it's going to be next month, you know,

627
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: And that's the important part. I mean, I love that

628
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: you won the Emmy for that. I loved seeing you

629
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: get it on the stage. I was so like proud

630
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: again that association. You know, you see another queer woman

631
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: in show business doing well and being successful, and all

632
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: you want to do is root for them.

633
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and that's why I know we got

634
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: to connect. We were on live during the pandemic. But

635
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: I think, and just to add to that, because I

636
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: was very blessed just to get the commisment speech at

637
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: Barnard College and it was my first ever commitsment speech.

638
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: And you know, hearing you speak about that, like when

639
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: I did whin the Emmys, it's a big deal.

640
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's you're on a major stage.

641
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: A black woman had not been nominated in that case

642
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: category and just sitting writing in a comedy series, right,

643
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: you know, Wanda had won for Variety Comedy, which is

644
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: a different category. Mindy Kaling was the only other woman

645
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: of color to be nominated in that category for an

646
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: episode of the Office. So and then, of course, who

647
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: was the amazing, iconic, phenomenal who came after as Quinta Brunson,

648
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: who's now the second black woman to ever win in

649
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 3: that category.

650
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: So now there too, We'll keep we'll keep running.

651
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: But I couldn't think of a more amazing woman to

652
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: share that honor with, though Quinca's phenomenal. But I think,

653
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: you know, for me, when that moment happens, like you said,

654
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: I was sort of put on a pedestal and I

655
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: was the first black and to person to do something.

656
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: And what that does is it puts me in a

657
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: place where I'm breathing rare air, but I'm also finding

658
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: it hard to breathe. Yes, you know, because it's just impossible.

659
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 3: I can't, you know, I want to do well in

660
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: my life. But I think what happens is when you

661
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: represent a group of people that are othered in many

662
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: different ways, as a black person, as a queer black woman,

663
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: as a mass presenting lesbian, which is its own category. Yes,

664
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 3: you then become a representative unwillingly, but you are, you know,

665
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: become representative for the whole group of people. And when

666
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: you falter. When you stumble, when you fall is heard

667
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: and felt in ways that isn't like everybody else. And

668
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: I think that's something that I really had to grapple

669
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: with and really learn to embrace and not become bitter

670
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: or frustrated or say I'm nobody's hero, or rather remind

671
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: people that I'm a human.

672
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: Yes, that you are a human. But you will always

673
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: be the first black woman to win that Emmy in writing.

674
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: That's true.

675
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: You will always be a touchstone for those coming up

676
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: after you, And I think there's honor in that, and

677
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: absolutely that each each achievement needs to live on its

678
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: own and not sort of be you know, how does

679
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: this compare to who she is as a person? Why

680
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: didn't she do this? And we have a charity and

681
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: she didn't show up, and all of a sudden, You're like,

682
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: within your own group, I'm getting this, you know, within

683
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: my own people. Imagine what's happening in.

684
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: The world, Yeah, you know.

685
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: And so saying all you want to do is be

686
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: a beacon for your community, Yes, that's it. But I

687
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: think I think I'm sure you understand this and know

688
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: this is that sometimes you know, a beacon has to

689
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: just exist and and and float off into ce you

690
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 3: know at times, and and still provide a light. But

691
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: you know, I think that's when we start to lose ourselves.

692
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: You know. I always say that I'm really.

693
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: Blessed, you know, to I honor this gift and uh,

694
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: and this gift has fed me really beautifully.

695
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: But I don't want the gift to eat me.

696
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and it can and it will. We've seen it.

697
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: We've seen it do it to so many people that

698
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, we look up to and love and and

699
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: to protect your essence and to protect you know, some

700
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: people say to me, you're just the same when I

701
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: meet you in real life than you are when I

702
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: see you what I like. So that's my goal, is

703
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: to merge all of this into one.

704
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: Yes.

705
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: And I also think that's why you're who you are,

706
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: you know, is I think I don't think people realize

707
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: it is not easy to be yourself in front.

708
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: Of millions of people, right.

709
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: It is not an easy thing to do, and that's

710
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: why so many people create personas you know, And I

711
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: think that's why. Not to bring back to Mary tellingmore,

712
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: but I think I was so fascinated by this person

713
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: that she had to be you know, and there's so

714
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 3: many interviews of her in that first interview in the

715
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: documentary which we found, which I had never seen.

