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Speaker 1: Bombshell development Brian Koberger appearing set to accept a plea

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Speaker 1: deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was

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Speaker 1: set to start. Brian Coberger was simply out of options

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Speaker 1: and out of time. Why did the prosecution take this?

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Speaker 2: They were holding.

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Speaker 1: All the cards.

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Speaker 2: He essentially gets to live rent free, no expenses for

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Speaker 2: the rest of his life, and we call that justice.

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Speaker 2: It's insane.

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Speaker 3: This is The Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios

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Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode twelve, listener questions. I'm Courtney Armstrong,

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Speaker 3: a producer at Kat's Studios, along with Stephanie Leidecker, Body Movin,

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Speaker 3: and Alison Bankston, who you'll hear reading the questions. We're

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Speaker 3: starting off with Jack from Denver, Colorado.

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Speaker 4: So the first one we have here. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: know you guys have had a chance to go through

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Speaker 4: all of these recently released selfies that came out a

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Speaker 4: few weeks ago. I think, oh man, there's got to

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Speaker 4: be around sixty or more. They're quite bizarre, and Jack

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Speaker 4: is wondering, you know, when you look at these selfies,

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Speaker 4: how do you feel about them? And what do you

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Speaker 4: think they say about Brian Coberger's mindset before and after

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Speaker 4: the murders.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there is a noticeable difference between the selfies Brian

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Speaker 5: Coberger took prior to November thirteenth, twenty twenty two and

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Speaker 5: after November thirteenth, twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: And in the.

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Speaker 5: Selfies pre murder, he seems like he's hiking, he's out,

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Speaker 5: he's doing things. He's taking pictures of himself that seem

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Speaker 5: kind of normal, you know, he's eating dinner. And then

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Speaker 5: in the selfies after the murder, he's posing, he's looking

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Speaker 5: at his body, he's flexing, he's pulling his hair back,

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Speaker 5: he's making faces. It's almost as if he's seeing himself

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Speaker 5: for the first time. And I don't know what to

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Speaker 5: make of That's almost as if doing this was something

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Speaker 5: he was like, Yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do,

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Speaker 5: I'm supposed to be this this murderer, and it gave

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Speaker 5: him confidence in something and the idea that he was

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Speaker 5: getting away with it.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say, because of the randomness

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Speaker 1: of this case or this again, there doesn't appear to

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Speaker 1: be any logical motive in any way. It was just

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Speaker 1: an attempt for him to actually feel something. I think

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Speaker 1: you say it so correctly, like it almost appeared. Not

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Speaker 1: that I would ever really understand what Brian Koberger was

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Speaker 1: thinking when he took the selfies after the murder, but

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Speaker 1: maybe he was looking to see do I feel something

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Speaker 1: for the first time? And this is so extreme, what

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Speaker 1: a pathological way to attempt to feel something? Again, we

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Speaker 1: don't really have the answers, but do you recognize yourself

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Speaker 1: for the first time? That to me kind of tracks

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Speaker 1: and maybe scary is do you feel something for the

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Speaker 1: first time?

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Speaker 4: So the next one we have here is from Kate

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Speaker 4: and Portland, Maine. She was wondering about some of the

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Speaker 4: headlines that came out last week. It was revealed last

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Speaker 4: week that Amanda Coburger, Brian Coberger's sister, was you know it,

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Speaker 4: she was going to be on the witness list and

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Speaker 4: people were wondering if this is maybe one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons that Brian Coberger decided to plead guilty. Kate is wondering,

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Speaker 4: what are your thoughts on this. Do you think Amanda's

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Speaker 4: possible presence at trial had anything to do with him

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Speaker 4: deciding to plea and if not, why do you think

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Speaker 4: he decided to plea?

