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Speaker 1: app now credd SRD SORR. Hey there, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve as usual

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Speaker 1: joint by Devin and Joe, and this week we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about something that is classified as a miracle by

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. So that makes it a mystery, does

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Speaker 1: because not everybody believes that the Church is right, and

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Speaker 1: this is known as the Miracle of the Son or

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Speaker 1: the Miracle of Fatima. I do want to say that

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Speaker 1: this was a listener's suggestion suggested by Mel, so thank you,

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Speaker 1: Mel appreciated this was a good one. So Here's what

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Speaker 1: happened is, according to accounts by witnesses, on the October

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen, as promised, a miracle took place. And what

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Speaker 1: that miracle was was that the sun appeared to dance

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Speaker 1: across the sky, to move closer to and then farther

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Speaker 1: away from the earth, and to shine in many different colors.

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Speaker 1: So that that is the miracle itself right there. Before

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Speaker 1: we talk about the miracle and the mushrooms, there's some

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Speaker 1: backstory we should cover that, so let's get that part first.

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Speaker 1: But quick disclaimer. Yeah, okay, So this story deals with

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Speaker 1: Catholic faith and religious iconography and practices, and I am

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Speaker 1: by no means an expert in that, and I've done

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Speaker 1: my best here, but if I flubb something, give me

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit of room here. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And also, as always with stories that are seated in

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Speaker 1: religious faith, I don't want anybody to take what we're

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Speaker 1: saying is in any way, shape or form mocking. That's

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Speaker 1: not the intention. We're simply talking about the subject at hand.

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Speaker 1: This is not, you know, something we're talking overarching about

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Speaker 1: the Catholic or any other religious faith. Just understand that

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Speaker 1: we love everyone except for Nazis. Yeah, lots of things.

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Speaker 1: We can't go into that now, okay, so let's go

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Speaker 1: into this instead. So our story takes place in the

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Speaker 1: little town of Fatima in Portugal. There were in the

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Speaker 1: spring of nineteen sixteen or nine seventeen, excuse me, three children.

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Speaker 1: It's ten year old Lucia Santos and her cousins, seven

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Speaker 1: year old Jacinta and nine year old Francisco Marto. They

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Speaker 1: were watching Lucia's father's flock of sheep in an area

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Speaker 1: that is locally known as covid Aria. I hope, I

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Speaker 1: that's I think that's what I remember hearing it, but

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong. But translated that translates to the

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Speaker 1: cove of Irene in English. The accounts of their day vary.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole as with it. A story like this

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Speaker 1: and of this age. There's always variations because they're like

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Speaker 1: you know, ten and seven right well, and so most

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Speaker 1: of the stories they say that they lead the flock

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Speaker 1: to the cove and then they ate their lunch and

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Speaker 1: they played. Some versions say they spent time under a

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Speaker 1: large tree. Others say that they spent time in a

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Speaker 1: cave to avoid a rainstorm. Either way, at around noon,

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Speaker 1: the three children said their rosaries their prayers, and at

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Speaker 1: that point they said they saw an apparition which was

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Speaker 1: bright light that to them looked like lightning. But they

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Speaker 1: said that was weird because it wasn't cloudy, which means

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Speaker 1: that must not have been raining. Probably I'm thinking this

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Speaker 1: is the non rain storm because it was raining, it

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Speaker 1: might have just been lightning, right exactly, so, but no, okay,

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Speaker 1: So there's so in this accounting, it seems that maybe

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Speaker 1: this is a non raining version, so that that bright

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Speaker 1: light happens, and in it they see a figure and

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Speaker 1: they approached that figure. The figure doesn't immediately identify itself,

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Speaker 1: but eventually they would come to to find out that

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Speaker 1: Bruce Willis, it's not Bruce Willis. Eventually they would come

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Speaker 1: to discover that it was the Virgin Mary, the mother

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Speaker 1: of Jesus. She told the children that she wanted them

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Speaker 1: to and she gave them a set of instructions. Those

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Speaker 1: instructions were to say they're rosaries every day and to

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Speaker 1: come back to that location on thet of each month

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Speaker 1: for a total of six months, and in exchange, she

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Speaker 1: would share not only her identity because at this point

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Speaker 1: don't know who she is, but they would She would

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Speaker 1: also impart to them knowledge. She would give them some

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Speaker 1: visions and then eventually they would ask through their meetings,

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Speaker 1: they would then ask, you know, for proof, and then

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Speaker 1: that's where the miracle of the sun happened. It was

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Speaker 1: on the seventh month. So once Mary has done sharing

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Speaker 1: her vision, she rises into the sky and halo of

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Speaker 1: bright light and disappears into the distance, and that's their

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Speaker 1: first encounter with the Virgin Mary. They do need to

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Speaker 1: point out so as Devin briefly mentioned, they are ten,

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Speaker 1: nine and seven, so their accountings. How accurate this is,

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Speaker 1: it is hard to say. The other problem with it

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Speaker 1: is that all of this story primarily and its written

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Speaker 1: form comes from Lucia Santos, because she would write down

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Speaker 1: an accounting of what happened in her visions twenty some

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Speaker 1: years after the fact, so a little bit of fact

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Speaker 1: in fiction time. It's hard to piece the two apart um.

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Speaker 1: But she said, at least in the accounting, is that

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Speaker 1: this was not the first time that the children had

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Speaker 1: been visited by an apparition. In the prior year nineteen sixteen,

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Speaker 1: they had been visited by an angel on three separate occasions,

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Speaker 1: which appears to be in preparation for their meeting with

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Speaker 1: Mary screen the Holy screaming that maybe it UM. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I've truncated the heck out of the encounters

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Speaker 1: and what was said, and if anybody's interested in that,

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Speaker 1: will put a link on the website that has the

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Speaker 1: text included. You may also be familiar with UM, a

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Speaker 1: televised rendition of this story. Yes that I will not

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Speaker 1: say exactly what it is, but you probably have seen it.

