WEBVTT - Listener Questions 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.400 Bombshell development Brian Koberger appearing set to accept a plea 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:10.680 deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:15.000 set to start. Brian Coberger was simply out of options 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.000 and out of time. Why did the prosecution take this? 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:19.400 They were holding. 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:20.120 All the cards. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.759 He essentially gets to live rent free, no expenses for 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.320 the rest of his life, and we call that justice. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.520 It's insane. 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.240 This is The Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:48.839 and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode twelve, listener questions. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.760 a producer at Kat's Studios, along with Stephanie Leidecker, Body Movin, 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:58.440 and Alison Bankston, who you'll hear reading the questions. We're 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.680 starting off with Jack from Denver, Colorado. 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:03.880 So the first one we have here. I mean, I 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:05.680 know you guys have had a chance to go through 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.480 all of these recently released selfies that came out a 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:10.800 few weeks ago. I think, oh man, there's got to 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.800 be around sixty or more. They're quite bizarre, and Jack 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.000 is wondering, you know, when you look at these selfies, 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.720 how do you feel about them? And what do you 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.720 think they say about Brian Coberger's mindset before and after 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:23.520 the murders. 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.600 Yeah, there is a noticeable difference between the selfies Brian 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:33.160 Coberger took prior to November thirteenth, twenty twenty two and 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.000 after November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:37.080 And in the. 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.640 Selfies pre murder, he seems like he's hiking, he's out, 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.600 he's doing things. He's taking pictures of himself that seem 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.759 kind of normal, you know, he's eating dinner. And then 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.800 in the selfies after the murder, he's posing, he's looking 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.600 at his body, he's flexing, he's pulling his hair back, 0:01:55.040 --> 0:02:00.600 he's making faces. It's almost as if he's seeing himself 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.400 for the first time. And I don't know what to 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.480 make of That's almost as if doing this was something 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.240 he was like, Yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.399 I'm supposed to be this this murderer, and it gave 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.640 him confidence in something and the idea that he was 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:16.480 getting away with it. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.240 I was just going to say, because of the randomness 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.840 of this case or this again, there doesn't appear to 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.120 be any logical motive in any way. It was just 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.079 an attempt for him to actually feel something. I think 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.360 you say it so correctly, like it almost appeared. Not 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.440 that I would ever really understand what Brian Koberger was 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.560 thinking when he took the selfies after the murder, but 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.640 maybe he was looking to see do I feel something 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.640 for the first time? And this is so extreme, what 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:51.200 a pathological way to attempt to feel something? Again, we 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.040 don't really have the answers, but do you recognize yourself 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.320 for the first time? That to me kind of tracks 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.880 and maybe scary is do you feel something for the 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:03.440 first time? 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.760 So the next one we have here is from Kate 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.960 and Portland, Maine. She was wondering about some of the 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.800 headlines that came out last week. It was revealed last 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.679 week that Amanda Coburger, Brian Coberger's sister, was you know it, 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:18.720 she was going to be on the witness list and 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.160 people were wondering if this is maybe one of the 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.800 reasons that Brian Coberger decided to plead guilty. Kate is wondering, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.519 what are your thoughts on this. Do you think Amanda's 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.000 possible presence at trial had anything to do with him 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.359 deciding to plea and if not, why do you think 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.200 he decided to plea? 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.200 The court filings recently revealed that Amanda Coberger was listed 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.440 as a potential witness for the prosecution, right and you know, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.920 according to all these reports, this list occurred just a 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.240 few days before Brian accepted this plea deal that avoided 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.960 this full trial that would have brought her to the stand. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.880 I personally don't think it had anything to do with 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.720 him pleading guilty at all. I don't think Brian Coberger 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:02.520 has the emotional ability to put family's comfort level above 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.480 his own. I think that it was more of saving 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.920 his life because the judge had been denying motion after 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.960 motion after motion that the defense was presenting. The defense 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:19.600 had presented the alibi defense, the third party culpability defense. 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.320 They kept asking for continuances because of the media, and 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.680 it just kept getting denied. And at the last motion 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.520 hearing that got denied, the judge said, the last best 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.760 offer is due at the end of the month, and 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.280 that's when Brian plug guilty. I don't think it had 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.680 anything to do with a manicoburger. I completely concur I 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:38.920 think that's exactly. 