Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two ninety, episode
Speaker 1: one of Daily Day production of My Heart Radio. This
Speaker 1: is a podcast where we take a deep dive into
Speaker 1: america share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, June sixth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three.
Speaker 2: Oh, my name's Jack O'Brien. Wait, I'm thrilled to be
Speaker 2: just gloss over the day, Jack. Yeah, oh shit, I
Speaker 2: am almost National yo yo day, freak. It's National iewear Day,
Speaker 2: It's World Past Day, It's D Day quite literally June sixth,
Speaker 2: nineteen forty four, land in Normandy, National Guardening Exercise Day.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is. National Apple Sauce Cake Day,
Speaker 2: a National Driving Movie Day, Apple Sauce Cake Show. I
Speaker 2: wear day on the day after or is it the
Speaker 2: day that Apple introduces their big Oh ohpak, I am
Speaker 2: just happened. Yeah, may have just happened.
Speaker 1: My name is Jack O'Brien aka Potatoes O'Brien, and I'm
Speaker 1: thrilled to be joined as always by my co host
Speaker 1: mister Miles Great.
Speaker 2: Miles Gray, Gay Miles Morales, but the older Blazian one
Speaker 2: who's in the middle aged. Okay, I just saw the
Speaker 2: Spider Man movie. This weekends fantastic. Yeah, yeah, all right, Miles,
Speaker 2: we did it.
Speaker 1: We broke the damn format for the first time in
Speaker 1: the history of the show.
Speaker 2: We are doing a new publication schedule.
Speaker 1: You are listening to the first full episode of the
Speaker 1: week on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: We've scaled back to a mere eight episodes this week,
Speaker 2: they meager eight episode.
Speaker 1: We've scaled back to a meager eight episodes, and we're
Speaker 1: trying some new episode formats and this is one of them.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk to some listeners today. We're going
Speaker 1: to talk to an astrophysicist. In that order ye going
Speaker 1: to talk to We're going from high to low.
Speaker 2: That's right, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically the idea is we, you know, spent one
Speaker 1: thy five hundred dish episodes talking to me.
Speaker 2: Really fifteen that long? I mean, it's been that long.
Speaker 1: It's been it's been a lot, but we've been talking
Speaker 1: to I'm sorry, Is it weird to you that it
Speaker 1: that it disturbs or it's I mean, I find it
Speaker 1: weird that it's kind of kind of disturbing.
Speaker 2: That we've done that many episodes. I'd be like, and Jack,
Speaker 2: we've done it. We've done so many I'm like, what
Speaker 2: I feel like Uma Thurman and kill Bill when she's
Speaker 2: like looking at like the lines on her hands to
Speaker 2: figure out how long she's been in a coma, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I also find it disturbing how hard it is
Speaker 1: for me to do this other format revolting. Yo, I'm like,
Speaker 1: where's the comedy guest ZiT gang?
Speaker 2: Let me tell y'all. This is like every human being,
Speaker 2: when you get used to doing things a certain way,
Speaker 2: it's very very hard to do something new. And like
Speaker 2: the whole time, I was like, but this is what
Speaker 2: is this? Do I know how to talk on a
Speaker 2: microphone if I'm not yelling footnotes in the same way
Speaker 2: every day. But it's working out. It's working it is, And.
Speaker 1: Big shout out to super producer Justin, superducer Brian, all
Speaker 1: the supers producers because it's a it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a heavier lift, and we're still figuring it out
Speaker 1: as we go, but we're very excited about the two
Speaker 1: conversations we had for this episode. Yesterday was kind of
Speaker 1: more of a trending episode, catch up on all the
Speaker 1: stuff we missed over the weekend. Uh, And this episode
Speaker 1: we're talking to different people, people who aren't you know,
Speaker 1: the normal comedians or guests that we normally speak to
Speaker 1: other podcasters other podcasters.
Speaker 2: So we're doing we're doing kind of a mixed expert
Speaker 2: and mail bag episode in this first episode to kind
Speaker 2: of give you, guys an idea of the different directions
Speaker 2: that these episodes can take. So with that in mind,
Speaker 2: we are going to give you a sample of what
Speaker 2: we asked you, guys, Hey, what's something interesting about your job? Like,
Speaker 2: what are What's something you learn in your job with
Speaker 2: something people don't understand about your job? What you know,
Speaker 2: just craziest thing you ever saw? And you, guys did
Speaker 2: not disappoint. We got some amazing answers, and so we're
Speaker 2: going to be sharing those with you and having a
Speaker 2: few of you on in the coming weeks. But I
Speaker 2: do we we got one answer that we just have
Speaker 2: to have to share with people. Yeah, you're up top. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we said a message, hit us up on Discord,
Speaker 2: on Instagram, wherever, wherever we're at, at us, d m
Speaker 2: us whatever, but tell us some wild things about your work.
Speaker 2: And I'm just gonna this story. This is like one
Speaker 2: of the first messages I got on Discord. This is
Speaker 2: from We'll just call this person. And I was just
Speaker 2: saying I would like to stay anonymous always, so maybe
Speaker 2: I should. But we'll just call this person the doctor
Speaker 2: and say, I'm just gonna read their their their their
Speaker 2: DMA said, I'm in a pretty niche field. So I'm
Speaker 2: a veterinary pathologist. Basically means I did extra board certification
Speaker 2: after vet school. Veterinary pathologists equals autopsies on animals to
Speaker 2: figure out why the animal died, and biopsies to diagnose
Speaker 2: your dog's cancer, such, et cetera. So detective basically, So
Speaker 2: for simplicity steak, simplicity steak, Actually for simplicity's sake, Yes,
Speaker 2: I guess CSI slash medical mysteries for animals. But wait, wait,
Speaker 2: I get even more niche. I specifically sub specialized in
Speaker 2: wildlife veterinary pathology, gnarly stuff, but I'm interested in conservation
Speaker 2: and emerging infectious diseases. So somehow I want to try
Speaker 2: to make a difference in the world. This way a
Speaker 2: voice for the voiceless and such anyways weirdest case because
Speaker 2: again we're saying, what's the weirdest or wildest thing that happened.
Speaker 2: So this veterinary pathologist says. Weirdest case during my residency
Speaker 2: came at the Wildlife Diagnostic Center I was at. I
Speaker 2: get three bald eagles delivered to me in trash bags
Speaker 2: found at a landfill. I opened the first bag and poof,
Speaker 2: cloud of white smoke billows into my face. Couldn't help
Speaker 2: but sniff a bit more. All three egles were covered
Speaker 2: in this white powder that kind of smelled chemically to me,
Speaker 2: almost like pool cleaner. I'm taking really good whiffs of
Speaker 2: the stuff. Can't stop myself. No other interesting findings for
Speaker 2: any of the three eagles in terms of cause of death,
Speaker 2: but we always look at the organs microscopically too. I'm
Speaker 2: totally vibing out while performing autopsies on these birds. I
Speaker 2: have some music playing. It's a Friday afternoon, and things
Speaker 2: are great. If anything, I'm wired. I thankfully thought ahead
Speaker 2: and collected some vials of the white powder to submit
Speaker 2: for toxicology testing. I was super productive and the crop
Speaker 2: seed like five other animals that afternoon. Three weeks later
Speaker 2: we get the tox reports back. Cocaine. I'm kind of
Speaker 2: a tweedy in terms of anything beyond weed, So my
Speaker 2: first and only time doing cocaine has been off of
Speaker 2: dead bald eagles. You could say MRCA changes that I
Speaker 2: signed microscopically, and these three eagles were nonspecific but technically
Speaker 2: could be attributed to a cocaine overdose. I guess someone
Speaker 2: had a hideout spot in the landfill and some poor
Speaker 2: eagles weren't there for a long time, but a good time,
Speaker 2: all right, pe So shout out to that was. That
Speaker 2: was one of the first things we read, being like this,
Speaker 2: what I don't have stories like this? Yes, yes, please
Speaker 2: more of that, Daddy. That was so good. Bald eagles
Speaker 2: coked like cocaine covered bald eagles and trash bags like
Speaker 2: I never even thought of that as like a like
Speaker 2: I feel like an AI couldn't have even like generated
Speaker 2: such a visual than this first story.
Speaker 1: So and people are hiding cocaine in landfills. They're like
Speaker 1: burying their cocaine and landfill former interesting to me, the
Speaker 1: former street.
