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Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. Before we get to today's classic. This week,

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Speaker 1: we put out a playlist of some of our otter

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Speaker 1: and mostly more upbeat episodes out of the archive. We

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Speaker 1: called that playlist Offbeat History. With this ongoing coronavirus pandemic,

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Speaker 1: we thought it might give folks who are practicing some

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Speaker 1: social distancing or sheltering in place, or otherwise having some

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Speaker 1: more time in relative isolation a little something extra to

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Speaker 1: help pass the time. UH and several of our colleagues

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Speaker 1: other shows in our I Heart Podcast family have done

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and so we've launched a new feed

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Speaker 1: for all of those. So it's all of those pandemic collections.

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Speaker 1: It's called the best of Stuff, and you should be

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Speaker 1: able to find it wherever you get your podcasts. And

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Speaker 1: now we'll move on to today's Saturday Classic. It is

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Speaker 1: World Poetry Day, so today we're sharing an episode from

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Speaker 1: the archive that's on a poet, rebind Er, not Tagore,

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Speaker 1: who was a Bengali poet and was the first Asian

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Speaker 1: Nobel laureate. This episode originally came out on November and

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Speaker 1: it is from previous hosts Sarah and Deablina, So enjoy.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Dowdy and I'm very happy to be joined

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Speaker 1: by my new co host today. Yep, I'm Deblina Chokate

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Speaker 1: boardy I will be joining Sarah and talking about history

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Speaker 1: stuff with you. Yeah. Debilina is the homepage editor here

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Speaker 1: at How Stuff Works. Um, so she basically programs the

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Speaker 1: whole homepage every day. So if you've ever visited the site,

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Speaker 1: you have seen Debilina's handiwork. Yes, and I hope you've

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Speaker 1: clicked on lots of things, clicked lots of links. That's

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Speaker 1: what we all want you to do. But um, Debilina,

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Speaker 1: why don't you give us a little background on this

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Speaker 1: topic and explain why you picked it today? Sure? Well,

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Speaker 1: today's topic is a little bit maybe appropriately maybe inappropriately

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Speaker 1: personal to myself. My parents are from India, there Bengali,

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Speaker 1: and our topic today is Rabat Nath Tagore, who is

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Speaker 1: a well known Bengali figure, probably best known for being

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Speaker 1: the first Asian Nobel laureate. And it's the hundred and

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Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of his birth. So it's been in the

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Speaker 1: news a lot lately. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: going on to celebrate his birth this year, UM, including

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Speaker 1: the Kolkata Film Festival, has showed movies that are based

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Speaker 1: on his works. Um. People are performing his plays, school

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Speaker 1: children are performing his songs and his dance dramas, and

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Speaker 1: so it's a big to do. There's even a traveling train,

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Speaker 1: which seems like probably the best part of the celebration

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Speaker 1: in my opinion. The traveling train is indeed awesome. It

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Speaker 1: is visiting cities throughout India until next May, and each

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Speaker 1: car features kind of a different aspect and it's featuring

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Speaker 1: mostly arts type of stuff. Like the other celebrations are

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Speaker 1: like a museum on the move essentially exactly great. Um,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people don't really appreciate how just

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Speaker 1: how much of an accomplished artist this guy was. How

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Speaker 1: much of an accomplished poet he was. He was a singer,

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Speaker 1: a philosopher, he was interested in politics, he was an educator,

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Speaker 1: a reformer. Um, he wasn't a politician exactly, but I

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Speaker 1: mean his influence there is pretty great too. He he

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Speaker 1: just touched on so many different things. It's kind of,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of inspiring. When you start

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Speaker 1: looking at his life and also sort of makes you

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Speaker 1: feel like not up to that, what have I done? Right?

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Speaker 1: So his work in the political arena and his reformation

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Speaker 1: efforts that you mentioned last, those are probably the things

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Speaker 1: that are lesser known about him. Most people know about

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Speaker 1: his arts, his involvement in the art scene in India,

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Speaker 1: all his contributions, there's far songs, plays, dramas, everything goes.