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.520 Right to that extent. We've spoken to so many legal 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.359 experts who have really weighed in on this throughout the years, 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.280 and many have said, including Stephen Greenberg, who was a 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:54.120 contributor in this podcast season one and two, who recently 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.200 passed away and our Hearts go out, they called it 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.840 from day one that the alibi wouldn't have held up 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.760 and that there was enough damning information, maybe not for 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:08.880 the death penalty, but for penalty in general. So it's unknowable. 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.320 I guess that's the stuff we all kind of still 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.360 want to know, right What was that alibi all about? 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.800 Where was that concocted? Was that concocted? Is that something 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:19.960 that he actually used to do? 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.840 I think Brian Coberger has gotten away with a lot 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.360 of crap his whole life that I think he thought 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:25.560 he was going to be able to get away with this, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:27.880 and that the judge was just going to believe, Okay, 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.560 this was his alibi. I'm going to accept this as 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:30.880 his defense, and he's going to be able to present 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:31.560 in court. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.680 Which is technically their job. I have to sell up 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.359 whatever the alibi is that's given. It's not the defense 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.040 attorney's job to be able to concoct an alibi. If 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.640 someone's giving the alibi and they're shaking their heads, yes, 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.760 that this is what the alibi is there's no journey 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:48.359 back from that. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:53.880 Here's all the photos I've taken hiking, and remember the dateline. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.159 Leak mentioned that the friends saw him out there, and 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:58.920 he made it a point to run up to them 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.160 and be like, hey, remember I'm Brian Coberger. He was 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.320 preparing for this the entire time. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.159 Do you think he was panicked the entire time after 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.600 the murders, when he was walking around Costco with coffee, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.120 when he was returning to the crime scene, in the 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.400 hours after the murders, when he went home to Mom 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.200 and Dad. Is he looking over his shoulder the entire time, 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.760 petrified knowing that at any moment the doorbell was about 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.880 to ring and he was a had man. 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.760 You're all not in your head. I don't know no 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.479 more in his head than you guys are. But I 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.800 could go fifty to fifty on that. He could have 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.320 been cool as a cucumber and I did what I 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.760 set out to do. I am so much smarter than 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.840 anyone around. There's no universe there gonna find me. And 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.200 he may have been in a state of peace and bliss. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:49.920 I don't know. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.920 I think once he realized he left the sheath, there 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.240 was a moment of panic. But I think he probably thought, oh, 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.560 I cleaned it so well, I not realizing the knooks 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.720 and cran he's in that snap, right. I think initially 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.239 he was like, yeah, I'm good, even all about the sheath, 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.240 I'm good. As time went on, and now they've got 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.360 the Hyundai, right, I think as time went on he 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.480 started getting panickdea right. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.000 And next we have an email from Jerry in Carmel, California. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.760 He's wondering, you know, back in July when the victim 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.800 impact statements were made, which ones to this day still 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.000 stand out to you? Which ones really left a lasting 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:29.480 impact on you today? 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:37.239 Olivia Gonzalvez unbelievable, a master class. Olivia Gonzalvez is victim 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:42.320 impact statement. That's Kaylee's older sister. Was a master class 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.280 in how to deal with a narcissist or how to 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.920 deal with, frankly, anyone who's not giving back the decency 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:58.600 and kindness and reciprocity of just answers, basic answers. I 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.440 think Olivia Gonzalvez knocked it out of the park. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.480 I think a beautiful woman, smartmouthing Brian Koberger is exactly 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.559 what he needed. But I think a lot of people 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.640 are going to say that Olivia Gonsalves's was the best one, 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.880 because it really was the best one. But I'm going 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.440 to say Kim Karnodle, and she was the aunt of 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.360 Xana Cernodle, and she said, you know, the loss of 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.160 her niece, you know, at first it's burred anger within 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.800 their family, but recently it's brought them closer. And she 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.800 said something along the lines of you united us with 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.560 your actions, and we have a family and friends now 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.400 that we never even knew we had, and I have 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.280 forgiven you. And I thought that was so graceful. I 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:38.560 would I don't know if I would have been able 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:39.760 to do that, and I took it. I think it 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.120 took a lot of guts to be different, and I 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.959 think Kim Karnodle was very different. They were all very impactful. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.760 In fact, Steve Gonsalez has kind of said the same thing, like, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.760 you know, we are all united in thinking you are 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:56.200 the biggest loser in the world. This theme of uniting 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.560 in being united against him, I thought was impact. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:06.400 One of the victim's aunts actually said to Brian Cooberger, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.120 if you need an ear to listen, I will be 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.240 there and I will be a fair listener and I 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.360 welcome that, and you are forgiven in my heart or 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:22.760 that's all paraphrasing, but that was sprising and that is 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.640 an evolved woman who knows how to make her own 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.400 peace with what is, and that was very generous. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.520 The next question we have here is from Kayla in 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.360 New York, New York. So in episode ten, we interviewed 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:40.280 independent journalist Olivia Batally and Kyla Gonsalvus's brother, Stephen Gonsalves 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.400 about their love story, and they credit Katie Studio's documentary 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.440 The Idaho Student Murders was bringing them together. Kayla is 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.920 wondering how does it feel to have played a small 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.199 part in their love story. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.960 We made the documentary The Idaho Student Murders, which is 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.560 also airing now on Peacock, and that's where we first 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.480 met Stephen and Olivia. In some ways, we like to 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.360 believe in our hearts that Catherine Park, the director, kind 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.560 of brought them together and was a bit of an 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.680 unknowing matchmaker. But I can tell you, you know, he was 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.199 a very different guy even during that interview and now 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.800 listening to him post all this excessive amounts of trauma 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.040 and how he's speaking about the future and you can 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.280 hear a lightness in his voice. It's really touching and 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:28.600 it's really important. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.760 I think about this all the time. I'm calling it 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:37.880 Kaylee's gift. Kaylee Gonsalves is responsible for her brother's happiness. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.720 Look at this. I mean, obviously he would never want 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.640 this to happen, right, but he never would have met 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.160 the love of his life had it not happened. And 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.040 maybe that is Kaylee's gift to him. 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.320 I would say just the documentary says it all. Frankly, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.960 it is the darkest topic that could possibly be discussed, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.720 the darkest time in the Gonzalvez family, and I find 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:06.839 it incredibly inspiring and frankly, having seen all of it 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.920 from beginning, middle and end, I eat it up and 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.080 I wish them so much happiness. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.720 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:30.240 a moment. You're listening to the Idaho Massacre. I'm Courtney, 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.960 joined by Stephanie and Body, and we're diving into some 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.559 of the biggest listener questions you've sent in this season. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.840 Our producer Alison Bankston from Katie Studios is here to 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.240 read them. This next one comes in from Jake in Lubbock, Texas. 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.640 So Jake is saying, you know, obviously the DNA and 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.719 on the knife sheath was the biggest thing by far 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.920 evidence wise, But throughout this investigation, what was for you 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.440 some other big things that make you think there's no 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.280 way this guy's going to get off. 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.640 Oh well, I thought he was going to get off 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.840 time and time again. We debated this to nauseum. I 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.400 was the last man standing. I could explain away everything. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:13.840 It was also circumstantial, although the totality of the evidence 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.000 was not great, and the sheath was real hard to explain. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.880 But there was a moment that I thought, well, maybe 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.760 somebody just went to a knife store like a swap meet, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.600 and they purchased a knife, and that knife just happened 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.080 to be one that Brian Coburger had many years ago. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.200 And I know that sounds so silly retrospectively, but I 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.360 can say for myself, the day we found out that 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:43.880 he had ordered that particular knife on Amazon was kind 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.720 of a jaw dropper and hard to come back from. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.880 And I was devastated to find that out. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.439 You really hung your hat on the knife store scenario 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.280 and I would try so hard to fight with logic 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.200 or numbers, like you know, it seemed so implausible. Aside 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.800 from the knife sheath, you know, that is paramount. It 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.360 was all of the multiple GPS that he was driving 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.480 by the house so many times again without need or reason. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.880 That was explained, I think. 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.480 In order of importance, Setting aside the knife sheath, right, 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.360 setting aside the DNA, I'm going to go with the 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.439 cell phone data and the pings and the delocation data. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.800 You know, his phone was pinging near the home. It 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.439 was turned off, and we learned that it was physically 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.520 turned off. It wasn't like, you know, the battery didn't die. 