Speaker 2: Chemist in me is like, what are you what? Maybe
Speaker 2: threw away a bunch of cocaine. I wonder if it's
Speaker 2: like cocaine bear like cocaine eagle, like maybe like yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe someone threw a fucking bail out and like you
Speaker 2: hit a nest or some shit. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but anyway, those are the kinds of stories
Speaker 2: that we have been getting and we want to continue
Speaker 2: to get from you all, So please keep writing in
Speaker 2: because as we go through these are like, oh yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk to this person because yeah, you all
Speaker 2: do such fascinating things. And all I do is sit
Speaker 2: down and smoke weed and talk to a microphone.
Speaker 1: So an incredibly high bar set from that person literally
Speaker 1: figuratively amazing work. So we're going to take a quick
Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we're going to actually
Speaker 1: call all a phone on the telephone who sent in,
Speaker 1: you know, let us know some interesting things about their
Speaker 1: job as a pizza delivery man that we had some
Speaker 1: follow up questions for their description of what was happening
Speaker 1: when they're delivering pizzas. So we are going to be
Speaker 1: right back and we will talk to Hugo Boss on
Speaker 1: the discord.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: Hello, you go, Hugo bos What gentlemen, I'm just gon
Speaker 3: do this like I do every phone call in a
Speaker 3: professional setting and open it up with.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: So we're here with Hugo Bosk. I'll get the discord
Speaker 2: from the Discord. Also, I'm guessed, like I've said before,
Speaker 2: I think when we referenced your name from AKA, that
Speaker 2: you're referencing the bounty hunter. Correct.
Speaker 4: I am, yeah.
Speaker 2: Jack, you know all about Bosk. Correct.
Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't call myself a boss expert, but
Speaker 4: I definitely I'm a Star Wars fan for sure.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I was. I was shaming our other Star
Speaker 2: Wars expert Jack just now asking a lot about just learning.
Speaker 1: I'm like going through a crash course, but your your
Speaker 1: name when you did a AKA actually brought up, like
Speaker 1: my my lack of knowledge of Star Wars and how
Speaker 1: I'm cramming to try to just keep.
Speaker 2: Up in my damn household. People don't know what a
Speaker 2: trandoshan is. Jack, That's the thing. They look like the
Speaker 2: little lizard headed people. Anyway, all that to say, here
Speaker 2: we are our first Zeit gang and like worker interview.
Speaker 2: What have we even calling this? Jack? Yeah, Worker interviews,
Speaker 2: zite gang?
Speaker 1: I think is it those where to take a whiz y'all?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you know, we we had some people who worked
Speaker 1: for certain we're gonna, you know, keep doing this segment.
Speaker 1: We had some people who like do all sorts of
Speaker 1: really like high brow crazy stuff. But as it is,
Speaker 1: when I'm making my decision of where to order pizza,
Speaker 1: we gotta go Dominoes. You know, doesn't doesn't matter what's
Speaker 1: on off or elsewhere. We gotta go Dominoes first.
Speaker 2: But no, you go.
Speaker 1: You wrote in and basically said that being a Domino's
Speaker 1: pizza delivery driver is a fascinating angle to view the
Speaker 1: world from, and I'm just curious to hear more about that.
Speaker 1: What are what are things that you are seeing as
Speaker 1: a pizza delivery guy.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the most interesting thing about it
Speaker 4: is that you kind of get to experience almost every
Speaker 4: day sort of every level of American society in terms
Speaker 4: of class, in terms of workplace, in terms of age, demographic. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's I mean, I feel like there are a lot
Speaker 4: of jobs, and I've had many of them where you
Speaker 4: you know, sit behind a desk all day or you
Speaker 4: stand behind a counter all day and you just interact
Speaker 4: with the people in front of you or around you,
Speaker 4: And this job is it's fascinating in that, you know,
Speaker 4: you interact with every level of the economic stratum, from
Speaker 4: people living on the street or in RVs all the
Speaker 4: way up to people living in multimillion dollar mansions and
Speaker 4: every point in between.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, like do do people in mansions? Do their
Speaker 2: houses smell like shit? You know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: one of.
Speaker 4: The things I was very surprised by in the chorus
Speaker 4: of this job, because you know, when you are right
Speaker 4: people's front doors, you get to see into at least
Speaker 4: the open area of a lot of people's.
Speaker 2: Homes, right right.
Speaker 4: And one of the things I was genuinely most surprised
Speaker 4: by was that very wealthy people are just as filthy
Speaker 4: as everyone else, Okay, or at least been like the
Speaker 4: same proportion of like people who like don't take care
Speaker 4: of their homes versus people who do.
Speaker 2: Oh, right, Because in your mind, you're like, this person
Speaker 2: who surely has this, like this bit gigantic home must
Speaker 2: take pride in keeping it completely clean.
Speaker 4: Right, I would think if nothing, they could at least
Speaker 4: like afford to pay somebody to come around and take
Speaker 4: care of it. Sure, but I regularly deliver to multiple
Speaker 4: like multimillion dollar homes that are just absolute sties. Just
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're hoarders or if they just
Speaker 4: have just been setting stuff down since they moved in
Speaker 4: there and never picked up anything since.
Speaker 2: Right, it's too big. The house is too big, They've
Speaker 2: got too much shit. They can't pick it all up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they probably do hire people to pick it up,
Speaker 1: and it's just so like they're worse somehow. That's that's
Speaker 1: really incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just go right back to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially with the way in which you know, houses
Speaker 4: are sort of the closest thing that most people have
Speaker 4: to a way to retire in this country in terms
Speaker 4: of like homeownership being the one asset that you're supposed
Speaker 4: to like take really good care of so that eventually
Speaker 4: we're retired, you can sell it off. I don't know
Speaker 4: if it's if there's some sort of disconnect where they
Speaker 4: have so much wealth that they just don't have to
Speaker 4: think about it that way.
Speaker 1: Right, I feel like wealth like probably there's some shared
Speaker 1: mental thing with accumulating wealth and being a hoarder, right,
Speaker 1: Like you're accumulating an illogical, irrational, immoral amount of wealth.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're doing the same thing with with object o Jack.
Speaker 2: Some of these people are just unburdening themselves, that's right. Well,
Speaker 2: I just have to what other stuff, Like what other
Speaker 2: things do you see, Like, what's the like, what's the
Speaker 2: wild ship that you see? Because I know obviously on
Speaker 2: top of again, like starting from a very foundational level,
Speaker 2: you're like you kind of see it all like doing
Speaker 2: what I do. But what are the parts that I
Speaker 2: think you know, Like in my mind, the concept of
Speaker 2: a like a pizza delivery person, I'm like, it's either
Speaker 2: starting off a porno or they witness like a robbery
Speaker 2: or something things like that. Are you are do you
Speaker 2: find yourself in situations like that? Or is that just me?
Speaker 2: Is that mostly the movie Hollywood brain?
Speaker 4: I've I mean, I've definitely seen some strange stuff out
Speaker 4: there and also just people acting in extreme ways. Let's
Speaker 4: say there are definitely some people who really don't take
Speaker 4: it well when you won't give them the thing that
Speaker 4: they want that you can't actually make.
Speaker 2: Right, Like I feel like I see this all the time.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like people just since you know, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty and like all the lockdowns are becoming more just
Speaker 2: rude to anyone. Yeah, any service capacity or like retail capacity,
Speaker 2: I'm guessing it's no probably no different, Like does that
Speaker 2: bleed into even when you deliver? Like I feel like
Speaker 2: when someone brings the pizza. You're like, yeah, the pizza,
Speaker 2: and you also get other people like look, what the fuck?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I will say there's definitely a different, like a
Speaker 4: very marked difference between people who come to pick up
Speaker 4: carry out versus people that you delivered to. Generally speaking,
Speaker 4: I've been delivering for like seven years now because the
Speaker 4: money is shockingly good for how easy of a job
Speaker 4: that it is. When you go to people's doors. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think I've only ever had one said somebody was
Speaker 4: like upset when I got there, and it was because
Speaker 4: we were insanely busy when I was two and a
Speaker 4: half hours late with their food, which that is pretty
Speaker 4: reasonable to be upset about.
Speaker 2: That's gotta be a tough But what did the tracker
Speaker 2: tell them?
Speaker 4: Well, okay, just to roll in on a little secret
Speaker 4: with the Domino's tracker, it doesn't actually track anything. It's
Speaker 4: just a timer.
Speaker 1: We heard that and that I didn't want to believe it,
Speaker 1: And the whole podcast has actually been building to this
Speaker 1: moment where we confirm this reveal and I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do with myself at this point. So are
Speaker 1: the names random? Are the names at least true? Is
Speaker 1: Brian putting my pizza in the oven.
