1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: And you're here. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. They invite you to enjoy 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now, 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 3: to Coast am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: Hi. 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 3: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 3: On each episodisode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 3: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. It is 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: a rainy, dreary day where I am and I had 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: set aside today for cleaning the house, but the truth 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 3: is I don't want to, so I thought, I need 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 3: to do something productive, and I thought, let's record another episode. 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 3: You may just remember recently we took a deep dive 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 3: into the incredible work of doctor Pym van Lommel, who 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: was the second prize winner of the Bigelow Institute for 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: Consciousness Studies Essay contest. We talked about the medical proof, 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: the flatlined brains, the DNA antennas, that our loved ones 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: and our consciousness is in the cloud, all leading to 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: the fact that we survive physical death. And then back 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 3: on episode two forty four, we had covered the first 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: prize winner, doctor Jeffrey Mishlove, who gave us historical and 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: evidence through parapsychology for the continuity of life after life. 33 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 3: So today, as I'm avoiding cleaning, I thought, is my 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: fabulous listener just as curious as I am about winner 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 3: number three? So if you don't mind, I really feel 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: like diving right back into the Bigelow Papers and introducing 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 3: you to third prize winner, the man who took home 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for his evidence. His 39 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 3: name is doctor Leo Rugby. This is a different kind 40 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 3: of essay, but it is something that I do think 41 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: will touch the grieving heart, as I know. That's why 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: many come to our show. When we think about the afterlife, 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: the common questions are where are they? Can I still 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 3: communicate with them? We may look up at the sky 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: think of them beyond the clouds, or we imagine them 46 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: and the dimension far far away. It does feel like 47 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: our loved ones are far from us, but Doctor Rugby 48 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 3: asks a different question. He doesn't ask where they are, 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: he asks when they are. So his third prize winning 50 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 3: essay is titled the Ghost in the Time Machine, And 51 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 3: in this episode, we're going to look at the evidence 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 3: that suggests that our loved ones aren't gone, they are 53 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: just living in a different time. And we're going to 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: look at the moments where they can break the rules 55 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: of time and come back to us. So today we're 56 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: going to hear some incredible stories of love crossing that 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 3: great divide. We're going to hear the famous stories of 58 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: the Pollock Twins, two little girls who died in the 59 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: tragedy who the belief is they've been reborn to the 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: same parents because they remembered their old toys and had 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: their old scars. We'll talk about crisis apparitions, those moments 62 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: when a loved one appears at the foot of the 63 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: bed to say goodbye at the exact moment they pass away, 64 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 3: proving that their first thought upon leaving the earth was you. 65 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: And we'll talk about the welcome committee, the visions of 66 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 3: deceased relatives who have come to hold our hands when 67 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: it is our turn to go. But first we have 68 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 3: to understand this idea of the time machine. Doctor Rugby 69 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: argues that the biggest mistake we make is thinking that 70 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: the past is dead and gone. When we think about 71 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five or twenty ten or last week, these 72 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: are deleted scenes from our minds. But modern physics and 73 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: doctor Rugby's research suggests that that isn't true. His essay 74 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 3: begins with the story we all Know a Christmas Carol 75 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: by Charles Dickens. Remember Ebenezer Scrooge, He visited the ghost 76 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: of Christmas past. The ghost takes his hand, the bedroom 77 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 3: wall dissolves, and suddenly they are standing in a snowy village. 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: From Scrooge's childlihood, Scrooge sees his old school, He sees 79 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 3: his childhood friends laughing. He sees himself as a young boy, now, 80 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 3: we usually call this a ghost story, but doctor Rugby 81 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: points out something interesting. This isn't a ghost story. This 82 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 3: is a time travel story. Scrooge traveled back in time, 83 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: and what did he find. He found that the past 84 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: was still there. The people were still alive, the laughter 85 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 3: was still ringing in the air. They weren't dead, They 86 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 3: were just happening at a different point on the timeline. 87 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugby suggests that the afterlife works exactly like this. 88 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: Let me explain. In his essay, he discusses a concept 89 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 3: in physics called the block universe. Einstein even believed in this. 90 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: It's the idea that the past, present, and future all 91 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 3: exist simultaneously. Like a loaf of bread. We are just 92 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 3: a slice moving through it. But just because you haven't 93 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: eaten the first slice of bread, it doesn't mean the 94 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: first slice never existed. It's still there at the beginning 95 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 3: of the loaf. This means that the moments you had 96 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: with your loved ones, the holidays, the hugs, the vacations, 97 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: the conversations, they aren't memories fading in your brain. They 98 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 3: are permanent fixtures in the universe. They still exist and 99 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: the people in them still exist. To prove that we 100 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 3: can actually visit the past. Doctor Rugby shares one of 101 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: the most famous and most well documented cases in history. 102 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: It's a story about a sunny afternoon in a garden. 103 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: It's known as the Moberly Jordain incident. The year was 104 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 3: nineteen oh one. It was August tenth. Two women, Charlotte 105 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 3: Moberly and Eleanor Jordaine, were visiting the Palace of Versailles 106 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: in France. Now who were these women. They weren't spiritualists. 