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Speaker 1: Probably so continuing on UM so that the children hold

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Speaker 1: up there into the deal. They pray the rosaries every day,

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Speaker 1: and they plan to go back on the thirteenth of

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Speaker 1: the month. And they do go back on the thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of each month, and people, somehow word gets out about

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Speaker 1: what they say they saw. I d told everybody, well

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Speaker 1: at least one of them spilled the beans, and then

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Speaker 1: word got around, and so witnesses, people who wanted to

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Speaker 1: witness what the children were seeing, would show up on

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Speaker 1: the thirteenth around noon to see it as well. It's

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Speaker 1: unclear to me if anybody besides the children was seeing her.

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Speaker 1: The accounts that I've read of this is that lots

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Speaker 1: of people kept going back every month and more and

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Speaker 1: more all the time, and nobody else ever saw the

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Speaker 1: vision Mary besides the kids. That was my understanding as well.

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Speaker 1: But it was also my understand that there were a

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Speaker 1: number of people who believed that it was okay that

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Speaker 1: they weren't being given the gift of seeing the kids

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Speaker 1: interact with her or whatever was like proof enough that

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Speaker 1: it was actually happening in their eyes at least. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Some people were also like, I can't see here, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? Yeah, there's nothing going on here that's obviously

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Speaker 1: not real, and they'd leave it off. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm making if it is really you know, what's the

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Speaker 1: point of being here? If you know she's not going

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Speaker 1: to show yourself to me, I might as well go

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Speaker 1: ahead and read about it later. Yeah, it's very time

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Speaker 1: standing around here. Yeah. So, through these encounters, Mary would

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Speaker 1: eventually share the visions with the children. Visions one and

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Speaker 1: two where the visions of what heaven looked like and

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Speaker 1: what hell looked like. Vision three is weird, and it

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Speaker 1: didn't come out till the She didn't write and tell

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Speaker 1: share what it was Lucia until the mid forties, maybe

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Speaker 1: the late mid I thought it was like but the

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Speaker 1: Church didn't release it until the sixties. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was like late thirties, but I could be wrong. Yeah. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, because the church sealed it right away

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Speaker 1: and they wouldn't let it out because of course it

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Speaker 1: was time sensitive, I guess because it was talked about

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Speaker 1: the war, like you know, World War Two at that time.

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Speaker 1: But it what's really weird about it is that it

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Speaker 1: talks about the role of Russia in the world, and

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Speaker 1: how if they I'm in my interpretation or understanding of this,

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Speaker 1: how if they didn't take on Catholicism properly, they were

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Speaker 1: going to lead the world down a wrong path? What's

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Speaker 1: they kind of did? She was right well in the

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Speaker 1: way she was, but a lot of people have interpreted

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Speaker 1: her message and there's been ridicule of this third message.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know what to think of it. It's

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Speaker 1: very confusing to me, but I'm not very good with

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Speaker 1: with these kind of theology things. So well, the thing

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Speaker 1: about it is is that if she did indeed right

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Speaker 1: it twenty years later, and I think she did that,

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Speaker 1: it was well known by that point at what that

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Speaker 1: what path Russia was on, So it's kind of it

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Speaker 1: doesn't look that miraculous, like that miraculous of prediction really,

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Speaker 1: even though lots of it came true. Well you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: you read the papers, you get an idea you're writing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be miraculous if in nineteen seventeen, though the

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Speaker 1: Russian Revolution was happening and nobody knew that it was

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Speaker 1: going to turn out to be hell on Earth and

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Speaker 1: the way it did, right yeah, yeah, which and maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe when she first wrote it, maybe she wrote had

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Speaker 1: a version of early memo of it, and that's why

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Speaker 1: the church seal didn't said, you can't write all this

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Speaker 1: till later on. I have no idea. And the recording

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Speaker 1: of it again, there are so many versions that it

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Speaker 1: makes it really tough. Yeah, okay, I mean that we've

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Speaker 1: started to fall down a is theological, Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a theological rabbit hole. We started to fall down that,

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Speaker 1: and I think we need to kind of dance around

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Speaker 1: that because that's not really the focus of the episode.

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Speaker 1: The miracle of the sun itself is um. So this

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Speaker 1: is uh. The children were told that on the thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of October seventeen, that would have been the seventh month, right,

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Speaker 1: that would be the seventh month, really really badass in

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Speaker 1: her own work. To quote her directly, she didn't use

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Speaker 1: that word. She did. Yeah, she was gonna make a

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Speaker 1: miracle happen at noon. Yeah. Okay. So like with the appearances,

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Speaker 1: the early visits of Mary, when the children we were

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Speaker 1: talking about, people were showing up, A bunch of people

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Speaker 1: showed up because this miracle. They blabbed and told everybody.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how many people were really there. The

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Speaker 1: it is recorded as somewhere between ten thousand and one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were there a lot. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how big the covid irene was, but

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Speaker 1: it seems to me it wasn't big enough for d Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really I don't. I don't think it could have

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Speaker 1: sat that many. And that's like a hundred times more

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Speaker 1: listeners than we have, so I don't think, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: not possible. I think that doesn't. That actually took me

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Speaker 1: off as three three annoying little kids and had more listeners.

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Speaker 1: But but no. So so all of these people show

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Speaker 1: up to witness the miracle and accounts say, okay, again,

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Speaker 1: this is where it varies. Either it started reigning the

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Speaker 1: night before or the morning of the predicted miracle, but

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Speaker 1: the rain would stop just before noon. The ground was

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Speaker 1: wet with from the rain. And there are photos and

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Speaker 1: you see people with umbrellas, but I think I've only

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Speaker 1: seen one photo actually where people had umbrellas. I've seen

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Speaker 1: two or three, but you know, it's it's not a

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Speaker 1: time and an air where people had umbrellas with them.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's part of fashion. So it's hard to say,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like a clear day to me in

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Speaker 1: those images. It doesn't look like it's cloudy. It actually

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Speaker 1: kind of looks like a nice, bright sunny day, to

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Speaker 1: be very honest. Sports ago, I understand the whether there

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Speaker 1: was kind of nice. Yeah, and at that time of

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Speaker 1: years we'll talk about later. It's not really a bad season.

