WEBVTT - #430 Maggie Freleng with Lorinda Swain

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<v Speaker 1>A warning for listeners, this episode contains discussion of child's

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<v Speaker 1>sexual abuse. Please listen with caution and care. In the

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<v Speaker 1>summer of two thousand and one, Lreinda Swain was a

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<v Speaker 1>forty year old single mother of two living in Union City, Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>She had just completed a three month jail term for

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<v Speaker 1>a drug charge and was back home on parole. Larinda

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<v Speaker 1>was looking forward to seeing her boys, Ronnie and Cody,

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<v Speaker 1>who had been living with their father while she was

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<v Speaker 1>in jail. She'd been trying to reach her ex husband

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<v Speaker 1>to arrange it, but he hadn't returned any of her calls.

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<v Speaker 1>Larinda was relaxing in the bathtub at her parents' farmhouse

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<v Speaker 1>when there was a knock at the door.

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<v Speaker 2>And so my dad tells that the police are there.

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<v Speaker 2>I figured the cops was here there, and they're likes

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<v Speaker 2>trying to say I threatened them about having visitation, But.

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<v Speaker 1>It was much more serious than that.

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<v Speaker 2>When I tell people that I was sentenced twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>to fifty years, they automatically assumed that I was accused

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<v Speaker 2>of murder, and I always tell them, no, I was

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<v Speaker 2>accused of worse than that.

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<v Speaker 1>From love of for good, This is wrongful conviction with

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<v Speaker 1>Maggie Freeling today Larenda Swain. Lorenda Swain was born in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty in Hamilton, Ohio. The family later moved to Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>She was the middle child of six.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always heard that that's a bad place to be,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, But to be honest, my siblings, if you

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<v Speaker 2>had to ask every one of them who they're the

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<v Speaker 2>closest to, it would probably be me. So I like

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<v Speaker 2>to be in the middle child. I had the very

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<v Speaker 2>loving parents, George and Fay. They've been married sixty eight years.

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<v Speaker 2>My dad was a two on die maker. My mother

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<v Speaker 2>was like a homemaker till we were all in school, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Then she got a job so that we could buy

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<v Speaker 3>a farm.

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<v Speaker 1>Laarinda admits that as a child she had some unusual hobbies.

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<v Speaker 2>I was the cleaner out of the family. I had

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<v Speaker 2>to cook and clean, and when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>I would like, you know, stay up all night and

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<v Speaker 2>clean the silver drawers.

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<v Speaker 1>But she also enjoyed more typical kid things well.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a good childhood. I liked sports. We camped

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<v Speaker 2>and fished. My mom always took us to Saltaban and

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<v Speaker 2>we'd get cherries.

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<v Speaker 3>And ice cream on the way a lot of my

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<v Speaker 3>life felt very lucky to be me.

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<v Speaker 1>When she was a teenager, the family moved to a

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<v Speaker 1>farm in Burlington, about forty miles away. Before long, Larinda

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<v Speaker 1>fell for someone and they started a serious relationship. She

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<v Speaker 1>was seventeen, he was twenty seven. They moved in together

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<v Speaker 1>a year later.

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<v Speaker 2>Living together back then was like a big deal and

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<v Speaker 2>my parents were like, you know, we'll design you. And

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<v Speaker 2>the next week they were like at my house and

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<v Speaker 2>loved my husband. And I lived there like maybe two

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<v Speaker 2>years before we got married. And then I was married

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<v Speaker 2>to him for seven years.

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<v Speaker 1>But that marriage didn't work out, and at twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>Lorenda found herself in transition, about to be divorced, living

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<v Speaker 1>in Union City, Michigan, and working at a local Italian restaurant.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is where she met Ronald Swain.

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<v Speaker 2>I slipped on a piece of ice cleaning up the

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<v Speaker 2>salad bar Italian pasta bar, and ron you know, came

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<v Speaker 2>to rescue me and I met him, And to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>I you know, like I said, I was getting a

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<v Speaker 2>divorce from my first marriage, and I ended up having

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<v Speaker 2>to worry if.

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<v Speaker 3>My divorce was going to be final before we got married.