107 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: They were serious, high level academics. Charlotte was the principal 108 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: of Saint Hugh's College at Oxford University. Eleanor was a 109 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: respected author. These were women of logic and skepticism. They 110 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: were walking through the beautiful gardens, heading toward a smaller 111 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 3: building called the Petite Triannon. It was a hot summer day. 112 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: There were other tourists around. Everything seemed normal until suddenly 113 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: the world shifted. Charlotte described a feeling of extraordinary depression 114 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: that suddenly came over her. Not sadness, really, but a heaviness, 115 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: a fog. It was as if the air had been 116 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: sucked out of the world. She noticed the wind stopped blowing, 117 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 3: the trees stood perfectly still, like they were painted on 118 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: a canvas. There were no chafeshadows. Even though the sun 119 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: was shining, the silence was deafening. They walked across a 120 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 3: bridge and saw two men. These men were wearing long 121 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: green coats and three cornered hats, the kind of hats 122 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: people wore in the seventeen hundreds. At first, the women thought, oh, 123 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: there must be a pageant going on. Maybe they are 124 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: gardeners in costume. But the men looked dark and unwelcoming. 125 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: Then a man ran up to them. He was wearing 126 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: a cloak and a slouch hat, and shouted at them 127 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 3: in French, telling them to go a different way. They 128 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: followed his instructions and walked on a grassy lawn, and there, 129 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: sitting on the grass was a woman. She was sketching 130 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: on a pad of paper. She was wearing a light 131 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: summer dress with a long, full skirt and a large 132 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: white hat perched on her hair. Charlotte looked at her, 133 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: the woman looked up at them, and the woman looked annoyed. 134 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: She looked at these two British women from nineteen one 135 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: as if they were intruders who didn't belong there. The 136 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: two women continued walking, and eventually they met another group 137 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 3: of tourists, and just like that, the spell broke, The 138 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 3: wind blew again, the shadows returned, the feeling of heaviness lifted. 139 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 3: They were back in nineteen oh one. They didn't talk 140 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: about it right away. It was very strange. But a 141 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 3: week later they compared notes. They wrote down exactly what 142 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: they saw independently. The green coats, the bridge, the woman sketching. 143 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: Being academics, they decided to investigate. They went back to Versailles, 144 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: and this is where the story gives goosebumps. When they 145 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 3: went back, the bridge they had walked across was gone. 146 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: It wasn't just gone, It hadn't existed for one hundred years. 147 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: The path the running man sent them down, it was 148 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: now blocked by an old stone wall. The uniforms, the 149 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: green coats and the triple cornered hats, those were the 150 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 3: exact uniforms of the Swiss guards who protected the palace 151 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: in seventeen eighty nine. And the woman sketching. They looked 152 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 3: at paintings of Marie Antoinette, the Queen of France. Charlotte 153 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: recognized her instantly. The dress, the hat, the face. It 154 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: was the queen that they saw. But here's one more detail. 155 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: They researched the date they visited on August tenth, nineteen 156 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 3: oh one. In French history, August tenth, seventeen ninety two 157 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: was the day the Palace was sacked and the Swiss 158 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: guards were massacred. It was the last day of the 159 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 3: Old World. Doctor Rugby argues that these women didn't see ghosts. 160 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 3: They didn't see spirits floating around. They walked into a 161 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: time slip for a few minutes. The curtain between nineteen 162 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: one and seventeen ninety two dissolved. They were physically in 163 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 3: nineteen oh one, but somehow their consciousness had tuned them 164 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: into the frequency of the past. So is this comforting? Well, 165 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: if Marie Antoinette is still sitting in that garden in 166 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: seventeen ninety two, it means she isn't dead. She is 167 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: just at a different coordinate in time. And if that 168 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: is true, then your husband, your wife, your parent, your child, 169 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: they aren't dead either. They are simply living in a 170 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 3: part of the block universe that your physical body can't 171 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 3: see right now. But they are safe in the eternal now. 172 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugbet suggests that our consciousness is a time machine. 173 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 3: Usually we only move forward, but sometimes through a glitch 174 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 3: in reality or through the power of love, we can 175 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: connect across that timeline. But doctor Ruckbeat doesn't just talk 176 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: about strangers in a garden. He moves on to something 177 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 3: much more personal. He asks, if we can accidentally stumble 178 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: into the past, can people in the past intentionally come 179 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: to visit us. He explores the phenomena called crisis apparitions. 180 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: This is when a person, usually a mother, a father, 181 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 3: or a spouse, appears to their loved one at the 182 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,239 Speaker 3: exact moment of their death, even if they are thousands 183 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 3: of miles away. These aren't glitches. These are purposeful visits. 184 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 3: It is the soul using the time machine to make 185 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: one final stop. I am leaving my body, but I 186 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: am not leaving you. And he says that perhaps the 187 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: most incredible evidence involves reincarnation. If the soul is outside 188 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: of time, can it come back when we come back 189 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: from the break. I'm going to share his story of 190 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: the Pollock Twins. It's been verified, it is documented, and 191 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: doctor Rugby says it is proof that death is not 192 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 3: the end. It is simply a revolving door. We'll be 193 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: right back you're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 194 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 195 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: The Coast to Coast AM mobile app is here and 196 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: waiting for you right now. With the app, you can 197 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 4: hear classic shows from the past seven years, listen to 198 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 4: the current live show, and get access to the artbel 199 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 4: Vault where you can listen to uninterrupted audio. So head 200 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 4: on over to the Coast to COASTAM dot com website. 201 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 4: We have a handy video guide to help you get 202 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 4: the most out. 203 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: Of your mobile app usage. 204 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 4: All the infos waiting for you now at Coast to 205 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 4: COASTAM dot com. That's Coast to coastam dot com. 206 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: The Artbelvault never disappoints classic audio at your fingertips. Go 207 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: now to Coast tocoastam dot com for full details. Hey, 208 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: this is George Nori and you're listening to the iHeartRadio 209 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: and COASTA Ghost Day and Paranorial podcast Network. 