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Speaker 1: But regardless of what the weather was at noon, everyone

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Speaker 1: looked up towards the sun because it was clear baby

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Speaker 1: that so they looked up at the sun to see

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Speaker 1: the miracle take place. And here's what they say they saw.

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Speaker 1: People say they the sun appear as an opaque spinning

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Speaker 1: disc in the sky. That the spinning wheel of death.

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Speaker 1: I got on my computer sometimes. Yeah, but it goes

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Speaker 1: much faster than that, so it doesn't have all the

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Speaker 1: colors obvious. No, so it was a spinning disc in

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Speaker 1: the sky. It was said to be significantly duller than normal,

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Speaker 1: and it also supposedly cast multi colored lights on everything,

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Speaker 1: so the landscape, the people, the surrounding clouds. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: sun was also reported to koreem towards the landscape and

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Speaker 1: the people, and then to bounce around in the surrounding

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Speaker 1: or sky before going back to its normal position. The

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Speaker 1: previously wet clothes of people who were there, as well

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Speaker 1: as the ground from the rainstorm they were wet, dried

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Speaker 1: out because the sun got closer and so it got

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Speaker 1: warm and it dried them all out, so it was

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Speaker 1: suddenly incompletely dry. But just like the earlier visions, not

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Speaker 1: all of the people who were there say they a

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Speaker 1: something happened. Some of the a lot of them would

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Speaker 1: report one of those things, but not all of those things.

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Speaker 1: But a great many people also said I didn't see anything,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not insure entirely sure either. How long this

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Speaker 1: whole thing lasted. Did it take a minute, did it

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Speaker 1: take ten We don't know. But the people who were there,

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Speaker 1: a great majority of them were convinced that it truly

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Speaker 1: was a miracle proabn for ten minutes straight. I really

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Speaker 1: hope that's really bad for you. Don't do that. We

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Speaker 1: just had an eclipse. Everybody knows sun safety, good glasses,

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Speaker 1: don't stare at the sun. Don't do it because it

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Speaker 1: embarrasses the sun. Staring as rude. Good. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of the information that we have about the miracle of

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Speaker 1: the Sun was done because an Italian priest named father,

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Speaker 1: Oh God help me here, John Demarci, Right, marcias the

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Speaker 1: middle of the still allibles always just say it like

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Luigi, John Demarci. I mean, honestly, yes, we'll

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Speaker 1: go with that. Sorry. So John de Marchi would research

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Speaker 1: the miracle of the Sun, and he would interview a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of people who were there that day. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: he didn't start doing this until six years after the fact,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of a long time to get their

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Speaker 1: stories straight. To let him grow. If you wander him, write,

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Speaker 1: your stories will always grow. So he spent about seven

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Speaker 1: years researching the miracle, and he actually wrote more than

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Speaker 1: one book about it. But I'm going to take a

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Speaker 1: couple of quotes of what people said they saw, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna share him here just so you can get it.

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Speaker 1: Kind of a direct quote idea. I want you to

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Speaker 1: to help me. So who wants to start? You want

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Speaker 1: me to start? When you want can start. The Sun,

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Speaker 1: at one moment, surrounded with scarlet flame, at another are

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Speaker 1: old in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be an

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Speaker 1: exceedingly swift and whirling movement, and at times appearing to

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Speaker 1: be loose from the sky and to be approaching the

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Speaker 1: earth strongly radiating heat. Nice, I'll do the next one,

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Speaker 1: all right. The Sun's disc did not remain a mobile.

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Speaker 1: This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for

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Speaker 1: it spun round on itself in a mad whirld. When

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Speaker 1: suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun,

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Speaker 1: whirling seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance,

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Speaker 1: threatening upon the earth, as if to crash to crush

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Speaker 1: us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those

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Speaker 1: moments was terrible. Mushrooms. Oh okay, my turn, I feel

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Speaker 1: incapable of describing what I saw. I looked fixedly at

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Speaker 1: the Sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt my eyes,

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Speaker 1: looking like a ball of snow. Revolving on itself. It

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Speaker 1: suddenly seemed to come down in a zigzag, menacing the earth. Terrified,

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Speaker 1: I ran and hid myself among the people who are

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Speaker 1: weeping and expecting the end of the world at any

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Speaker 1: moment unquote. Yeah, So if I gotta say, you know,

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Speaker 1: when the sun's crashing into the earth, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: go hide in the crowd. That'll save me. I So

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Speaker 1: there's yeah, no, I mean, but this kind of gives

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Speaker 1: you an idea of the way, at least in their

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Speaker 1: account recollections words things in their recollections, how they remembered

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Speaker 1: what they saw and felt. So the Catholic Church, as

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Speaker 1: we said, would eventually come to recognize and accept the

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Speaker 1: miracle of the sun. They categorize it as an event

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Speaker 1: of genuine supernatural character. That's evidently how their categorization. Catholics

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Speaker 1: speak yep for miracles. This obviously, though, didn't happen right away.

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Speaker 1: The Catholics, they actually going to have to look in Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they actually investigate stuff crazy. But in nineteen thirty Pope

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Speaker 1: Pious the eleventh would approve the whole thing. What's kind

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Speaker 1: of funny, though, is that in nineteen fifty Pope Pious

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Speaker 1: the twelfth, because it was Pious the eleventh and thirty,

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Speaker 1: and then I think Pious the eleventh died in their

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Speaker 1: nine so the twelve came on, so Pious the twelfth.