Speaker 4: They do use the real names, although it is like
Speaker 4: they are somewhat randomly assigning the like who is actually
Speaker 4: might not be actually putting your pizza in the and
Speaker 4: all that?
Speaker 2: Right? How many? How many people like answer the door
Speaker 2: butt naked?
Speaker 4: Yeah? So that was actually one of the things that
Speaker 4: I was genuinely shocked by with this job is the
Speaker 4: number of genitals that you end.
Speaker 2: Up seeing, like for real, for like for real, for real?
Speaker 4: Yeah, mostly dicks.
Speaker 1: What I know, I know, I've heard everything. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: wrote in your thing like more, I've seen more dicks
Speaker 1: than you'd expect. And I assumed you meant people acting
Speaker 1: like dicks, not like penis dicks. It's actual pianistics you're seeing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I just between when we did a
Speaker 4: little pre interview and now I had another incidental It
Speaker 4: was a woman this time. Wow, but just somebody coming
Speaker 4: to the door and wearing a T shirt and nothing
Speaker 4: else and the T shirt wasn't long.
Speaker 2: Enough right with the So is how freak? How frequent?
Speaker 2: Just real quick, like, how frequently is that happening?
Speaker 4: I mean I've been doing this for about seven years now.
Speaker 4: I would say that I've had it happen at this
Speaker 4: point about two dozen times, so maybe like two to
Speaker 4: three times a year.
Speaker 2: Damn. So is it always on some like predatory ship
Speaker 2: Like are people just trying to like flash you like that?
Speaker 2: Or are some people completely like out of sorts and
Speaker 2: like oh shit, I got one.
Speaker 4: I have some theories about this. Part of it. I
Speaker 4: do think is that I live in a place where
Speaker 4: weed is legal, and you know, we we like to
Speaker 4: we like to blaze up, sure, and I think a
Speaker 4: lot of people are as part of their like day
Speaker 4: off ritual, you know, they blaze up. They maybe grab
Speaker 4: a shower and order a pizza, they throw on a shirt,
Speaker 4: and then they come to the door just like so
Speaker 4: blazed up that they're not thinking about.
Speaker 2: Oh so like you're looking at people like with eyes
Speaker 2: redder than the state of Arkansas.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, people with eyes red like stop signs.
Speaker 2: Right right right? Oh got it? Because part of me
Speaker 2: is like that sucks, like if you're just also having
Speaker 2: to contend with just like fucking perverts who are like.
Speaker 4: Eh ye, I mean I will say there the very
Speaker 4: first time that happened, it was a dude who just
Speaker 4: came to the door just fully nude and in fairness
Speaker 4: to him. I mean, dude had a hammer. Like I
Speaker 4: also would not ever wear pants if I was back
Speaker 4: in my bag, I was packing like it was it
Speaker 4: was at.
Speaker 2: Of he was wielding a hammer. Fanness, he did seem
Speaker 2: unhinged with a hammer, so I just kept him moving.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody shows up to the door and naked with
Speaker 4: a hammer. I'm not going to complete that friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, but they don't, so they there's not
Speaker 1: a moment where they're like, oh my god, I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry and like run input because that's the thing. Like
Speaker 1: I've had like stress dreams, you know, the famous stress
Speaker 1: dream of like now you realize you're not wearing pants,
Speaker 1: I'm like a speech or something like. It seems like
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that could happen to someone as
Speaker 1: like in a quick moment of like not you know,
Speaker 1: being fully aware, but the second you see the person,
Speaker 1: it feels like you would immediately. But but you're saying
Speaker 1: they complete the whole transaction just pooh bearing it just
Speaker 1: Donald Duck.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just just Donald Duck in it. And yeah, I
Speaker 4: think it's a combination of like if people who literally
Speaker 4: aren't aware of the fact they're you know, showing junk
Speaker 4: and people who uh I think maybe in a in
Speaker 4: a prior era would have been exhibitionists or flatterers, right,
Speaker 4: but as sort of our culture has become more automated
Speaker 4: and like less, you know, there are fewer third spaces
Speaker 4: in which to expose yourselves to people.
Speaker 2: This is proof we need community.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I hate to say it, but in
Speaker 4: a weird way, I really do think that it is.
Speaker 4: And so because we have so much more, like so
Speaker 4: many more services where people are coming right to your door,
Speaker 4: the opportunity space for people to engage in that kind
Speaker 4: of I don't know if you would call it a
Speaker 4: fetish or just a sex crime, but I think that
Speaker 4: a lot of it is transferred to the the door
Speaker 4: people of the world, you know, delivery guys like me
Speaker 4: or like your Amazon guy or what have you, right,
Speaker 4: or your Uber eats, you know, the guy who's dropping
Speaker 4: off your Starbucks. Yeah, however they self identify.
Speaker 2: In every context.
Speaker 1: I'm always amazed by that, Like how many people have
Speaker 1: that impulse to show everybody there dick, Like when chat
Speaker 1: Roulette came online and like that was just all anybody
Speaker 1: was using it for. Oh, so yeah, it is a
Speaker 1: crime like this ship I obviously shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2: Unless you are unless you showed up to the Dick Show, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think Yeah, I don't think that's a consent thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I always think too about I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, we have female drivers, and I always wonder,
Speaker 4: at least I've never heard from them that they're doing this,
Speaker 4: So to an extent, I almost wonder if the fact
Speaker 4: that they have like the tracker and they can see
Speaker 4: whose name it is, right determines whether they're doing that.
Speaker 4: This could all just be a hitchcocky and plot to
Speaker 4: drive me mad. I've conserved that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who would be a behind such a thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does seem to happen enough that I'm like,
Speaker 4: something's up here, right this, this must happen to other.
Speaker 2: People, right right? It can't just be me. What's I mean?
Speaker 2: Tell me like just sort of from you know, from
Speaker 2: doing this job. What is like kind of what what?
Speaker 2: What's the shit that irks you the most about the
Speaker 2: work or about the what it means to you know,
Speaker 2: do the work you do, whether that's in the context
Speaker 2: of what like people who are interacting with you don't
Speaker 2: understand or even like the you know, the fucking business
Speaker 2: owners of sure franchise don't even understand.
Speaker 4: Uh Well, part of it is that the franchisees are
Speaker 4: extremely cheap, extremely right wing people, and they don't believe
Speaker 4: in uh like updating or replacing equipment and other necessary
Speaker 4: tools in a timely manner. So it's always pulling teeth
Speaker 4: to get the things out of them that you need
Speaker 4: from them, sometimes months.
Speaker 2: Right, Like, what are those like? So what are those
Speaker 2: kinds of like those tools that you like that.
Speaker 4: Are I mean even just basic stuff like uniforms and
Speaker 4: like replacement kitchen tool stuff, getting things fixed, right, wow,
Speaker 4: just just the most baseduff that you would think would
Speaker 4: be like part of being a responsible business owner.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I Mean these are people who just like they bend
Speaker 4: like a compound way way outside of the city.
Speaker 2: And siphoning money from this.
Speaker 4: Right, and then they just have the managers that they
Speaker 4: send around to you know, make sure everything is basically
Speaker 4: running and collect the checks so to speak. Right, And
Speaker 4: I suspect that that this level of gentry for lack
Speaker 4: of a better term, that every like major city in
Speaker 4: town is full of these kinds of people, or rather
Speaker 4: it is its power structure is full of these kinds
Speaker 4: of people.
Speaker 1: Right, people are just like, ah, this is just passive money.
Speaker 1: I just get to sit back and not do this
Speaker 1: job in any way and make other people's lives miserable.
Speaker 1: But I'm insulated enough from it that, oh yes there was.
Speaker 2: I worked with somebody who's family were like the like
Speaker 2: in the top five franchise owners of Dominoes, and like,
Speaker 2: for the longest time, I was like, what what do
Speaker 2: y'all do but this and the like? And like one
Speaker 2: of my other friends like, it's all Domino's money, Like
Speaker 2: they have a seventy wretch or some obscene number of
Speaker 2: franchises that they just sort of like, yeah, and that's
Speaker 2: kind of where all the money comes from. And I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I failed to realize like those sort of mini
Speaker 2: like fiefdoms of like owning numerous franchises. That's wild. I'm
Speaker 2: also curious, like what are I think you know, Jack,
Speaker 2: we were talking about like we kind of want to
Speaker 2: do overrated and underrated too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what's something that you like about your job
Speaker 1: or like a skill that your job kind of requires
Speaker 1: or has like given you access to.