210 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 5: Thanks for being here. 211 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: Now let's get back to more with Sandra. 212 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 213 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 3: Today we're looking at doctor Leo Rugby's third prize winning 214 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 3: essay from the Bigelow Contest. We just explored the idea 215 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: that the afterlife is not a place but a time, 216 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: and that the past is still very much alive in 217 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 3: what he calls the block universe, and sometimes, like the 218 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: women in the Garden of Versailles, we can slip through 219 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: a crack and see it. But for those of us 220 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 3: who are grieving, time travel is a kind of strange concept. 221 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: We don't want to visit the French revel. We want 222 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 3: to know if the specific people that we love and 223 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: miss are safe and of course alive, and most importantly, 224 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: will we ever be with them again. Doctor Rugby's essay 225 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 3: offers a profound yes. He argues that if consciousness exists 226 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: outside of time, then it isn't limited to just one lifetime. 227 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: It can enter the stream of time, leave it, and 228 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: potentially enter it again. Now it seems to me that 229 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: usually half of our listeners are interested in the case 230 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: for reincarnation and the other think not so sure it exists. 231 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: But let's hear what doctor Rugby presents. This is the 232 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: story of the Pollock Twins. Their story begins in Tragedy 233 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: on the fifth of May and nineteen fifty seven, and 234 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: Hexham England. The Pollock family was destroyed. John and Florence 235 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: Pollack had two daughters, Joanna, who was eleven, and Jacqueline, 236 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: who was six. On that Sunday morning, the two girls 237 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 3: were walking to church with a friend. A car lost control, 238 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 3: climbed the pavement and struck them dead. All three children, unfortunately, 239 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 3: were killed instantly. I'm sure you can imagine the devastation 240 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: the father, John Pollock, was a devout Catholic, but he 241 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: also was a believer in reincarnation. He prayed desperately. He 242 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: told his wife, they will come back to us. I 243 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 3: just know they will come back. His wife, Florence, did 244 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: not believe him. She was grieving and the last thing 245 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: she wanted to hear about was second chances. Of course, 246 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 3: she just wanted her girls back. A year later, Florence 247 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 3: became pregnant. John insisted she was carrying twins. The doctor 248 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: said he was wrong because they could only hear one heartbeat, 249 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,479 Speaker 3: but John was certain. He said, I know it's them, 250 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: Joanna and Jacqueline coming back. So on the fourth of 251 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: October nineteen fifty eight, Florence gave birth, and sure enough, 252 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 3: it was to twin girls. They named them Jillian, and Jennifer. 253 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: So I'll let you decide if this is coincidence or evidence. 254 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 3: When the babies were born, John noticed something strange on 255 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 3: the younger twin, Jennifer. She had a white line scar 256 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: on her forehead, right at the hairline. It was the 257 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 3: exact same scar that her deceased sister Jacqueline, had gotten 258 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 3: from falling off a bike. Jennifer also had a birthmark 259 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 3: on her wrist. It was a dark smudge. It was 260 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 3: in the exact same spot and the exact same shape 261 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 3: as the birthmark Jacqueline had. Doctor Rugby points out that 262 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: birthmarks are biological right, but scars. Scars are acquired. You 263 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: aren't genetically programmed to have a scar from a bike accident, 264 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: and yet here it was. As the twins grew up, 265 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 3: the evidence became impossible to ignore. When they were barely toddlers, 266 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: the family moved away from Hexham, the twins had never 267 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: seen their dead sister's toys. The toys had been packed 268 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: away in a box in the attic long before they 269 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 3: were born. One day, John brought the box down. He 270 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 3: opened it up without missing a beat. The twins started 271 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: grabbing the toys. They didn't just play with them, they 272 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: named them. Jennifer grabbed a doll and said that's my Mary. 273 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 3: Jillian grabbed another and said that's my Suzanne. Those were 274 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: the exact names that the deceased sisters had given to 275 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: those specific dolls. Plus they knew which toys belonged to whom. 276 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: They started referencing events they couldn't possibly know. They would 277 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: talk about the school they used to go to, even 278 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 3: though these toddlers were not old enough to go to 279 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 3: school ooh yet. And when they visited Hexham, a town 280 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 3: the twins had never seen, the girls suddenly knew their 281 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 3: way around. They pointed to the playground where we used 282 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 3: to play on the swings. They pointed out the school 283 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 3: that they used to attend. But then came the evidence 284 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 3: from their trauma. Doctor Rugby notes that the twins had 285 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 3: an unexplainable hysterical fear of cars. If a car engine 286 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 3: idle too loudly in the street, the girls would scream 287 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 3: and cling onto each other, shouting, the car is coming 288 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 3: to get us. One day, their mother walked into the 289 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 3: room and found them playing a strange game. Jennifer was 290 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: lying on the floor with her head in Gillian's lap. 291 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: Gillian was stroking her hair and saying, the blood is 292 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 3: coming out of your eyes. That's where the car hit you. 293 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: It was a reenactment of the accident that killed the sisters. 