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Speaker 1: Though in nineteen fifty he actually said that he also

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Speaker 1: saw the miracle of the Sun in nineteen fifty while

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Speaker 1: he was, you know, walking around. I can't remember what

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Speaker 1: religious ceremony he was at, but he walked and he

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Speaker 1: was in front of the statue of our Lady of Lards.

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Speaker 1: I believes how you pronounced that one when he witnessed it,

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Speaker 1: And he witnessed it three days in a row, which

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Speaker 1: is funny, Like, hey, I want to get on the bandwagon.

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Speaker 1: I want to see a way more needs something you

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Speaker 1: people do like it just seems a weird thing to

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Speaker 1: forty years later, suddenly claimed to start seeing well, Pope

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Speaker 1: Pius the twelve had a different name, and it was

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Speaker 1: Pope the Overachiever. They called him. That did they um?

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Speaker 1: All right, so let's go back to the day of

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Speaker 1: the event. Though after everything settled down, everyone seems to

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Speaker 1: have left and gone back of their lives as normal. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: for Jacinta and Francisco Marto, they came down with influenza

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Speaker 1: and died in nineteen nineteen. A lot of people we've

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Speaker 1: talked about Lucia Santo's would end up devoting the rest

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Speaker 1: of her life to religion. She lived as a sister

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Speaker 1: until her death in two thousand and five. So she

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Speaker 1: lived well into her nineties something like that. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: lived an amazingly long life. Um. And so that leads

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Speaker 1: us with a question of you know what happened he did?

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Speaker 1: Did people really see your miracle on that day in

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Speaker 1: October nineteen seventeen or did they not. We're gonna look

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Speaker 1: into it, but first we're gonna take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: all right, folks. So holidays, they are finally past us.

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00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: We're all just a little cheppier than we were before.

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00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 1: And of course we've all got those New Year's resolutions

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00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 1: to keep, uh, and it's hard sometimes. I'm sure you're

339
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340
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Speaker 1: a miracle. Alright, So theory time really is going to

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Speaker 1: break down very simply into two theories. It's real or

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Speaker 1: it's not. Okay, pretty much. That's really the only two

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Speaker 1: directions this can go. So first off, let's be honest

364
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Speaker 1: here and admit that none of us really actually know

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Speaker 1: how deities work. And it is entirely possible, especially from

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Speaker 1: a believer's perspective, that the Virgin Mary could have the

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Speaker 1: power to alter human senses. So if you follow that

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Speaker 1: train of logic, then it's possible that the sun did

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Speaker 1: not actually move in the sky, but she made it

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Speaker 1: appear to do that, which would be the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: a heavenly parlor trick. I mean, that's that's it's a

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Speaker 1: vision at that point, absolutely. I mean obviously in that

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Speaker 1: sense too, it's real that that the sun really zigzag

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Speaker 1: and come closer to the Earth. Well, obviously it didn't

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Speaker 1: because billions of people would have seen that, correct. But still,

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Speaker 1: you know, if the version of Mary, as you said,

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Speaker 1: can actually make everybody see the same thing, it's akin

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Speaker 1: to a mass hallucination. You know, you'll all be given

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00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: the same thing, except of course not everybody saw it,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it was customized to the level of the believer,

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Speaker 1: and you know where you worthy of receiving it or not.

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Speaker 1: We we we honestly can't say that we know the

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Speaker 1: answer to that, right. One of the things that makes

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Speaker 1: it look like not maybe so much is the well

385
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: we've talked about this little bit, is that there's the

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Speaker 1: photos and it looks like a bright sunny day. Problem

387
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: is with the photos is we don't actually we don't

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Speaker 1: know when they were taken. I always presumed at the

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00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: beginning that those were taken before of the miracle, but

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00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: we don't actually know if those photos weren't taken after

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00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: the miracle had taken place. So that might explain why

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00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: it's not wet while the people kneeling on the ground,

393
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: because the ground is dried. They've dried, the sun has

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00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: come out and is super bright. It happened the photos

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00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: were taken afterwards, or they could have been taken long afterwards,

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00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: because I mean, the you know, this didn't become a

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00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: big story until after And that's one probably reporters and

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00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: photographers studied going up there. Well, they were all their

399
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: pre before the actual reporters because because word had spread

400
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Speaker 1: across the country, across Portugal, so people came from all

401
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: over the country. That's how we got to this summer

402
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: between ten to a hundred thousand visitors, and part of

403
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: those guys were part of the press. They also might

404
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: be part of the problem, and they're the ones who

405
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: were spreading the rumors of the size of the event.

406
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: So it made That's why I say, I don't I

407
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: mean probably know there was a thousand people there. I

408
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: don't know, but there were reporters there who gave firsthand

409
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: account reports was a decent little crowd, and no doubt

410
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: it was exaggerated. That happens. Yeah, I mean, so that's

411
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: really what I have here. I don't know if you

412
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: guys have any more to add to the what could

413
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: make it have actually been a real event. Well, I mean,

414
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, there's no it's hard

415
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: to like argue this right because we don't have proof. Clearly,

416
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: the classic Catholic Church feels there proof is strong enough

417
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: because they do. I mean, Joe was saying, like they

418
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: really do actually investigate and actually try to find proof

419
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: of these things, and you know, from multiple sources. But really,

420
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, it's real just means

421
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: hey take on faith that this deity did this thing right.