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Speaker 1: But I think that people don't know what he contributed

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Speaker 1: as far as politics well, and he's not that well

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Speaker 1: known in the West at all. So I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have a lot to explore, even the things he's famous

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Speaker 1: for in India. Definitely one of the things that he

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Speaker 1: is famous for that will take a look at today

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Speaker 1: he was knighted by the British government and some accused

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Speaker 1: him of being a pro British elitist, and there's some

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Speaker 1: controversy around that nighting to tring to talk about a

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Speaker 1: little later we will, um. But really what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at is just was he a nationalist or not? Um?

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Speaker 1: Was this just a different approach to nationalism for him?

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Speaker 1: His involvement in politics and um look at his renunciation

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Speaker 1: of the of the knighthood and what surrounded that. So

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Speaker 1: before we get into that, let's look at his beginnings.

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Speaker 1: He was born May six, eighteen sixty one, in Calcutta

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Speaker 1: into a well to do, well educated, very artistic, progressive family. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was really exposed to a lot as a kid too.

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Speaker 1: I mean his family would have been reading Sanskrit and

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Speaker 1: ancient Hindu text and Persian literature and known Islamic tradition.

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Speaker 1: So imagine it this really melting pot in his home

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Speaker 1: of learning and um, just a lot of intelligent discussion,

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Speaker 1: I imagine, definitely. I think it was unique to any

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Speaker 1: culture at the time. And let's talk about that time

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Speaker 1: a little bit. It was during British rule in India

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Speaker 1: when he was born, and his family, the two Gores,

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Speaker 1: they were very active in the Bengal Renaissance, which was

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Speaker 1: basically a movement that began in the mid eighteen sixties

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Speaker 1: to protect national culture. It was really to preserve, um,

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Speaker 1: the local culture, the arts, all the things that his

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Speaker 1: family wanted to celebrate, the traditional heritage, and it was

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Speaker 1: a response to Anglicization. So they would throw festivals every

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Speaker 1: year that featured Angian songs and poems and dances, and

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Speaker 1: you mentioned wrestling matches when we were talking about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of a surprise thrown in there,

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Speaker 1: but hey, it's a part of culture, right, balanced the

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Speaker 1: arts with a little wrestling boards and aspect of culture.

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Speaker 1: I like sports. So in addition to being an involved

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Speaker 1: in this yearly cultural event to Gore's father, Deba's or

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Speaker 1: not to Gore, he was very involved in something called

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Speaker 1: the Brahmo somag. The Brahma Somaj was basically a movement

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Speaker 1: within Hinduism which was established around or so, and it

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Speaker 1: was an attempt to reform Hinduism. What I mean by

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Speaker 1: that is that it incorporated some aspects of Christianity. It

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Speaker 1: denounced things like polytheism and idol worship, and it also

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Speaker 1: denounced the cast system. So through this they were trying

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Speaker 1: to um enact some sort of social reform. But it

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Speaker 1: never really became that widely popular. Um, yeah, I mean it,

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Speaker 1: even though I guess it's still technically around today, it

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Speaker 1: didn't really grow much past the twentieth century or the

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Speaker 1: early twentieth century. Yeah, it's definitely recognized as a movement

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Speaker 1: within Hinduism, um, but I don't think it reached maybe

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Speaker 1: the heights that to Gore's father wanted it to the

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Speaker 1: Brahmi Smudge movement. It did loose steam the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: But the important thing about that is that we can

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Speaker 1: see into Gore's life is that it was combining these

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Speaker 1: Eastern and Western ideals that will see kind of throughout

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Speaker 1: his development and in his work and his philosophy. So

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Speaker 1: it's the beginnings of that, I guess. Yeah. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about his childhood intellectual life aside um,

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Speaker 1: he was kind of lonely. He wasn't that close to

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Speaker 1: his parents. This is according to his own memoirs. His

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Speaker 1: dad was gone a lot, traveling on business and um.

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Speaker 1: Some people have suggested that he just didn't really get

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Speaker 1: much attention and love growing up and sort of felt

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Speaker 1: neglected in that respect. Yeah, he did. He does give

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Speaker 1: us accounts of traveling with his father and his adolescence,

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Speaker 1: but from what we can tell, he wasn't really that

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Speaker 1: close to anyone. Roby as he was sometimes called, wasn't

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Speaker 1: really close to his folks. But that might have been

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Speaker 1: a good thing because he was given a lot of freedom.