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Speaker 5: The court filings recently revealed that Amanda Coberger was listed

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Speaker 5: as a potential witness for the prosecution, right and you know,

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Speaker 5: according to all these reports, this list occurred just a

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Speaker 5: few days before Brian accepted this plea deal that avoided

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Speaker 5: this full trial that would have brought her to the stand.

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Speaker 5: I personally don't think it had anything to do with

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Speaker 5: him pleading guilty at all. I don't think Brian Coberger

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Speaker 5: has the emotional ability to put family's comfort level above

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Speaker 5: his own. I think that it was more of saving

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Speaker 5: his life because the judge had been denying motion after

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Speaker 5: motion after motion that the defense was presenting. The defense

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Speaker 5: had presented the alibi defense, the third party culpability defense.

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Speaker 5: They kept asking for continuances because of the media, and

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Speaker 5: it just kept getting denied. And at the last motion

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Speaker 5: hearing that got denied, the judge said, the last best

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Speaker 5: offer is due at the end of the month, and

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Speaker 5: that's when Brian plug guilty. I don't think it had

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Speaker 5: anything to do with a manicoburger. I completely concur I

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Speaker 5: think that's exactly.

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Speaker 1: Right to that extent. We've spoken to so many legal

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Speaker 1: experts who have really weighed in on this throughout the years,

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Speaker 1: and many have said, including Stephen Greenberg, who was a

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Speaker 1: contributor in this podcast season one and two, who recently

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Speaker 1: passed away and our Hearts go out, they called it

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Speaker 1: from day one that the alibi wouldn't have held up

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Speaker 1: and that there was enough damning information, maybe not for

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Speaker 1: the death penalty, but for penalty in general. So it's unknowable.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's the stuff we all kind of still

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Speaker 1: want to know, right What was that alibi all about?

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Speaker 1: Where was that concocted? Was that concocted? Is that something

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Speaker 1: that he actually used to do?

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Speaker 5: I think Brian Coberger has gotten away with a lot

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Speaker 5: of crap his whole life that I think he thought

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Speaker 5: he was going to be able to get away with this,

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Speaker 5: and that the judge was just going to believe, Okay,

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Speaker 5: this was his alibi. I'm going to accept this as

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Speaker 5: his defense, and he's going to be able to present

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Speaker 5: in court.

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Speaker 1: Which is technically their job. I have to sell up

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Speaker 1: whatever the alibi is that's given. It's not the defense

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Speaker 1: attorney's job to be able to concoct an alibi. If

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Speaker 1: someone's giving the alibi and they're shaking their heads, yes,

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Speaker 1: that this is what the alibi is there's no journey

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Speaker 1: back from that.

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Speaker 5: Here's all the photos I've taken hiking, and remember the dateline.

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Speaker 5: Leak mentioned that the friends saw him out there, and

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Speaker 5: he made it a point to run up to them

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Speaker 5: and be like, hey, remember I'm Brian Coberger. He was

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Speaker 5: preparing for this the entire time.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he was panicked the entire time after

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Speaker 1: the murders, when he was walking around Costco with coffee,

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Speaker 1: when he was returning to the crime scene, in the

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Speaker 1: hours after the murders, when he went home to Mom

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Speaker 1: and Dad. Is he looking over his shoulder the entire time,

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Speaker 1: petrified knowing that at any moment the doorbell was about

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Speaker 1: to ring and he was a had man.

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Speaker 3: You're all not in your head. I don't know no

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Speaker 3: more in his head than you guys are. But I

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Speaker 3: could go fifty to fifty on that. He could have

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Speaker 3: been cool as a cucumber and I did what I

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Speaker 3: set out to do. I am so much smarter than

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Speaker 3: anyone around. There's no universe there gonna find me. And

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Speaker 3: he may have been in a state of peace and bliss.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I think once he realized he left the sheath, there

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Speaker 5: was a moment of panic. But I think he probably thought, oh,

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Speaker 5: I cleaned it so well, I not realizing the knooks

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Speaker 5: and cran he's in that snap, right. I think initially

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Speaker 5: he was like, yeah, I'm good, even all about the sheath,

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Speaker 5: I'm good. As time went on, and now they've got

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Speaker 5: the Hyundai, right, I think as time went on he

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Speaker 5: started getting panickdea right.