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<v Speaker 1>Ron was sixteen years older than Lorenda, and as she

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<v Speaker 1>describes him, he was handsome enough to be a movie star.

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<v Speaker 1>He already had a daughter and just says he was

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<v Speaker 1>a good dad. She looked forward to starting a family

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<v Speaker 1>with him.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to love kids more than anybody in the

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<v Speaker 2>entire world. I'm talking nieces and nephews. Prior to having

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<v Speaker 2>my own children. We tried twice to have a test

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<v Speaker 2>two baby and it didn't work. So we ended up

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<v Speaker 2>getting into foster care and adopting.

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<v Speaker 1>They adopted two boys, Ronnie and Cody Joe, who were

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen months apart.

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<v Speaker 2>They brought me a lot of joy, they did. I

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<v Speaker 2>loved them and I was so happy being a mom.

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<v Speaker 2>I was so I spoiled them. They brought me so

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<v Speaker 2>much joy.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, she was the Ulliman mother.

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<v Speaker 1>This is George Johnson, Lorenda's father.

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<v Speaker 4>She loved them, ever loved her child.

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<v Speaker 5>But she couldn't have children, and so where she got

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<v Speaker 5>to adopt these two bull boys.

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<v Speaker 4>It was like a guest from God, you know, worship

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<v Speaker 4>them boys.

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<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately ron didn't feel the same about the children.

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<v Speaker 3>Lorenda says, they didn't make him happy.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, so you know, the marriage didn't work out,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think they were like five and six, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>four and five. When we got divorced. I had the

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<v Speaker 2>custody and he hardly visited. You know, he got to

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<v Speaker 2>claim him for taxes as long as he was current

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<v Speaker 2>on support, and he didn't even come and visit home,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, is.

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<v Speaker 4>This her the two boys as their family now?

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<v Speaker 5>She really pleased that she was the mother and the

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<v Speaker 5>father and they wasn't going to be short changed in

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<v Speaker 5>any way.

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<v Speaker 1>But still being a single parent wasn't easy. Lorenda says,

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<v Speaker 1>before long, things in her life started to go downhill.

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<v Speaker 1>She found a new boyfriend who turned out to be violent,

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<v Speaker 1>and he introduced her to hard drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what I'm guilty of, is that I made

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<v Speaker 2>a bad choice.

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<v Speaker 3>I did use crack.

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<v Speaker 2>I did I was depressed, and you know, maybe that's

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<v Speaker 2>just an excuse whatever. I never even knew what it

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<v Speaker 2>was and sure didn't plan it, and it's one of

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<v Speaker 2>my deepest regrets, but it's you know, I can't change it.

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<v Speaker 1>After she got out of that relationship, Lorenda got back

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<v Speaker 1>on her feet. Her living situation got more stable, and

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<v Speaker 1>she began to feel like she and the boys were

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<v Speaker 1>doing okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I was living with a boyfriend that I did treework

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<v Speaker 2>for in my parents one of their rental properties. They

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<v Speaker 2>had more than one, and I would move there and

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<v Speaker 2>I would like fix it up, landscape, clean the yard,

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<v Speaker 2>clean the house. That great, and then they would get

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<v Speaker 2>me to move to another. We'll get Larna to move

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<v Speaker 2>there because she'll fix it up.

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<v Speaker 1>But then Lorenda made another bad choice. She stole one

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<v Speaker 1>of her parents' credit cards and used it to score drugs.

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<v Speaker 4>She got it, maxed it out, maxed it out overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>My parents didn't prosecute, but I got probation. I had

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<v Speaker 2>no criminal history prior to this.

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<v Speaker 1>Lorenda wasn't incarcerated, but she was on parole and she

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't kick old habits.

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<v Speaker 2>I did go back out news and my dad loved

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<v Speaker 2>me and was so worried.

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<v Speaker 3>About me that he turned me in.

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<v Speaker 2>He wanted me to go to jail because he was

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<v Speaker 2>afraid if I didn't that I was going to get killed.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, doing drugs.

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<v Speaker 5>Well that was really the We got to do something,

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<v Speaker 5>and you steal from your parents, that's about as low

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<v Speaker 5>as you can get, you know. And we worked with

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<v Speaker 5>her all along, but at that point, somebody else had

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<v Speaker 5>to help her.