Speaker 4: I mean, I will say the two most underrated things
Speaker 4: about the job. One is I get to listen to
Speaker 4: podcasts all day, and that is I'll be honest, It's
Speaker 4: part of the reason it's hard to leave that job,
Speaker 4: the idea of having to work in a place where
Speaker 4: I have to like just my own thoughts and just
Speaker 4: stand there doing whatever in my head all day instead
Speaker 4: of just getting to listen to podcasts all day and
Speaker 4: hand people who change for money that don't know if
Speaker 4: I can go back guys. But also it definitely and
Speaker 4: I've had prior jobs that sort of did this to
Speaker 4: a degree. I worked at a call center for comcasts
Speaker 4: many years ago. It just sort of forces you to
Speaker 4: be a level of social that I think a lot
Speaker 4: of people are no longer forced to be, where insofar
Speaker 4: as you're social, it comes to this extremely mediated interaction
Speaker 4: where you're like worldway through like a sort of pre
Speaker 4: written conversation. Whereas, at least in the context of being
Speaker 4: a pizza guy, I mean, the you know, the interaction
Speaker 4: you have often are fairly perfunctory, but there's still real
Speaker 4: in a way than any other job that I have,
Speaker 4: because people are always happy to see you. Yeah, nobody
Speaker 4: pissed off because their pizza has arrived, right and so
Speaker 4: you do get to see. Sorry, I'm trying to think
Speaker 4: of like a way to articulate this.
Speaker 2: Is it like heartening, it's like life affirming in a way,
Speaker 2: or is.
Speaker 4: It in a way? I mean it isn't. It isn't
Speaker 4: the sure the where when you asked before about like
Speaker 4: the thing that is most frushed about the job, what
Speaker 4: came to mind was people who don't tip. Sure, as
Speaker 4: far as I concerned, our moral monsters.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well yeah, the way this country operates like
Speaker 2: it's incumbent on on tipping.
Speaker 4: Right, You would think over time I would get more
Speaker 4: used to it and just eventually stop caring. But if anything,
Speaker 4: the longer I do the job, the more just every time,
Speaker 4: it just feels like a core betrayal of the social.
Speaker 2: Compact, right right, Yeah, I be wrong.
Speaker 4: I understand the history of tipping and that it was
Speaker 4: originally instituted for like racist reasons and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, after slavery. But yeah, but but look at but
Speaker 2: here we are now and now everybody suffers under that
Speaker 2: ship exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: And and that's the thing is, at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, if you can afford to order your home,
Speaker 4: you can afford to tip, right, it just just full
Speaker 4: stop it. It's like going to a restaurant through a
Speaker 4: bar and then not tipping your waiter or your bartender.
Speaker 4: Like it's just as rude. Sure, sorry, I put some frank.
Speaker 2: Totally. I think it's anything I see all the time.
Speaker 2: People debate this though, like about like I'm not tipping
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and like do you understand like what
Speaker 2: the the toll? It would a take on your vehicle
Speaker 2: if you have it's your own car, and then that
Speaker 2: there's gas and these other there's It's not just like well,
Speaker 2: that's what they get paid to do. There's all these
Speaker 2: other parts of a job that I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people don't understand or or really look at it
Speaker 2: very narrowly as to who does or does not you know,
Speaker 2: deserve a tip, like in a given industry.
Speaker 4: I mean, I do think that there is an extent
Speaker 4: to especially if you don't take the time to pay
Speaker 4: attention to it. These sort of like logistics behind how
Speaker 4: everything works are sort of masked for most people, and
Speaker 4: so unless you really spend the time to look into it,
Speaker 4: you sort of end up with these very almost like
Speaker 4: magical thinking perceptions of the world. Like I based on
Speaker 4: interactions that I've had with customers, I think there is
Speaker 4: a substantial percentage of them who think the pizza just
Speaker 4: comes out of like a magical hole in the wall. Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: Like people will come in and ask for food and
Speaker 4: then we'll be like, Okay, it's gonna be like ten
Speaker 4: to fifteen minutes to make, and they'll be like, you
Speaker 4: don't have it ready, Like.
Speaker 2: The words just left your mouth, my dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I think it's masked intentionally, right, Like
Speaker 1: that is more and more of the world that we're
Speaker 1: built into. Is that everything, like all the behind the
Speaker 1: scenes stuff, like that's what Amazon puts behind a wall.
Speaker 1: That's what a lot a lot of these you know,
Speaker 1: food delivery services put behind a wall is. And I
Speaker 1: guess Domino's was at the at the forefront of that
Speaker 1: of just getting rid of any human interaction other than
Speaker 1: like that quick transactional moment like that. That's what the
Speaker 1: people who build this system called friction, and they want
Speaker 1: to like create less friction. And it's like it's very
Speaker 1: bleak and also makes us all dumber.
Speaker 4: I think it's of a sell it, But to be honest,
Speaker 4: I think it's a form of oblique union busting. Right
Speaker 4: that essentially, after the sort of the height of unionism
Speaker 4: in like the sixties and seventies, capital started to rearrange
Speaker 4: the actual physical terrain of how businesses are put together
Speaker 4: in order to prevent unions from arising. Like now factories
Speaker 4: are out in the middle of nowhere instead of in
Speaker 4: a city where they have like a set of third
Speaker 4: plate of bars and stuff like that around them, where
Speaker 4: like people can get together after work and talk to
Speaker 4: their coworkers. Now, you know, if you work in a factory, yeah,
Speaker 4: you're out in the middle of nowhere. You live in
Speaker 4: a house that's out in the middle of nowhere that
Speaker 4: you drive thirty miles to and then you drive back
Speaker 4: to your house. Everyone is literally atomized in a way
Speaker 4: that exactly. I don't want to sound like conspiracy brainout
Speaker 4: it because I don't think that it's that. I do
Speaker 4: think that it's more like aggregate classes acting in their
Speaker 4: own interests, right, But the asymmetry of power because they
Speaker 4: have so much more money and political access, allows them
Speaker 4: to rearrange that terrain. And I think that that's true
Speaker 4: with stuff like like like that masking is just a
Speaker 4: side effect of that process. I think right that if
Speaker 4: you can't see the labor conditions, then you can't even
Speaker 4: build the awareness necessary to overcome them.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Why would I worry about this guy who just gets
Speaker 1: the pizza out of the.
Speaker 2: Hole in the wall down the street from me and
Speaker 2: brings it to me in a duffel bag takes twenty
Speaker 2: minutes to get it from the hole in the wall
Speaker 2: to my mouth. The hell?
Speaker 1: I always think about that. There's this anecdote that like
Speaker 1: London cab drivers have like this super powered part of
Speaker 1: their brain that you know, they have access to, just
Speaker 1: like and now obviously we have GPS, but like, is
Speaker 1: there anything that you know better than you know people
Speaker 1: might expect based on what's it's a superpower?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you definitely, at least for your delivery
Speaker 4: area or mine. I suppose you do get like a
Speaker 4: perfect mental map after a while, to the point where
Speaker 4: people can just tell you where they're at. In a
Speaker 4: more general sense, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I know
Speaker 4: exactly where to find you, or you know all the
Speaker 4: little like tricks of oh, this building is impossible to
Speaker 4: park at, so here's where you have to go instead
Speaker 4: in order to get to them. And also you you
Speaker 4: sort of you see the insides of lots of places,
Speaker 4: and people just sort of freely give you the like
Speaker 4: access codes to their buildings or offices constantly, to the
Speaker 4: point where I often think about how like if somebody
Speaker 4: wanted to, you know, be like a like a serial thief,
Speaker 4: become a pizza driver. Like people will just give you
Speaker 4: access to everything. It's wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I guess like the sort of your defenses
Speaker 2: go down because they're like, well, they're only here to
Speaker 2: deliver the thing and not remember how to get into
Speaker 2: this bank building.
Speaker 4: Well not just like you. You almost get treated as
Speaker 4: like like background noise. Like I've definitely delivered to like
Speaker 4: business meetings where people are like discussing high level stuff
Speaker 4: and I am just not there as far as they're concerned, Right,
Speaker 4: I am just like a like a like a Star
Speaker 4: Wars droid. It's just like putting pizzas on the table
Speaker 4: for them, and that can just be safely ignored, right right.
Speaker 1: Ye, Ocean's eleven needs to hire a Domino's delivery driver
Speaker 1: to their crew. Domino's ca Burglar.
Speaker 2: That's just the new way to you infiltrate, Like the
Speaker 2: Capitol just like, oh no, just going to the ray
Speaker 2: Burn building, just with some pizzas to Senator Schumer's office
Speaker 2: and then just like who stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, I I genuinely wonder sometimes if any
Speaker 4: like clever foreign power has ever like gotten a guy
Speaker 4: into the Pentagon by literally just waiting until they ordered
Speaker 4: a pizza and then intercepting that and sending their own
Speaker 4: guy in. Because I'm sure they can.