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Speaker 4: And next we have an email from Jerry in Carmel, California.

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Speaker 4: He's wondering, you know, back in July when the victim

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Speaker 4: impact statements were made, which ones to this day still

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Speaker 4: stand out to you? Which ones really left a lasting

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Speaker 4: impact on you today?

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Speaker 1: Olivia Gonzalvez unbelievable, a master class. Olivia Gonzalvez is victim

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Speaker 1: impact statement. That's Kaylee's older sister. Was a master class

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Speaker 1: in how to deal with a narcissist or how to

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Speaker 1: deal with, frankly, anyone who's not giving back the decency

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Speaker 1: and kindness and reciprocity of just answers, basic answers. I

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Speaker 1: think Olivia Gonzalvez knocked it out of the park.

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Speaker 5: I think a beautiful woman, smartmouthing Brian Koberger is exactly

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Speaker 5: what he needed. But I think a lot of people

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Speaker 5: are going to say that Olivia Gonsalves's was the best one,

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Speaker 5: because it really was the best one. But I'm going

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Speaker 5: to say Kim Karnodle, and she was the aunt of

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Speaker 5: Xana Cernodle, and she said, you know, the loss of

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Speaker 5: her niece, you know, at first it's burred anger within

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Speaker 5: their family, but recently it's brought them closer. And she

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Speaker 5: said something along the lines of you united us with

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Speaker 5: your actions, and we have a family and friends now

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Speaker 5: that we never even knew we had, and I have

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Speaker 5: forgiven you. And I thought that was so graceful. I

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Speaker 5: would I don't know if I would have been able

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Speaker 5: to do that, and I took it. I think it

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Speaker 5: took a lot of guts to be different, and I

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Speaker 5: think Kim Karnodle was very different. They were all very impactful.

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Speaker 5: In fact, Steve Gonsalez has kind of said the same thing, like,

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Speaker 5: you know, we are all united in thinking you are

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Speaker 5: the biggest loser in the world. This theme of uniting

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Speaker 5: in being united against him, I thought was impact.

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Speaker 3: One of the victim's aunts actually said to Brian Cooberger,

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Speaker 3: if you need an ear to listen, I will be

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Speaker 3: there and I will be a fair listener and I

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Speaker 3: welcome that, and you are forgiven in my heart or

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Speaker 3: that's all paraphrasing, but that was sprising and that is

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Speaker 3: an evolved woman who knows how to make her own

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Speaker 3: peace with what is, and that was very generous.

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Speaker 4: The next question we have here is from Kayla in

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Speaker 4: New York, New York. So in episode ten, we interviewed

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Speaker 4: independent journalist Olivia Batally and Kyla Gonsalvus's brother, Stephen Gonsalves

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Speaker 4: about their love story, and they credit Katie Studio's documentary

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Speaker 4: The Idaho Student Murders was bringing them together. Kayla is

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Speaker 4: wondering how does it feel to have played a small

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Speaker 4: part in their love story.

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Speaker 1: We made the documentary The Idaho Student Murders, which is

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Speaker 1: also airing now on Peacock, and that's where we first

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Speaker 1: met Stephen and Olivia. In some ways, we like to

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Speaker 1: believe in our hearts that Catherine Park, the director, kind

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Speaker 1: of brought them together and was a bit of an

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Speaker 1: unknowing matchmaker. But I can tell you, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: a very different guy even during that interview and now

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Speaker 1: listening to him post all this excessive amounts of trauma

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Speaker 1: and how he's speaking about the future and you can

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Speaker 1: hear a lightness in his voice. It's really touching and

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Speaker 1: it's really important.