422
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: So it's much easier to say, here's all of the

423
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: reasons we think it's fake, but it could be real

424
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: if you believe in that sort of thing. And I

425
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: read there's one side. I know, I shared it with

426
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: you guys that read. I at first thought it was

427
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: it was on the side of this whole thing was fake,

428
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: And it turned out I very quickly learned it was

429
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: a debunking of the debunking of the story, and it

430
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: actually yeah, and it had a whole lot of stuff

431
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: of you know, information from the Bible and from scriptures

432
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: to prove to counteract the negative claims were made. And

433
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: the problem, I would say that the problem, but the

434
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: difficulty is, of course, how do you say that that's

435
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: not right? Because I don't know. So that's that's why

436
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: this isn't interesting, right, is because we can well, I know,

437
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: we're about to talk about here's all the reasons we

438
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: think it's not it's not real. But yeah, there are

439
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: plenty of people out there who have, you know, evidence

440
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: or their version of evidence or whatever. It's a leap

441
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: of faith. Yeah, that's what miracles are. Yes, and yeah, exactly,

442
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: and so like the just a mere fact that all

443
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: these people went there expecting to see it, they were,

444
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, wanting to see it, and they saw it. Yeah,

445
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: there you go, like you say, But that's where the

446
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: others as not real. I am not about to disagree

447
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: with the Vatican. So you guys are you guys are

448
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: on your own? Okay, Well, from here on out, we're

449
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: solo without Joe's I think it's just you because I

450
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,959
Speaker 1: also would like not to get killed by the Vatican.

451
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: Find you too, I'll finish this one on my own,

452
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: going ahead and leave, okay, not really Okay, Well, let's

453
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: go on to the second theory, though, which is that

454
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: it did not actually happen. Comes home first and foremost.

455
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: I think we all know that the sun does not

456
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: normally move radically through the sky, and as Joe said earlier,

457
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: nobody else on the planet or even the surrounding countryside

458
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: reported seeing the sun fly all over. Yeah. I would

459
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: think that it would be pretty obvious. So that is

460
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: an immediate strike against the story. Uh. If you remember

461
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: I talked about supposedly there was a big rainstorm right

462
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: before and how it ended just before the miracle. Well,

463
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: I actually was able to pull historical rainfall records from

464
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: the area. Turns out, in nineteen seventeen, in that area

465
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: of Portugal, they got a total of thirty three millimeters,

466
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: which is about an inch and a half of rain

467
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: that month, and the month before it was only nine

468
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: millimeters or point three five of an inch. So the

469
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: accounting say the ground was sodden from all of the

470
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: rain that fell. Well, that seems to me like that

471
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: would that would take a lot more rain than what's

472
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: listed here. And this is the rain over the course

473
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: of a month. I don't know, I mean technically, yes,

474
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: of course of a month. It could have all been

475
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: one one rainy day. Fair And granted we live in

476
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: a pretty rainy place, and you know, an inch and

477
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: a half of rain doesn't sound like a ton, but uh,

478
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, you remember, like the first rain after a

479
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: big drought, how the ground just doesn't soak anything up.

480
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like sits on top of it

481
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: for a little bit. I mean, you know, it's possible

482
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: if it was a kind of a droughty time. But

483
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: I agree, I think it's I just think the accounts

484
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: of this, this torrential rain storm might be a bit overblown.

485
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: Well here's another thing to think about, is if they

486
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: don't get a lot of rain there an inch of

487
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: rain or even a half of inch of rain. It's

488
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: one day. That seems like a lot, right, But but

489
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: to us it seems like nothing. True, So that's possible

490
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: to actual even for us. And an inch and half

491
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: in a day is a substantial amount, I suppose. Yeah,

492
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: we just got a whole bunch of it today and

493
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: it came down and just droves. Yeah, so let's let's

494
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: keep talking. We've we've talked about the photos a couple

495
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: of times. I do want to point out one thing

496
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: to everybody, which is when you look up the Miracle

497
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: of the Sun online, you will find a photo out

498
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: there that was found in the nineteen fifties that is

499
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: taken on the day of the Miracle of the Sun.

500
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: At least it says it was taken on the day

501
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: of the Miracle of the Sun. And the sun looks weird,

502
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: almost looks like somebody's put a twirl blur filter on

503
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: the Sun. It's kind of it's kind of turns on itself.

504
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: Take a little photoshopping, might have got down. No, it's

505
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: actually not of that day. It is of a solar eclipse.

506
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: So it is a weird light effect caused by the

507
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: solar eclipse that happened many years later. So if you

508
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: see that, and like I kept seeing the same one,

509
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: come up where someone I love this when people get

510
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: into MS paint or whatever and they draw the arrow

511
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: and then they it's it'sn't red and the text isn't

512
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: red on top of it, kept same one over and

513
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: over and over, but it is it is not from

514
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: that time. So I would just want to have you

515
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: understand that from from the outset. Well, you'll be happy

516
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: to know that MS paint no longer exists. Yes, I

517
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: am actually very happy about that. Uh So here's here's

518
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: another explanation of why this might not be real and

519
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: what people saw. This is a good explanation of what

520
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: people saw, which putting it very simply is staring at

521
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: the sun is bad for you and you shouldn't do it.

522
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: We've all looked at the sun momentarily by accident, and

523
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 1: you get that burned after image of the sun on

524
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: your retinas, and then you know, you look around and

525
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: that spot moves around. So it is entirely possible that

526
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: these people were staring at the sun in anticipation, well

527
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: past the point of normal sanity and when it affected

528
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: their eyes. So when they were looking around the sun

529
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: seemed to change and or move, and believe it or not,

530
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: there are actually accounts out there of people who in

531
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: some um some religious event, we're told to stare at

532
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: the sun to receive some message, and they stared at

533
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: it way too long, and a couple of people have

534
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: gone blind, but a lot but more of them have

535
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: actually suffered serious vision damage. Can't you stare at the sun?

536
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: Because I've never stared at it for more than a

537
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: millisecond myself, I think, yeah, I think that if you

538
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: stare at it for a minute, you're in trouble unless

539
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: you use your hand to kind of block it out

540
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of it and you're getting that that

541
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: light bend things. Don't do that. I'm sorry. I knew

542
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: a guy when I was in school. He was arc welding,

543
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: and he was arc welding without the mass and he

544
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: did it for about a minute and a half and

545
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: he burned his eyes and he had to lay around

546
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: with you know, his eyes closed and cold compresses on

547
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: his eyes for about a week. He never did it again.