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Speaker 1: Because of that, he was given a lot of space

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Speaker 1: to develop creatively. And to write, and that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, So he started writing at a very

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Speaker 1: young age and kept on doing it over six decades.

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Speaker 1: He ended up writing about two thousand, five hundred songs

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Speaker 1: and twenty eight volumes of poetry, drama, opera, short stories, novels,

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Speaker 1: essays and diaries, plus a bunch of letters. So this

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Speaker 1: is what we meant at the beginning when we're saying

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Speaker 1: this can make you feel a little inadequate. He lived

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Speaker 1: a very long time, but he was writing for his

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Speaker 1: entire life pretty much NonStop, definitely. In eight seventy seven

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Speaker 1: he actually went to England to study for about a

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Speaker 1: year at the University College of London, and while he

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Speaker 1: was there he wrote some more too. He wrote some

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Speaker 1: plays and he was introduced to the western style of

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Speaker 1: music there, but it didn't really last. He ended up

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Speaker 1: coming back after a year, and Um, the only thing

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Speaker 1: that I could find on that is that he thought

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Speaker 1: it was too cold. Legitimate complaints. It's legit. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've lived in cold places. It's tough. But that was

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Speaker 1: definitely an influence in his life though, I think. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: so you know, he came back to India after just

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Speaker 1: about a year of studies, but he kept on writing

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Speaker 1: and he published his first book of poetry when he

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Speaker 1: was only about seventeen, and then throughout the eighteen eighties

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Speaker 1: he kept on putting out books, all leading up to Manasci,

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Speaker 1: which was published in eighteen nine. And that's sort of

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Speaker 1: one of his first works that is fairly well known,

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Speaker 1: right yep. A lot of his well known poems and

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Speaker 1: some of his well known political satire and commentary is

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Speaker 1: in that book. Uh. And that satire did take kind

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Speaker 1: of a critical tone towards towards his fellow Bengalis, and

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Speaker 1: so we see kind of his starting of his evolution

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Speaker 1: of his political views social views there. Yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: tone starts to change too in the eighteen nineties because

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Speaker 1: of his traveling and a few events that happened. Yep,

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Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier to Gore's family was pretty wealthy,

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Speaker 1: so they had both a home in the city and

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Speaker 1: they had some estates in East Bengal, which we know

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Speaker 1: today is Bangladesh. So he went for a while in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen nineties to manage his father's estates there and

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Speaker 1: he stayed there for about a decade. But this area

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Speaker 1: was pretty rural, pretty poverty stricken, and he was in

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Speaker 1: close contact with the villagers while he was there, so

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Speaker 1: it really gave him a new outlook, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: He gained a lot of sympathy for the plight of

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Speaker 1: the locals there, I think, and this began to inform

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Speaker 1: his writing a lot, Yeah, and change his style a

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Speaker 1: little too, even. Yeah, well, he started writing in a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a new style at that time. He

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Speaker 1: started experimenting a little bit more with free verse as

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Speaker 1: opposed to earlier when he was I think when he

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Speaker 1: was younger, he was mostly writing in traditional classical Indian forms. Um. Again,

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Speaker 1: part of this whole Bengal Renaissance thing, the idea of

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Speaker 1: preserving culture. It as he got more into the eighteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: started being a little more flexible with his form. So

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Speaker 1: that was one thing. But then also his subject matter

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Speaker 1: I think started to explore more of what he had seen, um,

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Speaker 1: some of more of the issues that he had seen

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Speaker 1: in rural Bengal. And so this informed his work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean it wasn't just limited to his own

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Speaker 1: experiences too. He started to be influenced by some world

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Speaker 1: events that were going on, namely the Boer War in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety nine and just a little I've tried to

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Speaker 1: do a real podcast on the Bower War before and

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Speaker 1: it didn't really work out. But to give you a

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Speaker 1: basic rundown of it, it was a conflict between the

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Speaker 1: two independent Dutch speaking Bauer republics of South Africa and

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Speaker 1: the British Empire, and it was very bloody. At the end,

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Speaker 1: the Boer Republics agreed to come under the sovereignty of

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Speaker 1: the British Crown. So to Gore was already starting to

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Speaker 1: get kind of interested in politics and political writing when

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Speaker 1: this was going on, but the Boer Are really it

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Speaker 1: got him more interested in it. It it made him

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Speaker 1: look more into world politics, world events. Yep. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about two Gore's politics a little bit, just to

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Speaker 1: give people an idea of what was going on in

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Speaker 1: his mind and what point of view he was coming from.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people, as we said before, especially anti

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Speaker 1: colonial nationalists, they accused to Gore of being pro British

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Speaker 1: and against the nationalist movement, and this wasn't kind of

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Speaker 1: had some truth to it maybe, but wasn't exactly true.