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Speaker 5: I think about this all the time. I'm calling it

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Speaker 5: Kaylee's gift. Kaylee Gonsalves is responsible for her brother's happiness.

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Speaker 5: Look at this. I mean, obviously he would never want

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Speaker 5: this to happen, right, but he never would have met

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Speaker 5: the love of his life had it not happened. And

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Speaker 5: maybe that is Kaylee's gift to him.

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Speaker 1: I would say just the documentary says it all. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: it is the darkest topic that could possibly be discussed,

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Speaker 1: the darkest time in the Gonzalvez family, and I find

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Speaker 1: it incredibly inspiring and frankly, having seen all of it

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Speaker 1: from beginning, middle and end, I eat it up and

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Speaker 1: I wish them so much happiness.

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Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

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Speaker 3: a moment. You're listening to the Idaho Massacre. I'm Courtney,

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Speaker 3: joined by Stephanie and Body, and we're diving into some

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Speaker 3: of the biggest listener questions you've sent in this season.

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Speaker 3: Our producer Alison Bankston from Katie Studios is here to

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Speaker 3: read them. This next one comes in from Jake in Lubbock, Texas.

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Speaker 4: So Jake is saying, you know, obviously the DNA and

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Speaker 4: on the knife sheath was the biggest thing by far

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Speaker 4: evidence wise, But throughout this investigation, what was for you

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Speaker 4: some other big things that make you think there's no

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Speaker 4: way this guy's going to get off.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I thought he was going to get off

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Speaker 1: time and time again. We debated this to nauseum. I

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Speaker 1: was the last man standing. I could explain away everything.

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Speaker 1: It was also circumstantial, although the totality of the evidence

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Speaker 1: was not great, and the sheath was real hard to explain.

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Speaker 1: But there was a moment that I thought, well, maybe

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Speaker 1: somebody just went to a knife store like a swap meet,

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Speaker 1: and they purchased a knife, and that knife just happened

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Speaker 1: to be one that Brian Coburger had many years ago.

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Speaker 1: And I know that sounds so silly retrospectively, but I

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Speaker 1: can say for myself, the day we found out that

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Speaker 1: he had ordered that particular knife on Amazon was kind

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Speaker 1: of a jaw dropper and hard to come back from.

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Speaker 1: And I was devastated to find that out.

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Speaker 3: You really hung your hat on the knife store scenario

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Speaker 3: and I would try so hard to fight with logic

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Speaker 3: or numbers, like you know, it seemed so implausible. Aside

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Speaker 3: from the knife sheath, you know, that is paramount. It

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Speaker 3: was all of the multiple GPS that he was driving

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Speaker 3: by the house so many times again without need or reason.

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Speaker 3: That was explained, I think.

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Speaker 5: In order of importance, Setting aside the knife sheath, right,

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Speaker 5: setting aside the DNA, I'm going to go with the

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Speaker 5: cell phone data and the pings and the delocation data.

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Speaker 5: You know, his phone was pinging near the home. It

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Speaker 5: was turned off, and we learned that it was physically

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Speaker 5: turned off. It wasn't like, you know, the battery didn't die.

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Speaker 5: He turned off the phone. In combination with the vehicle surveillance,

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Speaker 5: he was traveling in that direction based on his phone

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Speaker 5: and surveillance video. And then after those things, I think

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Speaker 5: probably the behavioral aspect of things, you know, his search queries,

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Speaker 5: his Reddit posts, his searches for or sleeping an unconscious

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Speaker 5: female rape. Combining that with cleaning his car thoroughly and

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Speaker 5: disposing trash throughout the neighborhood, and the totality of the

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Speaker 5: evidence to me, even without the sheath, is pretty compelling.

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Speaker 4: This next one we actually got a DM from Tara

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Speaker 4: on Instagram. Her locations unknown, but she wants to know

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Speaker 4: if any listener feedback has surprised you. Throughout the production

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Speaker 4: of all three seasons of this.