548
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: I didn't think he was smart as trying to start with,

549
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: but he never did it again. I mean, he was

550
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: lucky that he didn't do serious lasting damage to his eyes. So,

551
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: but if you think about it, that would then tell

552
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: you why these people are seeing these things. You know

553
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: why it seems to move and grow and dance around,

554
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: the dance around the skies as you looked at that

555
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: after images moving around, and you know it's that dog

556
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: of if you, if you are a true believer enough,

557
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: you will be given the vision. So that encourages these

558
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: people to do it longer than they really should have.

559
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: Is doc moother right term for that? I don't know that. Actually,

560
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: dogma might not be the right term there. Yeah, maybe not.

561
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: I'll strike the word dogma from the record. I just

562
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: put something or another. Yes, there we go. Um okay.

563
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: Next up in this theory section, and this is pretty

564
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: simple and easy to riff on, is um group speaker

565
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: that that mass belief group think. People are going, oh

566
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: my god, do you see that next thing? And everybody's

567
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: like ticking. No, I must be okay, yeah, I must

568
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: not be blessed enough yeah to see something right, Oh dang,

569
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: don't want to seem unblessed. Well, yeah, of course, yeah

570
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: I see it. Yeah, Oh my gosh, it's spinning right

571
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: at me. It's so scary it's it's the same thing

572
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: is that you see. You guys have read about or

573
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: seeing those experiments where people will be in the city

574
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: and they'll just stare at the top of a building

575
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: and then people crowd around him, and slowly they build

576
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: the crowd and then let's walk away, and the crowd

577
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: will just actually because they're all trying to figure out

578
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: what's out there. The one I like is the one

579
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: in the waiting room where they like, every time a

580
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: noises made, everybody stands up, and then they introduced like

581
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: one person and everybody else gets called into the doctor's office,

582
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: and that person is still like habitually standing up and

583
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: down as the noises being made, even though they have

584
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: no idea why they're doing it. It's crazy. Humans are crazy,

585
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: and he never thinks to ask, like, why are you

586
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: people standing up? Yeah, we easily, we easily follow instruction.

587
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: It turns out it doesn't even have to be an

588
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: actual instruction. We just mirror people's behavior. That's kind of scary. Yeah. Um,

589
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: So the next two parts of this are more they're

590
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: less addressing the movement of the sun and more they're

591
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: talking about that reported color changing. Because if you remember

592
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: the people reported the sun seemed much paler than normal,

593
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: and then there's the color changes that are going on.

594
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: One count or one set of reporting says that possibly

595
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: what's going on is that sand from the Sahara Desert

596
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: is pulled up into the atmosphere and then blown across

597
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: at that time at that place, so it's blotting out

598
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: the sun. And then as that, you know, as it

599
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: thins out, the silica or the crystalline structure of the

600
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: sand is actually creating reflections or refractions of the lights.

601
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: It's acting like a prism. And that could but be

602
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: what these people are seeing that are causing these big

603
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: bands of color or these these casts of color on

604
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: not only the clouds, but maybe the people in the

605
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: ground around them. What about like, I mean, this happens

606
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: in Portland a lot where it'll be raining, but you

607
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: look up and you're like, there's not a cloud above me,

608
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: and what's going on? And then you look at this

609
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: sun you go, oh, look at that cool rainbow dancing

610
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: around over there. I mean, what about something like that,

611
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,479
Speaker 1: especially if it had been raining prior and we will

612
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: that's actually the next up in this section. Oh we

613
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: got that dog not Yeah, Well, the one thing I

614
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: do want to say real quick though about the whole

615
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: duster sand thing, is that if that was what it was,

616
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: I would expect to have found more accounts of this

617
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: kind of colored light. Yeah. But the thing about it is, though,

618
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: is that, you know, you would think it would happen

619
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: more often, not just that one day. But let's say

620
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: there was an especially you know, big sandstorm that day

621
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: and conditions were sets that way more than usually got

622
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: sucked up into the jet stream or whatever. But the

623
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: fact that and the fact of the matter is is

624
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: that people all over the place in Portugal, Spain, wherever

625
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: it could have seen this, but everybody else was just

626
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: doing their jobs or else they were taking a napsis

627
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, only in this one place where

628
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: there are thousands of people standing there staring up in

629
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: the sky. You know, although I will say that it's

630
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: a pretty incredible coincidence that that giant sandstorm happened to happen.

631
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the miracle. Maybe it was the miracle, and

632
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: that was America is a natural miracle. Yeah, maybe maybe not,

633
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. So let's move to what Joe was

634
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: just talking about. The sun dogs, which helped me out here.

635
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: Do either of you know how to print par helion?

636
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: I believe is that that's that's the kind of event

637
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: that a sun dog is. So those of you who

638
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: don't know, sun dogs are kind of a rainbow. But

639
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: they happen in rings around the sun. They form rings

640
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: or halos where and they only happen when there's sufficient

641
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: ice crystals in the upper atmosphere too. Again, just like

642
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: with the sand theory, refract and reflect the light and

643
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: turn it kind of into a prism effect. And by

644
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: the way, the moon does it off also occasionally. Usually,

645
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: but they're they're pretty hard to see. Yeah, I'm some

646
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: pretty good ones that they stood out pretty good. Yeah, yeah,

647
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it's but it's the same effect

648
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: that there's enough cold ice crystals up there to to

649
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: create that, hey, or the prism effect. Uh. And sometimes

650
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: sun dogs will fully circle the sun. I don't know.