716
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: I had never seen it either.

717
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: I've never seen it, and it's a funnot I would say,

718
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: even if you don't care about Mary Tyllermore, if you

719
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 3: don't care about the Mary Tyllermore show, I ask you

720
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: to just watch the opening of Mary Tellingmore meeting Mary

721
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: Telling Moore, just to see what she was dealing with

722
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 3: at that time and the way she walked that tightrope

723
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: without ever making him feel like, you know, because I

724
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: think that's the thing.

725
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: I think what I learned from.

726
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 3: Mary is that she knew how to be a politician

727
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: without making you feel like she was a politician, right,

728
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: And I think the thing about you was like you're like,

729
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to beat myself all of that, And I

730
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 3: think what's what I learned from you is like, it's

731
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: okay if everybody don't.

732
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: Like that self, Yeah, it's okay.

733
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: Because even sometimes I go like, I'll hear you know,

734
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: you always giving your opinions about things. Sometimes I like,

735
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know if I agree with that one. Rose,

736
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, I say pace about that, But that's

737
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: like there's a level, there's a level of respect. It's like,

738
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: you know what, you've been living longer than me, you know,

739
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: more than I do. I think we have a difference

740
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: of opinion maybe because of you know, what our experiences are.

741
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to argue with you people. You

742
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. It's like, there's no need to

743
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: do that.

744
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 3: And so I think what I learned from you is like,

745
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: if you're going to have an opinion stated, to make

746
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 3: it plain, but understand that those that disagree are.

747
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: Going to come.

748
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: And I think maybe what I may have learned, I'll

749
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: be honest roll is that like, maybe there's a part

750
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: of me that's like every opinion I have I may

751
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: not have to.

752
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: Share right publicly.

753
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: You don't have to.

754
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: But I also think it's okay that people don't. Don't

755
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 3: They don't have to hear all of our other private conversations.

756
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 3: Correct As you know, there's a time in Hollywood where

757
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 3: we didn't know what everybody thought. You know, we didn't

758
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 3: hear everybody's opinions on everything.

759
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes you would. You know, there's great footage of.

760
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 3: Sidney Potier and Harry Belafonte may God rest their souls.

761
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: Having real conversations with Baldwin and like world leaders and

762
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 3: it's amazing and they're you know, and also you know,

763
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: Lorraine Hansbury would be very involving a writer who was

764
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: very politically involved and invested.

765
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: So I think that's absolutely absolute space for that.

766
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: But I also think there's time to have conversations where

767
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 3: we're figuring things out.

768
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: Without a doubt. And you have to know when you

769
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: make a stand publicly. When when I feel cold to

770
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: make a stand, like I don't do it, like watch me,

771
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: I go like, okay, you have to say something. You

772
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: have to say something. Yeah, there are so few women

773
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: with a microphone that if it gets, you know, any

774
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: play that the point of view that I firmly believe in,

775
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, like like especially with the Trump thing, people

776
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: in career wise were saying, you can't do that, you

777
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: can't just like when I wanted what I did talk

778
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: about Woody Allen and my first HBO special e, my

779
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: agents were like, you can't do that, it's going to

780
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: ruin your career. I'm like, I don't care. Do you

781
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: understand I'm not afraid of Woody Allen. I will never

782
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: be afraid of Woody Allen and I'm going to tell

783
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: the truth of what I feel he is about. And

784
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: if you don't believe it or listen to me, you know,

785
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: She's like, but you could not get a gig. You

786
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: want to hear the weirdest thing, Lena or was that

787
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: I get on my talk show and we get a

788
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: call from his casting agent. Do I want to roll

789
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: in the sweet low down with Sean Penn? I said,

790
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: you can tell him. I said, fuck and no two

791
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: words for Woody Allen those are my only two words

792
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: fan fuck. And now I did not know what isn't

793
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: that That's something how he felt that he could get

794
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: anyone who didn't approve with him by just getting them

795
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: into his artistic I was like, I was so appalled

796
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: by that. I thought it was such an unbelievable representation

797
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: of the shitty part of Hollywood.