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Speaker 5: Podcast, the pro Burgers very much surprised me. The people

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Speaker 5: who are thinking that Brian Coberger is innocent very much

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Speaker 5: surprised me because they're looking at really absurd and crazy

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Speaker 5: theories to replace reality, and you know, like this underground

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Speaker 5: fight club, and that there were these tunnels that led

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Speaker 5: to the house that the killer snuck out of, and

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Speaker 5: insane things that Steve Consalvez was running a crypto scam

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Speaker 5: and had his daughter killed, like just insane things. To me,

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Speaker 5: those things very much surprise me.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, to that end, it's not as

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Speaker 1: though I didn't personally want Brian Coberger to be guilty.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that we didn't have

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Speaker 1: tunnel vision. It seemed as though the whole world had

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Speaker 1: decided he was guilty and the media had decided it

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Speaker 1: was him, and frankly, we used to say sometimes behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, man, what if it's not Though I don't

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Speaker 1: see any active search for anybody else right now, is

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Speaker 1: it possible that there is some level of tunnel vision here.

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Speaker 1: And while this circumstantial evidence is really hard to explain

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Speaker 1: again in its totality and when I look at it now,

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Speaker 1: in its totality, it's frankly impossible to explain. But we

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Speaker 1: were getting those in breadcrumbs, and at some point it

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Speaker 1: felt like, well, if it is this guy, then surely

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Speaker 1: he may have struck prior. There does not appear to

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Speaker 1: be any evidence of that, although likely that he was

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Speaker 1: in and out of people's homes. I mean that in

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Speaker 1: and of itself is extremely scary. And again we have

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Speaker 1: to really thank law enforcement because based on what we

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Speaker 1: know today, he would have struck again, and that is

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Speaker 1: a sure thing.

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent. Yeah, I completely agree. And this next

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Speaker 4: one we have here is from Shirley and Fargo, North Dakota.

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Speaker 4: She is wondering, do you think Brian Koberger got a

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Speaker 4: fair shake leading up to his trial? How do you

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Speaker 4: think this case was handled in the press throughout these

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Speaker 4: past three years.

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Speaker 3: It's easy to Monday Morning quarterback and to say that

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Speaker 3: it was done righteously. Listen, the science were fact and

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Speaker 3: stuck with me that Unlike Stephanie, I'll be honest, I

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Speaker 3: really always thought this was the guy. How is the

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Speaker 3: touch DNA otherwise going to be there? Why is he

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Speaker 3: on this called de sac of a street many multiple

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Speaker 3: times when he has no right or business to be there.

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Speaker 3: So that was evidence that came out, and I think

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Speaker 3: a lot of the media coverage was based upon those facts,

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Speaker 3: and I feel just fine about that.

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Speaker 5: I think the combination of this small town dynamic plus

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Speaker 5: the high emotion combined into kind of an unwinnable battle.

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Speaker 5: The case took place in a really small community in Moscow, Idaho.

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Speaker 5: This deeply affected the students and neighbors and surrounding cities.

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Speaker 5: There was this ripple effect that we talk about, and

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Speaker 5: I do think that given all the media and the

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Speaker 5: coverage from podcast creators to YouTube creators to mainstream media,

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Speaker 5: I think that there could be a case that, you know,

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Speaker 5: a pretty strong case actually that the media environment made

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Speaker 5: it a lot harder for Brian Coberger to receive the

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Speaker 5: ideal conditions. However, all these things were presented to the judge,

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Speaker 5: but to judges in this case, it did get moved

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Speaker 5: to a bigger jurisdiction and the motions that were supplied

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Speaker 5: to these judges, you know, he did get a fair shake.