Speaker 2: Get that all the time where I've been like access
Speaker 2: controlled buildings and like you can tell someone's getting like
Speaker 2: a delivery and you just open the door. You're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah you can, you're dropping something off, go ahead, And
Speaker 2: I never bets. I'm like they, I don't know they
Speaker 2: had a shopping bag. It all seems up and up. Well,
Speaker 2: one thing I like to ask, right because I'm a
Speaker 2: big fast food head and food head in general, it's
Speaker 2: actually a two part question. Are the secret codes real
Speaker 2: at Dominoes? And are this? Is there a secret menu
Speaker 2: at Dominoes?
Speaker 4: I'll be honest, there aren't as far as I'm aware
Speaker 4: secret codes. If there are, nobody's revealed them to me.
Speaker 4: And I feel like I've been far and away the
Speaker 4: longest serving peace person at that store. So if there were,
Speaker 4: I feel like I would have found out about them.
Speaker 2: But do you know what I'm talking about, like about
Speaker 2: like there's like these coupon codes.
Speaker 4: Oh well, I mean there are like codes that only
Speaker 4: we as employees can use that are just for us.
Speaker 4: But to be honest, I don't know if it varies
Speaker 4: from franchise to franchise, but the ones that buzz not
Speaker 4: actually as good. It is the ones the customers happier discus.
Speaker 2: Right right, they're like, what did we say? You go
Speaker 2: three pepperonis on there? That's it. Don't don't lose your ship.
Speaker 4: Now, insofar as the secret menu goes, there are definitely
Speaker 4: like combinations of food that we make for ourselves that
Speaker 4: are not on the menu. Yeah, okay, Like I I
Speaker 4: do like what what I've called the heart Attack special,
Speaker 4: which is the Wisconsin three cheese with salami.
Speaker 2: Onto something called the Wisconsin three Cheese Amazing.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, and you tucked the salami in under the
Speaker 4: cheese for the layering, yeah, John style. Yeah. And they
Speaker 4: just they just debuted that new loaded tot item a
Speaker 4: little while back, and we've been experimenting with mixing that
Speaker 4: with the chicken and doing like a thing where it's
Speaker 4: like cheese blend and some bacon and then doing like
Speaker 4: a menu hob and arrow sauce drizzle and like some
Speaker 4: of the regular like hots of Barbie sauce combined with
Speaker 4: that for like a real like good sort of spicy savory. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's good stuff. But yeah, you can't really order it.
Speaker 4: There's not like a way you can be like secretly
Speaker 4: ordering it off the menu, because a it would be
Speaker 4: crazy expensive and be with like the really good stuff
Speaker 4: that we make for ourselves there, it would take too
Speaker 4: long to make for a regular customer, it would take
Speaker 4: like twenty minutes because we're putting it through the oven
Speaker 4: multiple times.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 4: One of the things I will you know, put out
Speaker 4: there to the listeners as like a good hack for
Speaker 4: our wings. Never let them put them through just once.
Speaker 4: Always make sure they put them through at least a
Speaker 4: second time. If you're willing to wait.
Speaker 2: Well done, ask for them well done. What you like
Speaker 2: you asked for it like that way, like oh good question.
Speaker 4: So the thing is when you order well done, all
Speaker 4: we do is just like push it back in the
Speaker 4: oven like one like length of the tray back wings.
Speaker 4: You genuinely want to wait the extra ten minutes to
Speaker 4: like have them put it through a second time. If
Speaker 4: they're willing, allis they will not be. Just to warn you, like,
Speaker 4: don't be surprised if you ask them, they're like, we're
Speaker 4: not going to do that.
Speaker 2: They're like, who the fuck told you that?
Speaker 4: Man, Yeah, there's a decent chance. That's the response you
Speaker 4: will get. But if they're cool about it, or if
Speaker 4: it's a slow day that day, ask them if they
Speaker 4: will put it through a second time for you, because
Speaker 4: then the wings actually come out closer to I won't
Speaker 4: call them great.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I know what you mean, because yeah, then
Speaker 2: they're not when they're feel like slightly undercooked or not undercooked,
Speaker 2: like in terms like they're inedible. I'm like, these could
Speaker 2: get a little bit more of a cook on them,
Speaker 2: just for Yeah.
Speaker 4: They did used to have an item which I desperately
Speaker 4: wish they would bring back, and I think they still
Speaker 4: have other franchises, A half dip chocolate cookie. Do they
Speaker 4: have that where you guys are at No?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: No, Yeah, that was that was one that I was
Speaker 4: a big fan of for a long time. You take
Speaker 4: one of those, throw it in the microwave for like
Speaker 4: ten seconds and it just comes out just oh beautiful.
Speaker 2: I mean they should have I mean they should have
Speaker 2: a unified menu with all the states that have legalized cannabis,
Speaker 2: you know, like, I think that just makes sense as
Speaker 2: a general business practice.
Speaker 4: I mean, all be honest, I am genuinely surprised that
Speaker 4: they haven't gone the route of Jack in the Box,
Speaker 4: where Jack in the Box just openly has it's like
Speaker 4: Munchy menu, where it's just like listen, stoners, we are
Speaker 4: here for you. We know where our business comes from,
Speaker 4: right right, right, And I feel like enough of Dominoes'
Speaker 4: business also comes from that same crowd that it's wild
Speaker 4: to me that we haven't literally sort of just been like, hey, guys,
Speaker 4: we got something for you.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, look weed. You guys like weed? Right, we
Speaker 2: get it. We know, try this new one out. All right.
Speaker 1: Well, hugo, this has been such a pleasure. We really
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2: This was a blast.
Speaker 1: I feel both more informed on you know, your particular job,
Speaker 1: and worse about humanity based on the number of people
Speaker 1: who are showing you their dicks. But yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: very thrilled that you are a listener. You're really smart dude,
Speaker 1: and it was really great talking to you.
Speaker 4: Thank you. And likewise, I just if I may say, Uh,
Speaker 4: I've Jack, I've been following since the since the beginning
Speaker 4: of Cracked, uh and Miles since you started on the podcast.
Speaker 4: Giant fans of both. You just can't thank you enough
Speaker 4: for all of the first and hours of entertainment and
Speaker 4: insight that you all have given me. I just from
Speaker 4: the bottom of my heart, thank you, guys.
Speaker 2: Well, we've are just as indebted to Zite Gang for
Speaker 2: making this a thing that we can continue doing all together.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it goes both ways, and we really
Speaker 2: appreciate you all, especially you for being our inaugural listener.
Speaker 4: Genuinely honored by that. You guys, I had no idea, really,
Speaker 4: I you know, I'm almost well enough. It's it is
Speaker 4: genuinely a real honor to be the first.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, you go get back to catching those
Speaker 2: vagabonds out there and get back to your trans ocean
Speaker 2: bouncy hunting ways.
Speaker 4: Absolutely all right.
Speaker 1: Thanks all right, folks, Thank you again to listener Hugo
Speaker 1: Bosk on the discord for talking us through, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: life out there in these streets delivering the Domino's pizza
Speaker 1: that everyone craves.
Speaker 2: I just didn't even think about the like when you
Speaker 2: go to these like like restaurants and stuff where everything's
Speaker 2: behind a wall. Yeah, you absolutely, it just becomes completely obscure.
Speaker 2: And I really never, truly never considered the fact of
Speaker 2: how like taking away that visual of workers working with
Speaker 2: somehow like is a very ghost done by ghosts. I
Speaker 2: wish I had brought that up a ghost kitchen.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, yeah, it's a some mythical character that
Speaker 1: makes your pizza sport to the middle class.
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: Okay, So with the important business out of the way,
Speaker 1: we also wanted to talk to the theoretical physicist who
Speaker 1: works on astrophysics and cosmology. Was the or I think
Speaker 1: is the Frank B. Baird, Junior Professor of Science at
Speaker 1: Harvard University, was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department
Speaker 1: of Astronomy and is the founding director of Harvard's Black
Speaker 1: Hole Initiative. And also, is you know open to ideas
Speaker 1: around you know, extraterrestrialism, like what first contact is going
Speaker 1: to look like? The sort of thing that you guys
Speaker 1: have heard me just not be able to stop talking
Speaker 1: about I've sometimes said, like why is why do we
Speaker 1: ever talk about anything else? I sometimes wonder, But just
Speaker 1: a fascinating question, especially right now, you know, we're as
Speaker 1: we're we mentioned on yesterday's you know, weekend catch up.