798
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: You know, wow, you know, but I think to me, like,

799
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: that is your brand, you know, it's it's I actually

800
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: think it's odd if you aren't you know what I'm saying.

801
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: There's something that happened.

802
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: You don't have something's going on right, something's weird.

803
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think that comes with again that's

804
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: your magic.

805
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: That's what people want, that's what people expect.

806
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 3: And I think that's the other thing too, where I

807
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: think you've taken a stand where it's like, look, this

808
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: is who I am.

809
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: You need to take it to leave it.

810
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: And I think that is a really, really beautiful space

811
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: to be and I think I definitely have done that.

812
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 3: And I try to more so say how do I

813
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 3: put this in the work, you know? And and how

814
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: do I put you know, different conversations in the work,

815
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: because I believe that everybody in the world thinks that

816
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 3: are right right, everybody thinks they're right correct, and so

817
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to spend my time trying

818
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 3: to convince someone that maybe they aren't right, because.

819
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're right or not.

820
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: So what I try to do in the work where

821
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 3: it be the Shy and even in Queen and Slim

822
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 3: the conversations that they're having is like, you know, these

823
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 3: are two views, and I want the audience to look

824
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 3: at both and consider them both and to make their

825
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: own decision.

826
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: Because I think what I as a as a as a.

827
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 3: Telling stories, telling narrative stories, I don't want people to

828
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: feel like I'm telling them, what's a thing?

829
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: Correct? But it's so that movie Queen and Slim is

830
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: so beautiful. It's so beautiful they shot the relationship is unbelievable.

831
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 1: It was gorgeous. It was a gorgeous piece of film.

832
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: And I remember when I saw it, I thought, wow,

833
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: look at that. Good for her Man, it was you know,

834
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: it was epic. Really, thank you.

835
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 3: I got some licks. People were definitely not always happy

836
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: about the ending. I don't spoiler alert, which I understand

837
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: and you know, and I think at the time it

838
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: was tough. But it's interesting because I don't know people

839
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: realized this. This was before George, you know, Floyd and

840
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 3: Breonna Taylor, and obviously there was still deaths that we

841
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 3: were reeling from, but obviously those had become world news

842
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: and we're really catching headlines, and rightfully so, so that

843
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 3: there could be some change and we could all come together.

844
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 3: But I could not have foreseen that. But I saw

845
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 3: people going back and revisiting the film, and because to me,

846
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: what was interesting about that time and why I wanted

847
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: to tell that story was that I was seeing murals

848
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 3: go up. I was seeing names of people not because

849
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 3: of their accomplishments or what they had done or how

850
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: they lived, but because they had been killed by police officers.

851
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: That's why I was starting to know people's names, certain

852
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: black people's names. And what I wanted to do was say,

853
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: you know, we don't let people be forgotten. We wear

854
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 3: t shirts, we put up murals, and we say their names.

855
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: Yep.

856
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 3: And so I think what people have seen now with

857
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: time and looking back at the movie is that no

858
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: one ever really dies as long as we keep their

859
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 3: names on our tongues.

860
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: Right.

861
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 3: And also I was thinking about I was like, are

862
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 3: there any murals of people who are still alive?

863
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: Interesting? Not really, not really.

864
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: We've done those and have gone. And so I knew

865
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 3: how I wanted to end that film. And I think,

866
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 3: you know, hopefully people really get my intent, which is

867
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: they are not dead, they are immortal.

868
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: Correct. That's beautiful. It came through I think as a piece.

869
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: I love the ending. I thought it was profound and

870
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: I thought it was you know, riveting, and it grabbed

871
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: everyone and it really brought home the whole meaning of

872
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: the movie. How else could it have ended? I don't know.

873
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: But I also want to talk Can I talk to

874
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: you about your other documentary that I just saw about

875
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: the transsex workers. Yeah. Absolutely, I watched the whole thing

876
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: Cocomo City. I was very fascinated. I think this is,

877
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, a part of our culture that people don't

878
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: want to talk about or look at. And thanks to

879
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: Pose and all of those wonderful actors on that show,

880
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: the stories have become a little more part of the

881
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: public consciousness. But that film really spoke to what it

882
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: was like for those sex workers and how to form

883
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: a life out of that life.

884
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you for mentioning that.