294 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: So at the age of five, the age where scientists 295 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: say has life memories usually fade, the memories stopped. The 296 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 3: girls grew up to be normal teenagers with no memory 297 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: of their past lives. But doctor Rugby uses this case 298 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: to argue a profound point. The consciousness of Joanna and 299 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 3: Jacqueline didn't vanish into nothingness. It existed outside of time, 300 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 3: and because of the powerful bond of love with their parents, 301 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 3: it found a way to loop back. And it suggests 302 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: that our loved ones are not lost, They are just 303 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: in a different part of the cycle, and sometimes love 304 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: pulls them right back into our arms. But what about 305 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: the moment of leaving. If the Pollock twins prove we 306 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 3: can return, Doctor Rugby also shares evidence that our loved 307 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: ones try to reach us the moment they depart. He 308 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 3: calls this phenomena crisis apparitions. This is when a person 309 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 3: appears to a loved one at the person moment of 310 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 3: their death. It's usually to say goodbye. Doctor Rugby shares 311 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: the case of Lieutenant David McConnell. It was during the war. 312 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: McConnell was an eighteen year old pilot trainee. He was 313 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: stationed miles away from his barracks. On a specific afternoon, 314 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: he took off for a flight exam. Back at the barracks, 315 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 3: his roommate, Lieutenant Larkin, was sitting in his room reading 316 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: a book. Suddenly the door opened. McConnell walked in. He 317 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: was wearing his full flying gear. Larkin looked up and 318 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: said hello, back already McConnell looked at him, smiled and 319 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: said hello boy. Then he said cheerio and walked out 320 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 3: the door and closed it. Larkin thought nothing of it. 321 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: He assumed his friend had finished the flight. But a 322 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: few hours later the news arrived Lieutenant McConnell had crashed 323 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 3: his plane. He was killed instantly at the exact same 324 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 3: time to the minute that Larkin saw him walk into 325 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 3: the room. Doctor Rugby analyzes this through the lens of 326 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 3: the time machine. At the moment of his death, McConnell's 327 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: physical body was destroyed, but his consciousness his ghost, was 328 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: ejected from the timeline. In that moment of intense emotion, 329 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: his thought was of his friend. He projected himself instantly 330 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: across space. He looked solid, he spoke, he even opened 331 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: and closed a door. But he wasn't physical. He was 332 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 3: a projection of pure consciousness saying a final goodbye. This 333 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: is a huge comfort to any one of us when 334 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: our loved ones die. You know, we often carry so 335 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 3: much guilt. I wasn't there for them, I wasn't in 336 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: the room when they passed. I didn't get to say goodbye. 337 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 3: But the evidence suggests that they come to us. Distance 338 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 3: doesn't matter, the hospital walls don't matter. At the moment 339 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 3: of try transition, they are free, and the first act 340 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: is often to visit the people they love. And finally, 341 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugby offers comfort for the fear of dying itself. 342 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 3: Aren't we all afraid that at that final moment, it'll 343 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: be dark and we'll be alone. We have that fear 344 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 3: of the unknown. Doctor Rugby explores deathbed visions in his essay, 345 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 3: specifically the peak in Darienne cases. This is a poetic 346 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: term for a very specific type of vision when a 347 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: dying person sees someone that he or she did not 348 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: know was dead. If you see your grandma who died 349 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 3: ten years ago, skeptics say that's just wishful thinking. But 350 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 3: what if you see someone you think is alive. Doctor 351 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 3: Rugby cites the case of a dying woman in the 352 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: nineteenth century Let's call her Sarah. Sarah was dying of 353 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: heart failure. Her family was gathered around her. Now Tragically, 354 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: Sarah's sister Vita had died three weeks earlier, but because 355 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: Sarah was so sick, the family decided not to tell her. 356 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: They didn't want to upset her. As far as Sarah knew, 357 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: Vida was alive and well in another city. As Sarah 358 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 3: took her final breaths, her face suddenly lit up with 359 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 3: a beautiful, radiant smile. She looked past her family into 360 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 3: the corner of the room and said, oh, there is father. 361 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: Her father had been dead for years. But then her 362 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 3: expression changed to one of pure shock and joy, and 363 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 3: Vida is with him. And she turned to her family, 364 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 3: confused and said, you told me Vida was alive, but 365 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 3: she's here, And then Sarah passed away. Doctor Rugby argues 366 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 3: that this destroys the hallucination theory. If Sarah's brain was 367 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 3: creating a comforting hallucination, she would have hallucinated a living 368 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 3: Vita coming to visit her bedside, or she wouldn't have 369 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 3: seen her at all. Her brain expected Vita to be alive, 370 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 3: but her soul saw the truth. This proves that we 371 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: all have a welcoming committee. When we step out of 372 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: the physical body, we are not stepping into the dark. 373 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: We are stepping into a reunion. We are stepping into 374 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: a place where everyone we lost is still there, standing there, 375 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 3: waiting to guide us home. So we have the Pollock 376 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: twins returning to their parents, We have the pilot saying 377 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 3: cheerio to his friend, and we have the sister waiting 378 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 3: to welcome or dying sibling. All these stories tell us 379 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 3: one thing, the bond of love is stronger than time. 380 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 3: But doctor Rugby's essay doesn't stop at emotional comfort. He 381 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: tackles the ghost in the machine of our daily lives. 382 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 3: He asks a rather spooky question. If spirits can communicate 383 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: with us, can they also communicate with our technology? Can 384 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: they appear on tape? Can they speak through radios? When 385 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 3: we come back? Going to look at the history of 386 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 3: electronic voice phenomena through doctor Rugby's essay and the Charmed Circle, 387 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 3: where physical evidence of the afterlife appeared right in front 388 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 3: of scientists. We'll be right back. You're listening to Shades 389 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 390 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 3: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 391 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: My name is Mark Rawlins, president of Paranormal Day dot Com. 392 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: Over five years ago, George Nori approached me with a 393 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: unique concept, a dating site for people searching for someone 394 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: with interest in UFOs, ghosts, Bigfoot, conspiracy theories, and the paranormal. 395 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: From that, Paranormal Day dot Com was born. It's a 396 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: unique site for unique people and it's free to join 397 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: to look around. If you want to upgrade and enjoy 398 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: more of our great features, use promo code George for 399 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: a great discount, So check it out. 400 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 6: You got to lose Paranormal Day dot com. 401 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children 402 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 3: to a world of information, experiences, and ideas. It can 403 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 3: also expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic 404 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 3: safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything. 