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.199 He turned off the phone. In combination with the vehicle surveillance, 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.640 he was traveling in that direction based on his phone 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.439 and surveillance video. And then after those things, I think 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.400 probably the behavioral aspect of things, you know, his search queries, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:02.199 his Reddit posts, his searches for or sleeping an unconscious 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:08.360 female rape. Combining that with cleaning his car thoroughly and 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.720 disposing trash throughout the neighborhood, and the totality of the 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.160 evidence to me, even without the sheath, is pretty compelling. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.320 This next one we actually got a DM from Tara 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.320 on Instagram. Her locations unknown, but she wants to know 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.640 if any listener feedback has surprised you. Throughout the production 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.080 of all three seasons of this. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.080 Podcast, the pro Burgers very much surprised me. The people 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.600 who are thinking that Brian Coberger is innocent very much 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:40.600 surprised me because they're looking at really absurd and crazy 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.640 theories to replace reality, and you know, like this underground 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.040 fight club, and that there were these tunnels that led 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.520 to the house that the killer snuck out of, and 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:57.960 insane things that Steve Consalvez was running a crypto scam 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.960 and had his daughter killed, like just insane things. To me, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:03.600 those things very much surprise me. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.520 And by the way, to that end, it's not as 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.480 though I didn't personally want Brian Coberger to be guilty. 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:12.920 I just wanted to make sure that we didn't have 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.960 tunnel vision. It seemed as though the whole world had 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.280 decided he was guilty and the media had decided it 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.160 was him, and frankly, we used to say sometimes behind 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.360 the scenes, man, what if it's not Though I don't 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.560 see any active search for anybody else right now, is 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.640 it possible that there is some level of tunnel vision here. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.280 And while this circumstantial evidence is really hard to explain 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.720 again in its totality and when I look at it now, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.960 in its totality, it's frankly impossible to explain. But we 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.760 were getting those in breadcrumbs, and at some point it 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.880 felt like, well, if it is this guy, then surely 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.480 he may have struck prior. There does not appear to 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.840 be any evidence of that, although likely that he was 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.400 in and out of people's homes. I mean that in 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.320 and of itself is extremely scary. And again we have 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.600 to really thank law enforcement because based on what we 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.800 know today, he would have struck again, and that is 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:09.400 a sure thing. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.280 One hundred percent. Yeah, I completely agree. And this next 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.360 one we have here is from Shirley and Fargo, North Dakota. 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.080 She is wondering, do you think Brian Koberger got a 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.440 fair shake leading up to his trial? How do you 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:23.960 think this case was handled in the press throughout these 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.120 past three years. 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.880 It's easy to Monday Morning quarterback and to say that 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:34.640 it was done righteously. Listen, the science were fact and 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.880 stuck with me that Unlike Stephanie, I'll be honest, I 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.800 really always thought this was the guy. How is the 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.320 touch DNA otherwise going to be there? Why is he 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.040 on this called de sac of a street many multiple 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.480 times when he has no right or business to be there. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.160 So that was evidence that came out, and I think 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.160 a lot of the media coverage was based upon those facts, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.200 and I feel just fine about that. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.720 I think the combination of this small town dynamic plus 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:13.119 the high emotion combined into kind of an unwinnable battle. 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.040 The case took place in a really small community in Moscow, Idaho. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.400 This deeply affected the students and neighbors and surrounding cities. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.080 There was this ripple effect that we talk about, and 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.439 I do think that given all the media and the 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.879 coverage from podcast creators to YouTube creators to mainstream media, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.040 I think that there could be a case that, you know, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.800 a pretty strong case actually that the media environment made 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.480 it a lot harder for Brian Coberger to receive the 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.920 ideal conditions. However, all these things were presented to the judge, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.800 but to judges in this case, it did get moved 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.280 to a bigger jurisdiction and the motions that were supplied 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.600 to these judges, you know, he did get a fair shake. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.280 The judge was able to move it. He agreed and 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.879 he moved it, and you know, also said that the 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.679 media coverage was fair and also said that they were 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.960 going to look into the investor, you know, who leaked 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.800 all these things to the media. So all in all, 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:10.240 I think he did get a fair shake, but I 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.200 think there could be an argument that he didn't. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.800 And listen, we hear this a lot in true crime 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.800 in general. There is this frenzy from the media that 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.160 people want answers right away when the crime immediately happens. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.520 Imagine people are banging on your door and looking for 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.600 answers and needing content. And I think we hear often 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.120 in many of the cases that we work on how 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.680 traumatic that is as well, and it's something we're all 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:42.600 navigating and always trying to do better with. And you know, 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.520 hopefully that's scene as people caring, but that also can 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.880 be kind of a double punch when you're already trying 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.840 to navigate a really harrowing time. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.879 Perfect, Thank you all. The next one we have is 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.720 from Eliana in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She is wondering what 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.879 do you think it has been like for Brian's family? 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.320 To go through this whole ordeal. 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.359 I can't imagine what it would be like to be 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.800 related to Brian Coberger, certainly if you're not in any 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.479 way anticipating that somebody that you love so deeply is 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.959 now the guy. This person has now pled So what 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.199 does that mean? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.600 It is so layered and complicated and nuanced, but I 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:31.040 can only imagine it's extraordinarily painful and confusing. It's hopefully 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.560 a position that many of us will never have to understand. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.720 But my heart is with them. I feel a lot 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.679 of compassion for them, and they're grieving too and just 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.639 trying to piece things together as well. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.719 I imagine that Brian Coberger's family has been in this 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.480 prolonged sense of limbo, but their's is like a what if, right, 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.560 because I imagine they're probably sitting at home going there's 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.240 no way our son are in A beloved brother or 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.040 cousin did this right, and I'm sure that's going to 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.560 be with them for the rest of their lives. Being 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.600 related to somebody causing such harm to so many people 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:12.040 probably means dealing with vicarious trauma too, right and Shane 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.120 By association and the sense that their story is now 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.160 part of this big public narrative they've had no control 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.360 over and no pardon. 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.120 Right, absolutely nothing to do with it. 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.840 So that's got to be I just hope that their 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.040 family is getting therapy. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.639 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:45.000 a moment. I'm Courtney here with Stephanie and Body. We're 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.280 answering a few of the listener questions that have come 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.119 in throughout the season. KG Studio producer Alison Bankston is 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.400 reading the questions for us. 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.879 Our next question comes from Brian and Jacksonville, Florida. He 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.879 wants to know what are some key takeaways you have 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:00.000 from this case as a whole. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.560 I don't have a solid takeaway just yet. Right now. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.040 It's just such a tragic loss, the whole thing. Just 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.840 what a waste that this guy set this tragedy into motion. 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:15.560 Yeah. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:20.119 Same, Honestly, it's so senseless. All I could think is 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.040 what would Ethan and Xana and Kaylee and Madison be 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:30.040 doing today? How happy would their lives be, and where 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.360 would they be off to? And again, another thing we'll 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:38.320 never know because one person decided their life mattered more. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:45.960 For me, this case underscored how microscopic and digital and 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.600 behavioral data can converge and build this can you know, 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:56.280 really convincing and compelling evidentiary web. And my big takeaway 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.480 from this case is that, you know, the totality of 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.840 evidence is going to matter in cases moving forward, and 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:07.919 IgG is going to be involved in more cases moving forward. Now, 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.600 I know that's not a big emotional takeaway, but it 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:15.479 might help with future convictions and stop this from happening 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.359 in the future. And the ripple effect is one of 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.080 my big takeaways. You know, there were so many people 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.800 that weren't related to the victims, that weren't in close 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.600 proximity to the victims, that were deeply affected by this, 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:32.120 deeply affected, And often I think about, you know, I've 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.040 watched the surveillance, the vehicle surveillance of Brian Colberger circling 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:40.679 the King Roadhouse hundreds of times, and I often pause 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.040 when he makes this three point turn and he's driving 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.440 past the King Roadhouse and it's almost like he says, 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:48.399 I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna I'm not gonna do this, 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:50.720 and he makes his three point turn. He almost like 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.240 he like he's making U turn because he's talking himself 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.360 into it. I think in that one moment where he 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.440 could have just gone home. Anybody makes this three point 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.119