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<v Speaker 4>I wasn't able to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Lorendo was sent to prison on the drug violation for

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<v Speaker 1>ninety days, and while she was there, Ronnie and Cody

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<v Speaker 1>were in the custody of their dad and his new

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<v Speaker 1>wife Lynn. When Lorendo was released in August of two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and one, she was still on probation and had

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<v Speaker 1>to wear an ankle monitor. She wasted no time trying

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<v Speaker 1>to contact ron to see her children.

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<v Speaker 2>And my husband wouldn't answer the phone or whatever, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just told that, Hey, if you don't get a

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<v Speaker 2>hold of me by Friday, you'll be in contempt at court.

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<v Speaker 1>A couple of days later, Lorinda was at her parents' farm.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually in the bathtub with my leg up on

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<v Speaker 2>the side of the tub with a plastic bag around

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<v Speaker 2>it because back then you couldn't get the tethers wet.

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<v Speaker 2>And so my dad tells that the police are there.

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<v Speaker 2>I figured the cops w was be there, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>like trying to say I threatened them about having visitation, but.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't about the visitation at all. The police were

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<v Speaker 1>there to take Lorenda in. She had been accused of

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<v Speaker 1>committing an unimaginable crime, and.

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<v Speaker 6>So can you walk us through what happened in this case?

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<v Speaker 6>Not necessarily the prosecution theory, but what happened.

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<v Speaker 7>Ronnie, who was the older son, who by this point

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<v Speaker 7>was about fourteen years old, was caught by his stepmother

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<v Speaker 7>committing sexual misconduct with a relative.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Dave Moran. He's the co director and co

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<v Speaker 1>founder of the Michigan Innocence Clinic at the University of

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<v Speaker 1>Michigan Law School.

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<v Speaker 7>And the stepmother apparently suggested to Ronnie that he must

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<v Speaker 7>have learned that from someone else, and Ronnie then implicated

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<v Speaker 7>Lorenda and claimed that Lorenda had performed oral sex on him.

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<v Speaker 1>According to the allegations, this had all happened years before,

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<v Speaker 1>when Ronnie was about seven.

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<v Speaker 7>Many many times, in fact, every day before catching the

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<v Speaker 7>school bus. According to Ronnie, Lorenda pulled down his pants

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<v Speaker 7>and performed oral sex on him.

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<v Speaker 2>Ronnie was the most honest kid. So when they first

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<v Speaker 2>accused me of it down at the jail halls, after

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<v Speaker 2>they've picked me up at my parents' firm, I told

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<v Speaker 2>the guy, I don't believe Ronnie said that. He said

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<v Speaker 2>I witnessed Ronnie said, I said, well, then he's a

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<v Speaker 2>goddamn liar, because I said, I never dreamed of doing that.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, I know she didn't do it. I know she

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<v Speaker 4>didn't do it the way she loved them Rayne don't

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<v Speaker 4>Wayne Hill, and she harmed up boys like something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But based on Ronnie's allegation alone, Lorenda was arrested and

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<v Speaker 1>charged with sexually molesting her oldest son. The trial was

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<v Speaker 1>scheduled for the following August, and then soon after his

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<v Speaker 1>mother was arrested, Ronnie confessed that the story was a lie.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be the first of many times that he

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<v Speaker 1>tried to recant.

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<v Speaker 2>The first time he recranted, my dad and my sister

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<v Speaker 2>and my nephew went with a.

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<v Speaker 3>Tape recorder thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And asked if they, you know, he would talk to him,

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<v Speaker 2>and he agreed to you know.

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<v Speaker 4>I asked him, what on earth did you? You know? What?

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<v Speaker 4>What's sadil? And me it wasn't true.

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<v Speaker 2>Then they called the other grandma, his birth grandma, and

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<v Speaker 2>he admitted to her that I didn't do it, And

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<v Speaker 2>he admitted to my parents that I didn't do it,

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<v Speaker 2>and my dad had it on tape.

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<v Speaker 1>But those tapes were never introduced at trial by Lorenda's defense.