405 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 3: Do everything for them. 406 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 5: Hey, it's the Wizard of Weird Joshua P. Warren. Don't 407 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 5: forget to check out my show Strange Things. Each week 408 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 5: as I bring you the world of the truly amazing 409 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 5: and bizarre right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 410 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 411 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 412 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 3: I know this is a different kind of episode discussing 413 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: the third prize winning essay of Bigelow Contest winner doctor 414 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: Leo Rugby. But for me, it's a rainy day outside 415 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 3: and it's interesting. So far, we have looked at the 416 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 3: idea that the afterlife is a time a destination in 417 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 3: the block universe. But if we look at this from 418 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: the mind of a skeptic, as we must always do, 419 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: they might say, yeah, Sandra, but all these stories are 420 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: about perceptions, their visions, their memories. But you can't touch 421 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 3: a ghost. And if they are real, why don't they 422 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 3: leave physical footprints. Well, doctor Rugby, who is actually an 423 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 3: expert on magic and deception, tackles this head on. He 424 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 3: argues that if a post is actually a consciousness slipping 425 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: into our timeline, it should theoretically be able to interact 426 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: with our physical world, and he presents evidence for what 427 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: he calls the charmed circle. This refers to a series 428 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: of experiments done in the early twentieth century by Nobel 429 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: prize winning scientists and doctors who wanted to test physical mediumship. 430 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 3: They weren't interested in messages of love. They wanted to 431 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 3: see ectoplasm. They wanted to see matter materialize. Doctor Rugby 432 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: highlights the famous experiments done at the Institute Metaphysique International 433 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: in Paris, involving a medium named Frank Klusky. The scientists 434 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: there devised an experiment that was designed to be fraud proof. 435 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: They wanted to catch a spirit hand in a way 436 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: that could not be faked by a human in hand. 437 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 3: So they placed bowls of hot, melted paraffin wax on 438 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: a table. They asked the medium to summon a spirit 439 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 3: entity to dip its hand in the hot wax, let 440 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 3: it cool into a glove, and then this is the 441 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: important part, de materialize their hand out of the wax 442 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: glove without breaking it. Imagine the physics of this. If 443 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 3: you or I dip our hand into wax, let it harden, 444 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: we're trapped right To get our hand out, we would 445 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: have to wiggle it, which would crack the wax, or 446 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 3: we would have to cut the wax. You cannot pull 447 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: a human hand out of a tight wax glove because 448 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 3: the wrist is more narrow than our knuckles, so it's 449 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 3: physically impossible. But in these experiments, under strict laboratory conditions, 450 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 3: this is exactly what happened. The medium, Frank Klusky, would 451 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: go into a trance, the scientists would hold his hands 452 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: to ensure he was not moving, and later, floating in 453 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: the water, they would find perfect hollow wax gloves. They 454 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: analyzed them. The gloves were seamless, there were no cuts, 455 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 3: there were no cracks, but the detail was what shocked them. 456 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: The wax had captured microscopic skin ridges, fingerprints, and lines. 457 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: Now imagine this. This is on the inside of the 458 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 3: wax gloves. When they brought these gloves in for forensic 459 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 3: experts to look at them, they found that the fingerprints 460 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 3: on the wax gloves did not match the fingerprints of 461 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: the medium, and they did not match anyone in the room. 462 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 3: They were fingerprints of a stranger, someone who had materialized, 463 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 3: dipped their spirit hand into wax, and then dissolved back 464 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 3: into the ether. Doctor Rugby points out that they even 465 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 3: tried to get professional magicians to duplicate this. The magicians failed. 466 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: The only way to create a seamless wax glove with 467 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 3: a narrow wrist is if the hand inside it simply 468 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 3: ceases to be solid. This is what doctor Rugby calls 469 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 3: the ghost in the machine. It is physical proof that 470 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 3: a consciousness from another time or dimension can enter our space, 471 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 3: becomes solid enough to dip their hand in wax and 472 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: then vanish again. But if they can touch wax, can 473 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: they touch technology? Doctor Rugby dedicates a fascinating section of 474 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 3: his essay to EVP Electronic voice Phenomena. He tells the 475 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 3: story of Friedrich Jurgensen. Jurgensen wasn't a ghost hunter. He 476 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 3: was a Swedish painter and a film producer. In nineteen 477 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 3: fifty nine, he was out in the countryside trying to 478 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 3: record bird songs for a documentary. He had a real 479 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 3: to real tape recorder. He set it up in a 480 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 3: quiet forest, recorded the birds, and then went home. When 481 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 3: he played the tape back, he heard the birds, but 482 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 3: then underneath the birds he heard a human voice. It 483 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: was faint, but it was clear. It was a woman's voice, 484 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 3: and she said something that froze his blood. She said, Friedel, 485 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: can you hear me? It's mommy. Friedel was the childhood 486 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 3: nickname only his mother used for him and his mother 487 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 3: had been dead for years. Jurgensen spent the rest of 488 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 3: his life recording these voices. He invited scientists to check 489 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 3: his equipment. They found no stray radio signals. They found 490 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 3: no trickery. Doctor Rugby argues that this is the modern 491 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 3: version of the wax glove. Instead of manipulating wax, the 492 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: time travelers are manipulating electrons. They are imprinting their voice 493 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 3: onto the magnetic tape. Today it might be your cell 494 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: phone or your computer. Rouckbeat saves his most impressive piece 495 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 3: of evidence for the category he calls intellectual proof. Sometimes 496 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 3: the best proof isn't a physical object, it's information. It's 497 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 3: knowledge that comes through that is so specific, so complex, 498 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 3: and so impossible for the living person to know that 499 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 3: it must come from somewhere else. Doctor Ruckbeat discusses the 500 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 3: phenomena called xenoglossy. This is when a person suddenly gains 501 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 3: the ability to speak a language they have never learned. 