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Speaker 1: To Gore was against colonialism. Just put that out there.

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Speaker 1: He wanted India to be an independent nation. But he

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Speaker 1: didn't think that the confrontation and non cooperation UM tactics

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Speaker 1: that were used by some of his contemporaries Gandhi obviously

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Speaker 1: a very famous one, Mahandas Gandhi, who was actually his

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Speaker 1: friend UM. So they differed in this way. He was

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Speaker 1: one who who did use these tactics and and they

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Speaker 1: disagree ead on on this, but they were still very

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Speaker 1: good friends. He was actually the first to call Gandhi

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Speaker 1: Mahatma which means great soul, which I just learned that

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Speaker 1: in this podcast. So it wasn't it fun fact. But

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Speaker 1: he certainly wasn't pro British. He wanted India to be

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Speaker 1: its own country exactly. He just didn't think that a change,

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Speaker 1: a straight change in political regime is all that they needed.

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Speaker 1: His answer to the problem of India was education. He

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Speaker 1: proposed that only through education could the their nation really

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Speaker 1: affect true change. UM. Actually, as an example of this,

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Speaker 1: UM I found a statement that he made in nineteen

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Speaker 1: o nine which was actually a letter to an American

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Speaker 1: lawyer who had written him talking about the problem of

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Speaker 1: India and what was going on with colonialism. And it

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Speaker 1: was from a lawyer named Myron H. Phelps and to

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Speaker 1: Gore put it this way to him, he said, for us,

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Speaker 1: there can be no question of blind revolution, but of

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Speaker 1: steady and purposeful education. He said, that's basically what it

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Speaker 1: would take to snap his people out of the quote

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Speaker 1: trance that cold blooded repression had put them under. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean some people see this as just a different

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Speaker 1: approach to nationalism. It's it's not revolution, it's revolution through education. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He wanted his country not just to be independent, but

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Speaker 1: to be independent and truly truly be independent in every

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Speaker 1: aspect um, you know, not just be free from an

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Speaker 1: oppressive government, but to be able to stand alone as

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Speaker 1: a nation. And he thought education was the only way

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Speaker 1: that they would be able to do that. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, some people do just think that this is

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Speaker 1: a different approach to nationalism um that he was taking.

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Speaker 1: So a good thing to do, though, if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in education is to start your own school, why not,

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Speaker 1: which is exactly what he did. And he did just that.

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Speaker 1: He founded an experimental school at Shanta Nikitan. It's a

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Speaker 1: small town in West Bengal which means a bode of peace.

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Speaker 1: And this wasn't his first experience with this town. His

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Speaker 1: dad I had founded a oshroom there, so he founded

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Speaker 1: a school there too. And his whole idea behind the

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Speaker 1: school was pretty much goes along with his philosophy that

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Speaker 1: he's had all along. You know. He felt that the

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Speaker 1: East and West needed each other, and so he wanted

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Speaker 1: to incorporate both types of thought into this school that

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Speaker 1: he had. So what he did is he got both

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Speaker 1: Indiana and Western scholars to teach there. And um, it

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Speaker 1: was a different kind of environment than had outdoor classes.