885
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to de Smith

886
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: who was the director of that amazing documentary. It's called

887
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 3: Cocomo City. People can rent it on wherever they rent movies.

888
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: It's digitally available. You can watch it in your living room.

889
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 3: It's it's a really cool film to watch around people.

890
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: But I also think it's an important movie to kind

891
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: of sit and really take in and watch, maybe by

892
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: yourself or with a few other people that you love.

893
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 3: I Rishi Rijani, who's my CEO of Hilm and grad

894
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 3: a Ventures, he saw that film because he was going

895
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 3: to be doing a panel hosting a panel at Sundance

896
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: which De Smiss would be on obviously he wanted to

897
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 3: do his research and he saw the movie. He does

898
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: a thing that you know you're not supposed to do,

899
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: but he slipped it to me and said, Lena, I

900
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: think you should watch this and tell me if you

901
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 3: think there's anything we should do.

902
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: So I was, you know, in London.

903
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 3: I watched it on my computer and was blown away

904
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: and riveted and at that moment, like you said, I

905
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 3: think I should say something for me, I was like,

906
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 3: I think.

907
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: We should be helpful. I think we should be a

908
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: part of this.

909
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 3: And so that's sort of how I can use my

910
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 3: voice at all, is to speak someone else's name and

911
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 3: to make sure people pay attention to this film. And

912
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 3: the film now lives as a tribute in terms of

913
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 3: talking about us and and black folks losing people before

914
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 3: their time unjustly and and is Coco, the doll who

915
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: was featured in the in the film, who is now

916
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: the film is now really a tribute to her. I

917
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: got to meet her at Sundance and she unfortunately did

918
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: not live to see the movie come out.

919
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 2: And that, unfortunately is a part of you.

920
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: Know, the reality of sex work.

921
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, this reality and definitely not something we foresaw in

922
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 3: joining this journey. But it's something that everybody needs to

923
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: understand and to grapple with and to sit with, and

924
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 3: to make sure that there's change and to make sure

925
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 3: that we all get to live long, happy, prosperous, soft lives,

926
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 3: all of.

927
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: Us right, and that we see the humanity in each

928
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: individual in our world. That you know, there are some

929
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: people who don't seem to warrant a second look, and

930
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: everyone does. Everyone has a story that will break your heart.

931
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, you just have to sit down and care

932
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: enough to hear it, you know, listen, I think you're fantastic. Lena.

933
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

934
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much.

935
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: Buby, Well, wasn't that amazing? Thank you? I was one

936
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: of my favorite pods we've ever done. Stay tuned because

937
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,479
Speaker 1: we have some questions for you, the loyal listener, from

938
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: you as well, So don't go anywhere. Welcome back here.

939
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: We are ready to take a little message left by

940
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: one of you, one of you guys. Let's hear it.

941
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 5: Hi, Rosie, my name is Brittany. I'm from Pittsburgh, PA,

942
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 5: and I cannot tell you how much I have been

943
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 5: enjoying your podcast. I was one of the many who

944
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 5: grew up watching you after school, and I'm eternally grateful

945
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 5: for all of the Broadway performances I got to watch

946
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: from my bedroom because of you, and it has definitely

947
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 5: spurred my love of Broadway.

948
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: So thank you.

949
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 5: So my question is about a league of their own.

950
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 5: My husband and I were watching it the other day.

951
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 5: Lah of course, who doesn't love that movie. But when

952
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 5: we got to the end, he said, spoiler alert if

953
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 5: you haven't watched the movie. He said, you know what,

954
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 5: I think Dottie might have dropped the ball on purpose?

955
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 5: And I said, of course she did. Did you not

956
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 5: know that? And he said, no, I've never you know,

957
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 5: in the forty something years I've been watching this movie,

958
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 5: I'd never have thought that.

959
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: And I have always thought that.

960
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 5: And so now I'm wondering, is there a camp of

961
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 5: people who think she didn't drop it on purpose? I mean,

962
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 5: she did right to help her sister win and feel,

963
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 5: you know, the joy of winning and all that. So

964
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 5: I just had to ask your opinion on that, did

965
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 5: Dottie drop the ball on purpose? Thanks so much, Rosie.

966
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: I love you.