502 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: He cites the incredible case of utah udar Uta was 503 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 3: a woman living near Nagpur, India. She spoke her native language, 504 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 3: Marathi and some English. She did not know Bengali. In fact, 505 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 3: she had practically had no exposure to the Bengali culture. Suddenly, 506 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 3: seemingly out of nowhere, her personality shifted. She began calling 507 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 3: herself Sharata. When Sharata took over used to speak Marafi. 508 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 3: She spoke only fluid, rapid fire Bengali, but it wasn't 509 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: modern Bengali. Experts analyzed her speech and realized she was 510 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 3: speaking a dialect from the early eighteen hundreds, and she 511 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 3: didn't just know the words. She knew their culture. She 512 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 3: asked for foods that hadn't been cooked in India for 513 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 3: one hundred years. She didn't recognize modern technology like trains 514 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 3: or cars. She gave details about her family in the 515 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 3: eighteen thirties, their names, locations, and events. Researchers investigated. They 516 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: traveled to the village she named, They found the genealogy records, 517 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 3: and they found her. There really was a woman named 518 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 3: Shirata who lived in that village in the early nineteenth century. 519 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugby argues that this fits with his time travel theory. 520 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: Utara wasn't just hallucinating. Her consciousness had somehow entangled with 521 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 3: the consciousness of Sharrata from the eighteen thirties, or perhaps 522 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 3: Sharrata had time traveled to inhabit Utara. Either way, you 523 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 3: cannot hallucinate a language you don't know. That information has 524 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 3: to come from somewhere. So this brings us to another 525 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 3: famous case, the case of intellectual proof. In doctor Rugby's 526 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 3: essay called Patience Worth. This story takes place in Saint 527 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 3: Louis in nineteen thirteen. It involves a woman named Pearl Current. 528 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 3: Pearl was an ordinary housewife. She left school at the 529 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 3: age of fourteen, and she had never traveled. She had 530 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 3: very little interest in literature or history. One evening, she 531 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 3: was playing with the Ouiji board with her friend, just 532 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 3: for fun, of course, and suddenly the planchet began to 533 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 3: move with incredible speed. It spelled out a message many 534 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 3: moons ago, I lived again. I come. Patience Worth is 535 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 3: my name. Over the next twenty four years, Pearl Current 536 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 3: produced through Luigi Board and later through direct dictation, a 537 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 3: staggering amount of literature. She wrote novels, plays, and thousands 538 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 3: of poems. But it wasn't just the quantity she produced, 539 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 3: it was the quality. The writing was brilliant. It received 540 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 3: critical acclaim from the New York Times. It was considered 541 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 3: some of the best literature of the era, but Here's 542 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 3: the impossible part that doctor Rugby focuses on. The vocabulary. 543 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 3: Patience Worth claimed to be from the seventeenth century, and 544 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 3: the novels she wrote were written in a specific archaic 545 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 3: dialect of seventeenth century English. Scholars analyzed the texts, the 546 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 3: writing contained thousands of words that had fallen out of 547 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,439 Speaker 3: usage hundreds of years ago. It contained words that per 548 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 3: current with only her eighth grade education could not have 549 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 3: possibly known. For example, in one poem, Patient's Worth used 550 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,919 Speaker 3: the word amulet as a verb meaning to give luck. 551 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 3: The scholars check the Oxford English Dictionary. Sure enough, in 552 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 3: the sixteen hundreds, amulet was used as a verb, but 553 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 3: that usage had been dead for centuries. And there was 554 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 3: one more detail that doctor Rugby highlights to prove this 555 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 3: was not Pearl's subconscious. Pearl could perform feats of divided attention, 556 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 3: so she could sit there and write a novel from 557 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 3: Patience Worth with one hand and simultaneously be carrying on 558 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 3: a conversation with a room full of people about a 559 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 3: completely different topic. If this were just Pearl's creativity, she 560 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 3: would need to focus, but she didn't. She acted like 561 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 3: a radio receiver. The signal from Patience Worth was coming 562 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 3: through her regardless of what Pearl was doing. Doctor Rugby 563 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 3: argues in his essay that this is the ultimate ghost 564 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 3: in the machine. Pearl Current became a time machine, her 565 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 3: consciousness tuned into the specific frequency of a woman from 566 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 3: the sixteen hundreds in patients Worth poured her intellect, her vocabulary, 567 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 3: and even her personality through Pearl. So we have the 568 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 3: wax gloves proving that spirits can interact with matter. We 569 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 3: have EVP proving they can imprint on electricity, we have 570 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 3: Sherata proving that they can bring back lost languages, and 571 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 3: we have Patience Worth proving they can bring back lost literature. 572 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 3: It paints a picture we are not alone in this 573 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 3: block universe. Doctor Rugby says, we are surrounded by layers 574 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 3: and layers of consciousness, all existing at once, all trying 575 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 3: to communicate. But if this is true, and the past 576 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 3: is alive and the dead are speaking to us, and 577 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 3: time is an illusion, what does this mean for you 578 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 3: and me? When we come back from the break, we're 579 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 3: going to talk about what it means to be a 580 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 3: time traveler. We'll discuss the comfort of the eternal now 581 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 3: and Doctor Rugby's final beautiful argument for why love is 582 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 3: the force that powers the machine. We'll be right back. 583 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 3: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeart 584 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 3: Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 585 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 6: Stay there, Sandra will be right back. 586 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 3: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to cost Am 587 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 3: Paranormal Podcast Network with the best shows that explore the paranormal, supernatural, 588 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 3: and the unexplained. You can enjoy all shows on the 589 