WEBVTT - Karen Read Murder Trial: ‘Cops Lying Against Cops About Cops’ 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:12.160 Y'all better buckle up. I have not seen a case 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:14.720 like this since Casey Anthony. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:15.800 And let me explain. 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:22.840 I have four sisters, well educated women, diverse in their 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.120 likes and dislikes. They've probably got about twelve degrees between them. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.520 A couple of them got a six year degree, one's 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.120 got a PhD. They've got master's degrees, they've got rn degrees. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:39.519 And I say that because these are logical people. But 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.839 during the Casey Anthony trial, I had one sister that 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:45.160 thought the mama straight up. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:45.800 Killed that baby. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.479 I had one that believed the baby drowned accidentally and 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.680 they covered it up with grandpa's help. I had another 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.400 one that believed the child got into some drugs and 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.280 accidentally odeed. And I had another one that thought the 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.400 baby died I somehow, maybe hitting her head or something, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.520 and her mama panicked and covered it up. And I thought, 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.600 you know what, this is your jury. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.040 These are all for mamas. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.319 These are all for you know, middle of the road, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.760 middle America kind of people. And so I said on 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.640 National TV what I thought was logical, and I did 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.040 so confidently that Casey Anthony was going to walk out 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.560 of that courtroom and The reason I said it was 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.560 because if you could not tell me how. 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:39.039 That baby died, you don't have murder. People lost their minds. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:44.600 I had more hate mail. Good ness. People were coming 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.440 after me. How could I defend Casey Anthony? How could 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.200 I believe? Listen now, I tried to be very clear 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.040 and logical, but I'm gonna tell you right now before 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.720 we get into tonight, it don't matter what you think, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.040 or what you feel, or what you believe. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.520 The only thing that matters is what you can prove. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.440 Judge Ashley Wilcom, Joshua Schiffer, we got about forty years 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.440 of the best there is. So Karen Reid, let's say 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.000 answer one question for him. Between the three of us, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.840 we have walked into a courthouse thousands of times. What 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:27.280 is a buffer zone? 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:28.160 Oh? 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.440 I think it's brilliant. I think this is brilliant maneuvering. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:38.160 It's all brilliant maneuvering. Keep all those protesters that are 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.680 for Karen Reid away from the courthouse, Judge, because that's 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.760 going to bias this case and bias this jury. And 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.480 they shouldn't be anywhere around here because that interest of 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:55.040 a fair trial, says the state outweighs the freedom of 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.359 speech standing on. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.000 The courthouse steps. Josh, you weigh in, But I thought 0:02:59.000 --> 0:02:59.359 it was a. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:03.120 Brilliant maneuver, I gotta say, And I'm a died in 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.200 the wool civil libertarian. But the court has a necessary 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.480 and important interest in securing and then protecting the integrity 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.640 of the process. While freedom of speech needs to have 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.440 an outlet, needs to have a spot, it has been 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.880 demonstrated that this courthouse, for this case, cannot provide that 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.400 to the litigans without some sort of governmental regulation. And 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.600 now then you see cops all over the place. Every 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.120 time these Litigans walk in or out of the courthouse, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.280 there is a mob of people questioning them with some 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.080 reasonable stuff, but then some really wild stuff, like there's 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.680 been stuff in the media in this case that it's 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.400 been unlike any other case we've ever seen. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.600 I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen protesters 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:52.000 like this. I've never seen such rabid folks on both sides. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.400 Where they're just unyielding. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.480 It's almost like logic doesn't matter, the law doesn't matter, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.640 the facts don't matter. It's just my opinion, my thought, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.040 my belief is going forward. But there's one woman she 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.800 has a shirt on that says free Karen Reid, but 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.520 she's holding a poster that says justice for John O'Keefe. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:13.680 I feel for her. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.480 I get it like it almost can't be both, Like 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.559 you can't be that woman. You've got to pick a side. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:23.480 I bet you can't. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.720 Go into a bar nowhere in that town that it's 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:27.600 not separated. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.200 If this defense theory is true, are they going to 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.599 demand a prosecution of these witnesses? 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.320 Well, if the defense theory is true, I think at 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.400 the end of the day, if they get an acquittal acquittal, 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.320 they're going to run away. I would write that's a 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.520 huge wind. If I were them, I would disappear and 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.600 not demand a dang thing because guess what, I was successful. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.000 But I also have to suggest that when we're talking 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.680 about Karen Reid's defense and what she's saying happened, we 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.960 know from her prior interviews defendant's own words that she 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.200 says she saw John o'kee walking up to the house. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.280 She's the only witness so far. It's going to say that. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.680 The rest have said, oh no, nobody ever got out 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.240 on car. So if that's her defense, does she have 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.279 to testify because I think if she has to testify, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.920 the prosecution really might stand a chance because it may 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.120 conclude there's no other reasonable explanation than she did it. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.719 And her testifying this is going to Because I'm on 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.840 the same page as you, I'm saying that she doesn't 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.040 need to testify in this case given how strong the 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.159 defense has been so far. Now we've still got several 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.880 more witnesses, and I think Procter is the be all 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:39.680 end all. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.440 For the state's case, because if the state can't produced 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.479 with Proctor, this case may look at a directed verdict. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.400 Assuming Proctor presents enough strong evidence and there's been Look, 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.880 there's been Prema faci eforts, not a lot, certainly not 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.559 enough that we would say that's a good, well proven case, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.960 but there's been testimony. But I think that's what they're 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.359 going to have to decide after the state's case is closed, 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:10.080 because she getting on the stand, big exposure, huge exposure. 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.640 Well, let me ask the two of you this, what 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:18.800 about John working with the Feds? What about the federal investigation? Again, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.279 to me, that's a layer on this thing. If you 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.520 want to look at why would somebody have motive if 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.800 you're fixing to blow up my whole career and my 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.120 whole department and my ring of buddies. That's good all day. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.200 And if he just arrived at our house intoxicated and 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.840 she pulled away, whatever happened to happen. And now we're 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.920 just going to say she did it. She's going to 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.400 say we did it. And again I'll go back to 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.479 casey Anthony, how did he die? 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.520 We don't know, we don't know. 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:50.560 We're not going to know. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.040 Based on the evidence you have both. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.719 This is the wildest case to me because you've got 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.600 evidence supporting each theory. So whichever theory you want to believe, 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.040 you can find some supporting evidence of. And that's really unusual. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.440 And I think the FEDS being involved is reflective of 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:13.080 this poor investigation and something shady in the house and 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.320 prosecutor that didn't start off well doing the right thing 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.680 in the case, and all of that makes it all 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:20.520 very messy. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.880 And the FED stuff, I know, it's hard because we 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.520 all know the case. And oh, if I was a FED, 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.480 this is the part that I'd be interested. Remove that 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.840 from your brain. You have no idea what the FEDS 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.480 are thinking if there is someone that comes out of 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.040 left field, because they have information you can't even conceive of. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.720 It's the FEDS. Sure, we've got some stuff that would 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.560 make a lot of sense for them to investigate complaints. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.520 And let's be honest, this is Massachusetts. The FEDS have 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.720 been investigating Massachusetts law enforcement. It was literally like the 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.679 first job was, Hey, go investigate the local police in Massachusetts. 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.440 There are some corrupt ones. So it's not like this 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.160 is shocking or unprecedented. This is a known thing and 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.600 that means that people have been investigated before, and that 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.480 means that there's a whole community about Hey, FED, start 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.960 knock and this is what you do, and there's us 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.680 versus them mentality. Law enforcements not necessarily all friendly with 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.280 each other. And we don't know whether this FED poking 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.280 around is minor or if it's like you're talking about 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.800 career ending and they can end your career in law 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.239 enforcement by snapping their fingers. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.640 Yeah, because people are saying that Brian Albert, Colin, Albert, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:36.000 Brian Higgins, who's an ATF agent, y'all all had motive, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:37.960 they're all corrupt. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:44.280 Well, again, you cannot have the FEDS involved in any 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.600 investigation to me without it cloud and what they're trying 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.000 to do in that courthouse right now. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.840 I agree with you, And you know, the other part 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.920 of this for me is there's so many parts. I've 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.320 said that eight times. But the other thing that I 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.079 took note of is my sense listening to all of 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.240 the evidence presented by the state so far, I walk 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.400 away with this feeling of I feel like John o'keeith 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.520 was looking in from the outside, even though he was 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.240 one of them. I don't get the impression that they 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.400 liked him. They weren't grab assing with him at the bar. 