651
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: I think I showed you guys that photo I took

652
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: several years back where I've actually got had to hold

653
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: up my hand in front of my camera to block

654
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: out the sun and then you can see the full

655
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: degree ring. And sun dogs typically they start out uh God,

656
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: is I think they Yeah, they start out they cycle

657
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: from orange in the center and then they go out

658
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: towards blue as they get farther away from the center

659
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: of the circle. Yeah, but there are also other ones

660
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: which are much cooler looking, and these have to be

661
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: at a perfect degree angle apparently. But on the left

662
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: and the right side you'll get these giant arcs that

663
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: are super bright and so they're kind of a warped

664
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: diamond shape and they are phenomenal. I saw a photo

665
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: not but three weeks ago, and it was somebody up

666
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 1: on some ski slope and everybody at slope just stopped

667
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: because it was just so bright and so clear, and

668
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: there's just really cool sun dog. So that kind of

669
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: thing is the other one that people are like, Listen,

670
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: maybe the sun moving around wasn't real, but maybe people

671
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: really did see colors, but not knowing how to explain it,

672
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: that's what they say. Well, maybe it was a combination

673
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: of a couple of things, right, I mean, I think

674
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: it's safe to say it's possible that it was a

675
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: sun dog or something like that. Again, do sun dogs

676
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: typically happen at noontime? Yeah? Yeah, sun dogs are not

677
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: as far. I mean, the one that I saw like

678
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: around noon it just you know, in general, maybe it

679
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: was or whatever. Again, a pretty big coincidence and lucky

680
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: for those kids that something happened on that day. But um,

681
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: but you know, and then a combination with a bunch

682
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: of people being like, oh my god, that's so cool,

683
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: that's that's a miracle and staring at the sun even more,

684
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: and then you know, it's it kind of helps explain

685
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: why some people maybe didn't see anything because they were like,

686
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to look at the sun, I'm gonna

687
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: glance at it, and they didn't see any thing. Other

688
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: people saw these dancing things because they were staring at

689
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: the sun and burning their eyes, and other people just

690
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: saw light. And I mean, I don't know if that

691
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: helps explain all the different experience it could, you know,

692
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: doing things differently, because people always do different things differently

693
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: from one another, even an event like that. I mean,

694
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: it's that old thing if we could all go to,

695
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, see a speaker talk and only one of

696
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: us might see the bird that lands on the side

697
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: of the stage because we're looking here and there, I'm

698
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: doing something or I'm drinking my coke or whatever it is.

699
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's possible that that's why there

700
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: are all those different accounts. I the sun Dog is

701
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: the only thing that I can really get behind in

702
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: this entire story. I think that it's an amazing, amazing

703
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: coincidence that all of these people were here, as we

704
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: said before, maybe that's the real miracles that they all

705
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: happen to be in one place at the right time

706
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: to see it. Oh yeah, and just an amazing and

707
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: coincidence or or and uh, you know, I think this

708
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: has some supports that we'll see as little friends, Francisco Marto,

709
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: we're actually little entrepreneurs that they were selling kool aid

710
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: at that at the place that they want and let's

711
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: say the mushroom with mushroom mushrooms, and so I think

712
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: that you know, that's what it was. It was air

713
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: got ergo, Yeah, I got because everybody came and they

714
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: had to eat the bread, and everyone was like, we're

715
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: doing we're going a new communion. So here's your little

716
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: pieces of bread, and everybody got like a little high

717
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: and then yeah, well yeah, if if if there were,

718
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: if there actually that's conceivable, even though again it's a

719
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: remarkable coincidence, but it's conceivable because then that explains why

720
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: some people didn't experience it because some people would have

721
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: brought their own bread, you know, far away, and other

722
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: people ate some bots of bread locally and ate it

723
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: and and got hot. Yeah, gott have been something like that,

724
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: and and some people know and some people are going

725
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: to eat more bread and get a bigger dose, you know.

726
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: And so that would explain why there was a big

727
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: variety and what people saw. Some people really saw a

728
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: lot of wild stuff, and some people not quite so much,

729
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: and again some not at all. So I don't even

730
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: I don't even know that you necessarily want to pin

731
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: it on her or the other two children. But it

732
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: could be that somebody was there selling something and it

733
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: was you know, it'd gone south. Yeah, a lot of

734
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: things go bad and have the hustory effects on people

735
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: back in those days and the days before refrigeration. Yeah. Yeah,

736
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: it's it's hard. It's hard to say exactly what happened

737
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: that day because I know that all the research has

738
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: been done on it. Uh. And there was a guy

739
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: named Kevin mclu who wrote a book about this, like

740
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, back in the eighties, and he saw just

741
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: about all the accounts and he said he'd never seen

742
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: some many contradictory statements as about what happened there. So

743
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: it's really kind of hard to say exactly what happened,

744
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: whether it's a miracle or not. It's hard to say

745
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: even what happened. You know. It's weird. Yeah, it picks.

746
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: It turns out I picked two stories in a row

747
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: that have the same flaw in them, because last episode

748
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: that I did was the t w A story. All

749
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: those conflicting witness stories. Yeah, I mean that's and that's

750
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: these are you know, ninety years apart or eighty years apart.

751
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: And look, we're having the same problem when we have

752
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: lots and lots of witnesses. Human beings haven't changed that

753
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that, not that much. They haven't

754
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: changed at all. Yeah, I really haven't changed. I gotta

755
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: say that. During the time all this was happening, in

756
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: the months leading after the big miracle, She's mother was

757
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: actually pretty skeptical herself. Oh yeah, I think she ever

758
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: got She called a childish nonsense, called her her daughter

759
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: nothing but a fake. Actually, her family once she was

760
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: an adult, they they kind of semi disowned her because

761
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: they're like, oh yeah, no, she she lives in a

762
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: fantasy land, Like they really went against her that whole time. Yeah,

763
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: that was a friar who knew who really well, his

764
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: name was, what was his name? Mario di Alveda. Olivera

765
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: gave an interview to the UK Sunday Times in two

766
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: thousand and talked about her she was still alive at

767
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: the time and if she died as she said in

768
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: two thousand five, and he said that she experienced religious hallucinations,

769
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: and he also said that she lives in the delirious

770
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: world of infantile fantasies. Uh. And this is like, you know,

771
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: again fairly recently, and this is somebody who knew her well. Uh,

772
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: it might just be that just the power of suggestion.