00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite 590 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 3: podcasts the best afterlife information you can get. Well, you're 591 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 3: all long Shades of the Afterlife with Sander Champlain. Welcome 592 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 3: back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sander Champlain. If 593 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 3: you've been a longtime listener of the show, you know 594 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 3: these concepts we spoke about today, We've spoke about quite 595 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 3: often in the past five years. Don't forget to join 596 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 3: my mailing list at We Don't Die dot com and 597 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 3: I've got a list of episodes there for you on 598 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 3: these different topics. Back to Doctor Leo Rugby and his 599 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 3: Ghost in the Machine essay. You've heard these incredible stories 600 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 3: and you may be left with the question So what 601 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 3: if it is true that the afterlife is a time. 602 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 3: If it's true that we live in a block universe 603 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 3: where the past, present, and future are all existing at once, 604 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 3: how does that help us in our lives when we 605 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 3: are exploding with grief, crying at the kitchen table. How 606 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,280 Speaker 3: does it help us when we look at the empty 607 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 3: chair at the dinner table. Doctor Rugby dedicates the conclusion 608 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 3: of his essay to shifting our perspective. He argues that 609 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 3: the pain of grief comes from a three dimensional misunderstanding 610 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 3: of the universe. We humans are used to thinking in 611 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 3: three D. In three D, things are either here or there. 612 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 3: If I move a cup from the table to the 613 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 3: kitchen sink, it has gone from the table. It can't 614 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 3: be in two places at once. We apply this limited 615 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 3: logic to people. We think Mom was here and now 616 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,240 Speaker 3: she's gone. We think of life as a straight line, 617 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 3: a train track that runs from birth to death, and 618 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 3: when the train goes off the cliff, the journey is over. 619 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 3: But doctor Rugby asks to upgrade our thinking. He wants 620 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 3: us to start thinking like four dimensional beings. To understand this, 621 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 3: let's think of a movie reel. Imagine you are in 622 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 3: a movie theater. Watching a film. You're watching a scene 623 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 3: where the main character is getting married. It's happy. Then 624 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 3: the movie moves on. Ten minutes later, there's a funeral scene. 625 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 3: Now while you are watching the funeral, does the wedding 626 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 3: scene cease to exist? Did the film burn up? No, 627 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 3: the wedding scene is still there, wound up on the reel. 628 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 3: It is perfectly preserved. It is just as real as 629 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 3: the funeral scene. The only difference is the light of 630 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 3: the projector isn't shining on it right now. Doctor Rugby 631 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 3: argues that the universe is the real and your consciousness 632 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 3: is the projector. Just because the light of your focus 633 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,879 Speaker 3: has moved to the twenty twenty six section of the real, 634 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 3: it doesn't mean the nineteen ninety nine section was destroyed. 635 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,439 Speaker 3: The people in that section, your parents when they were young, 636 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 3: your children when they were babies, the friends you lost, 637 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 3: they are all still here. They're still laughing, and they're 638 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 3: still alive. Doctor Rugby writes that death is not an exit, 639 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,320 Speaker 3: it is a shift in coordinate. This is a massive 640 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 3: shift for our mindset. It means that your loved ones 641 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 3: haven't ceased to exist. They have simply become invisible. To 642 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 3: your current moment. They are safe in the earlier chapters 643 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 3: of the book or on the film reel. Here is 644 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 3: the empowering part. You don't have to wait until you 645 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 3: die to rewind the film. Doctor Rugby argues that we 646 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 3: all have a built in time machine that allows us 647 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 3: to connect with those chapters right now, and that machine 648 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 3: is powered by one specific fur love. In his essay, 649 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 3: he calls this time tanglement. It's a play on the 650 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 3: quantum physics term entanglement. In physics, when two particles are entangled, 651 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 3: they remain connected forever, no matter how far apart they are. 652 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 3: If you spin one, the other spins instantly, even if 653 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 3: it's on the other side of the galaxy. Distance implies 654 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,240 Speaker 3: nothing to them. Doctor Rugby argues that love is simply 655 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 3: the biological experience of quantum entanglement. When you love someone deeply, 656 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 3: your consciousness becomes entangled with theirs. You become part of 657 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 3: the same system. That is why crisis apparitions happen. That 658 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 3: is why the mother felt the sphere of light when 659 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 3: her son died. That is why the husband saw his 660 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 3: wife's ghost. The entanglement doesn't break just because the physical 661 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 3: body stops working. The wire is still alive. So how 662 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 3: can we use this? Based on doctor Rugby's essay and 663 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 3: the wisdom we've shared today, here are three instructions for 664 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 3: living as a time traveler. Instruction number one, change your coordinates. 665 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 3: When you are missing someone, stop looking up. We have 666 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 3: been trained to look at the sky and imagine they 667 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 3: are in a far away heaven beyond the clouds. But 668 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 3: doctor Rugby suggests they aren't up. They are. Then, instead 669 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 3: of looking up, look back, but don't look back with sadness. 670 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 3: Look back with presence. Use your memory not as a 671 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 3: dusty photo album, but as a portal. Close your eyes 672 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 3: and travel back to a moment when you were together. 673 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 3: See the room, smell the coffee, hear their laugh. According 674 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 3: to the block universe theory, you aren't just imagining that moment. 675 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 3: You are tuning your consciousness to a coordinate where that 676 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 3: moment is still happening. You are visiting them in the 677 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,919 Speaker 3: eternal now. Doctor Rugby suggests that because of entanglement, when 678 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 3: you focus on them with love, you are lighting up 679 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 3: that connection. You are ringing the bell. You are literally 680 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 3: spending time with them. Instruction number two, trust the glitches. 