967
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: Bite, Oh Brittany, that's the sweetest message I have to

968
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: tell you that. When I had my heart attack and

969
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: I was going in to get a stint put in,

970
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: all of the nurses were like shaving me. They have

971
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: to shave you everywhere. And one nurse said, could you

972
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: just tell me did Dotti drop that ball on purpose?

973
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: And I was like, I has that a lot attack?

974
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, no, but I believe that too. I

975
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: believe Dottie did drop the ball on purpose, right because

976
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: she was going back to her life and her husband

977
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: was home, and she, you know, decided, she made a choice,

978
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: and that choice was to leave the glory to the sister,

979
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: and you know, there's something beautiful and touching about that.

980
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: But I didn't really ever ask Penny about that, but

981
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: I know people have asked me about it a lot

982
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: of time. So my vote is yes, that she dropped

983
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: the ball on purpose. Thank you, Brittany, thank you for

984
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: watching when you were a little girl after school, and

985
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: thank you for your wonderful, wonderful question. I think we

986
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: got one more today, do we?

987
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 6: Oh, Rosie, I can't believe you played that, but anyway,

988
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 6: I'm so thrilled too that you got the message and

989
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 6: you felt the love.

990
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 1: What did I want to say? Oh, it's my name

991
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: is Meryl, just so you know.

992
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 6: And you know, of course course I didn't leave my

993
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 6: name because I forget these things. I'm getting alder. Just

994
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 6: sorry to hear that you're not connecting with your sister.

995
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 6: I have that with my brother, And you know, I

996
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 6: came across a shirt when I was on holiday and

997
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 6: I said, that's my brother, and I bought it and

998
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 6: I sent it and it felt.

999
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: Really good to do that.

1000
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 4: Whether they connect or not, it was just I wanted

1001
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 4: him to know I thought of him.

1002
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 6: So just a little gesture, I think that's all you

1003
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 6: need to do, and then see where it goes. And

1004
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 6: you know, it's just some people are limited.

1005
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 4: That's just the way it is, and we have to

1006
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 4: just no, it's not us all the time. Don't take

1007
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 4: it on like it's your fault. Yeah, everyone's a different

1008
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 4: different not frequencies. What am I trying to say, Just

1009
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 4: different ways.

1010
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 6: Of emotional intelligence.

1011
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: And that's the way it is, as we know.

1012
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 2: All right.

1013
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 6: Anyway, keep going.

1014
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm in love with your cook.

1015
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 4: She sounds wonderful.

1016
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 6: You're lucky, all right, have a great whatever, great day.

1017
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: Great rest of the summer.

1018
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 6: And I'm going to keep listening and I hope this

1019
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 6: continues because it's really enjoyable. I sew well, I listen

1020
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 6: to you. Okay, bye Rosie, Bye, Meryll.

1021
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: You are I don't know where the button is. I

1022
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: don't know where the button is, Merrill, You're adorable. I

1023
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: totally could say that we could be friends. Yes, I

1024
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: have done for many years, you know, since our kind

1025
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 1: of separation from each other. I have sent things over

1026
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: the years, and you know, I don't know. I think

1027
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: we're very different people. And you know, the bigness of

1028
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: my life, the you know, insanity, I think, for you know,

1029
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: someone who likes things a little bit more normal, my

1030
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: life's a little crazy, you know, I don't know, but

1031
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: I love her and I miss her very much. And

1032
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: it's one of the most painful things of you know,

1033
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: for me and my life and world. It's it's still

1034
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: painful all these years later, and but I will still try.

1035
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I do my best. But thank you

1036
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: very much, Meryll. Thank you for your messages, and I

1037
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: would love to meet you one day. Know that, hey

1038
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: next week. Alexander Vidman Alexander Vidman who wrote the amazing

1039
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: book Here Right Matters, and he was the one who

1040
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: testified against Don Trump for trying to strong arm Zelenski,

1041
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: trying to blackmail Zelensky into getting information about Joe Biden,

1042
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: and Alex Binman was on that call. And Alex Binman

1043
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: testified and then had his military career, which was spotless

1044
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: and awarded, taken away from him. I think he is

1045
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: an American hero and I had a wonderful conversation with him.

1046
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: So Alexander Vinman next week here on onward,