Speaker 1: There's there's been a constant back and forth on UAP
Speaker 1: in the media, but recently NASA is in paneling a
Speaker 1: group of experts to figure out like the best way
Speaker 1: to assess these UAP phenomena. They were like, yeah, there,
Speaker 1: for instance, there are a lot of metallic orbs hovering
Speaker 1: around the globe that we have caught on various you
Speaker 1: know cameras that we can't can't really explain. So we
Speaker 1: are going to try to we want to start investing
Speaker 1: in getting scientific reading, you know, scientific observation of these things.
Speaker 2: And it's it's like it's kind of it's this isn't
Speaker 2: something NASA does. Like ever, they never weighed into the
Speaker 2: arena like about UFOs or UAPs or whatever you want
Speaker 2: to call them. So like it just shows, like as
Speaker 2: as more and more of these sort of clips or
Speaker 2: like videos or anecdotes and things come out about UAPs
Speaker 2: or observable phenomenon and things like that. It's just like
Speaker 2: more and more agencies are like, maybe we need to
Speaker 2: talk about this also. But it's interesting how like how
Speaker 2: contentious it is too, because that first meeting there were
Speaker 2: a lot of people who are like, what are you
Speaker 2: guys hiding from us? As like it's kind of the
Speaker 2: energy from some people of course, but again this is
Speaker 2: because it's around like such a huge, like existential question
Speaker 2: of is is it more than this little marble we're
Speaker 2: on And I think I mean, like, like you'll hear
Speaker 2: me say in the interview, like I've I can't imagine
Speaker 2: why we could be alone just given the probability of everything.
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not thinking, like, and it's the only place
Speaker 2: that special is here, and I'm the most special one
Speaker 2: here my little boys in the universe.
Speaker 1: And yeah, there is one part where I think obviously
Speaker 1: suggests that the world doesn't revolve around me as a
Speaker 1: as an individual.
Speaker 2: And I may have cut that out because that was
Speaker 2: one of the most inflammatory things we'd heard on this podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we probably cut it, but I just everybody knows that
Speaker 2: I disagree with that. But yeah, interesting station, interesting time
Speaker 2: for people who are open to the idea of you know,
Speaker 2: U aps and we talk about the very specific case
Speaker 2: of a muamua and all sorts of interesting things around that.
Speaker 2: So we're going to do that right after this.
Speaker 1: Break, and we will be back at the end to
Speaker 1: wrap things up. So we will be right back to
Speaker 1: talk to doctor A Vi lope.
Speaker 4: Av.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, doctor Avi Lobe,
Speaker 1: Doctor A. We're not familiar.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll get there in the intro.
Speaker 5: You don't need to spend too much time on the
Speaker 5: intro and just call me a farm boy.
Speaker 2: Farm boy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was going to do, actually, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to say this next person is a farm
Speaker 1: boy who we found on the side of the road
Speaker 1: to talk to us. No, you know, I've been reading
Speaker 1: you for a while now, but I want to get
Speaker 1: people kind of up to speed about who you are
Speaker 1: and your career.
Speaker 2: You didn't spend your career.
Speaker 1: Thinking about contact with extraterrestrial intelligence, or at least that
Speaker 1: was not your area of expertise, right, Your area of
Speaker 1: expertise was black holes, and then you came across some
Speaker 1: ideas that sent you down this path. So I was
Speaker 1: just wondering if you could describe your career up to
Speaker 1: that inflection point and then talk about kind of what
Speaker 1: those ideas were.
Speaker 5: Well, let's start from the beginning. I grew up on
Speaker 5: a farm, and I was mostly interested in the big
Speaker 5: questions that were in the realm of philosophy, and I
Speaker 5: thought of becoming a philosopher, but then the circumstances forced
Speaker 5: me to pursue physics because that was the closest to
Speaker 5: philosophy that I could get while serving in the Israeli
Speaker 5: military in a special program that allowed me to fe
Speaker 5: finish my PhD at age twenty four in physics and mathematics.
Speaker 5: At that point I said, well, it looks like I'm
Speaker 5: even though it was an arranged marriage, I'm actually married
Speaker 5: to my true love. Because in the context of astrophysics,
Speaker 5: there are some basic fundamental questions that we can ask
Speaker 5: about our existence. For example, where did we come from?
Speaker 5: How did the universe start? So my first projects were
Speaker 5: about the first stars, the first galaxies, and you know,
Speaker 5: the most fundamental question perhaps that we can ask is
Speaker 5: are we alone? Is there anyone else out there? And
Speaker 5: in twenty seventeen October nineteen, the first report about an
Speaker 5: object from outside the Solar System was announced, and I
Speaker 5: did not expect that because a decade earlier I wrote
Speaker 5: a paper saying that this telescope in Hawaii pun stars
Speaker 5: should not find any rocks from other planetary systems like
Speaker 5: the Solar System. We show that, based on what we
Speaker 5: know about the Solar System, the number of rocks per
Speaker 5: unit volume in interstellar space is so small that the
Speaker 5: telescope will not find anything. So to me, that was intriguing.
Speaker 5: But as time went on, this first object appeared to
Speaker 5: be anomalous. It was given the name of Mua Mua,
Speaker 5: which means a scout in the Hawaiian language. Also, it
Speaker 5: was pushed away from the Sun by some mysterious force
Speaker 5: without any cometary taale. So to answer your question, this
Speaker 5: brought me to a new subject that I started working
Speaker 5: on over the past six years, which is the possibility
Speaker 5: that we are not alone, that there might be technological
Speaker 5: objects near Earth that were sent by an extraterrestrial civilization
Speaker 5: far away. Because you know, just to put things in context,
Speaker 5: most of the stars form billions of years before the Sun,
Speaker 5: and it takes half a billionaeres for spacecraft of the
Speaker 5: type that we sent to to traverse the entire Milky
Speaker 5: Way galaxy. So they could have made it here and
Speaker 5: by the way, this morning, that was the report by
Speaker 5: very reputable journalists that interviewed a former government employee who
Speaker 5: disclosed that the US government has a special section analyzing
Speaker 5: objects that are non human in origin and without giving
Speaker 5: further details. So it's interesting to see how this will unfold.
Speaker 5: And I should say that I myself established a scientific
Speaker 5: project called the Galileo Project, where we are searching for
Speaker 5: such objects. And I'm about to go to an expedition
Speaker 5: to the Pacific Ocean to search for the relics from
Speaker 5: the first interstellar meteor, an object that collided with Earth
Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen, that was four years almost before or
Speaker 5: what was discovered. And the US government confirmed the discovery
Speaker 5: of this object as being of interstellar origin. So with
Speaker 5: my student, we were first to identify this object as
Speaker 5: an interstellar meteor, and the Department of Defense, the US
Speaker 5: Space Command wrote a letter to NASA confirming that. And
Speaker 5: so we are going on an expedition to retrieve the
Speaker 5: fragments left over from this object, and I can talk
Speaker 5: more about it.
Speaker 1: I had underrated how uncommon it is for an object
Speaker 1: coming from outside of our Solar system that like I
Speaker 1: assumed that that's where lots of asteroids or meteoroids are
Speaker 1: you know that that stuff came from.
Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about like how
Speaker 2: in common that is?
Speaker 1: And like what are we seeing these things because of
Speaker 1: better technology? Like would we have been able to see
Speaker 1: a momoa in the nineteen eighties with the technology we
Speaker 1: had at that time.
Speaker 5: No, only over the past decade we had the technologies
Speaker 5: to find such objects. So that explains Fermi's paradox. Who
Speaker 5: are He asked, where is everybody? And the answer is
Speaker 5: you better use a telescope or check your backyard to
Speaker 5: find objects that were sent by an extraterrestrial technological civilization,
Speaker 5: and he simply didn't have good enough telescopes at the time.
Speaker 5: So in two thousand and five, the US Congress tasked
Speaker 5: NASA to find ninety percent of all the objects bigger
Speaker 5: than a football field one hundred and forty meters in
Speaker 5: size that could collide with Earth. These are called near
Speaker 5: Earth objects, and so the pant Stars Observatory was established
Speaker 5: in Hawaii for that purpose to find near Earth objects.
Speaker 5: These are I mean objects The size of a football
Speaker 5: field is roughly the sensitivity of present day telescopes in
Speaker 5: terms of seeing the reflection of sunlight from an object.
Speaker 5: You can have much smaller objects, many more of them,
Speaker 5: but you will notice them because they reflect very little sunlight.