681 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugby's essay is full of glitches, time slips, evp voices, 682 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 3: sudden visions. He argues that the veil between now and 683 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 3: then is much thinner than we think. So when you 684 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,840 Speaker 3: see a sign, trust it. If you smell their perfume 685 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 3: when no one is there, don't disregard it as a 686 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 3: memory or an illusion. It's a time slip. If you 687 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 3: hear their voice in your head giving you advice, don't 688 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 3: dismiss it as your imagination. It's a transmission. If you 689 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 3: have a dream where they feel incredibly real, believe it. 690 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 3: You have met in the dimension where you are both free. 691 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 3: We often block these communications because our rational three D 692 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 3: brains say that's impossible. But remember the women at Versailles. 693 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 3: The rational brains told them it was impossible. But the 694 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 3: bridge and the Queen we're right there in front of them. 695 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 3: The universe is stranger and much more beautiful than our 696 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 3: logic allows, and Instruction number three live fearlessly. This is 697 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 3: an important one. If doctor Rugby is right, if we 698 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 3: truly are ghosts in a time machine, then there is 699 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,439 Speaker 3: no such thing as the end. We spend so much 700 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,720 Speaker 3: of our lives terrified about the finish line. We worry 701 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 3: about running out of time. We worry about aging, we 702 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 3: worry about being forgotten. But in a four D universe, 703 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,320 Speaker 3: nothing is ever forgotten, because nothing is ever lost. Every 704 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 3: smile you give, every act of kindness, every moment of 705 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,280 Speaker 3: love is recorded forever in the fabric of space time. 706 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 3: It's indestructible. This means you can stop racing against the clock. 707 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 3: You can slow down, you can savor the moment you 708 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 3: are in right now, because this moment is your contribution 709 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 3: to eternity. And when it comes time for your own transition, 710 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 3: you don't need to be afraid. Remember the story of 711 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,720 Speaker 3: Vita and Sarah. Remember the Welcoming Committee. When you step 712 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 3: out of your physical body, you aren't stepping into the void. 713 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 3: You are simply stepping out of the time machine and 714 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 3: returning to the larger reality. And who is waiting for you. Everyone? 715 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 3: Your parents, your grandparents, the friends you've lost, the pets 716 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 3: you've loved. They're all there, standing on the platform, waiting 717 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 3: for your train to arrive. Doctor Rugby finishes his essay 718 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 3: by challenging the old idea of the ghost in the machine. 719 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 3: The philosopher Gilbert Ryle coin that term to make fun 720 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,640 Speaker 3: of the soul. He thought the idea of a spirit 721 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 3: driving a body was ridiculous. He thought we were just 722 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 3: biological robots or toasters that made toast until we broke. 723 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,839 Speaker 3: But doctor Rugby says, we realize that it is the 724 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 3: physical body that creates time. For the mind, the ghost 725 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 3: is not just in a machine, but in a time machine. 726 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 3: My friend, you are the driver. Your body is the vehicle. 727 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 3: Time is the road, and love is the fuel. The 728 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,439 Speaker 3: vehicle will eventually break down, the road will eventually end, 729 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 3: but the driver is eternal. One last thought as we 730 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 3: go our separate ways today. I know that talking about 731 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 3: time travel and four dimensions can feel a little weird 732 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 3: and not our typical episode, especially when we're missing somebody 733 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 3: we love. It might be interesting to hear about physics, 734 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,840 Speaker 3: but then you're thinking, I just want to have my 735 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 3: mom back, or my dad back, or my child back. 736 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:12,319 Speaker 3: Doctor Rugby's theory offers us something that is comforting. If 737 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 3: he is right that the past is real and our 738 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 3: consciousness exists outside of time, then it means the moments 739 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,279 Speaker 3: that you shared with your loved ones aren't gone. They 740 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,240 Speaker 3: didn't dissolve into nothingness just because the clock ticked forward. 741 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 3: Think about a favorite book you might have read. Just 742 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 3: because you have turned to chapter ten, it doesn't mean 743 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 3: that chapter three no longer exists. Chapter three is still there, fixed, permanent, 744 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 3: and beautiful. The characters in chapter three are still alive, 745 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,800 Speaker 3: still laughing, and still loving right there in the book. 746 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 3: Your life is that book. Your loved ones are not erased. 747 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 3: I promise you that they are safe in the eternal 748 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,920 Speaker 3: now and now. As Doctor Rugby suggests, since this spirit 749 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 3: is a time traveler, they aren't just stuck back in 750 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 3: chapter three. They can skip forward to read over your 751 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,080 Speaker 3: shoulder right now in chapter ten. So as you go 752 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,280 Speaker 3: through your week, try to remember you aren't losing time. 753 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,280 Speaker 3: You are collecting it, and one day you will step 754 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,200 Speaker 3: out of the timeline and see that a whole beautiful 755 00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,240 Speaker 3: story all at once. I hope our trilogy of Proof 756 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 3: from the Bigelow Institute has given you a foundation to 757 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,839 Speaker 3: stand on. Of course, you can revisit some of our 758 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 3: past episodes like first Prize winner Doctor Jeffrey mischlv and 759 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,799 Speaker 3: episode two hundred and forty four and Doctor Pym Van 760 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 3: lommel And Episode two hundred and seventy three, And I 761 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,839 Speaker 3: encourage you to read some of these essays. Yourself. There's 762 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:47,320 Speaker 3: so many more. Just go to Bigelowinstitute dot org and remember, 763 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,480 Speaker 3: come visit me at weedotdie dot com. Come join me 764 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:58,960 Speaker 3: on our free Sunday gathering inspirational service with medium demonstration included. Also, 765 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 3: if you're interested in EVP and capturing those images from 766 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 3: the other side, at the bottom of the main page 767 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 3: you'll see our film about researcher Sonia Andaldi, and also 768 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:16,879 Speaker 3: our new film called Evidence of the Afterlife, saving Evidential Mediumship. 769 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400 Speaker 3: I'm Sander Champlain and from the bottom of my heart, 770 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,239 Speaker 3: thank you for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 771 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Hearinormal podcast Network. 772 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 773 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal podcast Network. Make sure and check out 774 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,919 Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 775 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com.