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.160 They weren't you know, it wasn't a video where we're 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.160 all saying, oh, what were they doing at the bar together? 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.520 Well, they were kind of ignoring him if you just 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.160 watch that video, and I don't you know, they didn't 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.000 run out, according to their own testimony, when he's out 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.640 there in the lawn and dying or dead. And so 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.200 I feel like, for whatever reason, they don't like him, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.240 and Mac, I'll turn it back to you, because again, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.480 if a cop is not liked, there's something else there. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:47.240 I cannot agree, and to me that cannot be overstated. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.760 So again to me, that goes to motive. Did they 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.120 know that he was working with the Feds. It would 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.959 almost appear that they knew he was working with the Feds. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.840 That's why they didn't fool with him. That's why he 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.839 didn't go in the house. That's why they didn't go outside. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:06.800 And I'll tell you something else that I would like 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:13.280 to see come out. Who planned, assisted, ran participated in 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.800 the funeral? What did they do post? Y'all all know 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.560 pre and post behavior. And you got a cops funeral 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.120 that died on your front yard. You ought to be 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.200 folding that flag, handing that to somebody. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:31.000 And there's already just enormous scuttle butt about who was 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.240 talking to who, when, where, When did friendships end? And 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.200 again I'm I'm with Ashley. I feel that John O'Keefe 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.280 was a little bit of an outsider looking in rumors 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.760 that I trust make me believe that they obviously knew 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:48.640 each other to a degree, and there might have been 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.880 this minor bad blood, a misunderstanding something between a couple 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.480 of different agencies. But I can't tell you whether that's 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.120 a little thing or a huge thing. And for all 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.360 we know, this was a meeting later on in the 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.920 night to you know, squash that beef from back in 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.920 the day or something that's gone through my mind. John 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.959 o'keefs just wandered through life, and this crew, somebody associated 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.840 with them, the cousin, the brother whatever, has a beef 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.560 with John o'keeth. Hey, he's coming over. Hey, we're just 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.839 gonna prank and we're gonna ras him. We're gonna we're 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.160 gonna town him because Towny's they got a little bit 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.760 of a cruel sense of humor. Every once in a 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.400 while they may, you know, give a guy something to 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.960 remember him by because he stepped in the wrong spot. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.760 And I don't know what's happened, because no one knows. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.040 And that gets back to the state's problem at the beginning. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.920 There's evidence for a lot of different things that means 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:41.559 reasonable doubts everywhere, and. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.319 The state keeps putting it out there. Josh, I feel like, again, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.360 the state is so busy. It's not as strategic here's 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.880 the theory of our case, here's our evidence to support it, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.840 but rather throwing up in an out of order sequence 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.160 of witnesses, which happens because witnesses are available at different times. 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.959 But to me, it's like they're so busy defending the 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.040 theories of the defense and trying to prove the elements 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.440 of murder that they're getting into a mess to figure 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:08.760 out what the heck happened. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:14.080 The state wants to put forward a discrete, compact, straightforward case. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.679 This is what happened. That's how you prove a murder. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.160 What the states have done. And I don't know if 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.319 it was up just a badly handled response or anticipation 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.079 or what the state has ended up saying, Hey, here's 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.600 our tight, concise story. The defense is going to bring 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.319 up all these other things. Let's go talk about them 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.880 a lot. And it's like, no, dude, you got to 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.760 take what the defense is going to throw at you 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.679 and say, everybody, it's on the horizon, but it's garbage. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.880 To get rid of it and don't talk about it anymore. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:47.040 They're laboring these points, and that's calling attention to come on. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.880 Maybe that wasn't a big detail earlier, but now I'm 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.640 going to pay attention to it because now I've seen 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.080 conflicting evidence and impeachment. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.600 I want y'all's opinion about this. I hadn't heard anybody 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.199 say this, and but here's how I feel Troop or 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:09.520 Proctor is gonna mark firm in this thing to the 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.200 point I don't think they can recover. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:12.960 Because here's the deal. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.400 If he went in that phone and he takes those 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.120 people what he is alleged to have said, I'm looking 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.760 for nudes. I hope she kills herself. It is not 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.960 gonna matter what evidence he puts up. They won't forgive him. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.319 I agree, I agree, And not only that, but then 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:33.880 I get to the heart of this. When we talk 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.040 about motive and maybe working for the FBI, I just 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.760 feel like somewhere in motive there's some affairs going on, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.719 there's some activity that they're trying to protect. But come on, 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.160 it's the oldest motive in the book, and it is involved. 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.480 And how many times have we seen a little cover 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:56.959 up suddenly explode and turn into something huge? Because hey, listen, Ashley, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.360 I just need you to tell this one little teeny life. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.880 It's all good to be. Oh hold on, Mac, you're 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.920 in the room too, Okay, So Mac, you come over here. 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.120 Now you're in on this story. Oh Mac, what do 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.840 you mean? You've got your cousin is coming, And it's 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.920 just it keeps getting a little bit larger and a 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.640 little bit larger, and you can't keep the life straight. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.360 And then you got to make up a couple of 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.599 new lives because man, they were not there, so we 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.240 got to figure out where they were, and now we 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.000 got to fit And then you can't control those lives. 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.880 You can't control the story. And a good defense is 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.600 going to show those discrepancies and inconsistencies as the reason 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.560 that the state cannot prevent absolutely. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:39.680 And I'll tell you for any young officers listening, if 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.880 you have this situation, you arrest the weak link, meaning 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.880 if it gets outside that circle, to that cousin, to 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.200 that best friend from high school that you really hadn't 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:52.920 talked with in six months. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:54.200 You arrest the idiot. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.200 You arrest the one that's going to be afraid, the 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.480 one that's not used to you know. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.120 The one who stumbled in either yes, I who was 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.200 just catching a ride, the guy who's stuff was in 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.000 the back, but he doesn't know that guy. You get 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.280 that person because when you put them in the squeeze, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.480 they're the ones that have the most to lose and 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.560 the least to care about. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.760 But in this case, which is that person because a 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.400 lot of these people that have testified that we're inside 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.920 that house, I would say every one of them fits 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.080 that descriptions. They sounded on the stand, some of them 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.600 like just a little bit of a bozo that didn't 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.280 you know? On cross within said I don't know, I 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.880 don't remember. You didn't hear anything. No, I was asleep. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.800 You didn't wake up till the next morning. No, I 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.760 was asleep. No I didn't go outside. I think you 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.400 could put all of them in that basket. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.800 Well, let me ask y'all this. Both of y'all have 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.760 seen both sides of many cases. And if you were 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.600 the prosecutor, what are you pushing the hardest? And if 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.160 you're the defense attorney, what are you push in the hardest. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.320 If it's me and I'm that prosecutor, I'm going to 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.840 push at the end of the day, I think this 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.080 is a case where, yet again the closing argument is 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.280 going to make or break it for the state, and 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.120 I think they have got to bring it together with 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.680 their theory of the case. This is the evidence that 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:26.520 shows the only reasonable explanation she ran over him, period. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.720 All the rest of this stuff you can't believe. And 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.120 here's why you can't believe it, because at the end 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.360 of the day, the defense has no proof, no proof 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.440 that anything happened to John O'Keefe inside that house. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.480 I'm not often in the position where I really would 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.800 encourage the state to double or even triple down on 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.640 telling the tight story and almost be rude to the defense. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.479 But this defense has been so active and so aggressive 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.320 and so engaging. The state needs to really start putting 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.560 up megaffects. So it is getting down and dirty and 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.960 telling the jury ignore the noise, ignore the distraction, ignore 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.399 everything that the defense is building, trying to pick apart 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.199 the personalities of these people, because we have a simple 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.679 case here. We have a boyfriend and girlfriend having fighting, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.760 having drinking. She drops him off and he's dead where 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.840 she drops him off. The police officers and first responders 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:30.360 in the house never hear him. Come in, Ladies and gentlemen, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.879 that's because she ran him over. They can talk about 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.639 all this other stuff. And you've all seen the enormous 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.760 amount of creativity that's gone into showing that this was 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.359 a conspiracy and there's a cover up, and this involves 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.520 hundreds a bit or you can believe the straightforward story 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.080 that they were really angry and Karen Reid ran him 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.520 over in a drunken rage because the more the state 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.399 engages with the defense and the defense, they're giving life 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.600 to a corpse that is conspiracy theory, that is cover up. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.920 They're bringing the zombie of cover up to life. Every 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.680 time they talk about and if I'm the defense, I 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.360 ain't got much to improve on. You're doing real life, 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.240 pretty good loibles here and there. I hate it when 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.000 he ends the question every time with isn't that correct? 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:21.760 Isn't that. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.080 Bombers your terrible trial skills? 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.159 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn a couple of other words. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.920 Other than that, I've got to give thumbs up. They 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.840 have built a cover up that is now threatening to 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:37.560 take over the defensive theory. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.840 And then you come down to it, if there's an acquittal. 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.240 I don't know what this jury is going to do. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.080 None of us do. But if there's an acquittal, will 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.439 they try her again? And I think they would. I 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.600 don't know, Josh. I think the state would. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.120 But you know, I know that the cops are really 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.959 angry about it. I don't know how the DA's office is. Like. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.520 Lally is a little bit of a mystery, kind of 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.720 an enigma to me because he doesn't seem to be 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.560 into this case. But maybe that's just the way he is. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.920 I've not met a single lawyer who said that they 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.080 were impressed by or engaged with his opening, but he 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:15.760 has been effective at getting the evidence out. I just 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.359 don't know how much he likes this case. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.879 Yeah, it didn't to me. There's no energy, so I 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.080 feel like it's one they didn't want to have to try. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.800 But that's just I don't know, you know, maybe his personality. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.320 He could be also getting other information or no other 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.600 stuff that we don't know, like if he knows that 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.359 Procter is halfway through a giant investigation for the FEDS, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.560 or there's a whole other case, or who knows, and 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.879 that would obviously impact his willingness to push boundaries, you know, 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.680 go to the edge of the envelope and really push 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.119 hard to win the case. Man, if you know that 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:51.920 there's a bunch of bad stuff going on with some 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.119 of these people in the background, at may not be 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.399 the spot to stick your neck out. And he's certainly 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.680 not sticking his neck out as a prosecutor. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:01.720 Well, this is going to be the case, I think 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.320 for him, no matter what diner or bar or restaurant 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.719 or family re union, he wants into This is going 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.000 to be what he's forced to talk about. And it's 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.600 never going to be hey, great job. It's always going 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.879 to be hey, don't you think you could have done this? 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.000 Or don't you think this happened? Or why did you 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.399 do this? I think it's going to be a constant 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:24.920 just thorn in his side. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.600 Especially because it's divisive. This is a divisive case no 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.960 matter what the outcome is. You've got an entire half 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.399 of followers saying that's the wrong outcome. So there's no 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.840 good answer, so to speak from that perspective. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.840 And what Judge Ashley is also saying is this is 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.320 the kind of case that gets people unelected or elected. Yeah, 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.840 because yes, this is what everybody cares about. This is 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.800 what man. People are showing up in drugs. Someone's going 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.800 to want a job change because of this. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:53.560 Listen. 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.320 People are invested in this thing that don't live anywhere 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:57.359 near Massachusetts. 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.040 Yeah, it's a big one. We get a lot of 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.240 viewers watching the some Court TV a lot. Oh, I'm sure. 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.360 And this is going to be something that I think 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.879 law schools are going to study. I can tell you 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.520 some crime scene people need to. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.560 Take a look. When you start talking about red solo 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:12.119 cups and. 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:20.200 Flowers and contact wlame we get Mac brand leaf blowers. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:24.040 Come on, you are lay out on the monetization Listen. 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.200 I've already been in talks with home depots. 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.040 That's it. But you could really do a whole course 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.880 on evidence collection in this case, legal skills, trial skills. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:36.240 You can do courses on this. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.960 Case, Yes, and I think that that should happen. Just 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.560 like Ojay, we learned a lot. I mean, this is 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.200