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Speaker 1: They had outdoor classes. That's pretty neat like the sound

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Speaker 1: of that. Um, But just because he's running this school

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Speaker 1: sounds like that would kind of keep you preoccupied. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he's not writing. He's still writing prolifically. Um

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately going through a few personal tragedies in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds. His wife died in nineteen o two. Incidentally,

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Speaker 1: they had gotten married when she was only ten years

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Speaker 1: old and he was twenty two. Um. And then after

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Speaker 1: his wife died, he also lost his father and two

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Speaker 1: of his children, all in this really short period of time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And it was the sadness resulting from these events that

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Speaker 1: inspired several poems. Song poems as They're sometimes called, which

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Speaker 1: he translated into English and published as a collection called

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Speaker 1: Joy in nineteen twelve. And some have said that the

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Speaker 1: fact that he did translate themselves is not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: good thing. Yeah, I mean they still sold well. Apparently

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Speaker 1: between March and November nineteen thirteen there were ten reprints. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, his his translations came under a lot of

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Speaker 1: scrutiny later. If if you've ever come across him in

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Speaker 1: a literature class or something and you're outside of India,

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Speaker 1: it might be some sort of comparison to WB. Yates.

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Speaker 1: And they were friends, if you could call it that,

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Speaker 1: for about thirty seven years. That had a really long

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Speaker 1: relationship with each other. And Yates is largely credited to

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Speaker 1: exposing him to the West, you know, introducing him to

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Speaker 1: the West and helping make him famous there. But they

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Speaker 1: had kind of a tumultuous friendship to say the least. Yep,

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Speaker 1: they actually met through William Rothenstein. He was an artist

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Speaker 1: who hosted to Gore in London in around thirteen so

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Speaker 1: around the time that he was publishing this translation and

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Speaker 1: When to Go arrived. He gave Rothenstein an English translation

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Speaker 1: of these poems and Rothenstein then sent them to Yates

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Speaker 1: and some other some other people about town. Yates apparently

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Speaker 1: loved them. He was really really into them. He apparently said, quote,

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Speaker 1: I've carried the translations of these manuscripts about with me

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Speaker 1: for days, reading it in railway trains or on top

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Speaker 1: of omnibuses or in restaurants, and I've often had to

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Speaker 1: close it less some strangers see how much it moved me. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. Maybe we should talk about Yates later.

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Speaker 1: Her opinion in a minute, Because this is the this

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Speaker 1: is to Gore's rising star at this point. This is

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Speaker 1: his fame starting to spread throughout the West as well

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Speaker 1: as the East. So people finally got to know him

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Speaker 1: through this. They finally got to know him through this

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Speaker 1: English translation and through people kind of spreading the word

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Speaker 1: about him, and it led I will not people spreading

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Speaker 1: the word, but just his talent, I guess led to

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Speaker 1: him winning the Noble Price for literature. As we mentioned,

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Speaker 1: he was the first Asian to receive such an honor,

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Speaker 1: and after that his fame kind of grew exponentially, fame

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Speaker 1: outside of India, that is, he was knighted by King George,

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Speaker 1: the fifth of Britain in nineteen fifteen, and he started

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Speaker 1: traveling abroad a lot more. He wasn't in India as

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Speaker 1: much as he used to be. He was doing lectures

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Speaker 1: and readings. He went to Europe, North America, South America, Asia,

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Speaker 1: East Asia, um, all over the place. So yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was one of the most famous Indians in the world

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Speaker 1: at this point, perhaps the most famous. But then, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: something really bad happened. On April thirteenth, nineteen nineteen, in

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Speaker 1: a Star, which is located in the state of Punjab

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Speaker 1: in India. British soldiers fired on an unarmed gathering of men,

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Speaker 1: women and children who had come into the city to

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Speaker 1: partake in a traditional Sikh festival. There was a peaceful

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Speaker 1: nationalist demonstration going on that day, but many of the

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Speaker 1: people who who were around, who were involved in the shooting,

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Speaker 1: they weren't even really a part of the demonstration exactly.

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Speaker 1: They were completely kind of innocent of whatever was going on.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of lives were lost, and we don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly how many. A lot of sources you look

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Speaker 1: at and I think the official number reported by the

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Speaker 1: British Raj was three seventy nine, but some people say

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Speaker 1: that it could have been as many as a thousand

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Speaker 1: or more well. And then the accounts of it in

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Speaker 1: the British press were especially disturbed, and you know, they

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Speaker 1: were treating it as though it had been a riot

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Speaker 1: and the people who were killed had gotten themselves into

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Speaker 1: trouble essentially, and people just had a very unfortunate reaction

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Speaker 1: to to the whole thing that went down. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was weird. It was a big cover up um for

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Speaker 1: obvious reasons. They didn't want people to know that this

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Speaker 1: had gone down the way it had, because there was

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Speaker 1: basically no reason for these people being killed, so they

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Speaker 1: had to spin it. They had to spin it and uh.