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<v Speaker 2>My lawyer just counted on Ronnie telling the truth, and

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<v Speaker 2>that was when I realized at the trial, I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to be found guilty.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. You can

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<v Speaker 1>listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava

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<v Speaker 1>for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Lorenda's trial began in

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<v Speaker 1>August of two thousand and two in Calhoun County, Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>The primary witnesses for the prosecution were Ronnie, who was

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<v Speaker 1>now fifteen, and his younger brother, Cody, who was fourteen.

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<v Speaker 7>Cody didn't implicate her directly in any kind of sexual misconduct,

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<v Speaker 7>but just kind of backed up that she supposedly had

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<v Speaker 7>behaved inappropriately. Then you had the stepmother testifying about what

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<v Speaker 7>Ronnie had told her, and that was pretty much. Yet

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<v Speaker 7>the prosecution didn't really have any other substantial witnesses.

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<v Speaker 1>The story worry that the jury heard from Ronnie and

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<v Speaker 1>Cody at trial went like this.

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<v Speaker 7>The allegations were quite specific, namely that for this period

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<v Speaker 7>of several years, Lorenda would get the boys up and

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<v Speaker 7>get them ready for school, and then she would send

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<v Speaker 7>the younger son, Cody out to wait for the school bus,

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<v Speaker 7>and then she would molest Ronnie, and then Cody would

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<v Speaker 7>come running down the driveway to alert everybody that the

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<v Speaker 7>school bus was coming. And then Lorenda would pull up

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.120
<v Speaker 7>Ronnie's pants and send them out there to join Cody

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.280
<v Speaker 7>and catch the bus.

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 3>No kid ever waited out there alone.

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.800
<v Speaker 2>They usually were watching cartoons, eating fruit roll ups, and

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 2>when I see the bus coming, I'd had to hurry

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and get them to go run out to the end

0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>of the driveway. You know what I'm saying. No one

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 2>kid ever sat out there by himself.

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 7>And so Lorenda at her trial, she didn't have a

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 7>very good lawyer, but she tried to assert the defenses herself,

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 7>and so at one point while she was testifying, she

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 7>blurted out, the story is not true, asked the neighbor

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 7>boy and the school bus driver.

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>My lawyer should stop the trial right then, and said, look,

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.679
<v Speaker 2>we need to get the bus driver in. The little

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 2>neighbor boy so he was telling the truth here, but

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 2>he didn't do that.

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Instead, Lorenda's attorney was counting on Ronnie to tell the

0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 1>truth on the stand, but that didn't happen either.

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 7>Ronnie recanted before trial, and in fact, he recanted at trial,

0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 7>and then he had a private conversation with a prosecutor.

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 7>Then he came back in and unrecanted.

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 2>My lawyer said to Ronnie three times, don't you want

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 2>to tell the truth here today? The third time Ronnie

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 2>started crying, the judge stopped the trial ordered everybody out

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of the courtroom. I knew he was crying because he

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>knew I had never dreamed of doing anything like that.

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 2>But I realized to the twelve strangers, they think he's

0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 2>crying because they guy really did do this.

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.800
<v Speaker 1>On August twentieth, two thousand and two, the jury found

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Lorenda guilty on all four counts of first degree criminal

0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 1>sexual conduct. She was sentenced to twenty five to fifty

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 1>years in prison.

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 2>When I was first found guilty of a crime I

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 2>never dreamed of doing.

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 3>I was sure.

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 2>I was so naive to think that when they realized

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't do it, they'll tear the doors down,

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 2>you know. Eventually, I knew they knew they had made

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 2>a mistake, but they'd sooner appeal or fight it and

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.000
<v Speaker 2>not care if my family and my life is wrecked.

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.640
<v Speaker 2>To this day, I can't believe it was real. The

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 2>whole while I was in there. I knew it was real,

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 2>but I couldn't believe it was real at the same time.

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've done some wrong in my day, I

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>really have, but I sure didn't do this.

0:15:58.800 --> 0:15:58.880
<v Speaker 7>Well.

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 3>I said a lot in my life, I felt really

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 3>lucky to be me.