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Speaker 5: The judge was able to move it. He agreed and

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Speaker 5: he moved it, and you know, also said that the

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Speaker 5: media coverage was fair and also said that they were

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Speaker 5: going to look into the investor, you know, who leaked

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Speaker 5: all these things to the media. So all in all,

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Speaker 5: I think he did get a fair shake, but I

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Speaker 5: think there could be an argument that he didn't.

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Speaker 1: And listen, we hear this a lot in true crime

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Speaker 1: in general. There is this frenzy from the media that

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Speaker 1: people want answers right away when the crime immediately happens.

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Speaker 1: Imagine people are banging on your door and looking for

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Speaker 1: answers and needing content. And I think we hear often

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Speaker 1: in many of the cases that we work on how

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Speaker 1: traumatic that is as well, and it's something we're all

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Speaker 1: navigating and always trying to do better with. And you know,

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Speaker 1: hopefully that's scene as people caring, but that also can

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Speaker 1: be kind of a double punch when you're already trying

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Speaker 1: to navigate a really harrowing time.

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Speaker 4: Perfect, Thank you all. The next one we have is

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Speaker 4: from Eliana in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She is wondering what

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Speaker 4: do you think it has been like for Brian's family?

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Speaker 4: To go through this whole ordeal.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it would be like to be

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Speaker 1: related to Brian Coberger, certainly if you're not in any

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Speaker 1: way anticipating that somebody that you love so deeply is

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Speaker 1: now the guy. This person has now pled So what

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Speaker 1: does that mean? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that.

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Speaker 1: It is so layered and complicated and nuanced, but I

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Speaker 1: can only imagine it's extraordinarily painful and confusing. It's hopefully

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Speaker 1: a position that many of us will never have to understand.

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Speaker 1: But my heart is with them. I feel a lot

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Speaker 1: of compassion for them, and they're grieving too and just

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Speaker 1: trying to piece things together as well.

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Speaker 5: I imagine that Brian Coberger's family has been in this

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Speaker 5: prolonged sense of limbo, but their's is like a what if, right,

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Speaker 5: because I imagine they're probably sitting at home going there's

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Speaker 5: no way our son are in A beloved brother or

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Speaker 5: cousin did this right, and I'm sure that's going to

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Speaker 5: be with them for the rest of their lives. Being

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Speaker 5: related to somebody causing such harm to so many people

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Speaker 5: probably means dealing with vicarious trauma too, right and Shane

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Speaker 5: By association and the sense that their story is now

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Speaker 5: part of this big public narrative they've had no control

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Speaker 5: over and no pardon.

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Speaker 1: Right, absolutely nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 5: So that's got to be I just hope that their

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Speaker 5: family is getting therapy.

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Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

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Speaker 3: a moment. I'm Courtney here with Stephanie and Body. We're

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Speaker 3: answering a few of the listener questions that have come

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Speaker 3: in throughout the season. KG Studio producer Alison Bankston is

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Speaker 3: reading the questions for us.

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Speaker 4: Our next question comes from Brian and Jacksonville, Florida. He

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Speaker 4: wants to know what are some key takeaways you have

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Speaker 4: from this case as a whole.

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Speaker 3: I don't have a solid takeaway just yet. Right now.

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Speaker 3: It's just such a tragic loss, the whole thing. Just

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Speaker 3: what a waste that this guy set this tragedy into motion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Same, Honestly, it's so senseless. All I could think is

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Speaker 1: what would Ethan and Xana and Kaylee and Madison be

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Speaker 1: doing today? How happy would their lives be, and where

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Speaker 1: would they be off to? And again, another thing we'll

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Speaker 1: never know because one person decided their life mattered more.