773
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: All these people came there expecting and wanting to see

774
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: a miracle, and so damn it they you know, most

775
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: of us saw something well, and and her, the way

776
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: that she clung to it in a way could be

777
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: partially explained by the death of her cousins, because if

778
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: you read the transcripts of what was said between the

779
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: children and Mary, uh, they you know, they ask is

780
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: is Lucia going to go to heaven? Is Jacinta going

781
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: to go to heaven? And all and Francisco or wait,

782
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: is thesnesscouh And she says, yes he will, but he's

783
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: got a prey to his rosaries a lot. And then

784
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: but in that text, it's hinted at that those two children,

785
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: the younger too, are going to go much sooner than

786
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: she is, and so that there could be some kind of,

787
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, some religious form of survivors guilt there that

788
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: has made her just hang on to it so firmly

789
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: for so long. And then when she has to write

790
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: about it, she may have been so far into it

791
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: that she didn't know what to do. And so because

792
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: her writings, people have said they borrow a lot from

793
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: a lot of other religious scriptures and are kind of

794
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: a repeat of that kind of information. So, I mean,

795
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what that says, but I mean, maybe

796
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: she just was so far in that by the time

797
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: she thought maybe I should get out of this, she

798
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: didn't really see a way to to step away from

799
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: it anymore and just had to, you know, fully commit

800
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I think yeah, And that and

801
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: it was her deal. I mean, she couldn't really back

802
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: away from it. She couldn't obviously come clean and say

803
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: it was all bus and I just let everybody astray,

804
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: especially when she devoted her life to the church so much. Yeah,

805
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: that that would be really not a good career move. Yeah.

806
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: And also because it turns out, I mean, according to

807
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: look at that that that same friar I was. I

808
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: just mentioned a moment ago Mario Olivia that he also

809
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: said that he believed those two kids died from religious

810
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: fasting and not from the flu. Really yeah, yeah, he

811
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: did say that in the same interview he said, d

812
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: card quit. It could be that they were so weakened

813
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: by fasting that when the flu came along they would

814
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: have survived, but since they were so weak, they died.

815
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe after all that, after fanatically convincing the

816
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: cousins to the point where while they died, I can't exactly, like,

817
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, say, oh never mind, change my mind, Kevin,

818
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: Do you have any other final thoughts before we wrapped

819
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 1: this one up? Because I mean, I think I've said

820
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: what I feel it is. I think she saw the

821
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: Virgin Mary. You know, I don't know, I feel like

822
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: we need to say that, Okay, I feel like one

823
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: of us has to be pro her. I mean, you know,

824
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: we can't all say we think she just made the

825
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: whole thing up. We can, I mean, we could. I

826
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: think we just did. But I just don't think. I mean,

827
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: I I think there's a lot tied up in this,

828
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: and I am not willing to say, like, no, she

829
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: definitely didn't see anything, but I'm not willing to say

830
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: that she totally saw everything she said, especially with the

831
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: premonitions and stuff like that. I mean, you know, when

832
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: we say visions, yeah, when you know, I just don't don't.

833
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: I think that probably came later. But I believe that

834
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: they believe they saw something great. One thing about it

835
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: is is, yeah, there are people out there who are

836
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: delusional they sincerely believe what they're what they're saying. But

837
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: there are also people who just say, he doesn't have

838
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: to necessarily be delusional, they just have to have it's

839
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: the words conviction is the word I'm going to use.

840
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 1: They are very convinced believe and their faith, and that

841
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: is what it is, and that is informing how they're

842
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: seeing and operating in the world. All right, Well, we're

843
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 1: gonna wrap up on that. So if you have any

844
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: thoughts or theories of your own, you're welcome to share

845
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: that with us. You can do that by sending us

846
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: an email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

847
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: We have a website, Thinking sideways podcast dot com where

848
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: we will have this story and some of the links,

849
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 1: as well as a list of all prior stories. There's

850
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: a separate page for those. We've got merchandise on there

851
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: for shirts and mugs and all that good stuff, so

852
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: you can go to the website for all of that.

853
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: You can stream and download from the website, but chances

854
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: are you're listening to us through some other avenue and

855
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 1: continue to use that avenue if you like it, because

856
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: obviously we're there, and really we're just about everywhere. If

857
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: you're listening to us on a place that allows comments

858
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: or ratings and reviews, yeah I know iTunes to is.

859
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if Stitcher, Google Player doing it yet,

860
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: but anyway, if you can rate and review the show,

861
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: please do so. We appreciate that that helps other people

862
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 1: find us. We are on social media, so we have

863
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: a Facebook page and a Facebook group, so make sure

864
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: when you're if you want to join the group, that

865
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: you answer all of the questions and then you can

866
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: get in and join all of the conversations because that's

867
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: where all of the post episode conversations happen the group,

868
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: not the page. I'll give you a hint. The answers

869
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: are yes, I will. And every week there we go perfect, perfect.

870
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: Now you just give it away the keys of the Kingdom.

871
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: Good job. We are also on Twitter Thinking Sideways, where

872
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: Devon tweets all kinds of hilarious Devon this. We are

873
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: on Reddit at we have a It's Thinking Sideways, where

874
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: there's also post episode discussions as well as a whole

875
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff that happens there. And that's really

876
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: all of it. So I think we're gonna wrap this

877
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: one up and we will talk to everybody next week.

878
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to ascend from I'm going to go stare

879
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: at the sun. It's a good thing. It's nighttime right now. Bye, guys.

880
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: Ye