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 2>But when I was in a jail cell on my

0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>forty first birthday, accused of when I was accused of,

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I felt like the most unlucky person in the.

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 3>Entire world for a very long time.

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, when I tell people that I was sentenced

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty five to fifty years, they automatically.

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 3>Assumed that I was accused.

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Of murder, and I always tell him, no, I was

0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 2>accused of worse than that. You know, I would have

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>rather been accused of killing my mom and dad than

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.720
<v Speaker 2>to be accused of molesting your adopted son.

0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:05.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, Laurinda knew that because of the nature of

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the crime she was charged with, she was going to

0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>have a tough time of it in prison.

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 3>People were cruel.

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.439
<v Speaker 2>To some people, and a lot of times it was

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 2>like sexual assault people. You know, I had a couple

0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 2>different confrontations where one girl did say to me, you

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 2>sucked your kid's dick the size of my pinky and

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 2>put her pinky up and said that in my face.

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.080
<v Speaker 2>The thought was in my head to pick the pan

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:42.200
<v Speaker 2>up and beat her fricking brains out. But God also

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.479
<v Speaker 2>put the thought in my head. Sticks and stones can

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.719
<v Speaker 2>break your bones, but names can never harm you unless

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 2>you hurt that girl.

0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you what I drink. I smoke pot.

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.239
<v Speaker 2>I swear. I certainly am not a saint, but I

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 2>love God. I know he's real. I'm sorry, I'm the sinner.

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I talked to him all the time, and when I

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 2>was in prison, I was talking to him and I

0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 2>was even swearing at him, telling them the Bible is

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.719
<v Speaker 2>a damn Lie says, you don't put more on us

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>and we can bear, and this is way more than

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:15.120
<v Speaker 2>I can bear.

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 1>The Innocence Clinic at the University of Michigan opened its

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.920
<v Speaker 1>doors in January of two thousand and nine. Dave remembers

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.119
<v Speaker 1>that Lorenda's was one of the first cases they took on.

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 7>We took it within the first few months of the

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.959
<v Speaker 7>clinic being open because it came to us recommended by

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 7>Bill Procter, who was an investigative journalist and then later

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 7>private investigator that we knew and trusted, and we heard

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 7>from Brad Edwards, another investigative journalist who'd done a story

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 7>on Lorenda's case, and so after meeting Lorenda in prison,

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 7>we very quickly decided to take on the case.

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 6>Well, so how did you disprove it? Because that's the

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.440
<v Speaker 6>like what it was. It was ninety six and ninety

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 6>four he said his mom was molesting him, and now

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, we're years later.

0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:12.159
<v Speaker 7>So how did you Well, because we talked to Ronnie

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.480
<v Speaker 7>pretty early on and Cody both and they were both

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:20.480
<v Speaker 7>firm that this did not happen. That Ronnie and Cody

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.359
<v Speaker 7>had been manipulated by the stepmother into making these charges

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.719
<v Speaker 7>against Lorenda, And so that made us think that this

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.120
<v Speaker 7>was a wrongful conviction. But we knew that Ronnie and

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 7>Cody alone couldn't do it because they had already recanted.

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 7>So that wasn't going to be new evidence. We had

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 7>to find new evidence, and the most obvious place to

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 7>look was what Lorendo had shout out at trial. The

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.639
<v Speaker 7>they were kid and the school bus driver. The jury

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.560
<v Speaker 7>never heard from them, What about that neighbor boy, what

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.440
<v Speaker 7>about that school bus driver, and we found them, and

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.920
<v Speaker 7>the neighbor boy agreed that the Swain brothers came out

0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.840
<v Speaker 7>every morning together and waited with him for the school bus.

0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 7>And then we actually found the school bus driver, and

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.439
<v Speaker 7>she had an amazing memory of the routes that she

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.840
<v Speaker 7>drove and who she picked up at each point.

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 1>At a post conviction hearing before Judge Conrad, since both

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the neighbor and the bus driver were called as witnesses,

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.479
<v Speaker 1>the bus driver testified that she saw the Swain brothers

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.639
<v Speaker 1>waiting at the stop together every day along with the

0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.000
<v Speaker 1>neighbor boy. She never saw Cody running to get his

0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:30.159
<v Speaker 1>brother from the house.