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Speaker 1: But then there were murmurings, of course, of what had

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Speaker 1: really happened throughout India and too Core caught wind of this,

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Speaker 1: and he was pretty disgusted by the entire situation and

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Speaker 1: it kind of changed his outlook and it definitely changed

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Speaker 1: the way he felt about being a British night. So

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Speaker 1: he wrote a letter to Lord Chelmsford, who was the

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Speaker 1: Viceroy of India at the time, and renounced his knighthood.

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Speaker 1: And if you read his letter, it's interesting because it

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Speaker 1: is so formal, so polite. It's very written in very

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Speaker 1: precise English, but I don't know. He's clearly very very

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Speaker 1: deeply disturbed by what's happened and can't reconcile being a

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Speaker 1: night with supporting this definitely. Um, we have a little

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Speaker 1: excerpt from the letter just to give you an idea

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Speaker 1: of how incensed he was via the situation. He says,

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Speaker 1: the very least I can do for my country to

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Speaker 1: take all consequences upon myself in giving voice to the

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Speaker 1: protest of millions of my countrymen surprised into dumb anguish

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Speaker 1: of terror. The time has come when badges of honor

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Speaker 1: make our shame glaring in their incongruous context of humiliation.

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Speaker 1: And I, for my part, wish to stand shorn of

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Speaker 1: all special distinctions by the side of those of my

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Speaker 1: countrymen who, for their so called insignificance, are liable to

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Speaker 1: suffer a degradation not fit for human beings. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: this was the end of this quote, total cooboration with

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Speaker 1: the British, and it changed people's opinions of him too. Um,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't the same guy anymore. And I mean we

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Speaker 1: can talk about that maybe first in a literary sense

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Speaker 1: with Yates, because people have suggested that this is part

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Speaker 1: of the reason why Yates's opinion of Tore soured. According

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Speaker 1: to Anna Jelna car To, Gore's resigning his knighthood just

384
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Speaker 1: didn't match up correctly with the idea Yates had of

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Speaker 1: him as this serene mystic from the east who certainly

386
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Speaker 1: wouldn't get involved in politics, certainly wouldn't do anything as

387
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Speaker 1: bold as renounced his knighthood. Um, it just didn't match

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Speaker 1: up with Yates is to Gore. And of course, I

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Speaker 1: mean we can assume there's some other reasons in here.

390
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: Yates really didn't like to Gore's translations. As we mentioned earlier, Um,

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Speaker 1: he was probably bound to be disappointed in this creation

392
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Speaker 1: he had imagined for himself, because to Gore did write

393
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Speaker 1: so much more than just romantic poetry. He wrote essays

394
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Speaker 1: and plays and prose. But I mean we have to

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Speaker 1: assume it did play a role. Yeah, I mean I

396
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Speaker 1: think it did. But I think at the same time

397
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Speaker 1: there had to be more to it. I mean, they

398
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: knew each other, so he must have known that there

399
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: was more to Gore than just this romantic literature and

400
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Speaker 1: poetry that he wrote. Um, he did a lot of

401
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: political writing, a lot of speaking, he was kind of

402
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 1: a voice for for the way he movement. He had

403
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Speaker 1: publicly promoted him though yep, I guess so that's true.

404
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: But I guess it was bound to happen, since to

405
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: Gore wrote other things anyway, so there was bound to

406
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Speaker 1: be some kind of falling out between them at some point.

407
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Speaker 1: But it changed. It changed what Yates thought of to Gore,

408
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: at least in the you know, outwardly, and it changed

409
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Speaker 1: I think what to Gore thought of his own views

410
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: a little bit too. Definitely, he didn't really he didn't

411
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Speaker 1: really change his views about the East and West needing

412
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Speaker 1: each other. He still thought that. He still thought, you know,

413
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Speaker 1: he wanted to see um kind of a universal land

414
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Speaker 1: where people all cultures would come together and there weren't

415
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Speaker 1: all these barriers between them. But at the same time,

416
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Speaker 1: I think he was very conflicted about the situation that happened,

417
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Speaker 1: especially because he had English friends and so it made