Speaker 5: And so Muama happened to be one of these near
Speaker 5: earth objects. It was flagged by this telescope without them
Speaker 5: knowing where it came from, and then they realized it's
Speaker 5: moving too fast to be bound to the Sun, so
Speaker 5: it must have arrived to the Solar System from outside.
Speaker 5: And that's how it was discovered, completely by a coincidence.
Speaker 5: And the meteor that I mentioned before was found by
Speaker 5: again a set of sensors that the US government put
Speaker 5: in place over the past decades to look for ballistic missiles,
Speaker 5: for objects that might risk national security. And you know,
Speaker 5: every now and then they see a fire ball created
Speaker 5: by a space rock that collides with Earth and burns
Speaker 5: up in the atmosphere as a result of the friction
Speaker 5: with air. And so in twenty fourteen they noticed this object,
Speaker 5: and with my student, we realized that it was moving
Speaker 5: too fast to be bound to the Sun, and the
Speaker 5: US government confirmed that. So it turns out that this object,
Speaker 5: if you do the calculation, was actually made of a material.
Speaker 5: This tougher has material strength larger than all two hundred
Speaker 5: and seventy two other meteors that came from the Solar
Speaker 5: System in the same catalog that NASA compiled over the
Speaker 5: past decade. So not only it's the first object that
Speaker 5: was recognized to come from outside the Solar System, but
Speaker 5: also it was able to maintain its integrity down to
Speaker 5: the lower atmosphere of the Earth. And so that's the
Speaker 5: fundamental question, why are these first interstellar objects like this
Speaker 5: meteor orma so unusual, so unfamili and Omoa was flat,
Speaker 5: was pushed away from the Sun by some unusual force
Speaker 5: without evaporating. And you know, three years after m was discovered,
Speaker 5: the same telescope in Hawaii found another object and this
Speaker 5: one was pushed away by reflecting sunlight. It was very thin.
Speaker 5: It was given the name twenty twenty s oh. There
Speaker 5: was no evaporation observed, and then a few weeks later
Speaker 5: the scientists realized, oh, twenty twenty s oh, this object
Speaker 5: actually is a rocket booster that NASA launched in nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty six. They could trace back the orbit and figure
Speaker 5: out that it came from Earth. So we know that
Speaker 5: twenty twenty so so is artificial because we made it.
Speaker 5: The question is who made o I suggested that it
Speaker 5: was also pushed away from the sun by reflecting sunlight
Speaker 5: because it had very thin walls.
Speaker 2: Interesting, I mean a blind spy.
Speaker 1: The toy stuck out to me in terms of like
Speaker 1: how we conceive of the search for intelligent life and
Speaker 1: like what first contact would actually be like is just
Speaker 1: the time horizon of Like it's one of the first
Speaker 1: things we learned in school is that, you know, humanity's
Speaker 1: time on this planet has been relatively brief, just in
Speaker 1: comparison to like frilled sharks have been here for one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million years, and like the Bible was
Speaker 1: written a few thousand years ago, So we're just a
Speaker 1: blank like a you know, a tenth of a percentage
Speaker 1: point of that time, like when you're just stepping outside
Speaker 1: of our species and then you step off the planet
Speaker 1: and it expands again. And I've heard you say there
Speaker 1: are lots of stars with good candidates for you know,
Speaker 1: like Goldilocks planets or planets that might sustain life that
Speaker 1: are much older than our star. So we're conceivably just
Speaker 1: starting out compared to other intelligent life. We're like extremely
Speaker 1: young for our planet. Our planet is extremely young for
Speaker 1: potential life sustaining planets. We're just the blink in a
Speaker 1: time spectrum that itself is a blank. So for me
Speaker 1: it was important context, right, because it makes me wonder
Speaker 1: if first encounter we have might be with a species,
Speaker 1: like a piece of technology, or like something that is,
Speaker 1: you know, more of an archaeological find than you know,
Speaker 1: aliens stepping off of a spaceship and asking to be
Speaker 1: taken to our leader.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So yeah, there are two aspects. One is indeed time,
Speaker 5: and the second is space. Space is huge, and the
Speaker 5: situation is similar to an ant that the survey is
Speaker 5: the head of a pin and wants to make a
Speaker 5: statement about the most distant planet in the Solar System.
Speaker 5: This is a very presumptuous end. That's my point. In
Speaker 5: terms of space. Now, in terms of time, well, let's
Speaker 5: just go in logarithmic steps.
Speaker 4: You know, the.
Speaker 5: Appearance of humans, which were a factor of almost ten
Speaker 5: thousand times more recent than the big band. You know,
Speaker 5: they represent just the end of the cosmic play. And
Speaker 5: you know, we know that we are not at the
Speaker 5: center of the universe. We know that we came to
Speaker 5: the cosmic play just at the end. And if you
Speaker 5: come to a play at the end, then you are
Speaker 5: not at the center of stage. The play is not about.
Speaker 4: Q, right.
Speaker 2: It feels like that's kind of the tension that kind
Speaker 2: of exists when even discussing things like UAPs or the
Speaker 2: existence of UFOs and things I feel like, for me,
Speaker 2: I'm infinitely interested in space and the idea that like,
Speaker 2: surely this we can't be the only people here, just
Speaker 2: based off of like the probability. But then you go
Speaker 2: a step further, and like when it's discussed in more
Speaker 2: formal arenas or even scientific places, there's like you start
Speaker 2: getting accusations about people like saying, oh, like this this
Speaker 2: is for this reason. This isn't because someone is actually
Speaker 2: interested in the observable science, or there are people who
Speaker 2: are just reluctant because I think, to your point, there's
Speaker 2: this idea that how could we as human beings not
Speaker 2: be the like is this not the apex of living
Speaker 2: intelligence everywhere? And what do you think is that? Like
Speaker 2: is that like sort of the biggest hurdle in terms
Speaker 2: of like really studying or discussing these things, is it
Speaker 2: doesn't all sort of relate back to our own sort
Speaker 2: of sense of self importance. Because yeah, I mean, like
Speaker 2: to you're point, we started off thinking like, yeah, everything
Speaker 2: revolves around us, like very early on is where we
Speaker 2: get and they're like, okay, maybe not. And we're beginning
Speaker 2: to shed those assumptions more and more.
Speaker 1: Like even Fermi's paradoxes, like you know, there should be
Speaker 1: so many life sustaining planets. Where is everyone? And it's like,
Speaker 1: why aren't they talking to us? What's their fucking problem?
Speaker 1: Do they think they're better than us? It's like maybe
Speaker 1: they're just not interested because we're you know, I've always
Speaker 1: thought that was kind of a fun one.
Speaker 5: The point is that the common sense is not common
Speaker 5: and what I mean by common sense is that we
Speaker 5: should not have an opinion. We're talking about the reality
Speaker 5: that we live in, and it's not a matter of
Speaker 5: having an opinion. Whether we have a neighbor in our
Speaker 5: cosmic street, and whether the neighbor is this or that
Speaker 5: relative to us. That's not a matter of opinion. We
Speaker 5: of course can have long conversations about our opinions, but
Speaker 5: a better approach is to look for evidence. We just
Speaker 5: need to step outside to our backyard and see if
Speaker 5: there are any tennis balls or other objects that came
Speaker 5: from the cosmic street. That's an easy thing to do.
Speaker 5: We have the instruments for that. And you know, in
Speaker 5: terms of waiting for a phone call from a neighbor
Speaker 5: at home listening for radio signals just because we are
Speaker 5: transmitting radio signals, instead of doing that, we better check
Speaker 5: our mailbox whether there are any packages that arrive there,
Speaker 5: because the center may not be alive. Waiting for a
Speaker 5: phone call is really not a valid approach if those
Speaker 5: civilizations are dead by now, most of them.
Speaker 1: We've been a lot on the show about UAPs, like
Speaker 1: Seen Closer to the Planet, you know, there was that
Speaker 1: that's become more of a journalistic mainstream, if not a
Speaker 1: scientific mainstream.
Speaker 2: But you know, sixty Minutes.
Speaker 1: Had the story about the nimic sighting off of the
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier. And I think you've mentioned these UAPs in
Speaker 1: the context of you know, this new NASA panel that
Speaker 1: is going to be looking to try and explain what
Speaker 1: these metallic orbs are and the Galileo project trying to
Speaker 1: kind of eliminator or like offer explanent scientific explanations for
Speaker 1: what these things are. But can you just talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about how you encounter these intellectually like these
Speaker 1: UAP sightings that are more like I think I read
Speaker 1: that you had a pilot on who had a photograph
Speaker 1: of like a cigar shaped thing that was spotted over Spain.
Speaker 1: And but it's not something that you can take into
Speaker 1: a lab or you know, you know, get data on.