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 7>The prosecutor got up, you know, just dripping with sarcasm, like,

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 7>oh yeah, sure, after all these years. You know, by

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 7>this point we're close to twenty years or fifteen, twenty years,

0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.159
<v Speaker 7>and so so the prosecutor just fell right into the

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.440
<v Speaker 7>trap and he said, all right, so you know, who

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.439
<v Speaker 7>did you pick up the stop before the Swains? And

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.239
<v Speaker 7>she named like two or three kids, and all right,

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 7>what about what about the stop before that? She named

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 7>two or three more kids. Well what about to stop

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 7>after the swing kids? And she named the kids she

0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 7>picked up there and you could just tell the judge

0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 7>was utterly convinced by this veteran school bus driver with

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.879
<v Speaker 7>the photographic memory.

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:10.240
<v Speaker 1>And in their investigation, Dave's team had uncovered another witness,

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Dennis Book, who was Larinda's living boyfriend at the time

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:15.879
<v Speaker 1>of the alleged abuse.

0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.119
<v Speaker 7>And he provided utterly crucial testimony because he was there

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.360
<v Speaker 7>when the boys would catch the bus, because he would

0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.959
<v Speaker 7>leave after that to go to work, and so he

0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.640
<v Speaker 7>could affirm that this absolutely didn't happen. And what made

0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.120
<v Speaker 7>him such a great witness was that he absolutely hated Larinda.

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 7>They had a terrible breakup. But even more crucially what

0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.920
<v Speaker 7>he revealed is that he had been contacted by Detective Picket,

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.359
<v Speaker 7>who was the officer in charge of the case against Larinda,

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 7>and he had told Detective Picket and know uncertain terms,

0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.200
<v Speaker 7>you know, I detest that woman, but this absolutely didn't happen,

0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 7>and if it had happened, I would have turned her

0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 7>in myself.

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Knowing how much Dennis Book hated Larinda, her defense attorney

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>never called him at trial. He was afraid that Dennis's

0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:07.400
<v Speaker 1>testimony would hurt Larinda's case. An officer Pickett never revealed

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 1>to the defense what Dennis Book had told him that

0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Larinda didn't do it.

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 7>And so that became a Brady violation because had the

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 7>defense lawyer known what Dennis Book had told Detective Picket,

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.199
<v Speaker 7>then that would have changed the calculus entirely.

0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 8>What made him want to testify?

0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 7>For you guys, he didn't, especially it took several visits

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 7>with him to persuade him to testify, and then of

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 7>course we did subpoena him, so he actually was under

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.960
<v Speaker 7>legal obligation to show up. So I can imagine the

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 7>person that you've had the worst breakup in your life

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 7>with coming in and saying, basically, you're a terrible person,

0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 7>but you didn't do this. That is a credible witness.

0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.159
<v Speaker 1>In August of two thousand and nine, as a result

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.480
<v Speaker 1>of the new evidence, Judge sent granted Larinda a new

0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.919
<v Speaker 1>trial and she was released on bond.

0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.119
<v Speaker 2>When I was in prison, I watched two sets of Olympics,

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and I used to think the closest thing I'd ever

0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:09.800
<v Speaker 2>feel to what they must feel when they touch that

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 2>pool first or cross that finish line, would be if

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:15.960
<v Speaker 2>my name was cleared and I got justice.

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, it felt good leaving there. August fifth, o nine

0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 3>and I.

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:22.919
<v Speaker 2>Thought, I'm going to know what it feels like to

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.760
<v Speaker 2>be the Olympic athlete in six months to a year.

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.879
<v Speaker 3>For sure, that's what it looked like.

0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.399
<v Speaker 1>But Loreinda's journey wasn't over when she was released on bond.

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 7>And then the case though, lingered for another seven years

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 7>from that point for us trying to, you know, finalize

0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:41.119
<v Speaker 7>the victory, and it kept going up and down the

0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:43.720
<v Speaker 7>appellate chain, and we would lose rounds and then we'd

0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 7>win around, and the prosecution, when we'd lose around would

0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:50.200
<v Speaker 7>move to send her back to prison. So we have

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 7>to go back to the trial judge and try and

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:52.520
<v Speaker 7>keep her out of prison.