418
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Speaker 1: the situation kind of difficult for them, And he tried

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Speaker 1: to express these feelings through his work after the fact. Yeah,

420
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Speaker 1: and after this he kept on traveling, so he was

421
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Speaker 1: still out and about in the world very much. So

422
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Speaker 1: Um he said to have visited more than thirty countries

423
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Speaker 1: on five continents of lecturing and having these extended conversations

424
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Speaker 1: with people like Einstein on truth and beauty. They have

425
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Speaker 1: this amazing debate and music. I mean stuff that you

426
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Speaker 1: wouldn't even you know, think of Einstein talking about. Yeah,

427
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: but um, I mean to Gore's is all over the world.

428
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Speaker 1: He meets Mussolini and it takes them a little while

429
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: before he starts hearing reports about the fascism that's going

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00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: on in Italy from some exiles and denounces Mussolini. But yeah,

431
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: even and you know his his denunciations are still very

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00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: polite and proper interesting to read them. Yep. He never

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00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: loses his smooth talking never. Um. But so he this

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00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: going around the world is partially to speak because he's

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00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: asked and to to speak on behalf of the independence

436
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: movement UM. But it's also to earn money for his school.

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00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: He's still stumping for his cause, which is education, and

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00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: he's still out there trying to keep the school, the

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00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: six centric school that he started going UM and later

440
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: this school in Shanthan ni Kitan it becomes a university

441
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: called Visba Barathi University in nine UM and so he

442
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: has some success with that, but it's sort of peters

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00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: out as he. Um. Yeah, you were talking about able

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00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: to support it. What it's like today kind of more

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00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: of a place where you can learn about him than

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00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: a university. I think it's more to study his philosophies

447
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: and so forth than necessarily. But it does still exist. Yes,

448
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: you can still visit it today. Actually, I think that

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00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: India's recently nominated to be a World here UNESCO World

450
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: Heritage Site. You've been there. I've been there. I went

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00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: there when I was fourteen, Um, although I can't remember

452
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: too much unfortunately, but I do remember it being very

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00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: serene and um and uh liking it a lot. That's

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00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: the rule of the podcast. You always have to mention

455
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: the places have been too. It makes everybody think we're

456
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: going all over the world seeing all this stuff. Oh dear,

457
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: not really, guys, Um, But I don't know. Even with

458
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: all of this traveling around the world and promoting his

459
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: school and promoting his writings, he kind of kept his

460
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: distance from the more confrontational side of the nationalist movement.

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00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: He didn't get super involved in that. Even after this,

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00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: renouncing his knighthood and all that, No, he still to

463
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: his distance. Um. He was still part of it through

464
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: his writings and through his talks that he gave Um

465
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: and he was still friends with Gandhi of course, even

466
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: though he didn't necessarily support a reaction that he did

467
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: but Um, but he didn't get to to involved, and

468
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: unfortunately he passed away about seven years before India actually

469
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: achieved independence in ninety seven. But on the bright side,

470
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: maybe Um India's national anthem John a Ghanamana is based

471
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: on one of his song poems, and another of his songs,

472
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: am are Shownar bang La is Bangladesh's national anthem. Yeah,

473
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: so that's pretty impressive, I think. So he still gets

474
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. It's not easy to

475
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: forget him at all. He's still a big part of

476
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: the national culture. Every time they sing the national anthem

477
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: or hear it, they'll think of him and Um and

478
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: music art. Actually, an interesting fact about his art he

479
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: didn't take up painting until he was about seventy years old,

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00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: which I think is amazing. So he takes a painting

481
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: at age seventy. Yet somehow he managed to create about

482
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: two thousand paintings and drawings before he died around age eight.

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00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 1: He was busy so that's incredible. Thank you so much

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00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: for joining us today for this Saturday classic. If you

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00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: have heard any kind of email address or maybe a

486
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: Facebook you are l during the course of the episode,

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00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: that might be obsolete. It might be doubly obsolete because

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00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: we have changed our email address again. You can now

489
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: reach us at History podcast at i heart radio dot com,

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00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: and we're all over social media at missed in History

491
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: and you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts,

492
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: Google podcasts, the I heart radio app, and wherever else

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00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class

494
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

495
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Speaker 1: H