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Speaker 5: For me, this case underscored how microscopic and digital and

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Speaker 5: behavioral data can converge and build this can you know,

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Speaker 5: really convincing and compelling evidentiary web. And my big takeaway

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Speaker 5: from this case is that, you know, the totality of

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Speaker 5: evidence is going to matter in cases moving forward, and

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Speaker 5: IgG is going to be involved in more cases moving forward. Now,

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Speaker 5: I know that's not a big emotional takeaway, but it

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Speaker 5: might help with future convictions and stop this from happening

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Speaker 5: in the future. And the ripple effect is one of

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Speaker 5: my big takeaways. You know, there were so many people

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Speaker 5: that weren't related to the victims, that weren't in close

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Speaker 5: proximity to the victims, that were deeply affected by this,

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Speaker 5: deeply affected, And often I think about, you know, I've

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Speaker 5: watched the surveillance, the vehicle surveillance of Brian Colberger circling

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Speaker 5: the King Roadhouse hundreds of times, and I often pause

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Speaker 5: when he makes this three point turn and he's driving

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Speaker 5: past the King Roadhouse and it's almost like he says,

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna I'm not gonna do this,

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Speaker 5: and he makes his three point turn. He almost like

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Speaker 5: he like he's making U turn because he's talking himself

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Speaker 5: into it. I think in that one moment where he

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Speaker 5: could have just gone home. Anybody makes this three point

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Speaker 5: turn in it's it changes everyone's life.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I often watch that and say, just don't turn around,

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Speaker 5: don't turn around, just go, just go.

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Speaker 1: And I guess that turning point, that inflection point, is

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Speaker 1: one that we're always trying to understand. And maybe that's

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Speaker 1: the spirit of kind of evaluating these cases, right. We

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Speaker 1: want to better understand why that moment and again I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we ever will.

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Speaker 4: And our last one is from Sherry in Chicago, Illinois.

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Speaker 4: She wants to know what comes after this? How do

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Speaker 4: you begin to move on after covering a case like

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Speaker 4: this for three years.

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Speaker 5: I think it's important to have some sort of like

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Speaker 5: closing ritual, right and I think that right now this

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Speaker 5: moment is my closing ritual. A lot of the times,

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Speaker 5: you know, some detective friends that I have made over

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Speaker 5: the years, they have a case closure meeting and you know,

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Speaker 5: in our case, you know, we're not investigators, but we've

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Speaker 5: been talking about this case for three years, and this

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Speaker 5: is my meeting. And maybe I know, even a symbolic

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Speaker 5: act like lighting a candle or even deleting my spreadsheets

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Speaker 5: is part of maybe this closing ritual that I need

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Speaker 5: to go through. And I need to replace this cognitive loop,

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Speaker 5: checking for case updates every day, checking for new case

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Speaker 5: documents that have been released on the Idaho website. I

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Speaker 5: need to replace those with healthier alternatives. And you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe I'll move on to looking at like wrongful convictions

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Speaker 5: or maybe forensic breakthroughs or historical mysteries. I don't know,

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Speaker 5: but I need to replace this cognitive loop. And right now,

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Speaker 5: this is my closure and talking about it is important too,

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Speaker 5: and I think being able to talk to you guys

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Speaker 5: about this has been therapeutic. And I'm going to miss

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Speaker 5: this as well.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's the closure here, right Sometimes the loop

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Speaker 1: has to be closed even if it's still open, because

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Speaker 1: there is no closure, there is no motive. And I

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Speaker 1: would hope that those families are all piecing together some

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Speaker 1: semblance of sanity post that I feel like we could

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Speaker 1: have gone to high school with any of the girls,

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Speaker 1: or with Ethan, and frankly even with Brian. And I

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Speaker 1: guess that's the intersection that will never quite make sense.

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Speaker 1: There is an intersection between what could have been great

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Speaker 1: that is now forever tarnish. This case ripped our hearts

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Speaker 1: out and that whole will remain and I am just

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Speaker 1: sending love and prayers to the families of the victims.

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Speaker 3: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow

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Speaker 3: us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre

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Speaker 3: is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo, and

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Speaker 3: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Toois,

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00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacer is a production

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Speaker 3: of Kati's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this,

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Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 3: into your favorite shows.