0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I had no idea it was going to be seven

0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 2>more years that I'd have to worry that I'm going

0:23:58.320 --> 0:23:59.880
<v Speaker 2>to have to either go back to prison or kill

0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 2>me myself, because I wasn't going back to prison, and

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:04.359
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't going to take off and make my parents

0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 2>lose their thirty thousand dollars they'd put up for bond.

0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.640
<v Speaker 7>And there were some scary moments because Lorenda was very

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 7>dead set about not going back to prison, and so

0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 7>we were very concerned about her health and safety.

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.199
<v Speaker 1>Did she express to you her maybe suicidal idiations that

0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 1>if she was going to go back, that was that

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:23.040
<v Speaker 1>was it.

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 7>Yes, and you know, we would try and talk her

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 7>out of it, but it was a lot of pressure

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 7>on it. And there was one hearing in particular where

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 7>we had just lost around and then the prosecution moved

0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 7>to cancel her bond and tether and send her back

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.320
<v Speaker 7>to prison. And we went to court and there was

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 7>a guy there from the Department of Corrections waiting and

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:42.920
<v Speaker 7>he was he was holding his you know, leg irons

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.320
<v Speaker 7>and waist chain and handcuffs and you know, playing with them, clinking,

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 7>clinking them like the grim Reaper.

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 1>We've heard that Ronnie recant did his allegation many times,

0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.400
<v Speaker 1>and he continued to maintain that Lorenda hadn't done this.

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>But that still leaves the question why did Ronnie make

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:07.879
<v Speaker 1>up this story in the first place. It all started

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 1>when Lorenda was in prison for the drug violation and

0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie and Cody were living with their father and stepmother.

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.640
<v Speaker 1>As it came out later, fourteen year old Ronnie had

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 1>been caught in an act of sexual misconduct with a

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.440
<v Speaker 1>young relative, a three year old girl who was also

0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 1>living in the house.

0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 3>He knew he had done wrong. The little girl told

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 3>on him.

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:32.399
<v Speaker 2>Ronnie first denied it, then he admitted he did it

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and said he was playing game called babies. So they

0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:37.879
<v Speaker 2>took him to the therapist and had him tell the therapists I

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 2>had done this, you know, lots of times, way years ago,

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 2>and that's why he did it.

0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 7>Years later, Ronnie admitted that actually he had learned about

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.240
<v Speaker 7>oral sex from watching some of the movies and magazines

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 7>in his father's porn stash.

0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:59.280
<v Speaker 1>And so how did it come about where they were like, oh,

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.480
<v Speaker 1>we're going to blame little Renda.

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:03.040
<v Speaker 8>It's you know how that happens?

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, because the stepmother told Ronnie, she said, Ronnie,

0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>if this happened to you, you won't go to jail.

0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Your mom will.

0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Get a little bit of time in jail and we'll

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 2>help her with her using her drugs. She'll get six

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:20.560
<v Speaker 2>months in jail, but I got twenty five to fifty

0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>years in jail.

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Allegations of child sexual abuse are taken very seriously by

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:30.200
<v Speaker 1>the courts, But Ronnie had recanted his story multiple times

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 1>to authorities, So why would that not be enough to

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:38.080
<v Speaker 1>overturn the conviction? As Dave explains, when it comes to

0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:41.159
<v Speaker 1>these kinds of cases, it's not always that simple.

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:46.119
<v Speaker 7>Even a recantation from the complainant is likely not to

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:48.960
<v Speaker 7>be enough because there are so many reasons that the

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 7>courts will appoint to. If the prosecutors will point to

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:55.320
<v Speaker 7>as to why somebody might recant a child sexual abuse allegation,

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.199
<v Speaker 7>it's true, for example, because they're under pressure from family members,

0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.960
<v Speaker 7>or because they feel guilty about sending somebody to prison,

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.520
<v Speaker 7>or they think that somebody has been punished enough and

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:07.720
<v Speaker 7>it's time time to bring them home. And so it's

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:11.200
<v Speaker 7>just never enough to have the complainant in a child

0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:14.200
<v Speaker 7>sex abuse case wecan't and in fact it wasn't enough

0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:17.760
<v Speaker 7>in this case. Loreinda had gotten nowhere, even though Ronnie

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 7>had vociferously recanted many times. You have to be able

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 7>to corroborate the recantation. You have to be able to

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 7>show why the claim objectively couldn't be true. And so

0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 7>we were very lucky in this case that we were

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:31.120
<v Speaker 7>able to do.