Speaker 1: So just how do you think about that as you're
Speaker 1: having these parallel inquiries into Amama and the other meteorites.
Speaker 5: Well, and the meteor that I mentioned at the beginning.
Speaker 5: They were observed by scientists by scientific instruments that are
Speaker 5: monitoring the sky, and the data is of high quality.
Speaker 5: It's believable. It was published in peer reviews reviewed journals.
Speaker 5: This is the way science is done. If you look
Speaker 5: at the UAP reports, they are all based on anecdotal
Speaker 5: evidence where people by chance found some evidence for things
Speaker 5: that were not expected. And that's very different because first
Speaker 5: of all, they were using instruments that are not calibrated,
Speaker 5: are not under control. We cannot tell exactly you whether
Speaker 5: it was perhaps the malfunction of the instruments, perhaps these
Speaker 5: were optical illusions. Perhaps you know, the distance was not
Speaker 5: assessed correctly, so an object moving close to you can
Speaker 5: appear to be moving very fast if you are thinking
Speaker 5: that it's far away. And so that's the problem with
Speaker 5: past data that you can't really verify it. You can't
Speaker 5: go back to these events and the examine the circumstances
Speaker 5: and try to get better data. And what the Galileo
Speaker 5: project is doing. This project aims to assemble new observatories
Speaker 5: that monitor the entire sky twenty four to seven with infrared, optical, radio,
Speaker 5: and audio sensors. And then we analyze the data using
Speaker 5: artificial intelligence software to classify objects, to distinguish between natural
Speaker 5: objects like birds, from human made objects like drones, wounds, airplanes,
Speaker 5: and see if there is anything else. And this is
Speaker 5: the first systematic, not an ecdotal study of objects in
Speaker 5: the sky, and that's extremely important because by monitoring the
Speaker 5: sky continuously you can tell how rare are anomalous subjects,
Speaker 5: how anomalous they are, and because you understand your instruments,
Speaker 5: you can figure out their properties very well.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we do have to let you go, but
Speaker 1: I just want to get you to promise me here
Speaker 1: that if you do find the evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence,
Speaker 1: that you come on this podcast and break that news here.
Speaker 2: Could I just get that real quick from you. This
Speaker 2: is the place to do it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: Last in my last class at Harvard, I asked the students,
Speaker 5: if you were to find the gudget, let's say, in
Speaker 5: the expedition to the Pacific Ocean, and it has buttons
Speaker 5: on it, would you press the button?
Speaker 2: Hell? Yeah? Final answer, Oh yeah, yes, yes, how many?
Speaker 2: How many? But like Simon, so half.
Speaker 5: Of the students said no, because we are worried about
Speaker 5: what will happen to our body, to humanity. And so
Speaker 5: half of the students said yes, we are curious, we
Speaker 5: would like to know what will happen. And then one
Speaker 5: of the students asked me what I would do, and
Speaker 5: I said, well, you know, I would treat it like
Speaker 5: an intelligent animal that suffered the trauma. And I have
Speaker 5: to bring it to the laboratory to examine it before
Speaker 5: I engage with it physically.
Speaker 2: So bring it up. Yeah, yeah, if you want to
Speaker 2: press about its about on the show.
Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be huge for our numbers.
Speaker 2: Probably recovered artifact to this show about the press the button? Everybody.
Speaker 2: Then a black hole appears. Well, this is a.
Speaker 1: Really interesting conversation. We really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're We're looking forward to seeing how things go on
Speaker 1: the Pacific. Good luck, Thank you so much. And then
Speaker 1: I will keep a diary on medium dot com. If
Speaker 1: you just want to follow what happens there, look for
Speaker 1: search for A V. Lowe A V I l o
Speaker 1: E B at the medium dot com and you will
Speaker 1: find my diary reporting back.
Speaker 4: What do we find over there?
Speaker 2: Great?
Speaker 1: All right, well, good luck, god speed, Thanks for doing
Speaker 1: the show. We appreciate you, my pleasure.
Speaker 2: And that was our interview with av Lobe. Miles.
Speaker 1: What a first crack at these special, weirdly formatted episodes. Again,
Speaker 1: can't thank the super producers of this podcast enough for
Speaker 1: helping us try some new things out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and please keep hitting us up with just anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, like even if you have an interesting job,
Speaker 2: like we're hearing all kinds of like celebrity animal wrangler.
Speaker 2: This is wild, the kinds of things that we're hearing.
Speaker 2: The phonies are lighting up, Miles, Yes, the proverbial phones
Speaker 2: are blving up right now. But yeah, again, I think
Speaker 2: it's it's so interesting just to hear from people doing
Speaker 2: the ship that they do then just you know, screaming
Speaker 2: into the void all the time. So please join us
Speaker 2: on this journey. Yeah, we have a lot of a
Speaker 2: professional void screamer. I'd love to hear about that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: absolutely sounds like Miles. Where can people find you? Follow you?
Speaker 2: Oh well, you can find me follow me all at
Speaker 2: based life form symbol what I'm What am I trying
Speaker 2: to say? At bay At Based? Find me on Twitter
Speaker 2: and Instagram at Miles of Gray. Okay, and I'm also
Speaker 2: on PlayStation Network Miles of Gray. If you've seen me
Speaker 2: on there, try and you know, step to me on
Speaker 2: FIFA or maybe we can team up on Red Dead
Speaker 2: Revolver Redemption because I really want to do that again.
Speaker 2: Also find Jack and I on our basketball podcast and
Speaker 2: Miles and Jack good mat booties and man I shout
Speaker 2: out the Heat. Shout out the Heat. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: so look at look at spo oh making adjustments? What's
Speaker 2: that like? Darknhead? So good? And what else? Find Sophia,
Speaker 2: Alexander and I on four to twenty Day Fiance, which
Speaker 2: will be back up just better than ever this week,
Speaker 2: along with the new season of ninety that just premiered
Speaker 2: on Sunday Amazing. Is there a work Amedia you've been
Speaker 2: enjoying Honestly, the works of social media I'm enjoying are
Speaker 2: all the people that have tagged me or at DMed
Speaker 2: me or added me with their super interesting lives. And
Speaker 2: as much as I'm like, yeah, I guys should to
Speaker 2: talk about on a podcast, I'm like, this is fucking great.
Speaker 2: So yeah, please please keep talking to us, Please interact
Speaker 2: with us, because we love hearing from you. That is
Speaker 2: what I'm working with on social media.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian
Speaker 1: and a tweet I've been enjoying is just somebody tweeted
Speaker 1: two videos of owls and said, there are two types
Speaker 1: of owls, and owl's apparently run very funny or walk
Speaker 1: around very funny. They like walk like they are cartoon
Speaker 1: characters trying to sneak around. And then in another video
Speaker 1: and now like literally like kramers into frame, like does
Speaker 1: the like run slide in?
Speaker 2: Owls are cool.
Speaker 1: That's that's the media I've been enjoying, the simple, good
Speaker 1: old fashioned media of owls.
Speaker 2: It's uh, id they get their eyes that have you
Speaker 2: seen them without feathers. It's it's kind of like it's
Speaker 2: probably seeing James Harden without the beer. Yeah, it's scary,
Speaker 2: it's like a little bit cool.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: The person who posts is why you should have an
Speaker 1: animalle On Twitter. You can find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: daily Zeikeeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram. We
Speaker 1: have a Facebook vampage and a website Daily zekeist dot com.
Speaker 1: Worry post our episodes on our footnote. We link off
Speaker 1: to the information that we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: as well as a.
Speaker 2: Song that we think you might enjoy. Myles, is there
Speaker 2: a song that we think people might And yes, this
Speaker 2: is a There was a cover of Do for Love
Speaker 2: for Love, but it's by snow Allegra. But then this
Speaker 2: is the remix by Black Coffee. So this is the
Speaker 2: Black Coffee remix of Do number four Love with snow
Speaker 2: a leg ground vocals. So check this on. That's very
Speaker 2: I love I just love that song and that melody
Speaker 2: is just so I don't know, like the first time
Speaker 2: I actually heard it was when Tupac sampled it when
Speaker 2: I was like an adolescent, and then ever since then
Speaker 2: I got into like the real version and every other cover.
Speaker 2: So this is like a great like darker sort of
Speaker 2: ambient cover that's really dope. So check this out. Do
Speaker 2: for Love the Black Coffee Remix.
Speaker 1: Amazing and we will link after that in the footnotes
Speaker 1: to Daily Zeitke is the production by Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for us this morning,
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and
Speaker 1: we will touch to you all then bye bye