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:34.560
<v Speaker 8>That, and that was through the bus driver and the

0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:35.440
<v Speaker 8>neighbor boy.

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.000
<v Speaker 7>And the ex boyfriend Dennis book.

0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Over the next seven years, Loreinda was granted a retrial

0:27:52.480 --> 0:28:00.520
<v Speaker 1>multiple times, but Calhoun County prosecutor Susan Maladanov objected each time. Finally,

0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.400
<v Speaker 1>in twenty sixteen, the Michigan Innocence Clinic persuaded the state

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:09.040
<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court to order a new trial for Lareinda, and

0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:13.960
<v Speaker 1>then on May nineteenth, twenty sixteen, the prosecution dropped the charges.

0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:16.240
<v Speaker 1>She was finally free.

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I did end up getting to feel what that athlete

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 2>felt like when they touched that pool. When Dave called

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:29.359
<v Speaker 2>me and told me the Supreme Court decision is back

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:31.679
<v Speaker 2>and you're exonerated.

0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:37.000
<v Speaker 7>That was great. I mean, that was euphoork. A lot

0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:39.560
<v Speaker 7>of pressure on her, a lot of pressure on us

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.000
<v Speaker 7>all those years. But to actually be able to complete

0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 7>the exoneration, have her cut off that tether that she'd

0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 7>been wearing for seven years and be free, it was

0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 7>one of the great moments at the clinic.

0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Larinda is no longer in touch with Ronnie and Cody,

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:05.120
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I.

0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Do forgive them. They didn't ask me to adopt them.

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I did use drugs, you know, I forgive them, but

0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't. I just can't forget with the wrecked mine

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 2>and my parents' life.

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:19.960
<v Speaker 1>In July of twenty seventeen, Loreinda filed a lawsuit against

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Calhoun County seeking damages for her wrongful conviction. The suit

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:28.000
<v Speaker 1>was settled in twenty eighteen, which allowed Lorenda to put

0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>her life back together and finally make a new start.

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I work hard, I rest hard, and I play hard.

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I have a dog that I've had for almost fourteen years.

0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 2>We're little old ladies together.

0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:44.480
<v Speaker 3>I love to.

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Work on my home, in my yard. I have a garden.

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I have the best neighbors. I have a great boyfriend.

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 6>You know.

0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I dance, a shop, I cooked, I cleaned, I want.

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I played tennis, and I'm sixty three, but in my heart,

0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm ten. In my heart, I am ten. And I'm

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 2>so grateful to Almighty God for giving me the strength

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:15.760
<v Speaker 2>to get through it, giving me loving parents and you

0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 2>know you have them, and my prison boss and just

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:22.080
<v Speaker 2>different people that that helped to make a difference. So

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 2>in the end, God showed me that I had more

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:30.560
<v Speaker 2>strength than I ever knew, and I did persevere. I

0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:34.280
<v Speaker 2>did meddle through it, and I met incredible people because

0:30:34.280 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to help support the important work the

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Michigan Innocence Clinic is doing, please check out their link

0:30:48.080 --> 0:31:03.040
<v Speaker 1>in our episode description and thank you. Thank you for

0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:06.440
<v Speaker 1>listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>local innocence organizations and go to the links in the

0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:12.240
<v Speaker 1>episode description to see how you can help. I'd like

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:15.600
<v Speaker 1>to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and

0:31:15.680 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Wortis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Beal, and researcher Shelby Sorels.

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Mixing and sound design are by Jackie Pauley, with additional

0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:32.000
<v Speaker 1>production by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music is

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 1>by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to follow us on all social media platforms at Lava

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 1>for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow

0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

0:31:49.680 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 1>in association with Signal Company Number one